CNN's credibility crisis on the Trump Tower story

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," August 28, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Hi, I'm Greg Gutfeld with Tammy Bruce, Juan Williams, Brian Kilmeade, and she snowboards on a soap dish, Dana Perino, "The Five."

Last month CNN announced a bombshell: that Michael Cohen said President Trump knew about that meeting between his son and a Russian claiming to have dirt on Hillary. Something as rare as air. It was one of a thousand final nails in the coffin of Trump's presidency.

But then, Lanny Davis -- Hillary's creepy fixer who's now defending Trump's creepy fixer (figure that out) -- says his creepy client didn't have such info, which is odd since now it's revealed that creepy Davis was the anonymous creepy source who supplied creepy CNN with that creepy info that the network then milked to death while lecturing us on ethics.

So CNN is in a creepy pickle. There source for their biggest story of the year is giving us the creeps.

So you're following this? Wish I wasn't. I need to run my soul through a car wash after all this. Unlike the rest of the media who eat this stuff up no matter the sourcing. They're like a drunk frat boy at 3 a.m. They'll eat a Pop-Tart off the floor as long as there's ketchup.

So when Avenatti comes knocking, CNN shrieks like Bieber fans with backstage passes. And why? Only because it perpetuates a story that the media can't stop feeding on.

Two years ago, they were gorging on electing Trump. Now they gorge on impeaching him. Avenatti, Cohen and Davis? Three square meals the media devours daily.

But gluttony is a sin. No wonder they all seem so dumb and slow. And what's called reporting now is just rumor, spoon-fed from creeps seeking money, power or fame.

I wish I could ignore them all, but what is it that that guy keeps saying?


CHRIS CUOMO, HOST: Long week? Relax with a glass and let's get after it.

Lots to figure out. What do you say? Let's get after it.

It's going to take us two hours to do it. So what do you say? Let's get after it.


GUTFELD: Let's get after it. I've got something better. How about let's get accurate?

This is an amazing, blockbuster story, Kilmeade. I want you to try to get your head around it. I know it might be tough for you because you're working all the time. But this is CNN's source contradicting what they said to CNN, so somebody is lying. Do you think this will be on Michael Stelter's reliable sources?

BRIAN KILMEADE, GUEST HOST: I say they rather have a test pattern to put this on his reliable sources. Lanny Davis is also a crisis expert. That's where he wrote a book on.


KILMEADE: So here his crisis. How do I solve the crisis? Take responsibility for it. I'll take the heat and I can handle it. He also said the reporting got mixed up through the cross of the criminal investigation. No, that didn't work. I made a mistake. I did not mean to be cute. Never was. Says he didn't lie to CNN. He unintentionally misspoke. Said he, his instinct -- his instinct --this is what he said about what Cohen knows. His instinct was that his client might have something to say about Mueller, about hacking, but he shouldn't have said anything. That is your lawyer. This is nothing to do with Cohen. It's all about Hillary Clinton and Lanny Davis. Cohen doesn't come up.

So the question is, is he worried that Michael Cohen put his hand on the bible and swore that he was telling the truth and said he had nothing to do with this -- that Trump knew nothing about this Trump Tower situation. And when he came out and says now he knows, then Cohen suddenly looks as though he created -- he committed perjury, so then he had to backtrack? Or did he just make it up and Michael Cohen said you're doing a really bad job. I know I'm not paying you, but you can't make things up. There's more to this story.

GUTFELD: Well, you know -- OK, Dana, I want to stick to the CNN thing because why not? It's fun. That was a natulite 26 story. CNN said Lanny Davis didn't make any comment on that. So, this is from Glenn Greenwald. I'm actually quoting a Glenn Greenwald article. But, no.


GUTFELD: . but he's right. CNN says Lanny Davis refused to comment, so either CNN lied to its audience about Davis, or Davis is lying now.

PERINO: Or they were -- or they're protecting -- they were trying to protect him at the time.


PERINO: . to protect their source and say it wasn't that why people do disagree with using background sources. But in a case -- a situation like this, then you're dealing with people's lives, including the president in terms of their future judicial or legal problems, then people do leak and they do speak on background. The other thing that's happening here is you have both camps trying to advance their story with the media on background trying to be cute. Then they go on the record.


PERINO: . on cable news and they get a little bit crossed wide. But I believe CNN says they're sticking with the story.

GUTFELD: Yes, they are.

PERINO: Because maybe they have another source that told them that the story is true.

GUTFELD: And who could that source be? Is there another lawyer that we're missing out on?

PERINO: Probably

GUTFELD: Yes, some other guy. Tammy, if this were -- this would be -- if this were on the other side, this would be yet another smoking gun.


GUTFELD: But the media doesn't see this as anything special.

BRUCE: No, and they're going to make it go away. But, of course, this is why when the president says fake news, everybody goes nuts. This is exactly what he's talking about, the use of an individual. And this is almost -- on the theory like too good to check, right? That they get what they need from their source to move several days with a huge story at the time -- it was another nail in the thousand nails, as you've noted. And then they get that mileage and they figure that that's all that they need and that they gin this up in this way, and then it just goes away. It floats away. But the viewers know it. CNN is now losing their programs to things like Ancient Aliens. So, obviously, Ancient Aliens doing things that CNN won't do and can't do. So this is what the president complains about. It's what you see the crowds at the rallies, you know, yelling at CNN about. It hurts not just Cohen and this entire process legally but how media is viewed again. It's another nail in a coffin, but it's not President Trump. It's a legacy media and what they're willing to do.

GUTFELD: Juan, I'm just severely disappointed in the whole legal world right now. Aren't you saddened?

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Of the legal world?

GUTFELD: Yes. These lawyers are just terrible, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Giuliani, yeah, I would agree.


WILLIAMS: I'm way, way, way, in disagreement with all of you on this one because it seems to me like you're in the weeds and you're just playing out this tired theme of, oh, the right wing hates the elite mainstream media. This is not a big story in terms of CNN says they're standing by their story. They say they have corroboration for the story. They've had every opportunity to say, hey, we made a mistake. In addition to which, remember, CNN fired reporters when reporters got an earlier story about Trump wrong. So I would think that people on the right would say, huh, CNN is not firing anybody in this case. They're not backing off. And the one who is saying that he did something wrong is Lanny Davis. Lanny Davis is a stand-up guy here and saying, hey.

KILMEADE: Stand-up guy? He made stuff up about.


BRUCE: And then he lied about it.

WILLIAMS: He said he was speculating, Brian. And he has acknowledged that he was wrong.

KILMEADE: You don't buy that, right?


KILMEADE: You don't buy that he was speculating?

WILLIAMS: That's what he said.


WILLIAMS: I'm just saying if you want to know the important story here, the important story was when Cohen stood up in court and implicated the president in an illegal payoff of a porn star.

BRUCE: But when everyone involved is lying at some point. Look, if you see a crowd of people who are lying at some point about a variety of issues, and then you got a guy who's been threatened with life in prison but pledging that he knows something, no wonder people don't take it seriously.

WILLIAMS: He was in court. He had -- he put his -- I mean, he could be in jail.

BRUCE: Don't liberals all the time argue that people will say -- and they'll confess to things they've never done before simply because of the pressure by law enforcement?

PERINO: Can I just make one point though, several times and I think Maggie Haberman reporting the New York Times, at least twice, stories broken, legal camp on the president side had said not true. Or the president even -- fake news or spokesmen said not true. Then five or six months later you turn -- oh, it actually is true. So I think that the media is being played a little bit but both sides on the legal side of things. It's difficult to try these cases on the court of public.

GUTFELD: But, you know what? The thing is there's one side that definitely wants their story to be true, so they're willing to pay -- play more fast and loose. Can we talk about Bruce Ohr? Is that not a story, the former DOJ guy who's testifying in a closed door hearing over his relations with Christopher Steele, the spy who tried to bring Trump down with that dossier. This -- in my opinion, this is a pretty, damn, big story. He's pushing the dossier created by Fusion GPS, where his wife works, and then he says he feared of being exposed by this when Comey got fired. This is -- I mean, we make fun of the phrase deep state, but this ain't shallow state.

PERINO: Which is why he's testifying behind closed doors.


KILMEADE: Right. Which I think both sides want now because they feel as though not enough gets done when they're out in public, although I think Peter Strzok exposing his demeanor, his smugness goes a long way understanding what goes on -- what was really going on behind closed doors. This is what Catherine Herridge has told us so far. She did a great job standing outside. So, Bruce Ohr, according to Darrell Issa, his memory is in-perfect, but he does say he's never had a case like this in 20 years. He goes on to say when they're caught lying, Simpson said, the first time, Glenn Simpson who owns Fusion GPS, where Bruce Ohr's wife works, said the first time that I was dealing with Bruce Ohr was at thanksgiving. The problem is there's email exchanges that shows they'd been communicating since August. Lisa Page, Bruce Ohr, and Glenn Simpson all contradict each other. And there's no way that that should be allowed if you're trying to do an investigation. And if the FBI or Department of Justice was doing this investigation, they would not be tolerating this. So they've got to get all three out there in front of us and tried to contradict each other.

BRUCE: And you know what we're seeing here is the weaponising, as we've discussed, of the federal law enforcement framework against a presidential election and a presidential nominee, a candidate, which is what they wanted, which was an insurance policy to keep something from happening. So when you look at that -- and this is another -- it's a blessing for conservatives everywhere. Particular communities in this country talk about law enforcement, framing people, making up evidence, targeting individuals to get them -- deciding that the ends justifies the means, and a lot of people who don't go through that experience say, oh, that could never really happen. We're now seeing it happen at a federal level. So it's an education for all of us. Not just at that level but at the local level as well when it comes to what law enforcement is willing to do. And the cleanup that has to happen around the country for all of us just when it comes to who we trust and whether or not we're going to really take it seriously.

WILLIAMS: So, in other words -- so you're just happy defaming the FBI, the Justice Department, anybody that's questioning President Trump. This is the story again. So here we are. Oh, this means that there's nothing, nothing that the president has done wrong. President Trump is a victim. This is madness. I mean, you have to ignore the facts on the ground.

GUTFELD: We're just reporting the story about this guy.

WILLIAMS: Hang on. You have to ignore the fact that Bruce Ohr is an expert on Russia. You have to ignore the fact that therefore people like Christopher Steele would be going to Bruce Ohr and saying, hey, guess what, Sally Yates just got tossed.

(CROSSTALK) BRUCE: Juan, you should be upset too, because all these corruptions and all of these back-and-forth.

WILLIAMS: What corruption?

BRUCE: And Bruce Ohr saying we're going to get caught, that obscures any legitimate investigation that people may be would have wanted.

WILLIAMS: All I know is.

BRUCE: Because this becomes the story.

WILLIAMS: Let me just say, I think we had the president going after Jeff Sessions, his own Republican attorney general.

KILMEADE: Who recused himself.


KILMEADE: He's not doing anything.

WILLIAMS: Right. So he's going after Rod Rosenstein. He's going after the FBI. Who else -- who isn't he going after?

GUTFELD: All I can say is.


KILMEADE: Just look at this. Juan, just look at this. Nobody said Donald Trump is playing the perfect game so far. All we're saying is look at the text messages and the exchanges. Look at the facts. You should be as outraged as anybody. And then, pick your time when Trump is out of control and say this is out of control. But this is not Trump.

GUTFELD: You know what? Feels like this Ohr is in hot water.


GUTFELD: Republicans warning voters about what will happen if Nancy Pelosi becomes speaker again. That's next.


PERINO: The Trump effect being put to the test again in key primaries today. Trump backed Congressman Ron Desantis is trying to secure the Republican nomination to replace outgoing Florida Governor Rick Scott. And Scott is looking to wrap up the GOP senate nodded with a big boost from Trump. And in Arizona, it's a senate Republican primary featuring three candidates who are all strongly behind the president's agenda. In the backdrop of tonight races, a major warning sign for Republican midterm voters. GOP lawmakers are circulating a list of potential issues Democrats may investigate if they retake the house. Will this threat helped turn out the base?

The list is pretty amazing. It's basically of all the list that the house Democrats have sent requesting hearings on such issues as President Trump's tax returns, President Trump's family business, the payment to Stormy Daniels, James Comey's firing, cabinet secretary travel, the travel ban, family separation, on and on. It's basically, pretty much, nothing else would get done except for investigations, if this were to actually happen. So the Republicans -- sometimes, Tammy, you have to scare your base into turning out.

BRUCE: You do. And yet, this is pretty much what people want to do. They're still talking about impeachment even though some people are saying, well, that's not really a good idea. Even Adam Schiff the other day said, well, we really can't really talk about that right now. But if President Trump is everything they say he is. I mean, he's Hitler. He's carrying babies away from moms. Why wouldn't you want to? Why suddenly if he's the worst guy in the world but then you really don't want to investigate anything or you don't want to impeach him. And so that's what we're looking at. And these are serious things that the Democrats have been running on and have been talking to their base about. And we can expect them to do it partly because they don't want to govern. That's been a big problem with Democrats. They gin up the bases, they get people all excited, but they don't want to govern. And this.

WILLIAMS: Where did you get that from?

BRUCE: From the last eight years with Barack Obama.

WILLIAMS: This is ridiculous. Oh, please, are you kidding? I think Republicans, in fact, thought that he -- it was overreaching, doing too much, and had to obstruct him. I could go on.

(CROSSTALK) BRUCE: Bill Clinton governed. And that's why that administration, even with impeachment, worked because he enjoyed the process.

WILLIAMS: I think -- look, I think, just seriously, Dana has a point here about who's stirring up the base. That this is an action being taken by Republicans right now to say if you allow Democrats to take control of the house, we are going to lose President Trump because he may be impeached. And they see this, and I think rightly, as stirring up the GOP base because it's so strongly pro-Trump. And that those people then will turn out and not turn off, given all the bad news that Trump is experiencing.

GUTFELD: So stirring up the base though -- let's go back to this because telling the truth can actually stir up the base.


GUTFELD: Yeah. And I like how the Democrats are pretending that they aren't really interested impeachment. That's like a teenager trying to sneak a bottle of booze outside the house -- outside the house in front of their parents. Oh, no, it's just a water bottle. We know the Democrats are waiting to spring this on if they get the house. They're playing this down so they can then raise it when they can. So I do believe telling -- telling the truth can be stirring the base, by the way. Democrats stir the base by painting Trump is Hitler. You know as.

WILLIAMS: No, no, she said separating children from their parents. Boy, I think that's true. Oh, my God.

GUTFELD: Stirring the base.

WILLIAMS: How about this? Democrats want to do away with ICE, how about that? Oh, yeah, they want to do away with ICE.

PERINO: The point about family separation policy, there're already was a hearing about that. And so.

BRUCE: And then we'll have to deal with Barack Obama's establishment of it, and the fact that.

PERINO: The other thing is that the Democrats -- you know, they're finding out that some of their fringe on the left that come up with ideas like abolishing ICE, and it's not just the fringe, some mainstream Democrats as well. It's not going over so well. There was a poll taken by A.P., 57 percent of Democrats view the agency negatively, but the number that don't -- there's only 18 percent of Democrats favor dismantling this, Ok? So they're having to answer questions for things that their left, far left is suggesting.

KILMEADE: But some of that -- high profile people are saying it. Bernie Sanders, Gillibrand, and they're the ones saying it. And you can just say OK. You deal with it because it's not somebody writing this and they're not putting their name on it, these are major speeches given in front of major audiences to get a loud round of applause. The Democrats who have been successful in the special election, he's the close the gap or walk away with the win are the ones who are in the middle that still clearly criticize Trump.

GUTFELD: Brian, you want to get rid of the Ice Capades, which I think is heartless.


PERINO: Why do you feel that way about the Ice Capades?

KILMEADE: The Ice Capades, I feel like it never ends. There's no beginning and there's no end. I feel like.

GUTFELD: And by the way, there's no scoring either at Ice Capades.

KILMEADE: Crickets scares me.

PERINO: All right, up next, President Trump with a new warning for Google after claiming the company is silencing conservatives, up next.

GUTFELD: What is a Capades?


WILLIAMS: President Trump going after Google this morning on twitter, accusing the tech giant of being politically biased against conservatives. The president claims searched results are, quote, rigged, end quote, against him and other Republicans as well to suppress any good news about the Trump presidency. Now, the president doubling down this very afternoon.


PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Yeah, I think Google has really taken advantage of a lot of people, and I think that's a very serious thing and it's a very serious charge. I think what Google and what others are doing, if you look at what's going-on on twitter, if you look at what's going on in Facebook, they better be careful because you can't do that to people.


WILLIAMS: Google firing back saying its searches don't promote a political agenda. So what do you think?

BRUCE: Look, we have a history with all of the social media, and Facebook is also mentioned as a very good example. Remember their trending stories column that they said was the trending news of the day based on their algorithms. And then we realize that there was no real conservative sites, there's no conservative stories, there was nothing pro-conservative, and former editors came out and said that they routinely suppressed conservative news, things that conservatives would make them look good or would be of interest to conservatives, and then they had to eventually shutdown that entire framework.

WILLIAMS: Let me pick up on this and ask you a question. Much of it has to do, according to Google, with the idea that if you are searching something they give you what they call accredited sites like big newspapers that they have a sense of trust in their content as opposed to giving them simply opinionated sites that are likely tilted.

BRUCE: But that's the problem is that when you're liberal and you see a liberal side, that is the one that is legitimate to you, and you're going to view an opposing website in a different way because you don't agree with it. So if you're going to rank certain websites, you're going to rank them based on whether or not it looks like real life to you. That, look, if you're a liberal or a conservative, you're not going to look at your own material as being biased because it's what you also believe. And this is why when you've got 80 percent -- 85 percent of American media identifies effectively as liberal, as not conservative, and then you're going to have a Google determine which sites are going to be more legitimate, they're going to rate more legitimate the sites that they agree with that looks like their worldview. And automatically.

WILLIAMS: What about -- and it seems to me like saying there's no truth, there's no fact, there's no accurate news coverage in the country, so you just give me liberal opinion or give me conservative opinions. Is that we're saying?

KILMEADE: No, I think they're talking about -- this is the hottest issue in the country and there's no easy answer. This is the stem cell research of our generation, of this decade, because everyone thinks social media is the problem for their own reasons. I don't necessarily have the reason but Amazon, Google, Facebook, and twitter, they have to -- we have to come up with something that will work. I think, fundamentally, they actually want to get it to work. I think there's legitimate criticisms of those sites. My frustration is when -- for example, CEO Jack Dorsey comes to Capitol Hill to go in front of the energy committee on September 5th, next week, is there going to be anyone who's an expert to be able to ask him the types of questions. They're going to move the conversation forward or we going to see a bunch.

PERINO: So you think those hearings are unsatisfying?

KILMEADE: Well, I know you're being sarcastic. But we need somebody in the middle that is unbiased to say here's an idea of what to do because lawmakers who belong to a party are not capable of coming up with an answer.

WILLIAMS: By the way, Brian, Larry Kudlow said today, well, he's looking at the possibility of regulating them. And I think.

KILMEADE: I don't know where you start?

WILLIAMS: Well, I don't know. But that is so shocking to me that he would suggest that the government now.

PERINO: Especially Larry Kudlow.


PERINO: Especially Larry Kudlow, I mean, he's a free-market guy and conservatives typically are not for more regulation. I would add that -- 1:40 PM today, before the Daily Briefings, I checked Google News --

WILLIAMS: Your show.

PERINO: -- to see what was there. And the No. 1 story was a CNN story about debunking a Trump myth of some sort. A CNN Money story was about how Google is rigged against conservatives, based on the president's tweet. And the third story was the FOX News story about Tiger Woods. And I think we're going to talk about that later.

So I think that there's -- there's a lot of room for this algorithm to be manipulated. And all of these sites are privately-held companies.

KILMEADE: And they're powerful.

PERINO: But they also would say to you, "It doesn't make sense for us to alienate half of the country" when they're trying to make money. Remember, it was Michael Jordan said Republicans buy shoes, too. So they're going to try to make a free-market argument next week.

WILLIAMS: Well, Greg, so I was surprised to see that the president's going after Google. He had a bad week, and I guess he does his rage Googling --

KILMEADE: That was last week.

WILLIAMS: -- and says, "Oh, my God. Look at -- they've got negative stories here from New York Times, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal."


WILLIAMS: "I don't like these stories. Give me some conservative thing." But here's Trump back in July. He says the European Union is fining Google, and they're one of America's greatest companies.

PERINO: Oh, right.

WILLIAMS: But today, it's a different story.

PERINO: That's right.

GUTFELD: I mean, it surprises you Trump changes his opinion? I mean, it's been going on for two years. I think what Google is guilty of, everyone else in the media. They're chasing words and not deeds.

The deeds are good news. We have an 18-year high in optimism right now. That's not being reported. If you want onto Google and Googled Mexican trade, you would've gotten the top stories about the awkward phone call. You wouldn't have gotten the Mexican trade story.

And he's just like us. He Googles his name, and he gets mad when there's bad news. If you Google "Kilmeade," the first thing --

KILMEADE: Oh, my goodness.

GUTFELD: -- you're going to get is "hairpiece."

KILMEADE: Right, right.

GUTFELD: But don't Google Kilmeade and hairpiece, because then you'll see what happens.

KILMEADE: No, but 99 percent of the stuff on us is negative.

GUTFELD: Yes, yes, yes. And I'm used to it.

And if you look at Google Doodles, which I love. You know, instead of Easter, they'll have an activist. Instead of Christmas, they'll do some kind of festival. Instead of Burning Man -- I mean, they'll do Burning Man instead of Lou Dobbs's birthday. They're the king of virtue signaling.

You ask, like, why would you alienate half the conversation? It's to keep activists at bay. They would rather alienate half a population than have somebody come after them and say, "You're bigoted. You're sexist. You're racists."

They need to do a Google search on wisdom. Because right now, what they're doing is they're helping China in their A.I. Correct? But they are leaving -- they want to leave helping the military and making more precise drones that actually save lives.

WILLIAMS: OK, I've got a question for you about Alex Jones.


WILLIAMS: Because we know that some of these sites pushed Alex Jones and his conspiracy theories off on the idea that it's hate speech.


WILLIAMS: Why wouldn't you want to support that, Greg?

GUTFELD: I think Alex Jones is hate speech. It's the same way I feel about Louis Farrakhan.

WILLIAMS: OK. ESPN melting down --

GUTFELD: Where is he? On Twitter wearing a bowtie.

WILLIAMS: -- over Tiger Woods's refusal to criticize President Trump. The growing controversy -- you heard Dana reference it -- when we return.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you say to people who might find it interesting that you have, I guess, a friendly relationship with him?

TIGER WOODS, PROFESSIONAL GOLFER: Well, he's our -- he's the president of the United States. And you have to respect the office, and no matter who's in the office. You may like, dislike personality or the politics. But we all must respect the office.


KILMEADE: But he's done that. What was wrong with that answer? ESPN host, though, hears that answer and thinks Tiger Woods bailed out. They are teeing off on Tiger Woods, refusing to take the reporters bait and criticized President Trump or complement President Trump. So they start lashing out against Tiger Woods because he wouldn't lash out against the president. For example.


MAX KELLERMAN, ESPN CO-HOST, "FIRST TAKE": Tiger Woods is being -- you said, being slick. Here, he is being slick. He says we must respect the office. Therefore, that confers respect to the occupant. Tiger, is that what you're saying? If that's what you're saying, that is a stupid comment. I don't -- but I don't even know if he believes that that's when he said.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, first of all, we don't know what Tiger Woods believes. He's camblination (ph); he's not black. When he was arrested, he was black.


KILMEADE: Stephen Hayes Smith is one of the brighter people on television. I would love to hear him long form. But Max Kellerman thinks it's just unthinkable, Dana, that Tiger Woods would--

PERINO: Respect the office of the president?

KILMEADE: -- respect the office. And he probably likes President Trump in golf has his holes together (ph).

PERINO: I thought -- well, all people sports, who play sports, athletes, thank you. Looking for the word. They are going to -- thank you for the word -- are going to be asked questions about President Trump, because reporters can't help themselves. And they're always trying to figure out a way, how can can they make headlines? How can they make news?

The only way to make news, apparently, is the world today is if you ask somebody how they feel about President Trump, even if that has nothing to do about their golf game.

What I thought is that Tiger Woods knew that a question like that was probably coming. And I took it as a sincere genuine answer of how he feels about the presidency of the United States. And I think that ESPN, they can do whatever they want on their show. But Tiger Woods was prepared for that question. But it wasn't like he was reading somebody else's talking points. I think he believed it.


GUTFELD: Max Kellerman is a virtue-signaling jackass, and here's evidence. Would he have said that to Jim Brown last week? Would he have said it to Jim Brown, you know? Because Jim Brown would have wiped the floor with him. He would have gone to the studio, so he did it because he thought he could get away with it.

This is the problem with injecting politics into bodies that do not have an immune system for it. So when you inject politics into sports, sports gets sick. When you inject politics into the entertainment world, the entertainment gets world -- the entertainment world gets sick. When you inject politics into academia, what do you get? You get a poison, toxic campus. Whenever you put politics, it gets sick, except on "The Five." Because we are real.

PERINO: When you put sports -- inject sports into me, I get sick, because I can't even come up with the word "athlete."

KILMEADE: Put it this way. If people know President Trump, they have a different opinion of President Trump.

GUTFELD: Tell us about it, Brian.

KILMEADE: Mike Tyson knows him. Dennis Rodman knows him.


KILMEADE: Herschel Walker knows him.


KILMEADE: Just be jotting this down. Tim Scott got a chance to spend a lot of time with him. And guess what? So did Tiger Woods?

So Jim Brown joined us this morning on "FOX & Friends." He is getting blowback in the black community --


KILMEADE: -- for saying "I like President Trump. I think he's doing a decent job." Listen.


JIM BROWN, NFL HALL OF FAME: The greatest thing about America is that we all have our opinions and our thoughts. Nobody is totally correct in everything that they do. I have access to the president; and any time I have access to the president and he will listen to my thoughts, that's all I can ask of him.


WILLIAMS: And that's all that he said: "I have access to the president." That's just like Kanye West: "I have access, and therefore, I want to be" - - what'd he say, Yeezy?

KILMEADE: You didn't hear the whole thing, but he does say he liked what he's doing.

GUTFELD: More than Obama gave them.

WILLIAMS: But you know, what's interesting about the Tiger Woods thing is Tiger Woods was asked, "So what about the politics, then? If you say you respect the office."

And by the way, Max Kellerman, he was right when he said this was a slick move that allowed him to say, "I respect the office" without saying, "Well, what do you think about this president?"

KILMEADE: What's wrong with the right answer?

WILLIAMS: I'm sorry?

KILMEADE: What's wrong with the right answer?

WILLIAMS: What's the right answer?

KILMEADE: He respects the office of the president.

WILLIAMS: That's not -- that's not an answer.

KILMEADE: Why isn't it?

PERINO: Why not? That's a great answer.

KILMEADE: It's perfect

WILLIAMS: Let me tell you why. It's like saying you respect X, Y, Z. And you saying, "I respect X, Y, G but not -- let's not talk about X, Y, Z." Here's what he said. He said, "I just finished 72 holes, and I'm really hungry."

KILMEADE: At the end.

WILLIAMS: Does that sound like a kid who's trying to get away from --

KILMEADE: He's 43, and it's the fifth follow-up.

WILLIAMS: He's a big boy, and in this era, President Trump, not the athletes, have made the issue. President Trump has gone after NFL players, who are protesting. He's gone after Stephen Curry, LeBron James. Shut up and dribble? Because why?

KILMEADE: He didn't say that. He never said that.

WILLIAMS: He's always saying that these --

KILMEADE: He never said that.

WILLIAMS: -- people --

KILMEADE: He said they're not going to the Oval Office. Don't bother.

WILLIAMS: -- they don't want anything to do with him for a very real reason.

BRUCE: There is one reason why this is happening. The latest poll, 36 percent of African-Americans support the president --

WILLIAMS: Oh, please.

BRUCE: -- because their economy is better. Lowest unemployment rate in history for African-Americans. The future is brighter again. They're realizing that the conservative ideal is worthwhile and should be considered. They're hearing other African-Americans they like, like Kanye West, say, "Wait a minute. Maybe we should be thinking about things."

Tiger Woods and others are not conforming, and that's what they expect of the gay community, African-Americans, women. Even if your lives are better, you will be punished if you say that's OK, because that's all they have left. That's Tiger Woods's crime, apparently.

WILLIAMS: That's not. Tiger Woods plays a game.

BRUCE: He likes the presidency and the president, and African-American lives are better under this president.

WILLIAMS: This is ridiculous. This is such a cheap argument about unemployment rates. Let me just say, Tiger Woods plays the game.

BRUCE: The lowest unemployment rate in history is a cheap argument?

WILLIAMS: That is a cheap argument. That's ridiculous.

BRUCE: Juan.

WILLIAMS: If you were saying to me, "Oh, you know what?"

BRUCE: Juan.

WILLIAMS: "President Trump is now about lowering black unemployment so that it matches white unemployment. Or President Obama [SIC] -- President Trump is doing something" --


BRUCE: Going after MS-13.

WILLIAMS: " -- to encourage job training." No, he's not doing any of that.

Here's what Tiger Woods is about. Tiger Woods realizes that his sponsors and the people who play golf, generally white, maybe Republican. And he is not taking the risk of speaking truth to power.

KILMEADE: You're -- you're just projecting what you think Tiger Woods is thinking.

WILLIAMS: No, I don't know what he thinks.

GUTFELD: Mind reading.

KILMEADE: I project this. He's known him for 15, 20 years, and likes him. I'll project that.

BRUCE: And we all seem to recall --

KILMEADE: That's probably a better idea.

PERINO: He also -- I didn't have a chance to talk. He also has to -- a responsibility to himself and to his business and to --

WILLIAMS: There we go.

PERINO: So look, if I were his P.R. advisor and I anticipated that question, I'm like, that is a great answer. You might get dinged on ESPN, but if you want to focus, you really want to make a comeback in golf, you've got to focus on this and not allow a distraction with politics.

GUTFELD: Like, politics in other arenas, sucks. Politics kills everything.

KILMEADE: All right. So I guess Greg gets the last word. Meanwhile, coming up straight ahead, keeping a room cold is apparently now sexist. That story is next. Please gradually zoom out.


BRUCE: All right, everybody. Cries of sexism in the New York gubernatorial race, not about politics but about room temperature.

Cynthia Nixon's team is accusing Governor Andrew Cuomo of being sexist for trying to debate in a chilly room when they face off tomorrow night.

Turns out this is a battle many Americans face. A recent survey says 43 percent of coworkers have clashed --

KILMEADE: To battle.

BRUCE: -- over being too hot or too cold in the workplace.

Obviously, Cynthia Nixon is Goldilocks. Look, if she can't handle a room temperature properly, how can she handle being in a variety of different rooms, dealing with politicians, et cetera? Greg, I'm sure you might have something to say about that.

GUTFELD: She -- she wants 76 degrees in a packed auditorium?

KILMEADE: It's freezing.

GUTFELD: If you take the body heat of the -- you're going to put it into the 80s, and they are going to despise her.

By the way, this is -- it is a fact. This is a biological difference among many. And if you deny it, you're a science denier. We all have -- we have different metabolic rates. So men actually can handle, I guess, the cold better.

KILMEADE: Women are hotter.

GUTFELD: That will -- that will end up somewhere. Take it out of context and put it on a blog. There you go.

WILLIAMS: I think it's good news for you, Brian.

BRUCE: Also, Dana, we -- men and women dress differently in the office. You know?

PERINO: I'm freezing every day, so I would give her a little tip. In my mug is hot water.

GUTFELD: Rum. Rum.

PERINO: No, but that's a good idea.


PERINO: If I drank rum, that would be a good idea. It's hot water. I hold my cup and it's hot; and then I get -- I don't have to complain too much about how freezing it is.

KILMEADE: But is it sexist? That's the problem. Is it sexist?

PERINO: No, it's not.

KILMEADE: Is it sexist.

PERINO: Remember Charlie Crist in Florida?


PERINO: And he was going to have a debate. And one of the big demands is that he had to have a fan at all times.

GUTFELD: And where was the fan?

PERINO: Underneath the podium.

GUTFELD: It was right at an odd level. It was the strangest thing.

PERINO: Yes, it's a very strange thing.

GUTFELD: Like a fan --

PERINO: And that is not sexist. That is just a demand.

WILLIAMS: Yes, because there's a reality here. There's a political reality that if you go back, I think it's the 1960 campaign with Nixon/Kennedy. That they had a debate, and Nixon -- Nixon starts to pop sweat.

GUTFELD: So she wants him to sweat.

WILLIAMS: And he looks terrible on TV. He looks like he's fleeing a crime scene.

BRUCE: They have to adjusts, but these days, everything either -- everything has to be sexist. But when you're running -- when our argument is, is that we are the same; women can do what men do. But now everything has to be adjusted because we can't handle a room temperature?

WILLIAMS: No, no, no. That's not what they're saying. They're saying -- she's saying that she wants to eliminate his demand that it be freezing. And he has said he likes a cold environment.

KILMEADE: In the past, but the thing is, it's like boxing, Juan.

BRUCE: And she wants it at 76.

KILMEADE: You're a boxing fan. If you're the champion, you get to pick the ring, the venue.

WILLIAMS: That's what she said. She said CBS, the local CBS, the affiliate here in New York, negotiated exclusively with him. Because she wanted several debates. She's only getting one debate on his terms.

BRUCE: Because he's -- he's leading. And he doesn't even really need to do it, because he's ahead. But thank you for man-splaining that for me.

Yes, I mean, this is -- this is what you're going to see, and this is what we want. I want women to run for office, but we don't want it to all be about sexism.

PERINO: I do want it to be comfortable in the room.

BRUCE: But 76 isn't even comfortable. Right? I mean, she's asking --

PERINO: No, see it depends. Like, at 75, I'm cold. At 76, I'm hot. So it's, like, 75.5 would be perfect.

GUTFELD: Do you want to talk about sexism, though? Think about all of the men who built buildings, who built the buildings that people actually use, who risked their lives on girders in the 1960s and the 1970s, who built the bridges.

KILMEADE: And then blew the money on the track.

GUTFELD: Or if the -- oh, no, they fell.

KILMEADE: They fell.

GUTFELD: Brooklyn Bridge, look at the numbers of people who died on the Brooklyn Bridge.

BRUCE: All the men who made things possible and now women can help make them possible, too.

GUTFELD: There you go.

BRUCE: Coming up, "One More Thing" is coming up next.


GUTFELD: "OMT" -- Juan.

WILLIAMS: Well, Gregory, you know what? Dreams do come true.

GUTFELD: No, they don't.

WILLIAMS: And sometimes in doubles. Yes, because that's what happened for Sophia Sanchez, an 11-year-old awaiting a heart transplant in Chicago. She posted a video of her dancing in the hospital with an I.V. in her arm to rapper Drake's "In My Feelings." So then she asked Drake to come visit her. Against all odds, guess what happened? He did.



DRAKE, RAP ARTIST: You asked me to come, I'm here. What's up?


WILLIAMS: Sophia -- Sophia also asked -- and this is the double, Gregory - - Sophia asked for a new heart, because she was struggling. And guess what? The second dream also came true.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're getting a heart.


SANCHEZ: I'm getting a heart, Mom!


WILLIAMS: Oh, my gosh. So yesterday, Sophia had the heart implanted and, according to her mom, Natalie, Sophia is doing well. I want you to know, Sophia, you've got five people here at FOX rooting and praying for you.

PERINO: Like, 500 million.


GUTFELD: You have proven me wrong, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Wow. What?

GUTFELD: Now I need to find a heart. All right.

PERINO: No one's going to give you a heart.

GUTFELD: No one's going to give me a heart.

KILMEADE: Especially after this.

GRAPHIC: Greg's Brian Kilmeade Spelling News

GUTFELD: "Greg's Brian Kilmeade Spelling News." Got a lot of big news in the Brian Kilmeade spelling arena. Let's go live to tape.


LARRY KUDLOW, CHIEF WHITE HOUSE ECONOMIC ADVISOR: There's a word that Canada has trouble with. It's M-I-L-K.

KILMEADE: Now, in terms of Canada, I guess Canada hates milk. I mean, hates to talk about milk, M-A-L-K.

STEVE DOOCY, CO-HOST, "FOX & FRIENDS": They're lactose intolerant.

KILMEADE: That's what you've got.

DOOCY: By the way, Brian -- Brian, did you say -- it's "M-I-L-K".

KILMEADE: You're right. Thank you very much.

DOOCY: Not "M-A-L-K."

KILMEADE: You're -- thanks for correcting me. You helped me, saved a headline. Appreciate it.


GUTFELD: How nice of Larry to correct you on television.

KILMEADE: That would have slipped by the Gutfeld staff, except for Larry corrected me.

PERINO: I thought I heard you say "I" in my -- OK, you didn't.

KILMEADE: I know how to spell "milk," just not in the morning.


WILLIAMS: How about "potato"?

PERINO: I have something to promote. I'm going to be on Tucker Carlson tonight at 8 p.m., so you can check that out there. We have a graphic. Yes, I have a graphic today.

Marie Unanue, she has a new book. She's a friend of mine. And it is called "The Adventures of Phatty and Payaso: Central Park," ad it's a children's book, a chapter book, actually. So if you are a little more advanced, you might like it. Phatty and Payaso, they go to Central Park. They want to go take a stand against bullying, but then they get -- all sorts of adventures. They have a adventure that goes with it, if you want to check it out.


KILMEADE: Real quick, my paperback of "Andrew Jackson: Miracle of New Orleans," includes what other presidents thought of Andrew Jackson, because he's so controversial today. It's coming out in October. And I'm going to couple it with three events. One in Tampa, one in Norfolk, one in Nashville. His

I want to talk about George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and the Tripoli pirates, as well as "Andrew Jackson: Miracle of New Orleans." "America Great from the Start." Because so many people have problems with our history, I wanted to have a live event where people can ask questions.

GUTFELD: Excellent, brain. Tammy.

BRUCE: And for everyone's books and events, you can now get a pumpkin spice latte. I know fall does not start until the 22, but already the pumpkin spice latte is out. It is their biggest selling drink of all time.

GUTFELD: I love it. I love it.

BRUCE: I -- I love it as well.

PERINO: You do?

BRUE: Normally, I like regular coffee but in this case, that's for me --

PERINO: In 95 degree heat?

BRUCE: In season, sure.

KILMEADE: But they use real pumpkin.

BRUCE: They use real pumpkin, and you can get a pumpkin scones. You can get, like, a cookie in the shape of an owl that's a pumpkin. So welcome to fall, and enjoy the pumpkin spice latte.

GUTFELD: All right. Set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of "The Five." "Special Report" up next. Hey, Bret.

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