Chaffetz talks orders on immigration, Trump's hotel lease

This is a rush transcript from "The First 100 Days," January 25, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, FOX NEWS HOST: Breaking tonight, President Trump makes it clear with two new executive orders that he intends to enforce the laws on the books when it comes to people here in this country illegally. And that has sent some shockwaves on both sides of this fierce debate tonight.

Plus, a late breaking AP report this evening suggesting that the president of Mexico may now cancel his planned trip to meet with Mr. Trump next week as a result of all of the developments today.

Welcome, everybody. I'm Martha MacCallum and this is a chock-full day six of "The First 100." So let's get right to it.

President Trump made a trip to the Department of Homeland Security this morning. He was joined there by families of Americans who have been killed by illegal immigrants in this country. The commander-in-chief signing two documents and fulfilling campaign promises all along the way.



DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes, we will build a great wall.


And who is going to pay for the wall?

CROWD: Mexico!

TRUMP: The secretary of homeland security working with myself and my staff will begin immediate construction of a border wall.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mexico's president said in recent days that Mexico absolutely will not pay.

TRUMP: There will be a payment.

We will protect American lives. We will cancel all federal funding to sanctuary cities.

Our order also does the following, cracks down on sanctuary cities.


MACCALLUM: So in moments, we will be joined by the chairman of the House Oversight Committee Congressman Jason Chaffetz. His team fought the Obama administration for years to get some of these changes. But, first, we go to chief White House correspondent John Roberts live at the White House with exactly how all of this went down today.

Hi, John.


You know, all during the campaign trail, there was a running question, would President Trump make good on his pledge to build the border wall? Or will the wall simply fall to the pressure of politics once he got to Washington, D.C.

Well, today, he made good on that promise, signing an executive order, a sweeping series of new measures to enhance border security along the southern border.

First and foremost among them, construction of a new wall, which by some estimates, could cost $25 billion, though as a candidate, President Trump said, it would be more like $8 to $12 billion.

He also wants to hire 5000 more border patrol agents. The order would also eliminate the Obama era practice of catch and release, which administration officials believe could stem the tide of migrants coming through Mexico from Central America to the United States.

And here is a big one. It would also, in some forms of federal funding for sanctuary cities like those of New York, Chicago, Los Angeles and San Francisco.

Initially, U.S. taxpayers would foot the bill for construction. But President Trump, as you saw there earlier, insist that Mexico ultimately will pay that bill.

Another big executive order coming, this one likely on Friday. The policy that was originally called the Muslim Ban. President Trump will temporarily suspend visas from nations like Iraq, Syria, Sudan, Libya, Somalia and Yemen.

He's also expected to reduce the number of refugees that are allowed to come into the United States and potentially put a temporary ban on all refugees from Syria coming into the U.S. until those extreme vetting measures can be put in place.

Martha, the president firmly believes that that combined with the enhanced security measures on the southern border really will go a long way to improving security, national security here in the United States.


MACCALLUM: John, thank you very much.

Joining me now, Congressman Jason Chaffetz, chairman of the House Oversight Committee, which held several hearings on the Obama administration's practice of capturing and releasing criminal, illegal immigrants.

He joins us now from the Republican retreat that is going on in Philadelphia, but he put on a tie for us this morning. Everybody was in sweaters today.

Hey, good to see you, congressman. Welcome.

JASON CHAFFETZ, R-UTAH, HOUSE OVERSIGHT & GOVERNMENT REFORM COMMITTEE: I did. I just clipped on this tie. Glad to be with you.


MACCALLUM: I appreciate that. Very nice of you.

So, you know, you just listened to John Roberts report. I mean, you've got potential action on NAFTA, on Muslim immigrants to this country. You have, you know, shock waves going across the country at the fact that he is actually following through with a lot of what he said he would do, build the wall and the like. Your thoughts on all this?

CHAFFETZ: Well, it is shocking, right? For those on the left, those liberals who didn't think that you would actually elect somebody who did what they said they were going to do and actually enforce the law.

All we try to do for over the last eight years is try to get President Obama to enforce the law and he would not do it. And so to have President Trump take this action in the first few days I think sends a strong signal. I wholeheartedly support it and we desperately need it.

MACCALLUM: All right. Who is going to pay for the wall? The upfront money is going to come from the U.S. taxpayer. How was that going to work?

CHAFFETZ: Well, I think we are going to visit with President Trump. But I do think Mexico will ultimately pay for it. And it's going to help both countries. And I heard you mention that potentially, the president of Mexico is not going to come to the United States. That would be the absolute wrong move.

We have strong cultural ties. We have a lot of trade that happens between the two countries. But I do believe in securing the border. We're going to help end human trafficking. We're going to help deal with the weapons problems crossing the border. We're going to deal with the illegal drug trade and deal with illegal things that we should have. And that's in the interests of both the United States and Mexico.

MACCALLUM: And one of the biggest concerns on the part of people who are here or children who are born here, we heard so much about DACA and deferring action in terms of kicking them out.

I want to go to this sound bite between now President Trump, but he was on the campaign trail at the time, and Chuck Todd, talking about what known is DACA.



TRUMP: The executive order gets rescinded. One good thing about --

CHUCK TODD, MSNBC HOST: You will rescind that one, too?

TRUMP: One good thing about --

TODD: You will rescind the DACA?


TRUMP: We have to make a whole new set of standards. And when people come in, they have to --

TODD: You are going to split up families?


MACCALLUM: Split up families. Paul Ryan was asked about this tonight in an interview. And he said that dreamers need not worry.

What's your understanding of whether or not they need to worry?

CHAFFETZ: Well, look, we need to fix legal immigration. But I want to prioritize going after those criminal aliens. Under Barack Obama, he released more than 80,000 people that were here in this country illegally, committed a crime, were convicted of that crime and rather than deporting them, he released them back out into the public. So there is this criminal element out there that should be prioritized. Not some 3-year-old who didn't come here, you know, by their own volition.

But at the same time, we have laws on the books. And I think what we see is a signal out of the White House today, which is so encouraging, let's enforce the law and fix legal immigration. I think that's a good mantra.

MACCALLUM: So the other thing that is coming next is the rule on countries that harbor terrorists or where terrorism comes from. Syria would be on that list. Yemen would be on that list. Libya and the like.

What do you think? And can he do it?

CHAFFETZ: I think extreme vetting, making sure we know exactly who these people are, what their background is. Remember, we heard the FBI director a long time ago say we can't properly vet these people because we don't know their backgrounds.

And the other thing I heard President Trump talk about was dealing with asylum reform. This is a bill that I've been championing. It has absolutely -- it's been taken advantage of.

People are coming here, claiming asylum. They will get a court date in 2020. Now, they are here legally, and yet they stuck into the country. And so there is a lot of fix there in entry-exit program. I'm just very proud of what the president did today right after.


MACCALLUM: Before I let you go, I want to ask you something on a different topic. A report that came out today that you are looking into the Trump D.C. hotel lease.

What is that about?

CHAFFETZ: Well, we did ask at the beginning of December to see what this contract looks like and that's all we've simply requested that. We will see where it goes, but the oversight committee did request that copy of that lease.

MACCALLUM: Are you concerned that there's not a strong enough separation between the business and the president, where that hotel is concerned or what?

CHAFFETZ: No, I think there is an interesting question when you have somebody who is both the tenant and the landlord. How is that going to work? And we are curious as to what the GSA, who administers these contracts, what do they think of that and how is that going to work out.

MACCALLUM: All right. We'll stay tuned.

Congressman Chaffetz, thank you very much. Good to see you tonight.

CHAFFETZ: Thank you. Thank you.

MACCALLUM: So there was also news breaking in the last hour on a report that suggests that Trump administration wants to bring back waterboarding.

Dr. James Mitchell is the man who interrogated the mastermind KSM behind 9/11. He will join us with his thoughts on what is being called a draft report tonight.

Plus, President Trump signing order after order and the headlines are taking note of the quote incredible pace coming out of the White House.

Brit Hume joins us with a look at what he thinks of all of this.

And then, the new president is tonight sending a strong message to sanctuary cities. He is ordering them to comply with the laws that are already on the books or else.

Coming up next, we will speak with a mom who went through a horrific experience as her son was murdered by an illegal. We will talk with a man who openly admits being undocumented. And we will have a must-see debate on this hot, emotional topic tonight.


TRUMP: Laura Wilkerson, who lost her 17-year-old son, beautiful Josh. Josh was special. Where is Laura?

Laura. Thank you, Laura.



MACCALLUM: Breaking tonight, new fallout from one of two executive orders on immigration today. President Trump signaling a major crackdown on so- called sanctuary cities. He said he will cut federal taxpayer dollars to jurisdictions that failed to report illegal immigrants to the federal authorities.

Here's how White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer outlined the move earlier today.

Watch this.


SEAN SPICER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: What the executive order does is it directs the secretary to look at ways that the -- look at funding streams that are going to these cities of federal money is and figure out how we can defund those dreams.

You've got -- the American people out there working and then having their money sent to places where folks that aren't in this country legally are getting sent to cities that are therefore using their tax dollars.


MACCALLUM: So in just a moment, we'll have reaction from Jose Antonio Vargas, and an angel mom, Laura Wilkerson, whose son was killed by an illegal immigrant.

Stand by for that.

But first, let's go to Trace Gallagher in our West Coast newsroom with how all this shook out today.


TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Martha, the biggest weapon President Trump has when it comes to cutting off certain funding for the nation's 300 plus sanctuary communities is through the Department of Justice and Homeland Security.

Experts say the attorney general likely Jeff Sessions, who is an outspoken critic of illegal immigration has broad authority to decide how much grant money cities get for things like hiring police officers, prosecuting criminals, treating drug addicts, even preparing it for a terrorist attack.

Cutting off other federal grant money would likely need approval from federal lawmakers. But for now, Republicans controlled both houses of Congress. Sanctuary cities could also be sued by the administration for failing to abide by federal law but cities like New York, Los Angeles, Chicago and San Francisco have vowed to fight back.

For example, California has already retained the law firm of former Attorney General Eric Holder to help fight the Trump administration. President Trump's executive order is mainly aimed at forcing cities to stop harboring criminal aliens and start identifying them to immigration agents.

Donald Trump has long said that Kate Steinle would not have been shot and killed in San Francisco if the city had turned her alleged killer over to border agents instead of releasing him. That suspect had been arrested and deported numerous times.

President Trump is also planning on tripling the number of I.C.E. agents. Listen.


TRUMP: For too long, your offices had agents haven't been allowed to properly do their jobs. You know that, right? Do you know that? Absolutely. But that's all about to change.


GALLAGHER: The president's executive order also states that it will collect unpaid fines from illegal immigrants, though, it is unclear exactly how that is enforced.


MACCALLUM: Trace, thank you.

So there were several parents on hand to watch the president take action on immigration today. All of whom had children whose lives were taken by criminals who were here in the country illegally at the time.

Among those parents was Laura Wilkerson. In 2010, her teenage son, Joshua, on the left, was brutally murdered at the hands of his classmate, on the right, who was brought here as a child illegally from Belize.

Laura is now chairwoman of She has since provided Congress with emotional testimony about the loss of her son, Josh.


LAURA WILKERSON, CHAIRWOMAN, ENFORCETHELAW.ORG: My youngest son, Josh, who was a senior in high school and had his whole life ahead of him, he went to school and never returned. As josh walked up to the doors of the school that morning, Hermilo Moralez walked up as well.

There was a video that I saw in trial. This is the last picture of Josh alive. The last time I will ever see my son walk, talk, anything about him.


MACCALLUM: She lives with this every day and she joins us now, along with Jose Antonio Vargas, who is a self-proclaimed undocumented immigrant. He is an activist and the founder of #EmergingUS.

I know this has been an emotional day for both of you and I really want to thank you both for being here today.

Laura, first of all, let me start with you. When you were standing there and you watched these documents get signed, what went through your mind?

WILKERSON: Relief. We are finally going to have someone in there that wants to follow current law and uphold the law. And so, it was absolutely a relief today and a start. A start.

MACCALLUM: Jose, I know that you've said today was very tough for you. Tell me -- tell me why and when you look at the fact that what he is talking about doing is enforcing laws that are already part of the federal legal canon of the country.

JOSE ANTONIO VARGAS, FOUNDER, #EMERGINGUS: Well, first of all, thank you for having me. I actually met Miss Wilkerson at the Republican National Convention in Cleveland. And I met her and apologize to her about this whole, horrific ordeal that no mother should ever go through.

I have to say, however, you know, the facts tell us that the vast majority of undocumented people in this country are not criminals. To be in this country illegally is a civil offense, not a criminal one.

The vast majority of us are not murderers and rapists and killers. That man that ended up, you know, the horrible, horrible tragedy, was committed by an outlier. Not a somebody who was part of the norm.


MACCALLUM: Sure. I don't think anyone is suggesting, Jose, that everybody who is here who's undocumented is a murderer. That's not what it's about. What it's about is enforcing the laws that are on the books. And what we've heard tonight from Paul Ryan and we're going to hear more about, you know, returning people because I think that's, I would assume that's your biggest concern, right, is the children like yourself who were brought here with their families.

VARGAS: But the thing, though, is the implication of the language that we have been using and how we talk about people, right?

I have to say, by the way, let's talk about enforcing the laws. When are we going to talk about the American employers who actually benefit and exploit undocumented workers in this country?

I'm in California, right? Home to 2 million undocumented people. Are we going to talk about the U.S. employers, the American employers and how they benefit from us?

How about Texas? 1.8 million undocumented born in the state of Texas. The construction industry would not survive in Texas without undocumented workers.


MACCALLUM: I mean, I think there are two sides to this story.


VARGAS: Are they going to enforce those laws?

MACCALLUM: But let me ask you, you know -- and, Laura, let me ask you to weigh in on this. Because, you know, you hear what Jose is saying.

In terms of the people who are here. You know, I assume that you want simply the laws to be followed and that might lead to, you know, fewer workers being here. Correct? And then everyone has to deal with that.

WILKERSON: That's exactly right. And, you know, you say you've had a tough day, you know. I don't know if you understand what a tough day is in the life of a parent who has lost a child at the hands of an illegal in this country. No one is here to say the vast majority, but you're legal or illegal. It's one way or the other. There's no grey area on that. You've had plenty of time in this country to get in line, come in the front door.

Your parents brought you here undocumented and that's something that is a question you will have to have for your parents. But you have had plenty of time to get in line and we don't have to make any excuses for that. We have to do nothing for the illegal here. They need to come in and come through the front door. There is a process. It needs to be ongoing and enforced.

MACCALLUM: Well put. I mean, these are laws that are on the books. So I'll say it again. You know, what's wrong with a country having a border, with controlling who comes in and who goes out? Why is that a radical idea?

VARGAS: It's not a radical idea. Of course, a country has a right to define and defend its border. I totally get that. But why are people here? Are we here so people can enjoy calling us criminals and being dehumanized and being thought that all we are doing is actually be a burden in this country, when the reality is we contribute billions of dollars to the economy of this country with what Laura just said?

WILKERSON: How do you do so?


VARGAS: Oh, you know, you actually should talk to the IRS and the social security administration. We have paid billions of dollars into the social security and to the federal government.


WILKERSON: How do you have a social security card to be in this country? How do you have a social security number?


VARGAS: You should ask the social security administration.

WILKERSON: I'm asking you. How do you get that? You are undocumented person.


MACCALLUM: I believe your grandfather brought it, is that right?

VARGAS: My grandfather bought it. But let me just say this. About the comment that you made. I live in the grey area. This is not black and white.

WILKERSON: There is no grey area.

VARGAS: This is not about just illegal versus -- oh, there's -- millions of people live the grey area every day, ma'am.

WILKERSON: You are in this country, illegally and that's it. There's no grey area.


MACCALLUM: I thank both of you for being here. The details of all of this will come out in the days and weeks to come. It's clear from what we've heard so far that it is criminal people who have committed crimes who are here illegally, who would be first on the list for this kind of push back.

So Laura Wilkerson, thank you very much. Jose Vargas, thank you very much. Both of you.

Obviously, a continuation of that conversation is to come.

And coming up here tonight, some new calls for an investigation into voter fraud coming from the president himself. One of the people who could play a key role in all of this joins us.

Plus, breaking news tonight on reports that President Trump plans a very controversial approach to dealing with terrorists. Is that true? We will break it down for you -- next.


TRUMP: When ISIS is doing things that nobody has ever heard of since medieval times, would I feel strongly about waterboarding? As far as I'm concerned, we have to fight fire with fire.


MACCALLUM: Breaking tonight, could President Trump be bringing back enhanced interrogation?

The New York Times ran this headline this morning. Quote, "Trump Poised to Lift Ban on CIA Black Site Prisons."

With a three-page executive order draft possibly clearing the way for waterboarding and other enhanced interrogation techniques to be used, once again, on terror suspects.

Now this draft order has reignited a debate over whether or not these methods are effective and whether or not they are legal or should be reinstated ever.

Dr. James Mitchell, who has interrogated some of the world's most notorious terrorist, including KSM, will talk to us about this in a moment.

But, first, let's go to national security correspondent Jennifer Griffin, who is live in our nation's capital with some confusion that surrounded this document today.

Hi, Jennifer.

JENNIFER GRIFFIN, FOX NEWS NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Martha. Well, White House sources tell us there is no plan to resurrect CIA black sites nor is there a plan to review the procedures in the army field manual.

President Trump, however, said in an interview today that he still favors waterboarding, but will leave the decision to his CIA Director Mike Pompeo and Defense Secretary James Mattis, who both said they oppose torture.


TRUMP: As far as I'm concerned, we have to fight fire with fire. I will rely on Pompeo and Mattis and my group. And if they don't want to do this, that's fine. If they do want to do, then I will work toward that end. I want to do everything within the bounds of what we are allowed to do legally. But do I feel it works? Absolutely, I feel it works.


GRIFFIN: The New York Times published a draft document from the transition, one of thousands that were written by various individuals, suggesting possible policies that the Trump administration might want to pursue in executive orders.


SPICER: It is not a White House document. I have no idea where it came from. But it is not a White House document.


GRIFFIN: Pompeo was asked about reinstituting waterboarding and torture during his confirmation hearing.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you were ordered by the president to restart the CIA's use of enhanced interrogation techniques that fall outside of the army field manual, would you comply?

MIKE POMPEO, DIRECTOR, CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY: Senator, absolutely not. Moreover, I can't imagine that I would be asked that by the president-elect or then-president.


GRIFFIN: But in written testimony, a few days later, Pompeo seemed to leave the door open to waterboarding and the use of torture. Quote, "If experts believe current law was an impediment to gathering vital intelligence to protect the country, I would want to understand such impediments and whether any recommendations were appropriate for changing current law."

The reaction from "The Hill" was swift with Senator John McCain saying the law is the law and that America is not bringing back torture.

Back to you, Martha.

MACCALLUM: Jennifer, thank you very much.

So joining us now, Dr. James Mitchell, author of "Enhanced Interrogation: Inside the Minds and Motives of the Islamic Terrorists Trying to Destroy America."

Dr. Mitchell has interrogated some of the world's worst terrorists, including 9/11 mastermind, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.

Doctor, very good to have you with us tonight. Thank you for being here.


MACCALLUM: You know, just in terms of the -- thank you. In terms of the news that broke today, when you read this story and you heard about this document that had been circulated, which talked about bringing these things back, what went through your mind, where do you think this came from?

MITCHELL: I have no idea where it came from. But in my mind, it would make perfect sense for the new president to try to get a handle on whether things are working or they weren't working. I don't know whether that document is a fake. I have no inside knowledge about that. But it does make sense to take a look at whether or not the current measures that we have, what we need to have to protect ourselves.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, THE FIRST 100 DAYS HOST: After 9/11, you were asked to come up with interrogation techniques, because you had taught our military how to avoid that kind of, a grueling questioning and not break down. So, you did the reverse engineer essentially. Tell everybody at home what you did to KSM, Khalid Seikh Mohammed, the mastermind behind 9/11, and how you broke him.

MITCHELL: Well, we wouldn't use the word broke. We did waterboarding. He was actually very good about avoiding the water board. The thing that actually got him, cooperating enough that we could use a social influence, which is really what is important to use, more so than the EIT, social influence techniques, was walling and sleep deprivation. He was only subjected to enhanced interrogation for 21 days. That is three weeks. He was in CIA custody before he was moved to Guantanamo for another 170 weeks, where he cooperated. So, this emphasis on EIT and this emphasis on how long they were subjected to it, I think it is overplayed.

MACCALLUM: So do you think we should bring black sites? That we should bring back the ability to use these techniques? It sounds like what you are saying is that it wasn't ultimately that waterboarding had worked on him. It was the combination of all of these things. Is that right?

MITCHELL: We believe it was the combination of all of those things, in that short period of time that he was exposed to them. Somewhere between waterboarding and the army field manual, there should be some legal form of coercion, because I would encourage all of your viewers to actually read to Senator McCain's press release today. What he says in that press release is that we are restricted to the army field manual and the whole purpose of the army field manual is to rely on what the detainees voluntarily tell us. What I discovered after I had spent so much time, years literally with some of the worst people on the planet, some of them do voluntarily tell you things. When they do, that is great. But some of them, like KSM, would not have told us what we needed to know to disrupt that second wave of attacks. And we should not have our National Defense protecting us from terrorists based on what to some terrorist is willing to tell us voluntarily.

MACCALLUM: So you would advise President Trump to revisit these concepts?

MITCHELL: I would advise him to take a look at them. I don't want to be the poster boy for waterboarding, because I am the guy who tried to get the CIA to stop waterboarding after we did it on three people, once the second wave of attacks was disrupted. We told them we didn't think they need to do that anymore. But I think we do have to look at the techniques and determine what is working. I am telling you, there are a handful of people out there who are the worst of the worst, who are highly committed to their cause, who have some catastrophic attack in mind, who are not going to pony up and volunteer information so that we can disrupt those attacks. We wouldn't do that. Our generals wouldn't do that. General Mattis would not give up information that would get American killed for what's in the army field manual. It's insulting to suggest that he would. He would not voluntarily do that. So, in my mind, it makes perfect sense that the president would ask his Intel folks to revisit that. And if they choose not to do that, then, we have to admit to ourselves --

MACCALLUM: Dr. Mitchell, thank you. You got cut off, I'm not sure why. But we thank you very much. It was fascinating having you. Hope you come back soon, Dr. Mitchell. What a story. All right so more tonight, when Donald Trump won the White House, some folks on the left made a dramatic prediction about what would happen next in our economy. Tonight, we have got the video that they are going to hate. Plus, some headline writers are not describing the president's first week as the "Trump tornado." Senior Political Analyst Brit Hume is next with his take on what is going on here when we come back.


MACCALLUM: New reaction tonight to what some journalists are calling the "incredible pace of activity" that is coming out of the White House, with just six days and up the first 100. They are noting that market contrast to business as usual. The "Washington Examiner" proclaims that the "Trump tornado" has hit Washington, just as explains how Donald Trump's signature on it for executive orders is rapidly reshaping America, but it is his actions today in particular that may reshape our foreign relations. The A.P. reporting tonight, that the Mexican president is considering canceling his planned trip to meet with President Trump early next week. No doubt there is some scrambling going on where that is concerned right now, joining us on that and a bit more, from Florida this evening, Senior Fox News Political Analyst Brit Hume. Good evening, Brit. Good to see you.


MACCALLUM: Hi, there. Just covering this, right, I mean everyday it's like a fire hose coming out at you with, you know, orders after orders after orders, things being signed. Can he keep this up and he would have you ever seen anything like this?

HUME: This is the fastest start I've ever seen any president to making. Particularly so when you take note of the fact that only a couple of his cabinet offices are now in place. But it does appear that he and his team were sort are prepared for these first few days and had these actions that he has taken heat up and ready to go. This verse of the pattern of Trump the businessman, where he works as fast as he can, although, when he is slowed by whatever problems may arise, he is utterly relentless, so I think as much of this that he can mount will be in store for us as we go.

MACCALLUM: Such a dizzying pace that I think reporters has a tough time keeping up with it. Then, we throw in some of the other stuff that he throws in there about voting and whether it is voter fraud and you can feel people's heads about to snap off. What about Democrats? What you think their reaction is to all of this?

HUME: Well, you know I think they are in a situation where a huge portion of their constituency is telling them as a sign on the crane said today, from Greenpeace, "resist," so far, they are resisting however they can. They don't have the votes to stop cabinet nominations. So they are slowing them down. Partly, I think they would tell you. That's payback for the fact that the president Supreme Court nomination didn't get -- President Obama's Supreme Court nomination, Merrick Garland, was never acted upon by the Republican-controlled senate. And I think this is a little payback. I think they are working through how they're going to deal with this man. Their constituents want them to resist, the Democrats, but on the other hand, Democrats came out today with a huge laundry list of infrastructure projects that they want done and President Trump wants to do a lot of construction stuff, too. They may come and that sense, be looking for opportunities to work with him they think they can.

MACCALLUM: I'm fascinated by this situation with Mexico, because today, some of the top dignitaries for Mexico came over and met, we understands it was Steve Bannon and some other top advisors to Donald Trump. And then, Trump went out and came up with the portables and everything else that they talked about today and he said he can't wait to work more with Mexico. But the A.P. is reporting tonight, that Pena Nieto is under some pretty steep pressure at home and folks are saying, look, we don't like the way our we are being treated over there, we think you ought to consider canceling this. How does that go down on in the west wing?

HUME: Well I'm sure that goes as a possible disappointment in the west wing, but you can hardly blame the Mexican president. I mean this steps of the president outlined today, although they are preliminary, but they certainly point to a direction, are not going to go to down well with the Mexican voters. So the president down there is put in a position where he looks like a wimp if he appears to be acquiescing in all this. So, he puts out orders that he is considering canceling visit. He might end up cancelling it. I think he had to do something. And I think this is perhaps a lesson for the Trump people that the actions and the statements of the president of the United States affect all the internal policies of the United States, but they can also have a profound effect, as well, on the internal politics of other countries and in this case Mexico.

MACCALLUM: We know the president was the art of the deal and negotiations, so we will see what he throws and may be a tweet tonight an all of that, we'll see. Brit, thank you, great to see you tonight.

HUME: You bet, Martha. Thank you.

MACCALLUM: So also, tonight, with President Trump calling for an investigation into voter fraud, we reached out to one of the folks who could be the key, to that effort, Catherine Engelbrecht of true the vote, joins us next.


MACCALLUM: The controversial call today from President Trump for an investigation into voter fraud. This morning, he tweeted this. "I will be asking for a new major investigation into voter fraud, including those registered to voting two states. Those who are illegal, and even those registered to vote who are dead and for a long time." depending on results, we will strengthen our voting procedures. Trace Gallagher has more on this from our west coast bureau. Hi, Trace.

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Martha, despite the president's attorney saying he already filed court documents stating the 2016 general election was not quote, tainted by fraud or mistake Donald Trump is vowing to fully investigate what he says or 3-5 million ballots illegally cast. You hit that 3-5 million numbers, Trump is alleging massive fraud on free fronts, voter registering in more than one state, dead people and illegal immigrants. For the first two, President Trump cites a 2012 study by the pew research center, which led to this back and forth on World News Tonight. Watch.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What you are presented so far has been debunked. It has been called false.

TRUMP: Take a look at the pew reports.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I called the author of the pew report last night and he told me that they found no evidence of voter fraud.

TRUMP: Why did they write the report?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They said no evidence of voter fraud.

TRUMP: Excuse me, then why did they write the report?


GALLAGHER: That pew report show that the time that 1.8 million dead people were still registered to vote and an additional 2.7 million living people were registered in more than one state. But the report showed no evidence that any of the deceased actually cast ballots or that anyone else voted more than once. As for illegal immigrants, the Trump administration has mentioned in 2014 "Washington Post" article that cited a cooperative congressional election study claiming more than 6 percent of noncitizens voted in 2008 and considering there are some 20 million illegal immigrants in the U.S., 6 percent is a lot of votes. The problem is, the group that supplies the numbers for that study disputes the results and says the likely percent of noncitizens who voted is zero. Martha.

MACCALLUM: Wow. All right Trace, thank you very much. Joining us now, Catherine Engelbrecht as founder and president of True the Vote and Robert Zimmerman is a Democratic Strategist, welcome to both of you, good to have you here tonight.


MACCALLUM: Catherine, I read a bunch of reports today about, you know different arguments for how you can cobble together, numbers that might get to the 1 million range potentially for people who are falling into that category who shouldn't be voting, who are voting. You look at this all the time. Do you have a good argument for it?

CATHERINE ENGELBRECHT, TRUE THE VOTE FOUNDER AND PRESIDENT: You know, here is my argument, not enough research exists. There should be a priority. Everything we do presupposes a free and fair election. Let's stop and just take a look, either prove it up or dispel the myth, but let's settle it, once and for all. We can do that.

MACCALLUM: And how do we do it?

ENGELBRECHT: The technology certainly exists. What we need to do is resolve for the identity, residency, and citizenship of every registered voter. Figure out if the information on the roll is accurate. If it's not, correct it. Then, provide solutions moving forward so that Americans are confident that when they cast their vote, it is going to count.

MACCALLUM: And Georgia and Indiana, you need voter I.D. Some people think that, you know, what President Trump is doing is sort of throwing this big number out there, Robert, so he could get this conversation started and that he could do the kind of study data Catherine is talking about and actually get to the bottom of what the truth is.

ZIMMERMAN: Well the truth has been well established. That is not even in question amongst the majority of our states that have Republican governors. They disputed what the White House has claimed. In fact, the very sources that the White House quotes to justify their positions, those authors of those studies have also said the White House is misinterpreted their position and in fact, those authors of those studies point out that there is not an issue of voter fraud. For that matter, the president's own election, make that case.

MACCALLUM: You don't think that there are people who are registered in two different states, the names of dead people on rolls, that kind of stuff has been going on since Lyndon Johnson ran for senate in Texas. You honestly don't think that ever happens?

ZIMMERMAN: Martha, there is actually the case that people are registered at more than one state. You can start with the Steve Mnuchin, the president own nominee for Secretary of the Treasury and the President's Chief Counsel Steve Bannon who are also both registered in more than one state. That doesn't mean that they are committing voter fraud and voting in two different states.

ENGELBRECHT: That -- that points to the brokenness of the problem.

ZIMMERMAN: I beg your pardon.

ENGELBRECHT: That points to the brokenness of the system.

ZIMMERMAN: Quite to the contrary, Catherine. What it shows the validity of our system is the fact that every study the White House has referred to, point outs that there is not election fraud.

MACCALLUM: Here's what happens. When Democrats lose elections, they claim that there was something funny going on, the polling booths or people or double voting in all of these things. Republicans won elections in fact, Catherine in Michigan, when Joel Stein launch that effort, the Trump campaign said there was absolutely no voter fraud whatsoever and Michigan. Everyone seems to like the story when it suits them, no?

ENGELBRECHT: You are exactly right. That is why I say, let's put all the cards on the table. We have the technology to do it. I think we can all agree that only eligible citizens should be registered and voting. Let's just clean it up and let's move on.

MACCALLUM: I couldn't agree more. I don't know what everyone is afraid about. The president wants to launch an investigation. Robert, why wouldn't you want to? Don't you want to know? This is the most important right that we have as U.S. citizens. Let's figure it out.

ZIMMERMAN: The reason you see, Martha, Republicans and Democrats and congress coming together and saying this is not a priority or a legitimate issue, including the Speaker of the House, for that matter. In fact, the president's own Chief of Staff, Reince Priebus, did not document what the president said is because we have confidence and integrity of our democracy, served as well. Nothing is more dangerous than undermining at what these false rumors and false stories.

MACCALLUM: I got to go. Robert and Catherine, thank you very much. All right, so what did the Dow Jones do today? For investors, this is incredible, right. 20,000, we are going to show you what everybody is saying about that and what it means going forward when we come back.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It will be a global market shock tomorrow, the world engage an eclectic financial freak out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Global markets are roiling quite a bit. That gives you a sense of how global financial markets are most likely going to respond if it is the case that Donald Trump pulls out a victory tonight and is declared the president of United States.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What we saw happen in the stock market is happening at the hearts of Americans. They are afraid Donald Trump has to address that.


MACCALLUM: Oh, my, my, my, awful. Those are bleak collection tonight's predictions over the disaster in Wall Street, after Donald Trump took office. But today, for the first time in its history, the Dow Jones industrial surpassed 20,000 my friends. Here is Steve Forbes, Chairman of Board at Forbes Media. Steve, that was the end of the earth there on election night.

STEVE FORBES, CHAIRMAN AND EDITOR IN CHIEF OF FORBES MEDIA: It was and quickly dissipated, because markets quickly realized President Trump, then President-Elect Trump was going to follow through on deregulation, tax cuts, and fundamentally overhauling health care in a positive way. He certainly has followed through on the deregulatory side. Those two pipelines are a great example of it. He wants a big tax cut, as well. One of the things that investors have to watch out for Martha is to make sure Republicans don't mess up that tax cut with a big tax increase. They wanted 20 percent of national's sales tax, which will hit working Americans, middle-class Americans, to finance other parts of the tax cut. Don't put in a new tax. The color of the border adjusted tax. Don't put in a new tax that will hit working-class Americans. Make it a pure tax cut, like President Trump proposed in the campaign. You do that, this rally will continue.

MACCALLUM: Do you think he will cut spending?

FORBES: I think he is going to rein in spending. He is already appointed cabinet officers who will have a good idea of how to do it. Both deregulation on the spending side, and the key thing is to get Republicans geared up in the house and in the senate to get the bloat out of the federal budget. They keep talking about it, but now it is time to get it done. That is why they shouldn't put in a new tax to finance the tax cuts. They should go after the bloat. No national sales tax, go after the bloat. By golly, this economy is going to home and so is the stock market.

MACCALLUM: By golly, we will see. Steve Forbes, good to see you, sir thank you.

FORBES: Thank you.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How old are you?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No hedging, how old do I look?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why hedge? How old do I look?





MACCALLUM: Oh, gosh. Today, we say good-bye to the charming and talented Mary Tyler Moore. She came into our homes, she made us laugh. She inspired some of us to want to work in a newsroom with all the guys like Mr. Grant. She was always soft, human and touching. And we all feel like we knew Mary Tyler Moore, right? The quote of the night comes from her. "Take chances. Make mistakes. That is how you grow. Pain nourishes your courage. You have to fail in order to practice being brave." Thank you, brave Mary. We miss you already.


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