This is a rush transcript from “Tucker Carlson Tonight” October 27, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.


We're going to devote the entire next hour to a single interview, something 
we've never done before. In this case, it's a conversation with a man 
called Tony Bobulinski.  

Bobulinski is the former business partner of James and Hunter Biden, of 
course, the brother and the son of the current Democratic candidate.  

A lot has been written about Hunter and James Biden recently, but our story 
is not about them tonight, sleazy and shocking as some of those details 
are. The story we're about to tell you is instead about Joe Biden, the man 
who just days from now could be elected President of the United States.  

Joe Biden, and we can tell you this with certainty, had direct personal 
involvement with his family's business dealings in Communist China and 
likely in other countries as well. The former Vice President, of course, 
has vehemently denied that. He is lying. Tonight, we can prove that.  

Before we begin, a word about Tony Bobulinski.  

Bobulinski is not a conventional whistleblower. He has no political agenda, 
to the extent he has supported candidates in the past, he has given 
exclusively to Democrats; nor is he seeking money now from this story.  

This is not a shakedown of the Bidens or of anyone else. Bobulinski is 
already rich, significantly rich. He is a significant figure in American 
finance. And that's exactly why the Biden family sought him out in the 
first place. They had no idea how to structure the deals they hoped to cash 
in on, so they enlisted Tony Bobulinski to do it for them to do the math.  

Now, they are attacking him as an agent of Russian disinformation and 
that's why Bobulinski is appearing on this show. It is an effort to clear 
his family's name of that slur. He had no choice.  

The rest of the national media have suppressed his story. Reporters have 
ignored -- intentionally ignored, and in many cases, dishonesty distorted 
scores of documents proving that Bobulinski's account is true.  

Never in American history, have more power centers in this country aligned 
to kill a legitimate news story in the days before an election. That's 
what's happening right now.  

If you're looking for a real threat to our democracy, an actual threat, 
you're watching it unfold. We're seeing it firsthand.  

Last night, we experienced an extraordinary attempt to interfere with our 
reporting on the Biden family. We'll bring you details on that soon.  

But for now, here is Tony Bobulinski's story. We recorded this interview 
with him a few hours ago in a hotel in Los Angeles.  


CARLSON:  So Tony, your connection to this deal came through James Gilliar, 
who is an English businessman who you -- correct me, if I'm wrong -- you 
had met while doing business in various different countries you talked 
about doing deals.  

Then on Christmas Eve, 2015, he sent you the following text, which 
explained the deal with China that he wanted you to become part of, and I 
just want to read the first sentence of this. "There will be a deal between 
one of the most prominent families from the U.S. and them constructed by 


CARLSON:  Tell me what he was saying.  

BOBULINSKI:  So James Gilliar was referencing something that he had been 
working on throughout 2015 with Rob Walker and a Chinese company called 
CEFC, and he had been traveling around the world developing that deal, and 
that text was just the culmination of him making me aware that the deal was 
moving forward.  

CARLSON:  So he doesn't say, I want to do a deal with you and me and Hunter 
Biden, or even you, me, Hunter Biden, and Jim Biden. He said, between one 
of the most prominent families from the United States. He is talking with 
the Biden family.  

BOBULINSKI:  Yes, that's correct. It was never about Hunter Biden or Jim 
Biden. It was about the family name, the Biden legacy.  

CARLSON:  At this point, Joe Biden was the sitting Vice President of the 
United States.  

BOBULINSKI:  Yes, that's correct.  

CARLSON:  Okay, so I want to fast forward to 2017, early May, 2017. And, at 
this point, you've agreed to become part of this deal. Hunter Biden, Jim 
Biden, the Vice President's brother, James Gilliar, and they are asking you 
to meet with the former Vice President in Los Angeles. Describe the 
context. Describe why they wanted you to meet with him.  

BOBULINSKI:  Okay. Across those days in Los Angeles, in May of 2017 that 
you're referencing, I met with Hunter Biden multiple times at the Chateau 
Marmont, and Rob Walker. And the discussion was they wanted me to sit down 
with their father, just to meet him and at a high level, discuss the Biden 
family and how they approached things.  

CARLSON:  Let me ask you to pause. Will you explain to us who Rob Walker 

BOBULINSKI:  Yes. Rob Walker was a partner in Rosemont Seneca and had a 
very close relationship with the Biden family and had developed and been 
working with James Gilliar throughout 2015 and 2016 to develop this deal 
with the Chinese and CEFC.  

CARLSON:  What was his relationship with the Biden family?  

BOBULINSKI:  So my understanding is, Rob had worked in prior 
administrations and had a very, very close relationship. In fact, in Rob 
Walker's own words, in an e-mail to me, he states that, you know, everyone 
was contributing or telling me how they wanted to participate in Sinohawk.  

And in an e-mail, he basically states in his own words, to me, I want to 
continue acting as a proxy for Hunter Biden, Jim Biden and the Bidens 
around the world.  

CARLSON:  The Biden family.  

BOBULINSKI:  The Biden family.  

CARLSON:  So they wanted you to meet with the former Vice President in LA. 
How did that play out?  

BOBULINSKI:  Yes. That's correct. The former Vice President was flying in 
and we were to meet at the Beverly Hilton. The Milken Conference was going 
on, obviously, one of the top three conferences in the world for anybody 
that is a global investor or developing different humanitarian causes and a 
variety of things.  

CARLSON:  Yes.  

BOBULINSKI:  And he was -- Joe was flying in to speak about the cancer 
moonshot stuff he was working on, and Hunter and everyone was in town, and 
they wanted to coordinate me meeting with Joe.  

And so it was set up for the night of May 2nd at the Beverly Hilton. I 
first met with Hunter Biden and Jim Biden, and just had a -- you know, 
light discussion where they briefed me that, listen, you know, my dad is on 
the way. And, you know, we won't go into too much detail on the business 
front. But we'll just spend time talking at a high level about you, your 
background, the Biden family, and then, you know, he has got to get some 
rest because he is speaking at the conference in the morning.  

CARLSON:  So this was at night, the Vice President just flown across the 
country. He is an older man. He has got work to do.  

BOBULINSKI:  Correct.  

CARLSON:  But they carved out a piece of his schedule for you to meet with 
him. Why would they do that?  

BOBULINSKI:  Because they were sort of wining and dining me and presenting 
the strength of the Biden family to get me more engaged and want to take on 
this CEO role, and you know, developed Sinohawk both in the United States 
and around the world, in partnership with CEFC.  

And I, as you can imagine, I've been asked by a hundred people over the 
last month, you know, why would you be meeting with Joe Biden? And I sort 
of turn the question around to the people that asked me, why at 10:38, on 
the night of May 2nd would Joe Biden take time out of his schedule, to sit 
down with me in a dark bar at the Beverly Hilton, sort of positioned behind 
a column so people couldn't see us, to have a discussion about his family 
and my family, and business at a very high level, where Jim Biden sat and 
Hunter Biden participated in.  

I'm irrelevant in the story. They weren't raising money from me. There was 
no other reason for me to be in that bar meeting Joe Biden than to discuss 
what I was doing with his family's name and the Chinese, CEFC.  

CARLSON:  He is -- and this is a company with direct connections to the 
communist government of China. So the former Vice President has said he had 
no knowledge whatsoever of his son's business dealings and was not involved 
in them at all. But this sounds like direct involvement in them.  

BOBULINSKI:  Yes, that's a blatant lie. When he states that that is a 
blatant lie. Obviously, the world is aware that I attended the debate last 
Thursday. And in that debate, he made a specific statement around questions 
around this from the President.  

And I'll be honest with you, I almost stood up and screamed "liar" and 
walked out because I was shocked that after four days or five days that 
they prepped for this that the Biden family is taking that position to the 

And once again, I'm irrelevant in this discussion. I just was brought in to 
run this company and have been exposed to all of this fact. And I believe 
the American people should see this fact.  

I would have much preferred the Biden family go on record and define these 
facts for the American people and the globe versus me sitting here having a 
discussion with you on it.  

CARLSON:  So Joe Biden has not denied meeting with you in Los Angeles, 

BOBULINSKI:  Correct.  

CARLSON:  Tell us about the conversation that you had with him.  

BOBULINSKI:  So I initially was sitting, because I got there a little 
earlier, I was sitting with Jim Biden and Hunter Biden, and Joe came 
through the lobby with his security. And Hunter basically said, hey, give 
me a second. I'll go over and give me 10 minutes to brief my dad and read 
him in on things.  

And so then Hunter and his father and security came through the bar, and 
obviously, I stood up out of respect to shake his hand and Hunter 
introduced me as, "This is Tony, dad, the individual I told you about 
that's helping us with the business that we're working on and the Chinese."  

CARLSON:  So it was clear to you that Joe Biden's son had told him about 
this business.  

BOBULINSKI:  Crystal clear.  

CARLSON:  Crystal clear. Tell us what the conversation that subsequently 
occurred between you and Joe Biden.  

BOBULINSKI:  So the conversation as you're well aware, Tucker, I grew up 
the son of a career Naval officer, so the President of the United States 
was always the Commander-in-Chief, whether they were a Democrat or a 
Republican or other. And so I had the highest respect for Joe and, you 
know, the office that he had held, and so I stood up and shook his hand.  

And obviously, we sat down and I think ordered some drinks. I think Jim 
Biden was hungry and might have ordered some food. And, you know, Joe asked 
me to talk about my background and my family. He thanked me for my service. 
I'm obviously very proud of that, proud of my brother's service and my 
grandfather's service.  

And then he walked through sort of his family. You know, obviously, some of 
the tragedies they've dealt with, his political career at a high level. You 
know, we didn't go into too much detail on business, because prior to Joe 
showing up, Hunter and Jim had coached me, listen, we won't go into too 
much detail here, so just a high level discussion and meeting.  

So it's not like I was drilling down with Joe about cap tables and details.  

CARLSON:  So you've said that they wanted you to meet Joe Biden, as a way 
to induce you to participate in this deal. You were the actual business guy 
here who had management experience, deal experience. But it also sounds 
like Joe Biden was vetting you to some extent.  

BOBULINSKI:  Yes, of course, like, I didn't request to meet with Joe. They 
requested that I meet with Joe. And, you know, he is putting his -- and 
Hunter says this in writing that was referenced multiple times, they were 
putting their entire family legacy on the line. They knew exactly what they 
were doing.  

They were dealing with a Chinese-owned, you know, enterprise run by 
Chairman Yi, CEFC that had strong financial support and political support 
from the Chinese Communist Party. That's how it was presented to me. That's 
not my own words. That's how they presented it to me and read me in on it, 
and --  

CARLSON:  They being Gilliar and Hunter Biden?  

BOBULINSKI:  They being Hunter Biden, who was very proud of that and taking 
credit for it when I sat with him for two hours on the patio of the Chateau 
Marmont in LA.  

CARLSON:  Proud that they were doing a deal with the Chinese Communist 

BOBULINSKI:  Well, proud that they were -- that he had the relationship 
with Chairman Yi, who was running CEFC and the ability for them to get 
deals done around the world and stuff like that.  

CARLSON:  You've seen a number of journalists and reporters covering the 
story, including some who should know better, declare triumphantly that no 
document you've released connects the former Vice President to this deal. 
How do you react to that? What's your answer to it?  

BOBULINSKI:  So you can imagine what I've been through over the last couple 
of months, and knowing all this to be fact and watching Joe Biden and his 
family and their lawyers trot around the world stating that there was no 
involvement or even at the debate, Joe Biden referenced that you've seen my 
tax returns, and there's no money from foreign, you know, enterprise in 

I want to simplify this for the American people as much as I can. On May 
13th, that e-mail was sent from James Gilliar to me. I didn't generate that 
email, James Gilliar generated that e-mail.  

And in that e-mail, James Gilliar goes through intimate detail of what each 
individual's requests were from a compensation perspective, and how the 
equity in the enterprise would be divvied up. Very important. May 13th. 
That e-mail was generated by somebody else to me.  

In that e-mail, there's a statement where they go through the equity Jim 
Biden has referenced as you know, 10 percent, it doesn't say Biden, it says 
Jim, and then it has 10 percent for the big guy held by H.  

I a thousand percent sit here and know that the big guy is referencing Joe 
Biden. That's crystal clear to me because I lived it. I met with the former 
Vice President in person multiple times, and I had been meeting and talking 
with Hunter Biden and Jim Biden and Rob Walker and James Gilliar.  

What the media has tried to hide and I personally feel it's disgusting, is 
between that May 13th e-mail and the final document that was executed 
called Oneida Holdings, LLC.  

In Oneida Holdings, LLC, the equity is broken up 20 percent Hunter Biden 
and 20 percent Jim Biden -- well, there are LLCs that represented them.  

CARLSON:  Right.  

BOBULINSKI:  Twenty percent James Gilliar, 20 percent Rob Walker and 20 
percent me and my investment entity. What I'd ask the American people to 
read and look at is how from May 13th to the final night, a document that 
got executed, did Jim Biden go from a 10 percent owner to a 20 percent 

That's not my question to answer. I'm sure there were discussions within 
the Biden family. I wasn't privy to that discussion. But this is Jim Biden, 
the brother of the potential future President of the United States.  

It's not a distant cousin. It's not an employee. It's his brother, who in 
documents, defines himself as a political adviser to his brother. And so 
I'll leave that to the American people to answer that. But I don't 
understand how the American journalist is allowing that gap to be even 
talked about and defined.  

CARLSON:  So -- and I should say, and I want to put the document on the 
screen, in his pitch to the Chinese, his bio, Jim Biden describes himself 
as an advisor, current advisor to his brother. So was it clear to you from 
the beginning that what Jim Biden was bringing to this deal was his 
relationship with Joe Biden?  

BOBULINSKI:  Yes, a thousand percent. Crystal clear.  

After I met with Joe Biden, the morning of May 3rd at the Milken Conference 
and then was taken backstage after Joe had spoken. You know, we joked 
around for about 10 minutes, 15 minutes, and then I walked him out to his 

I think he was -- I think they referenced he was off to see the Lieutenant 

CARLSON:  This is Joe Biden.  

BOBULINSKI:  Joe Biden, yes. And then after that, I went over to the 
Peninsula Hotel and I sat with Jim Biden for two hours where Jim Biden 
walked through his history and his own words stating all the work and 
effort he did to get Joe Biden elected initially in Delaware, and then 
through the family history, and the role that he had played in it.  

And in that meeting, remember, I'm the son of a Naval officer, I'm a Naval 
officer -- was a Naval officer myself, and because I held a Q clearance, 
which is the equivalent of a top secret clearance, we're audited every 

So if you receive a gift, I think the barrier was $25.00 -- anything larger 
than $25.00, we had to disclose it to the government because obviously 
anybody with the clearance, the government is watching closely that they 
are not influenced by the Russians, the Iranians, the Chinese and stuff 
like that.  

So as I was listening to Jim walk through this, I have a big heart if you 
talk to anybody who knows me. They would -- they would weigh in on that. 
I'm a kind person. And I'm thinking about the Biden family, like, how are 
they doing this?  

I know Joe decided not to run in 2016. But what if he ran in the future? 
Aren't they taking political risk or headline risk? And I remember looking 
at Jim Biden and saying, "How are you guys getting away with this?" Like, 
"Aren't you concerned?" And he certainly looked at me and he laughed a 
little bit and said, "Plausible deniability."  

CARLSON:  He said that out loud?  

BOBULINSKI:  Yes. He said it directly to me, one on one in a cabana at the 
Peninsula Hotel, after about, you know, an hour and a half to two-hour 
meeting with me asking out of concern, how are you guys doing this? Aren't 
you concerned that you're going to put your brother's future presidential 
campaign at risk? You know, the Chinese, the stuff that you guys have been 
doing already in 2015 and 2016, around the world? And I just can almost 
picture his face where he sort of chuckles and says, you know, "Plausible 

CARLSON:  So he said -- this is a man who has been drafting off his 
brother's political career for almost 50 years. He said to your face, 
essentially, we're lying about it.  

BOBULINSKI:  Anyone watching this interview can look up what plausible 
deniability means, and the definition is very distinct.  

CARLSON:  That's remarkable. So I just want to back up a second, just to be 
clear, you met with Joe Biden twice?  

BOBULINSKI:  Yes, that's correct.  

CARLSON:  What did he say to you after he gives his speech at the Milken 
Conference? And by the way, this is all checkable. Right?  


CARLSON:  I mean, that was a public event. You can Google it.  

BOBULINSKI:  Well, you can go to Milken. They had to issue me -- I didn't -
- I wasn't attending Milken, so they had to issue me special credentials. A 
whole team walked out into the valet of the Beverly Hilton and walked me 
into that speech that he gave and sat me at the head table on front of 

So this is more than checkable. I'm sure there's photos or documentation 
and stuff.  

CARLSON:  Yes, the press corps doesn't seem to be rushing to verify this.  


CARLSON:  It's checkable because it's true, and the fact you may be hearing 
some of it for the first time here tells you everything about the lying the 
rest of us have been subjected to for the past six weeks.  

When we come back, Tony Bobulinski will tell us what he and Joe Biden 
discussed as they were backstage in Los Angeles at the Milken Conference in 
May of 2017 and he will respond directly to claims by the former Vice 
President and many other Democrats that he is working against American 
interests for a hostile foreign power. That's straight ahead.  


CARLSON:  We just showed you the first 20 minutes of our interview a few 
hours ago with Tony Bobulinski, a well-known international businessman who 
was asked by the Biden family to do business with them in China. He met 
with the former Vice President Joe Biden two separate times and they talked 
about the China business deal.  

Now this information has been out for several weeks. It's been in the hands 
of a number of different news organizations. The reason you're hearing a 
lot of this for the first time tonight on this show, is because they have 
resolutely ignored it and tried to suppress the story.  

Joe Biden has rarely been asked about it, though there is an enormous 
amount of detail and documentation that no one has refuted because it's 

This topic did come up because the President pushed it at last week's 
presidential debate. And what was notable was that Joe Biden didn't deny 
any specifics about his connections to the Chinese Communist Party, his 
family doing business there; he himself participating in that business.  

Instead, Biden dismissed the entire story out of hand and suggested that 
Tony Bobulinski, who is a veteran, a former Naval officer, was part of a 
Russian disinformation campaign aimed at this country. His evidence for 
that? Well, there wasn't any.  

Instead he cited a letter from quote, "54 former National Intelligence 
folks," almost all of them partisans, every one of them a liar. None of 
them had directly assessed the information, not one of them called Tony 
Bobulinski. They knew nothing.  

Joe Biden said that onstage. And so when we spoke to Tony Bobulinski, we 
asked him his reaction to that. And here's what he said.  


CARLSON:  Tell me what the conversation that you had with Joe Biden, what 
did he say to you?   

BOBULINSKI:  You mean, the morning after we spoke?  

CARLSON:  That's right.  

BOBULINSKI:  They just -- it was -- there was 10 people running around 
giving him something to drink and we were backstage in a cramped space and 
he asked me to walk with him out to the car. And he just asked, you know, 
how I did and what I thought of his speech. And I thought you did a great 
job in the speech. And obviously, cancer is a very serious thing that we 
should all be working together to solve. I just lost a sister in law within 
the last two weeks, sadly to cancer, and then he just sort of asked me to 
keep an eye on his son and his brother.  

CARLSON:  What do you think he meant by that?  

BOBULINSKI:  I think he was conscious of things. And, you know, I can't 
speak for him.  

CARLSON:  Right.  

BOBULINSKI:  I would love for him to go on record. You know, as I 
referenced earlier, I'm only sitting here because they have not -- not only 
have they not gone on record, they've denied it and they have tarred my 
family name having a long history of serving this country, and have other 
congressmen now talking about Russian disinformation.  


REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA):  This whole smear on Joe Biden comes from the 


BOBULINSKI:  I held a top secret clearance from the N.S.A. and the D.O.E. I 
served this country for four years in one of the most elite environments in 
the world, Naval Nuclear Power Training Command, and to have a Congressman 
out there speaking about Russian disinformation or Joe Biden at a public 
debate referencing Russian disinformation, when he knows he sat face-to-
face with me that I was traveling around the world with his son and his 
brother, to say that and associate that with my name is absolutely 
disgusting to me.  

CARLSON:  Have you -- did you complain about that? I mean, to suggest that 
you were committing treason or a part of a foreign attack on our democracy, 
which is how they characterized it. I mean, that's such a serious and I 
think unfair charge. Did you bring this up with them?  

BOBULINSKI:  Well, in basic form, you're exactly right. They are publicly 
accusing me of treason right now, treating me like I'm insignificant, or 
the 50 years of history that my family served this country is 
insignificant. And that's why I'm sitting here having this. I assure you, 
this is the absolute last place I want to be right now and the last thing I 
want to be doing right now.  

But I feel like I have a patriotic duty to this country and every American 
citizen to go on record and define the facts for them, and let them do 
their own work. Let them decide how they view those facts or not, but for 
the Biden family to deny these facts, and then not only deny them, they 
could have just said, "No comment."  

But they didn't say "no comment." They then brought in Russian 
disinformation and basically associated my name with that, which is 
absolutely disgusting to me and I had to go on the record.  

Last weekend, I was in Virginia. Sally, my sister-in-law passed away, at 
around, I think, 6:38 Saturday morning. That's the wife of my brother who 
spent 28 years serving this country as a Naval flight officer and just 
retired. So you can imagine me dealing with that and the tragedy of that.  

When I saw Adam Schiff go on record, talking about Russian disinformation 
after this e-mail had been posted online by "The New York Post" and 
remember that e-mail was to me from James Gilliar, right. It wasn't, you 
know, I wasn't blind carboned or CC'ed on that. It was to me stating that I 
was going to be the CEO of this enterprise. I had -- I was at the end of my 

And so I called Rob Walker, and I told him that if that statement isn't 
retracted by Congressman Schiff by midnight on Sunday then I was going on 
record, and I was disclosing all the facts to the American government, to 
the American citizens, and the world.  

I was hoping the Bidens would do the right thing or Schiff would retract 
his statement, but I could not allow another minute, another hour or a day 
for my family's name to be associated or muddied up around Russian 

So even as I sit here today, I would ask the Biden family to come on record 
and stop using my name or associating it with Russian disinformation. It's 
absolutely disgusting.  

CARLSON:  So this is Rob Walker, the representative of the Biden family, I 
believe his wife worked for the Biden family, apparently.  

So you said this to him. I won't go public. I just want them to retract the 
accusation that I'm an instrument of Russian disinformation, what did he 

BOBULINSKI:  That's correct. Rob was under a tremendous amount of stress.  

CARLSON:  Right.  

BOBULINSKI:  Obviously, he has a wife and a child. And he said, listen, let 
me make some calls. Let me call George, who is Hunter Biden's lawyer and 
see what I can do. But he sort of presented it as if that's going to be 
impossible for me to get done. And, you know, I'm not naive. I know, that's 
not impossible to do.  

That's a single phone call from Joe Biden to Adam Schiff saying, basically 
go on record and retract your statement. You got over your skis. And when -
- you know, I was up late at night, and when the statement wasn't 
retracted, come Monday morning, I was ready to go on record.  

And what -- how that record was, I was willing to go in front of any 
senator, any congressman, the Department of Justice, the F.B.I., or sit 
here with you, Tucker, and basically provide the facts to the American 
people and let them make their decision.  

This isn't a political focus of mine. People are accusing my family of 
treason after I served this country and defended this country.  

CARLSON:  So the reason you wound up here in this interview, and I just 
want to affirm for our audience, I don't think you had any desire to do 
this interview.  

BOBULINSKI:  Absolutely no desire.  

CARLSON:  Is because nobody else told your story. So were you surprised 
given the trove of documents you have, given the credibility that I think 
is apparent that you have that no other news organization took the time to 
unpack the story?  

BOBULINSKI:  Surprise is probably an understatement of the year. Shocked, 
because it would be different if this was my word against Jim Biden, Hunter 
Biden and Joe Biden.  

CARLSON:  Right.  

BOBULINSKI:  That would be a very slippery slope, not something I would 
take the personal and family risk on it. But I've provided more documents 
and facts that validate times, meetings, who participated, that e-mail to 
me on May 13th was generated by somebody else sent to me. It wasn't me 
generating these text messages that I've provided or Hunter Biden in the 
first person, Jim Biden in the first person, James Gilliar in the first 
person, Rob Walker in the first person.  

It is not me generating the text messages. It's them speaking. So you can 
interview them, the F.B.I. can interview them or our government can 
interview them. But I was shocked that not only the media is not only 
discussing this, they are going to the other extreme, they are dismissing 
it as Russian disinformation.  

This country has heard enough about Russia. We went through three years of 
every day, Russia, Russia, Russia. It's just absurd. The Cold War is over.  

CARLSON:  And they are saying it about your family?  


CARLSON:  The Biden family knew that you are going public with this, and 
you spoke to Rob Walker about it, again, the self-described Biden family 
representative and Biden family, meaning Joe Biden as well. What was his 
response when you let him know that you were going public with this?  

BOBULINSKI:  Trying to coach me, trying to sort of say, hey, we don't want 
to do that. We don't want, you know, press trucks out in front of our 
house. I'm going to have to move. I could lose my job. And all that, you 
know, I'm not trying to cause any harm to anyone in this situation, let 
alone Rob Walker and his family, James Gilliar and his family. But 
basically, Rob's position was if you go on record with all these facts, 
you'll bury all of us.  


BOBULINSKI:  If he doesn't come out on record, I am providing the facts.  

ROB WALKER, BIDEN FAMILY REPRESENTATIVE:  Tony, you're just going to bury 
all of us, man.  


CARLSON:  What was your response to that?  

BOBULINSKI:  I was focused on pushing these guys to do the right thing, to 
demonstrate an ounce of integrity in front of the American people.  

They all know the facts. I live the facts. And luckily for the American 
people, all the facts are extremely well-documented.  

I'm irrelevant in this discussion. So I can write off, but the American 
people can read these texts, listen to the recording that you just played, 
read the legal documents that were executed in Delaware and they can form 
their own conclusion. They don't need me to form the conclusion for them.  

CARLSON:  Give us a sense of your contacts with Hunter Biden. I just -- a 
lot of this is complex. There's a lot that we're not -- and this is 
television, so we're not putting, you know, everything that we have on the 
screen because we can't.  

But for those who might suspect that you don't -- didn't really have a lot 
of contact with Hunter Biden, give us a sense of some of the places where 
you had conversations with him, and over what timeframe?  

BOBULINSKI:  So, obviously, as we already discussed throughout 2015 and 
2016 while Joe was still the sitting Vice President of the United States, 
these guys had been doing extensive work around the world, in places like 
Oman, Luxembourg, Romania, that I was being made aware of, but I obviously 
hadn't come off the bench and agreed to be part of this.  

CARLSON:  I'm sorry, I've got to interrupt you there. Oman, Luxembourg, 

BOBULINSKI:  Correct.  

CARLSON:  So they don't speak any of these languages. Neither one of these 
guys has any record of success in business. Neither one has a background in 
international business, why would they be doing business in Oman, 
Luxembourg and Romania, and Kazakhstan?  

BOBULINSKI:  Because they have relationships and they have the Biden name 
that they are able to set up meetings and get people to jump through hoops 
in an interest to garner favor with the sitting Vice President Joe Biden.  

CARLSON:  So that -- so it sounds like Gilliar is a legitimate business 
guy. You know, someone who is fluent in the language of international 

BOBULINSKI:  Yes, James Gilliar, you know, served his country. He is 

CARLSON:  Yes.  

BOBULINSKI:  He has traveled around the world for decades. He is a very low 
profile individual, but he is sharp, and he is as legitimate as they come.  

CARLSON:  It sounds it. But Hunter Biden and Jim Biden have a well-
documented decades' long record of business disasters. Did you get any 
sense that either one of these guys was qualified to be conducting this 
kind of business?  

BOBULINSKI:  The only qualification they had was the Biden name.  

CARLSON:  But they seemed to have parlayed that into quite a few deals in 
quite a few countries. And I interrupted you, so you may continue with why 
they were doing these deals?  

BOBULINSKI:  Yes. So you had asked, you know, the extent of my 
communication with Hunter Biden. So when I were decided to come off the 
bench and entertain being the CEO of Sinohawk Holdings. Obviously, I was 
brought up to speed on the work that they had been doing in Oman, 
Luxembourg, France, Romania, the Kazakhstan, and stuff like that, because 
that was all going to be integrated into Sinohawk Holdings.  

And so you asked to the extent that I spent time with Hunter Biden? I 
personally was in Bucharest, Romania with Hunter Biden, Jim Biden, James 
Gilliar and Rob Walker. I was in Monaco, for the Annual Grand Prix there. I 
was supposed to sit with Hunter Biden. I met him -- we met on the patio of 
his hotel and I sat there and waited for two hours.  

And you can imagine how angry and I was frustrated after sitting there for 
two hours waiting for him without a text, a phone call to let me know, I 
can't make it or I'm tied up. And in a text that I think you guys are aware 
and saw, the next day, he aggressively comes back at me that he couldn't 
attend the meeting that he himself set up.  

I stepped away from family and friends on the yacht that I was on with my 
friends to go sit with him for a couple hours, and he is effectively 
screaming into the phone that he could not pick up the phone and text me 
because he was with the Ukrainians, and Mykola, the founder of Burisma and 
that he was fighting for the only income he has on the Kazakhstan deal, 
that apparently he negotiated.  

Now, I had no exposure to the Kazakhstan deal. I'm not aware of any of the 
particulars of the Kazakhstan deal. I just know for a fact, there is a 
Kazakhstan deal, because Hunter Biden in first person told me there was in 
the text that I think you guys have and you will show to the American 

It's not my job to determine what that deal is. I'll leave that up to the 
F.B.I. or the Senate and the Congress to figure that out.  

CARLSON:  I just want to restate this. You are not a grifter. You're not 
someone who is selling access. You're a legitimate businessman who has done 
deals in a lot of different countries. So I just want you to assess once 
more: is there anything about Hunter Biden's personal experience or 
personal qualifications that would justify him doing a deal in Kazakhstan?  

BOBULINSKI:  Absolutely nothing. The only thing that he had was the Biden 
family name and the fact that his father, at one point, he was a sitting 
Vice President and potentially would run as a future President.  

CARLSON:  It sounds like a remarkably ambitious international business 
program they had running.  

BOBULINSKI:  Extensive.  

CARLSON:  He and his uncle.  

BOBULINSKI:  Extensive.  

CARLSON:  This is a small point, but I can't get over it. So you saw a 
number of reporters say again in an effort to bat away your story, your 
testimony on this that the chairman referred to in a bunch of these e-mails 
was not Joe Biden. It was in fact the government of China. When you see 
people refer to the chairman thinks this, the chairman thinks that. They're 
talking about China and not Joe Biden.  

So I want to put up on the screen. Here is a text message you received from 
Hunter Biden to you. "Hey, Tony, I have an idea. In light of the fact that 
we are an impasse of sorts in both James' lawyers and my Chairman gave an 
emphatic no, I think we should all meet in Romania on Tuesday next week." 
And so you're hearing reporters say that Chairman was in fact the Chinese 

Here you have Rob Walker, responding to you, clearly there is some 
confusion over this and he is saying, and I'll put this on the screen now. 
When he said -- when Hunter Biden said his Chairman, he was talking about 
his dad.  

BOBULINSKI:  Correct. There's two chairmen in the story. There's Chairman 
Yi, who is the Chairman of CEFC.  

CARLSON:  Yes.  

BOBULINSKI:  And that text from Hunter Biden, he was not talking about the 
Chairman of CEFC and what Hunter is referencing there is he spoke with his 
father, and his father is giving an emphatic no to the ask that I had, 
which was putting proper governance in place around Oneida Holdings.  

CARLSON:  So Joe Biden is vetoing your plan for putting stricter governance 
in the company. I mean, it's right here in the e-mail.  

BOBULINSKI:  Yes, Tucker, I want to be very careful in front of the 
American people. That is not me writing that. That is not me claiming that. 
That is Hunter Biden writing on his own phone typing in that I spoke with 
my Chairman, referencing his father.  

If the world thinks that that my chairman is not his father, then Hunter 
Biden would come forward and go on record and state to the world.  

CARLSON:  But you have the Biden family representative, Rob Walker, saying 
right here, May 19th, "No. When he said his Chairman, he was talking about 
his dad."  

BOBULINSKI:  Exactly.  


CARLSON:  But Joe Biden had no knowledge of any of these business deals. He 
told us that and the press has repeated that message every day since. It is 
a lie and everyone is saying it knows it's a lie.  

Where'd the money go?  

When we return, Tony Bobulinski will explain where the money went. There 
was a lot of it. We'll be right back.  


CARLSON:  So bits and pieces of this story have been out there, and if 
you've been paying close attention, if you have, you may know that in 
September, for example, the two Senate Committees issued a report about a 
series of suspicious overseas financial transactions that involved the 
former Vice President's son.  

But their report did not tell the full story. There was a lot of money here 
and a lot of it flowed to the Biden family. Where did it go? And where did 
it come from? We asked Tony Bobulinski that.  


CARLSON:  Tell me about the money. So in the end, the Chinese did send 
quite a bit of money.  

BOBULINSKI:  Correct.  

CARLSON:  Where did it go?  

BOBULINSKI:  So documents were all executed, you know, after this back and 
forth and the Chinese CEFC Director Zang, who is number three at the 
company worked directly for Chairman Yi and the way it was presented to me 
as a very senior Chinese Communist Party member was assuring me that $10 
million was being sent to our bank account that was set up at JPMorgan 
Chase to basically fund operations and grow the business and that of that 
$10 million, we were capitalizing the business.  

So $5 million of that $10 million was being loaned to Oneida Holdings as a 
non-recourse loan from CEFC, and the other $5 million was coming in CEFC as 
their capitalization of the business because we owned 50/50 in the 

The Chinese and CEFC never viewed me -- I'm insignificant and irrelevant in 
this discussion. To them, it was always the Biden family. It wasn't Hunter 
Biden, it wasn't Jim Biden. It was the Biden family who has obviously led 
and operated by Joe Biden.  

And in a document that you guys have, and I think that has been provided to 
the world, the Chinese reference that because of their trust in the Biden 
family, that Chairman YI and Director Zang are excited about moving forward 
in this, and in that document, they referenced loaning $5 million to the BD 

CARLSON:  Right.  

BOBULINSKI:  The BD family is the Biden family. And notice, they didn't say 
we're loaning that money to Oneida Holdings or we're loaning that money to 
Tony Bobulinski or we are loaning that money to James Gilliar or Rob 
Walker. They, once again, not a document generated by me, a document 
generated by CEFC that they are loaning that money to the Biden family.  

CARLSON:  What are the implications of this going forward? If Joe Biden is 
elected President, which could very well happen? How does this constrain 
his ability to deal with China?  

BOBULINSKI:  Are asking for my personal opinion?  

CARLSON:  I am. I am asking for your opinion as someone who has worked with 
the Chinese?  

BOBULINSKI:  So I think Joe Biden and the Biden family are compromised. 
Obviously, I've referenced that I held a Q clearance, so you're briefed on 
compromise and who you are able to talk with and deal and do business with. 
And I just don't see, given the history here and the facts, how Joe can't 
be influenced in in some manner based on the history that they have here 
with CEFC and stuff like that.  

So as a citizen, and an American taxpayer, I'm very, very concerned.  

CARLSON:  It seems at this point that there is so much documentation. And 
again, we have your documents, the ones that you retained: the text, the e-
mails, and the legal documents, but presumably, there are many others, 
because there are a lot of other people involved in this.  

Is it possible that this stuff just disappears, and nobody covers it for 
the next four years if Biden is elected? I mean, it seems like there's a 
lot of evidence out there.  

BOBULINSKI:  I think the American people should be demanding that this is 
investigated and I don't know what the right party to do that is. Is that 
the D.O.J.? Is that the F.B.I.? Is that Congress? Is that the Senate?  

But there absolutely should be no scenario that this isn't investigated. 
And as you said, I probably have purview into 10 percent, just picking a 
round number of what was actually going on, and I would encourage the 
American people to go online and download, you know, Senator Johnson's 87-
page report after watching this and read pages 65 through 87 and form your 
own conclusion.  

What I've come forward with is a piece in that puzzle that Senator Johnson 
and Senator Grassley did not have. They didn't have it because I hadn't 
gone on record and all of this information and documentation was kept very, 
very tight.  

You ask me if the information disappeared. I would assume -- I would expect 
that other parties have probably destroyed or gotten rid of information. I 
didn't. I have every e-mail, every text, every WhatsApp that was exchanged, 
and I've provided that to the authorities and here I am discussing it.  

CARLSON:  So you learn from the Senate report that the Chinese sent a great 
deal of money. But it didn't go where it was supposed to go, correct?  

BOBULINSKI:  Yes, that's correct. So take the American people back to July 
2017, I was being told by Director Zang, who is a senior executive at CEFC 
that the $10 million was going to be funded in two tranches of $5 million 
and $5 million. Once again, the way they were approaching that is $5 
million was a loan to the Biden family and $5 million was their 
contribution to capitalize Sinohawk Holdings.  

That money didn't come in June. It didn't come in July. And I was in 
Europe, traveling with friends and family and I was frustrated because 
culturally, there's a tendency to, hey, it's coming. It's coming and it 
wasn't coming. So I was very frustrated.  

But also in July of 2017, something that happened is over July 4th week and 
while we were celebrating our Independence Day, President Xi was in Moscow 
meeting Vladimir Putin on an official visit. And in that meeting, and in 
that, you know, multiple days, Director Zang was in Moscow, participating 
in that, and Rosneft media in Russia had leaked to the press that they were 
entertaining selling 14% of Rosneft which is the state owned U.S. 
sanctioned energy company of Russia to CEFC.  

When I saw that leaked,  you can imagine, once again, the clearance I held, 
the military background, I sort of pushed away from the table like, whoa, 
that's -- this is stair stepping things at a level that do I even want to 
be associated with, or do I even want to be near?  

Shortly after that information got out, I was told that Director Zang's 
visa was denied. He could no longer get back into the U.S. for meetings or 
to you know, bring his wife and his kids to go to school in New York and 
that he was denied multiple times.  

Jim Biden confirms that in text. James Gilliar references it. Kevin -- Dong 
Wen-wen (ph) who is the individual that is referenced in Senator Johnson 
Senate report, he went by Kevin, his legal name is Dong Wan Gong (ph) -- 

And so I was sort of walking on eggshells, you know what's going on? You're 
saying this money is going to be funded. It hasn't come in yet, I am sort 
of near the end of my rope here. And then in September, easily validated, 
it's officially announced that CEFC is buying 14 percent of Rosneft, once 
again, the state owned energy company.  

And so at that point, I just sort of pushed away from the table. The money 
hadn't been funded into Sinohawk and I was having daily discussions with 
James Gilliar, you know what's going on here? You know the Biden name -- 
Russia? China? I don't want to be anywhere near this. I've got to 
understand all the moving pieces.  

And so we went into the fall of 2017, very well-documented when Patrick Ho 
who is an employee or an associate of CEFC landed in New York, he was 
detained by the U.S. government and put in jail for corruption, apparently 
for leaving shoe boxes of cash to two African Presidents. And it started 
this downhill spiral of CEFC as a company.  

Remember, President Xi was traveling around the world under the One Belt 
One Road that was their political approach, and CEFC was the capitalistic 
side of the Chinese government doing things that they could do on the 
capitalist side that the government couldn't get done.  

It is very well documented the work that CEFC did in the Middle East and 
Czechoslovakia and Romania, Kazakhstan and Georgia, all over the world.  

When they announced that that they were officially tendering for 14 percent 
of Rosneft, a deal valued at $9 billion, I sort of pushed away from the 
table like, okay, obviously, that's taking priority over this discussion, 
and I just sort of -- I was watching things play out once they detained 
Patrick Ho.  

I did reach out to hunter Biden in October 2017 asking him, hey, listen, 
they haven't funded the $10 million, have you done something that I'm not 
aware of? Have you gone around us? Have you started a parallel discussion 
with Chairman Yi that I should be conscious of?  

And in a variety of text messages that you've been provided and I think the 
American people have been provided, he says, no, I didn't go around you. 
But oh, by the way, I'm acting as the personal attorney to Chairman Yi.  

Now imagine being in my shoes looking at my phone reading this text message 
from Hunter Biden. I just spent six months all out of pocket myself, nobody 
was paying me. I was paying for my own travel, my own meals, my own cars, 
and anything that was needed. And Hunter Biden is now telling me that he is 
meeting personally one-on-one with Chairman Yi in his $50 million penthouse 
in New York and if he can't meet him, he is picking up the phone and 
calling them, but they only discuss things in person.  

You can imagine my anger and frustration there, because then I'm like, oh, 
this has gotten slippery. You have gone around me. What's going on here? 
And oh, by the way, Hunter, you're acting as the personal attorney to 
Chairman Yi while they're tendering for 14 percent of the Russian state-
owned energy company? A deal valued at $9 billion? What am I missing here?  

And he sort of just plays it off. And he said, I'm working on a bunch of 
other personal things, and visas and stuff like that, but doesn't go into a 
lot of detail.  

I'd love for you to ask him that. I'd love the American people to ask what 
those other special things were.  

CARLSON:  You've told your story in a very public way. What do you expect 
the consequences for you and your family will be?  

BOBULINSKI:  So my focus right now is not the consequences on me. I'm 
actually trying to be selfless in this discussion. I think the consequences 
to our country faces that average American voter that's thinking about what 
presidential candidate they picked today or have picked over the prior two 
weeks, or in the future all the way up to the election.  

I'm doing this for them, not for my family, not for any money. I'm doing 
this out of a patriotic duty to our country based on my military 
background, and my grandfather's background. So other people can determine 
the facts and what matters and how they want to vote.  

But I had to go on record, because they chose to sort of mar up my name. So 
I have a former SEAL team protecting my family. I'm not at home right now. 
And I'll travel the next four years if I have to. I had to do this.  

CARLSON:  Are you worried?  

BOBULINSKI:  Of course, I'm worried. I've gotten death threats and calls. 
Obviously, I sat with the F.B.I. They assured me I would more than be 
protected by them when and if needed. But I think, I'll slowly become 
irrelevant in this discussion, because the facts are so powerful and so 
necessary that hopefully I'll just sort of go stage left, and hopefully our 
government and the appropriate people and the Biden family will go on 
record and basically provide facts to the American people.  

CARLSON:  Tony Bobulinski, thank you for talking to us. I appreciate it.  

BOBULINSKI:  Thank you, Tucker, for having me.  


CARLSON:  Tony Bobulinski, 45 minutes, basically unedited. You watched it. 
You can assess it.  

From our perspective, the takeaway is, here is a man the Biden family 
approached to run their business in China. He did what they asked them to 
do. He met with the former Vice President Joe Biden twice to discuss 
business in China. And when it emerged that this happened, they attacked 
him as an agent of Russia.  

I want to thank FOX News for allowing us to put this on the air. This 
information has been out a long time, we were under a lot of pressure not 
to air it and they let us and we are grateful.  

We will see you tomorrow.  

Here is Sean.  

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