This is a partial transcript from "Hannity & Colmes," August 3, 2005, that has been edited for clarity.
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SEAN HANNITY, CO-HOST:But first, on July 5, best-selling author Bernie Goldberg released his blockbuster hit, "100 People Who are Screwing up America." Bob Beckel is not on the list. The book has been enormously successful and now Goldberg says he's under attack from the mainstream media. So is he a victim of a smear campaign? Bernie Goldberg joins us now.
Bernie, we had you the night you released your book. By the way, why are you on "The New York Times" list? Where'd you get to?
BERNIE GOLDBERG, AUTHOR, "100 PEOPLE WHO ARE SCREWING UP AMERICA": This Sunday it will be No. 2.
HANNITY: And how many weeks on the list now?
GOLDBERG: That will be the fourth week.
HANNITY: And what other number were you?
GOLDBERG: Six, five and two — I'm sorry, third week. Six, five and two.
HANNITY: OK. Congratulations.
GOLDBERG: Thank you.
HANNITY: I read the book cover to cover. It's a great book.
GOLDBERG: Thanks. Thanks, Sean.
HANNITY: How is the rest of the media treating you?
GOLDBERG: Well, thank God for cable television, talk radio and the Internet. Because most of the mainstream — so-called mainstream networks, except for one, "The Today Show" has invited me on, which probably will happen, these are not ideas that they want to deal with. And I have no constitutional right to be on any show, so I don't complain about that.
GOLDBERG: But they sort of lose their right to say that they don't have any biases or agendas. Because, obviously, if the book is No. 2 on "The New York Times" list, the message, the central message that the culture is getting meaner, angrier and more vulgar, it must be resonating with lots and lots of people who watch network news.
GOLDBERG: They don't have any interest in the subject.
HANNITY: Bernie, it's a great book. You know something? Because I've watched these shows almost every day. I'm flipping around, seeing what they're doing in the morning. I'm up early, get my kids out to school or go to camp or whatever.
And what's fascinating to me is I know that on "The Today Show," that Michael Moore, not only was he there for one segment. He was held over for a second segment on the show.
Al Franken, a heavily partisan book. He lies in the book about me, I know. He's invited on these programs.
You know, I'm not saying they should not invite them. Let them say whatever they want. But in fairness, why can't you be invited to express your point of view, which is your — now this is the third "The New York Times" best seller you've had. You've had No. 1 "New York Times" best sellers. Why wouldn't they fight to have you on?
GOLDBERG: As I said, "The Today Show" has. So I thank them and I give them credit for that.
But the others, they think that if they don't discuss certain ideas, the ideas are going to go away. "Bias," my first book, should have taught them a lesson. And that is that they could ignore it all they want, but millions and millions of Americans who live between Manhattan and Malibu aren't going to ignore it.
And while the big networks continue to lose viewers, they just arrogantly say, well, there are certain subjects that we won't discuss, and this is one.
HANNITY: Are you getting any negative — are you getting any negative feedback from the people you write about in the book? Have you gotten any word back?
GOLDBERG: Say that again? Say that again, Sean?
HANNITY: Have you heard from any of the people that are on your list?
GOLDBERG: Yes. I mean, look, obviously, the people I've heard from who are on the list, I have heard indirectly aren't too happy about being on the list. That certainly is fair enough.
There are two people in the whole country who are going to agree with all of the names on the list. I mean, the people I put on the list are different from the names that Bob Beckel, for instance, would put on the list, and that's absolutely fair and reasonable.
What gets me — it amuses me, actually — is that the people who condemn the book the most, and really dismiss it just as a silly book, basically haven't read it. And they acknowledge that they haven't read it.
The reason they won't read it has nothing to do with the book. It has to do with George Bush. The one thing that unites all of these people — it's interesting. You talk to a lot of different people who don't know each other and a pattern develops. That thing that unites them is that they detest George Bush. And since he's not on the list, the book must be...
BOB BECKEL, GUEST CO-HOST: Bernie, Bernie — let me ask you. You're right; it's not the list that I would put together, I guarantee you that. And you're also right that we...
HANNITY: I'd be on your list.
BECKEL: George Bush more than any other human being in history can get us together on one thing on the left. I'll guarantee you that.
But let me ask you. Was I missing something or did you leave Hillary Clinton out of this book?
GOLDBERG: I did. And I did. That's a very good catch, Bob. She was in an earlier version when I was just fiddling around. But she has gotten very reasonable and moderate lately and I figured, you know, I'm going to take it in the neck anyway for a bunch of other things. I don't want to put Hillary on the list when she's even more conservative than some Republicans on certain issues, or at least appears to be. So she did not make the list.
And people asked me why Bill wasn't on the list. Even though I probably disagreed with a lot of his politics, I do, you know what? I'll be honest with you, I'd like to go to a ballgame with him. He seems like a good guy in that respect. I don't mean to offend my conservative friends by saying that. I'm not talking politics. He just seems like a guy you'd want to hang out with.
BECKEL: You don't want to offend your conservative friends because your liberal friends have left. So Bernie, here's...
HANNITY: Their loss.
BECKEL: ... I'm going to take exception with you on a guy that I worked for. How in the world you can say that Jimmy Carter, one of the great men of all time, one of the great leading persons involved in human rights, in building places for people who don't have it, in getting rid of the worm disease in Africa, how in the world you could put this man in a book is just beyond me. It's why, although I've always liked you, Bernie, that one is where I draw the line with you.
So go ahead. Tell me why.
GOLDBERG: It's a fair comment. It's a fair comment, Bob. But I did mention his work with Habitat for Humanity.
BECKEL: Yes, you did.
GOLDBERG: And I say — I don't want any credit for this — I say that he deserves a lot of credit. I mean, that — he just does.
But I don't know you, Bob. We've never met personally, but you've always struck me as a straight shooter. So tell me what you think of this.
He has this odd habit of cozying up to left wing dictators. I mean, that's the part I don't get. He — he was friends with the Kochesku (ph), the communist dictator, before his own people took him out and shot him. He's had good things to stay about the head of North Korea. You know, North Korea, who the country...
HANNITY: Bernie, we're running out of time.
GOLDBERG: ... with nuclear weapons.
HANNITY: I don't mean to cut you short.
GOLDBERG: So that's why he's on the list.
HANNITY: The book is great. Congratulations on the great success. My disagreement is over Hillary. I think she's manipulating a lot of people. She might have gotten to you, Bernie. I'll work on you the next time I see you.
GOLDBERG: She may make the update.
HANNITY: OK. We'll wait for the paperback.
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