Ben Carson outlines immigration plan

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," September 14, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Kimberly Guilfoyle along with Kirsten Powers, Eric Bolling, Dana Perino and Tom Shillue. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

He's been leading the GOP field in every major poll for months. And Donald Trump's numbers just keep on climbing. He's at 33 percent in a new Washington Post ABC News survey. The only candidate who comes remotely close is Ben Carson. And the two continued their feud over the weekend.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't think Ben has the energy. Ben is a nice man, but when you're negotiating against China, we need people that are really smart that have tremendous deal-making skills and that had great, great energy.

BEN CARSON, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I recognize that I have plenty of energy. You know, operating on people for 10, 12, sometimes greater than 20 hours at a time, making critical decisions after many hours of intense work.


CARSON: You don't have to be loud to be energetic.


GUILFOYLE: Well, Trump's name seems to come up everywhere, including the Miss America pageant last night where this contestant made it clear that she is not a fan.


MEG MCGUFFIN, MISS ALABAMA: I think Donald Trump is an entertainer, and I think he says what's on a lot of people's minds. But I think that the Republican Party should be absolutely terrified of all the attention that he is taking from incredible candidates like Jeb bush and Chris Christie who could absolutely do the job as president of the United States.


GUILFOYLE: All right. And at the Toronto Film Festival, George Clooney sounded off on Trump's past comments about Mexicans.


GEORGE CLOONEY, ACTOR: Clearly, that's what he said is idiotic, of course it's idiotic. Anybody who says as intolerant of words as those should be laughed at, and that's pretty much I think what eventually history will do.


GUILFOYLE: So it's everyone versus Trump, but will he have the last laugh? Indeed.


JIMMY FALLON, NBC'S THE TONIGHT SHOW HOST: Have you ever apologized, ever in your lifetime? Think back -- close your eyes, think back to baby Donald. Baby -- when you're a little Donny Trump.

TRUMP: I fully think apologizing is a great thing, but you have to be wrong. I will absolutely apologize sometime in the hopefully distant future, if I'm never wrong.


FALLON: Oh, my God.


GUILFOYLE: OK, well, many people were entertained by him, not just on the Tonight Show, but what do you think, Kristen? Is it gonna work?

KIRSTEN POWERS, GUEST CO-HOST: Well, I just can't figure out. Do you think he's serious? Do you think he's serious? He's never apologized. Do you think he's just -- as part of that, sort of shtick?


POWERS: Right?

GUILFOYLE: Anyone come forward to say that he has apologized?

POWERS: I -- would you think?

TOM SHILLUE, GUEST CO-HOST: I think if he had, someone would come forward.


POWERS: Yeah, I know. I mean, seriously, because that's' one thing he like. It's just sort of like a Persona thing or is he for real? That he's does. Does he ever.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Persona, there's another word.

POWERS: Does he ever think he's wrong?

BOLLING: And if he was ever going to apologize, it would have been in the last four weeks or eight weeks. He could have apologized to John McCain. He could have apologized to Carly Fiorina. I don't think he thinks he's done anything wrong and I think his poll numbers can...


BOLLING: Or right. If numbers continue to go up, so why would he? I'm not sure if he ever apologized before, that really don't matter, but what matters is actually going on. The man is going to sell out a 17,000-seat arena, just by showing up. Everyone would love to have that same kind of following. He's now tied -- remember a couple weeks ago, we were like, yeah, he's winning the GOP field, but up against Hillary Clinton, he's getting destroyed. He was down 40 points a few weeks ago. He's basically in a head-to-head tie with her. I think she beats him by two-point or so, but that's within the margin of error. So whatever is going on, I think he'll continue to do and apologizing probably won't be one of them.

GUILFOYLE: All right, Dana, feud with me. Let's talk about communications and feuding and whether or not you think it is a way to accelerate the messaging or you know, become more relevant in the campaign.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Well, if you're at 33 percent, then you're the undisputed frontrunner, and so you can expect that people are going to be asked about you and they're going to comment about you as well. I mean, even at the Miss America pageant, which at what point did the Miss America pageant become like a current events quiz? I thought that was unfortunate for the girls that were competing, but I think we're gonna talk about that a little bit later. The question will be, can he turn those 17,000 -- are those 17,000 voters, do they make up a coalition that show up, which is less than four months from now in Iowa, to actually cast a vote? It could be. I mean, if he's able to go all the way, right, I'm not saying they will, but if he does, then he's absolutely changed every traditional playbook that anyone has ever run for the presidential campaign.

GUILFOYLE: OK now, real quickly about the Ben Carson feud. What do you think about that and calling him Ben, kind of like, what you're getting fraud (ph).

PERINO: Well, is it actually -- I think about this (inaudible) is making note. This is one of these races where we're actually calling all of these candidates by their first name. Were a lot of them like, Bernie, Hillary.


PERINO: Jeb -- I think most people call him Trump, but yes, Carly is another one. It's that kind of interesting thing. It's pretty familiar, which is again, a new more maybe, modern way of political campaigning. I think that -- when you have Dr. Carson and Donald Trump as the two front leaders, then of course, they're going to talk about each other. And I think Dr. Carson, he doesn't -- he's such a mild-mannered way. I really like it when he said, "Believe me, you don't have to be loud to be energetic." And when he talks about -- for example you know, over a surgery for 10 to 12 hours and making those critical decision where, you don't get to ask 20 people, "Do you think I should do this or not? I don't know -- I'll take a poll. Yes, I can make a life and death decisions right then." I thought that was pretty effective answer.

SHILLUE: Gentle Ben that should be his slogan.

PERINO: That could be. Maybe you just kind of it right here.

SHILLUE: Well I think Trump -- I think that he -- when they keep asking about apologizing. When you going you apologize? Why don't you apologize? He has no -- he should say one thing I'll never apologize for America, like President Obama did.


SHILLUE: I'll never go to Europe and apologize. He hasn't said it. It's like they're setting him up. I should be an adviser to some people.

POWERS: You should -- those are pretty good answer.

GUILFOYLE: Would you like to volunteer your services?

PERINO: Don't volunteer, you've got plenty of money to pay.

GUILFOYLE: Someone else is seems to be pretty form their decisions and handling, taking things and strive like a champ. It's Carly Fiorina and the Super PAC just released this ad, kind of some responses of some of Donald Trump's assertions about her.




FIORINA: And look at all of your faces. The face of leadership, this is the face of a 61-year-old woman, I am proud of every year and every wrinkle.



GUILFOYLE: I think she looks great, and Dana, I can't see a wrinkle on her. Just telling the truth here, so.


PERINO: I mean she's looks amazing.

GUILFOYLE: But she is -- strong response.

PERINO: So this is basically harkening back to the controversy from last week in the Rolling Stone interview where Donald Trump was quoted saying, "Look at that face, who would ever vote for that?" He then said he was talking about her persona. She actually was able to take that insult and turn it into a very positive thing. I think that was the most effective political ad of this season, so far.

SHILLUE: It's terrible.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, I mean, its people are really responding to it. It's getting a lot of play, people checking it out.


GUILFOYLE: What do you think?

POWERS: No, I think that's exactly right. And the Women's Media Center had done us -- did a study in 2013 where they looked at how sexist attacks or even just comments about women's appearances could even be positive of affected -- actually, affected their numbers. And the only thing that would change the trajectory was if they responded. So if you stay silent in the face of it, your numbers will start to tank. But if you respond, actually, you can recover and even gain. So she did exactly what you're supposed to do. Rather than, I think a lot of times the conventional wisdom is just to ignore it.


GUILFOYLE: You know Eric, so she's a strong woman, you know, businesswoman. She's kind of sound the way to did to monetize this, make this personal attack work for her.

BOLLING: They put this ad


BOLLING: I mean, yes, fantastic. Great ad, by the way, they put that together fairly quickly, wonderful job ahead of the debate. If she takes that exact ad and brings that to the debate on Wednesday night, and says here's the face of America. Here's the face of working hard. Here's the face of starting at the bottom, working your way up and then maybe she'll get some more headway. I will caution, though, we're talking about all these things that are going on, and look at what's going on. Hillary's numbers, who she -- who Hillary by the way has pointed at Trump saying, Trump is the condescending, he's terrible to women, don't say you cherish women, respect us instead and done the same thing that Carly's kind of trying to do and it's not working. Hillary is sliding among women. Donald Trump is rising among women voters. It's just -- it's, for right now, the female vote, women's vote is becoming the same as the GOP vote. We want anti-establishment. You just don't want this establishment right now, we're gonna follow these guys, the ones who seem to be the most anti- establishment. Right now, Trump owns it.

SHILLUE: Well, that's why this ad was so brilliant. I mean, when I watch it, I want it. I want to go work for Carly Fiorina. It's fantastic. But she took -- she took a shot from Trump and then she turned around and shot at back at democrats. She said democrats don't talk about women's issues, they're everyone's issues. So it was the perfect attack. She didn't go back at Trump, she went at democrats. It's fantastic.

PERINO: Very interesting point, Tom because those who have actually gone up against Trump and see their numbers fail, and I think one of their first casualties is about was last week, when Governor Rick Perry -- for a lot of different reasons, but had failed to gain traction. And one of the things he had done was to pushback -- punch back and hard against Donald Trump, and it actually didn't work for him.

GUILFOYLE: So talk about the messaging here, though, you know in terms of women. Dana, I saw your reaction. We talked about Trump's numbers and how he is rising, climbing with women, while as Eric points it out, Hillary Clinton is on decline.

PERINO: That's true, although, I did read something this weekend in Iowa where he's declining with women there. So I think I there is a lot of forces at play and it's gonna take a while to sort things out. And I think that this debate is coming up Wednesday night, it's very important for everybody, but especially for the frontrunner. But, all to the other things that to keep an eye on, and Kirsten, hit on this. Is that, as the electorate changes, we have to think about women's voting in a different way. Women are now more educated than ever. They're making more money than ever. There's -- I guess there's a few, percentage wise, a few less women in the workplace now than before, but they also they have more children. They're making decisions on their own. Some women are deciding to go forward and have a family without getting married, and so there are lots of different forces at play in this election. Women's votes will be very important, it's 53 percent of the total electorate will be women eligible to vote.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, and women are making the business decisions of the family.

PERINO: Right, yeah.

GUILFOYLE: They are the CEO of the family.

PERINO: And the health decisions.

GUILFOYLE: Health care decisions, financial decisions, purchasing power. A lot -- sorry, Eric.

BOLLING: What do we got?


GUILFOYLE: Basically, you two can go home. Alison, you're in charge of this. Please remove them from.



GUILFOYLE: Kidding. You can stay for now, boys.

Ahead, Trump's replacement on Celebrity Apprentice has just been named. Is it a woman? Who is that to take over for the Donald? A hint: he's a legal immigrant. Stay tuned.


PERINO: Donald Trump's campaign is largely focused on illegal immigration and his run in the polls is now giving voters a clear idea on where he stands on the issue. Here's Ben Carson.


CARSON: Until we seal our borders, everything else is irrelevant. But let's say we get them sealed because certainly in the Carson administration, that would be done within the first year. We have to recognize that we can't just round them up, but we can get them an opportunity to register. I would give them a six-month period. And if they register and they have a pristine record, they haven't been causing problems, I would give them the opportunity to become guest workers, not citizens, not voting people, not people who get, you know goodies. In terms of them becoming citizens later on down the road, if they've done things the right way, we, the American people, will decide what the criteria for that would be.


PERINO: OK, so he's making -- putting out some specifics, K. G.


PERINO: A lot of those things that he mentioned would probably be very tough to get through any Congress, but at least he's got some very specific things. People can pay attention to that, six months, no amnesty, things like that.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. Guest worker, he's talking about not just handing over entitlement, so they have a pristine record, excellent choice of words. I like the way his mind works, the analysis that he goes through, to identify a problem, and then he saying of course, I would, you know seal the borders. He's thinking it a bit almost like surging goes in and deals with you know, a tumor or a disease, and you are trying then seal it off, so that it doesn't become metastatic and spread all over, so you control the area, you control this spread. So I understand the philosophy there because then you can kind of contain the problem and then work from and, he's also saying, look, I'm going to give them an opportunity. Please register. You have six months to register to let us know who you are, identify yourself and we're going to work with you within the system to do this in the right way and a legal way.

PERINO: Metastatic?


PERINO: That's an excellent word. We're having a great vocabulary lesson today on The Five. Do you expect illegal immigration to be one of the big issues at the debate this week?

BOLLING: Yes, only because it's what really started the Trump bandwagon and you know.


BOLLING: Yeah and, but see. Here's the thing, though. Look, every single republican candidate on that stage is going to say, we can't do anything. We have to start with sealing the border, the rest is irrelevant until after we seal the border. But then, no one has a real defined, clear plan for sealing the border, with exception of the one and everyone laughs at the ability to build a wall. I don't laugh at that ability. I'm not -- this isn't about Donald Trump. Let's have a discussion about, if you're not going to build a wall, how are you going to seal the border? And the only way to do it is get very specific about the amount of border agents you're willing to put on that border. Rudy Giuliani has put 25,000 border agents along the border. He said every 50 miles or so, 50 people, or something to that effect. And he has a specific plan, but you need the specifics. I keep hearing it time and time again, from all over GOP are saying, seal the border first, now we'll talk. No. Tell us how you are going to seal the border. I really want to know.

PERINO: Yeah, you might actually hear that. I'm gonna go to one other thing here, which is the sound bite from Dr. Carson about what the republicans should be doing and taking an opportunity to focus on African-American communities.


CARSON: Many luminary figures in the black community have been members of the Republican Party, a party that should push for hard work and self- reliance and mechanisms for removing oneself from a state of dependency to becoming a part of the fabric of America.

I believe that black people, just like any other people in our country, are listening. And they're looking for solutions. And they're not going to just blindly follow someone because they say, do what I tell you to do.


PERINO: Great interview aside from the cell phone violation.


PERINO: I don't know if you heard that.

SHILLUE: He's an interesting ringtone, doesn't he?

PERINO: Well, he might have had an emergency. Do you think he'll make any headway with African- American community?

SHILLUE: Well, I would hope and I think his advice for Republicans is appropriate. I mean, you don't even have to sketch out a plan. Just go into the -- what I would do as a republican candidate, go into black communities and say, what have they done for you lately? What have the democrats done to you? It's not working. Join us. That's all you have to say. Say we're open, please come join us.

PERINO: And this year Kirsten, there actually might be some receptivity to that.

POWERS: Yeah, well, I think.

PERINO: I think.

POWERS: To have over the years been receptivity and George Bush actually made some inroads into the African-American community until unfortunately, after Katrina. Things sort of a lot of that ground was lost. And the reason he was inroads is because African-Americans care about the same things live, everybody else cares about. They want to have their -- to have businesses. They want to who will take care of their children and they want who will send their kids to school. And I think that there is an opportunity there for sure. And if there are certain candidates now that are -- look, you know Rand Paul was also talked about this a lie. Who are now saying, like let's go there, let's show up. You know when I think to that something -- you're right. If they just show up and talk to them about same things they all talk everybody else about, you might have some sort of response.

PERINO: Kimberly, what do you think he needs to do this week or in coming weeks to keep his position, at least at number two or even to try to maybe, even makes some end routes. He does have a book coming out on October. It's called The More Perfect Union, which the timing for that release of that book is probably very good for him.

GUILFOYLE: You like the timing.

PERINO: I think the timing is smart.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, I mean, you know honestly, I would be remiss to micromanage at this point. I think things are going very well, and he seems confident in his approach, in his messaging, in his authenticity. I like what's happening so far. I think it's going to be you know about the debate. I think I would, that you know kind of law accept until Thursday and then see how people deliver.

PERINO: And Eric, the all important thing is he has to raise the money. And apparently, his donations actually, they are able to bring in some higher dollars. And also, but the numbers of small dollar donors, which is like $25 to $50 are actually growing for him.

BOLLING: Four hundred thousand he said he had small donors. And I mentioned this last week. He literally teared up when he started talking about those people who said, they don't have enough money to send. So they'll send when they can. So I don't want to waste their money. The debate, really important.


BOLLING: Dr. Ben Carson, just continue to do what is he is doing.


BOLLING: Just be the same guy, straight through, don't bite, don't bite on a Trump fight, just keep doing your thing. I will tell you, though Scott Walker has to step up. This is, I -- from, in my opinion, Scott Walker, this is make or break because if he doesn't have an exceptional debate.

PERINO: Seems trouble.

BOLLING: I -- no, I think the money goes elsewhere.

PERINO: Hopefully, we'll be able to talk a little bit more about that tomorrow, like all of the debates.

GUILFOYLE: And he said a lot of .

PERINO: Because I think you'll probably like what he said about unions today.

BOLLING: I did see that.

PERINO: Yeah, all right.

BOLLING: I see that.

PERINO: All right, more to come. Joe Biden is deciding on a presidential run. They are new sign, he had seriously considering, joining the race, Kirsten has, that is for us, next.

GUILFOYLE: Well, OK, good.

KIRSTEN: I'm in? (ph)



POWERS: There's a clear democratic frontrunner in two of the key early voting states and it's not Hillary Clinton. Bernie Sanders is leading by 10 points in Iowa and by 22 points in New Hampshire. Hillary Clinton doesn't seem too concerned yet, she addressed the Sanders surge, earlier.


HILLARY CLINTON, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't have any issue whatsoever in having a really good, strong contest in the democratic nomination. And he's doing a great job, and the others who are out there are working hard, and, you know, we're going to have some debates and we'll be able to talk about where we agree and where we disagree. And I think that will help voters make up their minds.



BOLLING: Have some better to.

POWERS: And then.


POWERS: There is the Biden factor. You guys are missing a lot here on the set. The vice president has yet to announce a decision on his 2016 bid, but he met last week with a powerful mega bundler who helped President Obama bring in the big bucks. Peggy Noonan thinks history may be repeating itself for Hillary.


PEGGY NOONAN, WALL STREET JOURNAL COLUMNIST: To me this is all just starting to feel like 2008 again. The inevitable candidate starts to look evitable. And I think if Biden got in, I must tell you, I think within two or three days, he'll be up 20 points.


POWERS: What do you think, Dana? Do you think this will.

PERINO: But what I thought Peggy Noonan's jacket looks fabulous. So I was kind of distracted by how beautiful the jacket was.

POWERS: Yeah, it is. Yes. But isn't this 2008 all over again?

PERINO: I think it's hard for me to see Bernie Sanders putting together a coalition like Obama was able to do because a month -- as I understand it, Hillary Clinton still has the democratic establishment base.

POWERS: Right.

PERINO: OK? They have not abandoned her yet. This is a little bit more on the fringe. Interesting to me, though, that Bernie Sanders continues to do well without ever having to say anything about Hillary Clinton, he's never once criticized her. So imagine if he started to do that.


PERINO: In his own way. I mean, maybe his numbers would go down even more.

POWERS: Right. Well, or maybe he has calculated, Eric that it's better not to.


POWERS: Confront her because she's.

BOLLING: Can I give a third action?

POWERS: Democrat -- sure, go ahead.

BOLLING: Bernie is a joke. This whole thing is a farce. Everyone who is sick of Hillary Clinton and doesn't want Hillary Clinton is just throwing their support behind the other one.


BOLLING: Joe Biden, if he were in it, he would be smoking it. Elizabeth Warren would be smoking. I think it's really interesting.


BOLLING: As you pointed out in that read, Biden was on Colbert saying, I'm not sure if I have the heart. I don't know if I have the energy, the heart. I don't know if I have it. And then, within a couple hours, he was meeting with Robert Wolf, who is a Hillary Clinton mega bundler.

PERINO: Obama.

BOLLING: And Clinton. Oh, I'm sorry. Obama mega bundler who's already placed his support behind Hillary. He spent 90 minutes with this guy. So he's got the energy to do this. He's clearly thinking about getting into it. I think he would take all that Bernie Sanders support, put it right on his, and it would be, do you want -- Hillary, do you want someone else? And that someone else would be Biden, OK?

POWERS: OK, so here's the question. Does he take from Biden -- does he take from Sanders or does he take from Clinton?

GUILFOYLE: ABC. And he got Clinton.

POWERS: No, but.

GUILFOYLE: Could it be.

POWERS: Because I don't think - I actually thinks the Bernie Sanders people are Bernie Sanders people. I don't think they're establishment people. I don't think they swing necessarily to Biden right off the bat.


POWERS: I think they're probably -- more likely as the he steals from Hillary, right?

PERINO: Right.

POWERS: You know, what do you think?



BOLLING: He's a socialist.

POWERS: Well, yeah.

GUILFOYLE: I think he's.

POWERS: He really is, if you look at his voting record. He's in the main in the Democratic Party. I mean, he does -- he votes something like 95 percent higher.

BOLLING: He claims not to even want to run as a democrat.



POWERS: Tom, I feel like you have a socialist democrat joke.

SHILLUE: Well, no.


SHILLUE: Well, no. No, I don't. I mean, I think that I agree with Bolling. I think that it is "Anybody But." If I were running for office, I would go down to the courthouse and change any name to "anybody but." Because on both sides...

PERINO: Two "T's" or one?

SHILLUE: Anybody but Trump, anybody but Clinton, anybody but Bush. That's who they say they're supporting. Hello, I'm "Anybody But," and I'm running for office.

GUILFOYLE: What do you have to offer in terms of specifics?

SHILLUE: Nothing yet. No plan. It's just "anybody but."

PERINO: It's fine. Everybody would vote for you.


PERINO: Can I make a prediction?

POWERS: Go ahead.

PERINO: Any minute now you're going to see some articles, I'm predicting in the next three weeks, articles from the mainstream media, trying to mainstream Hillary Clinton, in which you'll see analysts say, "Actually, you know, having the worst summer of her political life was a great thing for her because now she" -- la, la, la, la, la -- and basically, they'll start getting back on her bandwagon. Mark my words.

GUILFOYLE: I think she's in real big trouble. It's like triage time now. I think people will embrace Biden. I think even the Sanders supporters will. I think they consider him more to be like, you know, Obama.

BOLLING: Do you two remember the massive attack on Hillary Clinton when President -- Senator Barack Obama started to gain some...


BOLLING: I mean, the media destroyed Hillary. I think the same thing. I think...

PERINO: That and people jumped ship.

BOLLING: They're going to destroy her. Yes.

PERINO: Remember, like, what you're saying, in terms of Robert -- would somebody like Robert Wolf, who I have no -- I've never met him, I have no idea -- but would he be willing to, actually, after having expressed support for Hillary Clinton, take a -- take a turn and support Biden? He might.


PERINO: If he thinks there's trouble. He wants his money to be spent well.

GUILFOYLE: Right. He wants to take the White House. Of course. No one wants to back a losing team.

POWERS: No, she's still actually not. She's still the leading candidate among Democrats. So she's...

GUILFOYLE: Yes, but she's...

BOLLING: Not in Iowa.

PERINO: Make her campaign great again.

POWERS: I think she's going to have to dip a lot further than that. But...

GUILFOYLE: Can you make a hat out of that?


GUILFOYLE: It was a little verbose. I'm just getting started fighting.

POWERS: OK. Still ahead on "The Five," "The Fastest Seven." But first, new developments on the Syrian refugee crisis. Stay tuned.


SHILLUE: In an attempt to slow down the number of refugees pouring into the country, Germany and other European nations are now putting imposing tighter border controls. There's debate about how the West should handle the growing crisis. Let's listen to some new political reaction here at home.


GOV. JOHN KASICH (R-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think very it's important that we don't let anybody infiltrate as part of a radical group, but America needs to be part of this decision.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I take ISIS at its word when they said, in their own words, they will use and exploit the refugee crisis to infiltrate the West. That concerns me.

SCOTT WALKER (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: At some point, you can't just look at the symptoms. You've got to address the problem; and the problem is squarely with ISIS, and it's with Assad.


SHILLUE: It's true.

Bill Maher recently spoke about the refugees and the impact they could have on Europe.


BILL MAHER, HOST, HBO'S "REAL TIME WITH BILL MAHER": I so understand why moderate Muslims are fleeing their homelands, but the answer can't really be that we empty out the Middle East of all the moderates and leave it to ISIS and the extremists. If they just come to moderate-tolerant Europe, to someday make it less moderate and tolerant, that isn't the answer, right?

I would be more sympathetic if there was a better track record in the Muslim world of moderates standing up to extremists.


SHILLUE: Dana, have you ever done Bill Maher's show? That seems like a great show for you.

PERINO: I haven't had an opportunity, no.


PERINO: No. But I like this show.

SHILLUE: No -- yes. The...


PERINO: I'm staying right here.

SHILLUE: I'm wondering -- I was wondering what you would say to that.

POWERS: He meant as a guest.

SHILLUE: Listen, I think that moderates don't have a good track record -- he's right about that. Not here and not overseas.

PERINO: On what, on refugees?

SHILLUE: Moderate Muslims don't have a good track record resisting the extremists.

PERINO: Well, I think that there's -- I think that is debatable.

But on this issue, on refugees it is a growing one, and it's actually changing the entire makeup of the world. We're not just talking about -- let's say -- 8,000 refugees. For example, in Germany, they started the process of registering 800,000.

And I think that what we're seeing is that this is what it looks like when you lead from behind, when you wait too long to make a decision. The ultimate responsibility does rest with Assad, but you have to solve a problem like this one at its source. If you don't, yes, they are going to flee, because we are survivalists. That's what we do as humans. They are fleeing, and they're going to the place where they think they will be able to find safety.

And one of the problems Europe has is their welfare benefits. Look what happened -- it's happening in Sweden. And those other countries like Poland and Hungary are saying, "Hold on a second. I don't think we're for this." And it is a huge problem. That this is what you get for not dealing with it four years ago.

SHILLUE: And isn't that true, Kirsten, that what Bill Maher said. You don't want to empty out of the Middle East all the Muslims who are pro- western, and that's what you're getting when people are migrating to places like Germany.

POWERS: Well, yes, but the alternative is that they may just die. I mean, you know, these are the options that they have. They can die in -- you know, die these countries, either be killed or starve to death, or whatever it is. And so I think, you know, we can't expect them just to stay there.

And in terms of them reacting to the -- the moderates reacting to the radicals, I mean, the radicals are going to kill them. You know what I mean? So this isn't -- we're not talking about some debate, like going on a TV show and debating, like -- they're literally going to go in and massacre people.

So I think it's a little unfair to put it on them to say, like, "Why aren't you stopping ISIS?" I mean, I don't know what they're supposed to do exactly. They're victims, right?

SHILLUE: Right. So the individuals are victims, right?


SHILLUE: But Eric, the -- where are the Middle Eastern leaders? Where is Saudi Arabia on this?

BOLLING: Correct.

SHILLUE: They're kind of sitting on the sidelines.

BOLLING: Where is Saudi Arabia? Where are the Iranians? Where is Iraq?

I mean, if you really want to be honest, there you go. There's plenty of opportunity.

But you know what is not there? Opportunity. And these refugees see it, and they -- almost to a "T" when they're interviewed and they're honest, they say, "We want to go to Germany. There's a lot of opportunity in Germany." And that's what they're looking for, looking for a way to make it better for themselves. So they find Germany.

The -- I mean, you have to look back and what would happen if we were going to take, not 10,000 refugees, 100,000 refugees or a million refugees? Can you imagine what would happen here? I think it's a big mistake. I think you really -- yes, Tom, you guys are right. You have to attack the problem, which is Assad, but that's a long-term proposition. That's not overnight. In the meantime, I think Germany honestly is making a big mistake. I think we're making a big mistake taking 10,000.

SHILLUE: Well, Kimberly, obviously, you know, these refugees would love to go to Germany. You know, it's a great company. But now...

GUILFOYLE: They're going to probably go anywhere but where they are.

SHILLUE: Well, German -- German citizens now are kind of pushing back, and there's, like, an anti-immigrant thing going on there. And people are saying, "Oh, the terrible Germans." But can you blame them?

GUILFOYLE: Well, no, I can't blame them. They're thinking, actually, yes, they want to be compassionate, but they're also thinking about national security.

And I don't know. ISIS is on record saying they were going to use this massive, like, you know, migration of refugees to be able to infiltrate countries, western countries, as well, to create new terror cells. Like a little cropping of, you know, like spreading seeds for new grass. That's what -- this is the concern, right? That's what people are worried about.


GUILFOYLE: Isn't that relevant?

SHILLUE: They're going to take advantage of this if they can.

GUILFOYLE: That's why people are saying, "We want to bring the Christians in. We don't have a problem, because we think they'll integrate better." They're worried about...

BOLLING: If we as -- we've got to go. If we as Americans want to -- what's wrong with Iraq? I mean, is that a bad place for -- to take refugees?

POWERS: Yes, it's unsafe.

SHILLUE: Of course. We've got to go.

PERINO: It's safer than other things. But the refugee crisis was entirely predictable. And so for European governments and Americans government on Wednesday night, when the debaters are asked about this, I would absolutely go against Obama and Clinton.


PERINO; This is their policy.

SHILLUE: Ahead, the newly crowned Miss America settles Tom Brady's Deflategate, she says, once and for all. And it's coming up next in "The Fastest Seven."


BOLLING: Welcome back. Time for...


GRAPHIC: Fastest 7


BOLLING: ... "The Fastest Seven Minutes on Television," three grandiose stories, seven galloping minutes, one grounded host.

First up, Donald Trump. Big personality, big following, and when he left "The Celebrity Apprentice," he left NBC with big shoes to fill.


TRUMP: Meatloaf, you're fired.

The executives didn't like your idea. You know that, right? Kenya, you're fired.

Dennis, she helped to make me a star. But Omarosa, you're fired.


BOLLING: But NBC just announced that Arnold Schwarzenegger will be the new host of the "Celebrity Apprentice" show.




BOLLING: Now, I've spent a ton of times with the "Celebrity Apprentice" series, so when Trump announced he was leaving the show to pursue a presidential run, it was hard for me to fathom who could fill that void. With Schwarzenegger, NBC gets an international film star with former governor credentials. I'm looking forward to see if the Governator can fill the shoes of the Donald.

K.G., your thoughts on this.

GUILFOYLE: They had to pick someone super awesome and a little bit like scary, so that, you know, Donald Trump would not criticize him. Right? Isn't that -- interesting. Don't have anything else to say about it.

BOLLING: Trump came out and pledged his support for him.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. I don't think he's going to say -- yes, I don't think he's going to say bad stuff about him. I think it's a good choice. I like Arnold. I think he's fantastic.

BOLLING: Do you like this choice?

PERINO: Yes, I think it's good for the -- I mean, for -- I'm not -- I'm not a regular watcher of that show, but if you're a fan of the show, I think Arnold Schwarzenegger is a decent choice, sure.

BOLLING: Got any names for -- we were trying to figure out what Schwarzenegger would say instead of "You're fired." I'm guessing he's not going to go with the same, "You're fired."

SHILLUE: "You're terminated."

BOLLING: "You're terminated"? Terminated. Very good.


GUILFOYLE: I should have done it. Yes.

POWERS: Kimberly should have been the replacement.

GUILFOYLE: It would have been amazing.

BOLLING: In for the Trump?

PERINO: She would fire somebody.

GUILFOYLE: I would Taser anyone I was firing.

PERINO: She has no mercy.

BOLLING: I think you and I could sit -- you know how they have Ivanka Trump and -- ? Maybe you and I could sit side by side with the Terminator. And, OK. They're like, "Bolling, keep going."

GUILFOYLE: Begging for it.

BOLLING: Speaking of Donald Trump, the GOP frontrunner visited "The Tonight Show" Friday. Here's Trump and Fallon reprising the hilarious "Mirror, Mirror" skit.


JIMMY FALLON, HOST, NBC'S "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH JIMMY FALLON": If you win, is your vice president going to be Gary Busey?

TRUMP: Look, I love Gary. He's fantastic. But more of a Supreme Court justice, in my opinion.

Vice president is a very serious job, so I'm probably going to go with somebody else. I would say maybe Kanye West.


BOLLING: And that appearance drove "The Tonight Show" to their highest ratings in 18 months. Take that, Stephen Colbert. Delivered especially for you on your premiere week.

Tommy, the reprise of that, great skit.

SHILLUE: It was fantastic. You know, Jimmy was trying to keep up with the mirroring, but I don't know if Trump was mirroring him. Trump is like, "I'm not going to mirror anybody. You can mirror me. I don't mirror you."

PERINO: Stand alone.

SHILLUE: Because they didn't have any shots of Trump doing the mirroring.

BOLLING: And Kirsten, no question, highest rating -- highest...

POWERS: That's the thing. It's like, OK, so he's a great entertainer, right? Does he need to be president? I don't -- I mean, I just don't see where those two things go together.


GUILFOYLE: And the polls say otherwise.

SHILLUE: It's not as if we've never elected a president based on personality.

BOLLING: Well, you know...

POWERS: Which was bad.


PERINO: I don't know. Why you looking at me?

BOLLING: I'm saying the last eight years has all been about personality.

BOLLING: And also, Ronald Reagan, when he first decided to run for president, a lot of people said that was kind of a joke, an entertainer as -- running for president.

PERINO: He'd been governor of California.

BOLLING: Yes, all right. But also an entertainer. Work with me.

Finally Miss America was crowned last night. Miss Georgia, Betty Cantrell, took the crown. During the question portion of the contest, Miss Georgia was asked if Tom Brady cheated at football.



BETTY CANTRELL, MISS AMERICA: That's a very good question. I'm not sure. I think I'd have to be there to see the ball and feel it and make sure if it was deflated or not deflated. But if there was question there, then yes, I think he cheated. If there was any question to be had, I think that he definitely cheated and that he should have been suspended for that. That's not fair.


BOLLING: Thank you. The judges decided that was good enough. Miss Georgia is now Miss America 2016. It's likely had nothing at all to do with the swimsuit competition, because I hear that only accounts for 10 percent of the scoring these days -- K.G.

GUILFOYLE: What's wrong with the swimsuit competition?

BOLLING: Nothing at all. That's only 10 percent. I have numbers, because I love numbers. Lifestyle, swimsuit 10 percent; talent 30 percent. That question was worth 20 percent.

POWERS: OK. I mean...

BOLLING: Would you like to answer?

POWERS: I don't know. I mean, how are they supposed to even know the answers to these questions? I mean, I don't -- I do this for a living. And I don't -- did she cheat or not? Maybe. I can't know.

GUILFOYLE: But you can give your opinion. You've got to be quick and be on your feet.


GUILFOYLE: I have to be there. I want to touch it; I want to feel it, I want to get on the evidence; I'm going to take an opinion; I'm going to get back to you.

BOLLING: See, that was the answer I was looking for when I threw this segment to you out at the soundbite.

GUILFOYLE: I know, but you're like, "Oh, 10 percent swimsuit." I mean, listen. No.

BOLLING: I made the point earlier, saying that when did Miss America become, what a cultural...

PERINO: A current events quiz.

BOLLING: ... quiz?

PERINO: You know, I love a current events quiz, because I was, you know -- that's my thing.

But also, I just don't think that any of these questions got to the point, like, what is their world view? How do they approach things?

And actually, my advice would be when you start off, "That's a really good question. I'm not sure," stop there. And then say, "You know what? I haven't paid attention to football, because I've been studying," or something like that.

BOLLING: Exactly.

PERINO: I thought that basically, she took every side of that issue by that end, and I don't think it's a great question.

BOLLING: Thomas.

SHILLUE: Why are they out of breath when they're answering? Did she just finish, like, an obstacle course or something?

BOLLING: No. They only get a certain -- see that clock ticking right there?


BOLLING: They have to get the answer in there and make sure they say "thank you" at the end.

SHILLUE: First of all, she started by lying, by saying, "Really good question." You shouldn't lie like that.

PERINO: Not a good question. That's gratuitous.

BOLLING: I don't know. I think it...

PERINO: ... to you on "Red Eye"?

SHILLUE: Really good question.

GUILFOYLE: I think they should be able to answer any question. Why not? Why can't they be smart and informed on current events and kill it and look great in a bathing suit? Have a good appetite?

SHILLUE: Well, maybe she should have given the right answer. "No, he didn't cheat. He was exonerated. Play ball."

BOLLING: So last night, my wife is watching this, and she's saying -- she's yelling at me. I'm in the kitchen watching football. So I'm watching football. Great game last night. Unbelievable game.

And she's yelling. She's getting really fired up about these questions. She was getting mad at the questions, still.

PERINO: Yes, it's stupid.

BOLLING: All right. Susan, I got you. We've got to go. "One More Thing" up next.


GUILFOYLE: All right. It time now for "One More Thing" -- Eric.

BOLLING: And we would like to wish our Jewish friends a happy Rosh Hashanah. Shana tovah, everyone. It's the year 5776 in the Jewish faith.

OK. That said, I want my son to leave the room, and anybody else who has a college-age kid about to go to school, looking at colleges, because "Playboy" has announced their top ten party schools for the year. And rather than give you the whole ten, we'll give you the top five. University of Illinois, five; Tulane, No. 4. My son is applying to Tulane.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh.

BOLLING: Oh, no. Florida State, University of Iowa and Ohio University. Not Ohio State, though, Ohio University.

PERINO: What's down at Florida State?

GUILFOYLE: Ohio's No. 1.

BOLLING: Florida State is in Tallahassee. The other one's in Gainesville.

GUILFOYLE: OK. Sounds problematic. Dana.

PERINO: All right. I think Eric is going to like my "One More Thing."


PERINO: OK. Hopefully. Let's see. So George De Paris, this is a man who was a tailor to presidents from Lyndon Johnson all the way through Obama. This is an amazing story. Take -- take time to go look up his story. He was 801 years old. He unfortunately died over the weekend. He suffered from a brain tumor.

He came to the United States in the 1950s. He was 27 years old. He had a life savings of $4,000. He's French. His girlfriend had dumped him, but he panhandled for a while and then he finally got this job as a tailor. A true rags to riches story. He was known fondly to many presidents, and he will be missed. A great story, a great obituary if you have time to check it out.

BOLLING: That is amazing. Was he Obama's tailor, as well?

PERINO: Yes, all the way through Obama.

BOLLING: That man can make a suit.

PERINO: Every president.

GUILFOYLE: That was very sweet. It was touching. And interesting, as well. I approve.

All right. And I approve of this. Thank you very much for your service. Airman Spencer Stone is going to receive the Purple Heart on Thursday for being severely injured when he foiled that terror attack. And also Stone's friend, Army Specialist Alek Skarlatos of the Oregon National Guard is going to be honored in the ceremony, as well.

This is fantastic. I'm glad they did this. Because normally, Purple Hearts are only awarded for combat actions, but in 2015, they changed the rules a little bit. And I think it's important, especially in light of the times we face this day, and they're to be applauded for their service.

PERINO: Smart.

GUILFOYLE: Thank you. Tom.

SHILLUE: All right. Remember when we all watched the same TV shows?


SHILLUE: "The Golden Girls," it was about old ladies, and I enjoyed it in junior high and high school. Fantastic. Just like "Red Eye with Tom Shillue," it appealed to a huge demographic.

GUILFOYLE: You're kind of like a Golden Girl.

SHILLUE: I am like a Golden Girl. You know what? I love this show.

GUILFOYLE: You'd be Maude.

SHILLUE: Here's a picture of the cast as we remember them.




SHILLUE: Yes, that was fantastic.

BOLLING: I see what you did there.

PERINO: He wishes so much he was.

SHILLUE: He was there in spirit.

GUILFOYLE: He opened, like, one of his little segments the other day with "The Golden Girls" music. Remember that?

All right. Well, this is fun. Let's keep it going. Kirsten.

POWERS: OK. So I think we all remember Jimmy Carter announced that he has cancer. He's 90 years old, and I think a lot of 90 years old, frankly me if I had cancer, would probably be taking it easy.

But he and his wife have a Bible study, and after he announced this, it's become -- a lot of people put it on their bucket list to go to his Bible study. And it's gone from about a hundred people, a couple hundred people to a thousand people right after he announced it. And -- and now they've just had to expand it. He's just continued teaching it and really just has been so graceful and so inspirational in the way he's responded.

GUILFOYLE: That was really good. Thanks for bringing that to us.

POWERS: Thank you.

GUILFOYLE: It's been nice to have you here today.

All right. Set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us. "Special Report" is next.

Content and Programming Copyright 2015 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2015 Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.