This is a rush transcript from "Your World with Neil Cavuto," April 21, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.


It's the warning that has everybody talking. What did he mean? What did the CDC director mean about maybe a more virulent strand of this coming later?

This as protests heat up in Richmond, Virginia, among a half-dozen other cities and states today that were dealing with a shutdown, with which they have had enough. We're going to be up on those protests, but first on what the CDC director meant when he told The Washington Post that there's a distinct possibility that a second stronger virus could be coming our way by the end of the year.

The latest from CDC headquarters, Jonathan Serrie there in Atlanta -- Jonathan.


The CDC director's concern is over the potential timing of this second wave. Although the coronavirus vaccine is probably still going to be a year away, Director Robert Redfield is urging Americans to get flu shots once they become available, shots against seasonal flu.

And here's why. Dr. Robert Redfield tells The Washington Post a second wave of COVID-19 may appear in the winter, just as flu season is ramping up. And so you would have hospitals dealing with two outbreaks of major respiratory illnesses at the same time.

So, if people get vaccinated against flu, and fewer people get sick from flu, that will presumably preserve precious hospital resources for the coronavirus response.

Also, federal health officials say testing and monitoring by then will be improved.


DR. DEBORAH BIRX, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS RESPONSE COORDINATOR: We're also hoping, by that time, that we have additional treatment options for people with COVID-19, so that there will be additional treatment available in the fall.


SERRIE: As Virginia lawmakers met under a canopy outside the state capitol this afternoon, demonstrators in cars protested Governor Ralph Northam's shutdown of nonessential businesses to control the spread of COVID-19.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's going to run its course, regardless of whether or not we stay open or shut.


SERRIE: Now, here in Georgia, Neil, they have the opposite situation.

In Georgia, you have Governor Brian Kemp trying to reopen some nonessential businesses on Friday, including tattoo parlors, hair salons, barbershops, bowling alleys. But some of the mayors of some of the major cities in Georgia, including Atlanta and Savannah, are pushing back.

And while they don't have the authority to override the governor's executive order, they are simply calling on their residents to stay home voluntarily -- Neil.

CAVUTO: Jonathan, I'm curious now, just to be clear, on the CDC director and what he said or didn't say.

Robert Redfield had made these comments in a Washington Post interview about a second wave. Kayleigh McEnany, the White House press secretary, claims the media took him out of context. Donald Trump earlier on had said that it was fake news, again, assuming that that was taken out of context.

But from the director himself, there's been no clarification. So what are we to make of that?

SERRIE: Yes, and I don't think any clarification is needed.

I think federal health officials are all in agreement that COVID-19 may very likely be a seasonal illness. And so it would be a no-brainer that, if it reappears in the fall, or in the winter, coinciding with flu season, that's going to be a huge burden on the hospital.

And so it would be sound public health practice to advise people, once seasonal flu shots for next season become available, to go out there and get those shots.

Now, I think some people may have interpreted his comments in a different way, as possibly contradicting the administration. That's not the way I read it. To me, it just seems like good, sound public health advice, Neil.

CAVUTO: In other words, to look for the potential of something that could happen. You might be right.

And to clarify that -- and, Jonathan, thank you very, very much.

Redfield had warned of a second wave of coronavirus this winter, and that it could potentially -- the key word there being potentially -- be even more difficult than the one we just went through.

Now, many, many agree that, if there is a more virulent strain or an emergence of another wave, that that is always the possible case, the potential case. So, we might be just sort of parsing words here and nuances, but it did have a lot of people talking as to whether we might be easing up on things just as there's the distinct possibility, the potential for something coming down the road.

I want to discuss this in more detail with Dr. Nasia Safdar, the University of Wisconsin health medical director of infection control.

Doctor, thanks for taking the time.

It seems to me that the CDC director -- and I parsed this and these interview comments of The Washington Post every which way to Friday, and I don't think he was saying anything that wasn't out there in the public domain of a possibility, that there's a possibility something emerges in the fall and the winter.

Do you agree with that possible premise?


Most seasonal respiratory viruses will have a seasonal predilection. So I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility to think that there will be a second wave coming.

CAVUTO: So, when we do see second waves, Doctor -- I know it's infrequent, but in situations like this, do you change your thinking about how you unwind out of this one, unwind out of the social distancing provisions and other, you know, orders that are in place in scores of states, most states in this country?

SAFDAR: I think what you have to do is realizing this is going to be a marathon, and not a sprint.

I think that you have to start thinking about very carefully and slowly easing up on the social distancing measures, realizing that it's a little bit like letting the genie out of the bottle. You want to be able to be in a place where you can push it back in if you have to.

And to willy-nilly open up everything at the same time is likely to be fraught with problems.

CAVUTO: Doctor, we hear of among the things they want to look for is a decline in hospitalizations, a continued improvement, not only in the report of new cases, but even in the more lagging indicator, the report of deaths, as well as more testing.

That's a lot of things to check off before going through this unwinding. What would you like to see?

SAFDAR: I think you have to make sure that there's a very robust public health infrastructure in place.

With all this effort that we have gone to, to try and stop the transmission of this virus, it would be a shame to let it now unwind to the point where we can't keep it in check anymore. So, having the hospital infrastructure, the public health contact tracing, the testing to be able to accomplish all that is really critical to success.

CAVUTO: So, with these antibody tests that can be far more sweeping, and you get an idea of maybe an alarming increase in cases or potential cases, what would that tell you?

SAFDAR: I think what an antibody test would tell us, what proportion of the population has been infected.

I don't think we're at the point right now where we can say that there's a certain protective level of antibody and what that level is, suggesting that people may not get reinfected. I don't think we have those answers yet.

CAVUTO: Doctor, thank you very, very much.

I know we peppered you with a lot of questions based on some of this breaking news. We appreciate your patience as well, Dr. Nasia Safdar.

All right, right now, I just want to take you to the corner of Wall and Broad. You might notice a very big run-up today in the Dow.

A lot of that had to do with the fact that oil prices were jumping again. I know we live in an upside-down, topsy world, but the fact of the matter is, we had seen stops careen on the belief that oil was going to negative prices here. We adjusted that. They did come back a little bit here.

But the fact of the matter is, we are still at and in and out of record lows for a barrel of oil, today costing you a little bit more than $13 a barrel.

That's a double whammy for the state of Oklahoma, a big energy producer itself, also dealing with the coronavirus.

That state's Republican governor, Kevin Stitt, with us right now.

Boy, Kevin, you have got a lot to handle these days. So, Governor, I'm wondering, on the oil front first and the energy front, and talk the administration is open to helping the oil industry, do you know what that help might be?

GOV. KEVIN STITT (R-OK): Well, you're right.

I mean, it's been a double whammy for our state. One in five jobs are related directly or indirectly to the oil and gas industry. And with COVID and demand coming out of us, the demand from COVID, being about 20 to 30 million barrels a day, depending on who you look at, it's just been -- it's been a double whammy, with the prices and then the surplus from the Saudis and Russia, with their oversupply of oil.

It's just kind of been the perfect storm for our state right now. So, we're looking at the CARES Act and some of those federal stimulus packages to help all of our industries in Oklahoma.

CAVUTO: To the coronavirus, Governor, I -- the latest count I have, you had close to 2,900 cases in your state, 170 deaths, but the trend has been stabilizing.

Are you comfortable with the trend you're seeing, comfortable with eventually getting your state kind of -- there's no such thing as back to what things were, but closer to that?

STITT: You know, we are.

I just had a press conference where I did my update to the states. And we rolled out a three-phased reopening plan, a very measured reopening plan, because the intent of my 15 executive orders was to flatten the curve and to build capacity in our hospitals.

And you're seeing that. We peaked, actually, on March 30, with 560 people in hospitals across our state. And that is -- trend has gone down. And, today, we have 298 people across the state in the hospitals with COVID- related symptoms.

So, we feel good right now. We're going to be data-driven. And we're going to do a measured phase one, two and three reopening starting this Friday, and then again May 1 with some other things. And we will move to phase two, as long as the data and the trends continue to be flattened.

CAVUTO: Are you at all dissuaded by the CDC director warning about, and I must stress, the potential of a second wave that could come in the fall or the winter? A lot of doctors tell me that that is not such an earth- shattering statement.

It's just one of those possibilities that happen with a situation like this. But it did raise possibilities that, just as we're getting out of this virus and all the issues attached to it, we might have another potentially more dangerous one down the road.

Does that affect how you calibrate your decisions?

STITT: Well, sure. It goes into the decision-making.

But I told Oklahomans today that coronavirus is in the United States. It's in Oklahoma. And just because we're going to do a measured reopening of our economy, it doesn't mean that we can stop social distancing, that we don't have to continue with some of these practices, sanitation, washing the hands, continuing the social distancing practices, because we know it's here.

We know more people are going to get cases. That's why we have to watch the data. And, right now, the data in Oklahoma is -- is flattening. And that's exactly what we wanted to do and wanted to accomplish. We are built -- we have 15 times the hospital beds that we need.

And so we feel good. We're obviously going to continue to watch it. And we will reserve the freedom to back up on some of these loosening if we -- if we see the trends move in the other direction.

CAVUTO: Governor Stitt, thank you very, very much. Good seeing you, sir.

STITT: You too. Thank you.

CAVUTO: All right.

In the meantime here, what is it with these meat and plant closings? If you add them up, in Texas and Pennsylvania and Iowa and South Dakota, they're investigating or shutting down plants entirely, the latest in Iowa.

Forget about the plants that are closing. What about the meat you might have trouble even buying?

After this.



SONNY PERDUE, U.S. AGRICULTURE SECRETARY: There is a concern over the food supply chain. If we don't have enough food processing workers to manage these plants, then that backs up our food supply.

This is a very synchronized, integrated, sophisticated supply chain, particularly when it comes to pork. That's why it's very important for these hogs to be able to leave the farm to be processed to get to our grocery stores in a very synchronized fashion.


CAVUTO: All right, that was less than 48 hours ago when I was talking to Sonny Perdue, the agricultural secretary.

And, hopefully -- he was hoping that this would be limited to what had happened in South Dakota, where the Smithfield processing plant shut down because workers there were exposed to the coronavirus.

But just since that time, we heard Iowa today closing its largest pork- producing plant. We have seen similar investigations and/or closures in Texas and in Pennsylvania, and on and on, we go. Cargill and Tyson are closing plants to address this issue, and, for the better part of valor, to make sure there are no risks involved.

But what would be the risk? And what are we really talking about here? And what will it mean to you? Far from some of these locales, will you be seeing it pop up in your grocery freezer, or not pop up? What if there's no meat or pork to be had? Could there be a supply shortage?

The supply chain itself, is it now compromised to the degree that you're going to have to really worry about it?

Stew Leonard Jr. runs Stew Leonard's in the greater New England area, and Connecticut, more namely. And they usually have all of this stuff in ample supply.

But, Stew, I got a wonder now whether it's getting or could get more difficult for you to get things like pork and things like just beef.  STEW LEONARD JR., PRESIDENT AND CEO, STEW LEONARD'S: Well, Neil, that's a great question right there.

And it's the big thing. I just spoke with all our buyers. This is a mask. You can see it's a law now, executive order here in Connecticut, New York, and New Jersey to wear these.

But it -- yesterday, you're right. I would have said, it's flowing in. And one of our main jobs is full shelves here at Stew Leonard's. And I was just talking to our meat buyer today, who said he is seeing some hiccups in the supply chain.

Fortunately, we buy from smaller family-owned supply -- suppliers and get it direct here to Stew Leonard's. So we haven't seen any hiccups yet. We have seven trailer loads of beef scheduled to arrive. I'm hoping they will be here and our -- for our customers.

CAVUTO: And we should stress, Stew, I don't want to alarm people here. We have checked with the Food and Drug Administration that this virus cannot pass through our food supply, even though there were a number of stricken workers in South Dakota and Iowa.

So, fears about that might be overblown. But that is the case for now.

I'm just wondering, though, do people not even care, that if there's a concern about it, even if you do have it, they don't want it?

LEONARD: Well, Neil, people care about their food. And now, with all the restaurants closed, people are eating home more.

And another thing that's growing like crazy is -- go ahead -- go ahead -- is Instacart shoppers. I'm sorry.

CAVUTO: No, you go ahead.

LEONARD: I'm in the store.

And -- but 25 percent of everybody you see in the store right now is shopping for home delivery right now. So that's a big thing.

I would say, as far as the food supply goes, right now, I feel comfortable that we can deliver food. I don't want to panic people. You're hearing about these store -- these plant closings right now.

There is a lot of food out on the market now. The restaurants are closed. That has shifted over to the supermarkets. So I don't think people should be alarmed about not buying food. I don't want to see another panic happen like happened two, three weeks ago.

Go ahead.


CAVUTO: Yes, and I remember you addressed that quickly to take care of your older shoppers, so that they had their own time to shop to avoid the hoarding that was going on. And touche to you for that.

I'm wondering, what are some of your biggest sellers? In other words, what do you have trouble just keeping on the shelves, because people just gravitate to it?

LEONARD: Well, since we're a fresh food type of business, right, I always - - I love to say it's a fresh product, but you know what it is? Toilet paper, the number one seller by far.

I had customers ask me for toilet paper and paper towel. They are stocking up on that.

The third biggie is hand sanitizer. And people are really looking for that. We got another trailer of that coming in tomorrow. Very hard to get right now.

And the other thing people are asking us for is gloves. They don't really help you that much.


LEONARD: But what it does is, it just makes it so I don't touch my face.

And another thing we're going to start selling is masks too. I think this is something that's just common now to sit around with a mask. All our shoppers have it. Our team members at Stew Leonard's have it. And so those are some of the hot sellers right now, along with pizzas.

CAVUTO: Got it.

LEONARD: Potatoes are selling, cream, butter, all your basics for baking.

People are staying home and eating right now.

CAVUTO: All right.

LEONARD: You can definitely see that. Prepared meals are hot right now.

CAVUTO: Got it.

The pizza thing, I can absolutely see.


CAVUTO: Stew, thank you very, very much.

Be well. Be safe. My best to all of your customers, Stew Leonard on all of that.

In the meantime, you probably heard that they settled their differences on this relief for small business. They packed a lot of other stuff in that as well.

Steve Scalise on his concerns going forward about packing still more spending in -- after this.


CAVUTO: All right, another, well, almost half-a-trillion dollars that the House will likely pass tomorrow. It calls for still more funding for the Paycheck Protection Program.

In fact, Republicans got a lot more than they originally were hoping for, about $320 billion worth, a separate $60 billion in other measures to back up loans and grants and that sort of thing, money in there for hospital, health care workers as well. Hence, we get to that nearly half-trillion- dollar price tag,.

Money well spent, according to my next guest, if we don't go crazy from here. Steve Scalise is the House minority whip. He joins us right now.

Congressman, always good to have you.

First of all, is it a given that the House passes this? You don't expect any bumps? We can always be surprised, but how does it stand?

REP. STEVE SCALISE (R-LA): Neil, this is going to pass tomorrow overwhelmingly.

And, look, the Paycheck Protection Program has been incredibly successful. It's been a lifeline to millions of workers out there. And I know Secretary Mnuchin estimates over 30 million workers are still on the job today that would have been unemployed, if not for this Paycheck Protection Program.

It's why President Trump pushed Congress weeks ago to put more money in it. We were pushing for that as well. And I know Speaker Pelosi played some games with it. I think, frankly, she got shamed into realizing, you can't play games with this program that's a lifeline to our small businesses and the millions of people that they employ.

So it will pass overwhelmingly tomorrow.

CAVUTO: Mitch McConnell more or less signaled today, Congressman, that we're all going to take a deep breath here and chill for a while -- I'm kind of paraphrasing it -- that no new big spending initiatives until we see how this goes.

Do you agree with that?

SCALISE: Yes, Neil, there are now trillions of dollars that are out there, in addition to what the Fed has been doing to put trillions more dollars into liquidity throughout our financial institutions, so that there is solvency, so that you don't see massive bankruptcies.

But at some point, you have got to let this work. You have got to -- in fact, let and encourage people to start thinking about getting back to work in a safer way, not a trade-off, Neil, between safety and economic health. You have to do both.

You can be safer as you look at how people are doing it, whether it's in grocery stores. They're going to be thinking about it in restaurants and other retail establishments. People want to get back to work. They want to be safe about it. They're not going to be risky about it.

But, at the same time, you can't just keep thinking you can shut the economy down for another month or two. You saw what happened in the energy industry. You see what's happening in the ag industry. You have major industries in this country on the verge of collapse if we keep doing this, because supply chains are breaking down.

They weren't built to have an entire economy shut down for months on end. So, you're seeing medicine advance. We need to get smarter about social distancing and washing our hands, things like that. But people have to start getting back to work and getting the economy going again.

CAVUTO: Still, there are others who are looking at going to the Washington well and seeing what they can get.

And Mitch McConnell had raised concerns that bailouts and all of that stuff, just hold the phone. And he even said that when it came to states looking for Washington for the equivalent of that.

That prompted this very angry response from New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy. I want you to listen to this.


GOV. PHIL MURPHY (D-NJ): Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky said earlier today that, in fact, it wouldn't be necessarily a bad idea for states to go bankrupt.

We won't go bankrupt, Senator, but we will leave our citizens in the lurch. At -- at their most profound hour of need, we will leave people on the beach alone helpless.

That is what will happen in New Jersey.

And I might add, Senator, without having spoken to your governor, that will happen in Kentucky. You have my word. So, watch your words, sir.


CAVUTO: What did you think of that, Congressman?

SCALISE: Well, first of all, nobody's leaving anybody on the beach.

And, in fact, that's why, tomorrow, you're going to see Congress come -- come back again, historically, to pass a fourth major relief package in less than two months, forth. And we're talking, again, trillions of dollars of money that have been spent to rescue our families, our small businesses, our hospitals, and, in fact, our states can get money as well.

I know the governor of New Jersey is going to see billions of dollars come in his coffers because of the package that we passed just a few weeks ago.

However, Neil -- and this is the important point -- states like New Jersey were in dire financial straits prior to COVID-19. This isn't some new experience for some of these large states. And it's really high-tax states that were seeing their economic base erode.

I mean, New Jersey, businesses were fleeing the state. And, frankly, a lot of their citizens were fleeing the states, like Florida, who had no income tax well, before COVID-19.

So, to try to think that you can kind of mask problems you had before and blame it on COVID-19 and think you're going to get a federal bailout, that's, I think, where Senator McConnell was talking about, is that we're trying to help states who are reeling because of this crisis, but don't try to roll in your previous crisis that you created because of high taxes and really bad policies that were running -- literally running businesses and families out of your state.

And we know those states, by the way, where that was happening. You could just look at the numbers. They don't lie. And those states had problems prior to this.

We're helping families and businesses get through this in every state. And a state like New Jersey is probably benefiting more than most right now.

CAVUTO: All right, Congressman Scalise, thank you very, very much.

As always, to be fair on this, we always have invited Governor Murphy to come on our show. Crickets.

We will have more after this.


CAVUTO: All right, bit by bit, it is coming back.

In California, they're going to resume scheduled and elective surgeries during the virus outbreak. This is the first significant change of that stay-at-home order. Other states have been doing similar things. Changes afoot.

We're back after this.


CAVUTO: I love seeing that, because with our health workers and everyone else who puts everything on the line so selflessly, it's a reminder that there's a lot of good that comes out of this.

And I hope when people get scared and everything else, they put that in perspective, that a lot of good is coming out of this.

We will get into that in just a second here.

We are wanting to update you, though, on the CDC concerns, as you have heard, that there could be another wave of this in the late fall, early winter, the CDC director saying the potential is there for that, and you might want to guard for that or get at least prepared for that.

Sometimes, a very commonsense thing to do is to get the flu shot later on, so that you are at least ready for that and dealing with the common flu itself.

Dr. Nicole Saphier joins us right now with a read on that. Her book, "Make America Healthy Again," is out, and it's all the buzz. She has a lot of practical advice and just commonsense things you have to do. She always reminds me of stupid things, like eat healthy, exercise, all that. Whatever.

Anyway, Dr. Saphier, it's always good to have you.

What do you make these directives now that we're getting, just for the better part of valor, to be safe, go ahead, get a flu shot, be prepared for the possibility we could be looking at a -- either a recurrence or new wave of this virus.

It gets scary to a lot of folks. Should we be scared?

DR. NICOLE SAPHIER, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, of course, when you hear the CDC director say that it -- we could be seeing this again next season, it could be even worse than it is right now, people are panicking, because we have millions of people out of work right now.

We have tens of thousands of death with COVID-19. So, it is scary. So we have to break it down a little bit. And it can really be broken down by looking at the numbers.

During a normal flu season, from August to the following May, you can have 400,000 to 700,000 people go into the hospital because of the flu. And that's about the estimate that we saw this year alone. And, right now, in just the last two-and-a-half months, we have had over 100,000 people hospitalized with COVID-19.

That is why we had to have makeshift beds in Central Park and on ships, because we had a lot of people already in the hospital already from the flu. So we didn't have enough room for those COVID-19 patients, and not to mention the flu, but all of the chronic illnesses that America suffers from.

And we have seen in just -- JAMA just this week posted an article that said over 95 percent of people who either died or had COVID-19, the severity of the illness, had coexisting comorbidities, or preexisting illnesses, which kind of renders us vulnerable.

So, when we're talking about next season, sometimes, these viral infections can die out, and we don't really see a resurgence in them. But this is a very highly -- very contagious virus. And so the chance of it dying out just after this one round is probably low.

So it's likely going to be here next season. So, instead of just cold and flu season, it's probably going to be cold, flu and corona season.

But the good news is, Neil, that there are some things that we can do to make us more prepared for it, so that we aren't shut down, the way that we are right now. And you already alluded to some of them.

One of the biggest things we can do is actually getting the flu shot. Less than 40 percent of adults actually get the flu shot. But if you do get the flu shot, not only are you protecting yourself and those around you from the flu, but now you're keeping hospital beds open for those that may need it because of COVID-19.

So that is why they keep saying, you should get the flu shot. And if you're elderly or have chronic lung disease, you should also get the pneumonia vaccine.

But I am actually really optimistic, Neil, because I think everyone has a much greater awareness right now of washing their hands and not touching their face. And all of a sudden, people really look at people find me if someone's sneezing or coughing, and that's OK, especially during cold and flu season.

CAVUTO: No, you're right about that.

SAPHIER: So, I actually think Americans are going to come out a lot stronger after all of this.

CAVUTO: Well, I hope so. And I think you're right.

I do wonder, on the flu shot, it might be a dumb question, but if I had one earlier this year, Doctor, and now I'm hearing the CDC making a recommendation, and you just making a recommendation to get a flu shot at the end of this year, is that one too many? Or what are you saying?

SAPHIER: So, actually, the recommendation, Neil, is that you a flu shot once a year, once a season.

But, usually, we say try and get that flu shot towards the end of summer, early into the fall, because flu season does actually start in August. So, the best time to get it is around that time. And it's supposed to last the whole season, as long as it is.

But we have to remember that we saw 400,000 to 700,000 hospitalizations from the flu, but we did actually see a decrease in flu hospitalizations, since everybody's been hunkering down at home. So the possibility is, we could have had a lot more hospitalizations from the flu, had we just allowed people out right now.

Here's the big concern for me, Neil, is that we tend to see a flu spike in December. That is when most people are at home. That is when there's a lot of gatherings for the holidays, families getting together, a lot of travel happening.

So, if we also have COVID-19 virus circulating during that time, we're going to see a lot of community spread. So I think we have to be really smart in how we handle holiday season this year. I don't want everybody to have to be doing it digitally. But I think we have to be a lot smarter as to what we're doing, especially while we still have this novel coronavirus circulating, and we don't have proven treatments or a vaccine yet.

CAVUTO: All right, Doctor, thank you very, very much, Dr. Nicole Saphier, "Make America Healthy Again."

She makes you think about the stuff that you sometimes maybe don't like to think about, like eating right and exercising and all that. That's another show and another segment.

In the meantime, you have seen these protests going all around the country right now, and that a lot of people criticize, these protesters have no argument to make of getting real close for comfort in here.

But they might be making a legal case here that no less than the attorney general of the United States agrees could be worth a lawsuit.


CAVUTO: All right, in the next hour, getting ready for the president's health task force briefing.

John Roberts at the White House, what we might be learning today -- John.


One of the things we're going to be learning is about the president's executive order on immigration. Sometime before the end of the day, the president expected to sign an executive order which would put an initial 60-day pause on certain types of green cards.

The president says there's a couple of reasons why he wants to do this. He wants to prevent new people from coming into the country and taking jobs that he believes should go to people who are in the country already as the nation begins to reopen, and, as well, he wants to protect access for Americans to the health care system.

Here's how the president put it:


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We want to protect our U.S. workers. And I think, as we move forward, we will become more and more protective of them.

This pause on new immigration will also help to conserve vital medical resources for American citizens. A short break from new immigration, depending on the time we're talking about, will protect the solvency of our health care system.


ROBERTS: Democrats, not surprisingly, critical of the move.

Presidential candidate Joe Biden in a statement saying: "Rather than execute a swift and aggressive effort to ramp up testing, Donald Trump is tweeting incendiary rhetoric about immigrants, in the hopes that he can distract everyone from the core truth: He's moved too slowly to contain this virus, and we are all paying the price for it."

Now, we just got some information about how this is all going to work. It's going to prevent the entry of new green card holders from abroad. What it basically does is, it puts diversity lottery green cards, work green cards and chain migration hold.

And you will remember, these were all things the president wanted to do through legislation. This doesn't affect people who will come into the country temporarily or people who are already in the country in the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services program. And it doesn't include migrant farmworkers who farmers rely on desperately to pick crops.

And as those crops begin to mature, they're going to be needed this summer. Here's what the president said about that:


KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: So, I want to emphasize that President Trump approach this in a very smart and measured way. This affects green card holders, not temporary workers.

So, hotels, for instance, landscapers, these types of jobs will not be affected. But what President Trump has said is this. We're at a time where the American worker must come first.


ROBERTS: Well, that wasn't President Trump, but she speaks for President Trump. That's the new press secretary, Kayleigh McEnany.

As for what's coming up at the coronavirus briefing, Neil, other than immigration, there's not a whole lot out there. I mean, we might hear more about reopenings, the anticipated resurgence in the coronavirus in the fall, likely more about testing.

Stay tuned. That's going to happen sometime, usually about 5:30 or so, quarter to 6:00.

CAVUTO: All right, thank you, John Roberts, very, very much.

Meanwhile, on these lockdowns, can some of them go too far? Certainly, a lot of protesters think so. Now, apparently, the attorney general of the United States thinks those protesters might have a case.


CAVUTO: Can some of these state lockdown measures go too far?

Well, in a dozen states and cities across the country, with these protests, they say, yes, they have, and they want to get back to doing what they want to do.

But no less than the attorney general United States that some states do indeed go too far, and he can picture taking legal action against them if they don't change their ways, whatever that means.

Andy McCarthy is the former assistant U.S. attorney.

Again, interpreting what he said is risky for me. I'm no lawyer. And you're a great one. Is he saying that, if governors add on or do things that go beyond what they originally intended, is he focusing on those, or what?

ANDREW MCCARTHY, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Neil, what he's saying is that, when the government regulates your fundamental rights, which include your right of free association, free exercise of religion, your right to work in many ways, they have to narrowly tailor their restrictions so that it's the least restrictive way of burdening your fundamental right.

And the Justice Department has already intervened in a case in Greenville, Mississippi, on behalf of religious believers who were being denied the right to do communal observance of Easter.

So it's not like this is a threat in the air. This is something they have already done. And I think the most important thing he said, Neil, especially for what you have been covering today, is, it's not your burden, as an American, to show that your job is essential. It's their burden -- that is, the government's burden -- to show that your job can't be operated safely before they can shut it down.

And as we move to this phase one, I think that's going to be very important.

CAVUTO: But a lot of these governors were led no less by the president of the United States, who recommended these stay-at-home provisions, not as robustly as some of the governors, I grant you, argue, it is our job to kind of keep you safe and not put you in harm's way or risk your life or others.

So, when these protesters gather, and in tight crowds of the rest, are they actually doing a disservice to their very protest? And what is a governor's responsibility there?

MCCARTHY: Yes, well, the thing is, Neil, they have multiple responsibilities.

One interest that the state has is public health. The other interest the state has, or an other interest, the main reason the state was created was to protect the liberties and the fundamental freedoms of Americans. And those things clash.

I think what the attorney general is saying is, at the first phase of a crisis, it makes every bit of good sense to ratchet up the restrictions until we can get our arms around what we're dealing with, but you continually have an obligation to tailor the restrictions down as you move from phase to phase.

And what he's saying is, we're now moving from the bend the curve phase to the reopening the economy phase. You're still going to have this clash of rights, but the government has to tailor their restrictions down.

CAVUTO: But they're also risking potential lives or spike in cases.

And I know this is something that the framers of the Constitution could never have envisioned. I get that. But where do you balance that off, between life and livelihood?


Well, what he said, and I think this is right, Neil, is that it's the nature of executive power that they have a lot of power in order to restrict, where it's necessary to restrict, on behalf of public health. But it's also flexible federal power.

And it's like the flexible executive power between the states and the federal government. And the idea is that there's no magic formula because the situation's dynamic. And a good executive has to continually react to the changing conditions and the changing goals.

CAVUTO: All right.

MCCARTHY: If they have tamped down here, if they have bent the curve, and we're going to try to reopen the economy, they have to regulate with that in the front of their minds.

CAVUTO: With that and then that improvement and that curve, and then clear proof that.

Now, the discrepancy seems to be -- thank you, Andy, very, very much -- is how long that curve has to last -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)  CAVUTO: All right, ahead of the White House briefing here, I do want to give you a peek at what happened at the corner of Wall and Broad today, a nice, smart run-up here.

It didn't make up everything we lost yesterday, but a lot of it was built on higher energy prices, which the markets have been hoping for, because they have gotten very, very low. Tomorrow, anyone's guess.

That will do it for now.

Here's "THE FIVE."

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