Baltimore remains calm after first night of mandatory curfew
Most residents obey overnight curfew
This is a rush transcript from "The Five," April 29, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Eric Bolling and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."
Signs of normalcy return to Baltimore today. Streets have been relatively quiet and school reopened. But law enforcement remain on guard as night fall approaches. At least 35 arrests have been made since last night's 10:00 p.m. curfew went into effect. We have Fox coverage with the very latest in the embattled city.
Leland Vittert, Geraldo Rivera and Rick Leventhal are going to join us in A-block. We begin with Leland with information of a possible stand down order from the city's mayor to police on Monday night, Leland.
LELAND VITTERT, FOX NEWS CORRRESPONDENT: Oh, Dana, it goes a long like this. That has been on Monday as the riots began, police had some very different orders than they normally have. My source tells me and it's a senior law enforcement source involved in trying to deal with these riots from the very beginning, that they were told by the mayor, the direct quote is, "let them loot, it's only property." And the video tells a very telling tale. This is where I was standing on Monday night. This store behind me was looted. The liquor store across the street over there was looted and it went on for hours. The other liquor store, the green building right there was looted as well. I'm going to show you when all of that was happening, the police were standing the whole time. Just about at the top of the hill up there, they watched it all happen and did nothing, Dana, and my source tells me that that was a direct order from the mayor down to the chief of police and then down to through their police force to let this happen on Monday. Let the brick throwing happen, let the rioting happen, and those kinds of things. I'm also told by two additional law enforcement sources that on Saturday, some officers were ordered not to put on certain protective gear and a lot of folks that end up getting hurt by the rocks and bottles and bricks being thrown at them, because they've been ordered not to put on the protective gear by the Baltimore police, Dana.
PERINO: Greg.
GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: I was going to bring that up, Leland. To this is my obvious conclusion. If they were told not to use the riot gear and the riot gear was -- or in short supply, you have a number of police officers who are in the hospital. Did their injuries result from not wearing the riot helmets because, they were so fearful of it looking militarized, that they put the police officers at risks? They rather have cops in the hospital than come on the streets.
VITTERT: I'm certainly told that on Saturday, there were a number of orders that went down about what police officers were allowed to wear. You might remember on Saturday also had a lot of bricks coming in, those kinds of things. And I'm told that the police were allowed to use their riot shields and their helmets, but were not allowed to use that they called their turtle suits. And those are those big suits that protect you against bottles and rocks and bricks and those kinds of things, provide some kind of cushion. I'm told that the Baltimore police ordered a number of officers, including those who were coming from other places to just simply try and help to not wear those protective uniforms. Obviously, that changed over the next couple of days, especially as we saw on Tuesday when the police finally decided to really lay down the law.
ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Leland, so Mayor Rawlings-Blake at one point had said, maybe she hasn't that -- that wasn't the case. She pushed back on what you are reporting, but then again she also said she didn't say let them -- give them room to destroy stuff after the 24-hour, after she actually did say that. We've also heard that she said not only the stand down order but, let them loot. It's only property. Now did you hear that or is someone else reporting that?
VITTERT: No. But this is what my source is telling me and the two things. One, the let them loot, destroy property is a quote attributed directly to the mayor by my source. And the second part of this is that there was a true stand down order that on Monday there was an order that went down from the top. I mean the mayor to the chief of police and down to the intimate (ph) commanders all around here who were dealing with these riot teams. That they were not supposed to engage the protesters or rioters, looters, thugs, call them whatever you want, that they would to be allowed to loot. And the proof is really in the video, guys, and the fact that the police were 75 yards up there and there was looting and mayhem going on right here. You might remember the burning cars right here in this intersection and then the looting of that liquor store over there along with other places as proof that the police just sat there and watched and did absolutely nothing.
PERINO: Kimberly?
KIMBELRY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Yeah, Leland, the problem is you're talking about an issue of proximate cause, because I want to go back to the issue that Greg brought up, which is about the injuries, because this to me is really indefensible. You are asking people to go and put their life on the line every day, going out especially in a situation like this, which it was very obvious that it was a rapidly escalating. Police officers not able to wear the proper gear like -- who is going to get to the bottom of this in terms of the responsibility and who was the one that made the call and in fact, was the mayor even responding to any direction from the White House or the DOJ?
VITTERT: No information in terms of whether this came from the White House or the DOJ or why the mayor or may or may have ordered this procedure to be put into place. But certainly on Saturday, I'm told by two law enforcement officers who were on the front lines that they were told, don't put on these protective suits and they looked at me and they said, three of our buddies were hurt and had to be taken care of, simply because they were told not to put these suits on because of the optics of the situation. In - - in some ways, you have to wonder what is more important to the mayor. The health and the safety -- not only of her officers but remember, their police officers, hundreds if not thousands, from all of the mid-Atlantic who come to Baltimore to try and restore calm to this city, who clearly up until at least a while ago, weren't allowed to fully protect themselves, and -- in their words, simply take it.
JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Well, Leland -- first, you know I think you've just been doing a great job. Leland is my roommate in D.C. and Leland, I can tell you, I bet your folks are just beaming with pride over the job you've been doing for Fox, so congratulations. But I wanted to ask, the mayor said to Bill -- Bill Hemmer, that she was responding appropriately, especially given that so many of the young people, you know teenagers were involved. Do you give any credence to that?
VITTERT: Juan, I don't ever like to disagree with the guy I share an office with. I think my parents were probably a little bit more petrified at times than thrilled but, to answer your question, I don't give a lot of credence to it and here's why. The folks who were looting these stores and the five- finger discounts on any -- from tennis shoes and leather jackets, to liquor, they were thugs for lack of a better term. This wasn't some kind of free-for-all going on. This was a mob action. And second of all, the police were up there. There were hundreds of police officers that we saw on the streets that night. They had riot gear. They had less than lethal weapons to use. They had bean bags, they had tear gas, they had everything else going on then they had that arsenal to be able to use to disperse this crowd without causing any real harm. The people who were doing this aren't wayward teenagers who got excited. These people were really involved in an extreme amount of violence. And remember, Juan, not only were they going after these liquor stores, they were stealing cars, crashing them into each other, they were a huge explosion there, my crew almost got ran down with a car. This was mayhem and lawlessness on the streets of Baltimore that was allowed to go on, untold by my source at the order of the mayor.
PERINO: All right. Thanks, Leland. Geraldo Rivera had attempted to exchange last night while covering the protests last night on Fox News. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GERALDO RIVERA, FOX NES CORRESPONDENT: The deadline has come -- the deadline has come and now we will see if the people clear. I'm with the state senate majority leader. Pew, come on. Get out of the way, man. Get out of the way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't touch me. I ain't touching you.
RIVERA: Well, you -- you some blocking my camera. Stop blocking my camera. Come on.
(CROSSTALK)
RIVERA: Come on, stop it.
(CROSSTALK)
RIVERA: Just stop it. You're making a fool of yourself.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. I'm making a fool of myself?
RIVERA: You're making a fool of yourself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: All right. Do they expect things to be calmer in the city tonight? Let's ask him. Geraldo joins us now. Geraldo, tell us what is going on over there.
RIVERA: Well, Dana, the people are milling about, not nearly the numbers that tend to happen after nightfall. The police are in a very casual mode right now, Dana. They haven't gone their -- their shields or their heavy equipment yet. They kind of lounging around, as the people are. The test, of course, will come as we approach the curfew hour. Certainly, after nightfall, 8:30 p.m., 9 o'clock, we'll get a better read on whether or not the tension level will rise to the height of last night or worse, Monday night. Right now, I have to tell you that there is -- it's not a festive air. At least there is one of -- maybe, nervous anticipation. There are preachers on the corner. You might hear them -- the megaphones in the background. Many grown-ups are around, young people, too. School was back in session. They are trying to resume some kind of normalcy in this stricken city, but the scars, really, Dana, run deep. There are a lot of people now with --with grievances, with thieves, not just about Freddie Gray, it's almost as the TV comes the background sound for people acting out, some real frustrations -- frustration bordering on rage, Dana.
PERINO: Eric?
BOLLING: So, so, around the week -- we saw you yesterday, and it was almost a similar type of shot. You were in front of city hall, very calm, very quiet. How did you find yourself in the middle of -- such a -- you know, kind of an agitated crowd and was the camera the cause of the agitation?
RIVERA: You know that is always the beef about the news media, whether people are playing to the news, the cameras, whether the lights agitate or incite, are we here to film the demonstrators or all the demonstrators here because of us. You know I've been the business almost 45 years and I still have no answer to that, to that riddle. But the fact of the matter is, in this city, in this city that is maybe 20, 30 years behind, say, New York, in terms of its social evolution. This is a city trapped in the '70s. It's never recovered from the Martin Luther King riots of April 1968. You walk down the streets, row upon row of derelict housing. So many young people here are involved in drugs. We met a bunch of them just a while ago. The real government, the -- parents here are bloods and crisps and some of these other are drug dealers. They are the surrogates for the broken families. This is a problem that is festering and is lying invisible until we have one of these violent outbursts. You know, I don't know whether the mayor ordered the police to stand down or not. I don't know if they had enough officers on Monday night. I wasn't here on Monday night. But I can tell you that the rage that I saw last night, the frustration, that's, that's legit. However, inappropriate, illegal and absolutely intolerable the violence was.
PERINO: Juan?
WILLIAMS: You know, Geraldo. So what -- what I understand last night, you had helicopters over the city announcing the curfew and then you had some people who were defying the curfew and had to be arrested. What did you see there?
RIVERA: Well, this was the line right here. The line was right behind me. The police shields, what they did was try to contain the crowd in a relatively limited geographic area and they succeeded. They said, this far and no further. What you saw was, at the curfew approached and then passed, was a handful of agitators and in my view, they seemed largely young people, like the young man so angry at me and at Fox news. He was acting out a kind of -- maybe he was acting also, just - and rather than acting out, just a stage act thing, in a sense. It was so sad, in a way, so melancholy to see the fight real go. The cameras will go, whether we're agitating or recording, we will leave. But these folks will all still be here. Now, when is the next time we'll talk about inner city Baltimore and the fact that unemployment among these young people is north of 35 percent, that there are virtually no fathers in these homes living with the mothers of their children. This is -- this is a crisis that is largely invisible. You know, I deplore this violence. I condemn it. That young man was in my face and I -- I stood my ground. Still, I understand the frustration. I've been around long enough that I - I get it and I wonder where we go from here in anyway.
WILLIAMS: Well, I think you were right on target with talking about so many of the underlying kind of quiet riot situation that we don't cover. That's a fact, Geraldo.
PERINO: Kimberly?
RIVERA: You know -- we, we have -- breaking up a little bit. We have our -- rights, too. I have the right to be a reporter and to be here. I have a press pass. We have a camera. We have millions of people tuning in to Fox News to see what the reality is. We tell the story straight. I've given these folks plenty of opportunity to vent their frustration and their anger, but I will not -- I tell you, if I were the mayor, I would not have permitted what happened on Monday night, but maybe it's easy to be a Monday night quarterback.
GUILFOYLE: Right.
RIVERA: So back to you.
GUILFOYLE: Geraldo, you know having prosecuted so many cases, including with the juvenile offenders, and I've seen 14, 16, 17-year-olds do some pretty horrible things. I just -- you know, to for people just to say, there's just young people out there. Well, there are young people out there that arming themselves with weapons against the police department, and whether they are frustrated by what's happening in the community or lack of opportunity, it's still not a justification to commit lawless acts of violence against the police department or against property or store owners, families that have worked really hard to try and make a living for themselves. I think that's the problem. I hear too much of the dismissiveness and I'm not saying from you, from people saying, whether there's young people out there, from the mayor and -- that to me is not a good enough excuse. When you've got a 14, 15, or 16-year-old with a one- pound brick hurling it at an officer, that isn't even in proper equipment, that's not OK.
RIVERA: That is why the mother, Mrs. Graham, is the hero. That's what we need. The parents that take charge of their own children, families that take responsibility for themselves. We need these folks to have the dignity and self-esteem.
GUILFOYLE: Right.
RIVERA: To go forward through the difficulties in life and improve their lot in life.
GUTFELD: Geraldo, has the mayor visited the injured cops yet?
RIVERA: I haven't seen the mayor, but I believe she has been here, but I don't know if she's visited with the officers. But you know what, what is fascinating and frustrating and showing you the complexity of this situation, a black mayor, black police commissioner, black majority in city government and yet you still have this (inaudible), you still have this disconnect between these folks and what is happening downtown at city hall. This is something that -- where is the president of the United States? He spoke out in anguish and talked about how awful it is the police killings, I agree. That's why I advocate that every police killing be a presumed federal civil rights offense. A rebuttable presumption, let's the feds look at everyone who dies in police custody. However, these folks have a responsibility to police themselves as well. That's why that mom is my hero. She is the parent of the year and she should be, I think, TIME magazine's man of the year, back to you.
PERINO: Thank you, Geraldo. For the first time in MLB history today, a ball game was played in an empty stadium. Rick Leventhal joins us now with the highlights from the quiet Orioles White Sox game earlier at Camdem Yards.
RICK LEVENTHAL, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Dana, at first in 145-year history of Major League Baseball, the official attendants for today's game between the Orioles and White Sox was zero. And this was as close as fans we got, this fence and we saw about 30, 40 fans gather outside the fence, while the game inside was being played in front of no one except players, coaches and media and some security. You see groundskeeper on the field there. The game was very fast. It only lasted 2 hours and 3 minutes. I heard some people on the radio suggesting that perhaps Major League Baseball would look at that, as the fact that the fans are actually slowing down these games. Because, the Orioles won 8 to 2, it's not that they weren't any runs being scored. There was just no one in the stance. It was a short game, an important game for the team, because they had cancelled and postponed two others earlier this week. And one, to get this one today and they postponed or pushed the weekend series with the double raise, down (inaudible) a base. So, there -- there are four home games where they selling zero tickets here in Baltimore, and there is been plenty of talk about the money that is being lost by the team, by the city in terms of revenue from the tickets, from the concessions, the local businesses that would be selling beers right now. And there is also talk, Dana, that perhaps they -- they were acted a little too hastily, because, yes. Things were really bad Monday night and they made a decision on Tuesday. But last night was fine. Today, things are very calm in Baltimore. It certainly, it looks like they could have gotten the game in without any issues.
PERINO: All right. I hope they are going forward, it's all going to be all right. Thanks, Rick. Much more to come this hour on the unrest in Baltimore, next, a Vietnam vet with a powerful message for the violent protesters and the mom who publicly disciplined her rioting son reveals what was going through her mind during that now infamous smack-down, stay tuned.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUTFELD: The riots reveal the difference between real and fake sympathy.
You feel real sympathy for the woman watching her place of work get destroyed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They didn't have to burn down the store like that. This is our home guys, it is destroyed. Guys, they destroyed our neighborhood. Stop the violence, please! We don't need this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: Terrible.
GUTFELD: You feel real sympathy for the anguished veteran watching his city burn.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT VALENTINE, VETERAN: I love my country. I love my Charm City and I'm an American. I'm not black, white, red and yellow, no, I am American.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: Real sympathy is for the mom trying to pull her son away from a doomed future.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TOYA GRAHAM, MOTHER OF BALTIMORE RIOTER: (beep) Get the (beep) over here. Get over here now!
(END VIDEO CLIP) GUTFELD: She's a bleeping hero.
So what is fake sympathy? Well, attributing the riots to rage despite the glee, the laughter, their age. Fake sympathy sells the myth of a city that snapped when the attacks were actually planned. Fake sympathy is a media indulging grievance and acting shock when everything burns. Sorry, the citizens find no comfort in your enlightened analysis.
Fake sympathy is the politicians demanding more cash as they ignore the underlying crisis. They prefer money over morality. It's the benevolent racism shielding decline with a demand for more -- in effect, rewarding destruction. Fake sympathy is the creeps who find the word "thug" more evil than rioting, or slime like Salon's Benji Hart who claim destruction is a legit tactic. Benji, tweet your address so we can try it out on you.
All this sympathy is fake, because its purveyors pretend crime is rooted in anger, not opportunity. Anger exists, but those who care don't torch their town. They operate within a morality that guides their actions. Good people suddenly don't turn bad.
So what you saw was no uprising but the death of sympathy where youngsters, free of family structure, untethered to consequence, just don't give a damn, because they don't have to.
K.G., you're a mom.
GUILFOYLE: That's true, I am.
GUTFELD: I going to -- let's just show a little bit of that mother explaining her actions -- publicly, went after her kid. And I wanna go to you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GRAHAM: I could see the objects being thrown at the police and I was in like an awe, like oh, my God -- you know, this is really happening right here with me and lo and behold, I turn around and I look in this crowd and my son is actually coming across the street with this hoodie on and a mask. At that point, I just lost it. That's my only son. And at the end of the day, I don't want him to be a Freddie Gray.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: Kimberly, has she just reinvigorated the argument for corporal punishment?
GUILFOYLE: Oh my, God. No side stepping. Point is I like where she is coming from. She's coming from passion. She had a tremendous love for her son. She said that is my only son. She want to see him go on, to have a great future in America, not be collateral damage or a victim of consequence, because he's in the wrong place at the wrong time, part of the problem committing acts of violence against the police department. That's not we learn this stuff when we are little, right? With two wrongs don't make a right. Freddie Gray died. Let's investigate. Let's find out why, let's make sure it doesn't happen again. Put a stop to it. Are there rough rides going on? What's happening? Let's find out. Let's do it the right way, because we do have laws in place to re-address these kinds of wrongs. She's doing what she can as a parent, which is another part of the equation, to make sure that she is living a life of consequence and that her son doesn't learn the lesson in this moment in time that is OK to commit acts of violence and damage other people's properties. That's what she's trying to teach him about tough love.
WILLIAMS: You know the most powerful thing I heard from her was she doesn't want her son to be Freddie Gray.
GUTFELD: Yes.
WILLIAMS: That was pretty awesome.
GUILFOYLE: True.
WILLIAMS: And I -- I, you know, I just think what Kimberly said is on target and I hear it from her as a mom. But I just feel so deeply myself -- that you know, it was so important for her to make a clear statement to her son, but I think to children all over this country who come from single parent families and who may have been enticed, whether it's by gangs or you know, e-mails or all of the Twitter that was going on. You know what this is true. This is the way to destroy your future.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah.
WILLIAMS: Now, I do have an argument with you but, I don't think this was anything to do actually with Freddie Gray. I think that's a distortion to me. I think these were kids who were acting out, exploit, taking advantage of this opportunity.
GUILFOYLE: You could said (ph) that.
GUTFELD: I agree.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: Violent.
GUTFELD: I agree, completely.
WILLIAMS: OK.
GUTFELD: Yeah, yeah, I do. I was probably -- you probably thought when I was talking about the media, I was talking about me. But I'm not really the media. I'm above it.
(LAUGHTER)
GUTFELD: All right. Eric, Robert Valentine, the veteran. He, he seems to me like a voice of the past living in the present and going what's happening?
BOLLING: Voice of reason, though.
GUTFELD: Yes.
BOLLING: On the mother --
GUTFELD: Yeah.
BOLLING: Look at the kid, too. Don't just look at the mom. Look at the kid. He -- you could tell he knew he was wrong --
GUTFELD: Yes.
BOLLING: This wasn't a kid --
PERINO: Just like, oh, I'm busted.
BOLLING: Who's lived a life of a bad kid or as -- President Obama uses the word, a thug. This was a kid who probably started to go wrong right there and she stopped it in his tracks.
GUILFOYLE: She shut it down.
BOLLING: Or, she shut it down right away, and that's what you need. Bring in the moms, I totally agree. On the Salon piece --
GUTFELD: Yeah.
BOLLING: Burning police cars and destroying private property is a legitimate political strategy. Lamont Hill saying, if the riots are not riots, but they're just an uprising -- nothing says social justice like -- you know burning out a building or flipping a police car --
GUTFELD: Yes.
GUILFOYLE: What is wrong with Lamont?
BOLLING: What is wrong with those?
GUTFELD: Yeah. But the point is, they -- CVS isn't run by cops.
WILLIAMS: No, no. I mean --
(LAUGHTER)
WILLIAMS: And who has served, and who works there.
GUTFELD: Yes.
GUILFOYLE: Terrible.
WILLIAMS: You know and guess what? It's a franchise, probably black-owned you know. They have to struggle to get this kind of businesses into our neighborhood.
GUTFELD: Yes.
GUILFOYLE: To our people getting their prescriptions, the elderly people --
WILLIAMS: Well --
GUILFOYLE: In the community. I mean, it's just, it's so upsetting to me that people would do just destroy -- you just burned your own house down. How do you feel about it?
GUTFELD: Dana?
PERINO: Oh, I would say, hardest job in America is being a single mom. There are a lot of them and a lot of them in Baltimore and I think that they absolutely do their best. They can't keep continue to do their best if businesses flee the city.
GUTFELD: Right.
PERINO: If they can't keep it safe, then there's nobody -- no one going to be there. And I think what she was thinking in her -- she probably wasn't thinking of this exactly but, she's thinking, I don't want my son to be Freddie Gray. I want my son to be Dr. Ben Carson.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah.
PERINO: Because she grew up in Baltimore, the single mom, and she as was able to produce one of the world's best neurosurgeons --
WILLIAMS: But he's not right --
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: Run for president.
WILLIAMS: I don't think he grew up in Baltimore --
PERINO: I'm sorry, excuse me.
WILLIAMS: Yeah.
GUTFELD: You know what drives me crazy is --
GUILFOYLE: Similar.
PERINO: Yeah.
GUTFELD: This is -- this phrase is being used as a buttress against any kind of criticism. See if you can guess what it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There will be some Monday morning quarterbacking on whether they had enough officers out on patrol given Freddie Gray's funeral yesterday.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's easy to Monday morning quarterback.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of course, of course.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Or Tuesday in this case.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think it should have been? Do you think any of what we saw last night could have ever been prevented?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right. I think we actually are not Monday morning quarter backing.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: I'm Monday morning quarterbacking, but that is what we often do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: See, at least Don Lemon is honest. Monday -- if you can't Monday morning quarterback, then incompetence prevails. You have to tell incompetence when they are incompetent.
PERINO: And there are consequences for it.
GUTFELD: And there are consequences.
PERINO: Monday morning -- quarterbacking.
GUTFELD: Quarterbacking.
PERINO: Basically needs that you can say whatever you want, and there are no consequences.
GUTFELD: Yes. Coming up, did Baltimore's mayor order police to stand down on Monday Night, while protesters attacked them and destroyed the city? New information, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BOLLING: On Monday night, hours after the funeral of Freddie Gray, police in Baltimore were violently attacked, pelted with bottles and rocks, stores were looted and buildings were burned down. Did the city's mayor allow it to happen?
As we reported earlier, a senior law enforcement source tells FOX News Mayor Rawlings-Blake did, in fact, give a direct order to her police chief for officers to stand down. She denied it on America's Newsroom earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So there was no order to hold back?
STEPHANIE RAWLINGS-BLAKE, MAYOR OF BALTIMORE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Or was there?
RAWLINGS-BLAKE: No. But you have be -- you have to understand, it's not holding back. It's responding appropriately.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To those who would suggest that you screwed this up, what would you say?
RAWLINGS-BLAKE: People have a right to their opinion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: Well, this is the same mayor who admitted this weekend she instructed police to give protesters enough, quote, "space to destroy." Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani, for one, would have handled things much differently.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: You shouldn't allow a cooling-off period. You should arrest the first person who throws a rock. You should arrest the first person who breaks a window. You should arrest the first person who tries to burn something.
People have a right to protest; they have a right to make their opinion. They can be very upset about what they consider to be a murder of a person in custody, but you cannot destroy property. First person does it goes to jail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: K.G., if you want -- that was a fantastic interview this morning with Rudy.
GUILFOYLE: Yes.
BOLLING: He said his police were instructed, the first person that throws a rock gets arrested. The second, third and fourth get arrested, as well. He said don't give them any room. It's a fallacy; it's a wrong way to live.
GUILFOYLE: I think he's right. It's sort of like a tipping point of policing. You say, listen, you know, if the first guy throws it, it's OK for you? Then what, it's OK for her to throw a punch? It's OK for them to attack, you know, somebody with a bottle? No. You have to jump on it right away, say, "We will have a zero tolerance policy."
What gives you the right to I injure, to hurt, to maim, to incite, to destroy? There is no lawful right to do that. You can use your words. You cannot go ahead and use your hands to commit acts of violence or destruction of property. No way.
BOLLING: Juan, can we learn from this now and say that this cooling-off period or room to destroy is a bad idea going forward?
WILLIAMS: I think it was a terrible idea. I must say, this is very interesting because, you know, look, I don't put property over human life, OK? So I mean, if you want to destroy property, I don't approve of it. But if she is saying that she felt like, you know, this was going to lead to a violent conversation between police and these criminals, is what they are, then I understand what she was doing. You know, Jesse Jackson...
GUILFOYLE: No, no, no, no, no.
BOLLING: What do you mean, you understand what she was doing?
WILLIAMS: Well, because, look, she wants -- she did not want this to blow up into some kind of...
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: So let them destroy property? Let them burn buildings down?
WILLIAMS: ... the community. I just told you I thought she made a mistake, didn't I?
GUILFOYLE: Well, it ended up to be an accelerant on the situation instead of calming things down.
PERINO: I'm not -- OK. I'm not taking her side, necessarily. However, I do think that, because of the previous situations that she's seen in other cities, in her way, she was trying to get ahead of it. And it was a mistake. And I think she -- I think she's basically admitting that. But she's also having to focus on the fact that they have to deal with the situation right now.
The thing I wonder about this, is that it wasn't a spontaneous eruption. It was like having a five-day forecast of a major natural disaster that is coming. So there was time to prepare and to get advice from people that surround you, like your chief of police or maybe even someone in the federal government that could advise a local community of how to deal with a situation like this. I think that's where the biggest failing was, is that failing to prepare, not for just the inevitable but for the evitable? Is that a word.
GUTFELD: Now it is.
PERINO: OK.
GUTFELD: She screwed the police in a big way by leaving them ill-equipped, and she's lying. She did what I call -- she created the substitute teacher syndrome, when authority all of a sudden is under shaky ground, because there's no backup and that encourages anarchy and outburst. Once the malcontents can see that the police have no control, then they can just take over. They treat them like substitute teachers.
But this, to use a liberal phrase, is a teachable moment. Liberals ruin cities. We have two nations, and it's not black or white. It's red and blue. Under Republican leadership, cities tend to do better. Cities are destroyed under Democrats, because they don't know how to deal with the constituency; they're terrified.
BOLLING: I'm going to throw this in there, and I hope this isn't taken the wrong way. Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake is not just mayor of the city of Baltimore. She's also the secretary, third in charge, in the DNC. Now we speculated, more than that, she was told; she got the word down from the White House or higher or...
GUILFOYLE: Someone needs to ask.
BOLLING: ... the DOJ to back up. It may not be that much of a stretch after all.
GUILFOYLE: Ask.
WILLIAMS: This is so...
PERINO: Well, we know that that happened at Hurricane Katrina. I mean, you do know that was...
GUILFOYLE: That was precedent for this. So this isn't, like, crazy talk. Not this time.
GUTFELD: Not this time.
GUILFOYLE: We get our crazy talk.
BOLLING: This actually happens. CNN anchor blamed the military and veterans for the Baltimore riots. Now she's walking all that back. We'll see that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUILFOYLE: Grocery giant Whole Foods was kind enough to provide free sandwiches this week to members of the National Guard restoring calm in Baltimore. But it was shamed into taking down this photo, posted on Instagram and Facebook by some online trolls, who weren't happy about the troops being fed. There were tweets like this one: "As Baltimore poorest kids are left hungry due to school closure" -- no school lunch -- "Whole Foods feeds the oppressor."
Surprisingly, Whole Foods caved to the critics and removed the post. A spokesperson said it didn't accurately reflect what local stores are doing to feed people across the city, especially kids -- Juanito.
WILLIAMS: Yes, this is just outrageous. Of course, Whole Foods should be helping out, protect not only its store but its community. If they care, and if they're invested in the community, they had every right to be supportive of those officers.
GUILFOYLE: Greg.
GUTFELD: These losers are from their company perch on Twitter, are saying, "Don't help the situation," that they themselves are not helping. I guess it would feel better if Whole Foods had supplied the rioters with gluten- free rocks to throw.
GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh. Kale.
GUTFELD: Oblivion chain.
GUILFOYLE: Oh, my goodness.
We've got some other bad behavior in the press. Let's take a listen to CNN anchor Brooke Baldwin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: I love our nation's veterans, but some of them are coming back from war. They don't know the communities, and they're ready to do battle.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: All right. Bolling.
BOLLING: So live TV say dumb things once in a while.
GUILFOYLE: Really? Not on this show, ever.
BOLLING: I said live. I said live.
But it's never OK. It's -- she -- there's no reason to ever make that mistake. I know she tried to walk it back, saying, "I made a mistake. I shouldn't have said that."
But you cannot say that about the military that are keeping you safe so that you are OK to say dumb, live things on television. I just think that there's something deep-seated if you are able to make that mistake. You know what I'm saying?
GUILFOYLE: Something seriously wrong. Not quite right, in fact.
BOLLING: A misjudgment. Very, very deep-seated.
PERINO: She was perpetuating a vicious slur against the military. And this -- I'm sure CNN has done lots of stories about how hard it is for veterans to find jobs. Well, this is one of the reasons, because of this type of rumor mongering. It is a stereotype against the veterans that is unproven.
And there are exceptions -- there's some violence. We know that PTSD is a problem for our veterans, for some of them, but most of them serve honorably. They come back, and they are -- they make excellent citizens and excellent employees. And CNN should be ashamed of themselves.
GUILFOYLE: They sure do. She should apologize, like, 150 million times.
GUTFELD: She should also probably hope that the next time she gets a police officer to her house, maybe he or see will be a gender studies major. But don't count on it, because they don't have jobs for them.
GUILFOYLE: And that's a wrap.
Baltimore's mayor and even the president refers to the rioters as thugs. A city councilman thinks that's equivalent to calling them the "N" word, which he dropped freely twice on live TV. Next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WILLIAMS: One of Baltimore's biggest sports icons just issued an important message to the city's rioters. Here's former Ravens linebacker Ray Lewis.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAY LEWIS, FORMER BALTIMORE RAVENS LINEBACKER: Please, go home, stay home! You don't have -- you don't have no right to do what you're doing. Too many hardworking people built this city. We put this city together. We put this city on our backs.
We know there was wrong done. We know we're not getting the right justice. We know all of these answers. But rioting in our streets is wrong. It's dead wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: That's not the kind of responsible language we're hearing from one of Baltimore's elected officials. City Councilman Carl Stokes dropped the "N" word while contesting the use of the word "thug."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARL STOKES, BALTIMORE CITY COUNCILMAN: ... not the right word to call our children thugs. These are children who have been set aside, marginalized, so calling them thugs, just call them (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Just call them (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: So we beeped that out but, Gregory, the man was using the "N" word on live TV.
GUTFELD: Nice?
BOLLING: No, a different one.
WILLIAMS: OK. You know it's bad when Ray Rice [SIC] is your voice of nonviolent reason.
The councilman is not a leader. He's a meek, cowering mouse who's crumbling under the weight of political correctness. They've abdicated their authority to the rabble to preserve their own power. They don't have the guts.
WILLIAMS: Eric.
BOLLING: So the councilman should not worry about whether the president uses the word "thug" or we use the word "thug." It really doesn't matter. The "N" word doesn't matter. What matters is 67 percent of African- American kids are growing up in a single-parent household.
WILLIAMS: Yes, we talked about that.
BOLLING: We did talk about it. But that's what he should be addressing, rather than what words we're using to describe what the riots were and...
WILLIAMS: Let me go to word maven Dana Perino.
PERINO: Well, I was just going to say, I don't know how you knew that that was going through my mind, is that they have this -- so if I was press secretary, you think, well, if they cross the line from protester into what? What is allowed? What can you say? And maybe we need a new word, if you could come up with one or something.
WILLIAMS: Kimberly.
GUILFOYLE: Yes. I really liked -- I haven't been in love with Ray Lewis in the past, but I was feeling what he had to say. I think it's important. He took a stance. He went out there. He tried to reach young people to say don't do this. They're only hurting themselves. And you can see the frustration and emotion and passion in his voice.
Because what have they done now? All they've done is cut more funding to schools, to other things, because somebody has to pay to clean all this up. So now you've just, like, screwed yourself. Because now we're -- oh, sorry, we're going to have to cut back on school lunches. Oh, sorry, we're going to have to cut back on these after-school activities or raises for good teachers or encourage good teachers to come into schools and districts like that.
PERINO: No, what they will do, Kimberly, the other answer, the liberal answer is raise taxes...
GUILFOYLE: No.
PERINO: ... on the few there that are willing to pay taxes. Raise taxes on the business owners.
GUILFOYLE: People that are struggling.
PERINO: Give more money to failing programs.
WILLIAMS: So let me just say, I just think that the councilman is so off- target. President Obama used the word "thug." So did Mayor Rawlings. And I've got to tell you why it's so crazy. He's basically worried about white people thinking that they're using the "N" word and can substitute "thug." He should be worried about the fact that there is actual thuggish behavior taking place.
GUILFOYLE: "Thug," the word "thug" is color-blind.
WILLIAMS: "One More Thing" coming up next.
GUILFOYLE: That's the thing.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PERINO: OK. It's time now for "One More Thing." I've been away on my book tour. And I have a picture. I was with President Bush last night at the Bush Center. Well, that's not President Bush. That's Phil McKenzie. He's my tour director.
But that was President Bush. I got to have some time with him. And the book is part memoir, part advice; and a lot of it has to do with my time in the White House. And this just in; I get to read this. "The New York Times" best-seller list came out. No. 1, the combined hard cover and e- book nonfiction list.
WILLIAMS: Congratulations.
GUILFOYLE: Yes.
PERINO: As well as the non-fiction e-book list alone -- or alone list -- for a week from Sunday. That's May 10. This is Mother's Day, so happy Mother's Day, Mom. I know you're happy.
GUTFELD: I hate you.
PERINO: I knew you were not going to be happy.
GUTFELD: Hate you.
PERINO: I never expected to be No. 1, but I'm very happy. OK. You should be happy for me.
GUTFELD: I will crush you.
GUILFOYLE: We're very happy for you.
PERINO: You get to be No. 2.
GUTFELD: All right. It's time for...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: Greg's FOX News.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: We've got some breaking fox news here. Let's roll the tape. In the Ukraine, we have a fox who's finally evolved to the point that it can make an actual ham and French bread sandwich using its mouth. This is an incredible feat. We've been monitoring this around the clock. This is kind of fox news you don't get anywhere else.
Fair and balanced with the meat and the bread. You get 50 percent meat, 50 percent bread. That's 100 percent fair and balanced -- diet. Good news is, he's now going to be opening a Subway in the Ukraine woods. He goes off. Very happy for Mr. Fox.
GUILFOYLE: That looks delicious, actually.
PERINO: Very talented.
GUILFOYLE: Yes.
PERINO: Kimberly, you're next.
GUILFOYLE: Yum, yum.
OK, it's a very heartwarming story. I don't know if I can match that one, but it's been 70 years since World War II veteran Brian Ferry (ph) played football on the college campus. And he's 89 years old. He made the most of his opportunity during this weekend's alumni scrimmage at the University of Kansas. That's him. That's the big guy going in for the touchdown, baby. You love it? Look at him.
BOLLING: They might use him, though.
PERINO: Eric, you're next.
GUILFOYLE: He does it with a smile.
BOLLING: Juan's is so good I'm going to forego my time for Juan.
PERINO: You're yielding your time to Juan? OK, Juan.
BOLLING: Very good.
WILLIAMS: Look at this picture, everybody. Look at this picture. This picture has gone viral. It's a young man in Baltimore offering a bottle of water to one of the police officers.
GUILFOYLE: Aww.
WILLIAMS: So hey, what? He must be from Whole Foods. No. He's from the community. He's one of us. He's saying thank you to police officers who are keeping his community safe.
We saw that lady crying earlier in this show. Here's a young man who's really stepping up and saying there's a different view, a different vision, not only for the rest of the world to look at in in Baltimore but for his peers, for other young people in the city. So thank you, young man. Thank you, Bishop Comardie (ph), who put that picture out there.
PERINO: And we'll give you extra time tomorrow, Eric, for your "One More Thing."
All right. Set your DVRs so you never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us. "Special Report" is next.
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