This is a rush transcript from "Tucker Carlson Tonight," August 11, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
TUCKER CARLSON, HOST: Good evening and welcome to "Tucker Carlson Tonight."
Big news in the political world, just hours ago, Joe Biden's handlers announced they have selected Senator Kamala Harris of California to run as Biden's Vice President.
We will admit, we did not see this coming. In fact, just last night on the show, we told you that Susan Rice was likely to get that job. Rice is a hardened partisan, but she is not stupid, and more to the point, Rice has sincere beliefs whether you like them or not, and we don't.
But Kamala Harris is the opposite of that. Harris may be the single most transactional human being in America. There are time-share salesmen you would trust more than Kamala Harris. You could find payday lenders who are more sincere.
So it seemed inconceivable that given his current state, Joe Biden would choose someone so transparently one-dimensional as Kamala Harris. Someone as empty as he is. It would be the first entirely hollow presidential ticket in American history and we thought it would never happen. But it is, they are doing it anyway.
Biden-Harris, that's what they are going with, and the choice tells you a lot about the current state of the Democratic Party.
America is still technically a democracy, yet neither Biden nor Harris has ever been popular with actual voters. This is Joe Biden's third run for President. The first two attempts ended in embarrassing disasters.
The third was headed at high speed in that direction, and then a series of unforeseen flukes and a highly crowded primary field left Biden the last man in the race. He was clearly shocked by his own victory.
On election night, the night he clinched the nomination in March, Biden was so rattled he mistook his sister for his wife during the acceptance speech.
At the time, Joe Biden's relative unpopularity seemed like a major problem for Democrats. This is politics, after all. The people who tend to have the most support tend to win.
So if you're choosing a presidential nominee, you think you'd want someone with a built-in constituency, a base of passionate voters you can count on Election Day, but as it turns out, that is the last thing the leaders of the modern Democratic Party wanted. They already had a candidate like that, in fact, his name was Bernie Sanders and they did everything they could to stop him.
No. What they wanted instead with someone they could control and Joe Biden fit that description perfectly. Biden was eager, malleable, and totally blank. He was willing to be whatever his handlers wanted him to be.
Kamala Harris will be every bit as eager and that's the point.
If Biden-Harris to doesn't make sense to you as a ticket, it's only because you are not cynical enough. Harris clearly wasn't picked for her personal charm.
More than 30 years ago, she dated a man called Willie Brown who was later the mayor of San Francisco. She was 29 years old at the time, Brown was 60 and still married. Brown launched Harris's political career. He knows her very well.
Last week Brown publicly urged Joe Biden not to pick Kamala Harris as his running mate. But it turns out, Willie Brown's opinion no longer matters in the Democratic Party, Jeff Bezos' opinion matters, so do the opinions of his fellow Bay Area tech titans and the finance moguls in New York.
These are the people who bankroll the Democratic Party. They are the economic engine of the left, and they love Kamala Harris, not personally. It's business.
Their main interest is in keeping the government carve outs that have made them rich. They know the last thing Kamala Harris will do is threaten any of those, never, under any circumstances.
One thing you can be certain of, in a Biden-Harris administration, private equity barons will still pay half the tax rate you pay, and that's the real point.
Voters may not like Kamala Harris, but Wall Street does -- just in case you're wondering who is actually in charge.
And yet still, even politicians have souls -- technically anyway. So how could Joe Biden pick a running mate who once publicly denounced him as racist? You remember the moment. It was in the debate last summer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA): I am going to be now direct this to Vice President Biden. I do not believe you are a racist. But you also worked with them to oppose busing.
And you know, there was a little girl in California who was part of the second class to integrate her public schools, and she was bused to school every day. And that little girl was me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: I do not believe you are a racist. I do not believe you beat your wife. Right. Kamala Harris, Civil Rights icon.
Actually, Harris group mostly in Canada. And in any case, forced busing was a disaster from the beginning to the end. Nobody liked it, including black families.
Joe Biden may be a bigot but it's not because he opposed forced busing. But, apparently he has forgiven Harris for that slur. Maybe he doesn't member it.
Even a dimming 77-year-old must have some memory of what Harris once said about his purported sex crimes.
Just last year, several women came forward to say Joe Biden had touched them in sexually aggressive ways, both on and off camera. Kamala Harris wholeheartedly endorsed their claims, quote, "I believe them and I respect them being able to tell their story and having the courage to do it."
Wait, what? You believe that Joe Biden sexually assaulted a number of women, sexually assaulted them, but you're joining his presidential ticket anyway? How does that work exactly? How can you do that?
Well, as it turns out, she can do it happily, shamelessly without even taking a breath. Just tell Kamala Harris what to say and she will say it. That is the whole point of Kamala Harris. It's why she is so useful.
And for the next several months, Harris is going to say that Donald Trump is a racist. She will say that every day until November. That's her job now. You watch.
But keep in mind, as you watch that there's no fighting back. It's not allowed. Kamala Harris is a quote, "historic" candidate and that means you have no right to criticize her regardless of what she says. They are already telling you that. They are making it very clear.
Just last week, a group of abortion lobbyists, officials from Planned Parenthood, NARAL, EMILY's List and others sent a letter to media organizations around the country about Biden's upcoming VP pick.
It was addressed to editors, news directors, reporters. The choice of the vice presidential candidate was most certain to be a black woman, they said, they were right, and they wanted to warn reporters that in the wake of George Floyd's death, any critical coverage of Joe Biden's VP pick what amount to quote, "systemic racism."
That wasn't guidance. It was an unveiled threat. They made it because they knew it would work and in fact, it's already working. Immediately after Harris was chosen today, "The New York Times" sent out a bulletin describing her as quote, "a pragmatic moderate." Got that? A pragmatic moderate, not some kind of cookie ideologue, not some flaky lifestyle liberal from San Francisco. Not at all, no.
Instead, someone who wants to solve America's toughest problems, and solve them without regard to orthodoxy or partisanship. A sober, steady leader in troubled times. Actually, it might be nice to have someone like that.
But that is not Kamala Harris, not even close. Harris has endorsed forcing schools to let biological males play in girls' athletic teams. It's not a majority position. It is nuts, but it's not as crazy as federally subsidized abortions for biological men. Harris is for that, too. She has announced it. Think that through for a minute.
Men can't get pregnant, so how do we pay for their abortions? Harris has never explained that of course, at this point, it would be systemically racist to ask her, so no one ever will ask her.
Shut up. No questions allowed.
Meanwhile there is not a fashionable rich lady position that Kamala Harris doesn't have. Plastic straws are bad. Red meat is worse. If there was a bill to make soul cycle mandatory, Kamala Harris would get behind it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: Do you ban plastic straws?
HARRIS: I think we should, yes.
QUESTION: But would you support changing the dietary guidelines?
QUESTION: You know, the food pyramid?
HARRIS: Yes, yes.
QUESTION: To reduce red meat specifically.
HARRIS: Yes, I would.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: So now you know Kamala Harris' position on the all-important F.D.A. food pyramid, but she has non-frivolous positions on important topics, too.
On healthcare, Harris believes that illegal immigrants have every bit the right to taxpayer-funded medical treatment that you do as a citizen. This is yet another position, whatever you think of it, that the majority of Americans do not support. But as we have noted, Harris doesn't care what most people want. They are not her audience.
She is told to support free healthcare for foreign nationals who break our laws, and so she does support it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Do you support giving universal healthcare and Medicare-for-All to people who are in this country illegally?
HARRIS: Let me just be very clear about this. I am opposed to any policy that would deny in our country any human being from access to public safety, public education or public health. Period.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: So, Kamala Harris isn't an idiot and she knows what she just suggested is actually impossible. You can have a welfare state, lots of countries do. You can have open borders. But you can't have both.
No country can survive with a welfare state and open borders. That's obvious. No one disputes it.
But Kamala Harris doesn't care either way. The survival she cares about his or her own survival.
By the way, if you think you can keep your family safe as a country collapses around her ambitions, you are wrong because she plans to disarm you first.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: Do you believe in the mandatory buyback of quote-unquote "assault weapons"?
HARRIS: I do believe that we need to do buybacks, and I'll tell you why. They are weapons of war with no place on the streets of a civil society.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: We could go on and on. Oh, the ironies. A party that is angry about police brutality has just hired the former chief law enforcement officer of California. Again, there's a lot to say and in coming weeks, we'll say it. There is a lot of available tape and of course, Harris will soon provide more.
But we are going to sum up Kamala Harris this way.
Last year when actor, Jussie Smollett staged his fake hate crime, Harris was one of the first national leaders to jump in with an expression of support.
Smollett was quote, "The kindest, most gentle human being" Harris had ever met, she wrote. The attack on him was quote, "an attempted modern-day lynching." Okay, so, she fell for it. Lots of credulous rich people did.
But what makes Kamala Harris a remarkable figure is that in the face of changing evidence, she never recanted her support. That tweet is still up. She did not delete it. You can still read it on her Twitter feed tonight.
Smollett's story was entirely concocted. Harris knows that. We all know it, but she doesn't care. In fact, Harris understands perfectly well why Smollett lied.
By smearing Trump supporters as bigots, he hoped to advance his career, and Kamala Harris, of all people, can respect it.
Richard Goodstein served as adviser to the Clintons. He is watching all of this very carefully. He joins us tonight.
Richard, I always preface my questions to you by saying, I don't want to be mean, but how can someone who said she believed that Joe Biden committed sexual assault against various women serve as his running mate? Sincere question.
RICHARD GOODSTEIN, FORMER ADVISER TO BILL AND HILLARY CLINTON: Tucker, can I just say one quick thing because this is something that will serve you and your fellow hosts on Fox.
Her name is pronounced comma, like the punctuation mark -- Kamala.
GOODSTEIN: Seriously, I've heard every sort of --
CARLSON: Okay, so what?
GOODSTEIN: That's how it is. Kamala. Well, I think it's out of a respect for somebody who is going to be on the national ticket, pronouncing her name right is actually -- is kind of a bare minimum, that's all.
CARLSON: Okay, so I'm disrespecting her by mispronouncing her name unintentionally. So it begins, you're not allowed to criticize Kamala Harris or Kamala Harris or whatever.
GOODSTEIN: Kamala, no, no, no.
CARLSON: Because -- Kamala Harris --
GOODSTEIN: It's not whatever.
CARLSON: Okay, look, I unintentionally mispronounced her name.
GOODSTEIN: Let me ask you a question.
CARLSON: But I love the idea that she is immune from criticism, so let me restate my question.
GOODSTEIN: Let me answer -- no, no.
CARLSON: Because on this show, nobody in power is immune from criticism. Our political leaders must be held to account. That's our job. And so my question to you remains the same.
How can a person who said she believed Joe Biden committed sexual assault serve as his running mate? Simple, regardless of how her name is pronounced.
GOODSTEIN: Right. And I will believe that you or others who are interested in politicians committing sexual assault are serious about it when they put a smidgen of the attention into Donald Trump grabbing people by the genitals, then he brags about --
CARLSON: You're missing it. You're totally missing it. On this show -- hold on. I defended Joe Biden. I don't think the accusations are real against him.
I'm like the only conservative on TV who said that.
CARLSON: So I am not attacking Joe Biden on the basis of that. I'm attacking him for his ideas, which are wrong. Joe Biden was attacked by Kamala Harris and if she sincerely believed that, how can she serve as his running mate? It is really simple. It has got nothing to do with Trump.
GOODSTEIN: Yes. Kamala Harris said about Bret Kavanaugh and everybody else what matters are the facts, and the facts in this case are that the one witness who accused Joe Biden of sexual assault has been radically discredited and that's basically her position and that's where the public has come down on this.
That's why for months, you haven't heard a word about this and in part because you've got 20 women waiting to get their position in court taking their case against Donald Trump, and I guess, maybe in fair and balance- hood, you know, maybe you don't really want to go down that road. That's all.
CARLSON: No, no. It's a very simple road. I don't work for any politician. If somebody accuses you of a crime and then never says she recants and doesn't believe you're guilty, then maybe she shouldn't serve as your vice presidential nominee. That's all I'm saying.
It's not about Trump.
GOODSTEIN: It's the facts. The facts matter.
CARLSON: This is the one thing that's not about -- okay, okay. Let me ask you this.
CARLSON: Name three things that Kamala Harris sincerely believes. Issues on which she will not change her view, policy issues, if you would. Just as a baseline.
GOODSTEIN: A fundamental thing, so Joe Biden is running for President. It's his positions, just like Mike Pence took the position with Donald Trump, not believing that grabbing women was a good thing, but he otherwise thought that Donald Trump was onto something.
And Joe Biden is on to making sure that things are done more fairly in the country and not tilted towards the rich and powerful. Kamala Harris believes that. She did that as Attorney General.
CARLSON: Oh really.
GOODSTEIN: She did as a DA in San Francisco, yes, indeed.
CARLSON: Okay, so I'm wondering, will they get rid of the carried interest loophole that allows private equity moguls to pay half the tax rate that the rest of us wage earners pay?
I don't see them eager to do that. If you wanted to make the country fair, you would change the Tax Code, but they are servants of Wall Street, so they won't. So the lecture on fairness is a tiny bit nauseating, no?
GOODSTEIN: Actually, I think they are talking about changing the Tax Code to tilt it toward the middle class and away from bias again towards the rich. And if carried interest is part of that, I think that we all get swept up in it.
CARLSON: What do you mean, if it's part of that?
GOODSTEIN: Yes, I wouldn't be surprised.
CARLSON: It's a scam and everyone knows it's a scam, but of course, they never will because their donors are -- how can a ticket supported primarily by the tech moguls and Wall Street fight for economic fairness? Sincere question.
GOODSTEIN: Tucker, Donald Trump had the House, the Senate, and the White House for two years and did nothing against carried interest, and you're complaining about Joe Biden's position on it? Please.
CARLSON: He should have. No, no, hold on. I know you want to make everything about Trump. We spend a lot of time talking about Trump in the American media.
Today, Joe Biden chose Senator Harris of California as his running mate. You said her main commitment was to fairness. It's clear that the Tax Code is not fair.
CARLSON: So in what way specifically where they change -- I mean, I don't mean yelping about BLM, getting off cheap and easy. I mean, the real change.
GOODSTEIN: It's not yelping.
CARLSON: What are they for?
GOODSTEIN: So, it's not yelping to be for tax fairness, to be for racial justice. Most people in the country don't think our President supports racial justice. The people -- the reason why black voters --
CARLSON: It costs Kamala Harris' donors nothing to talk about racial justice. He would cost them something if they stopped getting special carve outs from the Congress. Will they work to change those?
GOODSTEIN: Again, Joe Biden is the nominee. There's a reason that black voters overwhelmingly voted for him in the primaries and support him in the polls, because he is clearly for racial justice and so is she.
That's not even questionable. I'm surprised that you -- that's a kind of an argument you want to pick. Seriously.
CARLSON: No. What I am talking about is a thing that nobody ever talks about which is economic justice. All of this is a cover designed to keep us from talking about it. But I'm going to talk about it because I think it matters and these are the candidates of business. Period. Unfortunately.
Richard, great to see you.
GOODSTEIN: Well, I don't think that's a product you're going to see, but we will see as the months unfold.
CARLSON: You may be right. They may not see it, but it doesn't make it less true.
CARLSON: Thanks. Dana Perino is a host of "The Daily Briefing." It airs weekdays at 2:00 p.m. Eastern. She joins us now.
I'm not going to attempt to pronounce Senator Harris' name ever again because I don't want to be accused of showing disrespect, which I'm not.
DANA PERINO, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST: Okay.
CARLSON: But, I wonder if you think this is a wise choice as an electoral matter.
PERINO: I feel like it is a -- believe it or not, I do think that out of all the choices, when I read through all of the bios this weekend, I came to the conclusion that she probably made the most logical sense for him.
If you look at some of the other candidates, for example you mentioned Susan Rice at the top of the show that you thought maybe she would be getting it.
CARLSON: Yes, I did.
PERINO: I looked at that and I thought there's several reasons I thought she would be not a good choice for the vice presidential nod.
I think if Biden trusts her and appreciates her approach to things, she might make a good Chief of Staff for him if he were to become the President. But she would make a very bad candidate.
The thing about Kamala Harris is all of these policy positions, like for example, you didn't have a chance to mention with Richard, she said that she was against -- that she has for banning all fracking. That is not Biden's position. So, she will have to figure out a way to support Joe Biden on that thing.
But there's a lot of questions she is going to be asked. If you remember, when she said she was for Medicare-for-All and she also went a step further and said she was for getting rid of private health insurance. That really was the beginning of the end of her campaign. She never really recovered from that stumble.
CARLSON: Right, I remember.
PERINO: In addition, she had a hard time connecting with voters.
Now, I do think that she is going to get a fresh look especially the media. Right? The media will help a little bit and Democratic voters will have to decide, do they like Kamala Harris enough? Did she inspire them enough for them to continue to want to support Joe Biden as much as they want to vote Donald Trump out?
I don't know how many people are going to say, I am definitely going to vote for Biden now just because he chose Kamala Harris. But a safe choice for him at this point, I think.
CARLSON: Very quick. Countries obviously completely out of money, people want more federally subsidized healthcare. Will the Biden campaign stick with their position that we need to extend federally subsidized healthcare to people who are here illegally?
PERINO: Well, they have said that they would. If they backtrack on that, I think that that would be, yet again another thing for the progressives of the party, right, that were really driving a lot of that primary charge where you saw all of these candidates move to the left.
And Biden really hasn't tacked more to the center since he wrapped up the primary and the nomination. He has really kind of continued to try to win over that progressive left.
Kamala Harris, I think, one of the things that I heard in the focus groups, one of the words used to describe her often was "inauthentic." So can she reintroduce herself to America and especially Democratic voters, and be more authentic and still hold on to some of those positions or flip flop on them? I think that remains to be seen.
But I do think after like three or four days, everyone is going to focus on the fact that Joe Biden and Donald Trump are the two candidates. Pence and Kamala Harris, important, but footnotes in the story.
CARLSON: Probably true. Dana Perino, thanks so much for that.
PERINO: Okay. Bye-bye.
CARLSON: Nothing makes politicians madder than when you don't obey them.
In one state, not wearing a face mask could put you on the hook for attempted murder. That's next.
CARLSON: Our elected leaders have changed their views on whether you need a mask so often that it's hard to keep track. Most people have decided just to ignore the yelping, and that makes politicians very angry.
You can disagree, but you can't ignore them. That may be why the Director of Wisconsin's Department of Natural Resources is now commanding that government workers wear masks even when they are alone at home on a teleconference.
The Director is a man called Preston Cole and that he says that wearing a mask alone at home sets an example that shows you quote, "care about the safety and health of others." Even if there are no others and you're by yourself. Wearing a mask will keep you from infecting yourself with the coronavirus.
Meanwhile in the State of Tennessee, a Councilwoman called Sharon Hurt from Nashville believes you should face attempted murder charges if you don't wear a mask.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHARON HURT, COUNCILWOMAN, NASHVILLE, TENNESSEE: You know, I work for an organization that if they pass a virus, then they are tried for murder or attempted murder if they are not told.
Maybe there needs to be stronger legislation to say that if you do not wear a mask and you subject exposure of this virus to someone else, then there will be some stronger penalty as it is in other viruses that are exposed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: Some stronger penalties. Also, we should simply execute people who don't wear masks for the sake of public health. That may be up for discussion soon.
Meanwhile, at the University of Georgia, the university has posted so- called medical advice that students should wear a mask, a medical facemask while having sex. They cited the Mayo Clinic for that. The school later removed the post after a much-deserved mockery online.
So, should we be wearing masks home alone or while having sex?
Dr. Scott Atlas has thought about this. He is a member of the White House Coronavirus Taskforce. He joins us tonight. Dr. Atlas, thanks so much for coming on.
DR. SCOTT ATLAS, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS TASKFORCE MEMBER: Hi, Tucker. Sure. Thanks for having me, Tucker.
CARLSON: So, as a man of science, if you could just explain the public health utility of wearing a mask home alone on a Zoom call. Is the virus transmissible through Zoom?
ATLAS: No. And by the way, I want to correct you. I've not thought a lot about wearing a mask while having sex. I want to correct that.
CARLSON: I was trying to do it with a straight face and I couldn't.
ATLAS: Well, you know, the reality is that there is certain date that is very controversial about masks and I think the President said it correctly honestly when he said that in certain settings, it's reasonable to wear a mask when you cannot social distance and particularly if you're trying to protect -- in proximity to high-risk individual or you are a high-risk individual, and I think that's a rational policy.
I don't want to make fun of people who say these other things, though, and the reality is it is stemming from a massive amount of fear bordering on hysteria now, and this is a real problem because public policy is supposed to be taken into consideration, not just stopping COVID-19 at all cost, but understanding the impact of people on what you do and what you say.
I think that's been a failure in some of the people who have been speaking out on this.
CARLSON: Well, fear has its political uses. That may explain it in part, but fear also has medical consequences, does it not? It's not good for people to be terrified, filled with anxiety, is it?
ATLAS: Well, that's absolutely true and it also, again, you know, we need to live in a rational world. We need to show our children to use critical thinking. There's been a lot of sloppy thinking as I've said many times about people with very fancy CVs on this stuff.
But reality is, you know, there are reasons to wear a mask. But generally speaking, you know, driving around in your car alone and some of the other scenarios you outlined is not really rational to wear a mask.
CARLSON: You see people running outside with no one around them or riding their bikes outside and wearing masks, and you kind of appreciate the effort they're putting in and the suffering they're going through while doing it.
But is there science behind that decision? Is there a good reason to do that?
ATLAS: You know, there's no real good science on general population, widespread in all circumstances wearing masks, and that really has been sort of a failure of communication by people who are supposed to know better.
When you look at an article that's published, you're not supposed to take the bottom line. You're actually supposed to look at it critically as a medical scientist and try to understand if you can actually draw the legitimate conclusion that the authors themselves are drawing.
And much of the stuff on masks really is not very good science at all and in fact, the W.H.O. itself says there is no sound science for general populations wearing masks.
However, in certain settings, I think we can say it's reasonable to wear a mask, and the whole public policy honestly is twofold here.
The public policy is directly for stopping the deaths by protecting the high-risk people and preventing hospital overcrowding while you safely reopen society.
The public policy is absolutely not just stop COVID-19 cases at all cost no matter what. That is not appropriate policy.
CARLSON: And finally, you have seen a couple of high-profile people pass away from the coronavirus, from COVID-19, and you have seen media stories gleefully mocking their deaths.
This is true for Herman Cain, a very nice man by the way. He died because he had doubted the mask policy, therefore the media concluded he deserved to die. Is this a standard that you accept, that we mock people after they die? And should we apply it to other communicable diseases? That people somehow deserve to die if they don't follow the rules?
ATLAS: Yes, I mean, obviously, that's totally inappropriate. It's sort of a symptom of both fear and honestly your profession, not you, but your profession ...
CARLSON: Yes, I know.
ATLAS: ... that has really highlighted and sensationalized things way out of proportion, and I'm not sure if it's just a sign of the times or we are living in this hyperbole of social media or if there are other motivations.
But really, it's up to people who are legitimate credible medical scientists to step up and articulate the logic and commonsense policy because you can't just say it's all about the science and then say things that are contrary to the science.
CARLSON: I think that's a very smart point, because no one believes you and you devalue your own credibility. I think that's really wise. Dr. Atlas, thank you.
ATLAS: Okay, thanks for having me.
CARLSON: Reporters from "The Washington Post" and "The New York Times" totally destroyed the life of an administration staffer. They did it deliberately.
She survived and she is here to explain what happened and why. She's got a new book. That's next.
CARLSON: Just a year ago, Madeleine Westerhout was serving as Director of Oval Office Operations for the President, seated right outside his office. Then she went on a trip, a state trip and her life was ruined by reporters who published her off the record comments after a few drinks about the President's daughters.
So she has left the White House, and now she has written a book. It's called "Off the Record: My Dream Job at the White House, How I Lost it and What I Learned." Madeleine Westerhout joins us tonight.
Madeleine, thanks so much for coming on. Congrats on the book. This was one of those stories that --
MADELEINE WESTERHOUT, FORMER DIRECTOR OF OVAL OFFICE OPERATIONS FOR THE PRESIDENT: Hi, Tucker.
CARLSON: Well, I had run into you in Washington and I thought you seemed unlike a lot of people in the political world, like a genuinely nice person, so I watched this and it made me sad to see it.
WESTERHOUT: Thank you.
CARLSON: But summarize the book. Why did you get destroyed? What did you learn?
WESTERHOUT: Yes, so you know I had a bad night. I made a mistake that cost me my job. I said some things I shouldn't have said after too many drinks. But how what I said got back to the -- what I said off the record dinner got back to the President and ultimately made headlines is beyond me.
I don't know who gained anything from the story. I certainly didn't. I don't think the President did. I don't think his family did and I am pretty sure the American people didn't.
CARLSON: So, I mean, people who cover politics know that at the end of most of days on the road, there's an off the record dinner between political people and reporters and nothing that's said gets leaked.
The rules have changed. A guy called Phil Rucker from "The Washington Post" apparently is one of the people who broke the rules in order to hurt you. Why do you think they did this?
WESTERHOUT: You know what? I think they did this to hurt the President. I don't think they cared about me at all, but they did care the President.
They cared about hurting him and that's exactly what they did by sharing the information and I have decided over the last year that it is honestly no longer worth my time to question how these comments got shared. But I will ask a broader question which is, what does off the record even mean anymore?
CARLSON: Right. Do you wish you hadn't trusted members of the National Press Corps? Rhetorical question.
WESTERHOUT: Of course, yes, absolutely.
CARLSON: I mean, I guess just to put a finer point on it, the irony of your story is this is a White House, if we are being honest that has a number of people in high positions who are leaking against the guy they work for. Who aren't actually on board with his program?
You were one of the people who actually liked him and agreed with him.
WESTERHOUT: I did.
CARLSON: So, it's a little weird that you got destroyed.
WESTERHOUT: Yes, and like I said and I talk about it in my book, I made a mistake and I think that's really relatable. I think a lot of Americans, and a lot of people, we all make mistakes. Mine just happened to play out on the world's largest stage. So, it's been an interesting year for sure.
CARLSON: Did any of the reporters who betrayed your trust and broke the age-old law of off-the-record rule ever call you to apologize?
WESTERHOUT: I spoke to a couple of the reporters that were at that dinner and they expressed their empathy for how things kind of unfolded.
But no, I did not hear directly from any of the reporters that I think you're referring to.
CARLSON: Did it occur to you since at these dinners, you know, most people are drinking and people's tongues are loosened to call their bosses and tell them off the record things that they had said, see if you could get them fired from their jobs. Did you consider doing that?
WESTERHOUT: I didn't. I wish I had.
CARLSON: Oh, you're not a bad person. Right, okay.
WESTERHOUT: Well, and you know what, I'm not going to go up against the Amazon "Washington Post."
CARLSON: Yes, no it's a really good point. Jeff Bezos' newspaper. I hope, he is proud. Madeleine Westerhout, congratulations on the book. It is great to see you tonight. Glad you're back.
WESTERHOUT: Thanks, Tucker, for having me. Thanks.
CARLSON: Thanks a million.
Joe Biden isn't as good a panderer as he was. Kamala Harris is on the scene, though, and we have amazing video and we will show you just how good she is at it. That's next.
CARLSON: Joe Biden may not always recognize his own wife, but he has not forgotten how to pander to voters. That's an ingrained skill gained over 50 years. Here he is on a videoconference with Muslim activists.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESUMPTIVE DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Muslim communities are the first to feel Donald Trump's assault on black and brown communities in this country with his vile Muslim ban.
Under this administration, we have seen unconscionable -- an unconscionable rise in Islamic-phobia. The incidents including kids being bullied in school and hate crimes in our communities.
If I have the honor of being President, I will end the Muslim ban on day one -- day one.
Thank you so, so very much, and may peace be upon you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: I bet you didn't know we had a Muslim ban. Oh, because we don't. But here's something really surprising.
Joe Biden, after a lifetime on the left now supports bringing religion back into schools. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: I wish we taught more in our schools about the Islamic faith.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a former Muslim, author of the book "Heretic: Why Islam Needs A Reformation Now," and one of our all-time favorite guests. We are honored to have her tonight.
Ayaan, thanks so much for coming on.
So how do you assess -- most people have not seen this video. I'm interested in your thoughts as someone who is deeply learned on this subject. What do you take from this?
AYAAN HIRSI ALI, RESEARCH FELLOW, HOOVER INSTITUTION: Well, I mean, you go -- by the way, Tucker, hi. Nice to see you again and thank you for having me on.
But when you go to the next sentence, the next thing that he says in the clip which is if you see something wrong and he quotes the Prophet Mohammed, then use your hand and if you can't use your hand, use your tongue and if you can't use your tongue, then use your heart.
What he is basically doing from that point onwards is enforcing Sharia Law and it is vigilantism on steroids. It is like, you know, we have seen if you are a Muslim, you grew up within Islam, you're trying to reform it. You're a just a good American Muslim, you are being confronted with a former Vice President and I would say a candidates for a major political party who is basically saying let's enforce Sharia Law.
I have absolutely nothing against -- and I am with him on let's fight discrimination. We should not be bullying Muslim children. We shouldn't be doing any of that. He is really good on that, but I don't know who puts these words in his mouth, and I'm alarmed.
CARLSON: So, as a garden-variety Protestant, this went right over my head. I didn't catch any of it. I didn't even notice. Would this be obviously to people who grew up reading the Quran?
ALI: Yes. I watched that video, I mean, all of it. Not just where you stopped, but where I think there is this concept called commanding right and forbidding wrong.
And I absolutely cannot believe that in the year 2020, Joe Biden is commanding right and forbidding wrong. Meaning, he is enforcing Sharia Law.
I understand that Joe Biden doesn't know what he is doing, because -- and I think most Americans don't. But he does have a campaign team. He has a team of people who will say this is what you can say, and here is why. This is what I think is.
Your former guest said she is sorry when she made a gaffe. This is something I think because we're in this cancel culture and I am absolutely against cancel culture, but this is -- here is one thing where I would say Joe Biden should come out and apologize and apologize profusely to the American people, and especially to those American Muslims who have adopted and embraced the foundational principles of America.
In this video, what he has done is he has put himself, at least these people who I think of as the Muslim Brotherhood, radical Islamists, they have him endorsing and enforcing Sharia vigilantism.
I mean, think about it. You have people who -- Muslims scholars, when they start talking about enforcing Sharia Law, it is "Should we use" when you talk about the hand, is it the sword? Is it firearms? Is it improvised explosive devices?
Think about the two brothers who went and used their mother's pressure cooker to hurt people during the Boston Marathon bombings in 2013. That's the kind of thing. And if you don't know what you're talking about, then you shouldn't do it.
But if you do, I think it would be a great trait of leadership if then Joe Biden came out and said I'm sorry, I made a mistake. I didn't realize this is what I was doing. If he did that, I'd vote for him.
CARLSON: Do you think there's any chance that he will do that?
ALI: Here we go, because you are trying to -- he is trying to harvest every single kind of vote he can get, but if he is so desperate as to want the vote of the organized Muslim Brotherhood, then I think we are in big trouble and I don't know if he will do it.
CARLSON: Very quickly, how did these words get into his script? Do you have an idea who advised him to say that?
ALI: I don't know who did that. I know this group of people called -- this guy who put the video together and who lured him into saying these things, I know that they are parts of the organized Islamist group. We call them the Muslim Brotherhood, those of us who are following these sorts of things.
But what I do know is that the people who look after him, the campaign team were not on red alert and that they didn't stop him from saying this type of thing.
CARLSON: Yes, clearly.
ALI: And we all live in the age of cancel culture -- they didn't -- we live in the age of cancel culture and I would say to you, it would be a great trait of leadership of Joe Biden's campaign team came out today and said no, we made a big mistake. We obviously don't understand Sharia Law. We don't understand the ins and outs of it, but we -- this is wrong and this is not what we are about.
CARLSON: Ayaan Hirsi Ali, thank you so much for that. Again, I missed it. But I was glad to hear it. Thank you.
ALI: Thank you, Tucker.
CARLSON: Voters in Massachusetts will have to replace the only Kennedy still in Congress. The likely successor has an only in America success story, but with a twist. That's straight ahead.
CARLSON: Since 1947, just after the Second World War, a member of the Kennedy family has represented the State of Massachusetts more or less continuously, but that streak is finally ending.
Congressman Joe Kennedy retires this year and honestly, I don't want to be mean, but his potential replacements do not seem quite worthy of the family name.
None has tried to start another world war. None has left a woman to drown alone in a car -- but they are trying.
One of the candidates this year is a woman called Ihssane Leckey. We will say this for her, she is every bit as shameless as the man she is replacing. Here's her new ad.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
IHSSANE LECKEY, CANDIDATE FOR MASSACHUSETTS' 4TH CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT: My name is Ihssane Leckey. I'm running for Congress in Massachusetts' 4th Congressional District.
I was born in morocco to a public school teacher and a farmer. I came to this country believing in the American dream, of starting from nothing and becoming successful.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: Got that? Born in North Africa to a striving family, came to the United States, became successful. It's a great story. In fact, it's the American dream. So how does Leckey feel about the country that made it possible?
Yesterday she wrote this on Twitter quote, "Now, I'm running for Congress to dismantle every oppressive system that denies us the basic necessities to live." End quote.
In other words, I came to America. My life improved dramatically. I'm not grateful. In fact, I despise your country so much I want to quote, "dismantle your systems." That's her platform.
It is hard to believe there's a market for that -- for that kind of ingratitude, but obviously there is. Ilhan Omar is still in Congress.
The well of progressive self-loathing turns out to be bottomless and unfortunately when you despise yourself, it's pretty easy to despise your country.
That's it for us tonight. We'll be back tomorrow night, 8:00 p.m. The show that's the sworn and totally sincere enemy of lying, pomposity, smugness and groupthink.
And if you think that's great, wait until you see what happens now at 9:00 p.m. from New York, Sean Hannity.
Content and Programming Copyright 2020 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of Fox News Network, LLC. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.