Anything More Than Sex, Lies and Audiotape?

This is a partial transcript from "On the Record," August 23, 2004, that has been edited for clarity.

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GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST: Let's bring in our panel. From Redwood City, KFI radio's Laura Ingle and former San Francisco assistant DA Jim hammer. In Detroit, defense attorney Geoff Fieger, and here in Washington, defense attorneys Bernie Grimm and Ted Williams. Ted, of course, is a former D.C. homicide detective.

Laura, describe [Amber Frey’s] demeanor on the witness stand and compare and contrast it to when the prosecutor asked questions.

LAURA INGLE, KFI RADIO REPORTER: I thought she held up very well today. She was solid. She looked Mark Geragos right in the eye as he was asking her questions. I thought her eyes were open real big, and she had her eyebrows up a lot, and she spoke in a very soft voice. And she answered very yes, very no, very direct and to the point. The jury paying very close attention to her facial expressions as they looked over at the defense table.

I'm not sure when it happened, but somebody at the defense table moved a big computer almost in the line of sight of where Scott Peterson could look at Amber Frey. I thought that was one interesting detail that happened because it looked like he would have had to look around the computer to actually see her on the witness stand. But by and large, she did a very good job and was very direct with Mark Geragos and standing up to him and answering his questions directly.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right, Jim, one of the oldest tricks in the book is for the defense attorney not to go to the lectern, but to stand near the defendant, so that she'd have to look at the defendant. Did Mark stand at the lectern or did he stand next to his client, forcing her to look him in the eye?

JIM HAMMER, FORMER ASST. SAN FRANCISCO DISTRICT ATTORNEY: He stood where he's stood most of the trial, which is leaning off the side of the lectern. What's interesting is he had a very conversational tone, not a combative tone with her. And I agree with Laura that she has a soft voice, but this is a tough woman. She listens very carefully to the questions and I think her favorite phrases are, “I don't recall,” and, “Could you repeat the question?” It's almost like she's channeling Gloria Allred when she's on the stand.

(LAUGHTER)

VAN SUSTEREN: Geoff, on that note, what did Mark Geragos...

GEOFFREY FIEGER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: What a concept, channeling Gloria.

(LAUGHTER)

VAN SUSTEREN: Well, we'll get to that with Gloria in the next segment. I'll ask her that specifically. Geoff, what did the defense establish, if at all, in this cross-examination today?

FIEGER: Nothing. Absolutely nothing. He needed to stop while he was ahead, which was his joke, “I have no questions.”

He should have sat down right then. There's no purpose to be served by this. And anybody who thinks it's you're going to snitch on my guy and, therefore, I'm going to go after you — if you think that does you a world of good with the jury or you spend a day with her establishing what? That she pursued him? Big deal.

It might have been that, she might be a sad and lonely girl. But those tapes speak for themselves. What does he gain? And he doesn't seem to understand it. Geragos never, to my mind, has an understanding — although he may play for the cameras and everything, he never has a really intuitive understanding of how juries think and how juries work or he would be a much more successful lawyer when it came down to it. And he doesn't.

VAN SUSTEREN: In his defense, I've got to tell you, Geoff, I know you don't believe this: He is a very successful lawyer. But we'll leave that for another day. I know you think he hasn't won another case, but he has.

FIEGER: Which one?

VAN SUSTEREN: Well, he won McDougal, and we fought over that.

FIEGER: I don't think so.

VAN SUSTEREN: He won two McDougals, as a matter of fact.

Bernie, I actually agree with Geoff. What's the point of cross- examining this woman? I would have left her alone.

BERNIE GRIMM, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I mean, it's sort of prophetic that two weeks ago, you said, I bet you he stands up and says, “No questions.”

Now, either you had some inside information, or you knew that - - where does it get you? He already said in opening, I'll tell you my client's a bum. He's a liar. He lied to Amber Frey. He said he was going to spend the rest of his life with her. They were all lies. And when the case boils down to it, the state will argue it's sex, lies and videotape. Scott will argue it's sex, lust and videotape. So...

VAN SUSTEREN: Ted?

TED WILLIAMS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think it's sex, lies and audiotape. I've said over and over, unlike Greta Van Susteren, that Geragos should not do a cross-examination...

VAN SUSTEREN: Boy, you are such a liar.

(LAUGHTER)

VAN SUSTEREN: You are such a liar.

(LAUGHTER)

WILLIAMS: Hey, Jim, back me up. I've said there shouldn't be a cross-examination.

VAN SUSTEREN: Well, I've just got one thing to say. Clearly, I was right about this, Ted.

(LAUGHTER)

VAN SUSTEREN: Now you go ahead. All right, go ahead.

WILLIAMS: But the key is, Amber Frey is on the stand and Mark Geragos, unfortunately, is not making any points.

VAN SUSTEREN: He doesn't need to.

WILLIAMS: Well, the fact about it is...

VAN SUSTEREN: I mean, it doesn't hurt him, doesn't help him.

WILLIAMS: Geoff is right. Those audiotapes speak for this case and Mark is not going to get anything out of Amber Frey as it pertains to any of this. So I don't know why he's doing this. Mark, you should have sat down, asked no questions.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right, panel, stand by.

FIEGER: He needs channel Gloria.

(LAUGHTER)

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Well, we'll get to that one. Panel, stand by.

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