This is a rush transcript from "Tucker Carlson Tonight," October 12, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
TUCKER CARLSON, HOST: Good evening and welcome to "Tucker Carlson Tonight." Brett Kavanaugh has been sworn into his new position on the Supreme Court. But the Left has one arrow left in the quiver. One way they think they can stop him from serving on the Court.
We're going to tell you what it is later in the show joined by our Liberal Sherpa, Cathy Areu, she'll try to explain it. It's unbelievable and we're not overstating that.
But first tonight, Kanye West, as you know, spoke at the White House yesterday. He drew a huge amount of news coverage for what he said. Commentators generally were not impressed. Many of them dismissed the whole thing as a sideshow and, in some ways, they were right about that. West made a number of interesting points. But in the end, he's just an entertainer.
Donald Trump was there too. He is the President of the United States. He's the most powerful man in the world. And yet, also, like the rest of us, ultimately he's just passing through. There will be other presidents.
The question we should care about is bigger than two people, any two people. This is the most important question. Is America still a free country? Can people openly express their beliefs in public? Are they still allowed to say what they think is true without being punished for it?
That's what matters most. It matters far more than any single politician or rapper or mid-term election. And by that standard, the one that matters, what happened yesterday at the White House tells us a lot about America right now, much of it ominous.
In case you missed it, here's part of what Kanye West said yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KANYE WEST: You know, people expect that if you're Black you have to be Democrat. I have a - I've - I've had conversations that basically said that welfare is the reason why a lot of Black people end up being Democrat. They say, you know, first of all, it's - it - it's a - a limited amount of jobs. So the - the fathers lose the jobs, and they say, "We'll give you more money for having more kids in your home."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: So to sum up, Kanye West says that Liberal social programs have undermined the Black family. He notes that African-Americans face enormous pressure not to support Republicans. And he suggests that the Democratic Party often displays undisguised contempt for men and for masculinity.
When you think about it, these are not especially controversial statements. They are all obviously true for one thing. Anyone who pays any attention, at all, already knows that. What West said is so hard to rebut factually that nobody even tried to do that. Instead, they attacked him as a person. They attacked his decency and his mental condition. Now, if that sounds familiar it's because this is now a universal tactic on the Left. They don't want to argue with you. They want to denounce you.
Watch Don Lemon over at CNN deliver his deep critique of President Trump's domestic program.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DON LEMON, CNN: Why doesn't President Trump condemn racism? His own words and actions tell you why. He's a racist.
Let me not mince words here. This president traffics in racism.
Roseanne's tweet was straight-up racist, yet the president failed to condemn it. Why? Because he can't. Because his own words and actions are racist too.
And we have to stop pretending that this president has nothing to do with it that he's not emboldening racist and racism.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: The best thing about this style of argument is you don't actually have to learn anything, master any details because facts are irrelevant. What you're saying is my opponents are bad people, you must ignore them.
So it wasn't obvious though how the Left was going to pull any of this off with Kanye West. At first, they attacked him as crazy but that didn't really make sense. If you think that Kanye West is mentally ill, why are you attacking him for that?
And, of course, you can't really call Kanye West racist because he's Black. But then Don Lemon cracked the code. You must ignore Kanye West, Lemon explained to the rest of us because Kanye West is a traitor to his race. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: What I saw was a minstrel show today. Him in front of all of these White people, mostly White people, embarrassing himself, and embarrassing Americans, but mostly, African-Americans.
And now, all of a sudden, he is the person who represents the African-American community? He doesn't.
This was an embarrassment. Kanye's mother is rolling over in her grave.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: There you go. According to Don Lemon, Kanye West's skin color means that he is required to behave in a very specific way. If he chooses to behave in any other way, he should be punished because according to Don Lemon, Kanye West's race is his destiny. It defines everything about him.
People used to talk like this 50 years ago as they defended racial segregation in the American South. What a surprise to learn they are still talking that way? But this time, it's on CNN.
Michael Eric Dyson went even further though than Don Lemon. For the crime of being friendly with a politician he doesn't like, he says that Kanye West is actually, despite all obvious appearances, a practicing White supremacist. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, PROFESSOR OF SOCIOLOGY: This is time for us to say, "Kanye, we as African-American people cannot stand idly by while you give cover to a man who has proved to be a White supremacist."
This is White supremacy via ventriloquism. A Black mouth is moving but White racist ideals are - are flowing from Kanye West's mouth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: Keep in mind they're calling Kanye West the crazy one. But, of course, they don't mean it. They wouldn't be so angry at him if they did mean it. The real fear is that Kanye West isn't crazy at all and that you might listen to him.
This isn't about Kanye West or even about Donald Trump. It's about power, most things are. Suddenly a small number of ideological gatekeepers basically control what everybody else in this country is allowed to say and think.
These people work at Google, in CNN, in the U.S. Senate, maybe even down the hall from your office in the Corporate Sensitivity Department. They're enjoying the power they have because people always enjoy having power.
But they're worried because they can know they can only maintain this system, the one they benefit from through fear and lying. If enough people to decide to ignore their rules and think for themselves, it's over. They have no more power. A whole country of people saying what they think is true, that's their nightmare. That's what they fear the most.
It could all start by the way with a single person, I don't know, a rapper speaking stream-of-consciousness one afternoon in the Oval Office. And from there, who knows where it could go? Other people might stop hiding their unapproved opinions. It's a terrifying prospect to them.
Free speech is like a virus, better to stop it while you can. Don Lemon is no genius but he understands that.
Deroy Murdock is a contributing editor at National Review Online and he joins us tonight. Deroy, what are they saying, really are they saying about Kanye West?
DEROY MURDOCK, NATIONAL REVIEW ONLINE: Well Tucker, they're saying a couple of things. One is that unlike back in the 1960s during the Civil Rights Movement, you may recall a number of protesters holding up signs that said "I am a man."
MURDOCK: Essentially they're saying and he - he's not able to say that - he has to hold up a sign that says "I am not a man. I'm not allowed to think on my own. I may not have my own opinions. I must do whatever the Liberal orthodoxy says."
And because he didn't do that, people aren't saying "Well, Kanye was wrong on this or he's mistaken on that - that issue. He had his facts wrong." They had to denounce him as a minstrel, a Negro, kind of words you've not heard since - since Jim Crow was - was buried back - back in the mid-1960s. I think it's Epps extraordinary.
You know, you come on every night and people disagree with you and tell you you're wrong. But nobody says "Well Tucker, you're a bad White person or you're White trash"--
CARLSON: Exactly. That's exactly right.
MURDOCK: --or anything like that. They just disagree with your views. But they attack him as a human being and - and try to remove his - his blackness from him, which I think is extraordinary and hideous and disgusting.
CARLSON: But they're not even really treating him as a human being with autonomy and the right to form his own opinions, reach his own conclusions. They're treating him as an interchangeable piece of a larger whole like a - a nameless, faceless drone who must obey.
MURDOCK: He's a drone who's fallen out of line and they can't have that. And the fear, I think, they have is that people will listen to him and start asking questions like "Well isn't it interesting that we've had a President who after a year and a half has managed to bring Black unemployment to its lowest level in history? We're growing it twice where we were two years ago."
And suddenly, Black folks start to think well maybe this President's working out, his policies aren't - aren't this racist attack we've heard about that they might suddenly start voting that way, and the Democrats will be in very big trouble. So, very important to knock Kanye down, attack him, degrade him and dehumanize him, which is exactly what the Left is doing tonight.
CARLSON: Have you ever seen anything like this, so I mean am I mis- remembering? We're roughly the same age. I don't remember people using terms like that, terms that are so ugly I'm actually not going to repeat them. I'm not a very shy person. People didn't use to talk like that in television, did they, until recently?
MURDOCK: Not so much, not to this level and almost as uniformly and - and - and consistently across any number of cable channels, various people coming out.
This professor, Dyson, from my alma mater, Georgetown University saying the kinds of - kinds of things he is that Kanye's a White supremacist that he's a ventriloquist that I guess Trump is the puppeteer, you know, pulling his strings or something like this.
I mean if - if Donald - Donald Trump were a White supremacist, why would he have one of America's biggest rappers in the Oval Office? Wouldn't that destroy his White supremacist base?
I mean if David Duke were present you think he'd have Kanye West in the Oval Office? This makes absolutely - absolutely no sense. It's not logical. And I think it just shows the tremendous state - state of desperation in which the Democratic Left finds itself today.
CARLSON: It's - it's interesting the level of bullying that goes on. I mean you think - if they really thought he was crazy, and they're saying he's crazy because I guess it's OK to mock people's mental illness now--
MURDOCK: That's right.
CARLSON: --that's a - that's a new rule too that I might get used to--
MURDOCK: Same as my guess too.
CARLSON: Exactly. But if they really thought that he was out of his mind, they would smile indulgently like you do to the guy eating imaginary insects on the bus, right?
MURDOCK: Exactly. Or you - or you --
CARLSON: They don't think you're crazy.
MURDOCK: --we call a doctor and help them out something like that --
CARLSON: Exactly. Well, thank you, exactly.
MURDOCK: --well look, he - he talked about job creation. He talked about specifically improving the economy and the crime disaster in Chicago. He talked about Montessori schools. I mean it was definitely a stream-of- consciousness kind of a monologue, if you will, but he had some very solid things he had to say in there.
And he also made the point that why is it - where is it written that if you're Black, you have to be a Democrat? And he seems to be breaking away from that notion.
And if enough Blacks break away from that notion, the Democrats are going to be in really bad shape because Blacks constitute such a large part of the Democratic base that if eight out of 10 Black folks stay Democrat, and two out of 10 decide to vote Republican, the Democrats are going to go the way of the Whig party, and they'll be gone.
CARLSON: So but wouldn't - look, you've got to be - you've been in journalism a long time, you've got opinions. I certainly have them. They're on full display.
But wouldn't you feel a little bit - wouldn't your conscience ache a little if you found yourself night after night repeating the nastiest possible talking points on behalf of a political party and pretending that you were a journalist?
CARLSON: Would you do that? I've heard you attack the Republican Party many times.
MURDOCK: I - I - I wouldn't do that. I - I try to talk about - I present my opinions and try to back them up with facts and figures and - and quotes and - and evidence. These people aren't doing that.
MURDOCK: They - they scream "Oh, Trump's a racist. He's a racist. He's a racist." Where's the proof of that? If he were racist, why did he go campaign in Black churches in Detroit and in Flint, Michigan?
MURDOCK: Why did he go campaign in a charter school in Cleveland? Why did he bring in, one of his very first acts, the presidents of historically Black colleges and universities and - and welcomed them with an open - an office in the White House to assist them?
He made the MLK birthplace a national historical monument, something Obama could have done. He had eight years. He couldn't be bothered - couldn't bother to do that. And President Trump actually did that. Not - again--
MURDOCK: --not the kind of behavior you'd expect to see out of a White supremacist.
CARLSON: They're just saying what they think they have to say. It's just remarkable what hacks they are. It's really contemptible, I think.
MURDOCK: And cruel, I mean--
CARLSON: Yes, and cruel. I totally agree. I've never--
MURDOCK: --cruel too, harsh people--
CARLSON: --look, I don't know anything about Kanye West. I'm, you know, I'm not having dinner with him. But it just it's mean, and I don't - it's too mean--
MURDOCK: Mean and nasty --
CARLSON: --even for me, and I'm a talk show host--
MURDOCK: Very - very, yes, very--
CARLSON: --it's too much.
MURDOCK: --very mean for the Party of Tolerance, I'd say.
CARLSON: Yes. I agree with that. Deroy, great to see you tonight. Thank you.
MURDOCK: Great to see you, Tucker. Thank you.
CARLSON: Well more on the Lefts campaign to silence public dissent, a campaign you should pay close attention to because at some point this can be aimed directly at you. That's after the break.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WEST: So, and that's a move. One of the moves that I love that Liberals try to do, the Liberal would try to control a Black person through the concept of racism, because they know that we are very proud, emotional people. So when I said "I like Trump" to, like, someone that's Liberal, they'll say, "Oh, but he's racist." You think racism could control me? Oh, they don't stop me. That's an invisible wall.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: I'm sorry. We should have put up a warning underneath that video you just saw. He's crazy. He's mentally ill. He shouldn't be allowed in public. He's obviously a White supremacist, you could tell by looking at him. And that was in the words of CNN, a minstrel show. So, pay no attention. Don't let those words penetrate your consciousness.
Chris Hahn is an attorney, radio show host, and former staffer to Senator Chuck Schumer. He joins us tonight. Chris, great to see you. So, did that look like--
CHRIS HAHN, RADIO SHOW HOST: Great to see you.
CARLSON: --did that look like a minstrel show led by a White supremacist Kanye West to you?
HAHN: No. Look, I'm a fan of Kanye West. I do not think he looked extra fly in that spot last night. He did hit on a couple of points that I agree with. When he talked about stop and frisk, when he said let's take the "Again" off the hat because, you know, that is kind of the race-baiting that a lot of people see in it.
HAHN: He made some good points. He made some points--
CARLSON: What does race-baiting--
HAHN: -- I disagree with.
CARLSON: OK. I'll let that - I'll let that pass because it's - it's so dumb I can't even--
HAHN: Well, you know, I mean, you know, you know, you - you're appealing to people who didn't--
CARLSON: --get that --
HAHN: --like the Black president, they want to make America great again by removing--
CARLSON: Got nothing with Obama being Black, come on now, please--
HAHN: --them and aiding to that so--
CARLSON: OK. But whatever--
HAHN: --well I need to get out --
CARLSON: --I don't need to debate that. I just want to--
HAHN: --it is --
CARLSON: --look, so I like your posture. OK? Then let me just throw you a compliment and say I'm not here to defend Kanye West. I'm here to defend always the free exchange of ideas, honest discourse, let's stop the lying--
HAHN: Me too.
CARLSON: --the country's drowning in lying. Everyone lies all the time.
CARLSON: It's driving me insane. Why do you think there has been, and we're not making it up, you saw the videos we played, this effort to destroy this guy as a man because he's saying things that are unhelpful to the Democratic Party? I mean do you want to live in a country where people do that?
HAHN: You know, I don't think there's been an effort to destroy him as a man by Democrats across this country. I think there were some people who were particularly offended by it. I watched the entire Michael dust-- Dyson interview. I think that you pulled out some of the particularly harsh parts. But he was very kind to Kanye and his genius over years --
CARLSON: When - when - when he said he was a ventriloquist for White supremacism--
HAHN: --in his comments about Kanye.
CARLSON: --I mean there's nothing kind about--
HAHN: Well, you know, look--
CARLSON: --that. It's an awful--
HAHN: --he - he - he made - he made some--
CARLSON: --thing to say.
HAHN: --he made some harsh comments. And look, there's nothing President Trump wants more than to stand next to celebrities. But I will say this. When a celebrity comes out in favor of Trump, the Right goes crazy and they applaud.
CARLSON: You're right.
HAHN: When a - a Liberal celebrity makes a - a statement, they say "Shut up and act. Shut up and sing." That is - that's a - that's the thing I'm seeing here.
CARLSON: Look-- HAHN: I'm seeing conservatives rallying around--
CARLSON: Well, no, hold on, hold on, hold on--
HAHN: --with West and - and holding him up--
CARLSON: --you - you're--
HAHN: --and saying Liberal, you know, when a Liberal celebrity--
CARLSON: --but you're making a semi--
HAHN: --does it we're on it.
CARLSON: --hold on, you're making a semi-fair point. Let me agree with you that there is this impulse to dismiss people. I've participated in it. I regret that. Every time I dismiss--
CARLSON: --someone out of hand, I regret it. I think you should assess the substance of what they're saying. And I just read a long script that - that put the caveat and this guy's an entertainer. He's not like a policy expert. But what I really care about--
HAHN: Right. I heard you.
CARLSON: --underneath all of this partisan nonsense is the fact this is a free country I was born into, and it's becoming less free because the Left does not acknowledge another side to the debate, and they're trying to squelch speech. And they're doing it in the Congress--
CARLSON: --in HR departments, in the big tech world, they are hurting people who disagree with them. And I think as an old-fashioned Liberal, you want to stand up and say, "No, you're allowed to say what you think. Sorry."
HAHN: I - I - I - you are allowed to say what you think. And I - I think that includes protesters who show up on Capitol Hill to protest a Senate vote who the president or call - is calling an angry mob, and the Republicans are all campaigning--
CARLSON: They are an angry mob--
HAHN: --on that angry mob because they can't campaign--
CARLSON: Why wouldn't they? It's, look--
HAHN: --on ideas. If they had ideas to campaign on, they wouldn't have to try to scare--
CARLSON: Really? Look, I'm not here to defend, look--
HAHN: --their constituents to vote for them.
CARLSON: --I think I'm not here to defend the Republican Congress, which totally ignored--
CARLSON: --the expressed will of voters in 2016, who said we want a border wall. We've got 22 million people here illegally, let's do something about it. No, said their donors so they ignored it. So look, I don't want to get sucked into a debate defending something I don't believe in.
But I will say that it's not honest if you're claiming you don't know what I'm talking about that people are being fired across this country and savaged personally across this country for disagreeing with Liberal orthodoxy on social issues.
HAHN: Well no, I don't think that's true. I think people are being fired--
CARLSON: You don't see - you don't know what I'm talking about?
HAHN: --people are being fired and they're being removed for reasons other than that. They're being removed because they are in a workplace hurting people and making it hard for people to--
CARLSON: Oh hurting people? So - so - so - OK, so I get it, so--
HAHN: --head being there to work so--
CARLSON: --so, what you're doing is what they - they all do which is conflate speech with violence. But when there's actual violence, when a congresswoman gets shot at baseball practice or Ted Cruz gets pushed out of a restaurant--
HAHN: Right. We all condemn that.
CARLSON: --no big deal?
HAHN: I condemn that. I condemned what happened to --
CARLSON: Yes. Well I didn't hear a lot of other people condemn it?
HAHN: --Ted Cruz. Look - look, I condemn people getting attacked when they're out to eat with their families.
CARLSON: Good. Bless you.
HAHN: But I do not condemn - I do not call it an angry mob when people show up at Congress and - and - and protest, which is what the President, what Mitch McConnell, and what other Republicans across this country are doing right now.
CARLSON: Well it is an angry mob. You got all these people screaming--
HAHN: There is a right to protest and it's - and it's--
CARLSON: --OK. OK. So - so--
HAHN: --like you say Kanye has a right to go to the White House and say whatever he wants. There is a right for people to protest in this country--
CARLSON: But - but - but what they're saying - but hold on what--
HAHN: --and we all need to start respecting it and not demonizing the people doing it.
CARLSON: It - it's a little much for me to take a lecture about free speech and freedom of assembly when it's under attack exclusively by the Left and I'm defending it every night.
But let me just ask you, final question, you've heard from Don Lemon and that preacher guy, Eric Michael Dyson, who actually I think lives in my neighborhood, a rich White neighborhood, by the way, Mr. Man of the People, that he has an obligation, Kanye West, to take a certain position because he's Black.
Do you think that's true? Should Black people be required to vote Democrat? That's - that seems to be the position of your whole party.
HAHN: Look, I think it's been a long time since Kanye has had to split the buffet at KFC with anybody. I don't think it's a Black-White thing. I think it's a class thing right now for Kanye. And Kanye is making a lot of money on these tax cuts. Most Americans are not. That's the problem--
CARLSON: You're not - first of all, I can't - look, I'm not going to--
HAHN: --that's what we should be talking about.
CARLSON: --I don't know if Kanye eats at "KFC" or not. But I - I will say that with those --
HAHN: That's a line from one of his song--
CARLSON: --the buffoons on - yes, I'm sure--
HAHN: --one of his best songs, you should look it up.
CARLSON: --I'm not, whatever. But I'm not--
HAHN: So --
CARLSON: --I'm responding what people are saying right now which is Kanye West, as a Black man, is betraying Black people by voting Republican or being nice to Trump. Do you think that's true?
HAHN: Look I don't - I don't know. I don't think - I don't want to speak for African-Americans across this country.
HAHN: I do think that he's wrong and misguided by supporting this President because I think--
CARLSON: But are you allowed as a Black person to think differently from Eric Michael Dyson?
HAHN: --I think that this President - I think that this President who stood up and said that they were firing people on both sides--
CARLSON: You're not going to answer it.
HAHN: --of a White supremacist march--
CARLSON: Right. Yes, yes, Trump --
HAHN: --should not be supported by many people in this country who care about race relations.
CARLSON: Yes. Right. Well I - I care about race relations--
HAHN: So --
CARLSON: --which is why I'm not spewing racism on my show--
HAHN: Well, there's room over here for you, Tucker.
CARLSON: --unlike CNN does --
HAHN: Come on over.
CARLSON: Right. It's the last place I'd go. But thank you, Chris.
Across the country, the Left is relying on groups of angry screaming people, mobs, to push its agenda and to frighten its opposition. Even as they do, they accuse the Right of fetishizing violence. There's hypocrisy there. And, of course, we're on it like a dog.
Plus, Kanye West and others are under attack because they expose, among other things, how totally empty the moral authority of our ruling class is. That is explained in great and riveting detail in a brand new book called Ship of Fools. Consider buying it.
CARLSON: Well knots of screaming progressives, increasingly, a fact of life across the country, certainly here in Washington, leaders on the Left are causing this. They're egging on their followers, and from restaurants to the steps of Supreme Court, the followers are responding.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
REP. MAXINE WATERS, D-CALIF.: If you see anybody from that Cabinet -- you get out and you create a crowd.
ERIC HOLDER, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL: Whey they go low, we kick them.
UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: We believe survivors!
UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: Shut it down!
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
CARLSON: This has been going on for months now. Leaders of the Democratic Party has said virtually nothing about it. So, of course, it's getting worse. The headquarters of the Manhattan Republican Party was just vandalized in the Upper East Side after a week of getting harassing phone calls.
Meanwhile, the Left continues to project that it is the Right that is fetishizing violence. Howard Dean, who once ran for president, despite intellectual disabilities, wrote this. "Trump seems to like people who murder their opposition. Bet he'd like to do the same," said Howard Dean, former governor.
Dan Bongino was a former Secret Service Officer, an NRA television contributor, and he joins us tonight. Dan, this does seem like projection here. So the - as the Left--
DAN BONGINO, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: Yes.
CARLSON: --gets more violent, they become more convinced that it's actually the Right getting violent.
BONGINO: Yes. No, I don't - I don't believe for a second and I - I don't want to speak for you, Tucker, but I don't think you do either that the Left actually believes the Right--
BONGINO: --is violent.
And the reason I say that is they've had to fabricate stories to make the Right appear violent. Remember the famous episode up on the Hill during Obamacare where a number of congressmen alleged that they were - that racial slurs were hurled at them, and that they were spat on, and yet, numbers - multiple people said "Listen, we'll give you $10,000 if you can produce a scintilla video evidence that this--
BONGINO: --actually happened." And they didn't. You know, we had the famous Sarah Palin, you know, bull's-eye pictogram which have been used repeatedly throughout history, and that was an indicator of violence.
So, they're just making this up. But Tucker, I see two real problems here. Number one is, remember, the Left needs state power because they're takers.
They're takers of your money, your liberty, your freedom, your healthcare. They need state power to do that. As they lose it, this is almost like an extinction burst of behavior for them to use a psychological term.
But secondly, the real problem, Tucker, that I know you've been highlighting recently, is the media on the Left, their normalization of this chaos is deeply disturbing and it's an effort to cover for the Democrat Party, and that's what's troubling.
CARLSON: I totally agree. We have - we just got late this afternoon a video, kind of an amazing exchange. So, on Capitol Hill, as you know, it's now very common for people to show up and start screaming at lawmakers, Republicans.
Senator Bill Cassidy of Louisiana walking down the hallway this afternoon, I think this afternoon, and had this exchange. I want to put it up for our viewers to see it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Senator Cassidy, can you please apologize to my children for ruining their futures?
SEN. BILL CASSIDY, R-LA.: Hey, guess what? If in the future somebody makes an - I know your parents are using you as tools--
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, we're not using them as tools.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're not using them as--
CASSIDY: But if in the future - in the future, if somebody makes an allegation--
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: --tools.
CASSIDY: --against you and there's no proof for it--
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But let me - but--
CASSIDY: --you will be OK. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: --let me --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you should hope that the--
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: I think I don't know Bill Cassidy. But I'm impressed by his calmness and clarity. Is that the answer to screaming mobs? Calmness? Clarity?
BONGINO: Yes. It always is because and - and listen, Tucker, I don't think it's a big mystery that guy. I can - I can get feisty sometimes and my Queens personality comes out. But there's a reason this works.
When I ran for office in Maryland, I'll never forget this, you're not speaking to the Liberal. The Liberal, in - in many of these cases, this irrational is already committed to the fact that you're an evil person that not just that you have evil ideas, right?
What you're speaking to is the third-party listening. And in this case, the social media ecosystem because everything's on tape. People who see that are now going to say "Wait. That lady cared so much about her children, why did she chase Bill Cassidy down the hall then and leave them there? Oh but who brings their children up to Capitol Hill to confront the United States Senator?"
BONGINO: I mean listen, I'm all for big our rights to free speech to protest, but I mean that seems kind of outrage. What do your kids know about Supreme Court policy--
BONGINO: --or about the confirmation process? It's absurd. And it's just another way to make--
CARLSON: Well no normal parent would do that.
BONGINO: --Republicans pure evil.
CARLSON: To - to use your children as political props--
BONGINO: No, not.
CARLSON: --and drag them into a political debate is disgusting. And I'm saying that as a parent. I'm free to make that judgment. It's I don't think any normal parent would do that. It's bizarre, actually. Dan--
BONGINO: I wouldn't either, Tucker. I have two girls myself that's precious.
CARLSON: --of course, not. I mean I don't even talk politics with my adult children like please - thank you, Dan.
BONGINO: You got it buddy.
CARLSON: Well the Russia investigation has been out of the headlines for a while but it grinds on. We'll be joined by Jonathan Turley who says it could be time for Rod Rosenstein to recuse himself from that investigation. He'll tell us why after the break.
CARLSON: Kind of a fascinating Fox News Alert for you.
Hillary Clinton's security clearance has been revoked. This apparently occurred back in August. We only learned a short time ago from the Senate Judiciary Committee which got that information from the State Department.
According to the Committee, Clinton surrendered her security clearance. She asked to surrender it. We're still trying to find out exactly why. Five of her aides also lost their security clearances. That raises the question, why did Hillary Clinton and five of her aides have security clearances a year after the election, more than a year?
We don't know. We'll continue to follow this story. Maybe we'll find out.
Well, the Russia investigation, the one that's been going on since fire and the wheel were invented, basically, has receded into the background of politics. But that doesn't mean it's over. It's not.
Fusion GPS Co-Founder, Glenn Simpson, has announced he plans to plead the Fifth to avoid testifying before the House Judiciary Committee.
Meanwhile, George Washington University Law School professor Jonathan Turley says it is time for Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein to recuse himself from the entire Russia probe.
Professor Turley joins us now to explain why. Professor, thanks for coming on.
JONATHAN TURLEY, LAW PROFESSOR: Thanks.
CARLSON: Why should he recuse himself?
TURLEY: Well he should have recused himself 14 months ago. You know, he was a critical player in this whole series of events leading up to Comey's firing and following it.
He came in basically after the decision apparently was made to fire Comey, if you believe was some of the narratives put out there. But he was critical to that. His memo was cited by President Trump as a reason initially for firing Comey.
TURLEY: Then apparently, he became very upset. He had a confrontation with the White House. They walked that back. But he was clearly part of the discussions that certainly followed that firing, if not preceded it.
Now, to make matters worse, new reports indicate that this issue was raised last year by high-ranking officials including former Acting FBI Director, McCabe, who asked why haven't you recused yourself?
So this was being raised inside the Justice Department. People like myself are raising it outside the Justice Department, and he didn't do so.
CARLSON: But what's so striking, I think you make such a good point. What's so striking though is that the Attorney General himself recused himself. He was on our show that night. I'll never forget it.
And he did so because the permanent staff at DoJ, people like Rod Rosenstein told him he had to because he had some kind of conflict which seems less profound than the one that Rosenstein has.
TURLEY: Well yes--
CARLSON: Am I missing something?
TURLEY: --Rosenstein has a direct conflict. He's overseeing an individual who's investigating the obstruction claim that he is a critical witness to, if not the key witness, and that person has to report to him. Knowing that, Rosenstein determines how broad this investigation will be.
So, if there's a serious investigation of obstruction, Rosenstein is well outside the ethical navigational beacons. There is one other possibility, which is treating --
CARLSON: The ethical navigational beacons. I love - I think they're on the fritz here in D.C. just --
TURLEY: But there is one other - there is one other possibility, and that is that Mueller decided early on that it - it's not a serious allegation of obstruction, something that some of us reach that conclusion earlier that doesn't fit very well with the criminal code.
And if that's the case then he may have told Rosenstein this is not going to be an issue. The conflict's not going to be a problem because we think this might be a dry well. But either way, quite frankly, this is not someone who should be reporting to Rosenstein.
CARLSON: So, we've got about a minute left in this segment and I want to reserve that time for informed speculation, if we could. When are we going to see the fruits of this Independent Counsel investigation, do you think?
TURLEY: Well it's very telling that Mueller seems to be asking primarily about collusion, not obstruction. So, if that's the case, if he's now drilling down on collusion there may not be a lot left to do. But at the end of the day, you're going to have to wonder what all this time has been spent for.
We'll have to look at that report because most of these criminal charges are about false statements to the FBI or totally unrelated crimes. And so, Mueller is going to have that accounting himself as to why we pursued this for so long if there was so little there.
CARLSON: But that accounting would take place only in the court of public opinion since he's above all other authority, right?
TURLEY: Well I'm hoping that this report will be made public. I - I think that--
CARLSON: I hope so. Soon--
CARLSON: --soon. Professor Turley, thank you very much.
TURLEY: Thanks, Tucker.
CARLSON: It was great to see you.
Well Brett Kavanaugh, he's on the Supreme Court. The Left has a plan to stop him from continuing this work of Supreme Court Justice. It's - it's an unbelievable plan, actually, so unbelievable that only Cathy Areu, our Liberal Sherpa, can explain what it is. We'll be right back.
CARLSON: Well Brett Kavanaugh went through a lot to get on the Supreme Court, including bogus charges of gang-rape. But he's there and there for life or that's what you thought.
The question now is, is Kavanaugh's powerful legal mind strong enough to withstand the forces of witchcraft? It's a real question now. A coven of self-described witches in New York is planning a rally next week to put a hex on Justice Kavanaugh.
You can buy a ticket to attend this Hexing ceremony for 10 bucks, a quarter of that goes to Planned Parenthood to help them continue to fund their human sacrifice rituals.
Cathy Areu is the Founder of Catalina magazine. She's our Liberal Sherpa, leading us to the snowy peaks of American progressive thought. And she joins us tonight. The rarefied air, I'm feeling dizzy up here, Cathy.
CATHERINE AREU, CATALINA MAGAZINE: Yes.
CARLSON: Tell us, hexing--
CARLSON: --this would be kind of the latest tool in the progressive toolbox for positive social change?
AREU: The latest tool it's - it's going back - it's going backwards to witchcraft. We're going all the way back in our society to the days of hexing and - and witchcraft and yes, and spells and potions and Santeria.
CARLSON: Santeria. So, I mean that's not too surprising the - the party that conducts witch-hunts would also conduct witchcraft, right?
AREU: Well it's a group, actually, in Brooklyn. I have the information. It's going to be next week, October 20th in case any of your viewers wanted to go. It's going to be from 7:00 to 10:00 P.M., and everyone's welcome. It's open to the public. And if you don't have the $10, you're still welcome to go.
So, they're hoping that people who come to this hexing will then become activists and march and go to D.C., and have their voices heard. So, they're hoping it's a--
CARLSON: Isn't it--
AREU: --stepping stone.
CARLSON: Well it's - well it certainly is. It's a stepping stone--
CARLSON: --to some pretty dark stuff.
CARLSON: Isn't it unfair though, I mean if you want to change the public's mind on a question, shouldn't you make your case? Is it fair to engage in witchcraft against them?
AREU: It seems that they have this Trump Anxiety Disorder that we talk so much about that people are really kind of losing their minds, as Kavanaugh confirmation has caused people to now have to resort to witchcraft.
And I - I think they truly believe, this group truly believes, that this will work, and it's against rapists also in the United States. It's not just against Kavanaugh. It's against men who they consider rapists.
And they've had three hexes against Trump and they feel they were successful. They feel that the presidency isn't going as well. So, they're hoping that--
CARLSON: Doesn't this say something --
AREU: --this will settle matters.
CARLSON: --I mean we used to laugh at less-developed nations where people practice witchcraft and witches were killed, human sacrifice took place, cannibalism. What does it tell you that in the very heart of Brooklyn, hipster HQ, people are doing what they do in, you know, the - the most primitive places in the world?
AREU: I'm hoping - I'm hoping it's a 5K run type of thing. I'm hoping it's for awareness. I'm hoping that it's so extreme that they're doing it as a sign of just awareness and getting their thoughts out there and letting it be known that they don't support Kavanaugh. I - I can't imagine they believe that this hex will work. But perhaps some of them do believe in it.
CARLSON: But what - I mean a - a serious question and I'm, you know--
CARLSON: --I'm hardly a theologian or an expert--
CARLSON: --in this stuff.
CARLSON: But what if - what if it's true that not, you know, everything that's real we can see and there actually are spiritual forces, and you're sitting around with a bunch of other dumb people summoning up dark forces like would - would you want to be in the same room as something like that? Would you want to participate in that?
AREU: If they're like-minded people, and if I'm sitting with like-minded people and these are like-minded people, and they truly do not agree with Kavanaugh being in our Supreme Court, and yes I want to summon the dark forces, then I can go to an event. I mean it's America. There's an event for everyone.
CARLSON: Oh, no, right--
AREU: So here it is.
CARLSON: So but why wouldn't a hex be an act of violence against somebody?
AREU: I - I don't know if it necessarily works. It's a - it's a hex. I don't think they're necessarily going to send a - something hurtful to him. I - it's not hurtful. It's a peaceful gathering, from what I understand from what--
CARLSON: It's a peaceful hex?
AREU: --from what I understand, it's a peaceful hex. It hasn't bad intentions but they're like-minded people causing no one harm, wishing them harm--
CARLSON: Causing no one harm--
AREU: --wishing harm--
CARLSON: --I love that just hexing people--
AREU: --but causing no harm.
CARLSON: --no problem at all, turning people into zombies, summoning Satan to - to - to work his dark magic on people they don't like.
CARLSON: Not a big deal.
CARLSON: Hardly I get it. Are you going, by the way?
AREU: I'm - I - I don't think I'm going to go but if your viewers would like to go, we did share the information. I - I don't think I can make it.
CARLSON: I hope we didn't. I think it's the creepiest thing I've ever heard. And, by the way, what if it's real? I'm serious, like what if this is real? You want to be around that stuff? I'd run the other way. Run.
AREU: Well, it's against rapists. So, I mean if it's against bad guys and it's real then it's a good thing, but against Kavanaugh, nothing was proven against him.
CARLSON: Yes. We could --
AREU: So, I hope that's not real.
CARLSON: Cathy Areu, thank you very much--
AREU: Thank you.
CARLSON: --for that tour really of the dankest recesses of progressive America. Americans, by the way, all of them, of all political parties seem to be hopelessly addicted to their iPhones, their tablets, social media, to technology. How do we start to break free from all that?
All of us know it's bad for us and especially for our children. Jedediah Bila began the process of getting rid of all that garbage and she joins us next to tell us what happened.
Plus, we do wish we could blame America's problems on witchcraft. But the causes are much more mundane than that, a ruling class that has come to despise the very country that created it. That is detailed - it is the thesis of a new book called Ship of Fools. It's available everywhere.
CARLSON: With breathtaking speeds, smartphones, another new technology, have gone from conveniences to necessities. Most people now carry a pocket computer, a smartphone at all times. That's making it much harder than it ever has been to get away from work.
It's also creating new bad habits, more and more people addicted to it to texting, and social media, and the other trappings of a modern digital existence. What is it doing to us as people?
Well Jedediah Bila decided to find out. She's the former co-host of "The View." She's written a brand new book, "#DoNotDisturb: How I Ghosted My Cell Phone to Take Back My Life," making her a folk hero to many of us. And she joins us tonight.
So, Jedediah, you did what the rest of us dream about, which is return to a state of clear thinking--
JEDEDIAH BILA, AUTHOR: I'm on my way to--
CARLSON: --without a smartphone at your side.
BILA: Yes. I'm on my way back to sanity, it's unbelievable. This was--
CARLSON: So what - so tell us what happened?
BILA: --this was my personal responsibility manifesto for the tech age. And basically, I found that I was completely addicted to my devices. I had what I coin as OCTD, which is Obsessive Compulsive Tech Disorder.
And I went from someone who loved conversations face-to-face, who was engaged in real life moments, to someone who was always staring down at a cellphone and iPads--
BILA: --social media, and I started to realize it was affecting my sleep, it was making me more anxious, and I wanted to find out why is this happening, and what is it doing to our kids?
If you're a parent and you're concerned that your kids don't play outside enough or they're at a family event or a holiday and you can't pull them away from your phone, you need to get this book because these companies in Silicon Valley are programming these devices to get us addicted. They are hoping that we follow a compulsion loop--
BILA: --and they are studying behavioral psychology and behavioral science to get us addicted. And this is my call to arms for people who care about personal responsibility. Just because something is designed to get you addicted does not mean you have to follow suit.
You are still - I follow a We the People philosophy, you are still able to decide what role you want these things to play in your life, and that's what I did. I didn't throw away my phone. I didn't throw away my social media.
But I said, you know what, the way I'm using these things doesn't make me feel good. It's not bringing out the best in me. So, I'm going to--
BILA: --modify it. I'm going to change the way I use them to - to make it a - just a healthier means for - for myself - for myself and my life.
CARLSON: So, I believe everything you're saying and I believe in personal responsibility. But having gotten off camels after many years, I know that it's hard to stop doing something that you're addicted to. What were the consequences? I - I - I can imagine what the upside was.
CARLSON: I bet you felt a lot better. But what was the downside of it?
BILA: Well initially, I felt very anxious especially being in this business because this is a business where you're rewarded for being plugged in all the time. So, I had people telling me, you know, "Oh you're not going to be plugged in enough. You're not - you're going to become irrelevant," all that sorts of stuff plus just the feeling of anxiety that came over me. You'd be surprised that phone, that iPad becomes a security blanket for you. And you feel like--
BILA: --well that's how I'm connected to everyone all the time, my family, my friends, my emails, my work. Is my work going to suffer because anyone--
BILA: --with any job out there now no longer has the end of a workday because your workday goes all day. So initially, it was the anxiety of "Am I doing something wrong? Am I hurting myself, my career? Am I hurting my relationships with friends? Am I hurting," then ultimately I had to sit with that, and I had to do it, Tucker, step by step.
I couldn't just ghost my phone one day and say, "You know what, I'm unplugged. That's the end of it," because we're all human beings--
BILA: --and that's not how we operate. So, I had to take little steps. And one of the first things I did was take the phone out of the bedroom. When I decide that it's time for rest and sleep--
BILA: --I leave my phone in the other room. I charge it in a docking station. That was the best way for me to get my sleep back because now when I get up and go on a bathroom break, I'm not sitting and saying, "Wait a minute, let - maybe just one email. Let me see what's happening on Twitter."
Especially during times like what's going on with Kavanaugh and the hearings, you were plugged in so much that the temptation would be, "You know what? If I have this troll saying something to me on social media, let me answer them at 3 o'clock in the morning."
That's not good for me. So I decided, "You know what? I'm going to take these little steps and I'm going to make my life better." And I give prescriptions for what people can do. Turn your - your notifications off on your phone.
That doesn't mean you can't go and look at Twitter or you can't go and look at your email. But you're not constantly being back into those places on a constant basis with a buzzing cell phone. It's very different because you own your life if you make those changes.
CARLSON: Jedediah Bila, you are inspiring to all of us and I--
CARLSON: --having known you a long time, there is a calmness and a joy radiating from you that I attribute to your ghosting your phone, so congratulations and thank you.
BILA: Thank you so much.
CARLSON: Put down your phone and live your life. Love the people around you, listen to them, breathe deeply, advice we should all take.
Thanks for a great week. We'll be back Monday 8 p.m., the show that is the sworn enemy of lying, pomposity, smugness and, especially, groupthink which is everywhere. We'll see you Monday.
In the meantime, Sean Hannity.
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