Anti-bullying programs creating more bullies?

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," October 10, 2013. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Greg Gutfeld, along with Andrea Tantaros, Bob Beckel, Eric Bolling, and she wants shut up panda for sneezing, it's Dana Perino.

It's 5:00 in New York City, apparently.


GUTFELD: The death benefits fiasco is outrage in a bottle, the evil that seems Lex Luthor than legislative. A government that refuses to pay death benefits to men who died for their country is like a Republican flat point in an Oliver Stone fever dream. What's next, drowning orphans to save on laundry?

You can blame the left or right, but that misses the point, which is how evil presents itself. It's rarely hair raising or shocking. It's big, it's boring, it's bland, indiscriminate government. For big government to work, you must be subservient to the slab. It's the one-size-fits-all that socialists extol as they avert their gaze from the horror's rot.

When big government moves, it does so slowly but surely, rolling over those that cannot suppose because it's not supposed to see them.

A small, agile government would handle death benefits, for it understands priorities. You don't fund NPR while a widow weeps. You don't pay federal inmates while a widow weeps. You don't complain about reusing gym towels while a widow weeps. You don't set up barricades to block the views of monuments while a widow weeps.

You don't do anything while a widow weeps, except deal with the widow.

Any essential employee in any private company could tell you that. But the government is public, as the shutdown exposes the underbelly of unlimited bureaucracy. It's the triumph of the nonessential over the essential.

If we've learned anything from this slimdown, this may be the first non- essential administration ever. I'd say furlough all of them, but what they do in their free time might be worse.

Bob, stop chuckling. I know you think you want something today. So, I go to you first.


GUTFELD: Wasn't there a contingency plan in place for services needed for fallen soldiers?

BECKEL: There should have been.

Two things occurred to me. When Republicans passed this House bill, they fought and Duncan Hunter got a ruling saying that in fact, it did. You could have, if you read it 15 different ways, could have paid death benefits.

The Department of Defense and Hagel's people should have paid them.  There's no question about that. This is a screw up of major force on both sides.

GUTFELD: Yes, all right. Hagel, Eric? Hagel, Hagel, Hagel.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: The president has been so actively using his executive order, pens, signing stuff that bypassed the Constitution. You don't think he could have done it one more time?

BECKEL: No, not with money.

BOLLING: Oh, I think he could.

BECKEL: Take your little book out there and read who originate money --

TANTAROS: Why not? He did it with funding for Egypt?

BECKEL: No, you can cut off funding.

BOLLING: He's done it a lot of times.

Also, Hagel, what was going on? Do we know what was going while this was - -

GUTFELD: He tweeted about Gitmo.

BOLLING: Gitmo, he's looking to close Gitmo. He's trying to find the right people to close Gitmo. Where's the priorities?

GUTFELD: Yes, not enough.

Here's the thing Andrea -- Chuck Hagel, he's a veteran. Of course, he doesn't want dead soldiers not to get benefits. Shouldn't he have known about this? And as Bill O'Reilly said last night, this guy should go.  Should he?

TANTAROS: He should go. Why didn't he go to the president is what I want to know?

So, Duncan Hunter is correct. He thought that if you interpret this piece of legislation, the Pay Our Military Act, a certain way, they could have gotten benefits. My question is this, Greg, why were the lawyers and administration choosing to interpret it the narrowly tailored way that wouldn't give benefits? And if that is the case then, why didn't Chuck Hagel stand up, have a press conference, or go directly to the president and say I need your help in fixing this? And If I'm President Obama, I would go out there and I would say, not just for PR purposes, because it's the right thing to do, let's make this happen.

BECKEL: Then why did Duncan Hunter more clearly?

TANTAROS: And you know what he did do, Bob, this week? He allowed those illegals to protest on the National Mall. That is something that needed White House approval. He gave them that. He gave funding to Egypt with his executive pen. He signed the DREAM Act with executive pen. He did a lot of executive orders.

He doesn't want to do this for some reason. We don't know when he learned about it.

BECKEL: He cut money to Egypt.

TANTAROS: No, he sent money.

GUTFELD: I want to get Dana into this.

Is this -- you know, we've seen a lot of deliberate punitive actions over the last couple of weeks escorting people out, putting up barriers. Is it wrong to see this as punitive, or is it simply incompetent?

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Well, I think that's a problem because you could look at it both ways. In the environment that we're in, people are -- you're going to basically say, they did it on purpose or they didn't.

This is what I don't understand. Talking about incompetence, this is how you could have handled it. As soon as the Department of Defense lawyers heard about this, could have called the White House lawyers to say, we've got a problem here and fix it on the back end, and then make a joint announcement, or, you know, they always leaked stuff to "The Washington Post" and "New York Times" anyway about how great they are, and have said, you know what, we caught a problem over the weekend but it's really solved.  No problem. Instead, they just continued to rub the spot on the wall and make it so much worse.

GUTFELD: That's a good metaphor.

This is an exchange today in the House hearing between the DOD comptroller and Congressman Coffman. Let's roll that.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You chose to do an interpretation to just maximize pain. You've compounded the problem by your conduct and how you've misinterpreted intentionally this law.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I resent your remarks. I acted on the advice of attorneys and our best reading of a loosely worded law. We did our best.  It was not a political judgment.


BECKEL: That is outrageous. What's that congressman's name? That bum who said that. Why didn't you write the law clearer? How's that for an idea?

You didn't. And now you're coming back to try to get some -- suggesting these people didn't want to pay death benefits. Chuck Hagel is a veteran and you're not. And you're sitting there saying that? That's disgraceful.  That's the worst politics I've seen in this whole thing.

GUTFELD: But. Bob, he did respond. I acted on the advice of attorneys.  That's really courageous. I acted -- why didn't you say I acted on behalf of the fallen troops?

BECKEL: I understand that. And I think Dana's formulation was right.

But the fact is that they had to react to it -- attorneys reacted to what was a badly written law that did not specify this. And it was a Republican law. What are you going to say? You should have caught it.

PERINO: I don't think you can call it Republican law because they all took credit for it initially, that everybody -- from the president to the Senate, to the House, everybody was claiming the credit for passing the Military Pay Act so military will get paid. I don't like the military being used as political pawn in this. That's why I wish that they would have just dealt with it on the backend, quietly, got it taken care of because it looks like they had the power to do so.

TANTAROS: And the president is an attorney himself, there is flexibility in how you read certain laws. And if you read the memo put out by Duncan Hunter's office, there's a lot of leverage for them to interpret this law, especially in this -- interpret it, be flexible and have someone stand up and challenge it.


BECKEL: Subsection X, death benefits will be paid, how's that?

TANTAROS: How can the White House be comfortable sending out Carney out everyday not giving Henry a specific day of when the president learned about this? They've done it with the IRS scandal, "The A.P." scandal. The president is either above the fray or his advisors just think he's not going to care.

BECKEL: Why didn't they write to say simply, and death benefits will be paid. That's not hard to figure out?


BOLLING: For me, what's even more outrageous and I could be completely wrong about this, Fisher is still paying for this, right?


BOLLING: So, we have 435 congress people vote in favor of paying the benefits. I assume the Senate did or will do the same thing to be unanimous. You have, Fisher House has to pick up the tab?


BOLLING: My point is, why do they have to reply on the public sector to take care of --

BECKEL: They shouldn't have to. You're right. You're exactly right.  They shouldn't have to. But it should have been clearly written and the president should have clearly caught it and Defense Department should have caught it. But it wasn't caught. And I think it's a pox at everybody's house.

But the idea, to use this thing to jump on this guy, the Defense Department, by this punk Republican congressman --


PERINO: I think they used it as a political bait for the Republicans. I think that that, I think that their political calculation, which is why the question of when did President Obama learn about it which is an important one. That's true on "The A.P." scandal, on IRS, on Benghazi, all of these things, you never know what the president's involved in.

BOLLING: You know when he knew, when he heard it on THE FIVE.

GUTFELD: Of course.

BOLLING: Hear everything on the news..

GUTFELD: Exactly.

By the way, since when did they care about badly written laws? I mean, that's kind of rich, as we're enduring the worst written law ever and you're saying -- by the way, isn't this in the DOD government shutdown contingency plan? Operation of mortuary affairs, activities and attending other services necessary to properly care for fallen and their families.  Isn't it already there?

BECKEL: It is, but it has to be appropriated. That's what the House did, because that's where appropriations bills originated. That's why they did this bill.

TANTAROS: And the Senate passed it and now, the White House is threatening to veto it because of other --

BECKEL: They signed it. Excuse m. He signed it.

TANTAROS: Earlier in the day, no.

BECKEL: Well, you better check that --


TANTAROS: This is what I don't understand. The story broke on I think what, Monday, Tuesday? We are at Thursday now. The president still has not said anything about this. So to Dana's point, you wonder why haven't they acted? Do they think they could have used this as a weapon against Republicans? So, they could have said, because of them, it's their fault and the public would have believed it. That's not how it's turning out.

GUTFELD: Did they reinterpret the law in such a way to make Republicans look bad. Obviously, nobody wants to do this, Bob.

BECKEL: Right.

GUTFELD: So, why did they interpret the law that way?

BECKEL: I don't want to correct Andrea on this. I think she's right about them not answering the question about when the president knew. But the law was signed and has been in place now for a couple of days.


BECKEL: Let's check it. But I'm telling you, I believe when they answered these questions, we didn't catch it when the president signed it, is what they should have said. But nonetheless, there's blame to go around pointing here. But nobody, but nobody wants to see these people not paid.

GUTFELD: That's my point. So, why did they interpret the law so it wasn't possible?

I want to go you brought up Ken Fisher. He was on "The Kelly File" last night. It's a new show, doing very well, I might add. He's the CEO of the Fisher House Foundation talking about getting involved.


KEN FISHER, FISHER HOUSE FOUNDATION CHAIRMAN: We mobilized without hesitation and take over for the government in this capacity.

MEGYN KELLY, THE KELLY FILE: Did you volunteer it or did they call and ask?

FISHER: Well, I got a call from Senator Manchin from West Virginia who asked if we would be willing to help. Of course, there was no other answer but yes, every decision should be that easy.

KELLY: When did you get the call?

FISHER: That call came yesterday morning.

KELLY: Yesterday?



BOLLING: Interesting he got a call from whom?

BECKEL: Pardon me?

BOLLING: Did you hear who Mr. Fisher got the call from?

BECKEL: No, I was trying to get an answer to the answer from our producers.

BOLLING: Senator Manchin.

BECKEL: Yes, senator from West Virginia, yes.

BOLLING: Not the White House.

PERINO: Not the DOD, Department of Defense.

BECKEL: Right.

PERINO: Good for Joe Manchin.


PERINO: That's what I like. OK, Senator Manchin didn't put out a press release saying I solved this. What he did was the right thing than elected leader or anybody in the leadership should do. The classy thing, I think I have a solution. Let me call the Fisher House. The Fisher House responds, it all gets unveiled.

And Joe Manchin wasn't taking victory laps around the White House or Congress.

TANTAROS: He also had a rough week. Last week, when he had his staff released a picture of him answering his own phones in a Senate office because he had no staff, which I, oh, poor baby you have to talk to your own constituents.

But, you know, if we look at this in isolation, for example, and take the IRS out of it, take the World War II Memorial out, take the military chaplains getting threatened with arrest if they continue to practice and serve God, instead of serving Obama, take that aside, maybe I could see this as an isolated incident.

But if you look at the track record of this administration especially with the shutdown, and you look at military benefits, Greg, it's a trend. It makes sense. They do this stuff deliberately. They target these groups deliberately. It can't just be all incompetence.

BECKEL: I think it's --

TANTAROS: Could it be, Bob?

BECKEL: It could be incompetence, but to suggest that they would target people for things like this I think is really going over the line.


GUTFELD: That's the issue.

The thing is, though, if your best defense is that we're all incompetent, that's a great defense. We suck. Sorry.

PERINO: Go us.


BECKEL: That's why the rest of America is looking at this and absolutely amazed --

PERINO: The rest of the world. Think of how our enemies are using this against us. The American military won't even pay for its own military funerals. You can imagine the Russian press.

BECKEL: How about -- you could put the blame where it belongs on Ted Cruz and the Tea Party.


GUTFELD: All right. We're going to talk about that later.

Ahead on THE FIVE -- you may not want to know what's happening in Washington right now with the shutdown soap opera. But Eric is going to tell you any way and that's next.

Later, a man with millions of dollars but fails to claim his prize in time.  We'll tell you his sob story coming up.


BOLLING: Day 10 of the government shutdown and there are new developments in the negotiations between Speaker Boehner and the White House. Right now, House Republicans are meeting at the White House with the president and are expected to merge any minute. We'll go through it when they do.

Let me first take you through what we saw today, sensing an opening this morning. Speaker Boehner offered President Barack Obama a six week hike of the debt ceiling. But in return, he wants the president to offer some real spending cuts in order to reopen the government.


REP. JOHN BOEHNER, R-OHIO, SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: So, what we want to do is to offer the president today the ability to move, a temporary increase in the debt ceiling, in agreement to go to conference on the budget, for his willingness to sit down, discuss with us a way forward to reopen the government.

I would hope that the president will look at this as an opportunity and a good faith effort on our part to move half way -- half way to what he's demanded -- in order to have these conversations begin.


BOLLING: Jay Carney proved Boehner's instincts were right and agreed that Obama would sign onto that agreement. OK, I don't have that.

Anyway, that's what they said he said. I'm not sure he said exactly that.

But let me get you up to speed now. So, they're in the meeting. While they're in the meetings, Senator Harry Reid who's not in the meeting, remember the meeting between the White House and the GOP, Harry Reid who's not in the meeting, said, you know what, I don't think we're going to sign it. So, even if President Barack Obama agree with them, Harry said he is not interested in separating these two ideas.


TANTAROS: Question?

BOLLING: The question is, who wins? Who loses? Is this going to turn on Democrats?

TANTAROS: I think Boehner did something very smart. He came to President Barack Obama and he said, OK, I'll raise the debt ceiling for a short period of time. President Barack Obama and White House aides have been on record saying they want a clean debt ceiling, clean debt ceiling, clean debt ceiling.

John Boehner is saying, I may give you half of that. I think after the president has lectured so much the American people, the consequences of defaulting on our debt, there's no way he can back off. And my sense is that Harry Reid showed up on that meeting pretty angry because he's taking a lot of heat, been the most stubborn so far. It will be interesting do see if Obama just shelves him and compromises.

But I do think that John Boehner should keep mind one thing -- he should keep the government closed like he said he was going to and link the IRS in taking their ability to enforce the Obamacare mandate out of their hands and make that the bargaining chip for reopening --

BOLLING: So, the world is now seeing House Republicans put together another bill that gives Obama what he wants. He wants a clean C.R. He wants another trillion in the government checkbooks. He's got exactly what he wants.

Why can't he come to the table and make a deal?

BECKEL: Well, there is -- there will be a deal within 48 hours, maybe less, maybe a few hours more. But it's already in the mix. Senator Collins from -- a Republican -- is now -- from Maine -- is now saying she's been tasked with coming up with a compromise between Republicans.

She doesn't think it's just the debt ceiling alone that's enough. But you need to open the government, but with things put on there like government people take the insurance themselves, the medical device tax, things on there that I think the Republicans can say, OK, we've got something out of it.

But in the end, let's not kid ourselves here. This was a bit of a blink.  But nobody comes out of this smelling right including me here. I want to apologize to that congressman. I don't apologize for what you said because I still think it was not a good idea.

But you were a veteran and I apologize for that. And so, there you go.

BOLLING: All right. Dana, can we talk about this for a second? The market rallied. The market loved the fact that the Republicans said, hey, look, we have something for you.

PERINO: And from a communication standpoint, if your problem at the White House is that your boss looks intransigent, that he's the one who's dug in his heels and he's not even practicing the rudimentary principles of negotiation, and then you have John Boehner, who's the adult in the room who comes out and says, OK, we'll offer this. I define that as a loss. I define that as very smart. And I think they'll be able to get it.

One thing the White House doesn't want, they don't want to do this every six weeks. Crisis management should not be routine. But to do this again would be a disaster for the White House. I know it because they wouldn't be able to deal with anything else that they really want the president to be able to do in the next three years.

BOLLING: Greg, the polling showing Republicans were taking a hit on this, does this deal that Boehner offers and have the Democrat say, no, does that turn and put the blame on them a little bit?

GUTFELD: If the Republicans got less popular, they would be the media. I hope that this happens every six weeks for two reasons, because I can recycle all my jokes and (b), maybe it does keep them from doing other things, like enacting foolish climate change legislation which could hamper business even more. Let them walk around doing this crap.

By the way, you know, if four weeks or five weeks if you were in a coma, you didn't miss anything. We knew what this was going, you know?

BOLLING: Hey, guys, we're day 10 in ObamaCare. They promised it would work properly. Take a listen.

Hold on. Listen.


KATHLEEN SEBELIUS, HHS SECRETARY: I want to be clear. We're ready to go on October 1st.

JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: On October 1st, everyone will be able to enroll one way or another.

PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Most of the stories you'll hear about how ObamaCare just can't work is just not based on facts. Every time they have predicted something not working, it's worked.

These marketplaces will be open on Tuesday no matter what.


BOLLING: Well, Tuesday, but he failed to mention which Tuesday.

Go ahead, Bob. Let's --


BECKEL: I think there's no denying here what they probably should do, I don't think a year is a right thing to do, but I think they do need to pull back here for a second. This thing is not working. It's not working, and it's not just a glitch. It's an architectural design problem.

Could we make one other point here? The Republican Party in the Gallup Poll from the beginning of time sunk to the lowest level in history.

BOLLING: I mentioned that.

BECKEL: You did mention that?

BOLLING: You have to ask yourself a question. At what point did they not offer themselves?

BOLLING: Let's stay on topic. Greg, we don't know how many people signed up. Did not a lot sign up and they're embarrassed? Or is it that they're just really that?

GUTFELD: I have more houseboys in my apartment than signed up.

Saying ObamaCare is decent launch is like saying the Hindenburg left unscheduled.

But you know what kills me about this whole thing, Obama loves to say about everything, we knew it wasn't going to be easy. He says that about every single thing. Well, get this -- easy is a marker of success. When something unfolds like an Apple launch, there's all these people that work hard to make it happen.

He somehow believes that we deserve the punishment of failure. That it's just going to be hard, never said this was going to be easy, and it's your problem. It's so that he didn't actually work that hard on this.

He never read the bill. He didn't care. This was some kind of thing he let Pelosi do. We're now all getting it.

His excuse, never said it was going to be easy.

BOLLING: They knew there were going to be millions -- they said this is to make sure that 38 million, 40 million people can get health care. They knew a lot would hit it. There are web designers saying that they could this do for a couple of hundred bucks.

PERINO: I wish they would have been smart enough and not said October 1st it's going to be great. They could probably point to some sound bites where they were cautious, but if you pull all those sound bites together, they told the American people this would be set. It's not set.

What is set is that you will be fined at the end of the year as an individual. You will get a fine from the IRS if you don't have health insurance set by December 31st.

BOLLING: No, you'll get a tax.

PERINO: Oh, it's a tax.

BOLLING: To make it constitutional.

PERINO: They will get taxed.

TANTAROS: Kathleen Sebelius penned an editorial on USA Today, which we talked about earlier in the week, saying and the headline was that ObamaCare is simple and user friendly. If I'm her, why wouldn't I put out a piece where I have to eat a little bit of crow and explain there are problems and ask for patience.

Instead they just tell you the opposite as if people are stupid.

And, Greg, you're absolutely -- President Barack Obama had his hands off this thing from the beginning. Reid and Pelosi did it. He never got involved in the details. And now, I don't understand why he doesn't take the delay of the individual mandate.

PERINO: The whole thing will fall apart.

TANTAROS: Republicans would offer it. I can't believe they would give him an out like this.

BOLLING: We've got to go.

BECKEL: Just one fast thing. Somebody here should hang for this. I mean, what's amazing to me, Obama shouldn't have to deal with this day by day.  No president deals with that.

Somebody should be sent out the door for this thing not working. Whether the --

BOLLING: The NSA can data mine 11 billion e-mails and calls a single moment. ObamaCare can't handle 50,000.

GUTFELD: By the way, they should pay the media. How many people are really -- I mean, they're not jumping on this. This is an absolute catastrophe.

BOLLING: We've got to leave it there, Bob. Sorry.

Coming up, a Democratic turns an ObamaCare hearing into a ridiculous sideshow.


UNIDENTIFEID MALE: Have you been consorting with the devil?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not to my knowledge, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are reports that you can fly accurate?


BOLLING:  And not surprisingly, an IRS official played right along, when THE FIVE returns. We'll be right back.


TANTAROS: Well, the same agency that's been targeting the Tea Party and conservatives is now in charge of making sure that you signed up for ObamaCare or you will pay. It's the good old IRS, and frighteningly, the same woman who headed the division that did the targeting now heads the ObamaCare enforcement division.

Now, people are rightfully concerned about Sarah Hall Ingram's powers. But a Democrat from Virginia made a mockery of them yesterday.


UNIDENTIFEID MALE: Have you been consorting with the devil?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not to my knowledge, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are reports that you can fly accurate?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Greatly exaggerated sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you been involved in any way in trying to pervert our youth in Salem or anywhere else?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I certainly hope not, sir.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ms. Ingram, I want to say at least on this side of the aisle, you're an esteemed public servant.


TANTAROS: What a mockery.

Greg, on the same day you saw that happen, a report was release had the likely that office that Sarah Hall Ingram worked for sent taxpayer information to the White House to talk about the contraception mandate. He just made a mockery like it's some big joke.

GUTFELD: I don't know. I know it's 5:30. Am I allowed to use the word d- bag? He is a monumental d-bag. He's actually mocking the constituents that pay his salary which is collected by the IRS.

He was the cog of the machine that was kissing the butt of the machinist.  It's disgusting to me. And also, it's an attack on witches. Witches, they're called sorceresses and they never would engage in this corruption.  If I was a sorceress I would cast a spell on a whole lot of them.

BECKEL: You have a lot of friends who are sorceresses.

GUTFELD: I do. They're lovely people.

TANTAROS: Even the president, Eric, said that the IRS scandal was a big deal. Of course, he's done about it. No one has been fired, everyone is getting their benefits it seems. So, I guess they just take this as a big joke.

BOLLING: So, Bob asks the question time and time again, where's Darrell Issa? Where's the committee? Why can't they get answers? And the reason why they can't get answers is because this jerk asked stupid questions.

That was a colossal waste of time.


BOLLING: No, because here's why -- because you have half the committee who are Democrats who are doing stuff like that instead of caring about the country. They don't give a crap about the country. They care about making sure they don't look bad because it's an Obama IRS.

BECKEL: Come on.

BOLLING: Bob, if they cared about the country they wouldn't --


BOLLING: Can I make a point?

BECKEL: Yes, please?

BOLLING: I would tell you, that man had five minutes, right, or whatever the time allotted, he had five minutes to ask a pertinent question, important question to all the country whether you're Democrat or Republican. What the hell is going on with the IRS and how high does it?

And he instead chose to make a joke out of it, talking about witches in Salem and crap like that. That's disgusting. He should be walked out of that --

BECKEL: Listen, I think it was a terrible question too, because you can't blanketedly indict and say all Democrats don't care about the country.

BOLLING: Do you think they're asking tough questions on the Hill from the Democrats side of these people?

BECKEL: I haven't heard all of them. We edited that one.


BECKEL: It was the only one we picked out.

TANTAROS:  Since the Democrats aren't asking tough questions, since the media isn't asking tough questions, and Democrats aren't asking them, either, our own Griff Jenkins decided to follow Sarah Hall Ingram and finally ask some questions.

Here's Griff.


GRIFF JENKINS, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: What assurances can you give the American people that the IRS is competent at this time to oversee ObamaCare? Can you give American people assurance there won't be targeting under the ObamaCare enforcement? What role did you play in the targeting of conservatives in tax-exempt organization that you oversaw? Incredible that you won't stop and give some confidence to the American people, some assurance this will not happen under your watch as the Obamacare person.


TANTAROS: We're always looking at their back, Dana, like Louise Lerner, just like on the way out with fire trails.

PERINO: You know, the Democrats as much as I said to have the laugh track behind and staff high fiving each other because their boss was so clever, one thing they forgot to do is to provide her the exit plan. You always have to have an escape.

So, instead, the best part we didn't show, last night on Greta's show, in Griff's package, they get lost on their way out. They can't find their way out of the building. It was pretty funny. But the issue isn't funny.

TANTAROS: The roadrunner always finds a way out.

PERINO: The d-bag thing was funny.

GUTFELD: Thanks.

TANTAROS: This is the woman, though, that's going to be heading the ObamaCare enforcement office. So, it's not really funny.

BECKEL: But not --

TANTAROS: Next, our anti-bullying programs in America creating more bullies? Dana has some surprising statistics when we come back.


PERINO: Welcome back to "The Five." I'm going to, Greg. It's not the next segment.

Over the last two years the problem of kids bullying kids has gotten more and more media attention. And in fact this month, it's National Bullying Prevention Month, Greg.

You might remember this powerful documentary that helped shine a light on the issue just last year.


UNIDENTIFIED BOY: They punched me, strangled, take (INAUDIBLE). Sit on me.

UNIDENTIFIED BOY: Give it to him hard.

UNIDENTIFIED BOY: I feel nervous on the school bus. I have trouble thinking.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They say he's a geek. Some kids told him he's worthless to go hang himself. He got to the point where enough was enough.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A Perkins boy just 11 years old believed to have been desperate enough to take his own life.


PERINO: Many schools in the country have developed programs to try to help counter bullying. But according to a new study, some of that may have an opposite effect. They found that students at schools with those programs might be more likely to become victims of bullying.

Greg, what do you think of this? Is it that you can't legislate human behavior?

GUTFELD: Yes. I think in a way you have to punish acts instead of creating programs. A lot of bullying I think comes from the elevation of cool over decency.

Cool is a psychological velvet rope of exclusion created by people who want to be hip to marginalize others. And I think that's why I always I find celebrities that talk about bullying are hypocrites, because they are the bullies. But I think programs don't work as well as punishment. All you've got to do is punish one bully in front of others and that's it.  You don't see anybody punishing those people.

In that horrifying video, there was no punishment going on.


BECKEL: I'm sorry.

PERINO: I was going to say, Eric, because you're a dad of a 15-year-old son, strong parental guidance and teachers who are empowered to be able to make decisions and aren't afraid of their students or consequences of discipline, is that the answer?

BOLLING: I think you hit on it.

I agree, Greg. Forget the legislating. Let the punishments be severe harsh and quick.

But the real issue is -- Dana, you hit it, parents aren't teaching kids that bullying someone else -- yes, when your kids are getting bullied they're up in arms. But when your kid is the bully, it's like OK, I don't want to deal with it. Kids need to be taught that what you're doing is hurting kids and absolutely could be happening --

BECKEL: I'm sorry --

PERINO: I was going to say to Andrea, it's not just boys that bully other boys. The cyber bullying and things that happen online, and a lot of girls involved. These programs aren't helping. Why do you think?

TANTAROS: I would argue girls have become worse than boys. I believe it's because the schools don't take action. They say they do, they don't.

And to Eric's point, parents aren't wanting to deal with their child being accused as a bully. Parents will actually go in and defend their child.  They will say that my child would never do such a thing and then the school says, well, one word against another word, we're just too busy other things, so we're just going to let this go on.

And it happens. It happened to me, mean girls. I mean, it's like the movie. The Internet has made it worse.

But schools have to toughen up. Parents need to get involved. This is where the local media can be of help to put pressure on schools and school districts to put really harsh penalties in place and zero tolerance.

PERINO: Let's give the last word to Bob. I'm sorry we're running out of time, Bob.

Why do you think the programs aren't working?

BECKEL: Well, part of a program ought to be the punishment. Instead of just saying, my boy (INAUDIBLE)

That kid, that horrible video, you know what should have happened. I've never seen a bully who's father or mother wasn't a bully himself. Those kids are bully, their parents should have been put in jail, the kid should have been put in jail.

They ought to be ashamed of themselves. They're punks. To allow their kids to do that to a child like that goes right to your doorstep, right home. When you look at a bully, you go back to the house, and you'll find bullies in their home.

PERINO: Good point.

All right. Up next, with all the back and forth bickering in Washington, not here on THE FIVE, Bob has an important reminder for all of us. Stick around for that.


BECKEL: Greg liked that one, too.

I don't really share many political views with my co-host here at this table, as you probably know. But I'm very thankful to call each and every one of them a friend for life.

It's important to not let politics ever get in the way of friendships, a lesson summed up all too well by another one of my friends for life, Cal Thomas.


CAL THOMAS, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: Here in Washington, we are defined by labels -- Republican, Democrat, liberal, conservative, gray, straight, religious, secular.

Labels keep us from knowing each other. It's also a lazy person's way to avoid the time it takes to develop deeper relationships. If we can pigeonhole people we think there's nothing else to know about then. It saves us time but it costs something of greater value.

Politics and parties come and go. But true friendships last forever. Bob is a true friend, my true friend, whom I'm come to love and admire for things that matter most.


BECKEL: Well, that was Cal's introduction in my event this week.

But I think the message is far bigger than just the two of us although I share the feelings Cal back at you. It is true that it's getting worse and worse, isn't it?

Let me ask you, Dana. Do you think this that division is something really interrupting potentially good friendships?

PERINO: Well, not in my own personal experience.

GUTFELD: You don't have any friends.

PERINO: I have a dog.

Here's an example. There's a reason you don't talk politics at dinner parties, right, because you can fall out with your friends or your families. The biggest fights at Thanksgiving is when uncle so and so brings up politics.

We don't have that luxury here. And there are times like when I worked at White House, you were surrounded by people that all agree with you all time, when you break out of that comfort zone, you realize you can't have friendships whether from the right or the left.

The identity of politics has become stronger partly because of online.  People don't necessarily join groups anymore. But you're strongly identified with a smaller group of people and you're only talking amongst yourself. It can be harmful.

BECKEL: You and I have significantly different politics to say the least.  I'm a liberal and you're wrong.

Seriously, do you think this identifying people by labeling them is causing us -- forget just friendships but, I mean, the bigger question as a country, as a government, are we grinding to a halt?

BOLLING: Yes, we're becoming more partisan. I mean, we've talked about this a bunch of times in the show. So many people, even recently, because of this that we -- you know, we've been airing a bunch from your Caron speech.

People say, do you really like Bob or just saying that? No, you're my friend. I can be friends with you and completely disagree with everything you say on air and go out and hang out and be friendly with you. I think that's important. I do think you're wrong.

I think offense with the Tea Party, some of your characterization of the Tea Party, but we'll get over that.

BECKEL: There you go.

What do you think?

TANTAROS: I think Cal is right. I think it's very easy to put people in boxes and not deal with them, because tolerance is hard work, because it means changing something within yourself to look at somebody else differently. People don't want to do that. They get stuck in their own way.

Look, we all prejudge. People who throw away these racist levels and your prejudice, everybody prejudges. Is it right? No. But we do it. And it does take more work and we should work to take -- I mean, to be more accepting of others. Although I still will never date a liberal.

BECKEL: You don't prejudge, Greg, do you?

GUTFELD: No, I don't like anybody.

The most important phrase is identity politics. We're living in a time people want to be defined by who they are not what they do. Whether it's your sexuality or ethnicity, I don't want to be around you if that's what you are.

If you're happy about what you have no control over, I don't want to be around you. I want to be, you know, I want -- it doesn't matter what you are, you know? It's what you do that matters in life.

So, I don't care if you're gray. I don't care if you're lesbian. I don't care if you're Native American. I don't care.

BECKEL: Well, good for you. I think that's a good way to end that segment.

"One More Thing" is up next.


GUTFELD: Time for "One More Thing".

I'll go first. Catch me tomorrow night. I'll be hosting "O'Reilly".  That's 8:00 p.m. Eastern.

PERINO: Me, too.

GUTFELD: You're going to be on there, right?


GUTFELD: Fun. There went that.

BOLLING: That was amazing.


All right. Who's next I forgot? Dana.

PERINO: I love this one more thing. Believe it or not, the U.S. Postal Service has decided to destroy all of the just moved stamps they just did a whole press run on because of concerns from the president's council on fitness, sports, nutrition over alleged unsafe acts depicted on three stamps. They all got to go. The three unsafe things -- canyon ball dive, skateboarding without knee pads and a head stand without a helmet.

Also, included in this was walking and jogging, balancing, stretching. So, there's your tax at work.

TANTAROS: Very dangerous.

BOLLING: Who's up?


BECKEL: OK, I want to introduce you to my very best friend, a guy I really feel tight with. He and I don't share the same political philosophy. But I want to say right now that without him, without Teddy, this would not have been a successful time for my party.

Teddy, I want to congratulate you and the Tea Party for everything you've done to drive the Republican Party off the rails. And I want say, unconditionally, unequivocally, I support you for the Republican nomination for president in 2016. All I can say is Teddy, Teddy, Teddy. There you go.

BOLLING: Finally, we agree on something.

All right. Very quickly, remember this guy. He's known as patient zero on ObamaCare. As soon as Obamacare opened up, he was allegedly the first patient. So, he tweeted this. Chad Henderson. Go.

He say, enrolled in Obamacare just now, looking forward to having affordable health care for the first time, blah, blah, blah, et cetera.

It turns out Chad Henderson worked for President Obama. He worked for OFA.  He paid he was a donor to OFA.

And Kathleen Sebelius and the White House retweeted this guy and they made a big thing for it. It was all B.S.

PERINO: Gross! And do you remember when they made the videos at the Department of Education during the Bush administration? Everybody went berserk. The media just didn't even bat an eye.

TANTAROS: They're a bunch of liars. Can we just say that? They're liars!

OK. There's somebody in Indiana missing a $1 million lottery ticket.  That's right. Someone had it and didn't claim it. One million bucks goes back into the pot. They missed the 180-day window. That's not as bad as the person that missed the $50 million ticket.

To someone out there, what a bummer.

BECKEL: Somebody has the ticket and didn't collect it?

TANTAROS: That was the old ticket. This is a $1 million --

GUTFELD: All right. Programming note -- Megyn Kelly is stopping by "The Five" tomorrow. So, be sure to catch the show.

That's it for us on "The Five." Thanks for watching. See you tomorrow.

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