This is a rush transcript from "The Ingraham Angle," February 13, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
LAURA INGRAHAM: All right, I'm Laura Ingraham, this is 'The Ingraham Angle.' There is so much stuff happening tonight. Oh my goodness. We have a cover from every angle, and I didn't want to miss a moment. Phenomenal guest, of course, Andy McCarthy is going to explain why Senate investigators are calling an e-mail from Susan Rice -- Susan Benghazi Rice, get it right, disturbing. And Joy Behar and the gals at "The View" are hitting the Vice President for his faith. So, he is a former White House employee. We are going to discuss it all with Monica Crowley.
Also, what's the real message behind the Obama's bizarre official portrait? But first, illegal immigration and the jobs that we won't or can't do. That's the focus of tonight's angle.
A big immigration debate is under way on Capitol Hill. Mitch McConnell is saying that we only have one week to do the whole thing for the Dreamers. And I'm telling you, watching this thing, the same old open borders suspects are it again.
Front and center is Senator Dick Durbin. He took to the Senate floor yesterday to repeat that tedious trope that you Americans are just too lazy or unwilling to do the jobs that only illegal immigrants will do.
RICHARD DURBIN, UNITED STATES SENATOR, ILLINOIS: Go to the local meat processing plant or the chicken processing plant and watch what comes out of that plant at quitting time -- Hispanics and Africans taking what are pretty tough, dirty, rough jobs because others don't want them. Not many of us say to our sons and daughters, 'I'm hoping they will come when you decide to go and pick fruit for a living.' Hardly ever hear that because we know it's hard backbreaking work and immigrants do the work.
INGRAHAM: Now, that is so offensive on so many levels. We could spend an hour debunking it and analyzing it. Just from my own personal experience, my brothers, my mother and I did all of these jobs. We did manual labor, fruit picking, paper routes, lawn work, cutting lawns, raking lawns, restaurant work. My mother waited tables into her early 70s.
And if she were alive, I think about her a lot, I think she would probably show up at Durbin's office to throw one of her old polyester uniforms at him. She would be so mad. I'll tell you what's really going on in this whole debate.
The Democrats don't really care all that much about these illegal workers, as much as they care about getting their power back. Now, what do I mean? We know a lot of middle-class voters are fed up with the Democrats.
So, the party has to begin to remake the electorate. But Durbin's statement ignores the fact that the inflow of all this cheap immigrant labor hurts Americans who actually will do those jobs that Durbin turns his nose up at. Here is my radio callers reacted to his comments today.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was in a position where I desperately needed a job and I went around to these locations that Dick said were only Hispanics like in the restaurants, for example, in the kitchen and I couldn't even get my foot in the door.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have got 38 years' experience in heavy demolition and I've got turned down for three jobs because I don't speak Spanish.
INGRAHAM: Now, for a fair wage, Americans will do and have done these jobs, Senator Durbin. So, stop lying to us. Preserving entry-level work opportunities for Americans is important for young people. It is also really important for those who don't have a college degree, may be for those who don't have a special skill set developed.
And I think it's really interesting to look back, to see how the Democrats have shifted on the immigration issue. I remember the time when Democrats actually supported the working men and women of the country and they even worried about flooding the nation with poor people from other countries who are going to compete with poor people already in our country who are American citizens or legal immigrants.
Twenty-five years ago, this was Dianne Feinstein.
DIANNE FEINSTEIN, SENATOR, CALIFORNIA: Mexico does nothing to enforce its borders. It is my view that if we are going to have a North American Free Trade Agreement, that Mexico must do its share because the day when America could be the welfare system or Mexico is gone. You have to concentrate on saying, the people who should be here are those who come legally at this time.
INGRAHAM: What happened to that Dianne Feinstein? Let's talk about Jeff Sessions a couple of years ago when he was in the Senate. Imagine if a Republican made that comment about the welfare states today. There would be howls for the lame stream media and from Democrats, how can you say that? That was Feinstein. Amazing.
And this was Bernie Sanders 11 years ago who spoke out and voted against George w. Bush's push for amnesty.
BERNIE SANDERS, SENATOR, VERMONT: I think it's high time that the Senate of the United States of America began to stand up for the American worker and I would hope that before an immigration bill is passed that it will respect the rights of American workers both low-wage workers and both professional workers.
INGRAHAM: Look, Sanders was right. Where is the congressional concern for the human dignity of America's low-skilled workers today? And they call them the working poor, middle class, lower middle-class people. If people could support families on these jobs, and they could live decent lives. Look, in certain limited circumstances, in particular industries, guest workers do make sense. But it shouldn't become the norm. It certainly doesn't have to be.
And I was thinking about this as well. I would be nice if just once in a blue moon, we heard someone like a Senator Durbin or probably anyone, speak in such emotional terms on the Senate floor about the innocent Americans who lost their jobs or their lives at the hands of illegal immigrants.
Case and point -- on Sunday, an illegal immigrant, Jose Duran Romero slammed into an ambulance carrying a mother and her three-year-old boy in Winston-Salem, North Carolina. His blood level -- alcohol blood level was double the legal limit. He injured the mother and the driver and the little boy is dead. How many innocent lives have to be lost before the US. Congress focuses on the well-being of American citizens and legal immigrants rather than kowtowing to LaRosa and the business lobby? We are all waiting.
This is another good thing, Dick Durbin of course has the luxury of having a job that can't be taken by an illegal immigrant. At least not yet, maybe he needs a little taste of his own medicine there. He can compete with illegal labor, to even stay in the Senate. But whatever Congress's final deal on immigration includes -- if it ends up being a deal at all, the needs of the American people, the American worker should always be priority number one, and that's the angle.
Joining us now with reaction as Heather McDonald, a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute, who has written extensively on these issues. Along with Austan Goolsbee the former chairman of the Council of Economic Advisors under President Obama. It's great to see both of you. All right, Austin, have at it. My concern about what Durbin said is that, I think it's really condescending, and it's also -- it's almost stereotyping an entire group of people. Okay, you poor people who come from Mexico, you're going to go to the chicken processing plant as all the other Americans who are, you know, pick up the jobs where they can. I found that to be stunning actually.
AUSTAN GOOLSBEE, FORMER CHAIRMAN, COUNCIL OF ECONOMIC ADVISORS UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA: Yes, look, I'm not a fan of that argument. I think the part of what Senator Durbin said that I agree with, I think most American parents want their kids to get high-wage jobs. I am not a fan of the argument that goes we ought to purposefully create a kind of an underclass of the workforce that are things that we don't want to do, that's kind of the Saudi Arabia argument. That's what happened in Saudi Arabia.
Now that said, I think there is still a case to be made that in the words of Abraham Lincoln, the immigrants are the replenishing stream for the native population and if you look at our native population growth, it's not that high. I think I agree with her principle, that let's ask what is good for the American nation and so, I think when you look at immigrants, the first thing you should ask is, are these people who want to become Americans? Do they buy into the American way?
And if so, I feel a lot more leniency let's call it, to try to incorporate them into the economy than if it's just a permanent guest worker under class.
INGRAHAM: Heather, what Durbin typically does is he conflates legal with illegal immigration which is an old trick of the open borders crowd. He did that in many of his comments yesterday and he did that again today when he praised an Olympic athlete whose parents are South Korean immigrants -- an American, let's watch.
DURBIN: Let's remember, Chloe Kim's story is the story of immigration in America. Chloe Kim's story is a story of people who have come to these shores determined to make a life. They don't bring wealth. Many of them don't even bring proficiency in English. They certainly in many cases don't bring advanced degrees. They only come here with a determination to make a better life for themselves and a better country for all of us.
INGRAHAM: Well, Heather, nobody disagrees with that. I mean, again, we are talking about illegal immigration and the comments that he made about jobs that Americans won't do. Jobs that Americans have always done, but not for slave wages. Your reaction?
HEATHER MCDONALD, SENIOR FELLOW, MANHATTAN INSTITUTE: Well, they are still doing them, Laura. That's the irony. In fact, there's about 472 different occupations in this country. Aliens make up the majority in only six of those occupations. You can go to cities who have not had a flood of mass low-skilled immigration, and find Americans working the in the jobs that Dick Durbin says nobody will take.
Americans are 63 percent of all meat processors. They work as hotel aides. This is an incredibly condescending attitude both toward Americans and toward work. I think what parents would say to their children is, "You get a job, any job. All jobs are meaningful and you work your way up." And this idea that somehow, Americans are spent and you know, worthless and lazy and that we need the new blood of immigrants. Of course, if people are coming here to become Americans, they are driven by the dream of freedom and they bring skills to this country, yes, let's bring them but on the other hand, we have to be realistic about the economic consequences of mass low-skilled immigration and it hurts above all people of color -- legal Americans, native born Americans and legal Hispanics, blacks and Hispanics that are finding their wages cut out from under them.
And the mass low-skilled immigration both legal and illegal is imposing massive social costs on taxpayer Americans in the form of schools and the criminal justice system.
INGRAHAM: Austin, what was your reaction to -- I did like an hour and a half on this on radio today because we kept getting inundated with calls from Americans from Wisconsin to Texas, all over the country who when they heard Dick Durbin, they took it as a personal insult to them. And I know you don't agree with everything he said, but I think it's important because that is an argument that is made time and again by those who believe we need to bring in a mass number of people and amnesty people who are here illegally.
Look, they try to get jobs in like the hotel industry or they try to get jobs and they literally can't get the jobs because once an illegal immigrant gets into that middle management position, they only hire other illegal immigrants.
GOOLSBY: Now, here is where I was following the Ms. McDonald and your argument as it was going along, but there I think the data kind of don't back that up. If you look at the states where there are the highest levels of immigration both legal and illegal, the wages of natives of the native- born population are actually substantially higher than states where there is not that much immigration. If you look at immigrants, they start businesses at higher rates than do native born people.
INGRAHAM: Now, legal immigrants, not illegal. Legal immigrants, not illegal.
GOOLSBY: Legal and illegal. Legal and illegal.
INGRAHAM: Okay, 'The Washington Post' did this big study that came out two years or three years ago, it was a Pew Study. And Heather, I know you and I talked about this on radio. I don't mean to cut you off, Austin, but in the study, it demonstrated -- this is Pew research, huge study. The illegal immigrants take jobs in various areas. It's farming, fishing, 26 percent. Building and grounds, 17 percent. Construction and mining, 14 percent. Grounds keeping, almost a quarter of all grounds keepers now, illegal immigrants. Domestic work, 23 percent. Clothing and manufacturing to the extent that there's that left in the country, 20 percent.
Heather, these are jobs that Americans did do and they are not doing it now because the wages are being undercut by a glut of people. It's not every town and every part of the country, but where those jobs are displaced, of course, the wages are not rising commensurate with how they are rising in other sectors, that was my point.
MCDONALD: Absolutely, and as you've been saying it's also a question of just cultural change. But I would like to respond to Austin's point. You can't look at wages as an aggregate. The National Academy of Science has studied, looked and found that there is a minimal increase in well-being for Americans as a whole by immigration. Most of the benefits go to the immigrants themselves, but when you look at the lowest wage Americans, the people that have high school education at the most, their wages are driven down by mass low-skilled immigration, legal or illegal and that's why it's so important not just to end the flow of illegal immigration but to change our immigration flow overall.
INGRAHAM: Well, we'll see. Prediction from both of you, is there going to be an immigration deal at the end of the week? Yes or no. Austin?
GOOLSBY: No, I don't think so.
MCDONALD: I agree with Austin on that.
INGRAHAM: All right, we all agree. There is not going to be a deal. Appreciate it guys. And by the way, if you don't think there's a war on Christianity, you laughed at that prospect, you haven't been watching television. Stick around, you have got to hear what Joy Behar said today on 'The View.'
INGRAHAM: Oh Joy Behar, she hit a new low today. Haven't we said that before a few times? Well, she is attacking the Christian faith of Vice President Mike Pence. Well, why not? It's so easy to do especially right as we are getting into Lent. Just listen to these comments today on "The View."
JOY BEHAR, TALKSHOW HOST, THE VIEW: It's one thing to talk to Jesus; it's another thing when Jesus talks to you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Exactly.
BEHAR: It's called mental illness if I'm not correct. You're hearing voices.
INGRAHAM: I'll tell you one voice I wish I never had to hear again. Let's get a true view from Monica Crowley of the London Center for Policy Research in New York and from Madison, Wisconsin, of course Madison, Wisconsin, Dan Barker the co-president of the Freedom from Religion Foundation. It's great to see both of you.
Let's talk about this Joy Behar deal. I always like to say, why do they not ever try this stuff on Muslims? I mean, it's always like the Christian conservative guy or gal who gets hit with this stuff. Occasionally, the Catholics get it across the face too, but they never really do this with the Muslims. They always focus on the Christians, Dan.
DAN BARKER, CO-PRESIDENT, FREEDOM FROM RELIGION FOUNDATION: I do it with Muslims. I've debated eight or nine Muslim scholars and I have said the very same thing, the belief in their Allah is just as delusional as the Christian belief in Yahweh, and so it's not just Christians, it's anybody who has a delusional idea that the dictator of the cosmos is talking to them. That's dangerous.
MONICA CROWLEY, LONDON CENTER FOR POLICY RESEARCH: Laura, whose voice would you rather hear on a regular basis? Joy Behar's or Jesus's? I'll take Jesus any day.
Look, the truth is that if the Vice President were a Muslim and he came out publicly and said he regularly converses with Allah, Joy Behar would be celebrating that point. The left is constantly positioning themselves as champions of diversity and tolerance. They respect everyone's beliefs unless you are conservative and/or a Christian, in which case you have the wrong beliefs and you are to be mocked and roundly dismissed.
The only extremist here is Joy Behar and the rest of the crew on 'The View' that took the opportunity to take cheap shots at the Vice President and by the way, his personal relationship with Jesus which is the essence with Christianity.
INGRAHAM: Hey, Dan, I was always wondering of the Freedom From Religion Foundation, do you guys meet or is it just you? Do you guys have meetings? What do you do in meetings? Conferences?
BARKER: Sure, we have national meetings. Our next conference will be in San Francisco, of course in November.
INGRAHAM: Oh, that's a shock. Moving on to Boulder after San Francisco and then we are going to Austin, Texas, and then we're going to finish up in Cambridge. Then we'll have the final meeting in Washington, D.C. Yes, look, I doing to you is not fair, Dan because you're so fun especially around the Christian holidays, so you're such a fun person. I do not want to ridicule you. I'm really glad you're on the show, but I want to play for both of you what the gals on 'The View' were discussing about Omarosa, the former White House Aide said last night on Celebrity Big Brother, watch.
OMAROSE ONEE MANIGAULT-NEWMAN FORMER POLITICAL AIDE: We would be begging for Trump to come back if Pence became president. That's all I am saying.
He's extreme. I'm Christian. I love Jesus, but he thinks Jesus tells him to say things. I'm like Jesus didn't say that. It's scary.
INGRAHAM: Even the other contestants on the Celebrity, whatever that is. What is that? Big Brother? I didn't even know that was still on. Monica, poor Omorosa, I mean, I think she's just -- she's become her own character in her own continuing reality show, but even the other people didn't seem to buy what she is saying.
MCDONALD: Yes, I mean, the national discussion, the parameters of which should never be defined by Omarosa. I want to make a bigger point here, Laura, which is you know, the sickness of the left is that they think that they are god and this was something that was done to great effect by the communists who banned God, made it illegal to worship in any way, and elevated the state to replace god.
And the American Democrats have adopted so much of that, where the state is them and they think that they are in a position of omnipotence and therefore God is irrelevant and anybody who believes in Jesus or God is a fool to be targeted and mocked, but again, it's only Christianity that you see. Sometimes, with Judaism, but primarily Christianity. They look at that as a tool of the weak, to be mocked and dismissed and it is gross and disgusting and should be rejected in all of its forms.
INGRAHAM: Hey, Dan, when Obama was over there with Rick Warren at his church in California, when Hillary spoke at various churches during her campaign, even Al Gore I believe appeared at a church, were you -- you know, did that keep you up at night? Were you really worried about that? Or I don't remember you speaking out when Obama was doing that kind of stuff.
BARKER: Well, we did. We complained about religion mixing with our secular government in any way, and of course, Omarosa's point was strong. Omarosa is a Christian. It's a Christian criticizing other Christian.
When I was a Christian evangelical minister, I used to think God was talking to me until I realized, well, everybody thinks God is talking to them and nobody agrees with each other. It's really dangerous for one person, especially a secular governmental leader to think that he is getting direction from something that we cannot confirm. He can have his views if he wants to, pray to Jesus or Mother Goose or Allah or whatever, that's America.
INGRAHAM: So, Dan, just so I am clear, you must be really offended by most of George Washington's seminal speeches to the country and to his troops, correct?
BARKER: We are not offended by personal views. I am not offended. I think Mike Pence has (inaudible) like I did.
INGRAHAM: He summoned the Almighty. No, no. Washington summoned the Almighty both for inspiration and protection of our troops and our nascent republic. So, that was -- so does that bother you?
BARKER: But Laura -- but you do know, Laura. Well, George Washington was not the kind of Christian at the Evangelical right would embrace today, but you do know that.
INGRAHAM: Oh yes, you can go back in your special time travel machine and figure that out, Dan? Come on.
BARKER: Yes, we do know that. Yes, we do know that, Laura.
INGRAHAM: You do know that. You do know what George Washington believed, okay.
BARKER: We do. He did not take communion.
INGRAHAM: I can bet on George Washington having a lot more respect for Mike Pence than hanging out with a bunch of atheists who complain every Easter and Christmas and Lent that they are offended by them.
BARKER: Laura, you're exaggerating here.
INGRAHAM: No, I am not exaggerating.
BARKER: Laura, you know you are exaggerating.
INGRAHAM: No, you know what, you know, Danny, I am not exaggerating because your idea of bravery is putting up a billboard insulting Christians, that's your idea of a brave statement. We support you. We will have you on your show, I am glad you have the right to speak out, but that's not courageous and brave. That's just being a pain in the backside because you know every time a Christian holiday comes along, you get invited on TV. That's your right to do it but is not brave and it's not courageous. And we will pray for you regardless of what you believe.
BARKER: You invited me, Laura. You know my views and you invited me. You do know Laura tens and millions of good Americans do not believe in any God.
INGRAHAM: Absolutely, I never said otherwise. We are talking about someone who goes on TV and mocks someone for his faith. You go on television and you mock someone for their sexual preference and you will never work again. You go on TV and you mock someone for their faith and you get the applause and the love of the elites and maybe some groups like yours.
But we are out of time, guys. Great segment as always, and we will have you back. We'll have to have you on radio. It would be fantastic.
And from a war on faith to one in cyberspace, potentially, wow, a massive cyberattack could soon stop life as we know in the United States? That's what some are warning. Is the USA ready for it? This could be some type of silent Armageddon -- the experts are saying. Alarming details from top officials in Washington today. We will talk about it up next.
And later, blockbuster from Andy McCarthy explaining the curious case of Michael Flynn's guilty plea to the FBI. New information on that and insights coming up.
LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: Just to put you in a really good mood tonight, the United States is facing attacks by Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, organized criminals, and terrorists. Their weapons are invisible but potentially devastating. Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats told senators today cyber security threats are coming from every direction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAN COATS, DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: Our adversaries as well as the other malign actors are using cyber and other instruments of power to shape societies and markets, international rules and institutions and international hotspots to their advantage. From U.S. businesses to the federal government, to state and local governments, the United States is threatened by cyberattacks every day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: Security expert Morgan Wright is here to address the big question. Is a devastating attack, not a question of if but when. Morgan, one of the great moments today I think came from Marco Rubio where he pointed to a country where I know you've been focusing on which is China. Let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARCO RUBIO, R-FLORIDA: The biggest issue of our time in my view and I think in the view of most members of this committee, and I would venture to guess most of the members of this panel, is China and the risk they pose. I'm not sure in the 240 some odd year history of this nation we've ever faced a competitor and potentially adversary of this scale, scope, and capacity. The tools they use are everything from hacking into companies and critical infrastructure and defense contractors, everybody you can imagine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: Of course we helped enrich them all these years with this massive trade deficit that now only really Trump is attacking. What do we do and what could happen?
MORGAN WRIGHT, CYBERSECURITY ANALYST: Look, with the Chinese it's got to be pure, just raw power. They are taking over the South China Sea. They are stealing our technology. Their latest announcement of their stealth fighter looks suspiciously like the B-29 Joseph Stalin stole from us in World War II and recreated.
So we've got to hit back hard at these guys. We've got to start cutting off access for our research institutes, our universities. By the way, Laura, I won't say which one it is, but I had a chance to speak with a former chief of station at the CIA, teaches at a college, they will not let any of the Chinese into their national security program because they're there to collect information on who the graduates are so they can later figure out when they get posted who the people are that are getting intelligence training and going into the intelligence community.
INGRAHAM: They are setting up centers, Confucian centers, and we saw this happening starting 20 years ago. Teaching Mandarin, let's do dual learning in Mandarin and English, it's great. We'll do Chinese instruction. It's just a global economy. It's all wonderful. Tom Friedman will be happy. But they are doing it as part of a global plan. They want hegemony not just in the South China Sea but all around the world. What does this mean if China decides one day to flip the switch on the United States? What does that mean?
WRIGHT: They have 1.2 billion people. They have got a very advanced cyberthreat capability. They are used to the thousand grains of sands. They will collect information over and over. Then at a time and place of their choosing, they will do to us what we are not willing to do to them, which is to take out the power grid, to attack our infrastructure.
INGRAHAM: What happens? How many days does it take before society begins to deteriorate, if you can't get your money, gasoline, food can't be delivered because it's all computerized now?
WRIGHT: Add to that money. If you take out ATMs, people can't get to cash, then what we started seeing is very quickly, like what happened in Ukraine when Russia started attacking them, started taking out their power and stuff. You will see it devolve very quickly because we do not have the civilian police force. Being a former cop, I can tell there are only a million cops in the United States of 340 million people. If people decide to start getting out of hand and rioting, we saw it in Baltimore, we saw it in Ferguson, we saw it in other places, they is simply not enough civilian police force to be able to manage these things. So God forbid, you take out Facebook and Twitter --
INGRAHAM: People freak out at hotels, oh, they don't have WiFi, WiFi is down. It's like they never lived, they can't survive without that. But we're talking basic necessities.
WRIGHT: You're talking about hospitalization, you're talking about critical surfaces, you're talking about our critical infrastructure, our critical infrastructure is probably the most porous thing we have out there. We are such an open society, and the fact that we are allowing foreign nationals to be not just in certain sensitive areas like our universities which are open by nature but in our critical infrastructure, we lose so much intellectual property that is designed to defend us every year to the Chinese and the Russians.
INGRAHAM: This is eye-opening. We also have the Chinese birth tourism which we are going to get into later in this week in this country, which also has to stop. Morgan, thank you so much, great, great segment.
And have you seen, I know Morgan has, the official new portraits of the Obamas? They tell us more about the couple than you might think, and the artist. What were the artists thinking? We're going to get into it next.
INGRAHAM: I'll explain the beads later. The official Obama portraits unveiled at the Smithsonian are more than just a radical break from tradition. Critics say they are just plain radical, and so are the artists who painted the Obamas official portrait. Kehinde Wiley who painted the former president felt a special kinship with his subject.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEHINDE WILEY, ARTISTS: When you look at this painting, there's, sure, an amazingly handsome man, but I was also inspired by Barack Obama's personal story. That sense in which he and I both do have that echo of single parents, African fathers, that search for the father, that sense of twinning. There is kind of like this echo of he and I in that narrative.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: It's of 'him and me,' but who cares about grammar at this point. It's late at night. Here to discuss are Fox News contributor Raymond Arroyo and Philippe Reines who is the former State Department senior advisor to Hillary Clinton. And I'm wearing Mardi Gras beads because Lent is an hour and 15 minutes and I'm going to have fun for the rest of the day. Until then I'm going to have fun.
Philippe, I always do that, tell me about the portraits and what they represent. They are interesting, that's for sure. They are conversation starters.
PHILIPPE REINES, FORMER HILLARY CLINTON ADVISER: I was told there would be no math or art when I came in.
INGRAHAM: That's All right, we're going to make you do 50 push-ups.
REINES: So you've got to go easy on me. I didn't know anything about the artist or his background, and I did some research. Now I have flashbacks of college art history.
INGRAHAM: I never took it, so you can educate me.
REINES: And I got a C. I guess it's a Biblical, it's a scene of Judith, and please let me get this right, hollow furnace --
RAYMOND ARROYO, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: He's done that in the past. He put black subjects in historical settings, classic western art pieces. And various artists have changed the people, they have represented people differently. But he has black women decapitating white women.
INGRAHAM: What is that? That's like Kathy Griffin-esque.
ARROYO: He says it's his take on the kill whitey thing, which I don't know why --
INGRAHAM: How is that a positive image for the portrait gallery? He could have picked anybody? The guy is interesting. He's kind of out there. I kind of like that, a lot of boring stuff happening, he's kind of cool. I like his jacket. But that's a little --
REINES: Definitely not boring. But I think the more important thing is the depiction of President Obama. And I do think it does get into a larger issue of race in that he was the first black president of that triggered a lot of change and discomfort and it manifested itself in different ways including the birther movement and others. And I think we are seeing a little bit of that now, too. I think, if I'm not mistaken, Sean Hannity had tweeted something about there being sperm embedded, I don't know if I can say that.
ARROYO: Let's talk about the picture itself.
REINES: People are seeing things that are not there.
ARROYO: And art by its nature asks questions and answers them. This is my background, I was in the theater.
REINES: This isn't fair.
ARROYO: This is the one thing I'm qualified to talk about. But when I look at that and you see the president in that kind of Vulcan mean standing in front of that shrubbery of poison ivy that is overtaking him, it is an odd picture. What is that artist trying to convey? It really doesn't look like the president that we know him. There is none of the joyous Obama hope and change. He's very glum.
REINES: He's a cool customer.
ARROYO: Leonard Nimoy in repose.
INGRAHAM: Honestly, my take about this is it has nothing to do -- I don't care about politics in this. It's a goofy painting. I'm sorry, everyone is watching this. It doesn't matter if you love Obama or don't like him, Obama is a handsome man. I think that makes him look like the little shop of horrors, like feed me. But you know that movie in the Cineplex and that guy sitting in the signs all come over him, I thought it was odd.
ARROYO: Presidential paintings --
REINES: It's all relative.
INGRAHAM: You do not like it, and I don't believe --
REINES: No, no. It's all relative.
INGRAHAM: Hers doesn't even look like her.
ARROYO: That face is out of proportion.
INGRAHAM: I don't think she looked happy. Do you think Michelle Obama looked happy about it? Had she seen this before?
ARROYO: I think she had. She's clapping and trying to be happy. Barack Obama stood before it and looked at it as if he is looking at something from another planet. It is odd. Michelle's hands are too large. The dress is like a mountain.
INGRAHAM: But she is really pretty, and I thought it makes her look not -- they are both handsome, attractive couple. And I don't think either of them look like themselves.
REINES: I think you're going to think what you think of each of them tomorrow the same way you did yesterday. And this is a fun distraction.
ARROYO: Historical markers are remembered. No one ever gets these portraits right. Leon Panetta, the former secretary of defense, when he had his ceremonial portrait hung, he commanded that his dog Bravo was in the portrait.
ARROYO: They're saying this is the first black artist to paint a president. That's not true. Simmie Knox painted a rather attractive photo of Bill Clinton in 2004. He is the first black portrait artist.
REINES: You know what the scandal was with that? He wasn't wearing his wedding ring. Do you know why? He took it off. Knox took the liberty of taking it off. We had to spend a week with The New York Post showing photos of him posing wearing his wedding ring.
ARROYO: You're making my point that art asks questions and the artist answers them, just like the other painting --
REINES: The question is why did you take off?
ARROYO: They questioned his fidelity. Art tells things, that's what it's about.
INGRAHAM: I'm still trying to get over he said we are twinning. When did that become a verb? Has that always been a verb, twinning?
ARROYO: That was a very odd moment. The whole thing --
INGRAHAM: We're twinning. What? What does that mean?
REINES: Can't we talk about Russia or something?
INGRAHAM: No, we're not going to talk about that. We'll talk about Porter, what did they know and when did they know it?
ARROYO: Long after the Russia investigation is over we will still be staring at these portraits.
REINES: Any Clinton scandal you want to talk about?
INGRAHAM: All right, guys, that was fun. By the way, he was going to put him with a scepter and on a horse and then he was going to put them with the jaguars.
ARROYO: That's his schtick. He puts -- I hope your portrait is with the Mardi Gras --
INGRAHAM: The Mardi Gras beads.
ARROYO: I hope you're in ermine with a crown.
INGRAHAM: You got it, no problem.
As the media scrutinizes the Trump White House, this is a big story, Philippe wants this, they ignore another flashing sign that the Obama administration was up to no good. Is that happening? Andy McCarthy is going to be here to explain the latest revelation about Susan Rice, why it's significant, next.
INGRAHAM: It's getting good. Senate Judiciary Committee members are pressing Susan Rice to explain by next week a newly revealed email.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM, R-SOUTH CAROLINA: She is sending herself an email talking about her conversation on January the fifth with a president, reassuring herself and I guess the president that this would be done by the book. I think that's odd and disturbing because we know that the investigation regarding the Trump campaign was anything but by the book.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: And the email also indicates the Obama administration may have withheld information on the Russia probe from the Trump team. Meanwhile there is new information on Michael Flynn's guilty plea. Who better to explain it all than former federal prosecutor Andy McCarthy who joins us from New York.
Andy, I have been dying to talk to you. But let's first hit Susan Rice, because it seems like she is back. She was there to save them on Benghazi, went out and lie about the deal, what caused the attack in Benghazi. And now she is back again with what certainly looks like a CYA email to herself.
ANDY MCCARTHY, FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY: The question is which A was she C-ing, it appears. And there are two interesting things about it. One is this by the book stuff, which you would think at the very tail end of the administration that always did it by the book it wouldn't be necessary to tell people that things needed to be done by the book, particularly when Senator Graham points out this thing was anything but done by the book unless the book is rules for radicals. They didn't identify the book.
But the other interesting thing that you point to is this holding out, delaying the groundwork to hold out information. So President Obama wants to know over the next couple of weeks if there is any reason why we can't share with the incoming team. And you have to think about what was going on then. They were investigating Flynn at that time, and he is going to be Susan Rice's successor who you think she would be cooperating with and would be sharing information with. And yet they were regarding him as a criminal suspect. They were thinking about doing a Logan Act prosecution on him, which is absurd. They ultimately had the FBI go speak to him and ended up prosecuting him for false statements. So I wonder if they are laying the groundwork to not let him in on things because they are regarding him as a suspect rather than a successor.
INGRAHAM: A friend of mine today reminded me of when we were in the Reagan administration, and he was in there in the last few days, that usually in the last few days you're not still sending emails. I don't know what time that email dropped, I don't know, was it before 12:00 noon -- what was the timing of that?
MCCARTHY: They say 12:15, Laura, which is when should have been clearing out her office.
INGRAHAM: No, she was out. No, 12:15 she is gone. This is a Trump land after 12:00, right?
MCCARTHY: Right, but she's still using government email, and I think she still had her security clearance. But I think she is creating a government document on purpose. And we know that's not always the usual thing in the Obama administration. Often they try to not create government documents when they were doing government work. But she clearly was making a paper trail here.
INGRAHAM: Andy, I also want to ask you quickly about this deal with Rob Porter and this whole thing with his ex-wives and accused of abuse, and the timeline that looks like it might be different from what the administration initially said given what the FBI director said today. What's going on with these security clearances and individuals who are still working in the White House without security clearances -- is that normal?
MCCARTHY: It's not normal for people to be working for an extended period of time at the White House without a full, permanent security clearance. And it looks like what happened here, it looks like the nub of the problem right now is the White House evidently said the FBI investigation was continuing as of recenlty. And in fact it looks like according to what Director Wray says they had wrapped that up last year.
INGRAHAM: Oh, my goodness. Andy, we'll keep on this with you. Great insights as always.
And we have a lot more to get to, be right back.
INGRAHAM: Great news, Shaun White claimed his third gold medal in Olympic men's half pipe. White is the first American male to win gold at three separate Winter Olympics, Team USA, go for it. That is so awesome.
That's all the time we have tonight. Lent begins in 59, 60 minutes. Mardi Gras is officially over.
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