Ambassador: Trump's visit is more about celebrating Britain's relations with the US than politics

This is a rush transcript from "The Story," May 31, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, HOST: Yes, absolutely. Thank you very much, Bret. We are on top of this story, working on guests on the scene there so that we can bring you the latest developments in this story from Virginia Beach, where 11 people lost their lives in a Virginia Beach municipal building this evening.

We understand that the shooter is dead. We are working on people on the scene and we're going to bring you more on this as we go forward today because this is a very sad story and a very developing story this evening, we got to figure out exactly what happened here.

There are some reports that it was a person who worked there. People came out saying --you know, shaking their heads and tears. Saying that they -- you know, saw people around them that they knew, that they had worked to with for years and years. So, we're going to continue obviously to cover this story and bring you the very latest as we get it in just a moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KASICH, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: This idea of using trade as a -- as a political weapon is not the right thing to do.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is not going to play well to the president's base. In the very Rust Belt States.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This policy of -- toward Mexico is incredibly stupid.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Everybody up in arms as you can see. President Trump's tariffs on Mexico got some reaction there. And also in the markets today, which were down on the idea. But is something else also happening that may lead to the ultimate desired effect? That's what all of these bilateral discussions are about in all of these tariff arrangements.

So, here is what happened, exactly three hours after the president announced a five percent initial tariff hike on the country of Mexico, suddenly the Mexicans came to the desk -- to the table, said they wanted to talk.

The Mexican government, they sent a letter to the president that said we're on our way, we're coming to Washington right away. And that is where this story begins tonight. Good evening, everybody. I'm Martha MacCallum.

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and Jared Kushner, speaking to the Mexican foreign minister just a short time ago before he boarded a plane for Washington, D.C. We do not know how all of this will play out. It will not be done shortly, I can guarantee you that. But the Mexican president just said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDRES MANUEL LOPEZ OBRADOR, PRESIDENT OF MEXICO (through translator): The use of coercive measures does not lead to anything good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: So, we will see, right? We've seen this whole thing before. This is the way the president does things. It's a shake things up process to get the ball rolling, to throw the chessboard up in the air so to speak, and to see if a little bit of push ultimately gets a more favorable deal for the United States which the president has said many times he believes is not on the right end of this deal with Mexico trade.

David Spunt, live at the White House tonight with what is happening there right now. Good evening, David.

DAVID SPUNT, CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Martha, good evening. Mexican officials were not kidding when they said right away in that letter. That Mexican foreign official on his way right now. That foreign envoy to go ahead and try to speak with some officials here at the White House. We're told that he will be landing in Washington at some point this evening, presumably going to the embassy.

The thing is most of those officials that he would normally meet with, out of town. President Trump's going to meet with Queen Elizabeth in London on Sunday, in just a few days. But Mexican officials are trying to get that meeting as soon as possible to persuade the president to change its thinking.

I want to go to a tweet from President Trump just a few hours ago, about six hours ago. "Mexico has taken advantage of the United States for decades. Because of the Dems, our immigration laws are bad. Mexico makes a fortune from the U.S. have for decades, they can easily fix this problem. Time for them to finally do what must be done."

Martha, those tariffs go up from five percent on June 10th to 25 percent by October 1st. Quite a big difference there. President Trump, says Mexico must take responsibility for the illegal immigrants coming into the United States and pay they will until they help stop those border problems.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARAH SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We can't continue down the path that we're on. We can't continue to operate as a sovereign country with no borders and without enforcement of our law. And Mexico needs to enforce their southern border as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SPUNT: Mexico's president hit back and says communication is key.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBRADOR: All conflicts and bilateral relations must be faced and resolved through dialogue, through communication.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SPUNT: Now, the White House is hearing some pushback on Capitol Hill from Republicans upset about this plan. Those who normally vote with President Trump, Senators Chuck Grassley, Joni Ernst, and Pat Toomey. All have come out against the president's plan. The Chamber of Commerce, Martha, also coming out against President Trump's plan.

But Mexicans, they want to go ahead, meet with the administration. Hopefully, they say communication is the key. And unlike the China situation which we saw unfold a few weeks ago, Mexico says that they will not retaliate. The president says he will not retaliate. The Mexican foreign minister, just about an hour ago tweeted out that he will be meeting with Secretary of State Mike Pompeo on Wednesday.

A White House official told me there are no meetings scheduled for this weekend. Martha.

MACCALLUM: All right, we'll see where it goes. David, thank you very much. Up next, Steve Hilton, host of "The Next Revolution". And Susan Lee, Fox Business Network correspondent. Great to see both of you today. You know, when this whole conversation started earlier today, I was watching Fox Business this morning and here is what one of the guests said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF SICA, PRESIDENT, SICA WEALTH MANAGEMENT: It needs to be done, it's one of those band-aids that needs to be pulled off. But what's going to happen is that you're going to start to see as we saw a little bit with the Consumer Sentiment number. The consumer is going to suffer because prices are going to go up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: So, Susan Lee, let me start with you. Is this something that needs to be done? Is there an imbalance that needs to be righted?

SUSAN LI, FOX BUSINESS NETWORK CORRESPONDENT: Well, I can tell you that the markets are on edge right now. It's exacerbating. A strain that stems from the U.S.-China relationship. So, as you saw with the Dow at a four- month low, six straight weeks of losses, Martha. That's a longest losing streak in eight years. And people are literally paying governments to hold their money.

That's how scared they are and this is something that we haven't seen since 2008. So, there are reverberations and there are signals, by the way, to our trading partners in China as well that even if you sign a deal, you might not adhere to it. So, I'm not sure that that's a great way to try to get this U.S.-China trade deal sign either.

MACCALLUM: So, the other choice though, Steve, is just to sort of let it go the way it's always gone. Right? I mean, that -- that's where we are right now.

STEVE HILTON, ANCHOR: That's right. I mean, we've got to remember, the reason for this is because there is a real and growing crisis at the southern border. Everyone agrees that now. Even the left, Congress which should be fixing that crisis is not doing it. Why? Because the Democrats answer to the crisis is just to let everyone in. And, of course, that's not going to fly.

So, my view is this is a creative and entrepreneurial piece of policymaking, and we might as well give it a shot. The arguments you hear against it don't really stack up, there's the argument about this is all going to end on in higher prices. Well, for the last year or so, we've had a lot of tariffs and the -- we have a measure of prices for consumers, it's called inflation. And actually, it's been pretty low.

Earnings, especially, for the lower group of American workers arising three times and more faster than prices are. Secondly, they say as John Kasich did there, you shouldn't muddle up trade policy with immigration policy. Why not? There's no real reason for that. It's just something they say. And then the third thing they say is well, this will jeopardize President Trump trying to get through his new NAFTA, the USMCA.

MACCALLUM: Right.

HILTON: That's not going to happen. Anyway, Nancy Pelosi is basically slow walking that. So, my view is let's give it a shot, be open-minded and see if it works.

MACCALLUM: Yes, you know, that -- that's so interesting because a lot of the criticism when this first came out was -- you know, you can't put those things together. Right? And that's what we have seen.

You know this is the first president of the United States that we've ever had whose background is as a businessman. I mean, there are others who have had businesses, you know, Harry Truman comes to mind, who's a haberdasher.

However, you know, this is like a real estate magnate, OK? So, he looks at the world differently, he said from the very beginning. And I think this is sort of part of the essential Trump doctrine. I am going to put together economic issues, and security issues, and all of it, because I don't see how you can really separate them, Steve.

HILTON: That's exactly right. And it's a perfect example of him doing exactly what he was elected to do, the conventional way of doing it. The classic diplomatic way that didn't work. Hasn't been working for years. And so, he was elected precisely because he was going to shake things up, be a disrupter, and do things differently. He's just following through on that.

And I think we should all give him a chance and see what the results, and judge him on the results. With China, exactly as you said, they're coming to the table now on things like intellectual property theft, precisely because of the tariffs.

MACCALLUM: Well, Susan, where do you think this goes? I mean -- I mean, can it turn out to be economically beneficial for the United States, or is it going to be a disaster as we heard at the beginning.

LI If he gets a deal. If he gets a deal because we're looking at -- in October, that's $900 billion worth of goods from China, from Mexico, that will be tariffed. And you know who eventually pays that tariff. I know the companies do, but they will pass on those costs to the U.S. consumer, which powers two-thirds of the U.S. economy. That might hit hurt the markets and that might hurt the U.S. economy.

MACCALLUM: But Susan, just let me jump in, I have 30 seconds left here.

LI: Yes.

MACCALLUM: It doesn't encourage companies to bring -- you know, manufacturing from China and Mexico back to the United States because that's part of the goal?

LI: But, it doesn't turn on a dime, unfortunately, Martha.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: No, of course, not.

LI: Because -- no, so, it takes time, there's a lag time, obviously. Yes, they will think about their capital expenditures and where they actually want to place those factories. But it's not going to turn in a few months' time. We might have to feel the pain for a year or so.

MACCALLUM: Yes. Well, that would be -- you know, something to think about whether or not it's beneficial.

Thank you, guys. Great to see you tonight.

HILTON: Thanks, Martha.

MACCALLUM: We're having a very, very tough story here that is unfolding in Virginia this evening. 11 people -- at least, 11 people have been killed in a mass shooting at a Virginia Beach municipal building. The suspect is dead. We're going to bring you more on this breaking news from the scene when we get back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: We are back with this breaking story this evening out of Virginia Beach. Police say that 11 people were killed in a municipal -- shooting at the municipal center there. Public records, permits, all of this kind of thing take place in this municipal building in Virginia Beach. This is a witness at the scene.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We heard shooting. We heard shooting. But we didn't think it was that close -- that close like in proximity of the building. So, I just thank God that they were able to alert us in time because if it had been 10 minutes more, we all would have been outside. So, that's what I'm grateful for today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Jeff Paul is live tonight in our West Coast newsroom with the breaking news looking into all of this. Good evening, Jeff.

JEFF PAUL, ANCHOR: Good evening, Martha. Yes, we can now confirm at least 11 dead, six others injured in this shooting. It happened in Virginia Beach in their Municipal Building just this afternoon. The police chief saying that the shooter was firing "indiscriminately at workers." Police then returned fire and they're telling us that the suspect is dead.

We don't know if that number 11 includes the death of the suspect but they're also saying that this person, the shooter is a longtime employee of the city's Public Works Department and that one of the people shot in the shooting was a police officer. They say that he was saved likely by his bullet-resistant vest.

We also got a statement from the governor in Virginia Ralph Northam and we're going to read that real quick. This is a tragic day for Virginia Beach and our entire Commonwealth. He said that on Twitter around 6:53 p.m. He goes on to say, my heart breaks for the victims of this devastating shooting, their families and all who love them. I am on my way to Virginia Beach now and I will be there within an hour.

The mayor in Virginia Beach calling it one of the city's most devastating days in their history. We'll have more updates on this as they come in. Martha?

MACCALLUM: Tragedy. Jeff Paul, thank you very much for the update. Coming up next, ahead, the truth behind an explosive allegation that was made by Michael Wolff who is a New York-based writer about my interview Brett Kavanaugh.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: Michael Wolff is a New York-based author who out with is second book on the Trump White House, and like the first one, it is getting raked over the coals for what some are calling loose standards when it comes to the facts. Here he is in an interview for the first book which made claims that were vehemently disputed by those directly involved.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So the people are questioning it, why not produce the evidence --

MICHAEL WOLFF, AUTHOR: Because that's not what -- I'm not -- I'm not in your business. My evidence is the book. Read the book. If it makes sense to you, if it strikes -- if it rings true, it is true.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: If it rings true, it is true. And now this pushback greeting book two. CNN writes that journalists should treat it with caution, while the Washington Post created a credibility table to track factors undercutting his assertions and wrote that Siege, that's the name of it, is ultimately crippled by three flaws. Wolff's over-reliance on a single character, factual errors that mar the author's credibility and sourcing that is so opaque that it renders the scoops highly suspicious and unreliable, they write.

Here he is suddenly unable to hear an anchors question when he was pressed on the accuracy of his reporting. That's what he calls it last year.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WOLFF: I'm not hearing anything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Wolff was hearing me before but he's not hearing me.

WOLFF: I'm not hearing anything.

WOLFF: It looks like the interview may be over.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That appears to be the audio coming through the earpiece on Mr. Wolff's end.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So he could hear me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Which would suggest that he could hear you loud and clear.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: We don't know what happened there. But anyway, he claims that he has ironclad sources and doesn't need to do what all reporters do which is to make a basic phone call, to check the stories because he says he doesn't do that kind of journalism. Here's what he says.

I'm talking about those calls where you absolutely know what the response is going to be. They put you in the position in which you are potentially having to negotiate what you know. In some curious way that's what much journalism is about. It's called a negotiated truth, he says.

Now, I know that his negotiated truth is actually just a lie in at least one case for sure because it involves a historic interview in which I was directly involved. The New York Times asked Wolff, here's their question. You also write in the book that Fox News provided questions ahead of time for its interview with Brett Kavanaugh during his Supreme Court nomination fight. Did you ask Fox for comment?

Wolff, no, but again it's a difference between an institutional reporter and a non-institutional reporter. I don't have to ask the silly questions. New York Times, are they silly if it's a matter of fact in the book? Wolff, yes, because can you imagine a circumstance under the sun in which Fox would come clean on that.

New York Times, but Siege went through a fact-checking period. Wolff, of course. And that did not include reaching out? Wolff, I actually don't believe if you know the answer it is necessary to go through the motions of getting an answer that you're absolutely certain of.

Really? Well, that is just great. Michael Wolff, you may not care to know the facts but I do. So here they are. I wrote my questions on a legal pad the old-fashioned way on my way to D.C. in a car. No one from the White House or for that matter from Fox weighed in on my interview at all, period.

This is a news show. We deal in facts. I have been doing this for 25 years and I have never given anyone my questions prior to an interview. That is THE STORY. That is not negotiated truth. So let's bring in Howie Kurtz. Howie, this is my question for you. How does he get away with this?

HOWARD KURTZ, MEDIA CRITIC: Well, in the first book he made a lot of sensational charges against Donald Trump that a lot of people wanted to believe were true. Now, in the case of your interview, look, anybody who was watching could see that you press Brett Kavanaugh aggressively, repeatedly on all the sexual harassment allegations that were public at that time.

And also, that interview which was widely praised across the political spectrum, he struggled so much to answer those questions that they completely changed their strategy at the White House and he was much more aggressive of course when he got to the Senate hearings.

MACCALLUM: Yes. I mean, I think part of what they wanted to do by putting him out there for an interview was to test him. To have him ask the questions about the specific allegations, every single one of them even the most salacious in allegations that were made by Michael Avanatti's client which you know pretty much folded like a cheap tent.

So I think that was part of what they wanted to do. It was right before the hearing, I don't know because you know that there was no discussion about the nature of our questions when it came to that. You know, but this is -- there's a larger issue here with regard to the Robert Mueller report that he's also getting a lot of pushback on here, Howie.

KURTZ: Right. The biggest news in the forthcoming Wolff's book has already been flatly denied by Bob mowers office that Mueller had drawn up a draft indictment of President Trump which seems even more ludicrous now that we know from Mueller himself that he thought he had no legal authority to indict a sitting president.

Now, you know, the last book as you said got raked over the coals. He wrote that he included account some sources that were baldly untrue or contradictory but he published him anyway. And by the way, I don't know what business he thinks he's in. Sometimes I guess he digs up some interesting or salacious things but when I profiled him nearly 20 years ago, people were complaining then that Michael Wolff had misquoted them.

MACCALLUM: Well, the New York Times -- I mean, I thought they did a good job pressing him on all of this in their interview with him. And they said to him, do you -- are you a journalist, and he said yes, you know, of course. I mean, you know, but he will willfully says that he doesn't call anybody, he doesn't check out his stuff because god forbid somebody pushed back on it when he already knows what happened which you know, we just demonstrated is absolutely not true.

KURTZ: In another interview, he called himself barely a journalist. And you know, there's a phrase in our business. It's called too good to check. If he had checked with you, with Fox and had been knocked down, then he might not have had to print it or he might have had to at least say that you said it was flatly untrue. That's called journalism. It's not a certain type of journalism. It's not institutional journalism. It's just journalism.

MACCALLUM: You know, I mean, it interesting to note. The book sold four million copies, his first book. I mean, Wolff -- and then it was roundly criticized and we'll see what happens with this one. But there's definitely an appetite out there for sort of a fiction version in many ways of something that passes for journalism or for some sort of you know, in the moment history.

KURTZ: Yes. Almost like a docudrama where you don't -- all the dialogue isn't accurate and you have scenes. I'm not making that charge here but that's sort of what it reminds me of.

MACCALLUM: Yes. It is interesting. So we'll see where it all goes from here. The publisher Henry Holt and Company, do they have a fact-checking responsibility would you say, Howie?

KURTZ: Absolutely. But many publishers don't check. Wolff has said he had a couple of fact-checkers on this. I guess, you know, this notion that the fact checkers didn't get around to checking this fact because he thought it would be silly, I just don't understand that.

I've taken so many things out of books and news articles over the years because you got to go to the person whose reputation you are potentially smearing, and at least give them their say and then you can make a journalistic judgment, Martha.

MACCALLUM: Yes, that would be appropriate. Howie, thank you very much. Good to see you tonight, Howie Kurtz.

KURTZ: Great to see you as well.

MACCALLUM: Coming up, an exclusive interview with the British ambassador to the United States and are these politicians invited to give college commencement speeches totally missing the point or do speeches like this inspire you?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Just today before this graduation ceremony started, we heard from the Special Counsel Robert Mueller who said there were multiple systemic efforts to interfere in our election, and that allegation deserves the attention of every American.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT: Nigel Farage is a friend of mine. Boris is a friend of mine. They are two very good guys. Very interesting people. I mean, they are friends of mine but I haven't thought about supporting them. Maybe it's not my business to support people, but I have a lot of respect for both of those men.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Interesting. Today, at the White House, the president sort of remaining cautious about going too far into British politics ahead of his state visit to the United Kingdom next week.

The high stakes trip comes on the heels of the somewhat surprising resignation announcement from Prime Minister Theresa May as the nation struggles to follow through on their Brexit vote.

The president also expected to head to Buckingham Palace for a banquet with the queen. There they together last summer.

Now earlier, I spoke with British ambassador to the United States, Sir Kim Darroch for an exclusive interview.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MACCALLUM: I remember the last time you and I spoke, you said, we were talking about the fact that it was not a state visit, the last time the president went and you said it takes, you know, six months to pull off a real state visit with all of these formal occasions and you said it would be either spring or fall, so you were right, it is the spring and it's about to get underway.

But it comes at a kind of difficult time diplomatically with Theresa May on her way out and all of this discussion about who is going to replace her.

SIR NIGEL KIM DARROCH, BRITISH AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED STATES: Well, you are right, Martha, that it's quite a turbulent time in British politics. But let's remember that a state visit, first of all, the invitation is from Her Majesty, the Queen.

And the centerpiece of the visit is the state banquet on next Monday night and there will be lunch with Her Majesty and members of the Royal family, talks a number 10 luncheon, number 10. A meeting with business leaders. And then on Wednesday the commemoration down in Portsmouth of the 75th anniversary of the D-Day landing.

So, you know, it's about much more a celebration of Britain's relations with the U.S. that is about just about the politics. But I'm sure the prime minister gets along well with the president.

They've talked a lot during her time in office. That her talks with the president on Tuesday and the working lunch, those will still be valuable and important and forward-looking talks from which there are some agreements will be reached and some forward-looking decisions taken.

MACCALLUM: One the things that he will no doubt want to speak with Theresa May about is this whole 5G issue and Huawei, the Chinese company that the United States has asked its allies to ban because there are deep national security concerns about what kind of vulnerability these countries might have by using 5G technology by Huawei. Japan and Australia have both agreed to ban it. Why has the U.K. not agreed to that?

DARROCH: Well, we've not taken a decision on 5G. The government is still considering this. We have had national security council discussion on it. There will be another one, I think before too long. We work our way through the issues and will reach a decision in due course.

But two points I'd like to make. One, national security considerations will be paramount in that decision. Second is we don't have Huawei equipment on any sensitive communications network at the moment. Not on government communication networks. Not on military ones.

So, we are already in a place where we understand the risks here. And as I say going forward, we will be keeping those national security considerations absolutely on top of our concerns as we take that decision.

And we are talking, I know, because I see the delegations come through.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

DARROCH: We are talking extensively to our American friends --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: Well, it will --

DARROCH: -- about their concerns as well. So, those will be taken into account, too.

MACCALLUM: It will be very interesting to see if the president brings it up with the queen and what her thoughts are on this. Obviously, she is not a -- will probably not speak publicly on it but maybe they will speak privately about it, and of course with Theresa May as well.

You know, just in terms of what U.K. citizens think about Brexit. One of them who is quite famous but he is also a sir is Elton John. And this is what he said at a conference -- at a concert, rather, in Verona, Italy.

He said, "I'm sick to death of politicians, especially British politicians. I'm sick to death of Brexit. I'm a European, I'm not a stupid colonial, imperialistic English idiot." What do you think about what Sir Elton John says about Brexit and how it's going?

DARROCH: It's interesting, Martha. I was at the Washington premier of the film about Sir Elton. Great fan of his music "Rocket Man" last night, it's a great film.

On his views on Brexit. Look, it's clear from the relatively, comparatively narrative result of the referendum that there was a clear win for leave that the British people are quite divided on this issue.

And if you look at the recent European Parliament elections just a week ago, I think those divisions remain. But the government was committed to and is committed to delivering the outcome of the referendum which was a choice to leave by 17.4 million to I think 16.1 million.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

DARROCH: And that's still what we are trying to do. The problem has been finding a parliamentary majority around any of the options. Not only was the prime minister unable to get agreement to her option, to her deal. But none of the other possibilities --

MACCALLUM: Yes.

DARROCH -- were able to get a majority either. So, you know, --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: A lot of different --

DARROCH: -- this will be now for the next, next prime minister to try and find the way through.

MACCALLUM: So I'm going to leave, leave you with one last question here about that potential next prime minister. Politically, would it be wise for the president to meet with Boris Johnson or would that hurt Boris Johnson given the fact that President Trump's approval numbers are quite low in the U.K.?

DARROCH: Yes. Look, it's entirely for the president and his advisors to decide who he would like to meet during his private time during his U.K. visit and nothing to do with us. There are at least 12 and maybe up to 13 now candidates for the prime ministership who have declared their intention to run. The ballot starts on, I mean, after -- shortly after the 10th of June.

So, we will know quite soon which two candidates go forward to a vote amongst conservative party members in the country. And so, it's quite a wide field, and I think it will be unwise to make any assumptions about who is going to come out on top.

MACCALLUM: Well, it will be very interesting to see if the president does step into a meeting with Boris Johnson. He is also close as he said to Nigel Farage and fascinating to watch this entire meeting as it plays out over the course of this state visit.

Ambassador Darroch, thank you very much. Good to speak with you tonight, sir.

DARROCH: Good to speak with you, too.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MACCALLUM: So, when we come back, are political commencement speeches actually inspiring to the classes of 2019.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY PELOSI, SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: We must pass comprehensive immigration reform. Any DREAMers in the house?

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TRUMP: And to the thousands of moms and dads and grandparents and family members beaming with joy, and that's what they are doing, they are beaming with joy. Thank you for raising rock ribbed American patriots.

(CROWD CHEERING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: That was President Trump delivering the commencement speech at the U.S. Air Force Academy this week. Largely focusing on the nearly 1,000 graduating cadets themselves, he really left politics basically out of the mix in this speech.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: They gave me a choice. They said, sir, you don't have to shake any hands? You can shake one hand, to the one person. Top of the class. You can shake 10, 50 or 100 and you could also stay for 1,000 and I'm staying for 1,000, OK?

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Cheers all around for that. A little bit of a different feel that we heard from Hillary Clinton who also spoke at a commencement here in New York City. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: We heard from the Special Counsel Robert Mueller who said there were multiple systemic efforts to interfere in our election. But what we've seen from the administration is the complete refusal to condemn a foreign power who attacked our democracy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: All right. So, let's see what inspires everybody out there. Joining me now, Mike Huckabee, former Republican governor of Arkansas, and Richard Fowler, nationally syndicated talk show host. Both are Fox News contributors and great friends of the show. Great to see both of you guys tonight.

RICHARD FOWLER, CONTRIBUTOR: Good to see you, Martha.

MACCALLUM: You know, this is the season where we hear these addresses. They, I think the best of them are uplifting, they're positive about the country, positive about the future. Richard, what did you think about the contrast that we saw just in those two for starters?

FOWLER: Listen, I think there are two different settings. I mean, the president spoke at the academy so he is speaking to our troops.

MACCALLUM: Sure.

FOWLER: And I think Hillary Clinton is speaking to another crowd. And what I will say is this. While I do agree with the secretary of state that we do need to work on ensuring our election to make sure that the Russians never ever, ever try to tinker with our democracy again, I'm not necessarily sure if a college commencement is the right setting for that type of speech.

And I mean, and the reason why I say you this, is you think about two weeks ago, right, where billionaire Robert Smith spoke in Morehouse College and he said not only he is going to inspire all the graduates, he is going to pay off all those student loan debt.

So, have that speech compared two weeks ago compared to you're talking the news of the day --

MACCALLUM: Yes.

FOWLER: -- it seems a little bit misplaced to me. But I think it is a major issue that just in the building behind me they should be focused on right now.

MACCALLUM: Governor Huckabee?

MIKE HUCKABEE, CONTRIBUTOR: Well, first of all, let me tell you, Jesus never spoke at the commencement because if he had done so there would have been another Beatitude in the New Testament. Blessed are the brief for they shall be invited again.

The number one thing that is important about a commencement address is keep it short. But the number two this is, don't talk about yourself, talk about the students, their hopes, their dreams. Make it about them. It's their graduation.

Hillary failed in that yesterday. And it was unfortunate. The president, I thought was brilliant and he talked about the grandparents and the parents. And he talked about America and he stood there and he shook a thousand hands of those cadets something they will never forget --

MACCALLUM: Yes.

HUCKABEE: And he didn't talk about himself and he didn't talk about politics. That's what a commencement ought to be about.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: But he does like to talk about himself a lot. So, it is interesting that he didn't at all. But here is another part of what he said. Play this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: So today, you take the controls, you are going to push it up and chart your course across the sky. Keep the wings level and true because your country is sending you on a vital mission to defend America, protect our people, and to pursue our nation's great and glorious destiny.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Richard, would you put that, would you say that's inspiring or no?

FOWLER: Yes, I think that's definitely inspiring part of the speech, right? And I think that is the job of what a commencement speaker is supposed to do. And this is the time where the president really spoke to these cadets and sort of urged them as their commander-in-chief to go out there and serve our country and protect our democracy.

But in protecting our democracy, hopefully this president will work with people like the Democrats in the House and Democrats in the Senate to make sure that we ensure our elections.

MACCALLUM: You know, it is interesting. You know, Hillary dwelled on Mueller. I'm not sure how much people in the audience really care about it. You know, our experience is that when you go out there in the country and this was New York City.

That, you know, it's not really something that people are that focused on and it also sort of goes back to the sour grapes of, you know, why she didn't win and all of that which I'm not sure people are that -- you know, really want to dig down deep on that with her at that moment in their lives when they're looking forward.

But, you know, it is -- you know, on the issue of -- it's interesting to watch Hillary up there, Governor Huckabee, when we are also starting this whole other part of the investigation. So, you know, maybe the timing was good to get this in before we start learning a little bit more about the origins of all of this with this report. It may be coming out around the corner.

HUCKABEE: Well, a couple of things. First of all, I wasn't sure if she was talking to graduates or she was talking to her counselor on the couch and reliving and re-litigating the 2016 election.

But the other thing that we got to remember she kept talking about how we need to be concerned about the attempted meddling in our election. Well, whose team was on the field when that was going on? Her team was. It was Barack Obama, it was Clapper, it was Brennan. It was Strzok and Page and Comey. That's who was running the government.

Why didn't they deal with it? Why didn't they stop it? Why didn't they fix it? I wish people would quit blaming Donald Trump he was a private citizen. He was not the president at that time.

FOWLER: Well, governor --

MACCALLUM: Go ahead.

FOWLER: It's not about blame. It's about how we ensure that future elections never get hacked by the Russians never again.

MACCALLUM: Which is important.

FOWLER: Robert Mueller -- Robert Mueller said very clearly. The first thing he said out of his statement was the Russian will do this again. Why don't we work together to make sure that we have honorable paper ballots for every single state to make sure that everybody's vote is counted and counted fairly without the possibility of Russian intrusion?

MACCALLUM: All right. Well, I think that's something that we should -- we all want to aspire to. I like General McRaven when he said make your bed in the morning.

FOWLER: Sure.

MACCALLUM: Great way to start your day.

(CROSSTALK)

FOWLER: My grandma used to tell me that one.

MACCALLUM: Very practical advice, exactly. Always got to feel like, you start -- at least I made my bed this morning, right, because when you go back to it at the end of the day it's all fresh and ready for you.

Richard, thank you very much. Great to have you weigh in.

FOWLER: Good to see you, Martha.

MACCALLUM: Governor Huckabee, always a pleasure to see you as well. Thank you.

HUCKABEE: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: So, still ahead tonight, revolutionary advances in helping America's heroes when they come home. Wait until you see what they are using for PTSD that puts the fighter back in the worst day of his life in the field.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES CERVERA, CHIEF, VIRGINIA BEACH POLICE DEPARTMENT: We have 11 deceased victims there at the scene. We had six more victims who were transported to area hospital. I do not have the condition of those victims at this particular time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: These poor people and their families. That news out of Virginia Beach. Tonight, police say the disgruntled worker opened fire at government building. Police say one of the injured is a police officer whose bullet proof vest saved his life. Here is an eyewitness who was inside on the second floor of the building when the shooting began.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was trying to listen to what happened and be on the phone with 911. We were just hoping that it would be over soon, and then we heard the cops kind of yelling up the steps.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Police returned fire and we're told the shooter is dead. We will have more updates as they come in tonight. That is “The Story” from New York. Tucker Carlson up next.

It's a staggering number, but on average 20 U.S. veterans commit suicide every single day. And that demands our attention. There is a new program from the foundation SoldierStrong which is dedicated to doing everything it can to help the mental health of our nation's heroes, strong mind is what it's called.

It uses revolutionary virtual reality equipment to slowly introduce soldiers back to the battlefield mimicking memory to help treat PTSD. It's really a revolutionary idea. My next guest is a veteran who credits this work with virtual reality for saving his life.

Chris Merkle joined the Marine Corps when he was 17. He served as an infantry man for 10 years on active duty. He says after multiple deployments he came home proud of his service but angry. He eventually reached out for mental health at the V.A. And he joins me now with his story. Chris, great to have you with us.

CHRIS MERKLE, MARINE CORPS VETERAN: Great to be here, Martha.

MACCALLUM: And thank you for your service to this country. You say you came back angry. What was that about?

MERKLE: Just from a life of living to protect and do everything else and using that aggression to do our job but that aggression and that instant being able to do our job doesn't do very well when you come home.

So, it doesn't really fit with being in school and being around other people and reacting, overreacting to things that really shouldn't bother me.

MACCALLUM: Tight. That transition is so hard --

MERKLE: Yes.

MACCALLUM: -- after all of that training that you went through. Talk to me a little bit about this virtual reality therapy. How you found it and isn't it scary to go back to the scary place that has lived in you in a hard way?

MERKLE: Yes, Martha, I mean, that's exactly on point. It is scary to address our worst fears but that's the biggest thing with PTSD and with our veteran or any community as that stigma mental health, that's an initial block. But once we get there, we do say I do have a problem and saying I have PTSD or I have anger, how do I deal with it?

It's hard to just do a psychotherapy and say this is my worst day can we talk about it. So, virtual reality gives you an opportunity to be immersed in that world which sounds horrible. But being in that first person in the moment it actually helps when you talk -- when you walk through your narrative. It's so much smoother and so much more --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: What were you able to tap into that you weren't able to before with this program?

MERKLE: So, one of the biggest things with mental health is resistance. So, first stigma trying to get into mental health and once you start seeking help. Resistance. So, I was talking about traffic. I thought my family, everything else that was bothering me on the surface and not getting to the point.

So, I was actually recommended to go to try virtual reality. When you are in the virtual reality field it's -- you're in that moment so you're reliving it. So, all of your senses it pulls back that memory and it works on everything that was bothering you, what you felt, what you saw, and you don't just say this is happening 10 years ago I was driving and we're starting to get hit.

It's I'm feeling. This I'm getting contact. And I'm doing this. And you're saying everything to the first person. Your memory is right there. And so, you are really restructuring that part of your brain that's like saying this is something scary, this is how you need to react.

So, it kind of reduces that trigger and saying it over and over the narrative style. The very first time I did it they are like, walk me through what happened from the beginning of the story to the end.

So, I walk through a really bad day in Iraq in Nasiriyah and it was a really long day and I saw a lot of different things and we did a lot of different things but no more or less in any other veteran that's down there.

But after I got down a couple of times, I took the virtual headset off and I apologized to the commission like, I'm sorry. (Inaudible) a couple of times. he's like, you just talked to something you've avoided and never talked about for 10 years.

MACCALLUM: Wow.

MERKLE: You went through it nine times and so it was so powerful for me to feel like, I survived that I was able to talk about it. I feel a little bit better and each time a little weight came off my -- literally my shoulders and I was able to face my family and my friends and be a little bit more productive in society. And that's my long-term goal and hopefully we want for everybody else's families as well.

MACCALLUM: This is very brave of you and it is brave of you to talk about it with us. And we hope that this virtual reality therapy can help a lot of people. SoldierStrong is working on it. And you are a great advocate for it and we thank you so much for being here today, Chris.

MERKLE: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: Chris Merkle, good to have you here, sir.

MERKLE: Yes. Thank you, ma'am.

MACCALLUM: Thank you again for your service.

MERKLE: Thank you, ma'am.

MACCALLUM: That is “The Story” on this Friday night. Join me Sunday night at 8 Eastern for remembering D-Day, a 75th anniversary special, and then “The Story” will be live from France next week June 4 to June 6th for the 75th anniversary of D-Day. We will be surrounded by honorable World War II heroes and we will be remembering those who gave the ultimate sacrifice for our freedom. Don't miss our special coverage from there.

We will see you back, here, though, in New York, Monday night.

Tucker Carlson is up next.

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