Oct. 25, 2020 – This is a rush transcript from “Media Buzz” October 25, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
HOWARD KURTZ, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: This is MEDIA BUZZ. I'm Howard Kurtz. It was a better, more civil, more substantive debate in Nashville, a much stronger performance from President Trump, pretty good counterpunching from Joe Biden, more control by NBC's Kristin Welker, and clashing views from the pundits.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How would you lead the country during this next stage of the Coronavirus crisis?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And I say we're learning to live with it. We have no choice.
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: People are learning to die with it.
TRUMP: If this is true, then he's a corrupt politician. So don't give me the stuff about how you're this innocent baby. Joe --
(CROSSTALK)
BIDEN: Abraham Lincoln here is one of the most racist presidents we've had in modern history. He pours fuel on every single racist fire.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joe Biden won this debate running away. Not only did Donald Trump lie, all the lies you just singled out were in the first 15 minutes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: President Trump did a fantastic job. I think there were classic Trump moments. And also, President Trump was a bit more measured.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He didn't set himself on fire tonight like he did at the first debate. I mean, he did lie like Pinocchio.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The president did what the media mob has refused to do this entire campaign. He held Joe Biden 47 years, all talk, no action, accountable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ: Joining us to analyze the coverage, Ben Domenech, founder and publisher of The Federalist, Susan Ferrechio, chief congressional correspondent for the Washington Examiner, and Ray Suarez, Washington correspondent for Euro News and host of KQED's WorldAffairs. Ben, even President Trump's detractors say it was a much improved performance by him in the debate.
But then you have got some left-leaning pundits who come out and say so what, doesn't matter, he lied all the time.
BEN DOMENECH, THE FEDERALIST: You know, anybody who is saying that the debate doesn't matter means that the side that they wanted to win lost, in my experience. And I think that this is another situation where, you know, that's true. The president gave one of, I think, the best debate performances he ever has. And I think that his closing argument when it goes into this election.
He did a really good job of presenting his case. I have to really compliment Kristin Welker who did an excellent job of moderating this debate and really keeping things in control when it came to keeping folks focused on the questions, keeping both of these candidates responding to things. I do think that, you know when it came to the discussion on certain topics.
We might have seen a few things that were left out. I would have liked to see more conversation, for instance, on the issue of foreign policy. But where I do think that there is some big divides between these two. But as a debate, I think this was beneficial for the American people. They really got to see what both of these candidates had to offer and to evaluate it as such.
KURTZ: It was a good, solid debate. We'll come back to Kristen Welker.
Susan, the fact checkers did have a field day with some of President Trump's comments. But I didn't see the media pouncing on Joe Biden, saying that Donald Trump is responsible for all 220,000 COVID deaths, as if any president could put on a cape and keep that number at zero.
SUSAN FERRECHIO, WASHINGTON EXAMINER CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT:
Right. And that's part of the overall narrative of the coverage of Coronavirus, I think has been particularly bad. I think the media did a terrible job, really looking at how the president took action to address Coronavirus, looking at his strengths and weaknesses in a fair way and a comprehensive way.
The story has always been that the president hasn't done enough. And if a Democrat were in office, the number would be close to zero. Nobody questions that. And you know why it's so important, Howie? It's one of the number one issues when you ask people what they're going to think about when they go to the polls in -- on November 3rd.
It's how the handling of the Coronavirus affected their lives and whether President Trump did a good job with it. And I don't think the media has done a very fair job covering it at all.
KURTZ: Well, more than 83,000 new cases on Friday, almost as many yesterday. Ray, even Joe Biden's detractors in the media say he did a pretty solid job. But there was some coverage, or some in the media, pouncing on the former vice president for his answer on transitioning away from the oil industry, the point where he had to clean it up with reporters afterwards and say I meant like in 2015, legitimate story?
RAY SUAREZ, WORLDAFFAIRS PODCAST HOST: Well, it's an old game that reporters play, you know? A recent Morning Consult political poll has majorities of both Democrats and independents and more than 40 percent of Republicans saying the U.S. economy should be transitioning away from oil and gas to renewables. This is a 1980s storyline that wants to make a claim on the 21st century.
Does Joe Biden have to be defensive about this? I don't know. This is the kind of pre-game crystal ball gazing that political reporters love to do.
Oh, maybe he just lost Pennsylvania. I doubt it. I doubt that answer in one debate, in one moment, in one evening is going to make much difference to the arc of the campaign.
KURTZ: Right. As I say, though, he did talk to reporters afterwards, I think trying to clarify what he was trying to say. All right, everybody knew the Hunter Biden allegations would come up in this debate. Let's take a brief look of some of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: I have not taken a penny from any foreign source ever in my life.
TRUMP: I don't make money from China. You do. I don't make money from Ukraine, you do. I don't make money from Russia. You made $3.5 million, Joe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ: Ben, most journalists say, and you may not agree, that the Hunter Biden attacks fell flat because the president was using shorthand, if you weren't following the story closely. Maybe you didn't get all the nuances, and because he can't prove that Joe Biden got a dime.
DOMENECH: I think that there are two main takeaways that are negative for Joe Biden from this debate. One is the issue that Ray was just talking about. Disagreeing with him the nation actually put a whole thing out, talking about how negative it affects Joe Biden when he talks about transitioning away from oil and about, you know, potential or limits on fracking.
I think the other issue that really did hurt him is the way that he handled this question and this issue of his son's relationship with these foreign entities. I think it should be really easy for Joe Biden to say there is -- look. My son may have made some mistakes. He may have done some things that I wouldn't approve of. But the truth is that you can look at my finances and you can see that as president, I would not be representing anything but myself.
The problem is that he advanced this whole narrative of this is Russian disinformation, misinformation et cetera, for which there is no basis, for which there is no factual support, dismissing all of this as being some kind of fictional creation. I don't think that's the right way to engage in this story. I think that he should be much more forthright, if saying this something that may be a problem but it's not something that affected me.
KURTZ: And on that point, Susan, Biden opened the door by being the first to say, well, Rudy Giuliani is peddling Russian misinformation. And that of course, led to the attacks by President Trump. I also don't see a lot of coverage, as just a complicated story we'll get into more later that some of these emails have been independently verified, the emails involving the former vice president's son.
FERRECHIO: Can you imagine if this was Don Jr.? Just -- the emails lay out how these companies used Hunter Biden to gain access to the Obama administration. It says, right in one of the emails, don't mention Joe. I mean, this -- these emails lay it out. And the media has been entirely incurious about it from the very beginning, even before they could say whether the emails were real or not.
They were providing cover for Joe Biden by saying there's no connection between any of his official actions, and whether or not Hunter Biden had any influence on policy. The story just screams out for investigation, and nobody seems to care. It's really remarkable.
KURTZ: But in purely political terms, Ray, and many in the media pointed this out. Some conservative commentators have gone on the air and say this is not helping President Trump politically to make Hunter Biden a top issue.
SUAREZ: We'll see. I mean, as you note, the president, by being so deeply immersed in the minutia of this, used a bunch of telegraphed attacks that only would score with people who were watching, who understood the outlines of the story very well. Joe Biden, not to his credit, answered in a similar kind of shorthand and code, used that moment in the debate to open the door in an attack on President Trump's taxes and revealed that he himself had released 20 years of taxes instead of going directly at the accusations.
KURTZ: Right. Now, we talked earlier about NBC's Kristen Welker, the moderator. Both sides praising her performance, including President Trump at the debate, let's take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: And by the way, so far, I respect very much the way you're handling this.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let's move on.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, I have to move on to the next question.
(CROSSTALK)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ: So Susan, how did Kristin Welker do it?
FERRECHIO: So she had the help of a mute button, which I think was used very subtly. It was very helpful, I think. But she did a -- remember, these debates are really not so we can all sit around and talk about it later in the media. It's for voters to have some idea where Joe Biden stands on really important issues and where Trump stands on those issues.
During the first debate, the crosstalk and interruption by both of them made it impossible for anybody to figure out what was going on. So the voters really got nothing out of that. This debate, they heard a lot. They heard a lot about policy from Joe Biden. They heard a lot about what was really important for President Trump, like the Coronavirus and how he's handling it, great job by Kristin Welker.
KURTZ: I agree. And interesting, Chris Wallace who presided over the cacophony in Cleveland joked that he was jealous. All right, just about a minute and a half here, Ben. The media are largely calling this debate a draw, or saying, you know, maybe the edge went to President Trump, but it doesn't do enough to change the dynamics of a race in which he is behind.
At the same time, 63 million people watched, but that's 10 million fewer than the first debate, quick thought.
DOMENECH: I think that the president, you know, did a good job presenting things. But I do think that we have to note something here, which is this, is probably going to be the last debate. The Commission on Presidential Debates is in control of. They're frankly a very old, long in the tooth organization. They've run these things for decades, since before the end of the Cold War.
And there's so much animosity toward them on the part of Republicans in the way that they structured these debates, out of the entire, you know, conflagration that happened for -- about that second debate and Steve Scully. I do not think in 2024 that a Republican nominee will agree to any debate that is set to their terms.
KURTZ: All right, a story for the future. Ray, just briefly, did this debate fit this sort of classic pattern of a huge build-up by the media, and then afterwards each side said, well, my guy did much better, and it doesn't change anything.
SUAREZ: No. The dynamics here are so much influx and the situation's so unprecedented. When the lights went up on that set, Howie, more than 50 million people had already voted, which changes the dynamics of public interest. This is not the situation in (AUDIO GAP) where the vast majority of Americans are waiting for the day for those polls to open for them to express their opinion.
KURTZ: Excellent observation. This is the pandemic election. All right, let me get a break. When we come back, a look at the coverage of the president pressing his AG to move against Barack Obama and Joe Biden, and later, a top Trump campaign spokesperson and a top Biden supporter.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KURTZ: President Trump has hit many targets in recent days, especially in a Fox and Friends interview when he pressed Bill Barr to open a criminal probe of the Biden family before the election.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some are asking will you appoint a special prosecutor to investigate this.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: We've got to get the attorney general to act. He's got to act, and he's got to act fast. He's got to appoint somebody. Lock up the Biden's.
Lock up Hillary. And as far as I'm concerned, the Biden family is a criminal enterprise.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Campaign strategy seems to call Biden a criminal. Why is that?
TRUMP: He is a criminal. He's a criminal. He got caught. Read his laptop.
And you know who is the criminal? You're a criminal for not reporting it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ: That was Reuters' Jeff Mason. And the president attacked others as well from the medical world to the media world.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: People are tired of hearing Fauci and all these idiots, these people, these people that have gotten it wrong. Every time he goes on television, there's always a bomb, but there's a bigger bomb if you fire him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The president looks like he's already decided he's lost. He's like the cranky -- Biden's a criminal. Fauci is terrible. It's what losers sound like.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The president is gaining massive momentum. Democrats, despite what they say, and the media mob, what they say, they're enablers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ: Ben, on the Obama administration, this is not unnamed sources. The president is publicly pressing his attorney general to name a prosecutor, look into Obama and Biden, and the media are kind of stunned at this open political pressure.
DOMENECH: I don't think it's any question that this is going to be a story that outlasts this election. I feel like people are confining this to Donald Trump, the person, you know, sort of lashing out at people who are his political enemies. But there are real, valid questions here raised by these emails. And we know for a fact that this laptop was seized as part of an FBI investigation.
It was categorized as money laundering investigation. This is not something that's going to go away after November 3rd. It's going to be something that continues to be looked into. And there are going to be continued calls to look into it, just as there are from the president to look into, you know, the allegations regarding spying on his own campaign that come up in the 60 Minutes interview.
This is not stuff that just vanishes if Donald Trump loses on November 3rd.
It's going to be something that Republicans continue to dig into, not just because of the political benefit, but because of the really disturbing allegations that are contained within.
KURTZ: Ray, even if you grant that there are legitimate questions here that will continue, and even some conservative commentators say, yeah, Obama and Biden should be investigated for spying. Isn't that the kind of judgment that usually is left to an independent Justice Department as opposed to pressure from the president himself?
SUAREZ: Do we have an independent Justice Department? I think that's a fair and open question from now until mid-January. And Applebaum (ph) writing in The Atlantic notes that this is technique on the part of the president to get the troops ready for a Biden victory and to keep the pot boiling even after inauguration and to hobble the new president, that's their opinion, but it's an interesting point of view.
(CROSSTALK)
FERRECHIO: Wow, Ray. That sounds an awful lot like what they did to President Trump when he took office. I mean, you know, was the Justice Department and FBI independent under President Obama when they started the investigation into President Trump, another story completely buried and under-covered by the media. It's just --
(CROSSTALK)
SUAREZ: -- repeated investigations have found that the Russians were attempting to influence the outcome of the 2016 election -- and repeated investigations find that they're trying to do it in 2020.
FERRECHIO: But they did not find that Trump was colluding with the Russians. I mean, the two stories are different, though. The two stories are different.
SUAREZ: Well, yes, absolutely. You and I you agree on that, but you brought it up.
KURTZ: All right. Let me jump in, which is I know the president loves to beat up on correspondents and reporters. I don't see politically that a lot of votes in calling the mild-mannered Jeff Mason of Reuters a criminal for simply asking a question about the president calling Joe Biden a criminal.
But let me come back to the second part of this sound montage we just played, Ben.
And that is journalists are also asking in the middle of this pandemic and, you know, we just found out last night from Bloomberg that Mark Short, the vice president's chief of staff, has tested positive for Coronavirus as well as four other aides and advisors to Pence who heads the Coronavirus task force. The president, in a press call to call Anthony Fauci an idiot and news about firing him, how does that make sense as media messaging or as political strategy?
DOMENECH: Anthony Fauci isn't an idiot. But I think that the media's narrow focus on the president during this time has created some really disturbing coverage, a lack of questioning of our health officials, when it came to obvious errors they made from the beginning, including Anthony Fauci, about things that we ought to do or ought not to do.
The fact that we have this whole attitude towards public schooling reopening, that it's completely not based in science that we know and what we've learned from around the world, and frankly, the kowtowing to political opponents of the president who have a lot of things to answer for. We saw this media tour this week from Andrew Cuomo, the person who's presided over more deaths than maybe any local official in the world when it comes to this.
Where everyone is acting like a sycophant toward them on this, you know, pandemic propaganda promotion material that makes up his book, and yet, they're not even asking him the most obvious questions. We need to be questioning everybody. Not just President Trump, but the health officials as well.
KURTZ: Ray, the president did say Fauci's a good person in the debate. Let me just get my question out. But is it focused too much on Trump and Fauci, or is the focus on the Coronavirus pandemic? Ray?
SUAREZ: Sorry, Howie, I lost your audio.
KURTZ: OK. OK, Ray, is the focus too much on Trump and Fauci, or is the focus on the virus itself?
SUAREZ: Yes. There has been too much focus on Trump and Fauci. The press corps concentrates on personalities. And when two personalities are in contrast, it uses that contrast as a frame to tell a story, nothing new about that. It's only about 1,000 years old.
KURTZ: All right. Sorry we lost your audio there. Just before we go, Ben Domenech, congratulations to you and Meghan McCain on having a baby girl, hope you're getting some sleep.
DOMENECH: Thank you, Howie. I truly appreciate it, and wish us luck.
KURTZ: Good luck, and thanks, panel. Up next, a deeper look at the reporting on the Hunter Biden allegations, and a high profile suspension at the New Yorker.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KURTZ: This is a Fox News alert. President Trump boarding Air Force One, getting ready to board Air Force One, for a trip to New Hampshire where amazingly the conservative New Hampshire union leader has endorsed Joe Biden, never thought I would see that. Meanwhile, Fox News has confirmed the White House is acknowledging that Vice President Pence's chief of staff, Mark Short, and four other aides and advisors have tested positive for Coronavirus.
While some news outlets keep ignoring or downplaying the Hunter Biden allegations, the FBI confirmed it has his hard drive. And a former business partner confirmed to Fox News and the New York Post the authenticity of emails showing the former vice president's son tried to make millions of dollars in China, but there's more. Joining us now is Fox News correspondent, Griff Jenkins.
So Griff, the former business partner's name is Tony Bobulinski -- excuse me. Here's a brief look at what he said when the Trump campaign brought him to the national debate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have heard Joe Biden say that he's never discussed business with Hunter. That is false.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ: So Griff, explain the role of Toby -- Tony Bobulinski and the China deal that never came off but was the subject of these emails.
GRIFF JENKINS, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Sure, Howie. So Bobulinski is a former business partner, Navy veteran with Hunter Biden. And you were talking about a business venture with a Chinese energy company in 2017 in the time when vice -- when Joe Biden was not sitting vice president. Now, what Bobulinski is saying is that when Joe Biden says he did not discuss business ventures with his son, Hunter, Bobulinski says that Biden is lying.
That he was firsthand witness to that. And he also says that Hunter, in that deal, wanted some $5 million going to an entity directly controlled by Hunter Biden and his family. But Fox's review of Bobulinski's documents, which were given to us, found no role for Joe Biden in that business venture. However, you have Senate Homeland Security Committee Ron Johnson investigating the Biden family business for conflicts of interest.
And Bobulinski's legal team has offered to meet with the FBI. And I think really the point now this morning, Howie, is a lot of people are wondering if a former business partner of one of President Trump's sons alleged firsthand knowledge of an influence-peddling scheme directly involving the president with an adversary, would these news organizations be covering it in the same manner.
KURTZ: There is another former business partner who says he knows of no involvement by Joe Biden. The Wall Street Journal says that -- also reviewed the texts messages and emails, saying they don't show either Hunter Biden or James Biden, the brother, discussing a role for Joe Biden.
My problem with this, briefly, Griff, is that these emails are from 2017.
At that time, Joe Biden is out of office. So while it may have been unseemly, if it was true that Joe Biden was even acquiescing in a potential deal with China, he no longer has the power of the White House behind him at that time.
JENKINS: That's correct. And, you know, the fact that the laptop in question, which Fox has only verified a small portion of that story, also involves the Burisma and Ukrainian dealings which sort of connects the two, that of course when Joe Biden was a sitting vice president. The end of the day, what you're talking about is, is it legit to ask questions about the possible, next sitting president could have a conflict of interest?
Perhaps so, but one thing is for sure. It's not getting the sort of attention that Fox has given it and the New York Post and others as we get close to this election in 10 days.
KURTZ: And it is legitimate, except national public radio has barely covered the Hunter Biden allegations. The managing editor Terrence Samuel
(ph) saying we don't want to waste our time on stories that are not really stories. We don't want to waste the listeners' and readers' time on stories that are just pure distractions. How about reporting on it?
And if you think you cannot get down (Inaudible) it's not a distraction.
It's not a waste of time. I've got to go, Griff Jenkins, great to have you as always.
JENKINS: Thanks, Howie.
KURTZ: The New Yorker suspended veteran reporter, Jeffrey Toobin, this week after Vice reported he had been seen pleasuring himself during a Zoom call with magazine colleagues at a local radio station. Toobin is also a chief legal analyst at CNN, which granted him time off at his request to deal with the fallout from this exposure incident.
Toobin told Vice, "I made an embarrassingly stupid mistake, believing I was off-camera. I apologize to my wife, family, friends and co-workers. I believed I was not visible on Zoom. I thought no one on the Zoom call could see me. I thought I had muted the Zoom video."
The unfortunate incident has drawn lots of coverage and no shortage of jokes. But we're not going to go down that road.
Coming up, Erin Perrine of the Trump campaign on coverage of the debate and the president's battles with the press.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KURTZ: Joining us now on coverage of the debate and a pretty wild week in the countdown to Election Day is Erin Perrine, director of press communications for the Trump campaign.
Welcome. Let me start with the debate. Many in the media saying President Trump was much improved in the second debate in Nashville but Biden carried a lot of the attacks or they're saying the president did some lying or they're saying, yeah, he did fine but it doesn't change the nature of the campaign. What's your take on the coverage of this final debate?
ERIN PERRINE, TRUMP 2020 DIRECTOR OF PRESS COMMUNICATIONS: The coverage is what we would always expect from the media, which is they're trying to prop Joe Biden up and say he did a better job than he actually did, when in fact, President Trump was exceptional in the debate.
He really systemically went through each and every one of Joe Biden's argument and pushed back and had the facts. It was the clear contrast of 47 months of President Trump's success versus Joe Biden's 47 years of failure.
The president was measured. He was strong. He showed what his policies have been able to do for the American people on a wide range of topics.
It's not surprising that the media would try and make the president look like he hadn't done a good job when he had done a great job because this is their narrative the entire time. If President Trump does something that doesn't fit their narrative, then they're going to go ahead and try and spin it away from him. That's what we saw here.
They said Joe Biden did better than he did. Joe Biden did a terrible job in that debate. President Trump was the clear winner.
KURTZ: All right. You put him down for an A plus. Uh, does the president regret having earlier attacked the moderator, NBC White House correspondent Kristen Welker, as an activist, not a reporter when he has said several times since that debate that she was very fair?
PERRINE: She did a good job moderating that debate. But listen, the presidential debate commission put forward people that had clearly partisan leanings as these unbiased as they call them moderators. We need someone that would allow for a free and fair debate during the debate process.
And so if there are concerns that people are going to be slanted against the president, absolutely he's going to call that out, and he has every right to.
KURTZ: I'll just remind viewers that it is a bipartisan commission. I know it's come under a lot of criticism, not just from your campaign --
PERRINE: Yeah, but there's a bunch of never-trumpers on there.
KURTZ: OK. Look, some of the president's own conservative allies are now saying publicly and some of them are privately telling reporters like me that it is a mistake for President Trump to make the allegations involving Hunter Biden a top issue in the campaign. Take a listen to former Governor Mike Huckabee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIAN KILMEADE, FOX NEWS HOST: He's leading with Hunter Biden. Is that a mistake?
MIKE HUCKABEE, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR, FORMER ARKANSAS GOVERNOR, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yeah, it is a mistake because the average person doesn't understand it. It's too complicated. And frankly, it doesn't matter to them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ: So, is Mike Huckabee wrong on that point?
PERRINE: Well, President Trump is pointing out here, he's talking about a wide variety of things here, but, again, this is the 47 months versus 47 years argument the president has been making the entire time.
The reason President Trump is president of the United States is a rejection of the Obama/Biden policies and a corrupt, crooked Hillary Clinton ink.
That's why he is president. The American people wanted a fighter, someone that wasn't going to leave them behind to be a D.C. swamp creature.
So absolutely, this is going to be part of the conversation even if the media doesn't want to do their job and cover it. The president is going to talk about it. But you also see him talking about jobs, about fracking, about the fact that Joe Biden wants to destroy the energy industry in the United States, about the fact that the president has lowered taxes and Joe Biden wants to increase them.
The president is talking about a lot of things. It's just the media that isn't doing their journalistic duty here, covering the Hunter Biden stuff.
And the president is the president because people don't want swamp creatures in D.C., they want fighters.
KURTZ: All right. Well, there obviously has been some coverage and there have been other news organizations that have barely covered it at all.
Why does the president say that Joe Biden is a criminal and should be in jail? That's very different than saying corrupt family or influence peddling. And on that point, why did he go on Fox News and say that his attorney general, Bill Barr, should appoint a special prosecutor to look into Barack Obama and Joe Biden before the election? Isn't that the kind of pressure on the justice department that Republicans have always been against?
PERRINE: There are a lot of questions here about Joe Biden, about influence peddling, about Hunter Biden, about the fact that Joe Biden lied to the American people, I don't know countless amounts of times about whether or not he ever spoke to Hunter about his foreign business dealings.
There are a lot of questions here that are not being answered. And so the president can absolutely step forward and talk about the attorney general and special prosecutor looking into these things.
And let's remember here, people were so quick to jump on having a special prosecutor to look into the president when that was just an absolute hoax, whatsoever.
We should have a government that works for the American people and that is accountable to the American people. And any time there are questions about that, absolutely it should be looked into, and that's what President Trump is talking about here.
KURTZ: But it is one thing for you or of any advocate to say it should be looked into or we need an independent counsel. When the president does it, he is arguably, according to his critics, trampling on the independence of the justice department and would make any move by Bill Barr, who the president lately says he's not happy with, look political.
PERRINE: President Trump can -- is an American. He can speak his mind. He can talk about the fact that he wants these things looked into. That's not an issue. That's not a crime. And the fact that the American journalistic integrity is completely gone in this process, the president is not pressuring anybody to do anything.
What he is doing is saying there are questions, they should be answered.
That's just good governance, that's just trying to make sure the American people have --
KURTZ: All right.
PERRINE: -- people who are accountable.
KURTZ: All right. Let's close now on the coronavirus because the president went after CNN for what he says is a constant coverage of COVID-19. Let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You turn on CNN, that's all they cover. COVID, COVID, pandemic. COVID, COVID. People aren't buying it, CNN, you dumb bastards.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: There are 220,417 reasons to talk about coronavirus.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ: But why wouldn't the coronavirus be heavily covered by every news organization, given the recent surge in new cases, given the hospitalizations are up, and given that 224,000 Americans have died?
PERRINE: The president mourns the loss of each and every American. He talks about the coronavirus. He is addressing the coronavirus Operation Warp Speed, the ability to get therapeutics out there, PPE and ventilators, the largest mobilization of the government with a public/private partnership to help save American lives.
But again, it is what the president always said, which is correct, to say we can't let the disease be worse than the outcome, we have to make sure that we are continuing our lives, that all of these other things are going on.
There was another Middle East peace deal this week because of this president, because of his exceptional foreign policies. And so why we are only talking about one thing when all of these other things are going on in this country, including Joe Biden continuing to lie to the American people about his policies, about the fact that he is a radical socialist who wants to upend our country?
KURTZ: OK.
PERRINE: There are so many things to talk about in this country. And each and every life that's lost to the coronavirus, the president mourns.
KURTZ: Well, we all mourn. Erin Perrine, it's great to have you here.
Thanks very much for joining us.
PERRINE: Thank you.
KURTZ: After the break, former Democratic Congressman Harold Ford with the Biden campaign's point of view.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KURTZ: Joining us now is a Biden campaign supporter, Harold Ford, the former Democratic congressman from Tennessee. Welcome. And during that national debate, as I mentioned, the press generally giving Joe Biden high marks, but saying that he really stepped in it with this answer on oil production. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Would you close down the oil industry?
JOE BIDEN (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I would transition from the oil industry, yes. I would transition it.
TRUMP: Oh, that's a big statement.
BIDEN: That is a big statement because I would stop --
KRISTEN WELKER, NBC NEWS WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Why would you do that?
BIDEN: Because the oil industry poll pollutes significantly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ: So reporters later asking the former VP whether or not he was sacrificing millions of jobs in the oil industry. So that answer was a blunder, correct?
HAROLD FORD, JR., FORMER TENNESSEE CONGRESSMAN: Well, first, thanks for having me on. I think he has tried to clarify that. That there's no doubt we're moving -- the world is moving quickly towards a clean energy economy.
I might have said it a little differently. I think he might have said it differently. But he came back to clarify it in Pennsylvania and other states he visited since then.
KURTZ: Right. The fact that it needed clarification is why I'm asking you the question. Now, Joe Biden is trying to put the whole court packing controversy behind him. He has not answered that question in recent weeks.
He told "60 Minutes" he would appoint a commission to look into the future of the courts.
Come on, man, to quote somebody you know. A commission, isn't that the oldest Washington dodge around?
FORD: Well, there are a number of scholars, Republican, Democrat, conservative, liberal alike who offered ideas about ways to strengthen the judiciary. As you probably know, Howard, there are different circuits with different numbers of jurists that sit on those circuits. There's no uniform number.
So, maybe we need a uniform number for all our circuits. Maybe we need a set term for, instead of a lifetime appointment to the -- each of the levels of the judiciary.
These are things that I hope that a bipartisan commission would take a hard and serious look at. I do think we probably need to pass a new law, so Congress should not be allowed to push anyone to the Supreme Court, the appellate court or the federal district court branch between Labor Day and Election Day in a presidential year.
That would have probably solved this issue when you consider that we're rushing to get Judge Barrett, who seems qualified, but probably should just wait until after the election. We're pushing and rushing her --
KURTZ: Well --
FORD: -- but not rushing an economic --
KURTZ: But as you know -- but as you know, that is not going to happen. In fact, Amy Coney Barrett will probably be confirmed to the Supreme Court tomorrow on a party line vote.
But at the same time, look, Joe Biden doesn't want to say, yeah, I'm looking at adding extra seats to the high court because that would cause a fury. He doesn't want to say he's not going to do it because it will disappoint the left. So, isn't this a punt? Isn't that exactly what it is?
FORD: Well, I don't think so. Maybe it's because he really wants to seriously think about it. Maybe it is because he understands that the American people deserve more than just a partisan punch and a partisan reaction to something.
I happen to think that limiting the lifetime appointment is something we should consider. I could be dissuaded of that. But having served in Congress, I never quite understood why that branch received lifetime appointments.
I understand not wanting to have an influence politically, but a 12, 16, 18-year term is something I hope a bipartisan commission would contemplate and perhaps provide a fuller explanation as to why they don't support that.
KURTZ: All right. Congressman, on the Hunter Biden allegations, Joe Biden told a Wisconsin television station that Rudy Giuliani is peddling garbage, this is a smear, he told another local TV station yesterday this is all a lie. I understand why he's defending his son. We've acknowledged that there isn't any proof that Joe Biden himself ever got any money from this.
But why is he unable to say that this either foreign influence peddling or attempted influence peddling by his son looks awful, even if he -- even Hunter Biden has said it was a mistake?
FORD: Well, I don't know all that the vice president has said on that. I do know the story has centered around on whether or not he was involved. I think -- I watched your great reporter, Griff Jenkins, saying Fox News couldn't find anything there. I even heard you say this was 2017. He was not in government even if these facts are true which they've been denied.
Maybe we'll get some new legislation around these issues in a Biden administration. Maybe a new Congress will be willing to do that. But I do think that the one area where you have raised I think that probably deserves a little more credit is that there's no reason for the press not to pick up on this and cover it and put the story to rest.
I think the more the press covers, the more the American people will see that there's nothing here, that this is nothing but politics being played by Mayor Giuliani and by some other members of the Trump campaign.
KURTZ: All right. So you don't think the story is being over-covered and I would agree that more reporting is always good and if there's nothing there, that should come out. But it's a complicated story, as you know.
Harold Ford, former congressman, thanks very much for joining us.
FORD: Thanks for having me.
KURTZ: I appreciate having you here. Still to come, Donald Trump versus Lesley Stahl and why the pundits should be weary of all those polls favouring a certain candidate.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KURTZ: It's really rather extraordinary that President Trump walked out of an interview you with CBS's Lesley Stahl and blew off a planned walk and talk with Mike Pence.
The White House broke its words to the network by posting its own video of the interview days before the magazine show could air it tonight along with sit-downs with Pence, Joe Biden, and Kamala Harris.
So, what exactly did Stahl do? The questions were largely fair, but she disputed Trump's version of events on several issues, including on Hunter Biden and this one about the Obama administration.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The biggest scandal was when they spied on my campaign. They spied on my campaign.
LESLEY STAHL, CBS NEWS CORRESPONDENT: There's no real evidence of that.
TRUMP: Of course, there is.
STAHL: No.
TRUMP: It's all over the place. Lesley --
STAHL: Sir --
TRUMP: They spied on my campaign and they got caught.
STAHL: Can I say something? You know, this is "60 Minutes" and we can't put on things we can't verify.
TRUMP: You won't put it on because it's bad for Biden.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ: When Stahl recalled Trump telling her back in 2016 he attacks fake shows to discredit negative stories about him, the president said, I don't have to discredit you, you discredited yourself.
Look, Lesley Stahl was argumentative at times and she got under Trump's skin. Many of those exchanges would never have aired given "60 Minutes"
heavy editing. But it was still a middle finger for the White House to spoil the exclusive.
We are all absolutely positively drowning in polls.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHANNON PETTYPIECE, NBC NEWS SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: There is a CNN poll that came out Wednesday that now showed Biden leading among seniors by eight points.
BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS CHIEF POLITICAL ANCHOR: The latest Fox survey of likely voters has Joe Biden ahead in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ: Now, these polls, as you know, show Joe Biden leading President Trump by an average of about eight points nationally and ahead sometimes by a few points, sometimes by double digits, in most battleground states.
There's even a Quinnipiac showing the two men tied in Texas.
Now, we know most of the media expects Trump to lose because I keep reading all these leaked stories about who is going to be in the Biden cabinet.
Just the other day, The New York Times said Biden -- quote -- "could pull off a landslide in November."
Anyone other than Trump says Politico would be facing coverage as the political equivalent of a hospital vigil for a very sick patient. But journalists have PTSD from 2016 when the Times, Politico and just about everyone else was wrong about the coming Hillary presidency.
There are so many variables. Fifty-seven million have already voted, COVID's impact on in-person voting, whether states can handle this incredible surge in mail ballots, the tendency to undercount Trump supporters that we in the news business really need to break our addiction to using polls to forecast victory or defeat.
Some media liberals who believe Donald Trump will lose are edging into dangerous territory. Two ex-prosecutors or are fixtures at MSNBC wrote in The Washington Post of potential criminal charges. The piece headlined "A Rap Sheet for a Former President." This followed New York magazine's "lock him up" piece, declaring that Trump must be tried for his crimes.
The Washington Post outlook section ran a column agreeing with MSNBC host Chris Hayes that there should be a national truth commission, saying it's unimaginable, even ludicrous to contemplate doing nothing about Donald Trump.
No of one is above the law. But all this suggests a hunger for revenge even as many of these critics castigate Trump for demanding that Barack Obama and Joe Biden be prosecuted. A post in Post column says journalists must be part of any national soul searching.
"Does The Washington Post not bear some responsibility for the state of the nation? Or, most of all, Facebook? Or CNN? Or people who spit all over each other on Twitter?"
An excellent point and one that pundits demanding payback might consider and they could be wrong about next week's outcome.
That's it for this edition of MEDIA BUZZ. I am Howard Kurtz. Thanks for watching. We hope you like our Facebook page. You can post to my daily columns there, continue the conversation on Twitter.
And check out my podcast, "Media Buzzmeter." You can subscribe at Apple iTunes, Google podcast or on your Amazon device. We have a lot of fun with that.
We're down to the final pre-election show next Sunday, folks. We'll see you back here then with the latest buzz.
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