A Judge's Order Has Gang Members Outraged

This is a partial transcript from "The O'Reilly Factor," June 16, 2004 that has been edited for clarity.

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BILL O'REILLY HOST:  In the "Unresolved Problem" segment tonight, Ventura County (search) is just north of Los Angeles.  And like many California communities, it has a problem with violent youth gangs.  So Judge Fred Bysshe (search) has issued an injunction against the group called Colonia Chiques (search), ordering the gang to be off the streets by 10:00 p.m. and to stop flashing gang signs, among other things.

In response the gang has acquired an attorney to fight the judge's ruling.  Even though the D.A. says the Chiques have been responsible for more than 2000 crimes.  Joining us now from Los Angeles are gang members Olga Martinez and Norma Martinez, no relation, and attorney John Hachmeister.

OK.  I'm going to begin with you, Norma.  What exactly is -- do you want me to call it a gang, an organization, I don't care, but what is it that you guys do?

NORMA MARTINEZ, GANG MEMBER:  Well, really La Colonia Chiques is a community.  It's not a gang.  It's just a community.  There is project housings, there is regular houses and it's just a little community.

O'REILLY:  All right, so how many are you?

N. MARTINEZ:  In the community?

O'REILLY:  In the Chiques group?

N. MARTINEZ:  Well, I don't know.  We don't really consider ourselves as a group.  It's just a big community that we're at.  And it's just that we're labeled that way.

O'REILLY:  Do you have meetings or do you hang out with each other?  Do you have a clubhouse, anything like that?

N. MARTINEZ:  No.  We don't have a clubhouse or anything.  It's just a big community.  We have a lot of neighbors and a lot of family who live in the same place and we just have get-togethers at each other's houses and we just...

O'REILLY:  All right.  Who come up with the name Colonia Chiques, Olga?

OLGA MARTINEZ, GANG MEMBER:  Well, really...

O'REILLY:  Go ahead.

O. MARTINEZ:  Who came up with the name, Colonia Chiques?

O'REILLY:  Yes.

O. MARTINEZ:  Honestly, I don't know.  And like Norma was saying, this is just -- Colonia Chiques is basically a community.  We're community, OK?  We have the projects, we have the houses.  We're not like this really bad gang that everybody is talking about.  It's just the community that we live in.

O'REILLY:  OK.  But a lot of the people in the community have criminal records such as yourself.  You served time in a youth correction facility for armed robbery, grand theft, battery which caused serious bodily injury.  And Norma, you have a record as well for assault.  You beat up a girl with a baseball bat and smashed her house windows.  So I mean, you know, if it looks like a gang, it has got a name like a gang, there is crimes being committed by community members, I think I might say it's a gang, you know?

N. MARTINEZ:  I mean, I understand that there have been problems in our community, but I mean we're not the only community that have problems or that commit crimes.  There is a lot of other communities that commit the crimes as well.  We're not the only ones.  I mean, we have a pretty large population there.  So maybe that's where it's a little higher than other places.  But it's not like we go around looking for trouble.  We don't go around...

O'REILLY:   But you two ladies, you're young ladies and you both have criminal records and you both belong to this organization that the district attorney says is responsible for more than 2000 crimes.  So come on, I mean, you are trying to tell me that you guys are Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm out there or what?

N. MARTINEZ:  We're not saying we're little angels.  We're not saying that.  I mean, we have our pasts.  But now that we're trying to go on with our lives, this happened a long time ago.

O'REILLY:  What do you guys do for a living?

N. MARTINEZ:  This is our juvenile records.  I'm an inventory specialist and I have custody of two of my nieces.  So I'm basically like a mom and I work.

O'REILLY:  All right.  What do you do, Olga?

O. MARTINEZ:  I work Western Dental (ph).  I'm the sterilizer and the dentist's assistant.  I have my car.  I'm trying to go to college.  I get off parole in three months.   And with this gang injunction, do you guys really think I'm going to get off parole successfully?  Because right now I'm a target.  I'm trying to move on with my life.  Yes, I did something when I was younger.

O'REILLY:  So you're telling me that both of you guys made mistakes but now you're going straight and you're not committing any crimes, you're not dealing any weed or any of that?

N. MARTINEZ:   Exactly.  Because of our past we get stopped and we get harassed and it's like they're trying to just sink us back into the system...

O'REILLY:  All right.  Do you have a little sign you make to other Chiques?  Do you have a little sign or anything like that?

N. MARTINEZ:  No.

O'REILLY:  Because the judge says your -- you have little signs.  Do you have little signs?

N. MARTINEZ:  No.  We don't go up throwing gang signs.  No, we don't.

O'REILLY:  All right.  Do you wear Dallas Cowboy apparel because you all like the Cowboys for whatever reason?

N. MARTINEZ:  We don't only wear Dallas Cowboys, we can also wear Lakers, Dodgers...

O'REILLY:  All right.  But this Dallas Cowboy apparel is banned because they say that's the gang uniform.

N. MARTINEZ:  Supposedly.

O'REILLY:  Do you both have Dallas Cowboy apparel?

N. MARTINEZ:  I have some.

O. MARTINEZ:  I have some.

O'REILLY:  All right.  See, I'm getting the feeling that this is a gang here, you guys are just putting a happy face on it.  But let's go over to the counselor.  Now counselor you are representing this community at a rate that is not really what you charge.

JOHN HACHMEISTER, ATTORNEY:  Correct.

O'REILLY:  Why did you get involved in this?

HACHMEISTER:  I got involved in it for two reasons.  One, who is next?  Gang injunction, or any type of injunction coming from the police and from the law enforcement side of government, who is next?  Second, I believe in what the president just said recently.  He said, we need to stand up for freedom.  And taking away constitutional rights of people is taking away their freedom.  So that is one of the reasons.  The other reason is I just truly believe that people who are innocent are going to get sucked into this.  And if they get sucked into it, they're going to get hurt and as either Olga or Norma said recently, put into the system.  Once you're in the system it's very difficult to get out, Bill.

O'REILLY:  All right.  So do you think that Bill Parcells is going to walk down in his Cowboy shirt and they're going to throw him in jail?  I don't think so.

HACHMEISTER:  Probably not Bill Parcells, but they train in Oxnard, Bill.  The Dallas Cowboys train there.

O'REILLY:  But look, the ladies are saying it's not a gang, I'm not buying that, and you're not buying it, either.  I mean, we're not buying it, it is a gang.

HACHMEISTER:  There is a criminal element that constitutes the gang, Bill, that's true.  There is no doubt.

O'REILLY:  And since March when this injunction was put into effect there has been a lot less violence in Ventura County.  Come on, Counselor.

HACHMEISTER:  That's not true at all...

O'REILLY:  That's what the D.A. says, there has been no gang activity since we asked for the injunction in late March, no violence.

HACHMEISTER:  Yes, the injunction wasn't put into effect until June.  Now I want to also remind you, one of the things that they wanted the injunction for was because they were concerned about witness intimidation and people who would not come forward and talk about the crime.  If indeed people no longer feel intimidated and they want to talk about the crime and they say that they're a victim, there should be more crime that's been reported.

O'REILLY:  All right.  Well, let us know what happens.  For now the injunction stands.  Ladies, thanks very much.  We appreciate you coming on.

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