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This is a rush transcript from "The Story," April 5, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, ANCHOR: Hello there, John. Good to see you tonight. And good evening, everybody. It is true. I am Martha MacCallum, and this is “The Story.” Thanks for being here tonight.

So today, among other places that you saw him, Joe Biden was also on the street outside his childhood home in Scranton, Pennsylvania. Here he is with a film crew. Which looks like a pretty good indicator that he is, indeed, about to announce that he is running.

A bio video will likely tell the tale of his blue-collar roots. His father who cleaned furnaces for a living and told his son, "The measure of a man is not how often he is knocked down, but how quickly he gets up."

So, Biden has clearly been knocked down a few times this week and the question is will he get up and stay up?

Today, yet another woman came forward to say that in retrospect, this picture, which she once treasured; taken at the 2016 Oscars of the V.P. and her. She is an advocate for sexual assault survivors. Now she says when she looks at it, it gives her, "a sense of shame and belittlement.

Also today, Biden attempted some humor about the whole thing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT: I just want you to know, I had permission to hug Lonnie. I don't know, man.

I don't want you to have to stand all along but, but he's up -- by the way, he gave me permission to touch him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: So, we will talk about how all that went over. And in a Wall Street Journal op-ed, titled, If Biden Runs. Peggy Noonan writes, "Don't do it, Joe, it won't work. It's not going away, it will linger," she writes, "and more will come. Democratic operatives do not fear you will win the nomination. They think you're too old, your time has passed, and you're not where the energy of the base is, or the money.

Karl Rove and Ash Scoud join me in moments. But first, let's go to correspondent David Spunt, covered the story all day and joins us live tonight from Washington. Good evening, David.

DAVID SPUNT, CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Martha, good evening. A lot of surprises from the former vice president today. This was Joe Biden's first public appearance since the accusations of inappropriate touching. He wasted no time addressing it in front of a large crowd. Here, a union crowd he's been speaking in front of unions for years, so, he was on friendly turf.

The crowd laughed and cheered when he gave those hugs on stage. But it was after the event where Biden became more subdued in impromptu gaggle with reporters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: The fact of the matter is I made it clear that if I made anyone feel comfortable, I feel badly about that. It was never my intention, ever, ever, ever.

I'm sorry I didn't understand more. I'm not sorry for any of my intentions, I'm not sorry for anything that I have ever done. I have never been disrespectful intentionally to a man or a woman.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SPUNT: Earlier this week, the former vice president offered up a 2020 tease that in the next month he expects to be talking to people about a lot of issues.

Today, he was just as dodgy though, when pressed on his plans to run for the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: I'm told by the lawyers that I've got to be careful what I say so that I don't start a clock ticking and change my status. But, it is I am very close to making a decision to stand before you all relatively soon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SPUNT: Earlier this morning, President Trump didn't seem concerned when asked about a challenge for Biden. We do know though that Joe Biden says that he is not threatened at all. I asked him about the president's recent taunts. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Well, it doesn't surprise me. He doesn't have time to do his job. But, I look, it's -- everybody knows who Donald Trump is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SPUNT: And the former vice president sounds like he will be a candidate, Martha. It may just be a matter of when. One thing we can tell you for sure, he says that if he does decide to jump in, he wants to be the last candidate to announce. But as you know, a lot of candidates keep continuing to announce.

MACCALLUM: That could be -- that could -- that could be a tough game to play with this crowd. Thank you very much, David.

SPUNT: Sure.

MACCALLUM: Joining me with more, Karl Rove, former senior advisor to President George W. Bush, and Fox News -- and a Fox News contributor. And Ashe Schow, senior editor at The Daily Wire.

Welcome to both of you. Good to have -- to have you here tonight. Karl, can Joe Biden get back up? And today, some interpretations of the laughing stuff was that, that he kind of stepped in it there.

KARL ROVE, CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think that's probably right. I think -- first of all, he was slow, he got attacked on Friday, and it took him really until Wednesday and Thursday to sort of get his act together.

And then, today, you know, maybe you could say that the first throwaway line was funny. But the second one with the child, I don't think -- you know. Your eerie is that where you are on Wednesday and Thursday which is, I get it, I shouldn't be doing this, and I made on people uncomfortable, I didn't intend to do that. I understand norms have changed, and I endeavor to do better, or you don't.

And today seemed like a step back for him.

MACCALLUM: Yes. And, Ashe, you wrote an interesting piece in the Wall Street Journal today. And norms have changed, and Joe Biden, actually is one of the people that began that move to changing those norms, right?

ASHE SCHOW, SENIOR EDITOR, THE DAILY WIRE: Right. I mean, Joe Biden has been on this since the beginning. I mean, it was the Obama administration that had their Department of Education put out new rules, saying, you know, the students on college campuses don't really have due process rights. They supported the affirmative consent movement. That's basically, if you want to touch anyone, really for any reason, you have to ask their permission first.

So, this is just all coming around for Joe Biden. And I really can't feel sorry for him on this. I mean, it's on us campaign, believe women, affirmative consent. These were all things that came up in the Obama administration and Joe Biden was the one that was there at the Oscars. That's there at every awards ceremony, saying, "We need to take this issue seriously. I take this issue seriously."

Meanwhile, we had all these photos and videos of him clearly not taking the issue seriously or, at least, he didn't think it applied to him.

MACCALLUM: Karl, let me ask you about the piece that I mentioned that Peggy Noonan wrote. Because I heard you say earlier today -- you know, it's going to be obviously his own decision.

But, does she make points in there about what's going on in this environment and whether or not he is going to be the guy?

ROVE: Yes, well, she made -- she made some excellent points. Has -- and then a big questions that he's got to face. Is the Democratic Party now moved beyond him, and moved to the left? Is it -- is he past his time? Everybody has an expiration date for their political careers. Is he beyond his expiration date?

What's interesting is we don't hear that about Elizabeth Warren and about Bernie Sanders who are roughly the same age. But, yes, he's -- does he face some issues? You bet he does.

On the other hand, he does bring some strengths. We saw partly today. Strong support among unions. In the polling, he runs number one. He has a seven-point lead in the real clear politics average and runs well among less liberal and moderate Democrats. And does exceedingly well against -- among African-American Democrats.

44 percent in the recent Quinnipiac Poll of African-American Democrats support him. So, you can chart a path to victory for him. But in this election, more than probable any in our lifetime, the day by day performance of candidates is going to matter in determining the outcome.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

ROVE: And today, I don't think Joe Biden had a particularly good day. Yesterday, good. Day before, good. Not good until last Friday. But today, he should have been -- he should have kept on the track he was on yesterday.

MACCALLUM: So, last night, Bret Baier and I sat down with Howard Schultz. And on the 15th of April, on Tax Day, ironically. We will sit down with Bernie Sanders who says that he is going to disclose 10 years of his tax records. But he was also asked about why he was -- why he had decided to come on Fox News, Ashe. Let's watch that sound bite and I want to get your thoughts on that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TREVOR NOAH, HOST, THE DAILY SHOW, COMEDY CENTRAL: Are we going to see your tax returns.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, I-VT: You'll sure. And look, April 15th is coming. That will be the 10th year, and we will make them all public very shortly.

NOAH: What's all -- what's all? Just so people know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: All right. Let's also play the one where he talks about Fox News, go.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NOAH: Are we going to see a tax returns?

SANDERS: You'll sure. And look, April 15th is coming. That will be the 10th year, and we will make them all public very shortly.

NOAH: What's all -- what's all? Just so people know.

SANDERS: 10 years.

NOAH: 10 years of --

SANDERS: And by the way, I'm delighted to do that, proud to do that, hey, Mr. Trump, you do the same thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: So, he is going to get his taxes out there. He wants Mr. Trump to do the same thing. And he says that he thinks that it's important to reach out to Fox News viewers because there is a lot of them. Ashe and then Karl.

SCHOW: Well, I mean, that is a good thing. I mean, a lot of other candidates, you know, the DNC doesn't even want to have a debate on Fox News. And so, Bernie trying to reach out. Will he be able to actually pick off any? I'm not sure. And I honestly don't think so. Because in 2016, had the DNC not kept Bernie from being the nominee. He might have been able to beat Trump.

But now, people who may have been Bernie supporters such as working-class Americans, even union people. They've now had -- you know, three years of Trump. They will have had four years of Trump. They've got the tax cuts, they've manufacturing jobs coming back.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

SCHOW: Meanwhile, Bernie is out there with the Green New Deal, which would destroy all of that. And saying he wants to raise everybody's taxes. So, I don't think he is going to be able to get them back.

MACCALLUM: All right. Karl, last thought.

ROVE: Smart of him to come onto Fox. His comment was sort of mystifying though. He praised Bret Baier for his journalistic prowess. And then said he was able to differentiate between Fox News and Fox News viewers.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

ROVE: And I didn't know which one he was thinking was good, and which one he was thinking bad? And then, he went on to say, basically, Fox News viewers were sold a bill of goods by Trump and his message is, you've been screwed.

So, a little bit weird response to it. But he's smart to come on. There are a lot of people who watch Fox, who'd like politics and are open-minded to both sides, and smart of him to do so.

MACCALLUM: I think it's going to be great. It can be interesting there. Karl Rove, thank you very much. Good to have you here. Ashe Schow, thank you as well.

ROVE: You bet.

MACCALLUM: Coming up next is Matt Gaetz, one of the president's most loyal supporters in Congress, looking for a new job? You'll hear it here first.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: So, as the Attorney General defense his summary of the Mueller report, the Democrats keep digging, finding new ways to increase their scrutiny on President Trump. This time, they are targeting his bank records in a move that some Republicans have slammed as a fishing expedition. We're now learning that last month three top House leaders Elijah Cummings, Maxine Waters, and Adam Schiff requested documents from Capital One Bank related to the President's business holdings.

Capital One responded that they are preserving the records but that "Given the confidentiality obligations that we have as a financial institution including under state and federal law, we respectfully request that any production of materials be made pursuant to a subpoena rather than an informal request.

Here in our Democratic Congressman Harley Rouda of California, a Member of the House Oversight Committee. Good to have you here, sir. Thank you for being here tonight. I mean that --

REP. HARLEY ROUDA, D-CALIF.: Good evening.

MACCALLUM: -- that sounds like it makes sense that response from Capital One doesn't it?

ROUDA: I think that's a reasonable response but it's part of the ongoing investigation.

MACCALLUM: I mean I think most people would expect that their bank would not turn over their personal financial records even if they are President of the United States just because someone requests it from Congress. I mean you would think they would be well aware of that, that you'd have to have a subpoena to get that kind of information.

ROUDA: And that's -- you're right. We need to use subpoena power if those are the records that we want to bring into the investigation.

MACCALLUM: So what do you say about that you know the suggestion that this is a fishing expedition? That the Mueller report didn't go the way that Democrats wanted it to go so now it's you know, let's move directly to Plan B. We've got a whole list of investigations we want to do and we're just going to keep doing them. Is that the plan?

ROUDA: Well, first of all I think that's a false narrative because we have not seen the Mueller report. The Attorney General has seen the Mueller report and issued a four-page memorandum.

MACCALLUM: Correct.

ROUDA: Keep in mind that the House of Representatives unanimously passed a resolution demanding that the report unredacted be delivered to Congress and also be delivered to the public with only classified information being redacted so we have yet to see it. And nowhere in that letter --

MACCALLUM: Let me ask you this because the Attorney General Bill Barr said right away after he issued that report, the initial principal conclusions, summary, he said it's going to take me you know, about two weeks or less to get this ready and then everybody just jumped all over him. You know, no that's not going to work. That doesn't work for us. We want it with absolutely no redactions.

I mean, why not just wait? As you say, why not just wait until it comes and then see what you get. And if you don't get everything you want, then you go to the next level.

ROUDA: Well, let's understand that we have committees within Congress who deal with classified information every single day for the protection of our country.

MACCALLUM: Sure.

ROUDA: They're quite capable of reading this memorandum and report without having the Attorney General redact it. Could you imagine if Janet Reno had withheld the report under Starr's investigation of President Clinton and decided to redact it?

MACCALLUM: Those were different rules though. The rules changed after that. And now the rules are much more strict in terms of what can be released from these kinds of special counsel investigations. So you know, the Department of Justice --

ROUDA: To the public, yes, but not Congress.

MACCALLUM: -- says that we are going -- you know we're going by the rules. And as soon -- and also from what we understand Robert Mueller and attorney general -- Deputy Attorney General Rosenstein are also very closely involved in this whole process of getting this document ready to turn it over and it's only really a matter of days. It's like another six or seven days according to their calendar.

ROUDA: Your question would be what?

MACCALLUM: My question is, why is that not OK? You know what -- even James Comey said look, everyone take a deep breath. Let's wait till we see it and then we can figure out whether or not you know, it's -- we're not happy with the way it was prepared.

ROUDA: Well, the rules you mentioned apply to dissemination of the report to the public, again not to Congress. Congress deals with classified information every single day. There's no reason to hold up this report for one millisecond and delivering it to the certain committees that are requesting it and deal with this information on an ongoing basis.

In addition, we know that Mueller already in in giving the report had positioned the report with information that could be immediately disseminated because he had already taken the trouble to redact it.

MACCALLUM: Well, he's the integral part of this process as we understand it of releasing it now. So I mean, you know unless we know they're not on the same page, you know, it seems like we would want to give them the benefit of the doubt that they are on the same page until the report is released and then if you know, if people aren't satisfied, then there's obviously there's recourse there so we'll see what --

ROUDA: Well, for me I guess the question is what is the Attorney General afraid of that the public might learn by providing this report unredacted to Congress to committees who deal with confidential information on a regular basis? What are they trying to hide?

MACCALLUM: Well, from what they said, the only thing they're afraid of is following the laws,

ROUDA: That's (INAUDIBLE) delivered to the public.

MACCALLUM: They just said there's -- there are measures that have to be taken and they're taking those measures and then they're going to release it. So I think they're not afraid of anything other than making sure that they follow the procedure that needs to be followed.

ROUDA: And again, I would point that applies to the public not to the Committees of Congress.

MACCALLUM: All right. Well hopefully you'll get it soon and we'll see what -- you know, we'll see how you feel about it when you do and I hope you'll come back and talk about it some more. Representative Harley Rouda, thank you so much.

ROUDA: Absolutely.

MACCALLUM: Good to see you tonight, sir.

ROUDA: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: Important process. So here now with more, Republican Congressman Matt Gaetz of Florida, a member of the Judiciary Committee. Congressman, good to see you tonight. You know, what what's your response to that.

REP. MATT GAETZ, R-FLA.: Good to see you.

MACCALLUM: He's saying -- you heard the congressman. He said that Congress can -- they can handle it. You know, they look at a lot of classified documents and they can be trusted with it and it should be turned over right away. There were summaries at the beginning of each section apparently and you heard what he said.

GAETZ: Even the summaries oftentimes referenced grand jury information based on reporting I've seen. But the macro problem is that Democrats are dealing with the consequences of their own eroding credibility.

How can Democrats say that we just need members of Congress to be able to look at intelligence and information and then cast their opinions or views on it when for the last 22 months, Adam Schiff and other Democrats have been saying that they had actual evidence, that they had cold hard evidence of collusion and there is no dispute, Martha, as to the conclusion of the Mueller report, that there was no criminal conspiracy between the Trump campaign and Russia.

MACCALLUM: Well, there -- I mean, you've seen the reporting in the Washington Post and The New York Times. Both papers reporting that there were strongly differing opinions according to their reporting about --

GAETZ: But that's on obstruction. Right, but that's on obstruction.

MACCALLUM: -- about the findings on the report.

GAETZ: Yes. I've looked at that reporting carefully, Martha, and it seems to suggest that there were members of the Mueller team that believed that the question about obstruction of justice should have been left up to Congress rather than the Attorney General. That's no surprise to me because the because Mr. Mueller populated his team with people who had worked for the Clinton Foundation, were partisan supporters of Hillary Clinton's campaign. and so it would be likely to have a difference of opinion.

But there is no reporting or no evidence of any difference of opinion as to the principal question of collusion with Russia. And you know even the member of Congress you just had on, Mr. Rouda, he said that when Republicans stood up for the State of the Union and applauded the President, that we were literally applauding collusion.

So I think there's a lot of crow for Democrats to eat and it's a tough time for them to have to make the argument that if you just give everything to Congress, the American people can trust Congress because it was Democratic members of Congress that weren't telling the truth.

MACCALLUM: Let me -- let me ask you. They -- take a look at the RCP average of the president's job approval numbers which really have not changed throughout the course of all of this. Quick thought on that and then I got one more for you.

GAETZ: I think a lot of the Mueller stuff was baked in. I think that the president's supporters weren't -- his opponents held similar views. But I expect that as we have more bandwidth to discuss things other than the Trump-Russia story that we will be able to talk more about an economy that's improving and helping American.

MACCALLUM: All right. I got to go. So ten seconds and you know what the question is I would imagine because it's all over everywhere that you're going to run for Senate in Alabama. You're from Florida. Are you going to do that?

GAETZ: Well, I share about a hundred miles of border with my district in Alabama. I expect I'll be on both sides of that border in the 2020 election to defeat Doug Jones and help the President. But right now I have no plans to do anything other than seek reelection to the Congress. But we certainly need to beat Doug Jones and I hope we get a good candidate to do that and I'll be there to help the president whatever he asks.

MACCALLUM: Congressman, thank you. Good to have you back.

GAETZ: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: So coming up next, one-on-one with the president and what he plans to do about the crisis on the border. Griff Jenkins just spoke to him coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT: I will tell you, we're going to shut it down if we have to. We're going to tariffs the cars coming in that they make in Mexico if we have to.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: President Trump touring the U.S. border late today renewing his vow to shut it down if Mexico doesn't continue its "very good effort he said, to control the situation down there." Just moments ago the President spoke to Fox's Griff Jenkins in an interview that will air tomorrow morning on Fox and Friends. Watch some of this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFF JENKINS, PRODUCER: Mr. President, is it time to call for a summit between yourself, the president Mexico, the presidents of Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador?

TRUMP: No. I don't need a summit. I think we've done very well without the summit. They understand. We stopped to a saving $550 million dollars and I respectfully told and I thank him very much because for the last four days it's been great. You see that whole stream is drying up. They could stop them at their southern border, their southern border.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Kristen Fisher live in Calexico, California with more tonight. Hi, Kristen!

KRISTIN FISHER, PRESENTER: Hi, Martha! Well, President Trump actually came here today to see this newly built wall for himself. Planning for it actually started under the Obama administration but it was funded and built during the Trump administration. And this is the kind of wall the President Trump would like to see across most of the southern border.

Now, this stretch is just about two miles long but President Trump announced today that he expects to have 400 miles in two years. That's despite a new lawsuit from 20 states led by California challenging his national emergency declaration to fund it.

Speaking today to Border Patrol and Immigration officials, the President noted a 400 percent increase in the apprehensions of family units here in the El Centro border sector from January and February of this year to the same time last year. And his critics say it's a sign that his hardline immigration policies aren't working. But the President argues that that's exactly why those policies are needed now more than ever.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: And this is our new statement. The system is full. We can't take you anymore whether it's asylum, whether it's anything you want, it's -- illegal immigration, we can't take you anymore. We can't take you --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FISHER: Now this new section of the border wall actually replaces an older much smaller section right behind it. It's tough to see but you can see it's much shorter than the 30-foot high new wall right in front of it. And the border patrol chief in the El Centro sector says that this new wall is really making a big difference.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GLORIA CHAVEZ, CBP CHIEF, EL CENTRO SECTOR: For us it's a huge advantage to see what's on the other side because, before, with the old landing mat, we could not see the adversary. We couldn't see the threat that was on that side. We would get rocks constantly. We would get items thrown at us every day. With this 30-foot wall we haven't had those type of incidents.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FISHER: And she says that those types of assaults on her border patrol agents have dropped 65 percent in this two-mile stretch since this new wall was built. Martha?

MACCALLUM: Kristin Fisher, thank you. So, joining me now, Republican Congressman Andy Biggs, co-chair of the House border security caucus, and Enrique Acevedo, anchor and correspondent for Univision. Welcome, gentlemen. Good to have both of you with us tonight.

REP. ANDY BIGGS, R-ARIZ.: Thanks, Martha.

MACCALLUM: You know, just listening to the woman with the Customs and Border Patrol, Enrique, describing that, you know, they had rocks getting thrown at their agents. She said this is so much better having the wall that they can see through because they can see what's coming at them from the other side and it helps, you know, keeps them safer in their job. Are you, you know, that sounds like a good thing, right?

ENRIQUE ACEVEDO, ANCHOR, UNIVISION: Well, it's always a good thing where we can keep border patrol agents, federal agents safer. I would just ask you, Martha, is it worth $25 billion to keep people 100, 200, 300 yards away from the border to throwing rocks at agents on the other side when you just do this. Is that worth $25 billion?

MACCALLUM: So, they should just dodge, they should dodge the rocks? You think they should just dodge the rocks.

ACEVEDO: No, I'm not saying that. Is it worth $25 billion to do that or we can invest that money in just smarter ways? I think we can.

MACCALLUM: Well, today, look at this video. I just want everyone at home to see this. And I don't know if you guys can see this. This is a family in Yuma, Arizona, risking, I mean, they are going under the fence to get across this body of water. I'm not sure if this is Rio Grande in this spot or not and then they're climbing up the other side.

And the other piece of video, and Congressman Biggs, you know, I know you've seen this firsthand, I mean, these people are climbing through a tunnel of barbed wire coming out of the dirt on the other side of a fence. It's terrifying to watch them in these situations. And obviously this is just -- this doesn't work. This is dangerous, Congressman Biggs.

BIGGS: Yes, the reality is it's a humanitarian crisis as much as anything else. And I think all of our hearts go to these people who want to come here so badly but they are not doing it the right way. They are trying to intersect themselves -- put themselves ahead of other people who have been waiting in line literally years to get in here.

But the problem that we face is if you don't build the wall and you don't change asylum laws and some of the other issues that we have. We will continue to be overrun because we will not have put the deterrent in effect. And that's the problem. Is, we are incentivizing people to come here. And as long as we incentivize people to come here, they will come --

ACEVEDO: No, sir.

BIGGS: And look, we are going to catch about a million, a little over a million probably this year and that would be the most in decades.

MACCALLUM: Well, it's obviously it's not working as I said, you know.

BIGGS: Yes.

MACCALLUM: When you watch these people climbing through this barbed wire fence it's heartbreaking. You can just imagine your own family being in that situation. It must be absolutely terrifying for them as they make this journey, Enrique. And as you heard the president say, you know, we're full. I mean, it doesn't work.

There is no -- they can't even cover the number of people who are coming in terms of housing and taking care of all of them once they get here so something has to, you know, stop the migration at this moment until they can figure this whole thing out.

ACEVEDO: I agree with you, Martha. I agree with Congressman Biggs. I think something has to be done. What do we do? That's where we disagree. Do we build a wall? That's the most expensive, least effective way to deal with this. Do we shut down the border? That's not going to work. Do we cut aid to the countries where these migrants are coming from? How is that going to stop them from fleeing their country.

MACCALLUM: Well, they're talking about technology in many places here, moving more people to areas where that need it and also walls. So, what do you have as a better solution than that?

ACEVEDO: Well, if you look at that during the last week, we have, you know, doubled and tripled the waiting time for commerce, for trade, for legal immigrants to come to the U.S. and go into Mexico. So that's not working either.

I mean, by doing that we have actually made things worse at the border. We have, you know, we want to incentivize legal exchanges between both countries and by doing what we have done during the last week it has only made things worse.

MACCALLUM: All right. I know -- these are the president has anti-immigrant policies. Mr. Biggs, I'm going to give you the final word here. I just got a couple seconds left.

BIGGS: Yes. I would just say that where we have put up fences and I think of the Tijuana, San Diego entry we saw crime rates go down 90 percent, we saw crossings deteriorate by about 90 percent as well.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

BIGGS: That's worked. Everywhere we've done it.

MACCALLUM: Thank you very much, Congressman Biggs, Enrique Acevedo.

ACEVEDO: Thank you, Martha.

BIGGS: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: Coming up next, a chilling account of the moments that led up to the murder of this young college student next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: Chilling words from the boyfriend of the South Carolina college student who was murdered after she got into the wrong car. Samantha Josephson's boyfriend says that he was tracking what was supposed to be her Uber ride.

Trace Gallagher live in our West Coast newsroom with the details on this tonight. Trace?

TRACE GALLAGHER, CORRESPONDENT: Martha, Samantha Josephson was at Colombia, South Carolina bar when friends -- with friends and when they got separated, she ordered the Uber and as you say got into the wrong car. And now we are learning her boyfriend knew where she was. Listen to him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GREG CORBISHLEY, SAMANTHA JOSEPHSON'S BOYFRIEND: She was the love of my life. And I was on the phone tracking her through all this just to make sure she got home safely. And immediately knew that there was something that was wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: But there was nothing he could do because he was two and a half hours away in Charleston. It's unclear if or when he tried to call Samantha, but she wasn't reported missing until the next day when she failed to come home and her roommates called police.

Just as the missing person's report was being filed, some hunters found Josephson's body in a wooded area. She died of multiple sharp force injuries. In other words, she had been stabbed to death. Hours later 24- year-old Nathaniel Rowland was arrested for killing her. Police found his - - her blood in his backseat and trunk along with her cell phone and investigators say the child safety locks were activated, meaning that she was likely trapped in the back seat. But now the suspect's parents say he didn't do it. Look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HENRY ROWLAND, NATHANIEL ROWLAND'S FATHER: Nate passed out at a house party. He checked his pockets, when he woke up. He checked his pockets. He didn't have his keys. So, he walked outside to try to find his vehicle. He found the vehicle, opened the door, seen his keys and seen all the blood inside the vehicle.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: Clearly police do not believe any of that story. Rowland has not yet entered a plea and is being held without bail. His first court appearance is April 22nd. Samantha Josephson was laid to rest in her state of New Jersey on Wednesday. And Uber is now launching ride awareness campaign on social media trying to educate people on how to make sure whether they are getting into the right vehicles. Martha?

MACCALLUM: What a tragic story, unbelievable. Trace, thank you very much.

GALLAGHER: Yes.

MACCALLUM: OK. Coming up next here. An explosive new book about what actually goes on behind the scenes at The View.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELISABETH HASSELBECK, FORMER FOX NEWS CO-HOST: I take full responsibility for my language. I even said it. I think I was so frustrated I was like, I don't swear and I'm swearing and you know, expletives came. I'm not proud of that. I actually feel terrible that it shows my level of frustration.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: That was Elisabeth Hasselbeck remembering a tough day at The View when she threatened to walk out in a battle with Barbara Walters from a new book called "Ladies Who Punch" the exclusive inside story of The View.

Here now Ramin Setoodeh, who is the author of the book and New York bureau chief of for Variety. You've written for the Wall Street Journal and lots of places. And you've spent a lot of time digging into what goes in behind the scenes at The View.

And I want to ask you about why did you that first. But let's just play the moment that preceded them getting into this battle. I want to get your reaction. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HASSELBECK: I heard everything you said, I just -- I'm emphatic with.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Like I really started (Ph).

BARBARA WALTERS, HOST, ABC NEWS: There has to be a wave discussing this without --

(CROSSTALK)

HASSELBECK: There are, but --

WALTERS: Compassion. But we have to go on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: They're talking about the morning after pill, right?

RAMIN SETOODEH, NEW YORK BUREAU CHIEF, VARIETY: They are talking about the morning after pill. This was in 2006 and things got so heated that day that Barbara had to cut Elisabeth off and Elisabeth was so furious at Barbara she ran back stage and announced that she was leaving The View in the middle of the show. She was done. She wasn't going to come back.

And there was pandemonium back stage and the former executive producer Bill Geddie had to run downstairs into her dressing room with about three minutes left before they went back on --

MACCALLUM: My gosh.

SETOODEH: -- and get her to come back on live television with only seconds remaining.

MACCALLUM: I'm just laughing because I'm thinking how many times did Bill Geddie have to run down the stairs and run into somebody's dressing room and say, please come back on the show, right?

SETOODEH: An unseen her of The View. Yes.

MACCALLUM: Absolutely, he is. So, everybody is afraid of Barbara, basically. I mean, that's one of the takeaways from your book.

SETOODEH: She is a legendary journalist.

MACCALLUM: Absolutely.

SETOODEH: She is a trailblazer. I wanted to write this book because The View has changed so much of television. It allowed for women to talk about politics during the day but also Barbara Walters could be very scary. She expected a lot. She demanded a lot. She was intimidating. She worked so hard to get to where she was that she didn't give anyone any sort of space to mess up.

MACCALLUM: Yes. That was my -- I did The View a couple of times when they were -- you know, this is so long ago. I was always so impressed with her work ethic and how much she cared about the show and I think that's part of where that comes from.

SETOODEH: Were you scared?

MACCALLUM: I was terrified. My gosh, yes, it's a very intimidating environment. What fascinated you so much about this show and the dynamic. Because all these players have changed really, except for Barbara and Joy. I mean, Joy has been there forever.

SETOODEH: I think it really paved the way in our culture for so much of what we see now given sort of reality TV when The View started in 1997.

MACCALLUM: True.

SETOODEH: Women weren't sort of on television being friends but then also kind of frenemies. Women weren't talking about their opinions during the day. There was, you know, there was no place really in daytime TV where people could discuss politics --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: Yes, it's a good point.

SETOODEH: -- and also journalists.

MACCALLUM: It's either like hard news or total fluff. And this was, you know, somewhere in between. Joy calls out Rosie. Let's take a look what she had to say. I think this is a full screen quote, right, guys?

So, she said "It was completely different show." She's talking about when Rosie bullied her. "It became a lot about Rosie O'Donnell. She had a very dominant personality. Basically, it became like Hurricane Katrina and she did change the show and I wasn't crazy about it." You could hear Joy saying that.

SETOODEH: She was, when Rosie started on the show in 2006, she had had her own talk shows that was very successful. She came in, she wanted everything to be produced a certain way. She wanted to do musical numbers. She wanted to do Broadway.

Joy told me she doesn't know how to dance so she said she felt like she was being bulled and she didn't like listening to all these directions from Rosie O'Donnell. It was hard for a lot of the co-hosts and staff when Rosie was on the show.

MACCALLUM: How does everyone get along now with the new group?

SETOODEH: The new group gets along, I think for the most part. The ratings are up. I think having Meghan McCain and Abby Huntsman at the table. This is the first time really that you have two conservative personalities on The View.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

SETOODEH: And there's a lot to talk about with the Trump administration. And I think the show has found new relevance right now in this era.

MACCALLUM: Yes, I think so, too. Thank you so much, Ramin. Good to see you.

SETOODEH: Thank you very much for having me.

MACCALLUM: Congratulations on the book.

SETOODEH: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: So, coming up next, inside a multi-billion-dollar divorce and look at what is ahead for the former Mrs. Jeff Bezos. Our lady's night panel Lisa Boothe, Carley Shimkus, Jessica Tarlov, coming up, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: It is time for lady's night. Tonight, the most expensive divorce in history is now finalized. Jeff and MacKenzie Bezos agreeing to a settlement set to make her the world's fourth richest woman.

MacKenzie tweeted this. "Grateful to have finished the process of dissolving my marriage with Jeff with support from each other and looking forward to the next phase as co-parents and friends." She goes on to say, "Happy to be giving him my interest in the Washington Post and Blue Origin and 75 percent of our Amazon stock plus my voting control of my shares."

But reports suggest that she could have fought for twice as much.

Here now Lisa Boothe, Carley Shimkus, and Jessica Tarlov.

First of all, it's just like the whole language of divorce has changed so much, you know.

JESSICA TARLOV, CONTRIBUTOR: Yes.

MACCALLUM: I mean, look at what Jeff Bezos said. He said "I'm so grateful to MacKenzie for her support and her kindness." And then he finishes up by saying, "As our futures unroll, I know I will always be learning from her." I'm thinking why don't you just get back together?

LISA BOOTHE, CONTRIBUTOR: I know.

MACCALLUM: I mean, it seems like you guys might be able to work this out?

BOOTHE: So here is -- I've been thinking about this a lot. Because my first instinct would be like hell hath no fury like a woman scorned because he cheated on her like scorched earth, you know, like, it's messed up, right?

But then you take a step back and it actually makes business sense to try ease investors --

MACCALLUM: Absolutely.

BOOTHE: -- by making sure that they're still going to be that continuity at Amazon that Jeff Bezos is still going to be at the helm and he is going to have voting control over their, you know, voting control over their shares and she still gets 4 percent of Amazon. So, she is going to make, you know, about $36 billion from this, fourth richest woman.

CARLEY SHIMKUS, REPORTER: Yes.

BOOTHE: So, it actually makes --

MACCALLUM: She will never ever want for anything the rest of her life. There is no doubt about it. But I remember when divorces looked like this. Look at these two in front of the New York Post.

BOOTHE: Sure.

MACCALLUM: And you know, this was like a catfight and it went on for months.

SHIMKUS: Yes.

MACCALLUM: And it was like, you know, but now (Inaudible) just like consciously uncoupling, Carley.

SHIMKUS: Well, divorce still look like that. I think that this is just an exception to the rule. But I had the same exact reaction as you were when I read both of their tweets, I said, my gosh, maybe it's the naive part of me. But it still feels like there is love there, and you sort of do you want them to get back together.

The most interesting thing that she said though, was in her announcement tweet was, that she's excited for her own plans now. What is she going to do with all this money? She is not a stupid lady.

MACCALLUM: It's a good question.

SHIMKUS: She is very smart.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

SHIMKUS: Jeff Bezos has credited her with a lot of the success of the company that she is going to put it into innovation, the humanities, maybe a little both start a company of her own, who knows?

MACCALLUM: All right. Speaking of moving on I want to show this moment from Kathie Lee who is ending her 11-year run with Hoda Kotb and here is a moment from that today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATHIE LEE, HOST, NBC: Jeremiah 29 says, "I know the plans I have you" declares the lord, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you a future and a hope. That's not just true for me and you guys. That's true for everybody watching. Trust him. Let him love you like he wants to love you, like I'm loved by all of you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: I love Kathie Lee.

BOOTHE: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: I mean, she's been around -- she's been around our whole lives.

TARLOV: She absolutely has.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

TARLOV: When you see Regis send in a tape.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

TARLOV: Howard Stern even sucked it up and sent her roses. They had a little thing. I love the calculation of how many glasses of wine had been poured 5300 through the reign. And her kids being there --

SHIMKUS: Yes.

TARLOV: -- or her son in person -- her daughter couldn't be there. But talking about also how important she was to their father who would watch every day and the first thing he would say was man, she is so pretty.

MACCALLUM: Yes. It really was touching.

SHIMKUS: Which made me cry when -- yes.

MACCALLUM: And I'm always impressed with people who can, you know, quote the bible like that. I have to look it up.

BOOTHE: I also think, you know, as you know, you know, we're all told television authenticity is key.

TARLOV: Yes.

BOOTHE: Right? People need to know who you are. You need to be yourself. And I think that's why people are so drawn to Kathie Lee because she is so raw, she's so vulnerable --

MACCALLUM: So true.

BOOTHE: -- she's so honest with everything she's gone through --

MACCALLUM: Yes.

BOOTHE: -- with her husband cheating on her and then the loss of him and the pain that she felt with that. So I think that's why people are so drawn to her because she is just so real and raw and vulnerable and you feel like you know her.

MACCALLUM: That's true.

SHIMKUS: And it's so rare to talk about your faith in such an open way and she's done that for so long. And it is so authentic coming from her. And such a cherry on top of the cake of such a successful career --

TARLOV: Yes.

SHIMKUS: -- to not only share her faith but then also spread the word of God which is something the bible talks about a lot. And for that to be her final message on her final TV show is so beautiful.

MACCALLUM: Yes. I totally agree. I think she has just made such a big contribution with, you know, some things just go over the top. But she always just kind of feels just about right. You know what I mean? In terms of her authenticity as you say and her ability to share her stories over the years.

I mean, I remember both of the -- the birth of both of her children and all of that and Frank, you know, and what happened with that she just has, you know, found a way to connect with people in such a strong way. Quickly, as someone who is trying to collect Charlize Theron. She's looking for a boyfriend, guys. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLIZE THERON, ACTRESS: I've been single for 10 years. It's not a long shot. Somebody needs to grow a pair and step up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She's shockingly available.

THERON: I'm shockingly available.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOOTHE: She couldn't find any --

(CROSSTALK)

TARLOV: Like I'll do it.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

SHIMKUS: That is surprising.

BOOTHE: If she can't find anyone is there any hope for anyone else --

(CROSSTALK)

TARLOV: Well, I think --

MACCALLUM: Jessica.

TARLOV: She can definitely find people. I thought it was funny how she said I've been single for 10 years, and in that period she was with Sean Penn. But we're just --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: Moving right along. I bet she was going to have a date by out end of the weekend. Thank you, guys.

TARLOV: Yes, seriously.

SHIMKUS: Some guys are going to step up.

BOOTHE: Grow a pair.

SHIMKUS: She has.

MACCALLUM: So that's “The Story” on this Friday night have. Have a great weekend, everybody. We will see you back here on Monday night at seven. "Tucker Carlson" is up next.

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