This partial transcript from Hannity & Colmes, August 24, 2001 was provided by the Federal Document Clearing House.
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HANNITY: As we continue on HANNITY & COLMES, also coming up, Fox News political analyst Dick Morris will give us his take on the Condit interview.
We continue now with Shawn Chapman, Barry Farber, and Pat Ireland. And, also, we're going to be joined by Lucille Mahia in just a minute.
Barry, I want to go -- I think this is going to be the unraveling of Gary Condit, inasmuch as I've been pointing out he accused everybody of lying. These people have other -- they're going to -- they have another side of the story to tell.
When they tell it and one after the other can prove that they are telling the truth, he now has a significant credibility problem, and then it raises suspicions about, "Well, if you lied about this, what else are you lying about?"
FARBER: Right, and then...
CHAPMAN: Everybody lies about this.
HANNITY: Excuse me, Shawn. Hang on. That was for Barry.
FARBER: And -- well, what I can't understand understand -- you know, there are a lot of Broadway shows. They do $25 million. Couldn't they see it coming? Aren't there play doctors and~ experts? Couldn't somebody have told him, "Gary, you can't go there."
HANNITY: "You can't do this."
FARBER: No. I don't understand.
HANNITY: But, Barry, what is so outrageous about this -- there was a play book. He had predetermined answers for a lot of questions. And yet nobody -- I guess his attorney allowed him to -- to go ahead and say these things about these other women.
FARBER: Yeah. But after Gephardt, how long will the other Democrats last?
HANNITY: It won't be long.
FARBER: But it was interesting in the last segment you talked about Gephardt's dumping Condit but sticking beside Clinton. Reminds me of that old barnyard story.
The hen goes to the pig and says, "You know, we got the best farmer in the world. Let's give him a ham-and-egg breakfast. I'll give him the eggs. You give him the ham." Pig says, "Look, for you, that's a
contribution. For me, that's a major commitment."
You know, they could do without Condit but not without Clinton.
HANNITY: And that's my point, Pat Ireland, and I -- look, you and I have battled this many, many times. I felt that the National Organization for Women, feminists across America were all too willing to accept Bill Clinton's sins, including the allowing his surrogates to go out there and trash the women that spoke out against him, and they allowed this to go on...
IRELAND: Well, now you know...
HANNITY: ... because of his political agenda.
IRELAND: You know -- you know that I spoke out against that nuts-or-sluts defense many times very loudly. The press statements are still out there.
HANNITY: Isn't Bill Clinton a bad guy because of that?
IRELAND: I think Bill Clinton behaved indefensibly. He, unlike other -- unlike Gary Condit, for instance, was a better communicator. But the other difference is that he did have an overwhelming support for his performance as president. Gary Condit doesn't have that with his own constituency.
HANNITY: So, as long as he supports the right issues on abortion, on other issues...
IRELAND: No, no. No, no, no. I'm talking about the majority of the country. But the other thing to look at, if you want to go that way, Sean, is...
HANNITY: And he also the power.
IRELAND: ... that -- remember we didn't go after Gingrich, and he's now on his third wife. We didn't go after Livingston.
HANNITY: It's not the same thing. These are interns.
IRELAND: We didn't go after Henry Hyde and, in fact, Henry Hyde...
HANNITY: But Newt Gingrich didn't send his surrogates out to say...
IRELAND: Well, wait just a...
HANNITY: ... "Drag a hundred bucks through a trailer park"...
IRELAND: And I condemned that. And I still condemn it. I think it was indefensible. I think it was despicable. What -- I thought it was a different question then whether you overturn the 1992 elections.
COLMES: Right. By the way...
IRELAND: I think, in Condit's case, we're going to have to see what his constituency does because I don't think the man has enough sense of reality to resign.
COLMES: All right. I would like to argue with Barry in a moment about this -- making a -- you know, Clintonizing this conversation. But, before we do, we want to welcome Lucille Mahia.
Lucille, you are a Condit supporter. Is that correct?
LUCILLE MAHIA, CONDIT SUPPORTER: Yes, that's true.
COLMES: Even after last night's speech?
MAHIA: You bet.
MAHIA: I just believe in the man.
MAHIA: He's been my Congressman for many years. I know what he can do.
COLMES: All right. You know what he can do, but it sounds to me like you would not approach this with an open mind. You had your mind made up. There's nothing Gary Condit could say or not say that's going to change your mind. Is that right?
MAHIA: No. No. I'm saying that I know the man. I live in the 18th district. I know him. I know what he does for us. And I take offense to someone trying to put words into my mouth.
COLMES: But we have a missing woman here. It's clear that he's not been candid with the Levy family. He has not shown much concern...
COLMES: ... for the levy family. As Barry Farber said, his noes were weak. There was no passion or compassion in his answers to Connie Chung last night. It sounds to me like you didn't hear any of that because maybe you didn't want to because you are -- you've decided where you stand about this.
MAHIA: No, I did. I sat there, and I watched that. I saw that he was having some difficulty. I understand. I would have the same difficulty there is. I can -- I can truly feel for that.
You know, I'm sorry for the Levy family, but I -- I truly believe that my congressman had absolutely nothing to do with her disappearance.
FARBER: Lucille, what would it take to shake your faith in Gary Condit?
COLMES: Did you hear...
MAHIA: He would have to...
COLMES: ... that question, Lucille?
MAHIA: He would have to pick up the phone and say, "Lucille, I appreciate the fact that you have, you know, supported me for all these years, that you've walked precincts for me, that you've worked on phone banks. I appreciate that, but, Lucille, I have something to tell you."
MAHIA: Only if Congressman Condit says, "Lucille, I have lied to you," then...
MAHIA: ... then it will change. But, until then, I am going to have an allegiance to Congressman Condit.
HANNITY: Lucille, to believe Gary Condit last night, you have to believe that Anne Marie Smith's a liar, that Linda Zamsky's a liar, that Mrs. Levy has a bad memory or was lying, that investigators are lying, that everybody is lying, and he's the only one telling the truth. Now there comes a point where it just becomes absurd for you to take that position.
MAHIA: No. No, it doesn't.
HANNITY: Yes, it does. Yes, it does.
HANNITY: Listen -- let -- let me...
MAHIA: Do I have -- do I have a chance now?
HANNITY: Lucille, he had an affair with Chandra Levy. I hate to break the news to you. And he wasn't -- he wasn't willing to be forthcoming last night. And he did this dance. And you're accepting this
behavior from this guy. And -- and he could...
MAHIA: OK. And...
HANNITY: ... have helped in an investigation and find her, and he didn't help.
MAHIA: When do I get my chance to speak?
HANNITY: Right now. Go.
MAHIA: OK. Thank you. With -- with -- is her name Rose Marie or Anna Marie Smith?
COLMES: Anna Marie Smith. Anne Marie Smith.
MAHIA: I can -- you know, what an opportunist. I mean, she should truly be embarrassed for -- for what she's done.
HANNITY: Oh! She told the truth.
MAHIA: No, but she should truly be embarrassed. I mean, I don't know...
HANNITY: What about him being embarrassed?
MAHIA: ... how old she is, but I bet you her family is sitting in embarrassment saying, "How could she go on national TV and tell people"...
HANNITY: Because she wasn't going to sign a false affidavit, Lucille?
MAHIA: ... "that she has had an affair with a married man?"
HANNITY: All right. Well...
COLMES: Anne -- I think it was Anne Marie Smith, and she's not an opportunist. She's not get -- doing it for money. She's doing it...
MAHIA: I'm not talking about money. I'm just saying she's an opportunist.
HANNITY: She didn't want to go to jail.
COLMES: Well, I...
MAHIA: She is having -- you know, we're talking about...
COLMES: Maybe she just wants the truth...
MAHIA: ... her.
COLMES: Well, Lucille, we're glad you came on with us. Thank you very much for taking the time to call us.
Let me go back to my good friend, Barry Farber. You want to Clintonize this. You want to make this -- this is a missing woman here.
HANNITY: I - we've got to take a break. When -- could we...
COLMES: We have to -- I wasn't aware of that. OK.
HANNITY: We'll take a break. We'll come back, and we will continue on the other side. And what should Gary Condit do next?
Former Clinton adviser Dick Morris -- he's going to check in straight ahead -- as HANNITY & COLMES continues.
COLMES: Don't go away. There's more HANNITY & COLMES in 60 seconds. Is Gary Condit's political future over? Fox News political analyst and former Clinton adviser Dick Morris weighs in when we come back. Stay with us.
COLMES: Welcome back to HANNITY & COLMES. I'm Alan Colmes.
Coming up, could Condit have handled last night's interview differently? Dick Morris will join us.
Back to our debate. Just a few minutes left. Just quickly to say what I was saying before, this is a missing woman. It's not the same thing as Clinton. It's not about whether Gary Condit is a conservative or
liberal or where he stands in the hierarchy of politicians. It's not the same thing.
FARBER: How rough -- how rough are you going to be on me when we have an elected official, forget that they're both Democrats, when we have an intern, when we have allegations and then confessions of sexual liaison? I mean, don't -- I mean that is skewed so close together in history for making some kind of comparison.
COLMES: There are some things that are similar, but it's really -- but it's really a very different story because of the nature of what happened to Chandra Levy. It's not the same thing. And the way Gary
Condit's responded to this and how he's acted. It's not Clintonian.
FARBER: An analogy suggests a similarity, not an exactitude, and I think the analogy is defensible, and I'm not going to apologize.
COLMES: I didn't think Barry -- the great Barry Farber would ever...
FARBER: But wait a minute. I think Patricia Ireland's a liar because she's...
FARBER: ... she's too young to have had one of those dolls where you press a button and it says the same thing over and over depending on what button you press.
IRELAND: That's not true.
COLMES: Patricia, you want -- I'll give you chance respond to Barry. Go. Please.
IRELAND: Well, he made me get a little rush of adrenaline there, and now I don't know what to do with it, except to say that if it were proven tomorrow that Gary Condit had nothing to do with Chandra Levy's appearance, he would still have a big problem because he was living his life in a way that he had to hide, and he put his desire to hide ahead of her safety and perhaps ahead of her life, and I think that that is...
HANNITY: You know what? I...
IRELAND: ... a measurable degree of difference from misleading testimony in a sexual-harassment case.
HANNITY: Let -- let's -- let's take note here this is one of the few times we agree. He abused this family, abused this process, and I -- and I have to throw it to Shawn, because we're almost out of time in this
segment, Barry, and --
You know, excuse me. Sex with an intern, politician in a position of power, lying, lying repeatedly, parsing words, and -- and even going as far as suggesting people are liars when they tell the truth. You know what? I see Bill Clinton II. This is the Clintonization, if you will, of America,
and the natural...
CHAPMAN: Well, as I said before...
HANNITY: ... fallout.
CHAPMAN: As I said before, the difference is, in the Clinton issue, it all had to do with the issue at hand. The Paula Jones deposition. This has to do with a missing woman. Whether or not he had an adulteress affair with her is...
HANNITY: Sex, intern...
CHAPMAN: ... irrelevant to that issue.
HANNITY: ... lying...
HANNITY: ... parsing of words, lack of honesty. I see two peas in a pod.
CHAPMAN: Well, I -- I can...
IRELAND: I think...
CHAPMAN: ... certainly see the analogy that you're making. I'm simply also demonstrating the distinctions.
HANNITY: And Democrats supporting them.
COLMES: You want -- you guys want to politicize this. It's not -- so we shouldn't be doing that, in my view. But...
HANNITY: Excuse me. That's exactly what the truth is.
COLMES: We disagree...
HANNITY: We'll let it stand on its own.
COLMES: ... for a change. Shawn -- Shawn Chapman, that is, thank you very much.
CHAPMAN: Thank you.
COLMES: Patricia Ireland, thank you.
Barry, it's always great to see you. Thank you so much for being here.
Remember to log on to foxnews.com to become a Fox fan. We'll hear from Dick Morris coming up next. Stay with us on HANNITY & COLMES.
Click here to order last night's entire transcript.
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