This is a partial transcript of "The Big Story With John Gibson," November 29, 2005, that has been edited for clarity.

DAVID ASMAN, GUEST HOST: CIA Director Porter Goss says his agency knows more than, it's "it's able to say publicly about Musab al-Zarqawi and Usama bin Laden." So what aren't we being told? We're joined now by former ambassador to Morocco and FOX News foreign affairs analyst, Marc Ginsberg. Good to see you, Ambassador.


ASMAN: First of all, a question of priority. Is getting al-Zarqawi now more important than getting bin Laden?

GINSBERG: Well, it's a close call, David, but I would air on the side of getting al-Zarqawi as soon as possible, since he's wrecking the most havoc on our troops at this point in time. And getting rid of him is a long way toward stabilizing Iraq. And at the same time, getting bin Laden, to me, has always been job one.

ASMAN: Now what do you think that the CIA has that it's not releasing? They say they have good intel on him, but we still don't have the guys.

GINSBERG: Well God, David, I would hope they do. Because at this point in time, Porter Goss is merely repeating what he told TIME Magazine back in June, where they had better reasons to believe where Usama bin Laden was than they did some time ago.

So lets try to cut to the chase. We almost came close to capturing Abu Musab al-Zarqawi in Iraq a couple of weeks ago. We have been taking out people close to him, one by one. And so there may be reason to believe that at least we have reasons to understand better how he is maneuvering himself around Iraq, particularly in Al Anbar province.

Now does that mean we're close to capturing him? I hope I don't know any more than I need to know at this point, as a public citizen. I wish that the CIA would have more knowledge than we know right now about where he is.

ASMAN: Well now, I've got to tell you, the military guys I talk to who have come back, who spent a lot of time outside of the Green Zone fighting the bad guys, say that they're getting a lot more information now than they were, say, a year ago, or even months ago from the locals about where these bad guys are.

So it seems all the bad news notwithstanding that we are getting good intel. Better intel now than ever.

GINSBERG: I can confirm that to you, David, from all of my sources in Iraq, from the e-mails that I'm receiving, yes, we have gotten far better at being able to trace down and preemptively attack these insurgents, even though, as you know, they're still seeping across the border and committing these suicide bombings.

But we're breaking up cells and our intel is better than it was before. Yes. And our troops are doing much better at the task.

ASMAN: And I don't want to be Pollyanna, a lot of people come out with good news and see it slapped down in the future. But, nevertheless, there are these dissident groups, these groups that are dissidents within the insurgents, so-called, that are now breaking away from the terrorists and beginning to negotiate with the government. That shows that there's not that unity that there once was, correct?

GINSBERG: Indeed, David, you're right. There's been no unity per se among these disparate groups. Of the many thousands of insurgents, a significant portion, maybe 25 to 35 percent, are looking to integrate themselves into a political accommodation.

And it's a huge number if we can reach out to them. And I actually am one of those who's suggesting that the United States directly negotiate with them. And integrate them into the process that they've been closed out of, in order to cut that insurgency level by half.

ASMAN: Now if these insurgents negotiate with the government, does that mean that victory in Iraq is possible?

GINSBERG: Well I always believed that if we can completely undo some of the mistakes, which is possible, we can undo some of the counter-insurgency mistakes, we can turn the tide.

I don't think that it is irreversible by far. But it's heading on a slippery slope. And getting those insurgents who are willing to integrate themselves into a political process and lay down their arms in exchange for some conditions, I think is worth talking to.

ASMAN: And the best place to start is getting al-Zarqawi. And we should do that any way we can.

Amb. Marc Ginsberg, good to see you. Thanks very much for being here.

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