New Trouble for Radical Univ. of Colorado Professor Ward Churchill

This is a partial transcript from "The O'Reilly Factor," May 17, 2006, that has been edited for clarity.

Watch "The O'Reilly Factor" weeknights at 8 p.m. and 11 p.m. ET and listen to the "Radio Factor!"

BILL O'REILLY, HOST: In the "'Factor' Follow-Up" segment tonight: As you may know, radical college Professor Ward Churchill, embarrassed the University of Colorado by comparing some Americans killed on 9/11 to Nazis.

After that fracas, there were charges that Churchill's academic performance was questionable. And an investigation was launched by the university.

Now that investigation has been completed.


MIMI WESSON, CU INVESTIGATIVE CHAIR: In particular, we found instances of falsification, fabrication, plagiarism, failure to comply with established standards regarding author names on publications and other serious deviations from accepted practices in reporting the results of research.


O'REILLY: Joining us now from Denver is David Lane, Ward Churchill's lawyer. You expect your client to be fired by the university, do you not?

DAVID LANE, ATTORNEY FOR WARD CHURCHILL: Oh, absolutely. That's been preordained since he made his comments.

O'REILLY: Now do you think this is just a charade, that these people who came back with the very critical comments about your client's academic reputation, do you think they're lying? Do you think this is all contrived?

LANE: No, I — you know, I — they have their side. Ward Churchill has his side. He presented his side of every allegation. They chose to go the other way.

You know, there are two sides of every story. And I have expected from day one that someday, I will be in front of a federal jury in Denver...

O'REILLY: OK, but what I'm asking.

LANE: ...presenting our side of the story.

O'REILLY: I know there are two sides to every story, but you have five fairly prestigious individuals investigating your client. They all come to the conclusion that he did things that he shouldn't have done. Are you saying that the investigation was rigged? Or is it just a difference of opinion?

LANE: No, no, no. I think a lot of it is a difference of opinion. I also think a lot of it is what I refer to as the Galileo trap. Galileo was tried because his heresy was that the earth revolved around the sun as opposed to the sun going around the earth.

Everybody has their truth. In this 125-page document put together by this committee, they have arrived at their versions of the truth.

For example, on the smallpox epidemic, was it started by an Army, you know...


LANE: Army officer? I mean.

O'REILLY: .but I do think there is truth. I don't think everybody has their truth. I think there is truth.

LANE: Well...

O'REILLY: And when you have a university set up to investigate things like this, because your client is - Churchill's not the first guy that's been accused of plagiarism and falsifying academic scholarship.

But I'm curious about this. He didn't teach this semester, Churchill.

LANE: Correct.

O'REILLY: He's not teaching in the fall. He's getting paid almost $100,000. What is he doing?

LANE: Right now, he's writing a book.

O'REILLY: He's writing a book on the taxpayers' money?

LANE: Yes, yes. Every taxpayer in Colorado is currently paying Ward Churchill to write his book.

O'REILLY: Is that unbelievable?

LANE: I will thank them on your show, Mr. O'Reilly. Thank you, taxpayers.

O'REILLY: I mean, how can I get this job?

LANE: And soon they will be paying me...

O'REILLY: How can I get this job?

LANE: Soon they will be paying — they will be paying me to continue through this process, because the University of Colorado.

O'REILLY: How are they paying you? Isn't he paying you?

LANE: .that's part of the protocol — no, that's part of the protocol is that the University of Colorado will end up paying me.

O'REILLY: Oh, this is interesting. So are you billing the University of Colorado for all of the time? Because you've been defending Churchill now for almost a year and a half.

LANE: Well, the University of Colorado, I believe, is obligated to give me $20,000 of taxpayer dollars to continue the defense of Ward Churchill from this point on.

O'REILLY: Is that right?

LANE: I believe so.

O'REILLY: I thought you had a good point the last time you came on where he couldn't be fired for even saying the vile things he said, because —academic freedom, he had tenure.

But now with these five experts coming in and saying, listen, his scholarship isn't up to the standard of the university, I think you're going to lose it, there's no way on earth I think you're going to win it. But I will give you the last word.

LANE: Well, let me just say this, that in federal court, on a First Amendment retaliation claim, I have to show that retaliation for his First Amendment protected speech was a motivating factor. I don't have to show that it was the main factor. I don't have to show that it was the only factor. All I have to show the jury is that it was a motivating factor in his termination.


LANE: I don't think anybody can dispute that.

O'REILLY: I'm sure these five people will. But counselor, we appreciate you coming on the program.

LANE: Thank you.

O'REILLY: And I'd like to talk with your client any time he wants.

Copy: Content and Programming Copyright 2006 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Transcription Copyright 2006 Voxant, Inc. ( ), which takes sole responsibility for the accuracy of the transcription. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. No license is granted to the user of this material except for the user's personal or internal use and, in such case, only one copy may be printed, nor shall user use any material for commercial purposes or in any fashion that may infringe upon Fox News Network, LLC'S and Voxant, Inc.'s copyrights or other proprietary rights or interests in the material. This is not a legal transcript for purposes of litigation.