This is a rush transcript from "Glenn Beck," August 23, 2010. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
GLENN BECK, HOST: Everybody is talking about Ground Zero and the mosque. Should it be there? Should it not be there? I believe, as a nation, we're pretty clear: You can build any house of worship wherever you want to build.
But, shouldn't we be asking a more important question? Who are the people behind this? Where are they getting the funding? What do they really believe?
According to our next guest, the imam behind the Ground Zero mosque, Imam Rauf, makes no bones about his goal to build a mosque near sacred ground and to bring Shariah to America.
To further explain, Frank Gaffney, president of the Center for Security Policy and assistant secretary of the Reagan Defense Department.
OK. Well, I guess we start with Shariah. Explain quickly what Shariah is for anybody who doesn't know.
FRANK GAFFNEY, PRESIDENT OF THE CENTER FOR SECURITY POLICY: Shariah is a political program that the authorities of Islam have long believed, a millennium or so, must be imposed over the entire world, to be ruled by a theocracy, a caliph and to impose Shariah as the rules.
To give you a sense of how it operates, look at Saudi Arabia, look at Iran. They are governed by Shariah. And guys like Feisal Abdul Rauf, who want to bring Shariah to America, have in mind having us governed as they are.
BECK: I'm going to get hammered, Frank, for probably having you on. But I know I will get hammered for the statement that I made that he wants to bring Shariah, because he's being marketed as a moderate.
Give me the evidence that he is — that he is not who he claims to be.
GAFFNEY: I believe Rauf is a classic example of a larger enterprise; namely, the implementation of Shariah's requirement that its adherence bring about that global theocracy through jihad, where appropriate through violent means and where that is not the most effective way to do it, through more stealthy, as they call, civilization means.
And here's the thing, the Muslim Brotherhood operatives, like Rauf, are extremely skilled at obscuring for our benefit, the non-Muslims world benefit, their true agenda and often are portrayed, including by our government — sadly, not just under this administration, but previous ones — as moderates. It's part of the stealth jihad.
BECK: So, have you noticed, Frank, that it seems to be a — there seems to be a global effort against freedom in the world. It's not just — the same tactics being used by radical Islam are the same tactics with the Weather Underground, the same — we — who knew what fundamental transformation meant just 18 months ago. But you see what's happening.
And by the time you figure it out, it's too late.
GAFFNEY: Right.
BECK: Is this the same thing that's happening here? I mean, is it the same kind of tactics that are being used over and over again throughout this administration?
I'm not saying that they are connected but — or maybe are they?
GAFFNEY: Well, I think there is a commonality of interests between folks who embraced what we've talked about before, kind of the transnational agenda of the left and the transnational agenda of the Islamists.
They have their differences in terms of the end-state: The left wants the world to be run by the U.N. or sort of an international league; the Islamists wanted it run by a caliph.
BECK: A caliph.
GAFFNEY: But what they have in common, Glenn — and this goes to your question — is they both regard us as the impediment to the realization of their objectives.
BECK: Right.
GAFFNEY: And they are working in concert in a lot of different ways that are advancing the takedown of America —
BECK: Right.
GAFFNEY: — the mutation or the fundamental transformation of America, in ways that will, I'm afraid, make it much more difficult for us to stop either of these agendas at our expense.
BECK: Let me get — I don't know if you can comment on this, and I'm sorry, America, this may be too weird for you — but it was about five years ago that I heard Mahmoud Ahmadinejad say, oh, Allah, give me the strength to do the things that I must do to hasten the return of the Promised Land.
And I remember I was working at CNN at the time, and all the journalists just walked away. And I went, wait, wait, wait, wait, can somebody tell me what did he just say here? I went back and I looked. And if you look at the 12th Imam and then you look at the Bible prophecy, it's the same story in reverse. I mean, it is a global takeover. The 12th Imam comes back, global takeover, rules from Babylon and beheads and kills anybody who won't bow to Islam.
This is why Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is so important and what's happening in Israel, because they want that bloodshed. They believe — if they're not just being politicians and saying these things, if they actually believe in the 12th Imam, they believe the more chaos, the faster the promised one comes.
And it seems to me that we have all of these pieces just coming in that could lead to serious trouble. I'm not even — biblical stuff, I'm just — real trouble.
GAFFNEY: One of the other things that Ahmadinejad has said, not once but several times, is that it's not only desirable to bring about a world without America, it's achievable. And when you combine that with some of the things we see him or his regime doing, because he's in a way the front man but the clerics behind him really do believe in this stuff, I think you're absolutely right. They are setting in motion apocalyptic —
BECK: Yes.
GAFFNEY: — ambitions that if realized, I don't think are going to bring about the Mahdi but they could bring about the destruction of Israel.
BECK: Right.
GAFFNEY: The destruction even in America.
(CROSSTALK)
BECK: They do. I mean, some do believe that it was the Mahdi. Whether you do or not, it's going to be a nightmare.
GAFFNEY: Absolutely.
BECK: Do you believe the president and his administration know who this guy is at Ground Zero, that they take it seriously, that they are not
— that these are honest mistakes that they're making right now?
GAFFNEY: I think the time has passed for attributing this level of acquiescence, if not enabling, of this Shariah agenda to simple, innocent or honest mistakes.
I think this administration has exhibited a sympathy — the president particularly — a sympathy for the agenda of folks who are in fact under one front organization or another of the Muslim Brotherhood seeking to promote Shariah in America.
That's what's so appalling about this, is we should know better. We should know that there were Muslim Brothers at the Iftar dinner at the White House. We should know that the guy that we're sending on this tour of the Middle East — and by the way, we're sending his wife to meet up with him.
BECK: It doesn't make sense.
GAFFNEY: A woman who just denounced us for being anti-Semitic. It's unbelievable.
BECK: OK. Real quick, I only got about 30 seconds. Real quick, just give somebody a starting point on the Muslim Brotherhood. If you don't know who the Muslim Brotherhood is.
GAFFNEY: Muslim Brotherhood started in 1920 in Egypt, thereabouts. And its main effort is to restore the call caliphate, through stealthy means, in the West. It is very much present here. In fact, any Muslim American organization in this country of any prominence is a Muslim Brotherhood front. We know that from the Holy Land Foundation trial in Dallas, Texas. And unfortunately, this network, like every other, bringing them forward as the spokesman for the Muslim American community. They shouldn't be, any more than the president should be reaching out to them and utilizing them, I should say, as his go-to people.
BECK: All right. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it.
GAFFNEY: Too little time, but thanks for having me.
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