This is a partial transcript from "The O'Reilly Factor," Sept. 16, 2005, that has been edited for clarity.

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BILL O'REILLY, HOST: In the Back of the Book" segment tonight, some Americans are perplexed at the European attitude toward worldwide terrorism, especially Al Qaeda.

You'll remember that Spain pulled its troops out of Iraq after Al Qaeda bombed a train near Madrid, killing 191. And all throughout Europe, there doesn't seem to be a unified front against Al Qaeda or terrorism in general.

With us now is the former prime minister of Spain, and a staunch ally of the USA, Jose Maria Aznar, who is currently lecturing at Georgetown University. He's also the author of the book, "Eight Years as Prime Minister: A Personal Vision of Spain, '96-2004."

Pleased to have you here. The perception, as I said, is that the Europeans don't have the heart to confront Al Qaeda. True or false?

JOSE MARIA AZNAR, FORMER PRIME MINISTER OF SPAIN: Yes. The perception of this threat of terrorism in Europe is different that in the states, and the will to fight the terrorists is more weak in Europe than in the states.

O'REILLY: It's weaker in Europe than it is here?



AZNAR: Because it's very difficult, very, very — it's necessary to be very strong to be — to fight terrorism. It's not possible to dawdle with terrorism, make appeasement with terrorism.

With terrorists, for me, it exists only one policy, fight and fight and fight. And to defeat it. And the position of Europe is more different. There are people that prefer appeasement, no fighting, and to think this is a question for the states but not for Europe.

O'REILLY: OK. So they want to sit it out. They don't want to confront it. Let the Americans confront Al Qaeda.


O'REILLY: But obviously, Usama bin Laden is going to kill you just as soon as he's going to kill us. We've seen it in Madrid. We saw it in London. We're going to see it in other places.

And it reminds me of what happened in Europe before Hitler. You know? Everybody knew what a madman he was.

AZNAR: Absolutely.

O'REILLY: But they didn't want to fight him. And it's the same thing. And what Americans don't understand, and I've been to your country many times. I was there when Franco, the dictator, was over. And what Americans don't understand is, is it a courage thing? Are Europeans just not brave enough? What is it?

AZNAR: Europeans in general don't like responsibility. And they prefer to give responsibility to the United States.

They prefer no expense in our security. And they prefer the states guarantee our security. And this is a very, very — this is a question. After the Second World War.

But the perception of Europeans is the same before Hitler. They preferred the appeasement, and this is a very serious mistake.

O'REILLY: Appeasement.

AZNAR: After — after attacks in Spain, and after attacks...

O'REILLY: And it's a beg problem for America. Because we need our allies — Spain, France, Germany, Italy — we need our allies to help us.

Now, they tell us that behind the scenes, the Spanish intelligence, French intelligence, German intelligence does help the USA try to track down these Al Qaeda maniacs. Is that true?

AZNAR: It's true. But in this moment there are two visions in Europe. Those who think, imagine Europe without the states. And play the game to make the Atlantic Alliance. And those with me that like Europe with the states.

O'REILLY: Right.

AZNAR: There is Atlantic Alliance.

O'REILLY: There's a big debate.

AZNAR: This is to combat and to fight terrorism.

O'REILLY: Right. I think you're absolutely right. I wish you were still prime minister of Spain. Because you were you a good friend to the USA. And I appreciate it, personally, as an American. Thank you, sir. And I appreciate you coming on in.

AZNAR: Thank you very much.

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