Republicans blast Biden for pushing false statements about new Georgia voting law

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," April 5, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, FOX NEWS HOST (on camera): Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Greg Gutfeld, Juan Williams, Katie Pavlich and Lawrence Jones. It's five o'clock in New York City and this is THE FIVE.

Republicans blasting President Biden for pushing false statements about the new Georgia voting law as Democrats put more pressure on corporations to fight back. The president's words, which got four Pinocchios, I would die if I ever got one, from the Washington Post now having real world consequences.

After the MLB decide to move their all-star game from Atlanta to protest the law. And Georgia officials estimate that decision to move the game will cost the state $100 million in tourism revenue. Here's Georgia Governor Brian Kemp on that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. BRIAN KEMP (R-GA): People are getting screwed in this, Martha. It's a small, hard-working business people that are up in Cobb County and in the metro Atlanta area that are going to get hurt by the all-star game being pulled from here. This is outrageous. People need to stand up and join the fight and say, look, we are done with the cancel culture in this pressuring.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO (on camera): And former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie had this strong message for Biden.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-NJ): He is lying about this bill. He is lying to the American people about it. To cause the raging fire he said he was going to put out. He is lying to cause racial divisions in this country. That's what he accused Donald Trump of doing and he is a liar and a hypocrite.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO (on camera): All right. I also wanted to play some sound from a restaurant owner in Atlanta. You can imagine how disappointed they are to not have this business coming in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN MALOOF, OWNER, MANUEL'S TAVERN: It's devastating. It's devastating to the city. It's devastating to many businesses, mine included. It seems very unnecessary, very punitive. And counter intuitive to what we are trying to do by reopening.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO (on camera): Lawrence, last week you were talking about some -- your thoughts about Atlanta and how right before the general election last November you were telling everybody that the state is changing. What do you think now, now that MLB has decided to leave?

LAWRENCE JONES, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, yes, I kind of sounded the alarms during election time because I was on the ground and I was seeing the demographics change, the ground game change. You know, it's true that the Republicans are correct on the merits of this. The Washington Post has already destroyed the Democratic Party on this. When you have lost the Washington Post, then you know you are straight up lying.

Most of the businesses that are over here virtue signaling they don't care about the issue. They care about the people that are going to make them suffer from a business standpoint, right? They don't care about what's happening in Georgia. But, none of that really matters.

Winning the argument on the merits doesn't matter if you don't win the people. And Republicans often fall in this trap. I've been watching the governor of Georgia all day -- all week, actually, talk about how he saw this coming from the left, that they purchased the domain weeks ago. Then why weren't you prepared for it?

I watched the guy say well, if they just read the bill. Most of the legislators don't even read the bill. Do you think the people are going to read the bill? So, I've seen this circling from Republicans and it is an often mistake that they make. You have to win the people.

Now, Republicans and conservatives like Ben Shapiro would say, listen, facts don't care about your feelings. That is true. Based on the merits. But, guess what? Voters based on how they feel. And until Republicans win the people on the ground, they are going to continue to go through this circling squad when it comes to race.

Republicans always lose the battle when it comes to race because they don't win the battle of ideas. What do you mean by that? If Republicans dominate on the ground when it comes to school choice, if they dominate when it comes down to gun issues, education, the economy, then they won't have to worry about the race.

Look at Ron DeSantis in Florida? He has won people on school choice. He has won Black voters and Latino voters because, guess what? He won the battle of ideas. When they try to attack him on race, it doesn't work.

PERINO (on camera): That's really interesting perspective. Let me also have you all listen to Jen Psaki. Of course, she is the White House press secretary about whether President Biden, well they wanted MLB to cancel out of Atlanta. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: He was not dictating for what Major League Baseball should do that they should dictating they should move the all-star game. That was their decision. They made that decision, and, as he stated earlier, he certainly supports that. I'm not here to call for anyone on behalf of the president or the vice president or anyone to take steps in reaction to the law in Georgia.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO (on camera): Katie, it was almost like he was speaking in his personal capacity. This is not the president speaking.

KATIE PAVLICH, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Yes. It was the president speaking. And the language was very carefully selected after President Joe Biden went to Georgia and had a meeting with Stacey Abrams who was the one who has been pushing the narrative this is Jim Crow 2.0. When it comes to all these boycotts the Democrats own this.

Stacey Abrams is the one who came up with this hyperbolic language to describe this legislation. She is the one who has been leading the charge and lying about what is in the legislation. And Joe Biden simply amplified it during that interview on ESPN, and Jen Psaki when she was asked about it multiple times at the White House briefing, she also repeated the lies about what is in this legislation.

Now, when it comes to the argument that Lawrence made about Republicans needing to win the people, on the issue of voter I.D., 80 percent of the country, nobody agrees on anything but 80 percent of the country according to Gallup agrees that voter identification, using it to vote is a valid requirement when it comes to casting your ballot.

And so, Republicans, I think, are not backing down on this. That's a good thing. They are standing up and saying we are not doing. This I love that Marco Rubio called out the commissioner of the MLB saying, well, Georgia is such a racist awful Jim Crow 2.0 state.

I assume you'll be giving up your membership at Augusta where the Masters are held, because how could you support that? But of course, that would be a personal thing that he would have to give up. The bottom line is as soon as the MLB announced this the Atlanta Braves came out against it. Cobb County commissioners and tourism officials have come out against this and all the small businesses are going to suffer and the Democrats own this.

They drove the narrative. This is Jim Crow and then there is a reaction to their being Jim Crow laws back in place and now they are all surprised about there being a boycott. This is on Democrats, not Republicans.

PERINO: Charles Barkley had this to say, Juan, if you can put it on the screen, I will read to everyone. It says, I think most white people and Black people are great people. I really believe that in my heart but I think our system is set up where our politicians, whether they are Republicans of Democrats, are designed to make us not like each other so they can keep their grasp of money and power, they divide and conquer. Any thoughts on that?

JUAN WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS CO-HOST & POLITICAL ANALYST: I love Charles Barkley, I think is he really great. But I must say I think if Charles Barkley was a Major League Baseball player right now, he might be one of those players who wouldn't even go to an all-star game in Georgia given the current law.

I mean, you think about Delta, Coke, other CEOs, they're not, you know, just reacting to nothing, they are not stupid people, and they care deeply about their bottom line. But they are indicating here that they don't want to be caught off guard again.

They saw what happened January 6th in terms of the attack on the Congress. They don't want to see democracy undermined and along with it the economic base of this country. They don't want to see that, Dana. I think they understand that's dangerous.

What Republican politicians are counting on is that people will not read the law, that people will allow them to get away with what I think of as just a naked power grab that allows them to strip power from the secretary of state, to take power from local election boards, and to give all the power to count votes and to certify elections to the Republican majority in the state Senate. I mean, all of this is based on a big lie --

JONES: The Washington Post are Republicans?

WILLIAMS: Yes. No. The Washington Post fact checker got something that Joe Biden said and called him out on it properly, Lawrence, but they didn't say that they were with the state of Georgia and Governor Kemp.

JONES: Delta did.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: I think what you have to understand is everybody --

JONES: Delta read the bill and they were for it before.

WILLIAMS: Hang on, hang on just a second, please. What you have to understand is here everybody is saying this is born of the big lie that there was some tremendous election fraud. The election in 2020 was stolen.

Let me just tell everybody listening, there was no argument here. It wasn't stolen. It was a fair honest election and this effort to change election laws now is just an effort by people who want to make sure they win every future election. That's why you see the response from corporate CEOs.

PERINO: Greg, what do you -- well, you can answer if you want, but what's the --

(CROSSTALK)

GREG GUTFELD, FOX NEWS CO-HOST: Let me respond to that, Dana.

PERINO: OK.

GUTFELD: Nothing Juan said is true. You are saying that the corporate -- you are saying that the corporations are responding to January 6th. No, they're not.

WILLIAMS: In part.

GUTFELD: No, no.

WILLIAMS: Yes, they are.

GUTFELD: Now it's in part. OK. They are responding to everything that happened before that, meaning the billions of dollars in looting and arson that occurred over the summer months in response --

WILLIAMS: Get out of here.

GUTFELD: -- to the, yes, in response to the, quote, "mostly peaceful demonstrations." OK? This is not a principled stand by corporations. This is their way of saving their bottom line. You even said it, Juan. It's about the bottom line.

This is the corporation equivalent of putting a BLM sign up on the front of your place of business so you hope that your windows don't get busted or your store get torched in these mostly peaceful demonstrations. That's what they are doing.

This is, we know this is happening. The media has weaponized the accusation of racism on all potential behaviors, and corporations only want to make money so they will do anything. And I will tell you this, if I were the woke right now, I would go for everything. Because they have companies on the run. They should go to MLB and they should say look, a family of four cost 215 bucks for them to go see a baseball game. Why not make it more affordable? There should be different tiers of pricing for race. Right?

Let's have Black families free tickets. Do you know what? MLB, they will probably go for it as a form of corporate reparations because they are terrified. Now, I do have a solution for this. But it makes too much sense. We need an Operation Warp Speed for free I.D.s. Because I asked this before last week. And nobody had an answer. Even up to today.

Do you know any people who don't have I.D.s? Do you know anybody besides illegal aliens that don't have I.D.s? And by the way, if you do know somebody --

WILLIAMS: Yes.

GUTFELD: -- that doesn't have an I.D. do you might think that they have bigger concerns than actually getting an I.D. for voting? So, we know this is happening. This is purely a political grasp for power and what's happening is we never thought as capitalists that it would be the corporations that did us in.

Well, they have. There is no -- I hope Biden, Biden is talking about a 30, what, a 27 percent corporate income -- 70 percent, 80 percent. You lost me. I no longer defending lower corporate tax rates. I am now pure occupy Wall Street. If they can't stand up to the woke, then you lost the free market, we no longer care about you.

You politicized -- you've turned corporations into enforcement arms of political ideas fostered by the media. Once that happens, we should walk away, find our own companies to benefit, find our airlines, find our sodas because this is B.S.

PERINO: and baseball was supposed to be America's past time.

GUTFELD: Blaming it on January 6th. That is rich. This is all about the riots.

WILLIAMS: No, it's not.

GUTFELD: Yes, it is. Nobody wants their businesses destroyed, Juan. That's what this is about.

WILLIAMS: Let me tell you something. No, it's not. That's like saying that Dr. King --

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: I have facts.

WILLIAMS: -- this isn't a good time to protest.

GUTFELD: You have an opinion.

WILLIAMS: Come on, Greg.

PERINO: All right. Coming up, we'll move on. Well, how convenient is this. The Biden administration updating the definition of infrastructure as they prep his massive $2. trillion -- $2.3 trillion spending spree.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS (on camera): President Biden's team offering up new definitions of the word infrastructure as his team begins to sell people on his $2 trillion spending plan.

According to a Fox News analysis, the bill will direct well under half of its total money to things traditionally defined as infrastructure like $213 billion for housing and 400 billion for taking care of the elderly and disabled. Here's what Biden's director of the National Economic Council is saying.

BRIAN DEESE, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL: I think we really need to update what we mean by infrastructure for the 21st century. If you look at that number on housing, what we are talking about is construction, building housing all around the country, to help make sure that there are more affordable housing units for people to access jobs and access economic opportunity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO (on camera): But President Biden says, I'm going to pick up here from Juan, it's actually the Republican's definition of the word infrastructure that has changed. You got to see this. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: It's kind of interesting that when the Republicans put forward an infrastructure plan, they thought everything from broadband to dealing with other things, was in the range of infrastructure. Now they are saying that only a small portion of what I'm saying is infrastructure. So, it's interesting to see how their definition of infrastructure has changed. Because they know, they know we need it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO (on camera): Greg, do you remember -- we lost Juan -- we are trying to get him back, everybody. Do you remember when --

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Are we really trying?

PERINO: Yes, well, yes, I'm assuming. Do you remember when the Merriam, I think it was Webster's dictionary they changed the definition of court- packing because of a Twitter mob?

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: So, you can kind of imagine that the Democrats think that this actually might work to change the definition of infrastructure.

GUTFELD: This is not the first time. They love to stretch a word's definition until is meaningless. Do we even know what gender is anymore? I've lost -- I've touch with that. Hate speech is now any speech. And racism is everywhere especially now that it's unconscious. For some reason voter I.D. is racist. For some reason thinking -- thinking that people -- that Blacks can't get an I.D. is -- that seems to be a bit more racist than expecting a voter I.D.

But I think that now -- what is it like 94 percent of the bill has nothing to do with roads or actual bridges? And I'm thinking to myself I live in New York where our roads have more holes than that highway of death from -- from Kuwait to Iraq and it's because it doesn't go to the actual infrastructure. It goes to pet projects. It goes to other stuff and for some politicians strippers.

PERINO: Some, that is true.

GUTFELD: So.

PERINO: Juan is back. Juan, why don't I just ask you your thoughts. I'm going to keep going here and take it around the table. This changing definition of infrastructure --

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Well, I can I pick up, Dana.

PERINO: Are you good with that? Or ask away.

WILLIAMS: Yes. Because I think there's -- I'm sorry, what did you say?

PERINO: I said you can ask away. I'm just trying to help.

WILLIAMS: OK. Well, I'll ask you. I'll you what, Dana, I'll take it back and I'll ask you a question.

PERINO: OK.

WILLIAMS: I noticed today that the stock market went through the roof. That the stock market went up like 400 points, and set a record. So, it seems to me like Wall Street is having a very positive reaction to Biden's plan including the tax proposals. What do you say?

PERINO: Well, I think that any time you think the government is going to throw a whole bunch of money at a problem that is completely undefined or during changing definitions that markets would say like, hot damn, we are going to get on that bandwagon, absolutely, until there is an economic consequence.

And I think that, you know, the Biden team, I admire them for swinging for the fences. Right? This is -- this is bold, it is big. I don't know how it's going to end up. I don't know the economic consequences of it at the end, the political consequences as well. I mean, it's -- it is crazy. It's a lot of money and it is very undefined.

WILLIAMS: So, Lawrence, I was thinking about this and I was thinking to myself in terms of this definition of infrastructure, I would include things and I wonder if you would include things like railroads, clean water, electric grid, broadband, V.A. hospitals, public housing, caring for seniors. I would say that's a 21st definition of what infrastructure means. What do you think?

JONES: You ask a libertarian that? No, absolutely not.

WILLIAMS: I'm going to ask you.

JONES: No, I don't agree with that. I think that the Biden administration is in trouble when it comes to this legislation. A lot of moderates aren't going to go for this and look other than no one than George Soros. There is an exclusive report with Axios on this right now. Him and the Open Society Foundation are pledging $20 million to get this passed.

This is what the executive director said. That we've seen popular reforms get demonized before bipartisan and special interest and we are not going to let it happen. They also said facts don't always lean without some real muscle. Put behind getting those facts in front of the American people.

This organization isn't targeting Republicans. They are going after Democrats. So that lets me know they are afraid that this legislation is not going to get passed.

WILLIAMS: Well, Katie, I was, you know, again, always just trying to say here's what the pros are saying the infrastructure plan is also called by Biden's team the American jobs plan. And you have Goldman Sachs, Moody's, S&P saying it's going to create two to three million jobs and increase per capita income by $2,500 per person, $2,500. Isn't that something that's going to attract a lot of support from the American people?

PAVLICH: Not if those jobs cost $2.5 trillion and they're forced unionized jobs which is what this bill does under the guise of infrastructure. But I want to go back to George Soros quickly with Lawrence Jones bringing him up. What is -- how did George Soros get rich? By destroying economies. By making people's currency worth nothing.

That's exactly what he is trying to do here by pushing the Democrats further to the left and I think, Dana, you had the governor of Tennessee on your program this morning. And he said, look, all this free money, everyone likes free money. Wall Street likes it, Moody's likes it, everyone likes it, but it's like a meth hit. And eventually if you do too much meth, all of your teeth fall out and your face starts falling off and you eventually die.

And that's what will happen if you continue to print money and not pay for these things that the woke left wants and this is basically just the Green New Deal 2.0 under the guise of infrastructure with a whole bunch of equity and racial justice, social justice causes baked in it.

WILLIAMS: All right. Thanks, Katie. Up next, Piers Morgan sitting down with Tucker Carlson. He is speaking out on the cancel culture controversy that rocked his career. Next on THE FIVE.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAVLICH (on camera): Piers Morgan speaking out for the first time to Tucker Carlson on the cancel culture firestorm that saw him storming off the set of his morning show in Britain and leaving it for good. It was all because Piers dared to question Meghan Markle and Prince Harry saying that he didn't believe a word she said in her interview with Oprah Winfrey. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PIERS MORGAN, FORMER CO-HOST, ITV NEWS: I still don't believe what they were saying. And, in particular, I don't believe what Meghan Markle said. Seventeen different claims by the pair of them have now been proven to be either completely untrue or massively exaggerated or unprovable.

I don't believe Meghan Markle. A huge fury erupted throughout the day. I was in outrage. I wasn't allowed to have an opinion that I didn't believe what she was saying even though it was clear to me in real-time, as I was watching the interview, that there are a number of things which just couldn't be true.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAVLICH: That interview now available on Fox Nation's "TUCKER CARLSON TODAY." It was over an hour long. So, you can catch all of that on Fox Nation and more tonight at 8:00 p.m. Eastern on "TUCKER CARLSON TONIGHT" on Fox News Channel.

So, Greg, cancel culture, this whole Meghan Markle interviews sparked a whole lot of controversy and feelings, and now Piers is talking about it.

GUTFELD: Yes, it's a different kind of cancel culture because he canceled himself, which I actually kind of admire. Rather than -- rather than bend over, like we're seeing with our American corporations, he just got up, left the studio, and didn't come back, which is kind of impressive.

But it just goes to show that wherever race and politics invades, it creates a stifling and discontent. You must believe a certain assumption or you could be ruined. And he just decided, look, I'm at a certain point in my life where I don't have to do that. But it's also weird how canceled culture is now creating strange bedfellows, because all you got to do is be burned, and then you find friendship in other people that you didn't like.

You know, I never really cared for Piers Morgan's opinions because his nonsense on guns used to drive me crazy. But then when I saw him going head to head with the woke, I changed my mind because I found him like, you know, common ground. You know, we at least can debate about guns. With cancel culture, you can't debate.

PAVLICH: I'm in the same boat as you are, Greg. So, Dana, in the U.K., unlike in the U.S., you can file a legal complaint against broadcasting networks. And Meghan Markel actually did that against Piers Morgan, so that is a certain kind of cancel culture.

PERINO: I mean, honestly, the both of them are getting a ton of attention for this, right? So, I don't -- the Oprah Winfrey interview feels like it was like two years ago, and we are still talking about it every single day. So, I mean, I think Piers Morgan, obviously, was, as Greg says, in a position in his career. At that point, he could say, I'm not going to -- I don't have to stand for this. You know, he's not starting out.

I think that's one of the questions I keep getting when I do some of these book events is from people asking me, do you have any advice of what I can advise my college student who's about to enter the workforce of what they can do about cancel culture and the woke. And I got to say, I'm searching for answers. I mean, it's a difficult problem. But if you're Piers Morgan, you can stand up.

PAVLICH: Juan, what did you think of the interview or what you saw?

WILLIAMS: Well, I thought that -- you know, what struck me, Katie, was he said, he has no way to know if she was suicidal. What he doubts is her claim that she went to people in the, you know, royal palace to complain and ask for help. But he says he can't believe that they wouldn't have helped her.

But this comes back to what Greg was talking about how he canceled himself because the -- what provoked that whole incident was I think it was the weatherman who said, you know, mental health issues are very real and in all societies, and you shouldn't be dismissive of people who say they're having a tough time and feeling the stress and need some help.

And then he felt somehow that he was offended, that his opinion wasn't being welcomed and all this. I think you have to really go back and remember that it was about mental health.

PAVLICH: Yes, but Lawrence, this was about holding Meghan Markle accountable for some pretty egregious things that she said. I mean, she accused the royal family of questioning her son's skin color. I mean, these weren't little things she was accusing of. There was pretty much bombs she was throwing, and he was responding to that.

JONES: Yes, and I don't know anything about that. Look, I don't get into family drama. I also don't trust the Queen that much. I mean, she let the prince get away with everything. I mean, he's messed around with women and all that.

Also, I'm not a fan of Piers Morgan. I think, you know, he's not a nice guy. I don't like him. I don't like how he's always commented on Americans' business. He can take that back to the U.K. But I think that is the principle about all of this. It's not about me agreeing with Piers Morgan. I stand by the principle of free speech. And I think that's the one principle that should unite us all, especially those of us that are on the airwaves. We are one comment away from being canceled.

PERINO: Not you, Lawrence.

JONES: Well, you'll never know.

PAVLICH: Not you, Lawrence. We'll get Piers to come around on the Second Amendment soon, hopefully. We're working on it.

All right, up ahead, more shocking admissions from Hunter Biden, what he just said about the federal investigation into his finances.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JONES: Welcome back. Stunning new admissions from Hunter Biden on the scandals that have plagued his father's campaign and presidency and the federal investigation into his finances. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you ever given your father money from any of your business ventures?

HUNTER BIDEN, SON OF PRESIDENT BIDEN: No, nothing ever.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not a nickel?

H. BIDEN: Not a nickel.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Directly or indirectly?

H. BIDEN: Directly or indirectly. Not a nickel ever, 100 percent no, never.

I'm cooperating completely. And I am absolutely certain, 100 percent certain that at the end of the investigation that I will be cleared of any wrongdoing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're 100 percent certain.

H. BIDEN: I'm 100 percent certain.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: Hunter Biden also pressed more about the infamous laptop that could have been his. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you leave a laptop with a repairman in Wilmington?

H. BIDEN: Not that I remember. Not that I remember, no. But whether or not somebody has my laptop, whether or not it was -- I was hacked, whether or not there exists a laptop at all, I truly don't know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you missing a laptop?

H. BIDEN: Not that I know of. But you know, read the book and you realize that I wasn't keeping tabs on possessions very well for about a four-year period of time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: All right, Dana, I'm going to test the questions later, but from a communication standpoint, why is he out there with a book, A? Number two, why is he out there doing interviews? Can they not control this guy?

PERINO: So, I think of it in two ways. One, you can imagine that you got through the -- you got through the election fine. Like, your dad is president. You're getting through your scandals fine. You are newly married again and there's a young baby in the picture. And, you know, in some ways, you could think, well, you know, that's pretty good given the tumultuous and difficult life that he's had with his addiction, and he writes about that very openly here.

But on the other hand, I think that there's probably -- you can't tell him anything unless you read the book, or if -- I haven't read the book, but if you read these excerpts, or you read the reviews that are coming out, I mean, there was no controlling him at all.

So, I also imagine that he wants to be able to be next to his father, and he wants to be able to be photographed. So, he writes this book hoping that when -- that will provide some sort of a buffer between him and his father and these scandals, so that he can say, I wrote about it in the book, I'm positive I'll be cleared, I'm moving on here.

And maybe -- and that could work. A lot of the stuff that he said is -- like on the laptop, that's just not believable. But it also does remind all of us that the media and social media companies were really, really derelict in their duties last October.

JONES: Well, they are, Dana. And, Greg, part of my concern about this interview is no one decided to print out the e-mails and said, did you write this or did you lose your laptop, or there's plenty of questions. When did you lose your laptop? Is this you in this picture?

GUTFELD: I wonder how -- what the ground rules behind these interviews were for and why any -- you know, there is a period interest in his life because it's gross. But if you have if you haven't -- if you've lived an interesting life, you know -- you may not know Hunter, but you know five of them, right?

These are basically dopamine, compulsive -- dopamine addicted, compulsive people who put the consequences of your act -- of their actions on you, right? Dana, I have to take issue with your saying that he had a difficult -- his lifestyle was difficult. It wasn't that difficult, right? He got away with it. He's someone who was able to do what he wanted to do because of Biden privilege.

Any Black kid, any poor White would be in prison for years for or they might even be dead, because we don't -- I mean, because clearly, Hunter had the best of everything. And let's not forget, again, that if this story had gone public, we might not have Biden as President. We might not have -- so there is another like nice little privilege.

Juan, you shake your head, but there were polls.

JONES: Yes.

GUTFELD: There were polls --

JONES: I want to know --

GUTFELD: -- that said that voters would have been swayed if they had known the truth.

JONES: Yes, do you agree with Greg, Juan? Did his privilege, his color and his privilege altogether, his dad is going to be the next president help him escape?

GUTFELD: Of course.

WILLIAMS: Sure. I mean, if you're a rich kid coming from a prominent American family. But here's the other side to this. I think Republicans are trying to turn Hunter Biden into the next Benghazi. The problem with that, Lawrence is that, I think, most Americans, I think all of us on this panel say this is a deeply troubled person, drugs, alcohol, mental health issues, relationship issues.

But you know, so we just know. It's like, you know, he's a son of a prominent family, always been compared to his more successful brother who's now deceased, and where he's trying to seek redemption in the public spotlight while his father is president. He's having a tough time.

I don't think his scandals add up too much in terms of, you know, indictment of Joe Biden. I don't see that at all.

GUTFELD: Burisma, China? Burisma, China?

WILLIAMS: But you know, if it's not -- if it's not --Kamala laughing, then it's Dr. Biden, Jill Biden. Looks, stop.

GUTFELD: We're talking about China and Burisma and Father Joe getting a cut of it.

JONES: No, no. So, to Greg --

WILLIAMS: He didn't get any cut.

GUTFELD: There greater evidence of that than your Russian collusion story you pump for four years, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Oh, come on. You got nothing.

JONES: To Greg's -- to Greg's point Katie, Juan just set up that he's very troubled, that everyone knew that he was troubled, he's struggling. How did he get these jobs and I mean, the White House not know anything about this? I mean, he set it up. You're right, Juan. He was troubled. So, Katie, how does he get the job?

PAVLICH: Well, first, I want to say that Benghazi was no small thing. Four Americans were killed as a result of that terrorist attack. So, that's no small thing. The second thing is he got the job because his last name was Biden, which Hunter Biden has admitted in interviews prior to writing his book. And the third thing is that we know this was Hunter's laptop.

So, when he's asked about this, he gives all these excuses for it may be mine, it may not be mine. We know it's his. Fox News has done plenty of reporting on it. Mike Emanuel got the sheet with his signature on it. There's an eyewitness and then Tony Bobulinski sends all the information that came off of the laptop including all the text messages about the big guy being Joe Biden are true. So, the laptop is Hunter Biden's?

JONES: Yes. I wish they're giving me an interview. I have some questions. Anyway, straight ahead, is AOC all talk and no action? Why she's getting called out as one of the least effective members of Congress next on THE FIVE.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: She talks a big game on Twitter, but when it comes to actually getting stuff done, New York Democrat Alexandria Ocasio Cortez is coming up short. A new nonpartisan study says AOC was among the least effective members of the last Congress introducing 21 bills that went nowhere. I hate bills that go nowhere.

All right, I'm going to say something, Lawrence, that I don't -- I think this study is bogus. It's like they're measuring the amount of blood in a - - in a sponge.

JONES: Yes.

GUTFELD: It's like, she is probably the most effective politician on the -- on the planet. It has nothing to do with bills anymore, does it?

JONES: Yes. These people are dumb. And this is why we continue to lose. Look, AOC -- the Congress is a representation of the current population, right? AOC is not after the current population. She's after your kids and your grandkids and she's very effective at it. And the amount of people in the Progressive Caucus that exists now because of her going around the country to rally them, oh, she's been quite effective, and you should be afraid.

GUTFELD: Juan, you know, she reminds me of an effective Twitter game that very little political, I guess acumen, a man known as Donald Trump. She is the Democrat Donald Trump. It's she's going to win.

JONES: Yes.

GUTFELD: Did I lose Juan?

WILLIAMS: Wow. I think you gave her a big promotion there. I don't know if she'll ever be president, but we'll see. I mean, I think Lawrence is exactly right. I think you have to think about the measure. In terms of legislation, she's not as effective as some people who were in her incoming class. I'm thinking of Abigail Spanberger, Lauren Underwood from Illinois, Elissa Slotkin in Michigan, they all have higher scores.

But when you stop and think about it, it could be that we have an antiquated measure of what impact means because Twitter does have impact in terms of public opinion.

GUTFELD: Yes. I mean, Dana, she got -- she didn't get any bills passed, but she got Amazon out of New York, and that cost New York thousands of jobs.

PERINO: Yes.

GUTFELD: I mean, she doesn't need to pass a bill.

PERINO: Consequential. But I do think that actually this -- I think that she should assign her staff to do a better job of helping her get some things passed. You know, just basically have some solid base hits so she can continue doing what she's doing. That's what staff is for. They should help you on that front.

But also, this isn't her fault. This is Nancy Pelosi's fault. Think of all the things that were held up so that President Trump wouldn't have a win, including COVID relief. So, you can't really pass bills if Nancy Pelosi is preventing you from doing so.

GUTFELD: Katie, what do you -- what do you make of her? I mean, at one hand -- on one hand, she doesn't pass the bill, but she's pushing the party -- she's pushing the party in the direction she desires, right or no?

PAVLICH: She's about to pass -- she's about -- OK, she introduced the Green New Deal.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PAVLICH: Then, Kamala Harris in the Senate co-sponsored it. It's about to get passed as Joe Biden's infrastructure plan in some way or form. So, she may not have her name on the legislation, but she has pushed the party to the left, and she is a highly effective activist. And she's going after Democrats in their primaries to continue pushing the party to the left. So, don't underestimate her. She's not stupid.

GUTFELD: It's going to be really crazy when I run up against her for President in 2028.

JONES: Well, your show can. She doesn't have her own show, Greg.

PAVLICH: She had an Instagram live, Greg.

GUTFELD: All right, "ONE MORE THING" is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: It is time for "ONE MORE THING." Greg, what do you got going on tonight?

GUTFELD: Well, I'm going to a wedding. No, actually, my new show starts tonight at 11:00 p.m. which is why I'm wearing this suit because my wife is adamant about me upping my wardrobe. Even though I've been doing Red Eye -- not Red Eye, THE FIVE and the "GG SHOW" for years, she didn't seem to mind. But now, it's really, really important. And as you could tell, I have to do something about this.

But it's going to be very exciting. We're going to have some surprise guests, including somebody who might be at this table or this table. And we're going to have a live studio audience which is going to be very interesting, a much smaller -- a much smaller group. I have no idea what that's going to sound like, but I'm hoping that they laugh a lot. And if they don't, they will all die. No, I will -- but anyway, wish me luck. I think it's going to be great. And tune in. It's after -- it's after Laura. It's going to be great.

PAVLICH: Good luck.

PERINO: Best of luck to you. It's going to be great.

JONES: Congratulations, Greg.

PERINO: It really is.

PAVLICH: It's going to be awesome. I'm really excited.

PERINO: Hey, in honor of that, it's -- there's a -- there's a sale on, 15 percent off at the Fox Store. You can get some of these hats, FIVE cups, also the Animals Are Great collar and leash. I mean, who doesn't want that, right?

GUTFELD: I wear one.

PERINO: 15 percent off. You go to shopfoxnews.com and use Fox spring and you get 15 percent off. Check these ladies out there, nurses at NYC Department of Health vaccine pot in Brooklyn. They gave out vaccines on Easter and they made it fun. These are all full-time school nurses and they sacrifice their time in order to do this which is awesome. All right, Juan, your turn.

WILLIAMS: It's very nice. Hey, happy 11th birthday to my grandson, Eli. And I've got an April birthday coming up too, Dana. So, we had a cross- generational birthday party this weekend. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: I'm 11 years old. I'm 11 -- how old are you? You might be -- I think you're 67.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: My daughter made another amazing birthday cake. Eli's birthday is days before mine. So, as a joke, she made a cake with a calendar on it that reverses the date, has my birthday coming first. Here's Eli opening one of his gifts. And here he is with his -- here we are with his twin sisters. Happy birthday, Eli. We're so proud of you, young man.

PERINO: Yes. And your birthday will be Saturday.

PAVLICH: Happy Birthday.

PERINO: Lawrence, you have something that's 20 seconds long?

JONES: No, I don't. No, I don't. Have a good show, Greg. I'll be watching you.

PERINO: What about Katie? Do you want to wish Greg good luck?

PAVLICH: Yes. Good luck, Greg, on your new show. I'm really excited for you. We'll be tuning in.

GUTFELD: Thank you, guys. I couldn't have gotten a new show without you, people.

WILLIAMS: Go, Greg, go.

PERINO: That's right. All right, that is it for us.

PAVLICH: We'll remember that.

PERINO: We'll see you back here tonight. But up next is "SPECIAL REPORT." 

END

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