This is a rush transcript from "The Five," July 21, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Greg Gutfeld, along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Bob Beckel, Jesse Watters, and she shoots pool with a bread stick, it's Dana Perino.
This is "The Five."
GUTFELD: As wreckage gets moved, belongings get rifled and bodies get tossed into trains, victims' families must wonder if there's anything is left: a grandmother's ring, a husband's wedding band, a child's bracelet?
Meanwhile, the separatists may be in possession of the black boxes, which is like trusting Charlie Sheen with your drugs.
And so, the world waits for us as we wait for President Obama.
Without America in charge, the world is a headless bird squawking in a field of ghastly realities: downed planes, kidnapped girls, ISIS attacks. The world has always been bad, but as its best policeman embraces life in mall security, the globe is now more worm and less apple.
Do you think Putin minds when that shining city on a hill kills the lights and announces they're in for the night? We vote "present" because anything tougher might incite a response. "It's not our fight," we say about all fights, which is why there are more fights.
But the globe won't move unless we move it. If the world were a classroom, America is not that back-row stoner riding a hazy case of senioritis. He is the star QB, straight-A class president that gets others involved by going first.
But if you'd rather steer clear, you better get used to the suffering, because technology will grab every gory, horrifying detail. Hang back if you like, but the vacuum left behind will be filled with screams no iPod can mask.
Jesse, welcome to the show.
JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: Thank you.
GUTFELD: Looking stellar as ever.
WATTERS: Kind of look like you.
GUTFELD: Well, you know, it works.
For me, it's not about culpability yet. It's about taking control of a situation where we can protect the dignity of the dead and evidence of a crime scene. What do you make of that?
WATTERS: Yes, it is a crime scene. It's a human tragedy. And it's a war crime. And the president has really done nothing.
Something you said about sleeping policemen jumped out with me. First of all, I love that you have profanity in your column. That's very provocative. I enjoy that.
The sleeping policeman -- Obama is uncomfortable being the policeman, because he thinks most policemen act stupidly. Remember what he said about his friend getting busted in Cambridge.
And he wants it both ways, because they think -- you said in the article, internationally, his hands are tied, remember? But domestically, he's this unilateral president who can do whatever he wants, and he can act outside of the Constitution. He can't have it both ways. And when you say he votes present, remember in the Senate when he was a state senator in Illinois, he voted president (ph) 129 times. That's not showing the courage of your conviction.
I think the world wants to rally around this guy. This is a moment we can rally around this guy, and all he's done is saying today -- you know what, you invaded Crimea, here is a slap on the wrist. And now, all of a sudden, they're shooting down planes and innocent people are being killed. And he's saying, you know what, if you do this again, you're going to face further isolation.
I don't think Putin is scared of that.
GUTFELD: Bob, do you think we are being too hard on him? Or is he -- I asked you this before about the idea of playing it cool somehow to I guess maybe to express the idea that we're not fazed by this. However, it seems to me it is like he's afraid to ruffle Putin's feathers, because he's afraid of what Putin might do, which always puts us on the back foot.
BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: You know, diplomacy and world affairs are very complicated. Now, they weren't during the Cold War because there were two sides, two very clear sides. You're either with us or USSR.
I would venture to say when people talk about securing this crime scene, how in the world are you doing that without putting American soldiers on the ground, it's impossible. And I would go a step further -- I think all these issues that are around the world today, if Ronald Reagan were president, they would still be there, and there would be no answers to them, unless you wanted to commit United States forces on the ground in Nigeria, in Egypt, go on down the list. Do you want to do that? The American people don't want to do that, we don't have the money to do that.
And the idea of leadership -- what does leadership mean in all this? When Obama tried to get people to do sanctions, none of the rest of the Europeans were willing to do it. Now, they're thinking about it. I repeat one thing I said last week, this is the worst nightmare Putin could possibly have. This is the beginning of the end of his expansion (ph).
GUTFELD: I would like to think so, because his poll numbers are still really high in Russia.
BECKEL: -- polls in Russia.
GUTFELD: Yes. I mean, they have state-run media, so they don't know what's going on half the time. And they believe the Ukrainians shot down the jet.
Kimberly, what -- if Russia is the culprit, we can do things. We can bring back a missile defense system. We can put troops in Eastern Europe.
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Right, like strategic defense initiative and we can also show some leadership. The problem is in the skies over Ukraine this past week, we saw the consequences of Obama's policy, leading from behind.
That's my opinion, Bob. You have your turn.
BECKEL: OK, OK, you're right.
GUILFOYLE: And that's the problem.
And I don't think Putin is back on his heels or worried about it, his poll numbers are good. This is about oil. This is about access to the Black Sea. And he's not going to stop until he gets it. He is going to do whatever it takes to put his country in the best position possible. Hence, Crimea, now Ukraine.
He's not sorry. He's not worried or running out to hire a Madison Avenue PR firm to fix this for him. He's the problem solver.
Look at his military and intelligence background. This is a ruthless man that believes in no problem with collateral consequences or damages, as long as he's able to achieve the goal.
And unfortunately, he has absolutely no respect for the United States or for the president or for Secretary Kerry, or any of that group. How do we know? Look at his actions.
GUTFELD: Dana, in the media, you hear you don't want to put Putin a corner.
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: I do.
GUTFELD: But doesn't that fear paralyze the West? This is why we will never ever -- he doesn't have any respect for us because we're scared of him?
PERINO: It seems to me Putin used to be swayed by public opinion, his reputation in the world, but I don't -- something seems to have changed, I think maybe after his last election when he became president again.
GUTFELD: He's wrestling the tiger.
GUTFELD: I think she's right.
PERINO: Or the bear, so to speak.
PERINO: I think something you said is very important, and that is the state-run media in Russia. They say things on air constantly about the Ukrainians being a Nazi Party.
PERINO: They are told that they are evil.
All of the information that is broadcast out of Russia is that the Ukrainians are to blame.
GUTFELD: Right, and Western-backed.
PERINO: So, what is what's interesting, and backed by the West, absolutely.
So, after -- in 1988, excuse me, Bob, you know more about this than I do, when the Pan Am flight was blown up over Lockerbie, Scotland, the West really pulled together, closed ranks and they isolated Libya and they did that fairly rapidly.
You can't -- it's not apples to apples necessarily, but I do think that in this case, you see some strong rhetoric from our ambassador, Samantha Power at United Nations. I don't know if it is a strategy for the White House comments from the president not to match up with strong rhetoric from Samantha Power at the U.N., but seems to me it might be able to help if they could make those two match up and back it up with action, could help the policy position to get Europe to try to take the lead.
BECKEL: Do you know that you said the president of the United States was responsible for the downing of this airplane?
GUILFOYLE: No, I didn't say that, Bob.
BECKEL: Yes, you did. If you go back and listen to the tape, you said that plane was down because Obama's weakness.
GUILFOYLE: I did not.
BECKEL: Yes, you did.
WATTERS: I don't think she said it. But I think the point she was trying to make, Bob, she's saying, if you have diplomacy, it only works with threat of U.S. military action. Series after series of the president with empty talk --
BECKEL: Putin is not a threat. Sitting in a broke country that's got some oil, he went to Georgia awhile, got kicked out. He went to Crimea, he will stay there.
WATTERS: Putin is not a threat? OK, fine. That's what the Obama administration believes and he's shooting plane --
BECKEL: Why do you think he is a threat?
WATTERS: He is invading other countries.
BECKEL: He's not invading other countries. That's bull.
WATTERS: He didn't invade Crimea?
BECKEL: He invaded Crimea.
WATTERS: OK. So, he invaded other countries.
BECKEL: That's one country. Now, you said countries.
WATTERS: OK, just one country. OK, fine.
BECKEL: You said countries, name some others.
BECKEL: You don't have facts. That's the problem. You make this guy a bigger guy than he is.
WATTERS: OK, Bob. Listen, he's meddling in Iran, allowing them to nuke up. He's enabling Assad to gas his own people. I consider him a threat. I think the president does, too.
PERINO: I think that there is -- let me, if I can just thread a needle here. There is a lawless environment in that area -- OK, that is a problem. There are irregular soldiers like mercenaries, the Russian mercenaries.
PERINO: They have scorn for international norms and rules, they don't care. And they were not -- it was not Ukrainian, it's all the evidence ties back to the Russians providing the weapons, possibly the intelligence, and maybe even pulling the trigger. To me, that means culpability. I don't think a ceasefire is enough. I think complete withdrawal of those three things from Ukraine is an absolute must for the world to be able to move forward.
BECKEL: And the world being willing to join the united states in sanctions, which they're not willing to do, they're worried about the flow of oil and gas. I go back to what I said.
PERINO: But that is the role of the president to be able to persuade them. Why isn't that on --
BECKEL: He's tried, he's tried. Merkel finally buckled a little bit over the weekend, but they're scared to death about losing their energy supply. And that's the real problem.
Now, I mean, I don't know -- what do you expect, if the United States were to send more troops or more boats and aircraft carriers in the Mediterranean, do you think in Nigeria, they go oh, how scary that is?
GUTFELD: I think one of the first things we can do, is we are cutting defense to pay for entitlements. We know where that's going to end up. Bob, we're going to end up becoming like Europe, incapable of defending ourselves in the next 20 or 30 years.
BECKEL: We are the largest military force in the world, including every country combined cannot meet our military --
GUTFELD: You're watching China change dramatically.
BECKEL: That's right. And you know I have been strong on the Chinese. I think we ought to deal with them first.
GUTFELD: Yes. But our military assets have become weaker as we cut defense. We should be going the opposite direction.
BECKEL: Our military assets have gotten stronger and stronger and stronger. It is time they'd be cut back in certain areas.
WATTERS: But why don't we then use military assets to help Ukraine? We give them MREs, food --
BECKEL: What are we going to do?
WATTERS: Why don't we supply weapon systems and things to combat these, quote-unquote, "drunken thugs" in Eastern Ukraine?
BECKEL: If you don't think the CIA has put more weapons in there, then you're --
WATTERS: But they're not doing a good enough job, Bob, because they're winning in Eastern Ukraine.
BECKEL: Yes, they are.
WATTERS: I think we could do a lot more. And I think the Ukrainians would like us to do more, because they have asked us to do more.
GUTFELD: I want to go to sound on tape of our secretary of state on I guess this we can talking about the president's handling of this. Roll it.
And then I'll go to you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF THE STATE: The fact is that the United States of America, George, is more engaged in more places in the world, and frankly I think to greater effect than at any time in recent memory.
I think the American people ought to be proud of what this president has done in terms of peaceful diplomatic engagement, rather than quick trigger, deploying troops, starting or engaging in a war of choice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: So, he is doing the same thing, he is saying you are either a warmonger or you're this relaxed person who engages in tough language and token sanctions. But if you go any -- over that a little bit, you must be a warmonger.
GUILFOYLE: Yes, I don't see how it helps anything. I don't think it resolved any of the rhetoric, communication between us and the Russians, I don't think that he did anything today to help the situation at all.
BECKEL: Do you expect him then to go into the Ukraine with military assets? Do you think you expect him to go to Syria with military assets? Go into Nigeria?
GUILFOYLE: I didn't say that.
BECKEL: No, you can't. There's no answer to this.
GUTFELD: Yes, there is. There is an -- there are answers, there are plenty of them. Number one, there are 12 nations that are affected by that plane crash. We are the best coalition builders in the world. We've built coalitions that have driven back armies.
GUILFOYLE: Not anymore.
GUTFELD: And we don't do that anymore. If we took those 12 nations and went in there and we did, we led the investigation. That would be a victory.
GUILFOYLE: But nobody asks us, Greg.
BOLLING: But how get in there to lead the investigation, Greg?
GUTFELD: I have seen reporters rifling through people's belongings!
BOLLING: But to do a really serious investigation of a crime scene or an airplane crash scene, you have to have access to it, and you have to be able to do it --
PERINO: That's what you said that after Benghazi as well.
WATTERS: Remember, four months to go into the Benghazi crime scene. Where were they then either?
I think this is a way to kick for them to kick the can down the road.
BECKEL: Oh, come on.
WATTERS: They were waiting for the IRS investigation, waiting for the V.A. investigation.
BECKEL: You think that is happening if you went on --
WATTERS: Why don't they send investigators in? Because --
BECKEL: Because how the hell are they going to get there? How do they get there when they got people shooting at them?
WATTERS: You said we're the most amazing army in the entire world.
BECKEL: People are being shot at.
WATTERS: You said we have the most amazing army in the entire world, and now you say we can't go to the Ukraine?
BECKEL: No, we can't.
WATTERS: You can't have it both ways, Bob.
BECKEL: You want to put them on the ground in Ukraine? If you want to be a warmonger in the Ukraine, do it.
GUTFELD: Boys, boys --
WATTERS: This is exact same straw man the president --
BECKEL: That's bull shit.
WATTERS: Doesn't mean I'm a warmonger. It just means I want to protect the crime scene there.
PERINO: You know what's amazing?
The urge to defend President Obama is like overtaking everyone's common sense and sensibility.
PERINO: I tell you what? The world deserves a better policeman than one that can only fight and defend a president who really should at this point be able to build a coalition to at least secure a crime scene.
GUTFELD: Yes, that's all it is. We're not talking about invasion.
GUILFOYLE: But he can't, and that's what I'm talking about. The world doesn't have faith and confidence in us to have their back to lead with consequence, meaning coalition build. Do something so people don't go ahead around the world terrorizing, like we're seeing ISIS taking over in Iraq, in Syria, Christians being murdered, Boko Haram kidnapping and raping children.
It's got to stop.
GUTFELD: All right. On that note --
BECKEL: Tell us how to do it.
GUTELD: You can't say what are you going to do, Bob, because people are actually answering.
OK. Next, Americans stand behind Israel, does the administration? John Kerry backed Israel's offensive against Hamas, but off camera, he was caught on a hot mike -- who's that? -- criticizing the mission. You can see the tape coming up.
PERINO: It's Monday.
All right. President Obama also addressed the crisis in the Middle East in his Rose Garden statement today. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: As I've said many times, Israel has a right to defend itself against rocket and tunnel attacks from Hamas. I've also said, however, that we have serious concerns about the rising number of Palestinian civilian deaths and the loss of Israeli lives. And that is why it now has to be our focus and the focus of the international community to bring about a ceasefire that ends the fighting and that can stop the deaths of innocent civilians, both in Gaza and in Israel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: Secretary of State John Kerry just arrived in Cairo to help negotiate a ceasefire. Something he said off-camera about Israel's operation made its way onto the air yesterday and our Chris Wallace questioned him about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KERRY: It's a hell of a pinpoint operation. It's a hell of a pinpoint operation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right, it's escalating significantly (ph). Just underscore the need for ceasefire.
KERRY: We've got to get over there.
CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS HOST: You said it's s a hell of a pinpoint operation. Are you upset that the Israelis are going too far?
KERRY: It's tough. It's tough to have this kind of operation. I reacted obviously in a way that, you know, anybody does with respect to young children and civilians, but war is tough, and I said that publicly and I'll say it again.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
PERINO: And in a new interview with Bret Baier coming up, Israel's prime minister says any blame for civilian death should fall entirely on Hamas.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: This is the cruelest, most grotesque war that I've ever seen. I mean, not only does Hamas target civilians of ours and hides behind their civilians, it actually wants to pile up as many civilian deaths as possible. So, if there's any complaints -- and there should be -- about civilian deaths, they belong, the responsibility and blame belongs in one place, Hamas. I don't think anyone should get that wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: You will see more of that interview tonight on "SPECIAL REPORT" with Bret Baier.
Greg, let me ask you something, because I -- talk about a communications of it all. I long had a theory that no one, Republican or Democrat, should ever do five Sunday shows, because something will go wrong. You should do one, hit it out of the ballpark, and make the other ones cover it.
But there was also a tweet this weekend that is lending more of a concern about the administration's approach. I actually think that Senator Kerry handled the hot mike situation fairly well because praise in public, criticize in private, maybe should have known the hot mike was on. But Twitter is a different thing all together.
The undersecretary for public diplomacy, Richard Stengel, tweeted yesterday something about the crisis, and then he hashtagged, #unitedforGaza. He then retracted that and apologized.
When you have Twitter, people on Twitter that are in diplomacy, it might be better to just get off it all together.
GUTFELD: Everybody in government should get off these social networks. This is a -- we are a world power. We are not a middle class slumber party where Josh is going to go braid Jen's hair and then go egg Tommy's house. There's wars involved.
And what's happening was like, things are said on Twitter actually are driving policy because if it doesn't sound cool on Twitter, it is probably not a good thing. So, they would never do that about Israel but they would do it about Gaza. You know -- I don't know, it just --
PERINO: Let me ask you something -- let me ask Jesse something about that criticism of Israel, that their operations have been disproportionate. What's interesting, though, is that Hamas and Fatah, when they made that agreement, their alliance, I think that's where you saw more aggression taking place there, all of the money, talk about disproportionate, in Gaza, basically what they have is all proactive weapons, weapons they can send out. They don't have ways to defend themselves, Israel does.
Do you think that whole criticism of being disproportionate is unfair to Israel?
WATTERS: Absolutely. I mean, despite what John Kerry said, these are pinprick strikes. If anything is more restrained in terms of the ratio and the proportionality of a counterattack, it's Israel and Hamas. Imagine if Canada was lobbing 200 missiles over to Massachusetts and everybody was in bomb shelters in the entire state, do you think the United States wouldn't just go hog wild on Quebec and just wipe it off the face of the earth? Of course they would.
And the fact that the media is showing all these dead civilians, that's exactly what Hamas wants, because that's the only way they're going to get United States and Europe to come in and say stop doing this, and that's the only defense Hamas has, and Iran wants that and we are feeding right into it.
PERINO: Bob, people might be surprised but maybe shouldn't be that the secretary of state announced that the United States will provide an additional $47 million to help address the humanitarian crisis in Gaza.
Help people, explain why that's in keeping with past practice.
BECKEL: Well, we have been doing this for a long time at the Israelis' request, I might add.
But I think -- I don't usually agree with Netanyahu, but I think he has a strong point here. The deaths in Gaza are laid at the feet of Hamas. They're not at Israel's feet. And Hamas has decided that they're going to leave their population, even though Israel has dropped leaflets, has made phone calls to get people out of there. The Arab League, the Egyptians both offered a ceasefire, and Israel accepted and Hamas hasn't.
If Hamas is not willing to honor a ceasefire from the biggest Arab countries, then it is proper and right for Israel to go and take out their capability.
PERINO: Kimberly, put it in a broader perspective if you could about the entire region, the country that doesn't get enough blame in this is Iran for having provided Hamas all these weapons and the money and resources to do what they're doing.
GUILFOYLE: Certainly. I mean, they should be addressed and strongly and nobody is doing that because unfortunately we're lacking the diplomacy and the influence in that area that we should have to be able to effectuate a positive outcome.
Unfortunately, Israel, who's one of our strongest allies are in a position with their hands tied behind their back essentially with no allies to support them. They have every right to be able to defend themselves and defend their people against terrorists, and we shouldn't condone actions by terrorists, especially when Israel is trying to do the best they can to secure their country and protect their people.
Keep in mind, that this came in the aftermath of three boys being murdered and buried in shallow graves. What were they supposed to do? Exercise restraint? No. They have to do something to be able to establish their position, send a message, and be able to have people of Israel sleep well at night knowing that they have a leader that will defend them and protect them.
And by the way, we'll do it with the eye toward having the least amount of civilian casualty.
BECKEL: Just so I am not accused here of another -- just because you said they condone -- who condones Hamas' action? You said somebody condones it, Israel has their hands tied, has no allied support.
GUILFOYLE: I'm saying that the United States and any world leader should not condone the actions of terrorists, and in this particular case, Hamas, being the terrorist, because they murdered three young boys, that should have consequence.
BECKEL: I agree with that. Where does the United States condone --
GUILFOYLE: And I agree with the position that Israel has taken, and the way they have chosen to address the situation.
BECKEL: I agree. Where does the United States condone Hamas' action?
GUILFOYLE: That's leadership. That's what I am talking about.
BECKEL: Where do they condone that?
GUILFOYLE: We should be standing up and supporting Israel and Netanyahu, and unfortunately, we have not done so in the past, and the relationship with Israel -- again, one of our strongest allies -- has been severely jeopardized. We have shown Netanyahu disrespect in meeting when the president has met with him and this is not acceptable. And now, we are seeing the outcome of that as well.
BECKEL: Can you answer my question? Where did we condone Hamas?
PERINO: We have to go, guys.
GUTFELD: Well, one area where it is condoned or sympathetic is in our media. I think that no longer should Hamas have the luxury. You know, whenever Hamas bombs something, it is always dismissed. It is not a very good bomb.
PERINO: It's also the photographs.
PERINO: Most of the photographs from the Israelis are ones are aggression. Most of the ones in Gaza are ones of suffering.
GUTFELD: With suffering, yes.
PERINO: So it is never the reverse, at least in mainstream media.
GUILFOYLE: But it's propaganda.
PERINO: That is a problem.
GUTFELD: But, see, now, the last Hamas attack killed over a dozen Israeli soldiers, now the media cannot be so sympathetic to saying that these guys aren't good at it. They killed a bunch of men.
PERINO: -- hoping to get better.
GUILFOYLE: Oh, they're not that good a terrorist.
PERINO: We're going to have to run.
Coming up, national guard troops are soon to be headed to secure the Mexican border, but President Obama is not the one sending them. We're going to tell you who it is, next.
GUILFOYLE: If President Obama isn't sending troops to secure the border, Rick Perry will. Today, the Texas governor announced his plans to deploy 1,000 troops from the National Guard.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. RICK PERRY (R), TEXAS: I will not stand idly by while our citizens are under assault and little children from Central America are detained in squalor. We are too good a country for that to occur.
That is why today I am using my executive authority as governor of Texas and activating the National Guard. I've directed Adjutant General John Nickels to immediately prepare for deployment up to 1,000 of his troops in support of the Department of Public Safety's on-going surge operation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: OK. So strong words and rhetoric, backed up by action, Jesse, from Governor Perry.
WATTERS: It's about time. And these guys are force multipliers. They're going to go down, because the regular Border Patrol is busy changing diapers and making sandwiches for these minors. And it's about time, because it's getting deadly serious. We had some Border Patrol agents over the weekend in Texas being fired on with 50-cal rifles. It's a very dangerous situation.
We had a guy who tried to come across. The Border Patrol caught him, caught and release policy under President Obama. They let him go, and he wound up in Louisiana getting picked up on kidnapping and murder charges.
This is because the federal government has failed to protect the border, and it's about time. I remember Bill Richardson in New Mexico, the Democrat, did the same thing, and it's effective for the time being.
GUTFELD: Well, every major crisis -- I've said this before -- around the world -- Israel, Ukraine, Iraq -- it's about a border. Still, the president here fails to see the importance of -- the value of a border here. He thinks borders are people that live upstairs.
And he's got -- he actually doesn't see it as a crisis, because I think he sees the influx of new citizens as an opportunity to dilute the nationalism and the exceptionalism of the United States, because he thinks, Bob -- Bob's -- bob, are you having a coronary? Wake up. Because he has a different view of the way America is. He doesn't like the way it is now, and he wants to change it. He sees this as a way to change it.
But it is amazing how every crisis erases another one. If you think from IRS to V.A. to Bergdahl to ISIS to the border to the Ukraine, it would be cool if Obama was a multi-tasker, but he's not even a single tasker. That's why they keep being erased.
GUILFOYLE: Oh, my goodness, that sums it up -- Dana.
PERINO: Well, this is not unprecedented action. In 2006, President Bush sent 6,000 National Guard troops to -- not just to Texas but all the border states, called upon other governors to help pitch in for that.
Then in 2010, President Obama also sent National Guard troops. I'm not sure why President Obama did it then and doesn't want to do it now, but Rick Perry has the ability to do that as governor.
The National Guard, however, in my opinion, is for emergencies, and should be temporary, and unless there is a policy change, I don't see how this situation continues to be temporary or an emergency. It could be that this is just a stop-gap measure for -- that Governor Perry is using to try to help, as he said, the public safety entities that are already there.
But I would again just make sure people understand, this is not unprecedented. National Guard troops have been used to good effect before by both Obama and Bush.
GUILFOYLE: Yes. And Governor Perry saying there can be no national security without border security. It seems to make sense.
I mean, we also need to protect the children by not making it so easy, with such a porous border that everybody can go over. That families that are suffering are giving any solid (ph) they have to these coyotes and these drug dealers to try and get their children across the border.
Do something. We do bear some responsibility to secure the border and not make it such an attractive nuisance that everybody wants to just walk on over without any negative consequences. I mean, this is the problem, I think, Bob.
BECKEL: Well, let me just put a couple of facts out here. The Border Patrol, the number of Border Patrol agents has doubled under Obama.
The amount of fence that's been built for border security has increased more under Obama than anybody else. He has sent the National Guard down there before.
Rick Perry could have done this before, till he wanted to make a grandstand of himself.
Some of those comments about taking care of diapers and the rest of that stuff is just unfair to...
GUILFOYLE: It's true.
BECKEL: I thought it was unfair to the Border Patrol people.
GUILFOYLE: No, they're putting -- they're putting...
BECKEL: The fact of the matter is...
WATTERS: Unfair to make them do that, you're right.
BECKEL: And to suggest that Obama does not care about this, I think is really not...
GUILFOYLE: Who is saying that?
WATTERS: Hold on a second. Hold on a second.
WATTERS: The Washington Post -- The Washington Post over the weekend did a huge story that said for two years this administration was warned about this huge migration of these minors into this country, and they ignored it one year. They ignored it the next. And actually behind everybody's back, they secretly funded these facilities, and then even advertised for jobs at DHS to help the minors come across, and they did it.
And this is what The Washington Post said, they did it because Obama's re-election was too important, and they wanted to pass comprehensive immigration reform. That's not what I said. That's what your Washington Post said.
BECKEL: You're saying that they advertised for jobs for these...?
WATTERS: In January 2014 they advertised jobs for DHS agents to deal with an expected 60,000 illegal alien minors coming across. So the fact that the Obama administration all of a sudden says, "We were surprised by this" is just not true.
PERINO: And in addition to that, just to add to that, asking the American people for another $3.7 billion to deal with an emergency that they actually could see coming is what I think is difficult.
But more than that, I heard today that the White House isn't even backing its own bill, because Democrats on the Hill pushed back against it. So now what they're asking for is just a clean $4 billion to help deal with the crisis with no policy reform. And I think that contributes to people having less confidence in their government.
BECKEL: I would just say that Obama has put more resources, more money, more people on that border than any other president.
PERINO: And is he that bad of a manager that then it can't -- to no effect? I mean, is the incompetence so great that that's why we have...
BECKEL: Drug traffickers.
GUILFOYLE: You've got to do more, then. That wasn't sufficient. If somebody is bleeding out on the operating table, get in. Put all hands in, anything you can do to stop the bleeding. You don't sit there and say, "Well, I tried one time, but now it's just still really bad." Because that's what you're saying. Then do more.
GUTFELD: I mean, what's going on is reflecting greater ideology. You can't just say, you know, he's sending people back when legal immigrants are getting driver's licenses. I mean, we are -- we are making -- we are creating new rules for people that are...
BECKEL: Ushers (ph).
GUTFELD: I know. But these are undocumented, to use the politically correct phrase. So we're creating pull factors for people from other countries to come here, because they know they can get all of the benefits for free.
GUILFOYLE: Wouldn't you?
GUTFELD: Unfortunately, there's no better country than the United States for me to flee to.
GUILFOYLE: Right. That's right. Somebody else needs to step up and be awesome, too.
All right. Next, the widow of a chain smoker just won $23 billion in a lawsuit against the tobacco company for the death of her husband. Has personal responsibility gone up in smoke? We will debate ahead.
WATTERS: Michael Johnson Sr. from Florida died of lung cancer in 1996 after two decades of chain smoking. Nearly two decades later, a jury just awarded his widow $23 billion in punitive damages. The company that has to pay up, R.J. Reynolds tobacco.
The case is one of thousands filed in Florida after the state supreme court tossed out a $145 billion class action verdict in 2006. Stuart Varney sat down with the plaintiff's lawyer earlier and asked him about the case.
STUART VARNEY, FOX NEWS: Should we be trying to put tobacco companies out of business with a lawsuit?
WILLIE GARY, ATTORNEY FOR SMOKER'S WIDOW: We should send them a message, that they can make a safer cigarette. They may make a few less dollars, and they should do it. You have to give people a right to make an informed decision.
VARNEY: Everybody knows that...
GARY: Not everybody.
VARNEY: How could you not know?
GARY: What about a ten-year-old?
VARNEY: How many die of cirrhosis of the liver because they drink alcohol?
GARY: You cannot withhold information about the product that's detrimental and people rely on it to their detriment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Kimberly, we'll start with you for a legal perspective.
WATTERS: No one put a gun to this guy's head and told him to smoke two packs a day. This guy was, you know, in his 30s. He was warned about this on labels his whole life. I'm sorry he died. I'm going to put that out there, but is this going to be returning? Don't they understand personal responsibility in the courtroom?
GUILFOYLE: Answer: no, they don't understand personal responsibility. Be very careful when you pick juries. A lot of the juror on this particular case were very young.
GUTFELD: Crazy. They were crazy. They were mentally ill. Sorry.
GUILFOYLE: OK. So perhaps there are some issues there with life experience and not understanding the gravity of making an award like this.
And yes, you choose what you do, what you drink and what you eat and who you spend time with, et cetera, et cetera. So in this case, I think they went way overboard, and I do believe this will be severely reduced or overturned by the court.
WATTERS: Thank God. Bob, let me ask you a question. Maybe you can reconcile this for me. The left wants to basically bankrupt big tobacco, but the west also wants to legalize marijuana. You're a smoker. Can you explain that to me?
BECKEL: I smoke cigars, which is slightly different. But I don't think they want to bankrupt tobacco companies, but there was a huge national verdict against the tobacco companies. I take it this 136 billion that Florida turned down was their share of that?
GUILFOYLE: Yes, I mean the problem -- there's a precedent established to show that awards like this are disproportionate, cannot be kept, and they have to be kept as a matter of public policy, because then you're going to have everyone suing for unthinkable...
BECKEL: But didn't they -- didn't they have a huge class action against the tobacco company...
BECKEL: ... so they offered up, and Florida refused to take it. I don't think this is going to stand up. I think the fact is the guy already got 17 million, his estate did. I don't know what more they need.
WATTERS: Is this a slippery slope? Are people going to be going after big alcohol, big sugar?
PERINO: Big cars. Big cars is my example. So if I bought a Porsche and I drove it 116 miles...
GUTFELD: You should go after Big Wheels. If you have a Big Wheel, which you go around town in.
PERINO: I was racing my Big Wheel really fast, and I've been told not to, and I kill somebody and I killed myself, would Big Wheel be in trouble or would I be the one that was responsible for that?
WATTERS: I think you would.
PERINO: Big engine. A powerful car.
GUTFELD: All right.
WATTERS: Greg, what do you think?
GUTFELD: OK. This is actually hysteria, when you think about this, because this is so far beyond what's considered mentally stable. They are in the thrall of punitive hysteria.
This is like when -- this is like fainting spells among school kids, you know what I mean, or like the witch trials. This is insane. This is where the concept of everything in life traces back to these litigating ninjas that just create these incredible settlements. It's got -- it has to stop.
And also, I hate the idea of sending a message. Justice is not about sending a message. It's about basically punishing somebody for a specific act. You want to send a message, you write a book, make a phone call.
You don't punish somebody to send a message to a community at large, because that's unfair to the person you're punishing. It's completely wrong. You don't comment on the larger phenomenon; you punish the single person. This is sad, strange, weird, and it's destroying society, and it may make me take up smoking again.
WATTERS: Looking to back up?
GUTFELD: Coming up, the world's second richest man says the rest of us are working too much. Find out what he's suggesting we do to change our lives. And it's right up Bob's alley, next.
BECKEL: The world's richest -- second richest man had some advice for all of us. I think we should listen to them.
Carlos Slim -- can't believe that name -- is worth more than $80 billion, according to Forbes. He just said at a business conference that we're all working too much. I agree. Slim thinks our workweek should be slimmed down to three days instead of five. The day should be longer, 11 hours and you probably have to retire a little later. I think that there's something to be said about this.
Granted the guy is a gazillionaire, but Jesse, don't you think that, well, you don't work that many hours, but...
WATTERS: No, not at all.
BECKEL: ... if -- if you add this up, that's 33 hours a week, and then you have the extended retirement, so it may work out to 40 hours.
WATTERS: It might even out in the end, but I think Slim's trying to save his own skin here. He's the richest man in Mexico. Do you know how dangerous that is? If there's a revolution, they're coming for his castle with pitchforks.
WATTERS: So I think he's trying to show -- throw a little sugar to the peasants, make them feel like he's on their side so, you know, when hell breaks loose, he'll be able to skin...
BECKEL: I wonder if he goes back to Mexico. I bet you he doesn't.
WATTERS: Under heavily armed guard.
BECKEL: Yes, for sure.
GUILFOYLE: He sort of doesn't want anyone else to catch up to him.
WATTERS: That's true.
GUILFOYLE: Work three days a week.
WATTERS: It's like when you play sports against some guy, and all of a sudden he takes the lead, and then he's like, "All right, game's over."
GUILFOYLE: It's not like Bill Gates, wanting to say, "Hey, stay home. Call in sick.
BECKEL: But the bigger issue is are we working too much -- Dana?
PERINO: I think that there is scientific evidence that would show that, if people had more time not working, that they could be a little bit more productive. That doesn't mean sitting on the couch playing Candy Crush. Give you more time to exercise or spend time with family, I think that's fair.
BECKEL: That's exactly what I do with my free time.
PERINO: I also think -- Bob, when you say people would have to work just a little bit later, I think if you told people that this is his plan, but you'd to work until age 75, that people wouldn't be for that. I'd rather work earlier now and not have to work till I'm 75.
GUILFOYLE: This is what the Google guys are saying, right? Who is...
BECKEL: Who's the richest guy in the world?
GUILFOYLE: I don't know, right?
BECKEL: I don't know either. The second richest...
GUILFOYLE: Was it Gates? It was Gates, boy.
GUTFELD: This argument is made by somebody who's unencumbered by the consequences of not working. The most important step out of poverty, emotionally and physically, is work. Every day, we have to wake up, fill ourselves with achievement or we feel empty the next day. So he can say us all this wants. I -- you say you're going to stop working. You're not going to stop working. Working till -- everybody should work until 75. You could...
PERINO: I say I would.
GUTFELD: You look at men who retire, they die.
PERINO: OK, but I think he's talking about people who work in a mine or manual labor. I think that is maybe...
BECKEL: We got to get out of here. We've got to get out of here. Listen, I work three hours a day, and it's very helpful. I mean, look at me. I have time to exercise...
GUTFELD: I wouldn't call that work, Bob.
GUILFOYLE: Yes, exactly.
BECKEL: "One More Thing" is up next.
GUILFOYLE: Thank God.
GUTFELD: Time now for "One More Thing." Let's go to Ms. Dana Perino. Hey, Dana.
PERINO: Thank you. I'm glad to be here.
GUTFELD: Glad to have you here. Just get to it. Stop wasting our time.
PERINO: OK. Remember last week we were talking about soccer but now we're talking about cricket. Because the cricket team of England, they are really upset and scared, because they think that their hotel in London is haunted, the Lang (ph) Hotel is haunted.
One of their bowlers, Stuart Broad, said, "It was so hot in the room, I couldn't sleep. All of a sudden, the taps in the bathroom came on for no reason. I turned on the lights, and the taps were turning off by themself. It was very weird; I was freaked out."
He's asked to move rooms. The whole team apparently is in a shambles because they don't think that will do well against...
GUTFELD: Why do they dress like resort waiters?
BECKEL: You talk about a loser sport. There it is. Soccer ranks better than that.
GUTFELD: It's actually fun. They have these really high scores, like 400-2. It's neat -- Kimberly.
GUILFOYLE: OK. I don't know any cricket dudes. But the night's young.
In a great moment today for America, President Obama bestowed the medal of honor on Staff Sergeant Ryan Pitt. Look right there. This is a brave American who was the last man, last soldier alive in a brutal, vicious insurgent attack in Afghanistan. He took heavy fire, and he was able to finally, then, radio in he was the last one alive.
President Obama also acknowledging in a very special way all the fallen soldiers that died that day that this young man survived and asking their families to stand in honor of a grateful nation for their service and the losses of their loved ones.
GUTFELD: All right. Me, I haven't banned a phrase in a while. So let's ban a phrase: spot-on. This is a British phrase.
BECKEL: You never did that?
GUTFELD: No, I didn't. I never did "sport on." Spot-on, it means exactly correct.
PERINO: I like "spot on."
GUTFELD: I find it very annoying. Ooh, spot on. Shut up! The only time you see spot-on is when you see an aroused dog.
BECKEL: Does "spot off" mean you're not right?
PERINO: What does that mean?
GUTFELD: "Spot off" means you're going to a dermatologist and you go, "I need this spot off."
Where am I right now?
GUILFOYLE: Who are you?
GUTFELD: I don't know. The pills kicked in. I'm seeing four of you. Have I gone to you yet, Jesse?
WATTERS: I don't know. I think you should stay on.
All right. So if you saw the top of the show today, Bob and I got a little heated, but that's nothing compared to what happens on Jordanian television.
So, I just want to say no matter how emotional Bob and I get, we would never throw chairs at each other. I promise to never throw a chair at you.
BECKEL: Don't be so sure. All right. My "One More Thing" is...
GUTFELD: The Starship Enterprise.
BECKEL: The world has just had its hottest June on record since they've been keeping records since 1880, and this is the 353rd month in a row where the heat index around the world has made a record, in a row. So -- but it's nothing -- nothing to do with global warming. Nothing to do with that. It just happens to be, I don't know, a lot of people burned fires. I don't know.
WATTERS: Well, there you go.
BECKEL: There's a reason why we -- sun spots. That's what it is. Sun spots.
GUTFELD: Articulate argument for climate change right there.
Maybe one of these days we could do it as a segment, so you don't have to do it as "One More Thing," so we could respond to it.
BECKEL: I knew that was going to...
GUTFELD: Talk about the actual global pause. I guess I should...
BECKEL: I didn't interrupt your "One More Thing."
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