• With: Dr. Ben Carson

    This is a rush transcript from "On the Record," September 20, 2013. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

    GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: An Ohio clinic touted by President Obama while he was promoting health care reform now slashing its budget, the Cleveland Clinic pointing to ObamaCare as not the only reason but one of the reasons. So is this just the beginning? Are we going to see the cost-cutting trend at hospitals nationwide?

    Pediatric neurosurgeon Dr. Ben Carson joins us. Good evening, sir.

    DR. BEN CARSON, PEDIATRIC NEUROSURGEON: Good evening.

    VAN SUSTEREN: To what extent can we assign these -- the sort of slashing or budget cuts or problems at the major medical centers like the Cleveland Clinic, or even your hospital, Johns Hopkins, I mean, to ObamaCare? What's the impact of ObamaCare on them?

    CARSON: Well, what ObamaCare has done simply is decreased remunerations while increasing the responsibilities. So obviously, that's going to be a conflict. And it means that something's going to have to go.

    And you know, this is not surprising at all, what's happening at the Cleveland Clinic. And it's not the first place where this is going on. It may be the first time that it's become very public, but virtually all the major medical centers and the community hospitals are suffering from the same thing.

    VAN SUSTEREN: You know, it's interesting. You wrote an op-ed in The Washington Times, you know, discussing ObamaCare. And what struck me is that -- you know, I think, universally, everyone agrees we had to do something with our health care system, something -- but you referred to -- (INAUDIBLE) almost take the skin off the supporters of ObamaCare.

    You say that, I suspect they" -- meaning the American people -- "would be horrified to witness the manipulative and secretive strong-arm techniques utilized by the current administration to push through ObamaCare. I'm sure they would also be shocked to see an administration that picks and chooses the laws it wishes to enforce, thereby diminishing the power of the legislative branch of government." And then you compare it to the Soviet Union.

    CARSON: Yes, because, you know, the founders of the Soviet Union ran into opposition, as well. And they felt that they knew better than the people did, and if they could force upon the people their way of thinking, that the people would eventually come to accept it. And this is basically what's going on with ObamaCare.

    The vast majority of Americans are not in favor of this. And you know, I thought that America was supposed to be for, of and by the people. I thought it was supposed to be people-centric and not government-centric. And I think there are a lot of other Americans who agree with me on that.

    And you know, if we sit by quietly and don't challenge the expansionist philosophy of this government, then pretty soon, we will have something very similar to the Soviet Union, where the government is in every aspect of our lives, controlling everything that we do. And we simply sit there and watch. We can't do that. And I don't think we're going to do it, quite frankly.

    VAN SUSTEREN: Well, in reading your article, your op-ed -- and correct me if I'm wrong, it's your words, not mine -- what I sort of thought from your article is that you were blaming the Obama administration and telling the legislative branch to man up, that the Obama administration was usurping, taking power, picking and choosing, and that the legislative branch had caved in. Am I wrong in taking that away from your op-ed?

    CARSON: No. Basically, what I'm saying is that we have a system of checks and balances. And the reason that that was put in place is because the founders of this nation felt that there may come a time when one of the branches of government -- and they were most afraid that it would be the administrative branch of government -- would become expansionist and would forget about the Constitution, would begin to do everything that it wanted to do and disregard the will of the people.

    And in the situation like that, they placed a mechanism whereby the legislative branch could stop it, and that mechanism needs to be triggered. It needs to be activated. We need to be doing the things that the people are in favor of, not some ideological group of people who think that they know better than we do.

    VAN SUSTEREN: It's so unclear to so many people, you know, what's going to happen once the health care -- ObamaCare kicks in. I'm curious, is it your prediction for the average person who has, you know, a serious illness, is ObamaCare going to result in more affordable care to that person and just as good a care or maybe even better?

    CARSON: No. You know, what do you need for good health care? You need a health care provider and you need a patient. And what we've got now is a system where the third party has become the main entity with the health care provider and the patient at its beck and call. ObamaCare only increases that situation. It does not return the responsibility to the patient and to the provider.

    So in that situation, it's just going to get progressively worse until we actually recognize who we are as a nation and that we're supposed to have some personal responsibility, that we're supposed bring every system, including the health care system, into the free market economy, then we're going to have these kinds of conflicts.

    We need to decide who we are. Are we for, of and by the government or for, of and by the people? This is something that we need to take a stand on. This health care debate is a perfect place to take a stand on. And even if it's lost, we need to make it very clear who are the people who are jamming this thing down the throats of the American people. And then the American people have to act the next time there's an election in a very definitive way.

    VAN SUSTEREN: Dr. Carson, thank you, sir.

    CARSON: My pleasure. Thank you, Greta.