This is a rush transcript from "On the Record," October 25, 2011. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: Tonight, Donald Trump tweeting about President Obama. This time, though, he's not accusing the president of doing a bad job, he's accusing him of not working at all.
We spoke with Donald Trump about it a short time ago, but first we asked him about another campaign controversy that isn't over yet.
VAN SUSTEREN: Donald, nice to talk to you.
DONALD TRUMP, TRUMP ORGANIZATION (Via Telephone): Hello, Greta.
VAN SUSTEREN: I've got a lot -- a long list today of questions for you, a lot of topics. Let me start with...
TRUMP: You always do, Greta. You always do.
VAN SUSTEREN: Well, this time, I wrote them all down.
TRUMP: Well, that's good.
VAN SUSTEREN: Anyway, Governor Rick Perry said that he had dinner with you recently and that you do not believe the president's birth certificate is real or not. Is the governor correct that you don't believe it? I thought that you were satisfied.
TRUMP: No, I'm not a major believer. I mean, I don't know how it just miraculously appeared, and we'll see what happens. But I'm never -- I've never been a major believer. All of a sudden, after years and years, it was produced out of nowhere. Some people have serious, serious doubts as to its validity.
And I frankly really want to get on to much more important subjects, although that's a very important one because if, in fact, it's not 100 percent, he's not supposed to be the president of this country, which is a pretty important fact.
But nevertheless, I want to talk about jobs. I want to talk about the economy. I want to talk about how China and OPEC and others are ripping us off. But I'm not a fan.
VAN SUSTEREN: I thought last April that it was finally put to rest with you?
TRUMP: No, no, never to rest. I'm at a point where I say, Look, the country is going to hell in a handbasket, and something has to be done about it. And we shouldn't be talking about the birth certificate. But people love to talk about it.
For instance, it's your first question. I guess at a luncheon or in an interview, Governor Perry had mentioned that I said that I'm not a big believer, and I'm not. I mean, you know, people look at the hospital. There are no records that his mother was ever there. There are many other things that are really suspect.
So you know, out of -- after years of Hillary wanting it and McCain wanting it and everybody wanting it, and I put the big pressure on, all of a sudden, it appears. And people have real questions about the validity.
Now, I don't want to talk about that. I want to talk about jobs. I want to talk about how to get this country great again. But I'm not a big fan.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Well, I actually -- I'm convinced it's the real deal, so you know, that...
TRUMP: Well, that's good. I'm glad you are. That's OK. And some people are and some people aren't. And you know, I'm just not as easily convinced.
VAN SUSTEREN: OK. The other thing, you're very active on Twitter. You just tweeted recently, "Does Barack Obama ever work? He's constantly campaigning and fund-raising at both the taxpayers' dime and time. Not fair."
What provoked that?
TRUMP: Well, it is not fair. I mean, I watch television every night, he's making speeches, he's taking Air Force One and all of the great planes that we have with huge crews and huge amounts of security and limos and everything else all over the place. He's not paying for it with his campaign, and yet he's campaigning.
And I think it's very unfair. I mean, Air Force One, which is a 747 airplane, a Boeing 747, costs hundreds of thousands of dollars an hour to fly and hundreds of thousands of dollars an hour just to sit at airports. And why isn't he paying for this? I mean, he's going all over the place. He's campaigning. That's all he does is campaign. He ought to focus -- he ought to sit behind his desk in Washington and get the country properly running again.
VAN SUSTEREN: Does it make a difference to you if, A, the campaign pays for part of it -- it's part official business, part campaign -- and B, that that is what presidents have historically done? My guess is that President Bush 43 likewise, because when he traveled to fund-raisers, he had to travel on Air Force One, but I'm under the understanding that campaigns pay a share of it and the taxpayers, for any official business that's done along the way, pay that.
TRUMP: Well, nobody's ever done it like this. I've never seen anything like it. I mean, he's constantly out campaigning, and he'll make a speech and he'll make another speech. They're campaign speeches.
I mean, there's a different between work and campaigning. Now, campaigning is work, too, but that's work that he should be paying for out of his -- all the money that he's raising from I don't know who because it's hard to believe people are contributing, but out of all of the money that he's raising.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Flat tax versus "9-9-9," compare and contrast. Tell me, you know, which you think is a wiser idea or not such a good idea, which do you think is more likely to pass, which is a better strategy. Tell me what you think.
TRUMP: Well, there are a lot of different concepts of taxes, including the one we currently have, if you take away deductions and simplify it. But the code is so complex right now, it's thousands and thousands of pages, and simplification would be a fantastic thing, even if you took the existing code, and that starts getting into the flat tax.
The only problem I have with the "9-9-9" -- and I like Herman very much, but the sales tax I think is going to be a little bit tough on people of middle income and lower income status. I really think the sales tax aspect of it is pretty tough for them to handle.
VAN SUSTEREN: What if there were some sort of modification? And I don't know if there is -- for instance...
TRUMP: Well, it's very hard to modify that because how do you tell somebody you can buy so much stuff? I mean, it's very hard to modify the sales tax aspect of the 9-9-9. You know, what you need is simplification, and ultimately, a flattening out of the tax, and that would be a very positive thing for the country.
Too complex, too many pages, too many rules and regulations that are just -- I mean, it's a very, very complicated tax. It's too much so. And people don't do things and they don't do deals and they don't do business because they don't even understand their own tax code.
VAN SUSTEREN: I read someplace that Warren Buffett pays 17 percent on his earned income, not capital gains but earned income. I pay 35 percent. The flat tax that Governor Perry is suggesting at 20 percent would be a tax cut for me, but it'd be a tax raise for Warren Buffett.
TRUMP: That's true.
VAN SUSTEREN: He got a 3 percent tax raise.
TRUMP: That's true. That would be right. And it's very simple. It's a very simple tax, that's true. A lot of people like the idea of the flat tax because it's a simplification.
VAN SUSTEREN: Well, the interesting thing is, you know, you can pay more taxes if you want, which, of course, is the criticism of Warren Buffett, who has been complaining about -- about the very wealthy not paying taxes.