Nikki Haley is going to stumble in South Carolina: Rep. Thomas Massie
Rep. Thomas Massie, R-Ky., joins ‘Fox News Sunday’ to forecast the 2024 presidential election as GOP candidates continue to trail Donald Trump by a wide margin.
This is a rush transcript of ‘Fox News Sunday’ on January 21nd, 2023. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
SHANNON BREAM, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: "FOX News Sunday" is live in New Hampshire just two days before the first in the nation primary.
I'm Shannon Bream.
The GOP candidates are making their last pitches to voters.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: She's not going to make it. She has no chance.
NIKKI HALEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If he thinks I have no chance and I have no hope, then why is he running millions of dollars of ads against me?
BREAM (voice-over): After a record-setting showing in the Iowa caucuses, the Trump campaign targets Nikki Haley and rolls out a big endorsement from her home state.
SEN. TIM SCOTT (R-SC): We need Donald Trump!
BREAM: While Ron DeSantis shifts his focus away from his poor polling in New Hampshire.
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There's a lot of real estate between now and the South Carolina primary in terms of political time.
BREAM: Ahead of the vote, we'll bring in key surrogates for all three campaigns -- South Carolina Congressman Ralph Norman for Nikki Haley, Kentucky Congressman Thomas Massie for Ron DeSantis, and Ohio Senator JD Vance for Donald Trump.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is no better place to see retail politics to look in their eyes and understand where they come from, why they're here.
BREAM: Then, the House and Senate find a financial band-aid in a short- term spending bill to keep the government up and running for now. But the tug-of-war to secure a deal on the southern border and aid for Ukraine and Israel hangs in limbo.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): There will be no money for Ukraine, no money for Israel unless you stop the abuse of parole.
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: We understand the necessity about Ukraine funding and we want to say that the status quo is unacceptable.
BREAM: Our Sunday panel weighs in as the speaker faces growing pressure from the left and the right.
Plus, Biden not on the ballot in the Granite State. We'll go behind the effort to get him votes anyway.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Even though Joe Biden is not on the ballot in New Hampshire, that we're going to write him in.
BREAM: All, right now, on "FOX News Sunday".
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BREAM (on camera): And hello from Bedford for a special New Hampshire primary edition of "FOX News Sunday".
The Granite State has been where the Haley campaign has hoped to make their mark in this race with some recent polling showing her closing the gap with the front runner, former President Trump. But brand new numbers out this morning show he is widening his lead here in New Hampshire over Nikki Haley to 19 points with Florida Governor Ron DeSantis trailing the pack at a distant third.
While Republican hopefuls vie for 22 delegates two days from now, zero delegates are up for grabs on the Democratic side, after a heated dispute between the DNC and New Hampshire over which state gets to cast primary votes first.
In a moment, we will be joined by a surrogate for the Trump campaign, Ohio Republican Senator JD Vance.
But, first, we have live team coverage on the ground. FOX News senior national correspondent Rich Edson in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, where DeSantis has sent much of his staff already, and FOX correspondent Alexis McAdams in Manchester, New Hampshire.
We start with Alexis.
Good morning.
ALEXIS MCADAMS, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Shannon. Good morning from Manchester, New Hampshire, where we can tell you, everywhere you look, you can tell it is about to be primary time here in the Granite State. You see those campaign attack ads on a local TV stations and fliers all over town. And voters are noticing as these candidates make their final push.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCADAMS (voice-over): The final countdown is on in the Granite State.
(CHEERS)
MCADAMS: And as those rallies rage on, former President Trump continues to dominate the race. But former South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley has been more competitive here, leaving Florida Governor Ron DeSantis trailing behind.
TRUMP: New Hampshire will never let us down.
HALEY: We've got to start getting this right, New Hampshire can be the solution.
DESANTIS: We'll be back in different parts of New Hampshire and look forward to being able to do first in the nation.
MCADAMS: New Hampshire has been first in nation primary state for more than a century and every four years, it sits in political spotlight, a role that New Hampshire Governor Chris Sununu, who has endorsed Nikki Haley, says voters take seriously.
As your dad has said, Iowa picks corn and New Hampshire picks presidents. Is that still true?
GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU (R), NEW HAMPSHIRE: That's what he said. I think our main role is to narrow the field.
MCADAMS: But Trump is watching those polls closely. The former president working to maintain momentum, adding another endorsement, this one from South Carolina Senator Tim Scott and still slamming his competition.
TRUMP: Nikki Haley will never secure the border or stop the fentanyl that is killing thousands and thousands of New Hampshire citizens.
NEIL CAVUTO, FOX NEWS HOST: What do you think is going on?
HALEY: I mean, it's what he does. This is what he does when he feels insecure. This is what he does when he feels threatened. I worked with him, I know exactly how he is.
MCADAMS: The ongoing fight for those undeclared voters has been a major focus. Registered Democrats cannot vote in the Republican primary and vice versa, but undeclared voters can. At nearly 350,000, they make up the largest voting bloc in the state.
But no matter what their party, they care about the same issues.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Immigration, illegals coming across the border.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think the economy right now with the interest rates that went up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gun rights, immigration and foreign policy.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCADAMS (on camera): And officials say Shannon they expect record voter turnout in New Hampshire on Tuesday -- Shannon.
BREAM: All right. Alexis McAdams live here in New Hampshire, thank you very much.
So, Ron DeSantis is currently more than 800 miles away in South Carolina trying to boost primary chances in Nikki Haley's home state.
FOX correspondent Rich Edson joins us live from Myrtle Beach, South Carolina.
Hello, Rich.
RICH EDSON, FOX NEWS SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Shannon.
Well, the primary here is nearly five weeks away. Governor DeSantis says he is returning today to New Hampshire and with that travel, the campaign says he's cancelled a handful of television interviews. They say he'll reschedule them. The Trump campaign maintains those cancelled appearances show that the end is near for the DeSantis campaign.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DESANTIS: When I got off the plane, I didn't know whether I was in South Carolina or New Hampshire because it was 30 degrees.
EDSON: Florida Governor Ron DeSantis's campaign says they are wasting no time taking the fight to former Governor Nikki Haley's home state. DeSantis opened his swing through South Carolina fielding questions from voters in Myrtle Beach, promising to declare emergency at the border and slash the size of the federal government.
A campaign aide says the pressure is on Haley to win her home state and if not to get out of the race.
DESANTIS: I think pretty clearly there's just too many conservative voters here for someone like Nikki Haley to win the state. I think that that's -- that that's obvious.
EDSON: Haley has maintained this is already a two-candidate race, between her and the front-runner, former President Trump. To this trip, a Haley spokesperson says that South Carolina is a great state and they hope DeSantis's team enjoys their vacation time here.
HALEY: He's been invisible in New Hampshire. He's been invisible in South Carolina. He's closer to zero than he is to me in either one of those states. But that's his choice if that's what he wants to do.
EDSON: The DeSantis campaign denied it's skipping New Hampshire, pointing the governor was there Friday, and says he'll return ahead of this week's primary after investing millions and months in Iowa and finishing a distant second and just ahead of Haley, and aide tells FOX the DeSantis campaign is moving the majority of its staff here to South Carolina, a state where Trump has polled well, as he's done across the country.
In endorsing Trump, Senator Tim Scott joins fellow senator from South Carolina, Lindsey Graham, and the state's governor, Henry McMaster.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
EDSON (on camera): DeSantis has no events listed today for South Carolina. He has a campaign event tonight in Manchester, New Hampshire -- Shannon.
SHANNON: All right. Rich Edson reporting in South Carolina, thank you, Rich.
So, here in New Hampshire, I've been talking to voters as they get ready to head to the polls on Tuesday. These are savvy consumers. They've heard from the contenders. Many of them multiple times. You're going to hear from these voters throughout the show today.
Here's one of our first chats.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BREAM: OK, Lois, what I find interesting is that you went to the Trump event, you waited outside in the freezing cold, in the snow. You're here at DeSantis event but you're voting for someone else?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I'm voting for Nikki.
BREAM: What was the difference with her that she won you over?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No baggage.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BREAM: Joining us now is the surrogate for the Trump campaign, Ohio Senator JD Vance.
Senator, welcome back to "FOX News Sunday".
You heard what Lois (ph) told me there. She said there's no baggage with Nikki Haley. That's something I've heard again and again from people here who are opting not to choose President Trump as their primary choice in New Hampshire.
What's your argument to them about what Nikki Haley continues to say from the campaign trail is a choice for chaos?
SEN. JD VANCE (R-OH): Well, first of all, Shannon, I think Trump is way out ahead in New Hampshire, but also nationally. That's very important to remember.
But I guess my response to that voter would be, Nikki does have baggage. She just hasn't faced the onslaught of years of media attacks, of super PAC attacks that Donald Trump has faced. And, frankly, the fact that Trump is still standing and is still leading in the polls against Joe Biden suggests he has real political resilience.
I know a lot of people who are choosing Nikki Haley think she's the low baggage candidate. In reality, she's the candidate the Democrats haven't teed off on, but they will tee off on her if she's the nominee. She won't be, but if she is, she will face exactly what Donald Trump has faced for the past six years.
And I don't think she'll survive, and I certainly don't think she'll win the presidency through it. That's why we need to elect the guy who's shown some resilience. That's why we need to nominate Donald Trump.
BREAM: Well, we'll see what voters decide here. So, let's break this down a little bit more because others I talked to follow this argument about how Nikki Haley does head-to-head against President Biden.
Here she is making that point in one of her routine points now in campaign stump speeches.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NIKKI HALEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's going to be a nail-biter of an election. We're going to go end up holding our breath again. I'm in every one of those same general election polls and I beat Biden by 17 points.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BREAM: It's something that's resonating with people here. Here are a couple voters I talked to that made that point, as well.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BREAM: Tom and Linda (ph), OK, have you made a decision? Are you here to get more information? Where are you guys at?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think we are here to get more information, but I'm sort of leaning towards Nikki.
BREAM: OK, why?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think she's got the best chance to beat Joe Biden.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BREAM: Okay. You've seen the polls, not all of them are the wide range that Nikki Haley cited there, 17 points. Most -- most of them are closer, but she is in all the head-to-head polls involving the GOP, the one who seems to do best against the president.
So, what do you tell those voters who say that's why they're choosing her?
VANCE: Well, first of all, Shannon, I just saw a Rasmussen poll just yesterday that suggested that Donald Trump did better against Joe Biden than Nikki Haley does. I don't think that's true of anything close to the majority of the polls.
But again, I go back to something I said a little bit earlier, Nikki Haley has not faced the Democrat and media machine for six years. And we have to ask ourselves, not what polls will say today, but what do polls say when Democrats run ads saying that Nikki Haley wants to slash your Social Security so that she can send more money to foreign countries?
That is exactly what they're going to do because that is, in fact, what Nikki Haley says she wants to do out on the campaign trail.
We have to remember negative ads --
BREAM: Well, the --
(CROSSTALK)
VANCE: -- and the messaging behind them, Shannon, if I can just finish --
BREAM: Yeah.
VANCE: -- they really do make an impact. And we have to ask ourselves who's the most resilient candidate in the face of the Democratic machine? I don't know how anybody can look at the last six years and say that's anybody but Donald Trump.
BREAM: Well, to be fair, I don't think on the campaign trail, she's telling people that she's going to cut Social Security to send money to other countries, but -- and we pressed her on this, she does talk about potentially raising retirement age for people now in their 20s entering the system. So, definitely talking about changes to entitlements and her foreign policy breaks with the foreign president, as well. We'll talk a little bit more about that.
In the meantime, Governor DeSantis is out there saying there's a reason that people want President Trump to win and he thinks it's to benefit the other side. Here's his take.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They are invested in a Trump nomination because they want the election to be about the legal issues, the criminal cases, all these things. The liberal media likes it because they know that will help the Democrats.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BREAM: So, polls do show that the president would lose some support from folks who say now that he would be their choice if he is convicted, innocent until proven guilty. We've got a long way to go on that road.
But with that in mind, do you tell GOP voters this is a gamble that you're going to have to take, how do you convince them it's worth it?
VANCE: Well, Shannon, I just -- I'm sorry, I just don't think that Ron's point passes the smell test there. They're trying to do everything that they can to remove him from the ballot. Even moderate Democrats are coming out and saying some of the tricks that they're using against Donald Trump don't even pass constitutional muster.
So, the idea that the Democrats want him to be the nominee when they're throwing everything against the wall to throw him off the ballot, it's insane, nobody actually believes that. I think broadly speaking, Republican voters recognize not only was Donald Trump a good president in the past, he'll be a good president in the future and he has survived the machine.
I've tasted a little bit of this. Most Republican politicians taste some small piece of this. Trump has faced an onslaught of character assassination, hundreds of millions of dollars, maybe billions of dollars of attack ads. Surviving in the face of that is maybe the most important signal of whether you are a winning candidate and I think Trump has survived it better than anybody I've seen in politics.
BREAM: OK. We've got a couple of fresh polls out this morning. We've got the Suffolk poll that puts President Trump at 55 percent, Nikki Haley at 36, DeSantis at 6.
But we've just got this CNN poll that has it much closer. Trump at 50 percent, Haley at 39 percent, DeSantis again at 6 percent.
You know here the largest group in New Hampshire is undeclared. They can vote in the GOP primary. There are a couple of newspaper editorials today endorsing Nikki Haley, telling people if you're independent, get out, quote, save the country and vote in that GOP primary.
I mean, that's a substantial group of people here. How concerned are you about them showing up and not choosing President Trump on Tuesday?
VANCE: Well, Shannon, we have to draw a distinction between independent minded and New Hampshire voters. I think a lot of them are going to vote for Donald Trump, but also liberal -- many of them from Massachusetts who are moving to New Hampshire, they're never going to vote for a Republican nominee, even if it's Nikki Haley. They're just trying to play spoiler to Donald Trump.
But I think Republicans really have to ask ourselves, do we want liberal suburbanites from Massachusetts to choose our nominee or do we want to choose our nominee as Republicans and independent-minded conservatives?
I think if we choose our nominee, Donald Trump is going to win and he's going to win handily.
By the way, Shannon, this campaign strategy of getting liberals to vote for you in a Republican primary, it doesn't work nationally. It won't work in South Carolina. It won't work in Ohio. It won't work in most other states.
We actually need to select our nominee with voters who we can actually get, not with voters who are trying to play spoiler because they hate Donald Trump and they hate the Republican Party.
BREAM: Well, and Nikki Haley has said she does welcome the support of Democrats and independents, that we should have a big tent party, she argues, as Republicans. Does the President not agree?
VANCE: I think the President certainly agrees. In fact, I come from a party of sort of ancestral Democrats who migrated to the Republican Party in large part because of Donald Trump's message. But it's one thing to get Democrats who are open-minded to vote for you. And it's another thing to get Democrats who are never going to vote for Republicans to vote for you. I think we've got to be a big tent party, but with people who have an open mind, not with Democrats who just hate Donald Trump and want to play spoiler.
BREAM: All right, Ohio Senator JD Vance. Thank you for your time today. Good to see you.
VANCE: Thanks Shannon, good to see you.
BREAM: Up next, we've got surrogates from both the Haley and DeSantis campaigns as one contender decides to skip the Sunday shows and another celebrates a birthday on the campaign trail.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I respect Nikki Haley, I respect DeSantis, but they don't have what it takes at this time in history to be able to move this country back in its rightful place of opportunities, security and promise.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BREAM: That was one of the Trump supporters I spoke to here in New Hampshire. He told me he does like the other candidates, but he doesn't think they're equipped to handle our current challenges in the same way the former president is.
We are joined now by surrogates for those two Republican campaigns, South Carolina Republican Congressman Ralph Norman representing the Haley campaign. And Kentucky Republican Congressman Thomas Massie representing the DeSantis campaign.
We begin with Congressman Norman. Welcome. Good to see you this morning.
REP. RALPH NORMAN (R-SC): I'm glad to be with you, Shannon.
BREAM: OK, let's start with the two polls fresh out this morning. The Suffolk poll has got President Trump at 55%, Nikki Haley back by 19 points. We've got the CNN poll which has this closer, but still Nikki Haley backed by double digits in eleven percentage points. How does she change the conversation with 48 hours left to go here in New Hampshire?
NORMAN: Well, you know, the polls are one thing, Shannon, but what Nikki has done when she announced this February is basically showcase her vision for the country. She showcased her talent. And she's the only candidate that's gone up in the polls. She has not gone down. And she's attracting the crowds because people like what they hear. And Shannon, she has got the 8 factors. She attracts voters from all different sides because she's -- they like her and they like what she's saying, and her optimism.
And so, you know, what she will do in the remaining days in New Hampshire and what she'll do in South Carolina is continue what she's been doing, which is telling American people what her vision is and she'll deliver on it.
BREAM: Congressman, you heard what Senator Vance had to say, that she's trying to attract liberal voters and people who don't really care about GOP or conservative ideals. And it's not going to be a winning strategy in the general election were she to make it there. What do you make of his comments?
NORMAN: Well, I mean, Senator Vance knows you don't -- when you go in front of an audience, you don't ask, are you Democrat, are you Republican? No. You make the case for why they should vote for you. And that's what Nikki does and he knows that.
But Nikki gives people a reason to vote for her and that's what's so attractive about her and that's why she's -- that's why she's gaining. And, you know, people like what they see. And that's, again, the polls show that. And she'll do very well in New Hampshire. She'll do very well in South Carolina.
BREAM: So you were once a supporter of President Trump, so much so that you voted against certifying some of the electoral college votes on January 6. At what point and for what reason did you pivot away to now supporting one of his biggest rivals?
NORMAN: A couple of things. And I call President Trump. His policies were great. What he did was great for the country, particularly with what Biden is doing now. But it's time for a change, Shannon. I think the youth, Nikki just turned 52. She's 25 years younger than Donald Trump. I'm sorry, when you have a president like the pressures they're going to be facing, when you see what they're going to have to do to attract new talent into Congress and the Senate, you've got to go to work doing that. Nikki will do that.
And the other big thing that people need to know, Donald Trump can only give you four years. That's like a football team can only play half of the game. It's going to take eight years to get this country straight. But Nikki's youth and the fact that she can give eight years, and I would also make the argument it's really three years because the last year of a term is political like you're seeing now. And President Trump is going to be tied up in legal fights and we need somebody that can come in and work. And the criticism that he has of her, the only reason he's doing that is because she's gaining in the polls and he knows she is a serious threat and it's a two-person race now.
BREAM: Let's talk about one of those critiques because he says if you elect her president, you're going to have eight years potentially of war. Here's what he said the other night about her foreign policy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R) FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Nikki Haley is backed by the deep state and the military industrial complex. She's never seen a war she doesn't like.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BREAM: He called her a globalist. What's your response?
NORMAN: Then why did he pick her for ambassador to the United Nations? That's one of the greatest picks he made. If she was that, then why did she -- he praise her for her toughness, for the way she dealt in Israel, with the capital? No, that's just political talk and Donald Trump knows that. And the same thing, you know, he got her confused yesterday with Nancy Pelosi on the January 6 with the National Guard. And I would say 25 years ago he wouldn't have made that mistake but he kept saying, Nikki Haley did this, you know, with the National Guard. He was talking about Nancy Pelosi. And that's another example of -- again, he wouldn't have made that mistake if he was younger. But, I just --
BREAM: Congressman, let me ask you before you go, why are you one of the only elected officials in South Carolina who's backing her and why isn't she doing better in the polls there?
NORMAN: Well, I went with Nikki because I work with her. She and I came in the legislature in 2005. At the same time, I see what she can do, Shannon. She's a tireless worker and I know what she'll do for the country. And the fact that the polls -- she's the only one that's gone up and I think she'll continue to go up. That's why they're criticizing her like they are. And so, I don't make any -- any -- I don't have any problem with that. I like where we are. I like the fact that what she's doing. And I'll be with her in South Carolina as I was in Iowa and wherever she needs us.
BREAM: All right, Congressman Ralph Norman, thank you for your time this morning.
NORMAN: My pleasure.
BREAM: Joining us now, Congressman Thomas Massie. He is surrogate for the DeSantis campaign. Good to see you again, Congressman. Both the polls out this morning are pretty dire for your candidate. Both the Suffolk poll and CNN poll have Governor DeSantis at just 6%. There's a lot of talk this morning about why he canceled appearances on Sunday shows. Is it because he doesn't want to talk about these numbers?
REP. THOMAS MASSIE (R-KY): Well, you know, we never had high expectations for New Hampshire anyway. And Nikki's exploiting, you know, a quirk of their primary, which is that undeclared, i.e. Democrats, can vote in a Republican primary.
You know, we're -- I'll be going to New Hampshire later today, but the real fight I think is in South Carolina, and that's where Nikki Haley, I think, stumbles. She's going to miss expectations and not even win her own state.
BREAM: So let's talk about Governor DeSantis and the fact that he has tried to make his pitch in Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, everywhere he's been, in that he is a governor, he says, who gets things done. You asked me to do something. I have a success rate. Here's my legislative record. And he's contrasted that against both Governor Haley and also President Trump, saying there were a number of things that he promised that he didn't get done. Why do you think that isn't resonating better with voters? Is it a choice of policy versus personality? Why isn't that landing with voters?
MASSIE: Well, let me talk about that difference and talk about why it might not be resonating. First of all, you know, the main thing I hear from people back home is they're mad that nobody's held accountable in Washington, D.C. Well, I think we need to hold Trump accountable. He didn't build the wall. He didn't get Mexico to pay for it. He ran up $7.8 trillion of debt. He fumbled the repeal of Obamacare. There's so many mispromises.
He gave a commendation and award to Dr. Fauci after he shut down our country and hasn't held anybody at the FDA or the CDC responsible. So you know, let's hold that guy accountable. Contrast that with Ron DeSantis. He reduced the debt in Florida 25%. He fired the Soros DAs. He got all the wokeness out of their schools and their universities and he banned China from buying land there.
So he's got a great contrast. They don't want to talk about it. They won't debate him now. Neither Nikki Haley nor the president because his record is so stellar and they don't -- neither of them have much to run on. Why isn't it resonating?
I would say people have rallied to Trump's defense because he's been indicted four times. And, you know, I feel compelled to rally to his defense because that's an attack on all of us.
But here's the problem. You know, this summer we're going to be lit -- they're going to be litigating these cases in the court and these indictments are going to ripen into convictions. And we're going to be talking about the finer points of whether you can pay a porn star with your campaign money or whether you should write it off as a business expense.
I mean, the lawsuit itself is ridiculous, but the underlying facts aren't disputed. And I think people are going to kind of recoil from that when all that stuff starts coming out this summer. And the polls that show him beating Biden, those are going to switch very quickly.
BREAM: Well, a lot of folks I talked to here who are Trump supporters saying he's their choice for Tuesday here in New Hampshire say all of those cases against him only made them double down in their support. We'll see if that continues as this do progress.
You are one of very few people in Congress who's actually campaigning for someone who is not President Trump. You have said, quote, "It's a political risk." How much do you think all of those congressional endorsements in the neighborhood of about 140 at this point are about a fear of President Trump versus love his policies, love him, thinks he's the best candidate? What kind of price do you think you might pay if he wins?
MASSIE: Well, I've got the Trump antibodies. He came at me for opposing the CARES Act. I was the only congressman who did. I said it was going to cause inflation, that it would cause shortages. And oh, by the way, it funded the mail-in ballots and spent $2 trillion.
Contrast that with Ron DeSantis. He called me up while everybody was hating on me, including that president, and said, I'm going to open our economy and make sure our kids go to school. Now, Trump came at me and I won my reelection, so I'm not worried about it, but I think there are, a lot of those endorsements aren't wholehearted endorsements.
They're either afraid that he will get involved in their primaries, or they're afraid that if he does win, he'll be vindictive. You know, Ron DeSantis can work with anybody. And so there's no vindication expected from him after he wins, so that's -- you know, that's just the way it is. It's sort of bullying tactics from the former president.
BREAM: If he finishes third here as he is expected to do in New Hampshire and also in South Carolina, what's the future path for him?
MASSIE: Yeah, that's a great question. He was second in Iowa and she was third. She'll be second and he'll be third in New Hampshire. She's not even on the ballot in Nevada and Ron is. Then we go to South Carolina where she's going to lose this.
Look, I think what we're seeing is that the only way you can beat Trump is if it's a head-to-head race between two people. And the question is, is that person going to be Nikki Haley or Ron DeSantis?
Nikki Haley's ideology is somewhere in the zip code of John McCain, Mitt Romney and Liz Cheney, and she said that Hillary Clinton was her inspiration. She has a ceiling in these primaries that are closed primaries where only Republicans can vote of about 35%. She can't beat Donald Trump. Ron DeSantis can. And as I said, as these indictments matriculate into convictions and we start learning about the details in this stuff, his poll numbers are going to go upside down against Biden. And we'll see that Ron is the only one that can win in November.
BREAM: All right, Congressman Massie for the DeSantis team. Thank you very much.
MASSIE: Thanks, Shannon.
BREAM: Up next, we're going to bring in our Sunday group, including Bret Baier, who's got some scoop from President Trump.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BREAM: Why this time when, you know, the court cases, all these things, or did that make you feel like I want to support him even more? Was there any part of you that questioned whether he would run again or whether you'd support him again?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It made me more passionate to support him as I felt that there was a lot of political motivation in trying to get him out of the Washington, D.C. political arena.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I like Trump, I think he's too brash. And Biden, he is too old. So there's nobody else coming up to the plate like Haley is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In Florida, we love our governor and we think that he'd be a great president. We just love his ideals. We love his conservatism. We love his faith. We love his family. Everything he has done for Florida. We think he's going to do for the nation.
BREAM: And to be clear, Dennis is not voting here in New Hampshire.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
BREAM: But he happens to be here and wanted to come see his governor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BREAM: OK, so I've been here in New Hampshire speaking to voters ahead of the state's presidential primary on Tuesday two days to go. Poll show former President Trump is still the clear front runner, Nikki Haley in second, Ron DeSantis a distant third.
It's time to break it down with our Sunday group, former Tennessee Democratic Congressman Harold Ford, Jr. Fox News Chief Political Anchor and Anchor of special report on the Fox News Channel Bret Baier, Anchor and Executive Editor of the story on the Fox News Channel, Martha MacCallum, and Brit Hume, Fox News Chief Political Analyst. We got the A team in here. Big leagues. We're glad to see you guys this morning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good morning.
BREAM: OK, to Bret, last night you were out and got to have a little chat with former President Trump. We want to play a little bit of what you talked about many issues, but this is about the Veepstakes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRET BAIER, "SPECIAL REPORT" ANCHOR: You said in our town hall that you had an idea or you might have already decided about your VP pick. When do you think you're going to make that?
TRUMP: Well, it's never really had that much of an effect on an election, which is an amazing thing, both election and primary. It's never really had much of an effect. I may or may not release something over the next couple of months. There's no rush to that. It won't have any impact at all. The person that I think I like is a very good person, pretty standard. I think people won't be that surprised. But I would say there's probably a 25% chance it would be that person.
BAIER: Is Senator Tim Scott on the list now?
TRUMP: He's a great guy. He endorsed me. There's an example. Nikki comes from South Carolina. Tim Scott is from South Carolina. But if you look, the governor, great governor, another senator, Lindsey, we happened to like Lindsey, but Henry McMaster knows her very well. He endorsed me. It's very hard for a governor to endorse somebody when you have, you know, I mean, Henry McMaster was the lieutenant governor under her. And he endorsed me. Almost everybody in South Carolina has endorsed me. What does that tell you?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BREAM: So you ask about the vice president and then we get into the, you know, the critique of one of the current rivals.
BAIER: Yeah, we went through a lot of things actually in this interview and we'll be putting out a lot today. But in that VP thing he did say in our town hall that he had come to a conclusion. He knew who it was and maybe at some later point he'd tell us who it was, that he said there's a 25% chance, but that's a good person who he's thinking about.
I think his thought process overall, Shannon, was that he feels like he's in a good place. This rally here was really well attended, was really packed. He likes that thinks it's a poll in and of itself. And at the end of that rally, he brought out all of these South Carolina figures to say the next stop is going to be even bigger.
BREAM: So you got that. And I would agree the events I've gone to here that have been Trump focused events, even when he's not there, he's got a surrogate there, they're a packed house. So that is a measure of how people are feeling here on the ground.
You guys talked about cognitive ability, you talked about the legal fights, all kinds of things. And Martha, one of the things I asked these Trump voters about these legal fights, you heard the lady there who was like, oh no, it's made me double down even more on supporting him. They see it as -- well, his team has always seen it as a plus, not a minus?
MARTHA MACCALLUM, "THE STORY" ANCHOR: Well, I think that soundbite's extraordinary and I think it encapsulates a lot of what we hear from these Trump voters. They feel that they have a need to be there for him, right? They're saying, he's being attacked, so more than ever we need to be there for him.
And I would also just point out that in early 2023, Ron DeSantis was polling in first place in New Hampshire, OK? And what have you had in the interim? You've had all of these successive indictments and court dates and he went back for court dates he didn't even need to be at over the course of the last week. So he clearly knows, he's a very astute politician, that these are helping him. And you hear it in the soundbite from that woman.
BREAM: Yeah. So Nikki Haley here has, as she tries to woo these undeclared, we know it's the biggest pool of voters here in New Hampshire. She's tried to woo, "Politico" says this way, both sides. "She's got to deliver two messages, one to moderates who largely dislike Trump and another to conservatives who seem quite comfortable with him. It's an exercise in needle-threading under the best of circumstances." But she's gained on him here, but can she close this any further?
BRIT HUME, FOX NEWS CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: It looks like it does it. And, you know, the premise here is that the attacks against her are that she's attracting Democrats and independents who might not be normally Republican. Oh, heaven forbid that our nominees should be somebody who would attract voters from outside the party.
But that's the message that's coming against her now, and I think at the moment, you know, given what we're seeing in the polling and so forth, and given the reduced expectations announced by people who are supporting her here, that she's looking for second place, and she hopes it'll be closed, but it doesn't look that way.
BREAM: Well, Harold, on the other side of the ticket, President Biden's not even on the ballot here. There's been a lot of fighting. We're going to explain that a little bit later in the show about what will happen with the DNC. But he's got folks here saying, it could be very embarrassing to come out of this Tuesday with a headline that he lost the first Democratic contest though it is unsanctioned.
HAROLD FORD JR., FORMER TENNESSEE CONGRESSMAN: We'll see. Thanks for having me on. Happy Sunday. I think President Biden, the real takeaway, I think, right now for the Democrats are two things. First, the border security is the number one issue on Republican voters' minds, and I would even contend independent voters' minds, even if you're not a border state. The border states have been pushed north in this conversation, too.
The chaos around President Trump is not going to go away, not because it's not going to go away from the legal issues, but you have his two chief opponents, DeSantis and Haley raising this over and over again, and that will be used much like some of the things that Dean Phillips may be saying against President Biden will be used against him.
The Democrats are banking on two things, that women's health choice and women's health rights continue to be in the forefront, and two, that the economy continues to improve and consumer sentiment improves. If we find ourselves six months from now with a different kind of economic state and a mood on the part of the American voter, President Biden will be in a better position. But Biden has one big challenge.
A majority of Democrats wish there might be another person running on top of the ticket. I wish I was six, seven. I'm not. So I don't know if that will come true, and if that will cause them not to vote for Biden.
But I think what Brit said is what Democrats on the flip side are hoping for. We're going to be able to attract Independent and Republican voters who may be concerned about the chaos in the women's health issues. But if Donald Trump or whomever it is, is able to attract on the border, this is a jump ball come November.
BREAM: Well, you mentioned the issue of abortion, so we're around the time of year, we mark the anniversary of Roe v. Wade. The Supreme Court has gotten rid of it, but "AP" reports this. "President Joe Biden's reelection team is preparing a nationwide series of events and an advertising campaign focused on the battle over abortion rights. Highlighting what Democrats believe will be a potent political weapon against likely Republican nominee Donald Trump." Brit, they say it's worked for them in all these post-Dobbs elections.
HUME: Yeah, it certainly did work for them in 2022, I think. There are counter-arguments to be made. The Republicans have not really done it very well. I mean, because a lot of what Democrats support in terms of abortion is a position of abortion with such availability. It's so long through pregnancy that a majority of the country does not support.
So Republicans have a case to make. They just haven't made it. And unless and until they do -- it'll be a good issue for the Democrats. But it's not unrebuttable.
BREAM: Well, yeah, the President and Vice President both having events on that over the next few days.
OK, panel, do not go far. We will see you again in just a minute. But up next, senators are closing in, we think, on a bipartisan deal on the border. But it faces major opposition from the House GOP, and now former President Trump is threatening to blow up a bipartisan compromise. We get the panel's take on what comes next when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you turn that microphone off, please?
RONALD REAGAN, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: You asked me if you - I am paying for this microphone, Mr. (INAUDIBLE).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BREAM: That was Ronald Reagan leading up to the 1980 New Hampshire primary. George H.W. Bush had accepted a challenge to debate Reagan, which was moderated by "The Nashua Telegraph" but paid for by Reagan's campaign. In an attempt to take control of the event, the debate moderator asked for Reagan's mic to be cut, leading the future president to utter a line that went down in history.
We turn back now to the panel.
So, along with what's happening on the campaign trail, there are a lot of shenanigans in Washington as well. They're fighting over this Senate border deal. We don't know the contours. We think we have some idea of it coming together. But we're told it's dead on arrival in the House. And now potentially that the speakership of Mike Johnson is almost done. House GOP is the headline from "Politico" today. Already considering a future without Johnson.
So, Martha, can Washington get its act together?
MACCALLUM: Yes, good question. Mike Johnson finds himself in very much the same position that Kevin McCarthy was in. He gets in there. He sees the reality of it. He knows how slim the margin is in terms of what he can get across the - across the finish line.
But, you know, the issue that I think has become so compelling in this whole election environment and in Washington is immigration. I mean when you have people in urban centers across the country, heavily blue areas who are very upset about what's going on with immigration, they want more than just a deal that appears to basically throw some more money at the problem and continue to support Ukraine. So, I think it's become very troublesome. I mean I look at the morning show host, Charlamagne tha God, who is saying that working class people are very upset over this migrant crisis. The tenor on this issue has changed dramatically and I think it's - it's put Johnson in a very tough position.
BREAM: Yes, and - and you noted this has moved north, because I hear about it from voters all over the place here in New Hampshire. They are very worried about the border. Even though they're much closer to the north than the south, they are worried about what's happening down south.
You've got Congressman Dan Crenshaw talking about how there's this accusation that some Republicans are not going to let this go because they think it's a good issue for them and they don't want to give a win to President Biden. He's quoted as saying, how many hundreds of thousands of illegals would you allow in the country just because it might help your chance of the election. He says he ran on getting the border secure, Bret, and that if you're not working toward that end you're a traitor.
BAIER: Yes, and it's a tough, tough issue. I think there are a lot of people that want to solve it, but there aren't the votes to solve it. With that slim majority in the House, they want HR-2, which is the immigration bill that they passed. They would like that, not some watered-down - what they call watered-down Senate compromise. We haven't even seen the language of the Senate compromise as of yet.
It is a powerful issue. I thought it was a powerful issue prior to 2022. Abortion and threat to democracy turned out to be a bigger issue than we thought it would be. I think, to Martha's point, this has bubbled up to the top, not just for border states, but all over the country. And Democrats, to Harold's point earlier, are feeling the back end of some of these discussions. The White House does not have a good answer on these things.
BREAM: Yes. And, Harold, you've got Democrats begging and calling out this administration publicly. And that's a very difficult optic for this White House. At the same time polls show, from ours to everybody else out there polling this, that the president is a disaster on the border.
HAROLD FORD JR. (D), FORMER TENNESSEE CONGRESSMAN, EMPOWERMENT AND INCLUSION CAPITAL CEO AND FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: If there is a deal to be had, I served in Congress it seems like 100 years ago now, but it was only 20 years ago, we - we used to like to try to get the country to higher ground. And if you have an opportunity to pass new policies that are going to put more dollars at the border, reform the asylum process, put more law enforcement there, why wouldn't you do it? And for President Trump, it confounds me a bit, he's out talking about border - border security and immigration, but is encouraging Republicans to blow up the compromise.
Dan Crenshaw had it just right. I don't agree with Dan Crenshaw on a whole bunch of stuff, but he's exactly right, how many more illegals do you want to come in if - if it - if you believe you're going to advantage the other party by passing policy? You're telling me we won't arrest criminals because it's going to help Democratic mayors? You're telling me we won't put people in jail because you're going to help a Democrat run for Congress in the Senate. That's nonsense. If they get a good deal, they should pass it.
BREAM: Brit, will they? You've been watching for decades as it's not gotten fixed in Washington.
HUME: This controversy with the speaker's job on the line supposedly is a wonderful example of why the Republican Party is sometimes referred to as the stupid party, because what we have here is a tiny little majority, you can barely do anything, you only control one house, the other party has the Senate and the White House, more importantly. There's very severe limits on what you can ever hope to do. Here's a chance to do something, right?
And these guys who want the whole enchilada, everything they - they're - all their wish list on the border, which maybe if they had a full majority and the White House they could do, but you can't do it this way. And if you decapitate your leadership yet again after all this, I mean that really is the definition of politically stupid.
BREAM: Well, I can't imagine watching them go through more candidates, more rounds of voting, weeks and weeks of not having a speaker. So, we'll see if the threats materialize.
In the meantime, so the president is struggling on the border. He's also struggling on foreign policy. And one of the most recent poll on this has him way upside down. Quinnipiac on how he's doing, approve, 35 percent, disapprove, 59 percent.
And, Bret, this comes at the same time that people are now asking questions about how he's handling Israel, is there now daylight, more of it, between him and the prime minister?
BAIER: I think that that's a really big question. I think how the White House has handled Israel has actually split Democrats and a number of different constituencies.
And if you look around the world, at the hot spots that are happening, it is only increasing. It is getting more chaotic. So, as the White House campaigns against former President Trump about chaos, you look around the world and the Trump campaign says, remember the world under President Trump. That's their pitch. It wasn't as chaotic. I think there's a number of fronts where the White House is on the back end of some tough decisions here.
BREAM: Well, even Democrats will have to acknowledge the Abraham Accord, something that was really critical in the Middle East, so we know that this president, though, hadn't talked to Netanyahu we think for about a month. AP saying this, "The leaders' relationship has increasingly shown signs of strain as Netanyahu has repeatedly rebuffed Biden's calls for Palestinian sovereignty, gumming up what the U.S. president believes is the key to unlocking a durable peace in the Middle East. The oft-sided elusive two state solution, which, Martha, this week the prime minister said, not going to happen.
MACCALLUM: Not going to happen. He said the security of Israel wont' allow for a two state solution at this point. We know there have been some frosty conversations. The ones that have happened between the White House and Netanyahu. One of them ending with this conversation is over apparently on - on the part of President Biden.
I think, you know, the president has not - and it's not the first time this has happened -- articulated where he stands on this issue in a way that is helping Americans and his voters, Democrat voters, independent voters, understand where he stands on this. The other thing is, that, you know, for - for some kind of solution to happen, you need to have the support of the Arab countries and leadership from the Arab countries to help see that happen. And - and so far, you know, we're - we're not seeing President Biden push for that in a way that people can get behind and see him as a leader on this issue.
BREAM: Panel, thank you very much. Good to see all of you. We'll see you next Sunday.
Up next, President Biden is in danger of losing his party's primary here on Tuesday. We're going not explain why the incumbent's in trouble and what his allies are doing to try to save him, up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BREAM: OK, though most of the focus is on the GOP primary here in New Hampshire, there's a compelling story brewing on the other side of the aisle, that the incumbent, President Joe Biden, may not win his party's primary Tuesday night. But here's the back story on why.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm writing in Joe Biden.
BREAM (voice over): That's right, the current president of the United States is not on his party's primary ballot here in New Hampshire. Democrats have been haggling for more than a year over their primary calendar, forcing early states, Iowa and New Hampshire, to fight for their key spots at the top.
New Hampshire state law mandates that it is the first in the nation primary. A position it refused to seed. But the DNC has officially put South Carolina at the front of the line, meaning, New Hampshire Democrats are essentially holding an unsanctioned primary that won't get to award any delegates. Much to the consternation of candidate Marianne Williamson, who is on the ballot.
MARIANNE WILLIAMSON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Shame on you. Shame on you. You don't protect democracy by suppressing democracy.
BREAM (voice over): The president stood with his party and stayed off the ballot. But now his allies are crisscrossing the granite state pushing a write-in campaign, hoping to help Biden avoid the awkward optics of headlines proclaiming him the loser of New Hampshire's primary.
REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): I believe President Biden will win. And it's going to be a hard-fought victory as a write-in candidate. That's a big deal.
BREAM: Though some volunteers told us they aren't thrilled about being put in this position.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think he's making a big mistake and he didn't -- doesn't have the courtesy to put his name on the ballot so we don't have to stand here and say, please put his name on the ballot. It's very disappointing.
BREAM (voice over): There's also a sense of pride among locals fighting to help the president score a win come Tuesday, even though they're disappointed with the DNC's decision to bump New Hampshire.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are trying to show the Democratic National Committee that our election is not meaningless, that we're going to show we still support Biden.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BREAM (on camera): So, President Biden is almost certain to fare better than he did here in the 2020 primary where he finished fifth among the Democratic candidates. He went on, of course, to rebound in South Carolina with the help of Congressman Jim Clyburn. That state is now the first recognized Democrat contest of the cycle.
And Fox News will have complete coverage of the New Hampshire voting on Tuesday.
That is it for us today. We will spread out, keep you informed on what voters here have to say as we had into this final day of getting ready for the first primary sanctioned by Republicans, not by Democrats this time around here in New Hampshire.
I'm Shannon Bream. Have a great week. We'll see you next FOX NEWS SUNDAY.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
Copy: Content and Programming Copyright 2024 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2024 VIQ Media Transcription, Inc. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of VIQ Media Transcription, Inc. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.
Get all the stories you need-to-know from the most powerful name in news delivered first thing every morning to your inbox