This is a rush transcript from "The Five," July 2, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Kimberly Guilfoyle along with Juan Williams, Chris Stirewalt, Dana Perino and Tom Shillue. It's 5 o'clock in New York City, and this is "The Five."
The White House vamping up its communication scene today as the battle for the Supreme Court heats up. We are one week away from President Trump announcing his nominee for the high court to replace retiring Justice Anthony Kennedy. This as the president says he interviewed four candidates today and plans to meet two to three more. Trump is rolling up his sleeves, gearing up for a fierce fight with Democrats who are vowing to block his pick.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: It's probably going to be vicious because the other side, all they can do is obstruct and resist, you know, the whole thing is resist. But -- and maybe someday we'll be able to get along with the other side. I don't know. But right now, it's only resist. That's all they want to do is stop things from happening. So they're going to try very hard. But I think it's going to go actually very quickly if I pick the right person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: And this come amid growing concerns from the left that the new makeover of the court could lead to the reversal of the Roe vs. Wade ruling, legalizing abortion. The president also weighing in on that in his sit-down with Maria Bartiromo.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARIA BARTIROMO, MORNINGS WITH MARIA HOST: Are you going to ask your nominees beforehand how they might vote on Roe v. Wade.
TRUMP: Well, that's a big one, and probably not. They're all saying don't do that. You don't do that. You shouldn't do that. But I'm putting conservative people on. And I'm very proud of Neil Gorsuch. He has been outstanding. His opinions are, you know, so well written, so brilliant. And I'm going to try and do something like that. But I don't think I'm going to be so specific and the question I'll be asking. And I'm actually told that I shouldn't be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: Main Republican, Susan Collins, a swing voter in the Senate, vows to oppose the nominee who would overturn the ruling.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. SUSAN COLLINS, R-MAINE: I believe very much that Roe v. Wade is settled law, as it has been described by Chief Justice Roberts. A candidate for this important decision who would overturn Roe v. Wade would not be acceptable to me, because that would indicate an activist agenda that I don't want to see a judge have.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: OK. So, obviously, Dana, this is a key issue and of concern. You know, both sides talking about this, but the president in his interview with Maria Bartiromo saying that he wouldn't necessarily ask that specific question. It's not something that he personally is looking for in a nominee.
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: The conservatives have said we're not asking for any nominee -- going back many decades, to say specifically how they would rule on any one issue. But conservatives say that they want is somebody who will rule based on how they -- on a strict reading of the constitution.
PERINO: Not, like, interpreting -- well, may be the founders could have thought about something and they didn't understand. And this particular issue of Roe v. Wade is one where even Ruth Bader Ginsburg, I went back and read today her thoughts about that actual decision being one that was probably outside the realm of what the constitution was saying. And that's what riled up conservatives about this issue for a long time is that decision itself was one that they would look back and say that was not decided well. Now, that doesn't mean it isn't precedent, OK, or some people might call it settled law.
PERINO: But -- so it is going to be a major sticking issue. But go back and look at it. I remember when I was a spokesperson -- like Raj Shah the deputy press secretary is going to move over and do full-time communications for this nominee. I was the spokesperson for Justice Roberts. I just knew Roe v. Wade kind of based on the general idea of what I knew growing up, but I'd never gone to law school and I was getting all these questions about the right to privacy. And I remember going to the staff secretary at the time, happens to be Brett Kavanaugh, and saying can you help me understand. I thought this was supposed to be about abortion rights. Everyone is asking me about the right to privacy. And he said it's a great question. Let me walk you through it. And that's how -- that's when I first understood how the decision was actually made.
I do think there's a lot of hysteria around it. However, it doesn't mean that people don't feel extremely passionately. And, of course, it's going to rally up the president's base but it will rally up the liberal's base as well. And I think that the president is right, and he will probably be cautious, and he will say this over and over that I'm not going to ask the nominee how he or she would rule specifically on this issue. But it will be the undercurrent of all of the fights for the next several weeks.
GUILFOYLE: OK. Mr. Stirewalt. Hello.
CHRIS STIREWALT, CO-HOST: She's right.
GUILFOYLE: Oh, smart move.
STIREWALT: I'll start with that, she's right. Thank you guys for having me here today. Happy Independence Day week, yeah.
STIREWALT: For the record. So, Quinnipiac University has a new poll out today that looks said that Americans' attitudes on this issue. And guess what? Overwhelmingly, Americans don't want to see Roe vs. Wade overturned. That's not -- that's a 2 to 1 margin. And even a majority among men. So, the hysteria here is -- it's damaging because nobody is saying that. The way that abortion -- the way that access to elective abortions has been rolled back in the United States hasn't been by an effort, I'm telling you, you're the lawyer. Hasn't been rolled back through big -- we're going to knock it over. It's going to be kaput. Instead, what happen is states have found ways, conservative states, have found ways to put different notations on access to abortion in Texas, in Alabama.
There are 20 states or so in which getting an abortion is almost impossible. It's extremely difficult where states have matched the voters in those places and done it. And none of that has had to do with overturning Roe v. Wade. It's had -- it's been about taking a long trackback. Conservatives started this 30, 40 years ago, a long track back to before Roe when -- how can we make this a federal issue? How can we make this for the states? How can federalism apply here? And that's what's happening. But you've heard and what I've read from Jeffrey Toobin and other people that have said that African-Americans will no longer be welcome in elite universities. That all of this stuff is worse even in stuff I've heard when Robert Bork was the nominee many, many, many moons ago. And it's not good for the discussion, number one.
Number two, they're creating a problem for Democrats. They create this monster. They say this terrible, evil human being is going to rise up out of the belly of the swamp and come and ruin your lives. And then this person is going to walk out and you know what they're going to say? Oh, he seems all right. He seems nice. And that's what happened with Roberts, that's what happened with Gorsuch, these heinous expectations are met with a nice, competent person and people go, OK.
GUILFOYLE: Wow. It's interesting. Yeah, heinous expectations met with a nice, competent person. So, that sounds a lot like -- just the rhetorical hype, the vitriol, Juan, really, we've seen in the past that this type of thing has happen. And then you see in terms of the person who comes forward, like in the case of Neil Gorsuch, somebody who has been, you know, well respected and admired and complimented in terms of how he's comported himself thus far.
JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Well, I could make the same argument, you know, going back to Merrick Garland. He was well respected, highly rated, and never given the opportunity to have even a hearing, much less a vote. But I think the big point here is that we live in different times, Kimberly. I was talking with Abby Huntsman today on Outnumbered, and she said to me, she said she had Justice Scalia's son on Fox & Friends, and that he said to her, you know, his dad was approved 98 to nothing. Now, you think about this, 98 to nothing. He's a qualified, competent jurist with a long record and a clear conservative, and yet not one so-called liberal Democrat voted against Justice Scalia. But in 2018, we live in a situation that's far different in terms of how polarized our country is. And we have a far different president.
So, my colleagues here on this panel say, oh, but you could be a nice guy. And, of course, Neil Gorsuch was a nice guy. And don't worry about it. They make -- they have all these terrible things. My pal, Chris Stirewalt, comes from D.C. and he says, well, what's all this black people won't be in elite institutions. Well, Affirmative Action is a big deal for the Supreme Court, and they set the rules for how schools can consider young people, especially young people coming from underprivileged conditions. But the larger point to my thinking is this that what you're looking at now is approving a fifth conservative justice in polarized political times potentially creating a rubber-stamp in the Supreme Court for a conservative agenda.
And people say, well, but, you know, President Trump says he's not going to ask about abortion. It's not a litmus test for the conservatives. So let me read you a quote that comes from Donald Trump. He says, that all happen automatically in my opinion because I'm putting pro-life justices on the court. It will go back to the states, and the states then can make the determination. So, this is not a secret to liberals and it's not a secret to conservatives. He wants justices who will undo Roe v. Wade.
GUILFOYLE: I don't know if he wants to undo, but that pro-life or in terms of their viewpoint, but he was pretty specific with Maria saying that he wasn't going to ask that question or single it out as one of the requirements. Versus a constitutionalist that is -- yeah, would actually just uphold the constitution and construe and read the case law.
PERINO: He said that during the campaign, right, Juan?
PERINO: What he said is I'm going to put -- I will work to nominate conservative justices. Senator McConnell has worked to confirm conservative justices. Even if the president never even asked them what the litmus test, that's the idea.
WILLIAMS: The federalist society, that's the list.
GUILFOYLE: But it is also one of the factors that he campaigned on. He promised to put justices on the bench like Neil Gorsuch, and that is, you know, widely lauded by the Republicans and conservatives that he put somebody that was in keeping with his campaign promises.
TOM SHILLUE, CO-HOST: Also, yes. That's what you -- so, going back to what he said during the campaign, look back to Gorsuch, look back to the way that was handled. The president -- he has no problem turning up the temperature on issues. But on this issue, I think he approaches things in a fairly normal establishment kind of way. He's appointing people that I think most people -- he's going to appoint people that most people are comfortable with. And he's probably going to get a pass. It's not going to be 98 to nothing, but he'll probably get it done. And I'm not even concerned by the kinds of things that Susan Collins says. The kind of judges that get appointed now are not the kind of judges, like in the Judge Bork days that were advocates for overturning Roe v. Wade. Most of them keep kind of mum on their personal views on these things. And so, I think it's going to be noncontroversial.
GUILFOYLE: All right. We shall see.
PERINO: Add one little thing, the left uses the idea of Roe V. overturned as the right uses the idea of guns being abolished, and it is a way to fire up your base. Neither of those issues are actually on the table, but that is what people will use. So, we can be like calm about like the types of judges that are getting out there and how they might rule, but the spin going to be what it is. But the formidable infrastructure around conservative nominees I think is really in place because of how Robert Bork was treated in the 80's. And conservatives figured it out that they're not going to let this happen to another nominee. The Democrats had to do the same thing for Elena Kagan and Sotomayor during the Obama administration. And the judicial confirmations have been a real bright spot for conservatives with this administration. And so, I think that, you know, the timing is everything in politics, and President Trump seem to have great luck when it comes to.
WILLIAMS: One last point on this which is I hear conservative say, you know, Roe v. Wade is pretty settled. Chief Justice Roberts says it's pretty settled. So, very decisive, which means that you don't overturn things without cause is going to ho. But what did we see from Gorsuch? You say he's highly praised, Kimberly. He came on -- and I think it was a week or two ago, Chris? He just voted to overturn a 40-year law that -- with have regard to how unions were able to collect so-called agency fees or dues from people who may disagree with their political agenda. He overturned it.
STIREWALT: But no one is saying these people aren't conservatives, right? No one is saying that these people aren't conservatives? And these are the kinds of justices that any Republican president would be picking because this has been, as Dana said, a 40-your project. This is the most important thing to many, many, many conservatives is retaking control of the Supreme Court, and they have not hidden that.
GUILFOYLE: And that was one of the main deciding factors for many of the people, including.
PERINO: Quarter of them.
GUILFOYLE: A quarter, yeah, of them that cast a vote on the ballot for now President Trump. Will Democrats urge a call to abolish ICE backfire on them in the midterm elections? All the details next.
PERINO: As the debate over illegal immigration rages on, President Trump is hammering Democrats that are pushing to abolish ICE, suggesting their antics may actually help Republicans in the midterms.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I hope they keep thinking about it because they're going to get beaten so badly. Do you know, ICE, these are the guys that's going and take MS-13, and they take them out. You get rid of ICE you're going to have a country that you're going to be afraid to walk out of your house. I love that issue if they're actually going to do that. Between Maxine Waters, and Nancy Pelosi, and getting rid of ICE, and having open borders, and the biggest thing you have open borders, all it's going to do is lead to massive, massive crime. That's going to be their platform. Open borders which equal crime. I think they'll never win another election, so I'm actually quite happy about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: But not all Democrats are on board. Several lawmakers appeared to distance themselves from the far left calls to get rid of immigration and customs enforcement.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, D-CONN.: Abolishing ICE will accomplish nothing unless we change the Trump policy. The Trump administration is embarked on a train wreck, a moral train wreck.
SEN. TAMMY DUCKWORTH, D-ILL.: If you abolish ICE now, you still have the same president with the same failed policies. I think there's a lot of other things we can do before we get to that point.
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR, D-MINN.: What has to change are the policies, and the people that are making these policies are making horrendous decisions like separating kids from their parents.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
PERINO: All right. So you've heard the Democrats certainly on message now, Chris. They're saying policies are not change -- not ICE. But it's pretty amazing that the Republicans went from being on defense on immigration over the family separation issue and the immigration proposals failing to pass in the house to now the Republicans are on offense because some Democrats have said abolishing ICE is a good idea.
STIREWALT: Right. And what you always want to do in a midterm election is define your -- what you want to do at any election, particularly in a midterm, to find your opponent, get out there and scuffed them up. Democrats have had great support with Republicans over the year where you find the dumbest things said by the dumbest person anywhere in north America, who was a member of the opposing political party and then you say they're all Todd Aikens, they're all Christine O'Donnell's, they're all these things. So now it's the Republicans turn to -- they're going to try to take it back say, see, all of you people, which, of course, is like a tiny fraction of Democrats feel this way. But everybody wants no borders and everybody wants to abolish immigrations and customs enforcement and you just keep saying it until it sounds like it's true, until people believe it even if it's not, and that's why we hate politics.
PERINO: When you say that the Democrats -- you know, one of your ideas is to scuff up your opponent, but instead the Democrats are like, why do you keep hitting yourself?
SHILLUE: It's a strange argument to have. I mean, last week they had the separation of families and now they're attacking ICE. I was talking -- Christopher Hawn was on my radio show today, Democratic strategist, smart guy, but he said, Tom, this is just like when Republicans call for the abolition of the IRS, and I thought I had a very good answer for him.
PERINO: OK, what was it?
SHILLUE: Nobody likes the IRS and everybody likes ICE, that's the difference.
PERINO: There is a big difference. And, Kimberly, is this also an example of the Democrats just being all for obstruction of Trump, but not offering a credible alternative. Like, if you're alternative is abolish ICE and there's nothing in between that you're talking about, then it seems like they've gone too far.
GUILFOYLE: This just doesn't make sense. It sounds cuckoo. That's what he's saying. It's like, look, they're being obstructionist, they're just against everything. They don't have the solutions and ideas. They just want to be against it. It makes absolutely no sense from public safety perspective to abolish ICE. OK, I'm so sorry, and then want? The crossing guards after school will go over and police the border? I mean, I don't understand where they're coming from on this. And I do think it is so polarizing, so off the charts that they're actually alienating people who were there trying -- base, and there's those who are like, OK, they want to leave the party because it's becoming and sounding to fringe, to extreme, even from rhetoric from people like Kristen Gillibrand or Maxine Waters or Nancy Pelosi. And it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. This is not the Democrat Party that I signed up for to begin with or that we know from, you know, years on back. What are they doing? And then you see some of the recent elections and people coming for from the party to say this is not representative of values and ideals that we share. And it's become just, you know, kind of like frightening out there in terms of some of the reactions and the pushback and calling for people to be assaulted and attacks and, you know, driven away.
PERINO: A lifetime of abuse is what was recommended today. Juan, you saw some of the commentary there from yesterday Sunday shows from Democrats saying, whoa, whoa, tap the brakes. We're not really for that. But it makes people that are either establishment or moderate Democrats basically have to sound like the schoolmarm when what you have is an insurgent base, a restless base of progressives, and now even some socialists saying, actually, we are not for playing around. We want serious action. And so, is abolishing ICE where they run on in the next couple of weeks -- couple of months?
WILLIAMS: I think there's a lot of support for reforming ICE. I don't know about abolishing ICE. And I think that there're people though who are so concerned, given the policy of separating children from parents, that they say what is going on? Why do we have what President Trump, during the campaign say would be a deportation force going in and raiding homes, disrupting social events, going into workplaces, grabbing people. People are like, what is going on? I mean, we were talking earlier about going after the IRS or something. I remember when conservatives were calling the ATF jackbooted thugs for doing this kind of thing. And so, you can imagine, Dana, that there're people on the left, and it's not just on the left, but even in the middle who are like, whoa. Remember, I know I'm cuckoo, right? Cuckoo, cuckoo.
GUILFOYLE: I didn't say you were cuckoo. Don't put words in my mouth. I said the things that they are saying sounds cuckoo, like abolish ICE.
WILLIAMS: Here's the thing to keep in mind, Kimberly, Mr. Cuckoo says that ICE was just created about 15, 20 -- right after 9/11.
PERINO: ICE -- well, right, because before it was called something else.
WILLIAMS: We have a different organization. We took care of the crime. We certainly did if that was the issue, but we didn't have this singular group which was created to stop terrorism from being festered or fostered inside the United States. It has a totally different purpose under this president which is why you hear even moderate Democrats saying the problem is the president policies and the way he's using ICE. So, if it's necessary to reform ICE so that it can't be used to break apart families, break children away from parents, then do it.
PERINO: But the thing also it's not even ICE that does the family separation. A family separation is needed at the border, it's the customs and border patrol.
WILLIAMS: Right, it gets mix up because who grabs -- who comes and grabs the kid inside the United States?
PERINO: All right. I get it where the rhetoric is going. Anyway, a socialist primary victory sends political shock waves among our fellow Democrats, the intensifying divide over the left's agenda up next.
WILLIAMS: Welcome back to The Five. The spotlight is on what some are saying is an apparent divide among Democrats, Senator Tammy Duckworth warning her party about moving too far to the left. This comes in the wake of socialist Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's upset win over longtime Democratic congressman, Joe Crowley, in New York last week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DUCKWORTH: I think it's the future of the party in the Bronx where she is. I think that we as legislators need to listen to our constituency and get out there. I think what she did was she did the hard work. She pounded the pavement and she was out there talking to every one of her constituents.
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: Are you concerned at all that your party is going too far to the left to either win in the midterms or win back the White House?
DUCKWORTH: Well, I think that you can't win the White House without the Midwest, and I don't think that you can go too far to the left and still win the Midwest.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: Ocasio-Cortez, a former organizer for Senator Bernie Sanders' presidential campaign, she's firing back pointing out that policies to the left of Hillary Clinton won in several Midwestern states. Kimberly, what do you make of this?
GUILFOYLE: You know, I think it's pretty interesting. She's a compelling, you know, political figure in terms of she's exceeded, you know, the expectations. People were really -- pretty much betting that Crowley who was well-established within the Democratic Party, someone who was supposed to seen as, you know, part of the future of the Democratic Party in terms of leadership, perhaps succeeding Nancy Pelosi was, you know, taken out, like, by a relative newcomer. But I mean, some of the policies similar, yes, to Bernie Sanders. She campaigned alongside him. But you know, given the -- the relative level of the seat, et cetera, it was, like, covered all across the networks, you know, this weekend and all the Sunday shows.
So look, they're looking to it as a momentum, enthusiasm generator for the party. But I think it's fraught with problems in terms of being that far- left is not necessarily, you know, kind of sort of mainstream election guarantees and, you know, wins. People go, "Whoa, this seems a little fringe. This is not workable or tenable. So therefore, I'm feeling even more alienated from the party."
JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: So Chris and Dana, do me a favor and walk through some things. Let's say free education, free health care, guaranteed incomes. I think a lot of people who are populist, they would identify both with Sanders and Trump would say, "Yes, those are things that we want."
CHRIS STIREWALT, CO-HOST: Absolutely. And in fact, when we talk about the shifting political dynamics inside the country, one of the things that's going on is the big move of poor and working-class white voters away from the Democratic Party into the Republican Party.
Well, guess what? They're going to bring the same demands with them when they get there. And for those voters, things like, you know, the Republican stalwart lines about, "We're going to reform Social Security." No. "We're going to -- we're going to roll back Obamacare." Stop.
So the -- as the Republican base is shifting, they're getting new mandates from their -- their folks. Now, none of that is to say that it's workable for Democrats to build a strategy, which -- and no one would -- to build a strategy around a 28-year-old first-time congresswoman from the Bronx. And the Republicans would like to make her the face of the Democratic Party. I see the red socialist fist back there for added effect.
GUILFOYLE: It's so subtle. How did you miss it?
STIREWALT: It was very -- I'm going to wear my Che Guevara T-shirt. But my point being, again, Republicans want to turn her into the face of the Democratic Party. Democrat leaders, I'm sure, are biting their tongues and saying, "How nice for you."
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: They don't want to say anything bad about her. But this really is the Democrats' Tea Party moment. The energy and intensity and passion that these younger people are bringing to their movement and to their party just might be enough for them to take back the House.
And it's certainly going to make primaries in places like where a Joe Crowley is, you know, lazy and doesn't campaign, doesn't even show up to his debate, like yes, they're going to lose.
But is it enough to form a governing majority? And I think you could ask John Boehner or Paul Ryan if that's true.
WILLIAMS: That's a good question.
STIREWALT: Boehner's moan is all --
WILLIAMS: So now for our own Che Guevara.
TOM SHILLUE, CO-HOST: Yes. Juan --
GUILFOYLE: Che Shillue.
WILLIAMS: Che Shillue.
SHILLUE: Well, the theme of -- of all of our stories today is that Democrats are pushing their luck, Juan.
SHILLUE: And yes, why do --
SHILLUE: -- they keep picking far-left people as their stars? Elizabeth Warren, whoever you pick, Bernie Sanders. I mean, they love these far-left politicians.
But I mean, come on. Look at her. She's -- I'd vote for her. I mean, look, she knocked on doors. Tammy Duckworth was right. This isn't a big - - it's not even that big of an upset when you look at --
STIREWALT: Oh, it's not an upset?
SHILLUE: No. She knocked on doors. She did the work.
PERINO: Did you see her tennis shoes?
SHILLUE: Yes, she was fantastic.
PERINO: She posted a picture, because they were making -- they were saying she didn't really work that hard. And she posted the picture of the tennis shoes that she wore walking her district and how they were completely worn on the bottom.
PERINO: And she did a lot of miles in them. She worked for it. And the Tea Party Republicans worked for it, too.
WILLIAMS: Well, Tom, were you finished?
SHILLUE: No, I mean --
PERINO: Yes, I cut him off.
SHILLUE: Crowley, he was lazy. It was -- this seat was ripe for the picking, and Crowley was lazy, and he deserved to lose. But no, she's not going to be a star in the Democratic Party. She is going too far to the left. Thank you for letting me finish.
GUILFOYLE: People said Hillary Clinton didn't work hard enough, too, in terms of skipping some of the states that she --
STIREWALT: I will just say one word, because no one else ever will again - -
STIREWALT: -- in favor of Joe Crowley. He -- that was a rigged district. He was handed that.
GUILFOYLE: Trigger word.
STIREWALT: He inherited -- he inherited that district from his political mentor, got in without having to run for it the first time. Thereafter, used the power of incumbency. That is more of a reflection of how crooked New York politics are than anything else.
WILLIAMS: Hey, slow down. Slow down.
GUILFOYLE: This turned into a bigger gain for President Trump.
WILLIAMS: Maxine Waters firing back at her critics, including her own party's leadership. You're going to see some fireworks when we return.
STIREWALT: Maxine Waters is not backing down. In an interview, the defiant California Democrat pushed back against criticism from her party's leaders after encouraging people to confront members of the Trump administration over its immigration policy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MAXINE WATERS (D), CALIFORNIA: Leadership like Chuck Schumer's will do anything that they think is necessary to protect their leadership. And I was blessed with the kind of strength that does not allow me to be intimidated by the likes of Donald Trump. I think he does not deserve to be the president of the United States.
Let him say whatever he wants to say. He will not stop me. They want me to run away. They want me to stop talking. They want me to be quiet. But he can't do that to me. I won't stand for it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STIREWALT: Meanwhile, at a Los Angeles rally this weekend, Waters addressed a series of recent death threats.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WATERS: I know that there are those who are talking about censoring me, talking about kicking me out of Congress, talking about shooting me. All I have to say is this. If you shoot me, you'd better shoot straight. There's nothing like a wounded animal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STIREWALT: OK. Who knew? All right. So the issue, and I want to start with you, Tom, the issue here is --
GUILFOYLE: You're not supposed to use the word "animal."
STIREWALT: Yes, well, that's definitely not good. And --
SHILLUE: Well, I was -- we were both chuckling at that, but I want -- it's -- no one is threatening to shoot her, are they? Or am I wrong about that?
STIREWALT: Have you been on the Internet lately? It's a pretty gross place.
GUILFOYLE: It's a gross place.
SHILLUE: OK, well, there's some people. I see. Well, she mentioned with the censuring -- she's saying some people are saying censuring me, shooting me. I thought, like --
STIREWALT: I've been in Dana's mention sometimes, and I can tell you, the Internet is a gross and terrible -- it's wonderful, but it's also a gross and terrible place, too.
PERINO: A mean place.
STIREWALT: But Tom, the real problem here is that, of course, the Republicans want her to keep talking. They would love for her to keep talking. It's the Democratic leadership that is trying to get her to not talk. Right?
SHILLUE: Yes, yes. And -- but they're not going to stop her. And she's very -- she's interesting to listen to. You know? I'd have her on my show. I mean --
STIREWALT: The booking is available.
WILLIAMS: You're a fan?
SHILLUE: Well, I mean, it's just -- she has a -- she is -- you've got to admit she is interesting. There are interesting people in politics. Donald Trump is one. She is another. Right?
STIREWALT: This is true.
SHILLUE: She is interesting.
PERINO: Well, the other thing, though, that -- I mean, it is just getting to be too much.
Today we just found out that Rand Paul had a --
PERINO: -- threat against his family, and the Capitol Hill police arrested someone, who said he wanted to -- this guy that they arrested said he wanted to chop up his family and kill them with an ax.
And so is it rhetoric? I'm not for -- I'm not for that kind of rhetoric. You can have free speech, and I don't think anyone is suggesting to Maxine Waters that she not be able to articulate what are the policies that she thinks would be better? Like, what is persuasive?
But encouraging people to go out and harass others who are serving their country or who have been elected in a free and fair election, it has gotten to be too much.
SHILLUE: She's done it, though. She -- I think I remember her last week, calling for people to harass White House employees.
STIREWALT: Exactly. This is the very thing.
All right. So Juan, Maxine Waters, a fixture, a fixture from time immemorial. She's probably been in Congress for 40 years.
STIREWALT: Leader -- if you're Nancy Pelosi, you're looking at this. You've got a problem. You have a person who is drawing too much heat on the subject and is playing into Republican hands.
How do you manage the situation as a leader, because as Tom points out, nobody is going to tell Maxine Waters to stop talking. Right?
WILLIAMS: Well, they're trying to. And by the way, just before I go into that, let me just say Jeb Hensarling, congressman, Republican from Texas --
WILLIAMS: -- I thought he was very brave. He stood up and said, "You know, I don't agree with anything Maxine Waters has, but it's outrageous that people are threatening her life."
STIREWALT: Oh, yes.
WILLIAMS: And so I just thought Jeb Hensarling, hats off to you.
GUILFOYLE: But she is the one also calling for people to be attacked and harassed.
WILLIAMS: No, no, no, she never called for violence. She said she had no problem with absolutely shunning people, asking them to leave or shouting at them when they're in the grocery store.
GUILFOYLE: Yes, how is that something -- conduct becoming?
WILLIAMS: I agree with you on that.
GUILFOYLE: That's certainly not, you know --
WILLIAMS: I agree with you, Kimberly.
GUILFOYLE: -- embracing the civility that we've all been talking about. So she should not get a pass for that.
WILLIAMS: I agree.
GUILFOYLE: It's like a continuum. I'm going to take it all the way here, three quarters but not all the way. When you even encourage actions like that and rhetoric and that kind of vitriol, you know, violence and physical assaultive conduct can ensue.
WILLIAMS: But that's not -- but that's different than saying that she's calling for violence.
GUILFOYLE: I think it's bad, too.
STIREWALT: But we wouldn't say -- but we wouldn't say that the president is responsible for violence, because he has used course terms. We wouldn't say -- we would say that you, that that kind of -- she is to blame for violence, right?
GUILFOYLE: I didn't say that. I said that she is not to be commended for her rhetoric. I think it is divisive, and I think it's uncalled for and it's totally lacking in civility. Because that's the whole thing.
STIREWALT: Not laudatory.
GUILFOYLE: We're supposed to be, you know, not favoring sides. Just reciprocal civility.
STIREWALT: Thumbs -- thumbs down.
If you are watching us right now, you're probably escaping the scorching, disgusting heat wave. How we here at "The Five" are managing the sweltering temperatures, next.
SHILLUE: Another blistering day is baking the Big Apple and beyond. Millions of Americans from the plain states to the East Coast are roasting, and a heat wave with temperatures that feel like the triple digits.
It's so hot that the Chicago Fire Department had to hose down the Michigan Avenue Bridge after extreme heat expanded the steel. Some in Arizona are baking cookies on car dashboards. Yum. And people from Oklahoma to Buffalo are hitting the water parks, sprinklers and backyard pools to stay cool.
So how are we managing to beat the heat? I'll go first.
SHILLUE: I was out at the -- it was the local pool in Riverdale Bronx.
WILLIAMS: Is that you?
SHILLUE: I sent out this picture. This is how I -- it's a bamboo shirt. And I wrap it around my head, and I keep my mom sunglasses on. I sent out the picture and everyone was making fun of me. But --
GUILFOYLE: You think?
SHILLUE: It's a -- there's a serious issue. You have to protect yourself from the sun's harmful rays. And I'm very fair skinned. I don't know if you've noticed.
GUILFOYLE: Why don't you use one of the umbrellas?
SHILLUE: I mean, I do. I sit in the shade. But you have to go --
PERINO: He wears that under the umbrella.
GUILFOYLE: And then sunscreen.
SHILLUE: Because it reflects up. The cement, it reflects up. You'll get a sunburn from below, because the sun will reflect off the cement.
STIREWALT: There's being Irish, and then there's being Irish. I'm very impressed. I'm very impressed.
GUILFOYLE: Like --
WILLIAMS: I'm worried for you, though. I really am. Because one, you look like Tom of Arabia in that picture. Right?
SHILLUE: A "Star Wars" reboot.
SHILLUE: It looks like the sand people.
GUILFOYLE: Waiting for, like, Jar Jar Binks to jump out.
WILLIAMS: And then it could be that ICE would jump out, and they'd think, "Looks like an immigrant to me."
PERINO: Oh, Juan!
SHILLUE: Dana, you must -- you have to protect yourself from the sun and the heat.
PERINO: I would tell my younger self, if I could, to where more sunscreen.
But one thing that's strange for me is -- so when it's 95 degrees, where I grew up, it's hot but it's not oppressive. And I've never gotten used to being in humidity.
And so when it's 90 degrees here with 90 percent humidity, I -- I drag a little bit. I always try to make sure I don't eat that much. Right?
STIREWALT: There's a shock.
PERINO: Not eat a lot when you're outside. That will slow you down. And also, inside a lot. I've got to pretend like it's a rainy day and be inside.
STIREWALT: Maybe we should go out -- maybe we should do the show outside sometime, Dana.
GUILFOYLE: How about tomorrow?
SHILLUE: Chris, how about you? How do you beat the heat?
STIREWALT: I don't. And you know, the thing for me, one of the things, as a fat American, I'm already hot all of the time. When it's 75 and you guys it's are like, "Oh, this is a nice day," I'm like, "Oh, I could use a -- dial it down in here a little bit." So by the time we get to this point, it's just like, "Whatever." Like, just pack extra handkerchiefs.
SHILLUE: Yes. Kimberly, I mean, men get hotter, don't they?
SHILLUE: Yes, men are always more -- they want cooler?
STIREWALT: Am I wrong about that?
PERINO: Well, men are not hotter.
SHILLUE: Women are always like, "Turn down the AC." They're always shivering.
GUILFOYLE: Yes, yes, yes. They don't say that to a Puerto Rican woman.
So here's the thing. I think that, like Dana says, say to a younger self, so I always say, because I've been working for, like, 100 years, like -- and that has helped, like, for skin and for skin protection, whatever. So I think that's a big deal. But also, there is the idea of, like, staying indoors. Right?
PERINO: When it's hot out.
SHILLUE: But don't you want to get out? Juan, you want to get out in the great outdoors.
GUILFOYLE: I like the heat, to be quite honest. I really enjoy it. I -- it feels good.
SHILLUE: We're 98.6 degrees. Juan, can you tell me why isn't it comfortable? Maybe I should know this.
GUILFOYLE: And you're supposed to drink water.
SHILLUE: It's -- our bodies are 98.6 degrees. Why does it feel so terrible when it's 98 degrees outside?
STIREWALT: You want to do physics.
WILLIAMS: Adding. Go ahead. You got it.
Do you want to explain it?
GUILFOYLE: OK, Cliff Clavin, go ahead.
PERINO: Compound fraction.
WILLIAMS: But I will say that I am such a big fan of lemonade, and I think lemonade is good stuff.
PERINO: You can't eat sugar in the heat.
WILLIAMS: I like it. First of all, I like heat. I have no problem with heat.
And the second thing is, in the big city, for city kids, you just open the hydrant.
SHILLUE: Oh, that's great.
WILLIAMS: You turn on the hose.
GUILFOYLE: Yes, go to Central Park.
WILLIAMS: Yes, this is what you do. So I mean, in a way, it becomes like a festival. It's an opportunity to get out and play.
SHILLUE: It is nice when you see people out, and that's why I like going out.
GUILFOYLE: You do need the sunscreen.
SHILLUE: Pools -- yes, wear your sunscreen.
PERINO: And read a book.
GUILFOYLE: In the heat?
SHILLUE: In the shade --
GUILFOYLE: That's Dana's answer for everything.
SHILLUE: -- bamboo shirt, the whole deal.
"One More Thing" is up next.
GUILFOYLE: It's time now for "One More Thing." Dana, what do you have for us?
PERINO: I have something, and you have something. We shall put them on.
GUILFOYLE: Do it.
PERINO: OK. These are our new hats. These are our Fourth of July hats. Just in time for the Fourth of July. It's a special handmade hat to commemorate and celebrate American independence.
These were made by Irene Valentine. She's the wife of a wounded warrior and an active member of the U.S. Veterans Motorcycle Club. And I met her, and she was wearing one of these hats. I said, "Where's you get the hat?" She's a huge "Five" fan. Irene valentine, and it's a club that she started in 2007. USVeteransMC.net. USVeteransMC.net. If you want to learn more about their club and also to find more about the hat.
GUILFOYLE: Well, these are quite gorgeous and made really well.
PERINO: You know what I need? And she said she should have had a patent, because if you walk around New York, you can see someone trying to sell some that are not as good as this, and Kimberly even has her name on hers.
GUILFOYLE: That's what you have on yours.
PERINO: I've got your with your name on it.
GUILFOYLE: Very sweet. Look at how cute we are.
PERINO: They're pretty cute. I'm wearing it.
GUILFOYLE: I love it. And I'm going to enjoy something in my new hat. Yes! "Kimberly's Food Court." All right.
OK. So Dunkin' Donuts, who I'm a big fan of, has a new invention. I've got to tell you something. It's amazing. I tasted one before, before the little "Food Court." They have these new doughnut fries, and at first you're like, "Whoa, that sounds kind of weird and freaky," until you put it in your mouth. Then you're like, "Wow, this is amazing." So they did, like, a limited trial.
It was quite successful, but now they're saying that they're only going to do it for a little period of time. I predict that this will become a staple for America, these doughnut fries.
PERINO: This is like a churro.
SHILLUE: Oh, yes. Churro.
GUILFOYLE: Guys, I'm not kidding around.
PERINO: That was the name of my textbook when I was taking Spanish.
GUILFOYLE: This may be the top five in "Kimberly's Food Court" of delicious.
PERINO: Chris, you're not going to have one?
STIREWALT: I'm having one. They're great. If I won't eat an apple, you think I'm just going to eat that?
It's so good. So it hit nationwide -- started Tuesday. My mouth's open, but it is "Food Court."
PERINO: You're not guilty in the "Food Court."
WILLIAMS: All right. So I'm going to show you a 40-year-old picture. Take a look. Yes, that's me 40 years ago cutting my wedding cake.
WILLIAMS: So Sunday was my 40th wedding anniversary.
PERINO: Happy anniversary!
WILLIAMS: Thanks, guys. Here's a picture of the happy couple, my wife Delisa and I, outside the church with our parents. And here we are at the reception.
And now, take a look at this. Forty years later, here we are with our youngest son at his wedding just two weeks ago. I know what you're thinking, that my wife is a lucky girl. How true. But I also want to say thank you to her for 40 wonderful years, kids and grandkids.
PERINO: It's a great -- great --
GUILFOYLE: We thank her, too, Juan. You're happy and in a good mood.
WILLIAMS: Thank you.
STIREWALT: Happy anniversary.
GUILFOYLE: We have almost, like, an eight-year anniversary.
WILLIAMS: There we go.
GUILFOYLE: Mr. Shillue.
SHILLUE: Bear in a hot tub. Look at this, a bear in a hot tub. This is, like, the reverse of Goldilocks. Remember when she gone into their bed? Now they're getting -- they're getting into her hot tub, because it's just the right -- the right temperature.
GUILFOYLE: That might be my soulmate.
PERINO: He might be.
STIREWALT: We all mourn with the staff at The Capital Gazette in Annapolis, Maryland, at the shooting that took place there. And I would just recommend -- I would say this, and maybe I'm only saying this because I started as a small-town newspaper guy, but I'm an enormous believer in local, local news. The most local news is probably, no offense, the most important.
So my encouragement to you -- I say this is a veteran of The Wheeling Intelligencer, The Charleston Daily Mail, da, da-da, da-da, subscribe to your local -- the most local news source that you can. Support it. Support those reporters. That's a great way to honor the sacrifices of the people at The Capital Gazette, but it's also good for the country. So maybe give it a shot. That's all I'm saying. All I'm saying.
GUILFOYLE: Well, that sounds very good. You guys, it's been a pleasure. Set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of "The Five." "Special Report" up next.
Hello, Jon Scott.
JON SCOTT, FOX NEWS: Hello, Kimberly. Thank you.
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