This is a rush transcript from "The Ingraham Angle," May 7, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
INGRAHAM: Good evening from Washington. I'm Laura Ingraham. This is "The Ingraham Angle." The FBI and Bob Mueller are caught playing fast and loose with the truth. Andy McCarthy is here to expose the details behind their outrageous double dealings. And also, why are the media so obsessed with John McCain's funeral plans? Wow. We will reveal it. Plus, the Kanye effect is growing. A pastor is now calling on African- Americans to consider how illegal immigration is damaging their community. He will join us.
And breaking just moments ago, a powerful New York Democrat forced to resign after shocking allegations of assault. We will bring you all the details. But first, three women, one double standard. If that's the focus of tonight's ANGLE. Today, the first lady announced her formal agenda for the remainder of her husband's time in office. Her "Be Best Initiative" will focus on the well-being of children both online and off. Tackling teen opioid addiction, suicide, depression and cyberbullying.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MELANIA TRUMP, U.S. FIRST LADY: Social media can be both positively and negatively effect on our children, but too often it's used in negative ways. When children learn positive online behaviors early on, social media can be used in productive ways and can affect positive change.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: Fantastic, but of course, CNN couldn't let the first lady have her moment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her husband has been known to be a name caller on Twitter and talk aggressively on Twitter. She addressed this today in her speech with the president sitting right there in the front row. I think what she's saying there is she's going to do this in spite of her husband, maybe even because of his behavior, but let's focus on the next generation and these kids getting bullied, these kids getting really serious social issues in social media. Going forward, no matter what he does.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: She was doing the whole thing as an attack on her husband. That's ridiculous. Let me get this straight, where Michelle Obama was celebrated by the press and the celebrity step front let's her let's move initiative, Melania Trump's effort is treated skeptically before it even began. Yesterday "The Washington Post" used the occasion to speculate on the Trumps private relationships, including their sleeping arrangements, or whether they spend much time together at all. The obscene rumormongering continued at today's White House briefing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are persistent rumors that Mrs. Trump does not live in this White House and that she lives with her parents somewhere in the suburbs. What do you make of those rumors?
SARAH HUCKABEE SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I make of the fact that just when you think "The Washington Post" can't get things anymore wrong, they do and that that is an outrageous and ridiculous claim.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: I remember Michelle Obama being lauded for having different priorities from her husband and for being a strong independent woman. But now that the Trumps occupy the White House, the press takes every opportunity to define the first lady only through what they view as her husband's shortcomings.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She wakes up in her own bedroom. Not something we normally see. She doesn't eat with the president, and she really lives a life similar to a lot of moms out there.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: President Trump and First Lady Melania Trump are living essentially separate lives within the White House. The subject of a major "Washington Post" report today. The White House dismissed it as tabloid gossip.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trump goes for the kiss and saved by the hat. That is more than a hat, that is a defensive perimeter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: I wish we had a funny late-night comedian. Except for a brief moment during the Monica Lewinsky affair, I don't recall this kind of granular relationship coverage when Bill and Hillary Clinton of course were in in the White House. Now, if you want to know why the media has trained its sights on the first lady, it's simple. She's a real asset to the president and her popularity is soaring. A new CNN poll released today shows that her favorability has gone from 47 percent in January to 57 percent today. She has even jumped 15 percentage points with Democrats. Imagine if we had a fair press. Melania Trump is also a presidential spouse. Let's face it, who brushes off the celebrity culture and avoids politics.
Where Michelle wanted to retool everything from nutrition guidelines to school lunches and Hillary wanted to remake all of health care, Melania just wants to help kids well-being and also to raise our son. That brings me to the media coverage of Gina Haspel, President Trump's nominee to head the CIA. It's confirmed she will be the first woman to ever lead that male-dominated agency. Haspel is a patriot. She served the agency for 33 years, most of it undercover. So, why won't the left cheer her for breaking the glass ceiling? Do you know why? Because killing off her nomination would hurt Trump and because she carried out her duties as instructed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The White House is standing by their CIA pick, Gina Haspel, despite reports she tried to back out last week and despite her history with waterboarding.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why support her given the refusal to declassify critical information about a tape that she reportedly wiped?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her support for U.S. torture programs after 9/11, the fact that she headed up a secret U.S. detention camp in Thailand, that somebody was waterboarded there under her watch.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: The truth is Haspel oversaw detention facility in Thailand in 2002 where a few al Qaeda operatives were waterboarding. They make it sound like she invented the interrogation technique. She did not. It was authorized by George W. Bush and approved by his legal team who briefed Congress on it. There was further static about Haspel being involved as you heard with the destruction of nearly hundreds of tapes of interrogation. A newly declassified review showed that she did not order the tapes to destruction, her superior did, and with good reason. The anti-Trump bullies almost drove Haspel to withdraw her nomination, but she is holding firm. Good for her. Those vilifying her are despicable. I am very disappointed in Rand Paul for opposing her nomination as well. But the media have found one woman with a Trump connection to actually salute. It's a woman they literally roll out the red carpet for, porn star, Stormy Daniels.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on, stop making such a big deal about this. Everyone knows it's just an act.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I work in adult film. We are not really known for our acting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just tell me, what do you need for this to all go away?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A resignation.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: But her star is rising as a result of all of this. (Inaudible) defending himself saying this is all part of a maximum PR campaign, maximum PR, maximum pressure campaign to get whatever Stormy Daniels wants.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: So, you see, Stormie has been elevated by the cultural, political and now the prosecutorial establishment. It's amazing to watch the media disparage and attack women of real substance while they laud a woman who spends most of her time hanging off a pole half or completely naked. She has already signed a detailed letter stating that she had no affair with Donald Trump, but now she has changed her story to sell tickets to her strip act. Her greatest accomplishment may be stripping the Mueller investigation of all credibility. So, let the media plod there darling of the moment. She is actually a good representative of what they have become. But for America, we are going to stick with substance and truly independent women and that's "The Angle."
Joining me now for reaction in New York is Tammy Bruce, the president of Independent Women's Voice and a Fox News contributor. Also, in New York is Cathy Areu, a liberal analyst and publisher of "Catalina" magazine, and with the onset is Anita McBride, chief of staff to First Lady Laura Bush. Great to have all of you strong, independent and smart women of substance on the show with me tonight.
I want to start with you, Anita. I was so angered by what, first of all, they've done to Melania from the very beginning, ridiculing her accent, talking about how she is in prison, that's the me, free Melania. She pulls out this new initiative and its dismissed and denigrated before it even begins, double standard?
ANITA MCBRIDE, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO LAURA BUSH: Absolutely. I think it's great, number one, that you are covering this tonight because she is a woman of substance and I have to say there's no question in my mind why the polls are in her favor because people are beginning to see a lot more of her. She has beautifully represented us overseas as a graceful and gracious first lady. Her first state dinner was flawless. And also, we know we've seen her with children, she is authentic with children, she cares about them. You can see it, it's the perfect initiative for her to talk about how we should all, everybody that touches the life of a child as a responsibility to help them lead a better life. That's what she talked about today.
INGRAHAM: Cathy Areu, I want to go to you here because I've been hearing so much from women -- more left and center women that it's time for women, if the women's moment. It's the #metoo moment, of course, we will get to Schneiderman later. We got the #metoo movement. We got women breaking glass ceilings everywhere, it's a good thing Here we have a first lady who has not really delved into politics. This is all new to her. She takes a while to get her footing. She announces this initiative today and what she is introduced with by The Washington Post is a story filled with anonymous sources claiming to know when the president and the first lady eat together, not eat together. And in the White House briefing room saying she doesn't even live in the White House. Don't you think we would know if the first lady didn't live at the White House? Your reaction to this?
CATHY AREU, PUBLISHER OF CATALINA MAGAZINE: Well, I wrote for "The Washington Post" for over a decade and we had great sources. Many of my sources were not a myth and they were solid sources. I stand by "The Washington Post" and their reporting. The problem is the irony of this, she's going after cyber bullies, that's her initiative and her husband is known as a cyber bully. So, I think that's the problem with her initiative. It just so happens that the day she doesn't he's tweeting angry tweets. It's unfortunate because she is trying to do the right thing with this initiative.
INGRAHAM: It's unfortunate that. You had to say it's unfortunate. Michelle did the Let's Move Initiative. She got Congress -- frankly, really put the pressure on Congress to push this $5 billion initiative for school lunches. The thing was a total disaster. Kids hated the lunches. They threw them away, they made videos about them. You can get in on this, Tammy, did you ever hear a member of the media criticize Michelle for a school lunch initiative that fell flat, well-intentioned, I'm sure it was. We have to get rid of all obesity, all of that is good. On the substance there wasn't even criticism of Michelle. It's all push- ups on Ellen, going on Fallon, on the cover of magazines, she's most beautiful. That's fine. But come on, the double standard here is pathetic. I'm enraged by this. I think it's so unfair.
TAMMY BRUCE, PRESIDENT, INDEPENDENT WOMEN'S VOICE: The legacy media was quiet. Talk radio talked about it. The town hall of America talked about it because it was those families, those homes where kids were coming home and were not getting nutrition. It became a real negative problem And then even when we recognized that there was a refusal to adjust it. And she was involved in policy, a powerful advocate and usually if you implement something that doesn't work you might want to change it, but there was none of that. Here what we've got, even just recently, Mrs. Obama complained again about women who voted for Donald Trump.
INGRAHAM: Let's listen to that. We actually have this, Tammy. I want to play it for all three of you. Let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHELLE OBAMA, FORMER FIRST LADY: In light of this last election, I'm concerned about us as women and how we think about ourselves and about each other. What is going on in our heads where we let that happen? So, I do wonder what our young girls dreaming about if we are still there?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: Anita McBride, this is one more example of liberal women denigrating the choices of conservative women. If we decide Donald Trump is the right person for the country at the time, a lot of different Republican choices, then we are stupid, we are acting against a self- interest, we are dumb, and I guess we are sexist. Michelle Obama's comment, no one will say it, but I will say it, is offensive. It's offensive to women who don't agree with her liberal leftist worldview.
MCBRIDE: It's offensive to women to women who share would like to see a woman president, the right woman president. We will have that sometime. This is not the right time, this is not the right person. Didn't care about the issues that Americans, a lot of women like you and I care about. Security and prosperity, that was first and foremost.
BRUCE: If I may chime in here, as a feminist, who worked in his line fault of my adult life, it was supposed to be about, and we have achieved this, women speaking for themselves, making choices that were best for themselves and their families and now that is being denigrated.They should be celebrated, that women are making a choice based on what is good for them, not based on what the establishment or a celebrity or political celebrity is telling them to do and this is what's damaging and I think what, thank goodness, American women are rejecting. The notion that we are in fact responsible for ourselves -- when Mrs. Obama wonders what are we thinking? We are thinking about the future. We are thinking if we can afford to pay the rent, if we can clothe our children. If we can get them into schools that will serve them best. These are the decisions we made and with Donald Trump we clearly made the right decision. So, this is now with the modern feminist movement is about and it's got to be embraced and unfortunately it is -- fortunately it is with the terms in office.
INGRAHAM: All right. It's a big country we can all agree, disagree, it's fine, pro-choice except in politics. Speaking of double standards, I want you all to react here. As I said, the New York state's attorney general, Democrat, Eric Schneiderman has resigned tonight. It comes hours after an explosive report from the "New Yorker" magazine were four women accused him of horrific acts of physical abuse. Despite his resignation, he is denying the accusations, but he has been a champion, let's not forget, of the #metoo movement. Earlier this year, he even denounced Harvey Weinstein saying, "we have never seen anything as despicable as what we have seen here." Cathy Areu, I believe he's the guy to also go after the Trump Foundation if my memory serves correct. This can't be a fun night for any Democrat. Kirsten Gillibrand saluting him as a leader for women's issues. I just sent out a tweet, follow me on Twitter you will see the comment from her. Your reaction?
AREU: I think it's awful if this is true it's truly awful. A rising star in the Democratic Party. This is awful. If this is in fact true. No woman can stand behind us, no feminist can stand behind this. I can't stand behind this. It's sad, it's a horrible day for the #metoo movement. It's a horrible day for women, men, everyone. Politicians, the Democratic Party, everyone involved. This is awful news and I don't think anyone likes to hear that this happened.
INGRAHAM: I am actually going to say, if allegations are true, I think we should all say that, he's not convicted in a court of law and I wish people would preface everything they say about Donald Trump in the same way, if these allegations are true. Everyone just assumes it's all true because Stormy Daniels had a guest spot on "Saturday Night Live." Here's a couple of tweets. I will let the other women on the panel respond. No one is above the law. I will continue to remind President Trump and his administration of that fact every day. October 11th, 2017. Another tweet. Without the reporting of The New York Times and the New Yorker and the brave women and men who spoke up about the sexual harassment that they endured at the hands of powerful men, there would not be the critical national reckoning underway. Tammy Bruce, national reckoning.
BRUCE: This is typical. All of these men, these liberal men clothe themselves in the cloak of feminism. Weinstein did the same thing. Bill Clinton was doing the same thing. It was all about what we are your protectors, we are your advocates and that had kept them safe. This is about power, it's about complete control and with the report, if true, it's not about sexual harassment but physical violence. Perhaps even some crimes in a dynamic now here in New York is going to be very complicated. This is not unusual. If it fits within the same kind of template that we saw with Weinstein and everyone else in this framework and I think liberals have to think about what is it about men on that side -- I'm still a registered Democrat in California. What is it, is it that they've given them a pass for so long because they've had power and they said we will effectively we will do this, but we will protect you otherwise and that otherwise the entire narrative of the liberal agenda will collapse if you don't protect us. This is falling apart and it's not going to end.
INGRAHAM: It's not just Democrats. This cuts across party lines.
BRUCE: Not as much.
INGRAHAM: Not of the high-profile people, you are right. We have all seen the more left-leaning media over the years kind of look the other way. I heard about that Weinstein thing 20 years ago and I think a lot of people know about that. Anita, again, Schneiderman, one of the most anti-from people out there, hitting him at every turn, even about consensual relationships alleged. Your reaction to close out?
MCBRIDE: I think he's right about one thing, no one is above the law. The law will play out.
INGRAHAM: Great panel. Independent, smart, strong women. I love it. Thank you all. Bob Mueller is suddenly on the defense after the special counsel's very bad week in court. In just a minute, Andy McCarthy breaks down the empty explosive details and what to expect next, coming up.
INGRAHAM: We now know that the FBI didn't believe that Michael Llynn lied to agents during his interview about his conversations with Russia's ambassador to the United States. But the special counsel prosecuted terms former national security advisor for making false statements to the FBI anyway. That duplicity was revealed Friday when key reductions were removed from the House Intel report on the Russia investigation. To tell us why all this matters and what it means, from New York, former federal prosecutor, Andy McCarthy. Andy, this is so wild, why these reductions are being done, the justification for continuing to remove critical exculpatory information from these documents. Tell the Fox viewers what they need to understand about this tonight.
ANDREW MCCARTHY, FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT, NEW
YORK: Well, it was really outrageous the way this was done. It was on Friday night that they dumped out the un-redactions of what they had previously redacted. What we learned when you compare the two documents, once we got the new passages shown is that what they had tried to conceal was the information that was exculpatory in nature about Flynn and the information that actually went to their decision-making process, including how they investigated Flynn. The fact that they couldn't get their story straight about what the basis of considering him to be a criminal suspect were. It just really, very depressing for somebody who is proud of having come from the Justice Department and working there for such a long time. Some of the stuff they held back was actually public information that was out already. They didn't want to put it in in the context that it came up in the report because it calls into question the prosecution of Flynn.
INGRAHAM: So, from the beginning, one could then surmise that the screws were turned on Flynn after he had those conversations with the Russian ambassador. I think he thought he was allowed to have conversations as incoming national security advisor. Sally Yates rushes over to his office, brings a couple agents including Peter Strzok and he says I will answer questions. He didn't even have a lawyer present. He just sat down and answer questions.
MCCARTHY: Yes, and here's why this is so bad, Laura. If you want to have-- they say they are pursuing a counterintelligence investigation. If you've got a guy like Flynn, who has a big intelligence background. He's a combat veteran of the United States. Actually, wrote a book in 2016 that labeled Russia as an enemy of the United States. So, if you really want to advance your intelligence knowledge and you have a recording of Flynn's conversations with the Russian ambassador, what you would do is play the recordings for Flynn and ask him what did this mean, what did that mean, so you can enhance your understanding, right? What they did instead was asking questions about a conversation they had a recording of.
INGRAHAM: They already knew of it.
MCCARTHY: What reason is there for that other than trying to get him to trip up?
INGRAHAM: We will get to the comments about how the Mueller investigators have been operating in a moment. I want to play a flashback from when Jim Comey sat down with Bret Baier and he was asked a specific question about Michael Flynn, let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Did you tell lawmakers that FBI agents didn't believe former National Security Advisor Michael Flynn was lying intentionally to investigators?
JAMES COMEY, FORMER FBI DIRECTOR: No. I saw that in the media. I didn't believe that and didn't say that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: What about that, Andy?
MCCARTHY: Well, I guess, to split hairs if you are inclined to do that, what he said -- and they quote him in the report, is that the agents didn't detect any physical signs of somebody was trying to deceive them. How many-- to try to split those hairs.
INGRAHAM: Devin Nunes is just hot and bothered about the fact that he can't get documents, or they are redacted or seemingly good reason. And so, he basically threatened Jeff Sessions, the attorney general of contempt if this stuff doesn't are coming over to the Hill Sessions today came out and said I'm willing to sit down with him, got his attention. The White House apparently through Marc Short said it we stand, we are supportive of our cabinet members. Joaquin Castro, the congressman from Texas was on CNN this afternoon, let's watch what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPRESENTATIVE JOAQUIN CASTRO (D), TEXAS: This probably wouldn't be happening and less the White House somehow gave its blessing to go around and somehow punish Jeff Sessions through the Congress.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Your experience with Devin Nunes, does he do anything average that goes against what the White House wants?
CASTRO: Not at this point. For a while now, he has basically been nobody who is doing the White House's bidding.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: I wanted to scream out, objection, leading. From Blitzer, that's an anchor asking a question -- don't you think Trump is a jerk? Your reaction -- always bashing Devin Nunes. He's the bogeyman, he's the bad guy. Meanwhile, they don't go to the substance of the problem here.
MCCARTHY: It's remarkable. Devin Nunes I think is actually doing the work of the people in terms of somebody having a check on what's going on in the investigation and it's appropriate that that be investigated. It's just remarkable to me right as we are looking at this report that has these reductions that are so ridiculous that even the Justice Department can't justify them, that's why they put them out. So, you have to wonder, everything else that they are withholding, why are they withholding it? And yet they are attacking Nunes. You think they would be attacking the people who were holding back documents. The one fair criticism I think they make is that ultimately the president is in charge of the executive branch and he's got to do -- to my mind, he's got to do a lot more than tweet that he's angry that there's not enough cooperation. I think he needs to start giving people orders to cooperate.
INGRAHAM: And finally, Judge Ellis, eastern district of Virginia, you know him well, I know him well, a no-nonsense judge, Reagan appointee. He was pretty adamant on Friday with the special counsel's office that it seems like they don't really care about Manafort. They want to use Manafort to get Trump. Your reaction to that back-and-forth. Andy Napolitano said people are kind of exaggerating the importance of what happened on Friday.
MCCARTHY: They may be exaggerating the importance in the sense that I don't think the case against Manafort is going to disappear even if the judge were to strike the indictment. And I don't think he's about to do that. But my main reaction, Laura, is that I'm glad that finally the questions that we've been asking for a year about the special counsel's jurisdiction, about the noncompliance of the Justice Department with the regulation in choosing him, about the way this investigation has been conducted from soup to nuts, they've been able to ignore the peanut gallery, but this is a federal judge who is asking the same hard questions, and they have to deal with them.
INGRAHAM: Everybody read Andy great peace in National Review about this whole redaction, withholding of documents mess. Andy, thanks so much.
MCCARTHY: Thank you.
INGRAHAM: And up next, how John McCain's 11th hour Trump bashing is exposing the media as a pack of two-faced opportunists. You are not going to want to believe this, you won't believe it, stay there.
INGRAHAM: Ailing John McCain is once again the media's favorite Republican now that he reportedly does not want President Trump at his funeral, and he also wishes he hadn't picked Sarah Palin as his running mate back in 2008. But McCain's fondness for the media hasn't always been a two-way street, as they routinely have trashed him when it suits their own purposes. In a 2006 article headlined "John McCain, The Sellout Express," "The Huffington Post" called the senator a, quote, "pandering politician who will stop at nothing to get elected." McCain's great sin? Agreeing to speak at Jerry Falwell's Liberty University. The Atlantic ran a piece during the 2008 presidential campaign titled "McCain, The Sellout," based on a fear that the candidate might govern as a conservative. And in a 2010 Vanity Fair piece headlined The Man Who Never Was, McCain is called so desperate to keep his Senate seat that he, quote, "repudiated his record, his principles, and even his maverick repetition, entrenching himself as the anti-Obama."
Here to talk about McCain, the man, is James H. Warner. He was a POW with him during the Vietnam War. Jim was a POW for six years and also my old colleague in the Reagan administration, a former policy adviser to President Reagan. And Frank Luntz, esteemed pollster, he's going to show how the media have used McCain over the years to fit whatever narrative that they find convenient at the moment. It's great to see both of you. Jim, I want to talk to you first. First of all, it's great to see you. Long time. I was young, you were even more handsome back then back in 1987, sharing an office together.
JAMES H. WARNER, FORMER POLICY ADVISER TO RONALD REAGAN: That's before I took on the appearance of a homeless man.
INGRAHAM: Oh, no, no. We like the homeless. It's all cool here. Jim, you better than anyone know the experience that John McCain had in Vietnam. You've known him for a long, long time. I know you haven't seen him for a while. But does it surprise you that he at the end decided he was going to make his funeral plans and make it explicit that Trump was not to be there?
WARNER: Yes, it does. But I don't know how far advanced this cancer is, but I know that -- I was told that it is very aggressive. And to say the things like he did about Sarah Palin -- look, I was with him. I warmed up an audience for him the day after the convention in a big rally north of Detroit, and he tried to introduce me to Sarah Palin, and we couldn't get near her because she was just mobbed by people. He was there at the convention when he introduced her, and he saw the electricity. I will tell you how it affected us. We were up in the booth. I turned to my left, I was sitting next to Bud Day, the most decorated American warrior in all history, and Bud had tears in his eyes. He was so moved. And that's the effect she had. So for him to be doing that -- I'm not going to hold anything against John for what he says in the last year. I don't know how much this disease has affected him, but the John that I know was one of the greatest heroes I ever knew, and one of the finest men I ever knew.
INGRAHAM: Frank Luntz, it is interesting to go back and see those headlines from all of the elite publications, John McCain the sellout, John McCain the phony fraud, all the things they said. But now he's hitting Trump and he has obviously been at odds with Trump on a number of policies, immigration, foreign policy to name a few, and now not just because I think he's obviously suffering terribly, I've lost three friends to glioblastoma in the last few years, a horrific disease. But you see the ebb and flow of their relationship.
FRANK LUNTZ, POLLSTER: It happened in 2000 when he was running against W. It happened in 2008 with Mitt Romney, so this is nothing new. And John McCain understood how to use the press to his own advantage. It's one of the reasons why he's such a good politician. And by the way, I want you to know it is an honor to sit next to you. And, frankly, I feel the same way about any of these men. They suffered, truly suffered in prisoner of war. And Donald Trump, I don't know if you remember, I was asking him questions in Iowa, and my interview where he said that John McCain is not a war hero. He walked that back later on. But McCain and the press, it seems like a pretty good relationship.
INGRAHAM: This is what S.E. Cupp said today on, I believe it was CNN. Let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
S.E. CUPP, HOST, "S.E. CUPP UNFILTERED": He is not a sellout. And I think having president Trump, just because he is the president, come and speak on his behalf or eulogize him or memorialize him would be selling out. And Senator McCain, I say this not just as his daughter's best friend but as a Republican who supported him, Senator McCain is everything that President Trump is not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WARNER: I have to say that somebody should have told Donald Trump before he said that about John. John was hit by a SAM, and he ejected, and his airplane was just disintegrated. One of the wings came off, and as soon as his chute opened the wing swung around, broke both of his arms and one of his legs, so I don't know how he was able to open up his Mae west, much less how he could swim. I have no idea how he survived in the lake, but I know that he could not possibly have done any resistance because he was helpless for several weeks after that. Bud Day had to take care of him. Bud Day had to feed him.
INGRAHAM: Could you hear him where you were in the Hanoi Hilton?
WARNER: I lived with him for two years.
INGRAHAM: In the same -- but you were separated -- you were there for six years and you are separated for a long time.
WARNER: Yes, but in '71 there was a big uprising amongst us and John McCain -- even though Bud Day was the senior man in himself, John McCain was credited with being the leader of that. In fact, on March 19 they took 36 of us out. We honestly thought we were being taken out to be executed, and John McCain made a joke about it. A man who can volunteer to die for religious freedom, that's what it was, and make a joke about it is really a top guy. I hold him almost the same status as James Stockdale.
INGRAHAM: Wow. To just hear the stories, Frank.
LUNTZ: He wouldn't go home. They said to him go home, but because he wasn't in terms of being captured, he refused, and so they beat him for it. And those that are critical of him because they don't like how he has voted on certain issues, who among us in this studio would give our legs, arms, our body, our lives for the country?
INGRAHAM: But he also said I think at one time, I was a POW, but we can disagree. John Kerry, he served his country proudly. He won the Bronze Star. But we disagreed with him on a lot of issues. So it's OK to disagree with people. You disagree with him on a lot of issues, and I assume you wouldn't disinvite Trump to your funeral. But that's his decision, he wants to do that. But the media are playing this cynically, Frank. That's what I'm saying. They are playing it -- when he's with the conservatives when he was running for reelection, he's strong on immigration. They were hitting him. But when he's hitting Trump, it's a different deal.
LUNTZ: I hope that he is still alive. I hope that he still gets a chance to see that in the end in so many areas, not all, that he was right, that he was courageous, and that in the end there was someone that we can say to our children, that is a role model. And think of how few role models we have today.
INGRAHAM: I don't like what they said about Sarah Palin. I don't think that was necessary. And I think if you don't want Trump to be at your funeral, you can just say, you can make it known. I don't think you have to write in the book. Everyone can do what they want, but there is a way to get that message out without like --
LUNTZ: But that's not his career. We should not judge him.
WARNER: I say, what he is saying right now -- I don't know how much that disease has affected him, but I know it's the frontal lobe and that's where you think.
INGRAHAM: And by the way, Jim when you were -- because you showed me this book. You wrote a calculus book, was that right?
WARNER: Analytic geometry, calculus and differential equations.
INGRAHAM: You showed me at the White House, I was like 23. I still don't understand calculus. You're are writing this while you are a prisoner of war, like 100 pages on this tiny little book. And I tell that story all the time.
WARNER: Actually, it's now in the Marine Corps archives. You can go to Quantico and see it.
INGRAHAM: Of course it is. You are amazing. I love you and I adore you. Frank, thank you for being with us, great conversation. And God bless John McCain, his entire family. It is a brutal disease. We need to find a cure for all cancers, but glioblastoma is especially awful. And coming up, will Trump finally killed the Iran deal tomorrow? Wow. Victor Davis Hanson and Ian Bremmer tell us next.
INGRAHAM: The Trump administration's trade negotiators left Beijing on Friday with no sign of a deal to level the playing field. That caused some analysts to worry that President Trump's application of tariffs and public pressure on China isn't working. Other analysts, however, believing that Beijing will eventually have to agree to a deal because it's so dependent upon the United States for trade. Let's get a read on the negotiations from a "National Review" columnist, Victor Davis Hanson, of the Stanford Hoover Institute, and NYU Professor Ian Bremmer who is the author of the great new book "Us Versus Them." VDH, let's start with you. Coming up empty, or is this just the normal process? It's not going to happen overnight. We didn't lose ground for China overnight and we're not going to have a deal with China overnight either.
VICTOR DAVIS HANSON, HOOVER INSTITUTION: I think it's part of the art of the deal negotiating style of Trump. And then Trump, when he came into office, I think everybody realized there was an asymmetry with China whether it was patent infringement or copyright or technology appropriation from American companies and dumping and cyber warfare, et cetera, et cetera. And that theory that if we work to give these concessions to China in the early '80s we would bring them into the family of nations and then their affluence and their economic boom would make them democratized and they would be sort of a helpful player in the world scene, that has been revealed to be flawed.
And I think it is sort of thematic of a lot of these asymmetrical -- the Iran deal, the open borders, the NATO contributions that we thought what was normal really wasn't. It was predicated on the idea that we were so strong and powerful we could always make concessions. And then in 2016 the people in between the coast said, you know what, we don't want to make concessions because we are not as powerful, at least we aren't, and as affluent as you people who create these deals. So there is a domestic, political element in all of these negotiations that Trump has to be careful of.
INGRAHAM: Ian, it is interesting to see how Trump has shifted the debate on China. I was going back just googling Trump was right on China. Financial Times -- I'm paraphrasing, but "Financial Times," Marco Rubio's way over, probably to the right of Trump on China, and now it is pretty much commonly thought China is cheating on a whole host of issues, they are stealing a lot of our intellectual property, and they are poised to eclipse the United States in a lot of different ways unless we recalibrate at least the playing field. Where do things stand now, and then we are going to move to the Iran deal real quick.
IAN BREMMER, AUTHOR, "US VERSUS THEM": They are more powerful. They are a larger economy. Their ability to promote their own companies because they are not becoming a free market economy is making it much harder for the Americans to have access. Trump has been hitting them particularly hard on the technology side, and that's where, frankly, we don't have a lot of interdependence. That's where I think the relationship is going to be more challenging. On trade, they want to export to us, we want to import from them, and it's a lot of our companies that are actually manufacturing and exporting to the United States. I don't think the headline is going to lead to a trade war. I think both sides will actually end up negotiating.
INGRAHAM: Let's go to you, VDH, on the issue of the Iran deal. Big decision tomorrow. Here's the headline from "The Telegraph" tonight, if Trump scraps the Iran nuclear agreement, why should North Korea make its own deal with America? That's the conventional wisdom, it's going to be bad for North Korea negotiations. I think you can make the other argument. You can say it actually shows that Trump will not sign on to a deal that he views is not in our interest or the interest of our Middle Eastern allies. Your reaction to this potential move?
HANSON: I agree with the latter interpretation, that North Korea will get a message that if it's not symmetrical it's not going to stand the test of time. But more importantly, we shouldn't even be here because that should have been a treaty and Obama did not have the votes in the Congress, the Senate, and so he went around them. And the sad thing about it, they were bleeding about $125 billion to $150 billion a year from those really tough sanctions. I give Obama's administration credit for finally ratcheting it up. Over the life of this first 10 and then the additional five years they are going to have about a half a trillion to $700 billion that they otherwise wouldn't have had. And we can see where that is going. It's going to destroy Syria. It's going to shoot missiles into Saudi Arabia. It's going for Hezbollah. And it's going to -- it wasn't more than six months after this treaty and they were shooting a missile at the USS Truman. They hijacked an American boat and they sort of humiliated people. So it didn't have the added effect of affecting their missile program or their behavior, and I don't think they were going to be able to produce any nuclear weapons in that 10 year period because they had civil unrest and their economy was ruined. And now they've got a green light in 10 years and I think they will take advantage of it.
INGRAHAM: Ian, where does this stand tonight?
BREMMER: Two things I would say. The first is that we know all of America's allies in Europe strongly oppose the United States leaving by ourselves. The French and the German leaders were here asking Trump to give them some time so that they could try to come up with what would be a tougher deal against the Iranians. If I was advising Trump right now I would say, you know what, May 12th is your deadline. Say that you listened to the allies, give them two more months. And then if it turns out they don't come up with anything else, you say it's their fault. You listen to the allies, you have the ability to blame them. If they give you something better than you are a hero and you've also got better credibility on Iran. Also one other point, Trump never brings up the fact that the one thing Americans care about is not the Middle East, but they want oil prices down. And this deal is actually keeping them down. He rips it up, prices go back up. That hurts Americans.
INGRAHAM: Wow, fascinating. Guys, we'll be watching tomorrow. Thanks so much.
Up next, the Kanye affect may be catching fire. Stay there.
INGRAHAM: Kanye West may have triggered a national dialogue about whether minorities should continue to toe the Democratic Party line. Bishop Aubrey Shines argues in a new Real Clear Politics peace that African-Americans are being taught to fear President Trump and to ignore the adverse impact that illegal immigration has had on their communities. He's the bishop of Glory to Glory Ministries and joins us from Tampa, Florida. It's great to see you.
AUBREY SHINES, FOUNDER, GLORY TO GLORY MINISTRIES: Thanks, Laura.
INGRAHAM: You on Kanye, this is just wild. But I've got play, it's a column that was published today in The Washington Post about Kanye West. This is from columnist Danielle Wiggins. She said "Kanye West is wrong. Freethinking, not blind loyalty, drew black voters to the Democrat Party. While he touts an individualists notion of freedom, his fellow black Americans are voting with their eye towards freedoms for all Americans, something he sadly doesn't seem to understand." Your reaction to that?
SHINES: First of all, Laura, I'm glad to be with you this evening, and while I don't necessarily share all of the misogyny that Kanye has put out in the past, I'm glad he's had an epiphany. And guys like myself, we've been doing this, and this is not our first rodeo. I'm glad again he's had this epiphany. But when I hear about the freedom from people like the "Post" and other super left leaning organizations, really it's pretty insulting. The real reason is because the Democratic Party has always been the party that has really kind of kept blacks on the plantation. They were ones that gave you the KKK. They are the ones that also gave you slavery. They are the ones that gave you the Jim Crow law. So I'm glad that there is a dialogue, and if Kanye is part of that conduit, I'm glad to hear that as well. I'm just glad that this dialogue is finally happening just outside of individuals and myself that have been doing this for a while.
INGRAHAM: You've been doing it for a decade. I want to talk about illegal immigration. You were hot on this issue. Obama back in 2006 in his book "The Audacity of Hope" highlighted illegal immigration as hurting the African-American community, depressing wages, and so forth. We won't bother people with the passage, we don't have time. But he basically makes the point that the huge influx of cheap labor hurts the poorest communities. But now black America is supposed to be yay, open borders. This is madness, madness.
SHINES: It is madness. This is what is so aggravating to me. It's not that blacks are, in my opinion, just adhering to it. It's those stations that are constantly pushing this and feeding that narrative to blacks. Here's the reality. Obama said it and it was cool to say. Now that Trump is basically saying almost identical, the same exact thing, what has CNN done? They've kind of painted him as a racist. He's not a racist. This guy has done more for blacks in America, especially as it relates to the unemployment, my God. If one was just to look at the numbers, you can see it yourself. Black unemployment, Hispanic unemployment, it is at its lowest levels ever. And we are actually having a dialogue in America as to what the borders are doing. I tell you what they are doing, Laura. They are killing our poor white and black people in our inner cities because drugs are constantly flowing in. And it's not just jobs.
INGRAHAM: It's got to end. It's got to end. We are going to have you back on radio, Bishop Shines. Thank you so much for your perspective tonight. We have a lot more to get to close it out, don't go away.
INGRAHAM: The annual Met gala is underway in New York City tonight. I can't believe I wasn't invited. Sarah Jessica Parker, it's the year's theme, heavenly bodies, fashion and the Catholic imagination. Rihanna is dressed up as the Pope. That's not cultural appropriation. Madonna, lord knows what that is. It looks like a shepherd girl. I don't know what that is. And then we have Chadwick Boseman from Black Panther, various crucifixes. Are they going to do that with the Prophet Mohammed and Islam? I doubt it. That's my thought. Cultural appropriation, you can't put on a sombrero at Cinco de Mayo, though. That's terrible.
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