This is a rush transcript from "The Story," December 18, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MARTHA MACCALLUM, HOST: Hello there, Bret, good evening. Great job with the toys. We're glad the kids are all happy. Breaking tonight here on "The Story," as the dismantling of some Obama-era principle sinks in despite all of the noise out there. There is a small but steady chorus, can you hear it?
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MACCALLUM: It's a Whoville of some never-Trumpers and some prominent Democrats, who are noticing that things like tax cuts, disappearing regulations, the repeal of Obamacare's mandate, the destruction of the ISIS caliphate, all those things that they thought they would never see in year one, not to mention the potential for four percent GDP growth in the fourth quarter of this year. Here's the president earlier today on the mood in the country as he sees it.
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PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: America is coming back, and America is coming back strong. With every decision and every action, we are now putting America first. We are rebuilding our nation, our confidence, and are standing in the world. Economic growth has tapped three percent for two quarters in a row. GDP growth, which is way ahead of schedule under my administration, will be one of America's truly greatest weapons. With the strategy I am announcing today, we are declaring that America is in the game and America is going to win.
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MACCALLUM: That was today in Washington. It was part of the national security speech that the president gave, but he did hit a lot on economic prosperity as he sees it. I'm joined now by Javier Palomares, who is the President of the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce. He also once called the president a complete clown. He's resigned from his diversity council, but he says he's feeling pretty good about the way things are going in the Trump administration. Is that fair, Javier?
JAVIER PALOMARES, PRESIDENT, HISPANIC CHAMBER OF COMMERCE: That's fair, Martha, thanks for having me.
MACCALLUM: So, what do you think? You know, you look at this, you look at the real-life impact because one of the things that we tried to do on this show every day is kind of sift through the noise and we talk about the stories that are going on out there, the Russia investigation is clearly on one of the burners in the country, but there are other burners and it seems like increasingly -- I'm reading editorials, hearing from people like you, who say, at the end of your one, I actually do feel like there's some progress being made.
PALOMARES: No question. You know, when we look at the economic growth of three percent, that is obviously great news for American business. When we look at the potential to finally passing critically needed tax reform, keep in mind we haven't seen meaningful tax reform since 1986. So, our American small businesses desperately need the help and we're thrilled that it looks like it might happen. And I want to urge all of the members of Congress on both sides of the aisle to get behind his tax bill and not pass up this opportunity.
MACCALLUM: There is not one Democrat who supports this.
PALOMARES: Well, you know, why? I was making phone calls today, I'm going to continue to make phone calls tonight. The fact of the matter is, I hope that they will agree with me that it's American small business that's driving economic growth. We're creating two-thirds of all new jobs in this country and we need tax reform.
MACCALLUM: There've been years where Democrats have said that they think the corporate tax rate is too high in the country, they've pushed for tax reform. I think that people look at this from the outside and say, there's not one Democrat who thinks -- it's far from perfect. There's plenty of things you can pick apart in this bill, and we've watched that process, but not one? Not one Democrat says I think it's pretty good for my district?
PALOMARES: You know. I want to urge all of our friends in the Congress to fight, you know, the urge to let perfect become the enemy of the good. This is a good tax bill. This is good for American business, it's good for the American economy, it's good for the American people. We need to get behind this thing.
MACCALLUM: What do you think about the big picture, Javier? Because you were very critical of the president, and as I said you quit his Diversity Council, you felt like they weren't taking it seriously. What about the other assets of the presidency?
PALOMARES: You know, there's going to be areas where I clearly, I clearly don't agree with the president. I didn't clearly agree on everything that President Obama did, for that matter. But the reality of it is, on this issue, I could not agree more. American small business is generally categorized as a sole proprietorship, about 95 percent of small businesses are categorized as a sole proprietorship. A sole proprietorship at a rate of 45 percent. This allows us to take a 20 percent tax deduction, and we need that tax deduction. It's high time, and I want to commend the administration and everybody who's got behind this.
MACCALLUM: Very interesting. Javier, thank you very much. Great to talk to you tonight.
PALOMARES: Thanks for having me, happy holidays.
MACCALLUM: You too, you too. Merry Christmas. Happy Holidays.
Let's bring a David Bossie, Trump 2016 deputy campaign manager and president of Citizens United; and Marie Harf, former spokesperson for both the State Department and the CIA, and both are Fox News contributors.
Marie, let me start with you on this. You know, in my office, I look at a bunch of different T.V. screens throughout the day, I look at what everyone's covering. We think about what we're going to put on the show every night, and, you know, we want to be fair and we want to give balance to what we're presenting every evening. But, you know, you look at these numbers, the potential for a four percent GDP, and then I read things from Javier who says, you know, I'm a Democrat, I would really like to see other Democrats get on board here. You look at housing numbers, which are very strong, retail numbers which are very strong. And you do have to ask yourself why there's not a little bit more credit being given on the Democratic side.
MARIE HARF, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR AND FORMER SPOKESPERSON FOR BOTH STATE DEPARTMENT AND THE CIA: Well, in general, look, President Trump also has a historically low approval rating. It's not just Democrats, it's moderates, independents, and it's some Republicans who say, sure, he's moving forward on tax reform but the divisiveness, the way he's handled certain issues like DACA, like the failed Obamacare repeal. He has had a number of issues he's not followed through on. And when you look at tax reform, you know, Democrats do support tax reform in principle, but this bill was written in secret, they didn't want Democrats to be a part of it and it really rolled back President Trump's promise to focus on the middle-class. If this were a middle-class tax bill, not a corporate, focused corporate wealthiest Americans tax cut, I think you would have Democrats on board.
MACCALLUM: I think you're going to have a lot of Democrats constituents, David, who look at this bill and they look at what they get back, you know. If the promises hold true, they're going to get the money back starting in February. They're going to be asking why some of their members of Congress won't support it.
DAVID BOSSIE, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR AND TRUMP 2016 DEPUTY CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Absolutely. The Democrats -- the problem with the Democrat Party is they have no ideas and no agenda for the American people. That's why they continue to lose elections and in droves. So, look, we -- this tax plan is good for all Americans, not Democrat or Republican, Conservative or Liberals. This is a good tax reform package for all Americans. So, I just want to say that the mainstream media just gives no credit to this president. This economy is on his back. He's carrying it through deregulation and through the sheer force of his will and he understands what businesses want and businesses know that they have a business-friendly president. Let me just say, if Barack Obama had had a three percent and near four percent GDP, he would've gotten a Nobel Prize for economics. That's the difference here. They can't even look at this objectively and say how good this would be for the American people.
MACCALLUM: You know, you look back at the carrier moment back in June of 2016 when President Obama said, you know, these folks, we have to do job training essentially. He said, look, some of these jobs are never coming back, right? And then, you look at the beginning of the Trump administration when they saved one carrier factory, 800 jobs. And you know, we looked at the balance on that, are they doing better because one factory did end up going to Mexico. But politi-fact judge that a promise kept, Marie. You know, there's a positivity that, you know, as you point out is not reflected in these numbers, which makes you wonder about the polling in some ways -- maybe it's accurate, maybe it's not. But there's a positivity that seems to be filled out there in America that isn't necessarily felt when you watch T.V.
HARF: Well, I think in some places. But look, President Obama also had a record number of months with consistent job growth. Record low unemployment coming out of the worst financial crisis since the great depression. So, President Trump inherited an economy that was growing, he has -- I agree, he has done things that have helped positively in terms of the market, people are expecting tax reform. But we need to talk out there in the country about the reality of this economy, promising coal miners that all of their jobs will come back because Donald Trump as president is irresponsible. We need to talk about where we're going in 2018, and 2019, and 202o, and not making these promises to get votes that aren't in the realm of possibility in today's economy. I think that's irresponsible and you're going to see voters, you've already seen anecdotal stories about voters in places like Indiana and West Virginia and Ohio -- where I'm from -- say, wait a second, we thought things were going to change, but they're not going.
MACCALLUM: Well, they're going to will look for the proof.
HARF: No doubt about it.
MACCALLUM: They will look for the proof.
MACCALLUM: David, last thought.
BOSSIE: What has changed is the stock market has 5,000 more points on it, the economy is growing leaps and bounds and that's what this president has done. And so, look, the Democrats just have no plan, they've never had an economic plan. They don't believe in tax cuts. Fundamentally, you're going to see no Democrats vote for this, and they're going to pay for it at the ballot box. Because when the economy continues to grow and we get four percent growth, 4.5 percent growth, then -- and the economy is humming. The American people are going to recognize who's responsible.
MACCALLUM: I got to go but, David, are you going to see entitlement reform from this president in 2018? Is that something that he will ever do?
BOSSIE: Oh, I think everything is on the table with this president. There are no third rails for this president. He's not afraid of anything, and he's going to take care of whatever economic ales this economy he is going to be addressing over the next couple of years.
HARF: Congress isn't going to get on board with him, no. They're worried about the election.
MACCALLUM: That's always -- don't get me started. All right. We'll talk about that next time. Thanks, you guys. Great to see you both tonight. And ahead tonight, a growing chorus on both sides of the aisle questioning Robert Mueller's ability to conduct an unbiased investigation into President Trump. Watch.
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ALAN DERSHOWITZ, LAWYER AND AUTHOR: I'm not a Republican, I'm a Democrat. I think he has a credibility problem. He should have been more careful about who he hired.
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MACCALLUM: And you know, over the weekend, the president was asked if he has any intention or ever had any intention of firing Robert Mueller -- his answer's ahead.
Plus, we're live on the scene of the deadly Amtrak crash today in Washington State that has already claimed several lives. How a local mayor may have predicted this tragedy and what officials are saying tonight, breaking news from Washington moments away.
And just a short time ago, the president unveiling a new path forward for America's national security and that includes some major shifts away from the way that things were done in the last eight years. Lieutenant Colonel Michael Waltz briefed by the president's national security advisor on the new strategy joins us next.
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TRUMP: You embraced new leadership and very new strategies and also a glorious new hope. The American people rejected the failures of the past.
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MACCALLUM: We have some new information tonight on the devastating Amtrak train derailment in Washington State earlier today. At this hour, at least six people are confirmed dead after the high-speed train that was on its maiden voyage jumped the tracks of an overpass south of Tacoma. It crashed down onto one of the state's busiest highways. Witnesses described a horrific scene: passengers screaming for their lives as first responders rushed into the train and try to pull them off of the one that was hanging over the overpass down onto the highway below. Dan Springer is live at the site tonight with the very latest information from Dupont, Washington as they try to figure out what happened here. Good evening, Dan.
DAN SPRINGER, FOX NEWS CHANNEL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Good evening, Martha. You know, one of the points of confusion has been just how many people were killed in this terrible accident this morning. The Associated Press reported that six people died, at least six. But nobody here on the scene has been able to confirm that number and perhaps part of the confusion is because they're having difficulty getting into some of those train cars that are still dangling over that Highway Trussell, that bridge where that train derailed this morning.
You can see that that is still dangling over the side, at least two of them are off of the tracks and over that thing. So, we believe that they have some of this heavy equipment in here, and you can see a light in there. They're looking at ways to shore up that train to be able to get inside, to see exactly how many people are inside. 70 people at least were injured. There were 77 people on the train, passengers, and then five crewmembers. It was a chaotic scene right afterward; the initial moments were picked up on scanners. Here's the train conductor.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Amtrak 501. Emergency, emergency, emergency. We are on the ground. We are on the bridge. Five on the surrounding. On the freeway. Need EMS ASAP. It looks like they're already starting to show up.
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SPRINGER: And of course, that touched off a frantic search and rescue effort as first responders and motorists tried to free train passengers trapped inside. 13 of the 14 train cars and engines derailed. Only the last engine parts stayed on the track. Several of them crashing down on the busy interstate at rush hour, 7:40 this morning. All of the victims were killed were on the train. We're now starting to hear from some of the survivors and their harrowing stories.
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UNIDENTIFIED: It hit my face, and so inside of my mouth was all cut up and I hit my jaw. My knee and a rib, but I'm basically fine. The cars ahead of us went down the hill and ours was stopped by hitting a tree.
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SPRINGER: We know that the train was traveling prior to the curve right over that Trussell, 79 miles per hour, which is a standard speed limit for the train in this corridor. However, at that point of that curve, the speed limit we understand it supposed to be no more than 30 miles per hour. NTSB will be looking into that and as well as many other issues. They expect to be here on the ground at about 10:00 tonight to start their investigation. Martha.
MACCALLUM: Dan, thank you very much. Dan Springer as we watched the developing news on that this evening.
And then, there is this: the president has made it clear since the campaign that America would look very different in the Trump-era. Here's President Obama talking about America's place in the world back then.
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BARACK OBAMA, 44TH PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There've been times where America showed arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive.
Our job to the Muslim world is to communicate that the Americans are not your enemy. We sometimes make mistakes. We have at times been disengaged and at times we have sought to dictate our terms.
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MACCALLUM: Compare that tone and message to the one we heard today as President Trump unveiled his Trump doctrine on national security.
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TRUMP: Our strategy calls for us to confront, discredit and defeat radical Islamic terrorism and ideology. We have dealt ISIS one devastating defeat after another. In Afghanistan, our troops are no longer undermined by artificial timelines. Our campaign of maximum pressure on the North Korean regime has resulted in the toughest ever sanctions. With the strategy, we are calling for a great reawakening of America -- a resurgence of confidence and a rebirth of patriotism, prosperity, and pride.
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MACCALLUM: So, what exactly does this new path mean for our homeland and for our place in the world? Here now Lieutenant Colonel Michael Waltz, Former Green Beret Commander, and Fox News Contributor. He was part of the small group that was briefed by President Trump's National Security Advisor, H.R. McMaster, before the speech that you saw the president give today. You have served under both of these commander-in-chiefs, Michael, Colonel.
MICHAEL WALTZ, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR AND FORMER GREEN BERET COMMANDER: That's right.
MACCALLUM: Talk to me a little bit about how -- what's different to you. What's different in the tone from President Obama to President Trump?
WALTZ: Well, a number of things were really striking to me. You know, one, just taking a step back, it really looks at the world very realistically as it is, and then tries to chart America's path within that world rather than looking at the world as we wish it to be -- which is what I think we saw the last eight years. So, what does that really mean? Well, one, I think philosophically, you know, this president is looking for America to lead within the world in accordance with its values and sees America as a force for good. Whereas President Obama, I think at his core saw American intervention as doing more harm than good and sought to pull that back.
The second thing is that, you know, it really sees the world -- you know, the United States in a competitive space from diplomatic information and military to economic period and acknowledges that and charts on how America is going to compete. And that's from pure competitors like Russia and China, that's from rogue states like Iran and North Korea, and that's from terrorist organizations like ISIS and al-Qaeda.
MACCALLUM: He said that we accept that vigorous military economic and political contests are now playing out all around the world. We face rogue regimes that threaten the United States and allies. We face terrorist organizations, transnational criminal networks and others who spread violence and evil around the globe. We face rival powers Russia and China that seek to challenge American influence, values and wealth. There were those who watched the speech today and said that the actual text of the new national security plan was much tougher on Russia than the way the president spoke about it today. You were privy to that plan, do you agree?
WALTZ: I do agree. And, you know, a couple of things that he put front and center, which hasn't been done before to this degree anyway, and that is particular economic security. You know, if America isn't driving economically, then it isn't safe. Economic security is national security. And looking at things like currency manipulation at the wholesale theft of the United States technological edge at unfair trade deals. Those are all things that this administration is looking to take on as national security issue, not as sideline kind of economic issues. It also looks at areas like space where the Chinese are incredibly aggressive right now in challenging American dominance and then charts a course on how the United States is going to challenge and lead in space whether it's through the commercial sector like SpaceX or through national security sector.
MACCALLUM: Well, there's no doubt that China and Russia, both want to be the dominant force in the world. And in order to compete with that, we're going to have to be ready.
WALTZ: And that is not in line with American values, absolutely.
MACCALLUM: Thank you so much, Colonel Waltz.
WALTZ: All right.
MACCALLUM: Good to see you as always. Thanks for being here.
WALTZ: Thanks, Martha. OK.
MACCALLUM: So, she led the fight for women's rights and the women's march on the day that Donald Trump took office.
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LINDA SARSOUR, POLITICAL ACTIVIST AND PRESIDENT OF 2017 WOMEN'S MARCH: I will respect the presidency, but I will not respect this president of the United States of America!
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MACCALLUM: So now, one of Linda Sarsour's employees says she's very different at the office. No different than any other enabler of sexual assault. We'll talk about that. Plus, is Al Franken really going to leave the Senate? New rumors tonight that he might rescind his resignation. Can he do that at this point? Tammy Bruce joins me when we come back.
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SEN. JOE MANCHIN, D-W.VA.: It's just unbelievable to me how you can destroy a human being's life and his family and everything that they stand for without giving him a chance.
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Do you think he really will resign in January?
MANCHIN: I don't know, I really don't.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Developing tonight, new accusations of harassment and inappropriate behavior rocking big business, sports, government -- a growing number of powerful leaders pushed out of their positions in 2017. But it comes as the nation is trying to figure out whether or not in some cases there were too quick to rush to judgment. And that's going to be one of the big questions that we grapple with in the new year. Some even suggesting that there should be a pause button hit in some of these cases, perhaps in the case of Senator Al Franken, should he stay put as he is pending -- the investigation is pending. His fellow Senator Joe Manchin went so far as to say the Democrats treatment of him has been hypocritical. Trace Gallagher reports from our West Coast Newsroom. Hi, Trace.
GALLAGHER: Hi, Martha -- hi, Martha, both Senators Joe Manchin and Pat Lahey say that Al Franken should not resign. But there's a difference because Senator Manchin has held that position from the beginning, saying that Franken should have his case heard out. And today on CNN, Manchin was asked straight out if Franken was planning to leave. Watch.
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CAMEROTA: You think Senator Franken should not resign in January?
MANCHIN: I definitely think he should not resign. I think he should submit himself, which he has willingly done and offered to do, and go through this complete process of an extensive ethics review and whatever the outcome is I will live with it.
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GALLAGHER: Senator Pat Lahey also wants Al Franken to stay, but that's not the way he felt a few weeks ago when he said that even a prompt investigation by the Senate Ethics Committee would not come soon enough, and he's got a point. Considering the last time, the Ethics Committee took serious action against a sitting senator was during Bob Packwood's sexual misconduct accusations 25 years ago, and that investigation took three years. Other Democratic senators who called on Franken to step down are standing by their decisions.
Things in the world of sports are moving much faster. Carolina Panthers owner Jerry Richardson now says he is selling the team. The 81-year-old, Richardson, has been accused of workplace misconduct that Sports Illustrated says includes sexually suggestive language, inappropriate comments, and at least one racial slur. A top female executive will now run the Panthers until they're sold. Sean Diddy Combs has already said he's interested in buying and that his first move would be to get controversial quarterback Colin Kaepernick back on the field. And the top man in ESPN, John Skipper, has now stepped down as president. ESPN has been hit with its own sexual misconduct allegations, but Skippers says his resignation is because of substance abuse problems, though he did not specify, only saying, quoting, I come to this public disclosure with embarrassment, trepidation and a feeling of having let others I care about down. Skipper's contract had just been renewed last month and we're told the decision has nothing to do with Disney, the owner of ESPN, buying most of 21st Century Fox, the owner of us. Martha.
MACCALLUM: Trace, thank you very much. Joining me now Tammy Bruce, columnist for the Washington Times and a Fox News contributor. Tammy, it's like four, five, six, seven people a week. We tried to put together a list of all the leaders in corporate America, in the media, in sports.
MACCALLUM: . you can barely get your arms around the numbers that are involved in this list. But Al Franken since the very beginning, people have wondered because he said he wasn't going to leave right away, if he's going to change his mind?
TAMMY BRUCE, THE WASHINGTON TIMES COLUMNIST: Yeah. Look, when he first said this he never said he was resigning, and yet all the media coverage after the fact is that he resigned. I went on radio, I've been here on Fox saying, wait, he's not resigned. He hasn't said when he's going to. And I think this is of course before the Roy Moore case at that election thinking that he would get in. But let's keep in mind what the congress has to deal with. Jackie Spears said that there're 260 individual cases that were paid out through the shush fund. That would involve not just sexual harassment but racial discrimination, et cetera. If we have the precedent of a series of individuals, John Conyers is already stepped away. That seems to be a unique dynamic, but I think that there's an expectation that if Franken resign, thank God, forbid, we might expect others to resign, especially if they can't protect those names on that list, because that is the next demand that people want to see the sides. If you have an ethics committee and people within your club there are judging you, are some of those people on the ethics committee involved with the shush fund? How can we know if there's fairness? How can an Al Franken know if there's fairness? So.
MACCALLUM: But should there be some form of real due process where you have to hear both sides of these stories? Because, as we know, there's a huge range of behavior that we're talking about here, and in some cases perhaps some of these men should push back.
BRUCE: Yeah. Al Franken has not denied -- in one case he's denied that these accusations occurred. When you're looking at the men who are leaving and the big public dynamics like Weinstein, this is low-hanging fruit. This is something that's gone on for years or decades, that everyone has known about or put up with, and now those protections are gone and women and men have felt that they could move. Then you mentioned Linda Sarsour or even George Takei, who plays Sulu on Star Trek. I loathe both of their politics, and yet each individual accusation. If you've got -- normally you would have a systemic problem that others are aware of as well. We're seeing that play out. So it is in a way a case by case basis. But look, you've got individuals who then resign, who say they will resign or they're stepping away or -- they know what other people know.
MACCALLUM: I just want to mention Linda Sarsour for a minute here because the hypocrisy that appears is remarkable. She led the women's march, she'd lashed out against President Trump, and she's got a woman who works in our office who says that she was subjected to some horrific sexual harassment and she was told -- she was fat shamed by Linda Sarsour, said that, you know, she was critical of this woman's body, and then she was told he's a good Muslim and he's always at mosque, so back off.
BRUCE: Look, I've spent a lot of time in the feminist movement. I work in environments where it's been mostly women leadership. And a lot of people say women would handle these issues differently. Well, we don't know that yet. Women have not been in leadership positions for an extended period of time with complete control for us to know how we would behave with that kind of free money and free power. But what I've experienced is, I've been helped by both men and women and hindered by both men and women. And so, I say as feminist, women can do whatever men can do, but case-by-case basis. And in the meantime, this is a correction and we're going to be fine. But we need to be smart about it.
MACCALLUM: And I think we have to look at it as a question of bad behavior regardless of gender.
BRUCE: Yes, exactly.
MACCALLUM: So we'll see. Tammy, thanks, always good to see you.
BRUCE: My pleasure.
MACCALLUM: Thanks for coming in tonight. So still ahead this evening, outraged over a kid in a bacon costume leading critics to cry anti- Semitism? Are we overreacting? Where does this end? Wait until you hear what happened to the kid in the bacon suit. Plus, President Trump said that he will not fire Robert Mueller, but now even some Democrats are questioning his credibility. An increasing number, actually, are speaking out about what they see as an unfair investigation. Ed Henry, Judge Andrew Napolitano, joining me next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: When you're going after the president you have to Caesar's wife, you have to be above reproach. You can't give the other side any ammunition, and he has given the other side plenty of ammunition.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: So the hits keep on piling up against special counsel Robert Mueller's Russia probe, and it could be spelling some trouble for the nonpartisan investigation it's supposed to be, but they're getting increasing criticism not from the White House but from a prominent Democrat who is suggesting that the investigation may not be fair. Chief national correspondent Ed henry gets us up to speed from the White House tonight. Hi, Ed.
ED HENRY, FOX NEWS CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Martha, good to see you. In fact, Democrats trying hard to pour gasoline on this fire by spreading rumors, and that's all it is right now, suggesting that President Trump will try to fire Robert Mueller. The president flatly denying that, but in fact there are some Democrats suggesting maybe the special counsel's credibility is being undermined. And in fact, allies with the president are trying to directly undermine that credibility. A lawyer for the president's transition team trying to make the case Mueller himself came to the probe by obtaining tens of thousands of emails from the time period between the election and the inaugural. Mueller did this not by issuing a subpoena that would have been found out by the White House, but by quietly going directly to the general services administration, which helps manage bureaucratic functions including the presidential transition.
Trump for America Counsel Inc. council, Kory Langhofer, declaring that career government employees, potentially hostile to the president, quote, unlawfully produced the transitions private materials including privileged communications to the special counsel's office. Peter Carr, a spokesman for the special counsel push back on that, quote, when we have obtain emails in a course of our ongoing criminal investigation, we have secured either the account owner's consent or appropriate criminal process. But Alan Dershowitz, as you mentioned, a lifelong Democrat says this was a close legal call, so it was foolish for Mueller to fail to make this airtight by seeking an easily obtainable warrant. Dershowitz adding that Mueller should have immediately disclosed to the public he had in fact removed that FBI agent, Peter Strzok, from the case because of anti-Trump text messages rather than waiting a couple of months for everyone to find out. Another Democrat, Mark Penn, who advised then-President Bill Clinton just conducted a poll suggesting the public is skeptical of the Mueller probe.
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ALAN DERSHOWITZ, LAWYER: I think he has a credibility problem on these emails without a warrant. I think he has a credibility problem if he used the dossier in order to get national security wiretaps. He has been conducting a sloppy investigation and that's a typical of him. I'm surprised. When you're going after the president you have to be Caesar's wife. You have to be above reproach.
MARK PENN, CLINTON WHITE HOUSE POLLSTER: It's pretty obvious here that these text messages are only going to pile on to this growing -- I think, crisis in public confidence of an operation here with a new FBI director and a special counsel that was supposed to provide more objective look at these things.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: Now, Penn was referring to that interview with you, Martha, to a poll he conducted for the Hill newspaper that found 54 percent of the public believe that Mueller has conflicts of interest in this investigation, 63 percent of the public saying they believe the FBI is withholding key information. Martha?
MACCALLUM: Yeah. Pretty surprising numbers given, you know, 38 percent approval rating for the president as he pointed out. There are a number of people in that poll who aren't big fans of the president, but who are questioning the nature of this investigation and how fair it is. Ed, thank you very much, good to see at the White House as always. So here now with me in the studio, Judge Andrew Napolitano, Fox News senior judicial analyst. Judge, you just heard Alan Dershowitz. He said that this investigation and the way in particular the handling of obtaining these emails was sloppy, do you agree?
ANDREW NAPOLITANO, FOX NEWS SENIOR JUDICIAL ANALYST: No, I don't agree. Bob Mueller doesn't issue subpoenas. He gets them from a grand jury. In order to get them from a grand jury somebody has to present a need to the grand jury. So someone testified to the grand jury and they issued the subpoena. Now, when you.
MACCALLUM: Dershowitz said that's not a hard process, and he should have done that.
NAPOLITANO: Professor Dershowitz says he should have gotten a search warrant. No judge will sign a search warrant, as a person who has signed thousands of them, no judge will sign a search warrant when the documents are in the hands of a third person. You sign a search warrant when you're worried about the defendant getting rid of the documents. So when they're in the hands of a third person, here a computer server in the possession of the government, the proper way to do this is by a subpoena, which is what Bob Mueller did. Here is where the ball was dropped, and it wasn't dropped by Bob Mueller. It was dropped by the GSA, the government entity and the executive branch that owned the server. They should have said to the transition lawyer we just got a subpoena from Mueller. We have two weeks to comply. Here's a copy of it. Do you want to go challenge it before a judge? We'll let a judge call it. They didn't tell the transition lawyer's. That's why the transition lawyers were so upset when they found out about it. But there is a danger here because Bob Mueller has already, through his FBI agents, interviewed all the people in the west wing who worked in the transition and they probably didn't know at the time of those interviews the FBI agents doing the interviews had read their emails.
MACCALLUM: Then they can point out whether or not they give the same story.
MACCALLUM: . in the email and the testimony.
NAPOLITANO: Correct. They can do the same thing to these people in the west wing they did to General Flynn. Is this right? In my opinion it's profoundly wrong, but it's done by all federal prosecutors today since 1986 when they changed the law, they're permitted to do this.
MACCALLUM: And to the attorneys for all of those people have asked that question, do you have any documents that we should know about?
NAPOLITANO: Yes. And most of the interviews, Martha, people in the west wing, they didn't have attorneys. If they had attorneys they would have said, you tell me in writing every document about my client that you've reviewed or you're not going to interview my client, that's the way to do it. And it wasn't done this way.
MACCALLUM: Firing Mueller, firing Rosenstein. Those are two issues that you see about all over the place, your thoughts on those?
NAPOLITANO: I agree profoundly with Ed henry. These were rumors concocted by Democrats over the weekend to make the president appear reckless.
MACCALLUM: He's never said that he's going to fire him.
NAPOLITANO: No. In fact, he denied it profoundly and I'm glad that he did because if that were to happen the investigation doesn't go away, the heat is just raised. The congressional angst is raised, the investigation could be reset to square one, and we would be going through all of this again, and I think the president's lawyers --
MACCALLUM: What about Rosenstein?
NAPOLITANO: I'm not happy with his management of the Justice Department. As you and I discussed last week, I see a passivity there when he said I consulted Bob Mueller. What do you mean you consulted? You're his boss. Your job is to manage Bob Mueller.
MACCALLUM: Overseeing the special counsel.
NAPOLITANO: Correct. I don't see a basis for firing, but I understand the White House disenchantment with it.
MACCALLUM: Judge, thank you.
NAPOLITANO: You're welcome.
MACCALLUM: Always good to see you.
MACCALLUM: So up next, you probably thought this was fiction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: Can use say E.T.? E.T.
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: E.T.
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: E.T. E.T. E.T.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: He was better than that? So did he really exist this little guys? Harry Reid tried to get to the bottom of it by giving millions of your tax dollars to his friend who had a company that was going to look into this project for you. Charles Hurt and Richard Fowler on that and other things when we come back tonight.
MACCALLUM: A CNN contributor got burned by some bacon, you could say. It happened at Saturday's matchup between Georgetown and Syracuse where CNN's Hillary Rosen spotted a Georgetown fan wearing a bacon suit, so she tweeted look at the guy in the bacon suit. This is a Georgetown Hoyas fan anti- Semitic smear to the Syracuse team. For her hot take received a quick rebuttal from Michael Bacon, it looks like Bakan, but the man in the bacon suit tweeted, hey, its bacon man, it's actually Mr. Bakan, pronounced bacon. It is just a fun costume. Here now, Charles Hurt, political columnist at the Washington Times, and Richard Fowler, a nationally syndicated radio talk show host. Both are Fox News contributors. Welcome, gentleman. Oh, my goodness.
MACCALLUM: I mean, the poor guy. He goes -- he says one of the reasons that I enjoy basketball games at Georgetown is that I can express myself and have a little fun with my friends during the oftentimes stressful college environment. To see some of that being interpreted differently is not the best feeling he says. So she, to her credit, said awesome, you found me, thanks for telling me. I'm new to this school rivalry and got some bad info. I apologize and took down my tweet. Charlie?
CHARLIE HURT, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Seriously. How embarrassing must have be -- to be, sort of, out safe spaced by a college student, and you're a grown adult like Hillary Rosen. But the real question I have is do you really think she was offended? I don't think she was really offended by it. I think she saw an opportunity to score political points by doing what Democrats always do, which is divide people by race and gender and religion, and so she went there. And I'm glad she humiliated herself, and I'm glad that Mr. Bacon blew her up for it.
MACCALLUM: I mean, can you imagine her embarrassment, Richard, when he's like my name is bacon and this is the third time I've worn this suit, and I think it's funny because -- I'm Mr. Bacon. It's really a dashing suit, I might add, Richard.
RICHARD FOWLER, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: It's a very nice suit. Not something that I would wear.
HURT: Come on, Richard. I've seen you in a bacon suit.
MACCALLUM: He's right next to the pope, too.
FOWLER: I mean, I do have some wardrobe options that are very edgy, but bacon not so much. But in all seriousness, I mean, listen, Charlie, I don't think you can politics into this. I think Hillary Rosen's embarrassment is enough on this one. And I don't think she was trying to play identity politics. I think she clearly made a mistake, his name is bacon. And she got fried for it.
MACCALLUM: There are just so many possibilities here.
FOWLER: But this is still really sort of funny. His name is bacon.
MACCALLUM: I doubt she's going to hit the tweet button quickly next time.
FOWLER: Once you write the tweet, you read it over again, take a deep breath, and your read it again and then you tweet it.
MACCALLUM: I know. I get fired up during football games. I sometimes.
HURT: She should go back to just sticking to tweets lecturing Donald Trump about the proper way to send proper tweets.
MACCALLUM: All right. I want to get in Harry Reid, because he apparently made it so that $22 million of taxpayer money went to Robert Bigelow, a billionaire friend of his who is very interested in UFO's and has a company called Bigelow Aerospace that tries to track them down. And Harry Reid says he doesn't feel bad about it at all. In fact, he considers it to be - - he said I'm not embarrassed or ashamed or sorry that I got this thing going. I think it's one of the good things that I did during my congressional service. I've done something that no one has done before. Charlie.
HURT: It certainly a crowd pleaser, but I think that probably what he's actually doing is he's probably looking for more voters because once Democrats institute all of their policies and run off all of the people that they now have as Democrats, they're going to need to import even more new voters.
FOWLER: That argument is so laughable. I thought it was laughable as Hillary Rosen's tweet. I mean, listen, to don't get me wrong. There's way too much fraud, waste and abuse happening in our government. A lot of it happens at the Pentagon. This is a great example of it, whether it's a Democratic Party doing it or the Republican Party doing it, it all happens at the Pentagon.
MACCALLUM: Yes or no because I've got to go. Do you believe in UFO's, Richard?
FOWLER: But, hey, listen, if you're tweeting about bacon.
MACCALLUM: Yes or no? UFO's?
FOWLER: Mayne there's UFO's.
MACCALLUM: Maybe, Charlie, I've got to go, 2 seconds.
HURT: Of course I do. They're unidentified flying objects. I've seen them all the time
FOWLER: This good investment, Charlie. This is a good investment.
MACCALLUM: Goodbye, guys.
MACCALLUM: So any minute now, it's movie night at the White House. President Trump is going to sit down with 30 members. He issued an invitation late today, said come on over, bipartisan folks from the hill, and we're going to watch the new Churchill movie, "The Darkest Hour." It is the story of his leadership during England's darkest hour after the fall of France in World War II. Churchill's job was to convince the British people that the war against Nazi Germany was winnable even if the British Empire had to fight it alone. He said this. "It must be remembered that we are in the preliminary stage of one of the greatest battles in history. What is our aim? I can answer in one word. It is victory. Victory at all costs. Victory in spite of all terror. Victory, however long and hard the road may be, for without victory, there is no survival."
And right he was. And victory it was. Send me one of your favorite quotes and maybe we'll put it on at the end of the show. You can email me at email@example.com. Have a great night, everybody. That's our story for tonight. Tucker is up next.
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