TRANSCRIPT

Conservatives silenced on campus

What is left when free speech is silenced?

 

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," April 26, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Thanks, Tucker. If that's your real name. I am Greg Gutfeld with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Jesse Watters and a guardian host, water slide Dana Perino. You are watching "The Five."

Ann Coulter's Berkeley speech has been canceled because she could not be protected. Interesting. You have to wonder, if it were a radical liberal, would there have been an issue? It's only when you question leftist dogma that the dogs come out. Call it a victory for the Sharia snowflakes on campus because even cancelling as a safety precaution, still blocking free speech. Fear, won. And fear of what, exactly?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE BERKELEY PROTESTER: I am here to protest this administration. All the lies. Things that they're hiding. We feel like if he releases his tax documents, we'll be able to find reasons -- we have reasons to believe there's collusion with foreign states. The chicken mask is because Donald Trump is afraid to show his taxes. He's being a chicken.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: It's a good look.

So, let's assess the safety argument. They can't protect the right but have no problem protecting the left. Imagine calling 911 and the operator says "Someone's on their way, unless you voted Trump." But the concern for violence is actually pretty real. The modern progressive movement believes that dissenting language is objectionable which then removes the brakes between anger and violence.

Consider this simple equation: You stub your toe. What do you do? Generally, you swear. But imagine if you couldn't swear? Then, what would you do? You pound the table, you punch the wall. That is what happens when language is cut out from the equation. You have violence.

Language turned apes like us into civil creatures. And the regressive left has us reverting to cavemen by caving in to enforce silence. It's not going to last. The campus left now faces an opposition once stuck on message boards, cable news and talk radio. The new right is coming and not to sing folk songs.

I blame it on safe spaces. By silencing speech, the new left makes life more dangerous by leaving violence as the only option. Maybe that's what they want.

All right, K.G. --

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Yes.

GUTFELD: We now have a bona fide anti-free speech movement. I mean, this is now for real. It's actually happening. Do we have a free speech movement? This is the reverse.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. It is really a free-speech epidemic. Because free speech is under siege in this country. And it is dead at universities. And this was the place where you went to really open your mind to be able to listen to other people, maybe disagree with them. Maybe vehemently but at least you let them speak and you listen to them. Now what we are seeing is they are using the threats of violence and saying oh, there is going to be violence so therefore we are going to sensor your speech because we believe that what we think and our ideologies are superior to yours. And we don't want to hear it out in front of these students for you're going pollute their minds with conservative ideas.

GUTFELD: Uh-hm. You know, Juan, they say, they're worried about a threat of violence but in a way, isn't that a copout? What they're basically saying is they don't want to defend or have to deal with this headache which is free speech?

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Well, I just don't see there is any way to defend this. I mean, to me, free speech is such an important tenet of our democracy. You got to have free debate free speech. And we'll note here that people like Bill Maher to Chris Matthews on the Left have said that Berkeley is out of control here, that this is wrong, you can't do this.

GUTFELD: But then why is this happened? If there are left icons like those two, how come it is still happening? There is some support from the Left for this. The regressive Left still seems to be growing.

WILLIAMS: No, I think what you heard from the protesters dressed up as a chicken, I know you admire the outfits.

GUTFELD: Yes, I own three.

WILLIAMS: Is that right?

GUTFELD: Yes.

WILLIAMS: You look lovely.

GUTFELD: I do.

WILLIAMS: You look marvelous. But anyway, if a lot of this is anti-Trump and don't forget, Ann Coulter -- Ann Coulter by the way has written some very effective books challenging orthodoxies including in this civil rights community that I admire but Ann Coulter is someone who says, you know, basically, stuff that, I mean, you would think it is ridiculous like poll taxes, let's bring back poll taxes or guess what, we should kill foreign leaders and invade foreign countries and convert them all to Christians. But the point is and this is what Kimberly was saying earlier, what is wrong with the debate?

GUTFELD: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

WILLIAMS: I got fired, I've been tossed --

GUTFELD: Yes.

WILLIAMS: -- by the left wing intolerance for honest statements and debates. I have scars from this. I have written a book about this. And let me tell you something. The fact is that free-speech should not be attacked by the Left. It is total hypocrisy when you see this coming from the Left, even an anti-Trump moment.

GUTFELD: Uh-hm.

JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: I hope the chicken suit lady is a listening to you, Juan. That was very, very effective.

GUTFELD: Do you think --

GUILFOYLE: The chickens coming to roost.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: Nice. Jesse --

WATTERS: Yes.

GUTFELD: It does prove though that the threat of violence works. I mean, there is no denying it.

WATTERS: Right.

GUTFELD: But they did this because they thought there was going to be trouble.

WATTERS: Right. And they caved to the mob and the mob won and now the mob is emboldened. And it sets a very dangerous precedent. I looked on the Berkeley website today, a hell a lot of times in my hand, and they have safe spaces for just about anybody. They have safe spaces for Muslims, they have safe spaces for undocumented students, they have safe spaces for American Indians but they don't have a safe space for a conservative.

And the problem was, they didn't think they could protect Ann Coulter and I believe they couldn't protect either because it was incompetence or they didn't want to protect Ann Coulter. But either way, the mob won and even the ACLU sticks up for Ann Coulter. So, what they could have done, they could have brought in metal detectors, they could have brought up a beefed up a security presence. They could have had cameras, they could have threatened these students or any activists. If you're going to do this, we're going to prosecute you to the fullest extent of the law, they could have brought in bikers for Trump around, you know, scare people a little bit.

WILLIAMS: That would have provoked violence.

WATTERS: You know what I mean, they could have done a lot of stuff and now Berkeley looks weak because they could not handle it.

GUTFELD: You know, and I imagine they were worried about what happens outside of the campus on the street but that still -- that's why you have law enforcement.

WATTERS: Right.

GUTFELD: Dana, Berkeley gets taxpayer funding.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Yes.

GUTFELD: It's a public school. I am a proud alumni. Or is it alumnus?

WATTERS: I never know.

GUTFELD: I don't either. That shows you my education --

PERINO: They have disavowed you just saying that.

GUTFELD: Yes. I pretend I never went --

(CROSSTALK)

Yes. I donate nothing to that college. Yes. Anyway. Berkeley should provide security. They are a public school.

PERINO: This whole thing is really bizarre. And you just said something though, when you were talking about how in your monologue about violence, that is what terrorists do. Terrorists use violence to advance their political agenda.

GUTFELD: Uh-hm. Right.

PERINO: That is actually the textbook of what they do. And I think that this is very similar to that.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: I'm not saying that -- I am not saying that the Left are terrorists but that is the same name. And it's exactly what our founding fathers knew would be a problem.

GUTFELD: Right.

PERINO: That if you had free-speech, you could advance the society and grow the greatest country the world has ever seen. And I would bet that these students would probably march for other countries free-speech rights.

GUTFELD: Yes. Well, there are some countries that infringe on rights they don't really care about.

PERINO: That they don't care about.

GUILFOYLE: Like Sharia law.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: Like in the student launch at Berkeley where you went.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: There was like a note, hey, wait, let's get together and we will fight, you know, let's march for people's rights and women's rights in Saudi Arabia -- would they show up for that.

GUTFELD: I don't know. I don't know. But they would show up if you said let's march for women's rights in Trump land --

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: Like in Trump's America. Like, you know, if the handmade tale, every, the world is going to hell under Trump. But then you go, no actually gays are being executed in this country, women are being stoned in this country, they're like. But that is not under Trump. So I don't get - -

GUILFOYLE: How bad is this? Like Janet Napolitano, what an epic fail on her part. If anybody should have a little bit of more global understanding of how to protect free speech and students, you think it would be her. And UC Berkeley and UC Davis -- oh, please, top three percent in the country. Give me a break. So, if you, the thing is, if you go to a school like that and especially Berkeley that is always been known sort of this like the beacon, the shining light of free speech. And all the protests and marches at Berkeley, what they want to be censored? And say, you know what, I am so sorry, it's just too expensive to hear you talk.

WILLIAMS: You know, I got to say, by listening to all of you, I am so proud tonight that you guys are standing up for free-speech. Because I remember when people at those Trump rallies used to say things that people did, like oh, and they punch them and knock them down.

WATTERS: Those were paid protesters.

WILLIAMS: Oh, I see. I see.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: We caught you side on tape.

WILLIAMS: And when you guys want to have a conversation about things like debt and deficit, specially, oh, don't talk about it, let's not bring that up.

GUTFELD: Are you kidding?

WILLIAMS: Oh, no!

(CROSSTALK)

Oh, how about when police abuse their power and her and kill black people? Oh, let's not talk about it. No!

GUTFELD: We don't talk about that. I think we did a segment on "The Five" every day for the summer last year.

WILLIAMS: Yes. All we do is we say, oh, cops are right and if you really believe in law and order back that.

GUTFELD: All right.

WILLIAMS: The silent majority believe me is conservative and often silencing just as much.

GUTFELD: Juan, okay. Why would you think that we would take this side of the police because the mainstream media doesn't so we are providing the fair and balanced approach? You might say on this table, we aren't fair, what we are trying to do is actually provide fairness in the greater context of the news. That is why we say enough with law enforcement.

WILLIAMS: And you think that the middle class in America doesn't like the police? I think people love it.

WATTERS: You know what --

GUTFELD: The media hates.

WILLIAMS: I don't think the media hates.

WATTERS: And Juan, you know what the Berkeley police are operating under?

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God!

WATTERS: The let them have space to riot situation, those are the orders from the top. And then the campus police are operating under stand down orders. They can't engage any of these radical violent protesters unless someone's life is in imminent danger. So, they let this chaos explode. If they had been tougher in the beginning, none of this would have happened.

WILLIAMS: Let's take us back to like the '70s, and Ed Meese on the campus is out in California when Ronald Reagan was governor.

GUTFELD: Right. Yes.

WILLIAMS: And you know, they went in, they said hey to cops, go get them.

GUILFOYLE: No. But now it becomes anything goes. And they riot, they break the law. They commit acts of violence. The destruction of property.

WILLIAMS: Those people should be arrested.

GUILFOYLE: They should be prosecuted and the cops should move in and take care of it. And that is what they're paid to do. That is upholding the law. That's enforcing the law and that is what makes public safety work and community safe and protect your rights to speak --

WILLIAMS: I agree.

GUTFELD: Except for me. Dana?

PERINO: Well, I didn't mean to avoid your question earlier about the public university.

GUTFELD: I noticed that.

PERINO: So, this is taxpayer-funded. Right?

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: There was a study that came out today. It was printed out on the front-page of the business section on the Wall Street Journal. Sixty percent of graduates who are graduating this year are not ready to take the jobs that are available. So, we have a better economy and they can't actually do the jobs that are available to them. That is actually what the universities should be thinking about.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: And critical thinking -- and being able to handle your emotions --

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

PERINO: This is so bizarre I have to talk about this college student, that whatever happened to just not going to a speech if you don't like it?

GUTFELD: No, that's true. That's the easiest decision. And the other thing too is the threat of violence was how communist countries, socialist countries kept people from actually protesting.

PERINO: Yes.

GUTFELD: Those are the very same countries that leftists romanticize. Look at Venezuela. Venezuela is crumbling and you don't even hear about it. There is nobody on campus talking about the fact that protesters are dying in Venezuela which is a product of a socialist country, of a horrible system.

PERINO: We need to do a segment on that.

GUILFOYLE: We need to go.

GUTFELD: I'm going to do that tomorrow.

PERINO: Okay.

GUTFELD: Coming up, it's California versus Trump. The war heats up between the golden state and the President over his attempt to clamp down on sanctuary cities. Details on the escalating fight. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUILFOYLE: The battle lines are drawn. A showdown between the Trump administration and California over sanctuary cities. The President is blasting a federal judge's decision to block its executive order which would strip funding to sanctuary cities. President Trump calls the ruling ridiculous and vows to fight it all the way to the highest court in the land.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you surprised by the Ninth Circuit ruling?

PRES. DONALD TRUMP (R), UNITED STATES: I am never surprised by the Ninth Circuit ruling.

(LAUGHTER)

As I said, we will see them in the Supreme Court.

GUILFOYLE: The White House also slams the ruling in a statement saying, cities like San Francisco which harbor criminal illegals, quote, "have the blood of dead Americans on their hand." Their city attorney disagrees.

DENNIS HERRERA, CITY ATTORNEY OF SAN FRANCISCO: I think it's outrageous. Unfortunately, the President and the Attorney General have sought to justify their executive order by politicizing tragic deaths of individuals for political gain. Instead of focusing on the value that sanctuary cities give to promoting cooperation between law enforcement and communities, to actually keep communities and streets safer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Okay. That's City Attorney Dennis Herrera who I might add was city attorney when I was the First Lady of San Francisco. He has been in office quite a long time. Greg, you are a bay area boy. What do you think about this issue that is erupting?

GUTFELD: I am okay with your sanctuary city if you will be okay with mine. Who is to say that your illegality is somehow acceptable but like, let's say I want to do a certain kind of substance in public? Why can't I do that? Or maybe I don't want to pay taxes? Why is there not a sanctuary city that allows me to go to that city and be immune from prosecution? There is a complete hypocrisy with this. There's only certain laws that they're okay with breaking. And and -- and I've said this before, this actually discriminates against citizen felons. It's like, what about people who are citizens who break the law? Somehow they are more punished but if you are illegal, there's sanctuary city, come here.

PERINO: No sanctuary for you.

GUTFELD: No sanctuary for you.

PERINO: Well, I find your empathy for these legal criminals to be quite touching. My goodness.

GUTFELD: It's merely a comparison, Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: The forgotten criminals of America. All right. Dana, what do you think?

PERINO: I think that the President should ask for an expedited review for the Supreme Court. It's not unprecedented, because this could take a long time if they just go through regular order. And now that Neil Gorsuch is a Supreme Court Justice, there's a full court. Instead of making the nation wait for several years possibly for this to get solved by the Supreme Court, I think this question about sanctuary cities is -- we need to clarify it now. It could be better for President Trump, better for citizens, felons or not.

GUTFELD: Thank you.

PERINO: And also, for those people who are here illegally. Let's just get some clarity and we're not going to get it and so we go to the Supreme Court and get that. Also, I would say that there has been some misreporting and exaggeration when it comes to the concerned that the federal government would cut off funds for cities. This does not include things like Medicaid. Okay. This is actually, not for anything sort of entitlements. It is actually just for grants and the like. So, I think the White House could maybe do a better job of explaining that. But the misreporting on that has fueled the concern.

GUILFOYLE: All right. What about Jesse, President Trump's concerns, about also, judge and forum shopping, Judge Orrick who was one of the bundlers, the allegation is. Yes.

WATTERS: The judge who knocked this thing down bundled I think what, $200,000 for President Obama and also bundled about six figures for Carrie.

GUILFOYLE: A hundred thousand. Yes.

WATTERS: So, there you go. And I don't see that reported by the way in the mainstream media. That's conveniently left out. And, you know, the politicians in California hired Eric Holder --

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

WATTERS: -- to fight this legal battle against the Trump policy. So, I wouldn't be surprised if behind the scenes Eric Holder is trying to tell these lawyers to file here, file there, so these appeals get circulated up until the ninth. And this is the ground zero for the Trump resistance. I take issues with what the attorney said about President Trump exploiting these victims of crime, you know, Kate Steinle, died in San Francisco. You had Jamiel Shaw died in Los Angeles.

Two sanctuary cities, I remember when Trayvon Martin, the Democrats went on the House floor, and wore hoodies. Or Mike Brown in Ferguson, Democrats did the whole hands up don't shoot things. So, I don't see anything wrong with politicians going into a tragic situation say, hey, let's create a policy so these tragedies don't happen again. And I don't understand why San Francisco wouldn't want to make sure there are no more Kate Steinles.

GUILFOYLE: Juan?

WILLIAMS: I don't know anybody who wouldn't want it.

WATTERS: And why aren't they changing their sanctuary cities policy.

WILLIAMS: This is not about that, Jesse. This is all about politicizing the idea that all these crimes are being committed by illegal immigrants when in fact the statistics, the studies even by conservative organizations do not support that idea. Instead it becomes an assault on illegal immigrant and somehow oh, they are terrible, they are the ones committing all of the crimes. What did Trump call them? Rapists and thieves.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Horrible language that should not have been allowed in the first place. And it plays out here. Now, let's talk for a second about what the judge actually said. Because he has got an argument that is not politicized. He said, you know, what, spending powers belong to the Congress, not to the executive. And you can't just have the executive saying -- and the executive Donald Trump said, we are going to use this as a weapon against people who have a difference on this policy, people who have sanctuary cities, and the judge says, well, you can't do that. You can't use funding as a weapon in the executive branch. If you want to change the law, go to the Congress.

PERINO: That was my point though that I think has been exaggerated from the Left. But it is not like your Medicaid money, your Social Security money.

WILLIAMS: No, but he's making choices about the grants --

PERINO: Grant money.

WILLIAMS: Right.

PERINO: Okay. They might have an argument there but I do think there is a distinction there that needs to be seen.

GUTFELD: Can I just once and for all, destroy Juan's constant comparison between illegal immigrant crime and immigrant or citizen crime? There's a lot of competing statistics on that. Some show on the federal level, that illegal immigrants do not commit as much crime as legal immigrants and then you look at state locals, then it's different. But the question itself is irrelevant. And it would be like saying, okay, men, vastly outdo women in terms of violent crime. That is a fact in terms of committing murder. However, that doesn't mean that you simply dismiss women who commit crimes.

GUILFOYLE: No!

GUTFELD: That is my point. So, the argument of comparing to statistics are irrelevant. You're still -- if you have the option of preventing some, prevent them. Or punish.

GUILFOYLE: Right. They have already broken the law to begin with, by being here illegally then they commit subsequent crimes and then you look at MS-13 and what's been happening with open borders and the sanctuary city has become a beacon and shining light for this kind of criminal recidivism. When we return, a big day in Washington as President Trump unveils his highly anticipated tax reform plan. Details on what it means for you, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: All right. On this busy day on our nation's capital. President Trump unveiled his long awaited tax reform plan. The proposal calls for a big cuts for businesses and other changes that could have savings for American families.

For more on this, let's bring in Chief White House correspondent John Roberts, we just love keeping you up late there at the White House, John. A big day. This is President Trump's opening bid on tax reform. What do you see?

JOHN ROBERTS, FOX NEWS CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I think it is. And particularly the 15 percent of the corporate tax rate cut because the House is saying 20 percent is as low as they want to go. And you remember Dana that on the campaign trail and particularly during the transition, President Trump would talk about the reduction of the corporate tax rate, I don't know, 15 maybe 20 percent. So, I think it is sort of shoot for the moon and the stars and to settle for moon if that's what you wanted to settle for all the time.

Interesting too the way that he's suggested the personal income tax rates, 25 and 35 percent. Not giving wealthy people as much of a tax break as he had planned to earlier. And there are some people here at the White House who actually would have liked to see taxes on the wealthiest income earners go up. But I don't think the President wanted to follow that guy.

PERINO: Well, wealthy people will probably be happy with the corporate tax reduction. We will going to take it around the table. Kimberly, we will go to you.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. What would you see was kind of the biggest kind of fallouts from the announcements today, some of the detractors -- what didn't they like the most?

ROBERTS: Well, first of all, there, you know, conservatives do not like this idea, potentially adding to the deficit by implementing a massive tax cuts. A lot of people in the House as well and the Republican side do not like the idea of the 15 percent tax rate and of course the Democrats are sticking with their mantra, Kimberly. If this is just a giveaway to the rich, then they are not going to sign onto it.

It would appear that the President has made adjustments to sort of wait this in favor of lower income earners. One of his proposals is that for lower income earners, the first $24,000 in income for a couple would not be taxed at all. And then there are some things to come through negotiations as well in terms of child care tax credit, that sort of thing. So, the President making sure here that middle and lower income earners do get their share of the tax cuts here but still I think the Democrats will say, well, you are giving four points to rich people they don't need it.

PERINO: Juan Williams?

WILLIAMS: Well, I mean, it really does open and him up to that chart that this was, by Goldman Sachs, for Goldman Sachs type people. I mean, it seems to me that you have to rely on the assumption that somehow because you have tax cuts, there is going to be tremendous growth in the economy and that will take care of the fact that he doesn't have any compensation in terms of new revenue sources. Is that a flawed analysis?

ROBERTS: No, I think that is an analysis, Juan, that says spot on, as you're analysis always is, and that's one of the reasons why. So many conservatives in Congress have got a problem with this. They don't want to see this blow a hole in the deficit and ultimately the debt. One of the things that the White House would like to do is make this revenue neutral over 10 years because if you can do that, then you can permanently write these tax regulations into law.

But like Dana will remember, with the Bush tax cuts, they were not revenue neutral or deficit neutral and therefore they sunset it after 10 years. I think the president would like to put his stamp on tax reform. First time something like this has been done in the generation by putting something out there that could become permanent after 10 years, Juan.

DANA PERINO, "The Five" HOST, FOX NEWS: OK, Jesse Watters.

JESSE WATTERS, "The Five" HOST, FOX NEWS: You just touched on this earlier, John. It seems like the tax cut proposals really tailored to middle income and lower income voters and families. When I saw the initial brackets come out and the top rate only came down from 39 to 35. I'm thinking, my god, that is not very big at all.

This guy was promising enormous tax cuts. That may not deliver the boom that the economy would necessarily result in but it looks like this is more tailor-made for voters in order to be re-elected with the 24 percent nontaxable income for families, you know, the death tax being eliminated for small business, is there political consideration behind its reductions?

ROBERTS: No, Jesse. There's never a political consideration on anything that happens at the White House

(LAUGHTER)

PERINO: It's a great question though.

ROBERTS: What are you talking about? Absolutely, there is a huge political consideration here. And this is really, I mean, there are tax breaks for income earners, individual income earners. There's no question about that but this really is geared toward corporations because corporate taxes have not come down in decades. We've had individual tax rates come down.

So the idea that he wants to cut business taxes from 35 to 15 percent, maybe compromise a 20, is a huge thing that hasn't been done in a long, long time Jesse. So, really, this is trying to spur the economy by helping businesses grow and the White House has also said that smaller businesses as well will get the same tax breaks as corporations.

So, you've got a two-track tax reform plan here. You got one on the business side, one on the personal side with an indication that, you know, hey, we're going to give more than people thought we were to middle and lower income earners. And don't forget on the high end, his initial tax rate that he was proposing a year ago, just 25 percent for the highest bracket. So he's come up ten points for that.

WATTERS: Yes, that's what I was really hoping for.

PERINO: OK, Gutfeld.

GREG GUTFELD, "The Five" HOST, FOX NEWS: Alright John, let me -- indulge me for a second. I want to read a letter from Janet. Janet wrote to me, she said, "Hi, Greg. This plan stinks for the 40 percent of Americans who earn between $38,000 and $90,000 a year and already in the 25 percent bracket. It will actually increase our tax burden as they take away the deductions for medical, dental, required employment, education, uniform, shoes, equipment, not to mention mileage for many." That leads me to my next question that combines two ideas, John, if you'll indulge me please.

Consider the logic of a tax cut. It stimulates the economy, puts more money in your pocket which you spend. So, if we have people in the White House who believe that debt really doesn't matter and we collect let's say $1.6 trillion in taxes a year, if we declare 2018 a tax holiday for everybody, nobody pays a dime of taxes, all we do is we add $1.6 trillion to the debt. We don't care because it's not like we see it and we get to benefit from this $1.6 trillion added to the debt. And imagine the spending into the economy and the investing that will grow this economy, John, what do you make of that?

(LAUGHTER)

ROBERTS: There is a lot of math in there and that really was my strong point.

GUTFELD: What's the point? Why not just have a tax holiday for a year? Why not add that to the debt, because we don't care?

ROBERTS: Because --

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, "The Five" HOST, FOX NEWS: That's a UC Berkeley education for you.

ROBERTS: -- by implementing -- there's a Berkeley education -- because by implementing a tax holiday, you don't rewrite the laws, you don't reform tax. You never really get anything done on the scoreboard. You put a lot of money into people's pockets for a short period of time. This president's goal is to put money into people's pockets for a long period of time, maybe permanently. So, much as I applaud your tax holiday and I'll be happy to sign on to that, I don't think it's going to be --

GUTFELD: Giuliani used to do it in New York. Remember, he would do the a tax Tuesday or tax free Tuesday.

ROBERTS: Yes. He would do that retail tax holiday --

GUTFELD: Exactly.

ROBERTS: And that worked out well for people who were buying clothes.

GUILFOYLE: Oh my goodness.

GUTFELD: I'm not crazy.

PERINO: Alright, John, tomorrow night, same time, same place, but maybe we'll talk about health care because apparently everything looks bad. Better than Republican?

ROBERTS: Yes, just before I close out, I was talking about a senior administration official just before I came on. There may actually be a vote in the house tomorrow on setting the rules for debate on the health care plan so the White House hasn't completely given up on the idea that they could get a vote on that this week.

PERINO: Alright.

ROBERTS: If they don't get a vote this week, certainly next week.

PERINO: Breaking news alert at the end of the block. Thank you.

GUILFOYLE: Well done John.

PERINO: Alright, directly ahead, even liberals are calling for former President Barack Obama --their calling him a hypocrite. We're going to tell you why, when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WATTERS: Throughput his presidency, Barack Obama spoke a distinctly anti- Wall Street tone, often sounding the alarm over growing income inequality in America.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I did not run for office to be helping up a bunch of, you know, fat cat bankers on Wall Street.

We're not trying to push financial reform because we begrudged success that's fairly earned. I mean I do think at a certain point you've made enough money.

STEVE KROFT, JOURNALIST: You're not going to Wall Street, make a lot of money?

OBAMA: I'm not going to Wall Street.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: Not going to Wall Street? Fox News today confirmed that President Obama will receive $400,000 for giving a speech to, you guessed it, Wall Street. The former president is set to speak in September at the investment forum Cantor Fitzgerald Conference on Healthcare.

A spokesman for Obama defended the big payday noting to Fox News that the former president successfully passed Wall Street despite raising more money from the big banks in 2008 than any presidential candidate in history. Greg, I really don't care that Obama is making money on Wall Street. It's just the hypocrisy were he said on tape that's not what he was going to do.

GUTFELD: But that's the nature of life. Free-markets and politics together create hypocrites because you can't sustain a limited free economic mind as a politician forever. Sooner or later you want to make money. And by the way, he's not the only hypocrite. Remember President Trump said he was going to drain the swamp and the swamp he drained was Goldman Sachs. We got a lot of Goldman Sachs.

Look, I'm a free market guy. Whatever the free market will bear, get what you can. If you can get $400,000, take it.

GUILFOYLE: All right, all right, all right, mourning gecko --

GUTFELD: Yes, but I mean, why do I care what he makes?

WATTERS: He can do whatever he wants, right? But it's just the hypocrisy. And you know --

PERINO: But that's not what he was meaning. In the Oval Office interview, I think what Steve Kroft meant is you're not going to Wall Street meaning you're not going to go work for some big hedge fund or venture fund for a Wall Street firm. And that's what he was referring to. Of course he was going to give speeches and they have announced this before. I'm just saying the guy is going to be rich --

GUTFELD: No matter what.

PERINO: For the rest of his life.

PERINIO: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: Richie Rich.

PERINO: And he spent most of his life -- his most productive years, like your most productive -- in your most productive years now, he did those in public service. So now he's going to go and see what the market will pay him to give a speech.

WATTERS: How much money is too much money, Juan? Because he said that I think it was speech in a while back, you know, these guys don't need that much money. How much is too much? He just signed a $16 million book deal, then this big speech, you know. How much money does he need Juan?

GUIFOYLE: Wow.

WILLIAMS: I don't know how much he needs. I mean, I think Greg's point -- Dana's point is well taken. That's what the market is offering him. So I can't -- I get paid speeches. I'm not going to say to the guy, you know what, you shouldn't take the money. What's interesting to me is when you look back at, I remember in the last campaign, Hillary Clinton speech just to Wall Street became a big item because --

PERINO: Yes, will there be transcripts?

WILLIAMS: Yes. Why don't you release them, Hillary? And then guess what, when Hillary's speeches came out she said, hey, you know what, the little guy thinks the system is rigged and this business about too big to fill is a bunch of hockey pucks. They don't like it and they think it's wrong. So, guess what, just the association now is somehow poisonous and I can't believe this comes from the right. The right was always defending Wall Street.

WATTERS: I didn't say it. I said go make some money.

GUILFOYLE: I'm totally fine with --

WATTERS: Should we ask Elizabeth Warren what she thinks or Bernie Sanders about these big speeches?

GUILFOYLE: Yes, that would actually be pretty interesting, although they've been pretty good this week, why, because they were supporting Ann Coulter. She'll have to be able to go to Berkeley and speak good there, right. Be given a happy Santa (ph) for that. But in terms of President Obama, I mean, look, he deserves it. You know, he was president of the United States. Let him go out there. Whatever people wants to pay him, he certainly has a lot of friends in the banking industry and other companies that were paying him a fine fee, and also for the former first lady.

PERINO: And also wait until that you find out that Michelle Obama could actually probably get more.

WATTERS: I don't think the president would mind, you know, more money in the joint account. Up next, you'll never guess who Ted Cruz wants to pay for the wall. Find out next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: The debate over who will pay for President Trump's border wall heating up. Ted Cruz now jumping in the mix. The senator has a novel idea. He has introduced the bill aimed at gaining assets from seized -- seized from drug lords like Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman to help fund the project.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: His fortune is estimated at $14 billion. Now, it so happens coincidentally that the estimated cost to the wall is between $14 billion and $20 billion. So the legislation I filed yesterday was very simple. It said any proceeds that are forfeited from El Chapo or from other drug lords shall be spent building the wall and securing the border.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: What do you think Greg?

GUTFELD: Why do you ask me? I think that we should just make him Supreme Court justice so we don't have to listen him tell us things that he heard from somebody else. I don't think that's an original idea. I think I heard it before from some guy. What was his name? By the way --

GUILFOYLE: Wow, what a hater.

GUTFELD: It's an interesting idea. No, people use the wall now as an exercise in cleverness. OK, everybody's got an idea. Oh, I know how to pay for it. I know how to do this. Oh, let's charge, let's put solar panels. No, that an idea?

WILLIAMS: Well, they're desperate. They want to save Donald Trump from his own rhetoric, right.

GUTFELD: Wait a minute. Juan, Juan. Wait a second.

GUILFOYLE: Alright.

GUTFELD: We do have a wall, it's Trump. Metaphorically speaking since he's been elected we've seen border crossings dropped dramatically simply because there is a new bartender at the bar not giving away free drinks.

WILLIAMS: That's true.

GUILFOYLE: Greg is right and that went all the way to (INAUDIBLE). OK, so by law, any of these forfeitures already designated to the Justice Department, right? So they're asked a forfeiture program so then Congress needs to enact the law to like redirect the el looto from El Chapo.

(LAUGHTER)

PERINO: Seems right-o.

GUILFOYLE: Thank you, darling.

WILLIAMS: I'll see. Yes, darling.

PERINO: Well, I'm saying that she's right. I guess a nice idea in theory and if you put El Chapo's face next to this it's like, oh, Sensenbrenner, the congressman who filed a similar bill in February. So, you put El Chapo (ph) on it and it's a good P.R. story. I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea but I do think that because the money goes to the general treasury, you have to figure out a way to do it.

GUTFELD: No one ever takes the next step to figure out what to do.

GUILFOYLE: OK, but why don't you get on?

GUTFELD: They have this clever idea.

PERINO: They're just spitballing over -- they're just spitballing.

GUTFELD: They have a clever idea.

WATTERS: There are actually some real legitimate ideas you could do. When you do renegotiate NAFTA, you can raise proceeds that way through the trade and balance. Visa fees you can raise those. You can do a border crossing fee when you have to drive your car across, pay a little tax there. These visa fees, you do an import tax on Mexican goods. So there are legitimate ways to do it.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: A tariff means that we pay.

WATTERS: Well, we call it an import tax so we don't say it's a tariff. GUTFELD: But I don't want a tariff.

WATTERS: What are you buying so much from Mexico, Corona?

GUTFELD: No, but I mean -- the point is, a tariff hurts Americans. It doesn't harm Mexico.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: We have a law now --

PERINO: He has a really good point.

GUILFOYLE: Alright, the chattering class over the, by that I mean the boys. The problems is a lot of his money is in foreign banks or is in Mexico so it will ultimately take a very long time. Juan, you got to pass that (INAUDIBLE) to redirect it and get it over here. So I think we should just ask China to pay for the wall.

(LAUGHTER)

WILLIAMS: I think you're trying to burst my bubble. I mean, oh, we're just having fun, Kimberly. We just think it'd be fun because this really a failed idea.

GUILFOYLE: But this is -- and great for Cruz, right, because he's up for re-election next year. This plays well with his base and you get Chapo's face and like (INAUDIBLE) pays for it.

WILLIAMS: That's true.

GUTFELD: But Juan, you got to look at it -- you got to look at a lot of the stuff that Trump does. He's like -- it's like expecting a caterpillar to fly. It's not happening yet. He's in the beginning stages.

GUILFOYLE: The man was a unicorn cub --

GUTFELD: No, I think he's in the beginning stages of presenting some very interesting and dramatic ideas that will take time. And so the idea of saying where is it? Where is it? Where is it? Maybe it is coming but you have to give it time. That's what the 100 day marker is a silly, arbitrary figure. It's like I said, eating a green banana.

WILLIAMS: Yes, but didn't he say he was going to do it all in 100 days? That's what he said.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: I say a lot of things Juan.

WILLIAMS: You know what, Donald Trump, we're giving you a chance, buddy. You get four more years. One more thing.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, Juan. Wow!

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: Time for "One More Thing" Jesse.

WATTERS: Crazy play at plate at the Blue Jays game the other day. Check this out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ball gets away. Racing to the plate. The throw is... Not in time. And incredible play by Coghlan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Do it again.

WILLIAMS: That was unbelievable.

WATTERS: Look at this guy leaps over Molina, right there.

WILLIAMS: But then he touches Molina.

PERINO: Wow.

WATTERS: Did he touch him, well the ump called in that safe. So he's safe. Juan.

WILLIAM: But I'm saying he touched him with his leg.

WATTERS: I don't know.

WILLAIMS: But still an incredible feat.

WATTERS: Clean.

WILLIAMS: That is beautiful.

GUILFOYLE: I think that's so hot.

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

GUILFOYLE: No, I love it. I used to steal home all the time.

(LAUGHTER)

GUILFOYLE: And if you go in, like hard enough, they dropped the ball. Perfect.

WATTERS: I'm glad he didn't run him over. Also, I'm going to be taking a vacation with my family so I'm not going to be here tomorrow. I'll be back on Monday so try not to miss me too much.

GUILFOYLE: Saturday also.

WATTERS: Yes, and KG is going to be hosting "Watters World" on Saturday.

GUILFOYLE: It's "KG's World."

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Alright, camera, look at me. Greg's Disturbing News. Now, I must warn you if there are children or elderly with weak hearts, please leave the room because what I'm about to show you is extremely shocking. What we have here is a baby two-toed sloth, just born at the Memphis Zoo. Her name is Lua, a female.

I know this is shocking. Her parents are Marilyn and Sparky. Who knew if they had such normal names? Anyway, she's being hand raised and she likes to cling to a stuffed elephant because she doesn't, I guess, she doesn't have any friends. Interesting fact, Dana, much like you --

GUILFOYLE: Oh my gosh.

GUTFELD: Theyre very small but they spend most of their lives upside down. They hang like from trees.

PERINO: I do that.

GUTFELD: Yes, because you do a lot of Pilates.

PERINO: I love Pilates and that's how you finish the class at Pilates routine, by hanging upside down.

GUTFELD: I wouldn't know. I just do SoulCycle.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: In a bodysuit.

GUILFOYLE: No you don't.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Alright, Juan is next.

WILLIAMS: So guess what, I was in the land of sloths last week, Gregory. I went to Panama. I vacationed --

GUTFELD: There are sloths?

WILLIAMS: Oh, a sloth hanging from the jungle tree.

GUTFELD: I didn't know.

WILLIAMS: Yes, there I am with my wife and there I am with some cousins, you know, in Panama City before we flew over to Bocas del Toro. There is my grandson, seven years old holding bugs. Let me tell you, bugs and sloths where the theme of being in the jungle. There's a sleepy little girl and her granddad.

GUTFELD: I haven't seen a jungle yet Juan.

WILLIAMS: Oh, you know what. Now, there's a big bug. That's a rhinoceros beetle. I took a picture just for you Greg. And there's my daughter.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Alright, we have 90 seconds. Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: I just would not -- I can't go there, I don't think.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: OK, so let's do this and very fun, fantastic news of American royalty. Happy Birthday to the first lady of the United States of America, Melania Trump. Look at that fabulous photo. I love it.

PERINO: April 26th is a good day for a birthday.

GUILFOYLE: Yes it is. So she was there celebrating her 47 birthday, 47 years young in Washington today with her husbad, President Trump. Happy birthday to you.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Dana.

PERINO: OK, you know I love books.

GUTFELD: You do love books.

PERINO: Check this out, there's an independent bookstore in France, it's named Librairie Mollat. I guess I'm saying that right. It's found a very clever way to engage on social media. Basically they take people who are working in the store and then they put them with the covers of the book. And this is an independent store started in 1896 and they're trying to figure out a way in order to keep up with all the new ways to keep people coming into the store. And I just love this. I thought that they were a perfect match up when they do it. Look at that.

GUTFELD: I question the reasoning of doing "One More Thing" on a French bookstore. No one is going to go there, Dana.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh. You are so mean.

GUTFELD: No, but I'm just saying --

PERINO: How about, why don't we celebrate independent bookstores and then a bookstore in Nashville like Parnassus, that I love, they could do something similar.

GUILFOYLE: She's trying to support small business.

GUTFELD: Then say that instead of showing obscure French bookstore.

GUILFOYLE: And you showed a two-toed sloth.

GUTFELD: Well, people like sloths. They have sticky hands. They do. They're very sticky hands.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: That's their defense system. Alright, set your DVR so you never miss an episode on "The Five." We'll see you back here tomorrow at 9 p.m. Eastern. "Hannity" is next.

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