This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," September 22, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MEGYN KELLY, HOST: Breaking tonight, 46 days out from the presidential election and America is once again watching riots in a major city. Over the hot button issues of race, policing and the search for truth and justice.
Welcome to "The Kelly File," everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly. Right now, there is a State of Emergency in Charlotte, North Carolina following days of protest over the officer involved shooting of Keith Lamont Scott. National Guard and police have fanned out across the city after dozens of police and protesters were injured and one man was killed in a wild series of showdowns we saw together last night. Just a short time ago, Mr. Scott's family viewed video of the Tuesday shooting and their attorney released a statement saying to them, it is impossible to discern what if anything he was holding in his hands, gun or otherwise.
They are now calling on police to release the videotapes. His case is one of two that are dominating the headlines this week. The other involves the shooting death of Terence Crutcher in Tulsa, Oklahoma. He was shot and killed as he approached his SUV with his arms raised. Earlier today the female officer who fired that fatal shot was charged with first degree manslaughter, a felony. At this hour there is one thing we know for certain. We do not have all of the facts in either case.
Tonight the pressure is building again between an angry crowd and a tense police department. In moments, we'll speak with the Charlotte-Mecklenburg police chief Kerr Putney who is with us live. We'll also be joined by Dr. Ben Carson.
But we begin tonight with Mike Tobin reporting live from Charlotte. Mike?
MIKE TOBIN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: And Megyn, what you're watching right now is a little bit of a commotion just because there is a car that was trying to make it out through the center of the crowd. Frankly, it looks like the demonstrators were pretty cooperative and trying to clear a path for that car to get out. Now, one of the things I guess start tonight is a new sign, it says, Justice for Justin. The Justin Carr as you know was the individual who was injured during the demonstrations last night. He died of his injuries today.
The version of the people here on the street is that he was hit by a rubber bullet fired by the police. That resulted in his death. I've had a number of people tell me that I have video of it. I've asked them to show me the video, no one has shown me the video of it. The police version is very different. Police say that he was shot by a civilian during the course of the demonstrations ultimately dying of his injuries. But he has become one of the causes about which they're protesting now.
I ballpark the demonstration crowd right now at about 300. It appears that the police are trying intentionally not to have friction with these demonstrators as they go through the center of the town as long as nothing starts getting busted up. We did see a confrontation with police in riot gear but it wasn't a situation where the riot cops came after the demonstrators. It was a situation where the demonstrators found where they were staging and went up to the riot cops and started the confrontation. Ultimately, it was diffused by a number of community and religious leaders who put a line in between the demonstrators and the police.
And the police ultimately just walked off without incident and took a break inside one of the hotels. So, so we're watching the demonstrations. They're going through the center of town here now. Part of the town is called uptown. Some of the area where there was trouble last night. Thus far a lot of marching, a lot of chanting. I haven't seen much trouble. And police, it appears, are intentionally trying to keep their presence minimal for the moment -- Megyn.
KELLY: Mike Tobin, thank you. As we mentioned a moment ago, the Scott family viewed the police video of the shooting earlier this evening. Immediately after that family lawyers issued a statement that reads in part, quote, "After watching the videos, the family again has more questions than answers. When told by police to exit his vehicle, Mr. Scott did so in a very calm nonaggressive manner." The statement goes on to say, "It is impossible to discern from the videos what if anything Mr. Scott is holding in his hands. When he was shot and killed, Mr. Scott's hands were by his side and he was slowly walking backwards."
Joining us now, Charlotte Mecklenburg Police Chief Kerr Putney. Chief, thanks for being with us again tonight on a busy night for you. I just want to get your reaction to that statement saying that the video does show that he had his hands down to his sides and that he was walking backwards when he was shot. Can you confirm that?
CHIEF KERR PUTNEY, CHARLOTTE MECKLENBURG POLICE: What I can tell you is that the video is, as I've said before, not the most definitive piece of evidence we would have hoped for. As I've said, you can't really see what's in his hands. And as I said before, you cannot see him making a gesture like pointing the gun which would be much more definitive. But the officer perceived based on everything that I've said before, his failure to comply with commands, failure to drop the women and then turning the face of the officers as an imminent threat and that is what caused everything else to transpire.
KELLY: I want to underscore to the viewers since race has played a role in fact or at least in perception in many of these cases, that the officer who shot Mr. Scott was also African-American. Do you have any doubt in your mind, Chief, that this officer believed this man had a gun and do you have any doubt that in fact Mr. Scott did have a gun on him at the time?
PUTNEY: No. There's a lot of other evidence that I can't speak to. The State Bureau of Investigations, an independent investigative body has taken over. I can't really speak to the investigation much further. But there's a lot of other evidence that gives us a great deal of support and comfort. The version that you heard from us before is supported by the evidence and all of the statements that we were able to gather. And the totality of the circumstances led us to believe that that version is still very much accurate.
KELLY: Did you -- I know you said you recovered a gun from the scene. Have you checked for fingerprints on it belonging to Mr. Scott and do you know whether it was registered to him?
PUTNEY: As much as I would love to answer that question, that question is very relevant. But I can't really disclose that type of evidence anymore, although I would love to because I'm not lead on that investigation any longer.
KELLY: Okay. The release of the videos, that's become controversial. You've seen them. You've shown them to the family. You say you're not going to release them despite a promise of transparency because you don't think you should display a victim's worst day for public consumption. But the family in this case who speaks for the victim now say they want it released. So will you reconsider?
PUTNEY: Well, here's what I can tell you. Ultimately that is a factor in whether or not we release. But ultimately right now, I don't have any authority to do so. It's in the hands of the State Bureau of Investigations. They're going to do an independent investigation in there. And I'll tell you, looking at it from all angles, I think that is probably the better option right now. And we'll see what they find based on their examinations of the facts.
KELLY: Tonight, there's a greater law enforcement presence in Charlotte. We saw what we were obviously riots last night. In one case they were trying to throw a member of a press into a burning trash can. The NAACP has come out and said, the National Guard presence is excessive and it's intimidating and it's unnecessary. Your response.
PUTNEY: Everybody is entitled to their opinion. But in this I think I have the expertise to consider and weigh all options and make the choices that best provide the safety of the city that we need. And that is a process that I go through when I make decisions. And I came to the decision based on my best judgment and I stand by it.
KELLY: You know, the family lawyer, I mean, Mr. Scott's family lawyer, came out and said regardless of how this plays out at the end of the day, many feel that minorities in encounters with police are guilty until proven innocent. And so they see this as -- whether this Officer Vincent was at fault or not, they see it as a problem that is plaguing the United States, that cops, whether they're black, whether they're white, when they see a black man, they have a reaction that is racist. In your experience sir, is there any truth to that?
PUTNEY: I can tell you, I don't have time to really delve into it like I would love to. But from a personal perspective, I can understand that perspectives. I'm going to be quite frank with you. There are times in my past that I had a similar perspectives. I was not somebody who always liked police officers. I was on the other end of the spectrum. Didn't care for them very much at all. But now that I've become one -- and I'm telling you, we're always looking for good people.
So, anybody who really wants to contribute to the solution can join us. We're always looking to diversify ranks. But what I can tell you is my experience of taking an oath and serving something greater than myself and making a sacrifice like our heroes out here are making tonight, it gave me a different perspectives. It gave me a balanced perspective. That's a perspective I'm using as I make decisions that I think are going to enhance the safety of our citizens and the community members here in Charlotte.
KELLY: Lucky to have you down there, Chief. I have to let ask you one question before I let you go. Which is, this man who was shot in the streets last night, Justin Carr, some chanting Justice for Justin tonight, some of the protesters claim he was hit by a police officer's rubber bullet, and that's how he died. You dispute that?
PUTNEY: Yes. The evidence disputes that. And there will be more evidence forthcoming here in the near future. Again, I go into everything with an open mind. I'm an eternal skeptic. And I think -- the position I am in. But what I can tell you, we have a lot compelling of evidence that disputes that. And I'm not going to give opinion, I'm not going to give perception. I'm going to deal with the facts and truth and the facts and truth lead me to believe that the version that we gave initially is indeed the actual truth and fact-based version and we're getting more and more evidence to support that.
KELLY: And we actually have an eyewitness to the shooting coming up right here later in the show. Chief, all of the best to you. Good luck tonight.
PUTNEY: Thank you, ma'am. Sorry, I couldn't finish the interview yesterday. And true to my word I wanted to come back and do so. So, thank you.
KELLY: You're a gentleman for even saying that. You're certainly have had your hands full and it's good of you to give us any time at all last night or tonight. All the best to you.
PUTNEY: Well, if you're going to pay me a compliment, I'm going to take that and leave. Thank you so much.
KELLY: All right. To be continued. And now a closer look at the facts as we know them tonight. In the two cases rocking the country, the deadly police shootings of Keith Lamont Scott in Charlotte, North Carolina.
And Terence Crutcher in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Trace Gallagher is live in our West Coast Bureau tonight with what we know. Trace?
TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, in the shooting death of 40-year-old Terence Crutcher, there is video from the officer's dash cam as well as helicopter video. Tulsa police were on the call of an abandoned car on the road. The video shows four officers following Terence Crutcher as he walks toward his vehicle with his hands up.
At the same time, a male voice can be heard in the helicopter saying, quote, "That looks like a bad dude too. He might be on something." Seconds, later Crutcher is seen falling to the ground. The responding officers say, Crutcher was not listening to orders. And at first, they used a stun gun, then he was shot and killed by Officer Betty Shelby. Shelby's attorney says, she fired when Crutcher started reaching into the window of his SUV but the chief said this. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to tell you right here now, there was no gun on the suspect or in the suspect's vehicle.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER: Betty Shelby has now been charged with first degree manslaughter. She could be facing four years in prison. And in a clear reference to the male voice in the helicopter, Crutcher's family said, quote, "That big bad dude was enrolled in Tulsa Community College. That big bad dude loved God." In the case of Keith Lamont, Scott's video has not been released, Scott's family says, he was sitting in his car reading a book waiting for his kids to get off of the bus. Police were in the area searching for a suspect. Scott was not that suspect.
But the police chief as you heard says, Scott exited the vehicle with a firearm and then got back into the car and when officers approached they gave loud and clear instructions also heard by witnesses to drop the weapon. Inside the Chief says, Keith Lamont Scott got back out of the car, weapon in hand. He was shot and killed by Officer Brentley Vinson, an African-American with two years on the force. The Chief says, they didn't find the book but they did find a gun. As to whether Keith Scott was pointing that gun, the Chief said that it's unclear. The Scott family as you said has also viewed the video and says it is inconclusive -- Megyn.
KELLY: Trace, thank you.
Joining us now, former Republican presidential candidate Dr. Ben Carson. Dr. Carson, good to see you.
DR. BEN CARSON, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You too.
KELLY: So, as you see the race relations once again appear to reach a fever pitch in this country, whenever we see an incident like this which actually is statistically very rare but gets a lot of attention from the media, what are your thoughts?
CARSON: Well, you know, obviously it's very concerning because if this continues to go in the wrong way, it could lead to some very chaotic situations in our country. And I'm very concerned about that. And you'll notice a pattern here. Usually you have some protests the first night after something like this, by the time the second night rolls around, it becomes violent because by that time the sharks have smelled the blood in the water and the outside agitators have had an opportunity to get there.
CARSON: And the third night it could be even worse unless you have brought in the adequate backup. This is a big problem. But, you know, there are things that can be learned. You know, for instance in the case in North Carolina, why not release the tape. Maybe it's not definitive. But why have everybody speculating and attributing the worst possible motives to everyone.
KELLY: Dr. Carson, I just want to stand you by. Because what we're seeing here are the protesters confronting some National Guardsmen here on the steps of -- what facility, I cannot tell you. But we saw this last night with respect to law enforcement where they got in the face of the cops.
Steve Harrigan is there. Ben Carson, stand by. Stay with me. Steve Harrigan, what are we seeing?
STEVE HARRIGAN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: We're seeing a crowd of about 400 converge on the courthouse here trying to make their way up the stairs. A line of police quickly forming at the doors to try and block them. We have not seen any violence yet but we have seen flash points like this where things could get out of hand. Crowd has been chanting, "No Justice, No Peace." But so far the large show of force by police has kept things quiet.
We've seen bike police, National Guard armed in armored Humvees and we've seen really a lot of protesters get right in the face of police. But also groups trying to get between the protesters and the police. A lot of clergy men, a lot of community activists trying to prevent anything from happening. It looks like this flash point has been diffused for now -- Megyn.
KELLY: Steve, thank you. Dr. Carson back to you for a moment. You see, you know, it's pretty remarkable. Because this at its core is about race and race relations in the country. And you see the African-American guardsmen standing there on the courthouse steps as African-American protesters express their outrage over another death of other an African- American person on the streets.
And as somebody who grow up in a rough and tumble neighborhood and had a difficult upbringing and got himself out to become one of the most famous neurosurgeons, pediatric neurosurgeons in the world, what message do you have for those who say, I'm afraid for my life because I have black skin.
CARSON: Okay. Well you know, the level of frustration is obviously, extremely high. It was high when I was a kid also and people ascribed all kinds of bad attributes to those who they felt were the oppressors. And in many cases, those attributes were appropriately ascribed. But, you know, I was taught -- my mother taught me, my religion taught me that the person who has the most to do with what happens to you is you. It's not somebody else. And you don't have to concentrate on them and allow them to control your life.
You can do it much better if you control your own life. So that's the message that I would give to people. And that doesn't mean that I don't understand the frustration. But the problem is, if you are always acting out of frustration, do you really think that that's going to solve the problem? I mean what are the choices that the police have? They can either come down with an even heavier hand, that's not going to be good, or they can have such a light hand that, you know, criminals run wild.
That's not going to be good either. So let's think about this rationally. What do we want to do? Started getting together and talking and getting to know each other and coming up with rational solutions, not destroying property and destroying other people's lives. That's not going to help. There's no way that that's going to lead to an appropriate solution. So there's problems on both sides. Both sides have to be able to try to put themselves in the position of the other side and think about it from their point of view.
And then this other thing I need to say, the police, I believe, should be taught nonlethal methods. For instance, in that case in Oklahoma, I know they tried to stun gun. Maybe that didn't work. But you need to know what the next level of nonlethal forces before he even reaches the car. Why not teach them these things.
KELLY: Uh-hm. Dr. Carson, good to see you. Thank you.
CARSON: Me too, Megyn. Thank you.
KELLY: In that case in Oklahoma, that female officer was with a male officer who used his stun gun. She used her actual gun and killed the man. And now is facing felony, first degree manslaughter charges as a result.
Well, as we've mentioned a moment ago, there's another growing controversy tonight over exactly who shot a protester at last night's protest in Charlotte, North Carolina. The man who was shot is now dead. The marchers blame the police. Police blame one of the marchers and we found someone who was there. He will join us next to tell us exactly what he saw. Don't go away.
KELLY: Breaking tonight, we're just getting local news reports that the Charlotte mayor has ordered a midnight curfew. And we are also hearing new questions over whether police are actually behind the shooting of that protester in Charlotte last night. Shortly before 9:00 p.m., we were watching as police in riot gear lined up to face protesters, a loud pop could be heard and when our crew rounded the corner, that's when they saw two men sprawled on the concrete, one of them with a massive head wound. Watch.
Police are saying a civilian did the shooting. Some people in the community however are blaming the cops. In moments we'll speak with someone who was there and saw it happen.
Trace Gallagher is live in our West Coast Newsroom first, however. Trace?
GALLAGHER: Megyn, at the scene of the shooting, Charlotte native Jamie Tyson told the New York Daily News that he saw a man collapse after cops fired a barrage of rubber bullets into the crowd quoting, "All hell broke loose when they started shooting and then I saw him fall. I heard rubber bullets being shot but no gun shots." When Tyson came home, a while later, he posted his account on Facebook. But instead of bullets into the crowd, Tyson writes, quoting, "I saw a police shoot that man almost point blank with my own eyes. Stop the rhetoric. Police shot him close range in the side of the head with a rubber bullet."
Witness Todd Zimmerman wrote on Facebook that his city is lying about what happened. That it wasn't civilian on civilian. Quote, "I was there when CMPD shot a protester in the head tonight." Karen Meyer says, quote, "I watched a man died tonight with my own two eyes. It was not by a civilian. I don't care what CNN tells you. I was right (blank) there. And Minister Steve Knight says, quote, "I saw the man go down on the pavement. It was an ambush. The victim was shot while he stood between two ministers and we believe he was shot by the police." The police chief is now reviewing the video and interviewing the officers who were there. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PUTNEY: As I said before, guys, we're here to seek the truth so we're investigating that to find the truth, the absolute truth as best the evidence can show us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER: The victim was put on life support last night and as you said, Megyn, he died late today -- Megyn.
KELLY: Trace, thank you. Ryan James was an eyewitness to all of this himself. James was apparently staring down the barrel of a pistol at one point. He joins me mow.
Ryan, thank you for being here. So, you were in the middle of the protesters. Did you actually witness the shooting?
RYAN JAMES, SAYS HE SAW NC PROTESTER SHOOT PROTESTER: I didn't see the moment that the shot was fired but I heard, it was a single shot. I immediately turned my head in the direction of the shot and saw a man with a raised pistol turn and run. I didn't get a good look at him because he turned as I turned to look. But I saw someone with a pistol turn around and run.
KELLY: How far away from you was he?
JAMES: Maybe ten yards.
KELLY: Can you describe the man?
JAMES: He was a black man with dread locks, that's all I can say. I didn't see his face because he turned around and run right as I looked at him.
KELLY: Was at police officer?
JAMES: It was not a police officer. I know what I saw. And this was a protester on protester violence.
KELLY: Did there seem to be any reason why he chose this particular victim?
JAMES: There didn't seem to be. Obviously I can't know his motivation. But it seemed like it was indiscriminate firing into a crowd.
KELLY: Did anybody else see this man? Did you have any exchange with anybody at the time?
JAMES: No. It was -- the scene was completely chaotic. People were screaming. No one really knew what to do. No one was talking. It really was kind of anarchy down there in front of the Omni Hotel.
KELLY: So, you do not believe that the police shot this man?
JAMES: No. I saw a shooter. I saw someone with a raised gun turn around and run.
KELLY: And why were you out there? Explain that to us, Ryan. What made you go out and join the protesters?
JAMES: I was a correspondent for The Daily Beast. We got a protester right here that wants to talk.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to give Bill O'Reilly a message.
KELLY: You know what? Apologies, Ryan. Because this is your time and yet somebody wants to hijack it. We'll stand you by because we want to talk to you and not the man with a bull horn. We stand you by. Thank you for being here. And take a look at what's happening on the streets in Charlotte tonight. As again, originally we were told there would be no curfew, now we're getting word from our local reporters that the mayor may have imposed one beginning at midnight. The decision not to do it earlier was controversial given what we've seen last night. Tonight, things appear mostly peaceful.
I want to bring in our panel now. Joining me is Kevin Jackson, FOX News contributor and executive director of TheBlackSphere.net, Tezlyn Figaro is an independent political analyst and former Bernie Sanders campaign staffer. Dimitri Roberts is a former Chicago police officer and former FBI task force member.
Great to see you all. Kevin, let me start with you on this, you know, this back and forth that we're seeing among the protesters about whether the cop shot this man or whether, as our eyewitness just said, it was a civilian who shot this young man and just the willingness by so many to rush to judgment in this case and so many others.
KEVIN JACKSON, THE BLACK SPHERE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR: Well, it happened in Ferguson and it's bound to happen -- I mean, it probably happened here. And the sad part Megyn is that, you know, the narrative is been set that it's always going to be the cops' fault. And you're going to get people, I think with Trace gave his report. Here's a guy that said how it happened one way and on his Facebook page, it's completely different.
JACKSON: And it certainly reminds me of what happened in Ferguson where people were talking about, he walked up and shot that man in the head point blank and things like this. And of course it was completely, you know, turned out that it wasn't true at all. So, the sad part is that social media drives these things and political narratives do as well.
KELLY: What do you make of that, Tezlyn? Because, you know, the hands up, don't shoot mantra was a lie in Ferguson, Missouri. It was a lie but it also gave birth in part to the Black Lives Matter movement. And, you know, there needs to be accountability, you tell me, on both sides, the police who are involved in these, you know, the bad shootings, the ones that are not within policy, they need to be held to account, even when there's not a video, right? And yet on the other side, there needs to be honesty about what the facts actually show. And when initial statements that are pushed out as propaganda turn out to untrue, there has to be ownership of that as well.
TEZLYN FIGARO, INDEPENDENT POLITICAL ANALYST: Absolutely. I mean, when you looked at today, I was speaking with several protesters from Charlotte, William Johnson being one that said, this is not an issue that they're just focused on in Charlotte. the issue that's been building up year over year from talking -- two times they've talked to the police chief, trying to talk their elected officials, and Megyn, I'm actually from Oklahoma. Two years ago, you mentioned stories that never make it without the video.
I went to elected officials, democrat black elected officials like Senator Matthews about a case called Monroe Bird that no one ever heard about to ask him to get involved in social justice reform. So now, when we see the senators are more focused on being elected to office doing nothing but showing up at press conference, and now all of a sudden people are confused on why people out of southern Tulsa over the Terence Crutcher case.
I hold people that we have put in office accountable. They failed one, the officers, as well as the people of Tulsa. So, this is something that has been going on. Social media is not driving it. The media is simply putting it out and the chickens are simply come home to roost. So I ask protesters, who have you been putting in office over the last 10 years that you have asked to address these issues and they have done nothing at all.
KELLY: Yeah. Dimitri, what do you think?
DIMITRI ROBERTS, FORMER CHICAGO POLICE OFFICER: Let's focus here. Somebody is dead and regardless of how it happened at this point, there's hundreds of other people's lives that are at risk, both citizens as well as police officers. We have to unify our country and our cities now. What we can agree to is that nobody on this panel, in this country or in those communities wants to see anybody dead.
Nobody wants to see any more killing happen whether that's a police officer or that's a community member. Because at the end of the day, whether that person is wearing blue or whether they're wearing the civilian clothes that this gentleman unfortunately had to die in, we all believe the same thing (ph). And I think that's something that we can unify behind and that's something we can agree to and put forth some sensible solutions.
KELLY: Now, meantime today, there were extraordinary accusations leveled by some members of the Congressional Black Caucus about police officers in general and I want to bring those up and get your reaction. We'll do that with the panel right after this quick break. Don't go away.
KELLY: Breaking tonight, we're seeing new video of the chaos and anarchy in the streets of Charlotte from last night as we watch the streets in relatively calm conditions so far tonight. Our senior correspondent Mike Tobin is live on the ground in Charlotte. Mike?
TOBIN: And I'll show you something interesting that's happening. They stopped in front of the country jail here. And we look up to the county jail cells themselves, the inmates are now flashing their lights to recognize the fact that they see and hear the demonstrators down here. You see the demonstrators making a bunch of noise up to the inmates in the county jail.
What you don't see out here is a very large police presence. We got a handful of bike cops up in this direction and for the most part they're letting the demonstrators just get out here and march. Here's a couple of a uniformed police officer coming through but not big numbers of police. Clearly trying to minimize the friction.
The one thing I'm seeing with the crowd though is they're marching as they stop the intersections and they chant. They're getting more rowdy. I'm also picking up a lot of smell of pot and booze. So the activity is picking up throughout the night, Megyn.
KELLY: The inmates are sending a message through the jailhouse windows?
TOBIN: Yeah, that's them. If you look back up, they're still flashing their lights. So they're recognizing them down here and saying that they're part of the demonstration.
KELLY: They got a lot to worry about. They should be thinking about the felonies they committed. Mike, good to see you.
TOBIN: You got it.
KELLY: Our panel is back with us now, Kevin Jackson, Tezlyn Figaro and Dimitri Roberts, back now -- I would love to start with this, reaction from you guys to what the Congressional Black Caucus members said earlier today about race and policing. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAXINE WATERS, CONGRESSIONAL BLACK CAUCUS MEMBER: The killing of unarmed black men and women by police is a crisis. It is an emergency. It is time for the Department Of Justice to take aggressive action and put an end to what appears to be the targeting and profiling of black people today.
GREGORY MEEKS, CONGRESSIONAL BLACK CAUCUS MEMBER: We see the kind of attack that apparently happens to unarmed black men and women with no transparency.
HAKEEM JEFFRIES, CONGRESSIONAL BLACK CAUCUS MEMBER: Often police officers who take the lives of African-American men and others without justification escape accountability.
KEITH ELLISON, CONGRESSIONAL BLACK CAUCUS MEMBER: We want community to know that we are responsive, we hear your voices and we are going to do everything we can do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: And you tell me Kevin whether that misses a significant part of the story to just paint the cops as a group that goes out and targets and profiles black people.
JACKSON: That's why I call them the Congressional Black Circus, Megyn. What you're looking there -- looking at there is a group of people that have been in charge of black folks for decades. If they wanted to solve these so-called problems, they should have been solving them.
All of them are in big cities. They're run by other Democrats. They run by a lot, and in many cases, by black Democrats and now suddenly we've got a police problem and it just pops up around the country in these different trouble spots. How did it start in Ferguson, Missouri of all places if that's the case? These people are an embarrassment to black people, and one of the other panelists was alluding to it.
We vote -- many blacks vote these people in and they do nothing for blacks. And in fact, they're making these black neighborhoods much more unsafe. They're making America unsafe and they're factually wrong.
KELLY: Dimitri, your thoughts.
ROBERTS: My thoughts are simple. Let's stop having divisive language towards groups, whether that's the police or activist or the Congressional Black Caucus and let's focus on solutions. The solutions are better training for these officers. Now, I'm the only one here that's been a police officer and before I was a police I was a black man on the south side of Chicago. So let me tell you how we fix this.
We get down to the real root of the issues and that's the cultural differences between the law enforcement and the community. And when we bridge that cultural divide, we'll see a better engagement with both of our African-American communities but as well as all communities within our country.
KELLY: Tezlyn, go ahead.
FIGARO: OK look, first of all, sorry, well looks like you're rushing to judgment just like in Charlotte. I was a military police officer in the United States Air Force so you're not the only one who's on the panel that's been involved in any type of law enforcement. I've been involved and actually lived in Chicago, downtown Chicago, so very familiar. So we can talk about let's get rid of the divisive language and keep avoiding the issue over and over again and not deal with it.
And what the other panelists said, the Congressional Black Caucus is absolutely right. They're speaking to the emotion of the people and it's a joke. Just as it is a joke for Dr. Ben Carson to speak about peace when he was the same Dr. Carson that pulled a hammer on his mother, let us not forget about that.
KELLY: Oh boy.
FIGARO: So at the end of the day, the actions need to back it up on actually what they're worth (ph). The Congressional Black Caucus is a joke. President Obama telling us that we need to vote for him event though he has not earned the African-American vote this time around is a joke and all of this about let's just all hands and eat ice cream is also a joke, and I did serve my country as a police officer and I do believe in social justice reform and I do believe we need to put a lot of people out of office starting this year.
KELLY: And we will let that be the last word. Thank you for your service, both of you. All the best. We're keeping a close eye on the third night now of protests in charlotte. NFL star Benjamin Watson is here to weigh in on what we're seeing in the streets tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Whether I'm here, on the school, I'm in my car. You said, OK, a man got shot over here, right? So you basically say why would I put myself in danger.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Exactly.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right. But guess what, I could be at work, at school, in my car. I can still get shot by the police.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Raw emotion that we saw together last night. You saw that right here on this broadcast, an angry protester speaking with our own Steve Harrigan. And the marchers are getting louder in Charlotte at this hour. Benjamin Watson is professional football player on the Baltimore Ravens and he's author of under our skin. He's been giving a lot of thought to this issue of race for a long time. Benjamin, thanks for being back with us.
BENJAMIN WATSON, Thank for having me.
KELLY: And her passion made everyone feel what she was going through and what you've gone through at different times in your own life.
WATSON: Yeah. This is obviously a very, very deep, deep topic. And you're seeing the passion, you're seeing the anger and the frustration and the fear. The thing that hit home for me was hearing the officer in the helicopter to say that looks like a bad dude right there from hundreds of feet in the air, and that is the bias.
KELLY: That's in Tulsa, Oklahoma. That's the case where the police officer has now been arrested.
WATSON: Yes, that's in fact in Tulsa -- back in Tulsa. Yes, ma'am. And that's the bias that I think we all operate and even if it's implicit, black and white in this country, we operate under a bias if we're honest with ourselves, that people of dark skin complexion can be looked at as criminals. So, I understand the anger that she's expressing there.
KELLY: Some -- some definitely are biased. There's no question. And that big bad dude did not deserve to be shot. He was looking for help from police after his truck broke down. And here is what his sister had to say about the quote "big bad dude" yesterday, watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That big bad dude was my twin brother. That big bad dude was a father. That big bad dude was a son. That big bad dude was enrolled at Tulsa Community College just wanting to make us proud.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Benjamin, you say this experience in Tulsa, what we just saw there, can save us. What do you mean?
WATSON: Wait, what's that? We're still live. I think that it gives us an opportunity to get this stuff out in the open. One of the biggest things we have to be able to do is to handle conflict and handle it correctly. We're able to look at our biases, look at our frustration, look at our sin in this area, our pride and our selfishness. It allows us to move forward. What doesn't allow us to move forward because when we simply, and I've seen it on social media, it really, really upsets me, is to get in our corners and call names and turn our back to each other.
That doesn't help anymore. But when we're able to confront it, we're able to understand that you know, Obama can't save us, Ms. Clinton can't save us, Mr. Trump can't save us. The only one who can change the heart of man is the Lord. And that will make us want to make things fair for other people. That would want to make us administer justice no matter if this in race or it it's in sex trafficking or it's in poverty. That will make us care about what our brothers and sisters are going through.
That will make us respect authority when our hearts are changed. And what we're seeing here in Charlotte is wrong. There shouldn't be any of this going on. There shouldn't be any looting or anything like that. But we're seeing a lot of frustration and nobody knows the answer. All of us are saying we need an answer and what I'm saying is we need, all of us, a heart change so as America we can move forward.
KELLY: "Under Our Skin" is worth the read. Benjamin, great to see you. Thank you for coming out.
WATSON: Thank you, Megyn.
KELLY: I want to get back down to Mike Tobin live on the streets of Charlotte. Mike, what are you seeing?
TOBIN: Well, not a lot of change since the last time we talked Megyn, just a lot of marching. We see them stop sometimes in the street intersections and they'll start chanting and it'll get pretty rowdy. Well, for the most part they are -- at this point, some of the look a little tired to me and just marching through the streets. And again, what we don't see is a large presence of police.
I see a couple of police officers up in the front in which I think just keeping an eye on the situation. But you don't -- have a big line of police that could start some friction with these demonstrators. Now they stopped at one location here, and usually what happens is they'll give some directions or they'll start chanting when they're at this one point where they're stopping. But I certainly can't report any trouble right now, Megyn. We're seeing people marching doing their thing.
KELLY: We're glad to hear that and a big difference from what we saw last night, which looked like a very dangerous situation and indeed was. I want to just ask you this, Mike. What is the presence now? We've got the National Guard and the local Charlotte police. What is the ratio of police presence, law enforcement presence to protesters tonight and how many protesters would you guess there are? Hundreds?
TOBIN: In hundreds now. I would say, I'd ballpark it at around 500, the people I see marching on the street. And again, the police are making themselves visible. I know in one of the hotels, a lot of the police are hanging out in the lobby and cooling off, and note some of the police in the heavy riot gear. So they're not coming out here to be confrontational.
You see at the front of this crowd right now -- Bob (ph) you shoot straight forward -- you see a small platoon if you will of bike cops in light gear. Looks like they're just blazing the trail and getting the traffic out of the way and making sure nobody gets hurt. As far as the national...
KELLY: What a difference 24 hours makes...
TOBIN: Yeah, a difference a day makes.
KELLY: ...and let's hope it stays that way. Mike, thank you. As the scenes in Charlotte unfold, both candidates for president are weighing in on this race and on policing. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, D-PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: In Tulsa, an unarmed man with his hands in the air, I mean this is just unbearable. And it needs to be intolerable. And so, you know, maybe I can, by speaking directly to white people say, look, this is not who we are. We've got to do everything possible to improve policing, to go right at implicit bias.
DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I watched the shooting in particular in Tulsa. This young officer, I don't know what she was thinking. I don't know what she was thinking. Did she get scared? Was she choking? What happened? But maybe people like that, people that choke, people that do that maybe they can't be doing what they're doing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Joining to me now, Trump campaign national spokesperson Katrina Pierson and Democratic strategist and White House senior advisor under President Bill Clinton, Richard Socarides, it's good to see you both. Richard, let me start with you on what Hillary Clinton said. Maybe she can speak to white people about the shooting deaths of African-Americans?
The case that we're watching here in Charlotte involved a black officer shooting a black suspect and there's a black police chief. I mean, why must she inject the notion that it's all whites against all blacks?
RICHARD SOCARIDES, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, Megyn, first of all thanks for having me on this night when a lot is going on right now. I really don't think it's a reasonable read to think from what she said, that she was trying to inject anything inappropriate.
KELLY: But what does she mean she can speak to white people.
SOCARIDES: I think she meant she could speak to all Americans including Caucasians, you know, and all Americans about what the issues are here. I mean, listen, I think that, you know, the campaign has had a lot of divisiveness in it. Donald Trump has, you know, in my view is the most divisive person we've ever seen running for president.
So, the idea that anyone would try to use this to political advantage in this climate is kind of ridiculous. But look what Mr. Trump said. I mean, even today he raised the birther idea and said that he really didn't in fact reject the birther movement, that it was only because he wanted to move on to other issues on his campaign because he thought this issue was hurting him.
So I think that really what we need for people to do now is to focus on real solutions. And that's what I think Hillary Clinton is doing.
KELLY: OK, Katrina, before we get to the Trump stuff, your thoughts on what Hillary said.
KATRINA PIERSON, TRUMP CAMPAIGN NATIONAL SPOKESWOMAN: Listen Megyn, the reason why Hillary Clinton said what she said is because she has to make everything about race because she sees the numbers in the polls shifting. There are more African-Americans supporting Mr. Trump. But the problem with Hillary Clinton is the damage was done, because she did speak to white people when it comes to race back in 1996, when he framed black youth as super predators with no conscience who needed to be brought to heal. Twenty years of mass incarceration and this idea that young black people need to be brought to heal has contributed to what makes them feel about this community;
KELLY: That was in the context -- that was on the context of gang violence. It wasn't about all young black people. But what about Richard's allegation on the birther?
PIERSON: But this is what's hurting communities like in Chicago. This is what's plaguing a lot of this community.
KELLY: But let me ask you this question -- on Richard's allegation about the birther comments. Indeed today Trump, when asked about his walking back with his statements that Trump -- that president Obama was not born in the United States, that it was born in Kenya, suggested the reason he did that was because he just wanted to put the matter to bed as a political matter. So, does he in fact believe that president Obama was born in the United States or doesn't he?
PIERSON: Well, you'll have to take him at his word. He had a press conference saying that Barack Obama was born in the United States period. And he also stated he wanted to put that issue to bed and get on with the real topics like that one's we're facing today.
We are talking about issues that plague the black community that Hillary Clinton was on the front lines for, like keeping failed public school monopolies in place, like amnesty which she wants to push forward which actually hurts the black community by depressing wages and taking up low skill jobs. These are all things that Hillary Clinton fought for.
KELLY: OK, but Richard what do you make it because right now, according to one poll, Donald Trump's numbers with African-Americans are about where Mitt Romney's numbers were. So they're climbing a bit and today his language was about fixing a wounded country. He softened some of his rhetoric.
SOCARIDES: I mean, I don't really see him softening some of his rhetoric. One of his spokespeople in Ohio today said that there was no racial inequality, no racial discrimination until President Obama was president. I mean I think that the campaign he's running is a campaign based upon fear and divisiveness, his refusal to reject David Duke and the Ku Klux Klan, his discussion of stop and frisk in the terms of when he was asked what to do about this. He raised (ph) the stop and frisk...
PIERSON: Megyn, that campaign person, that campaign person was speaking specifically to what's happening today.
SOCARIDES: So I just think that this is...
KELLY: That campaign spokesperson.
SOCARIDES: She got fired. She got fired for saying that.
KELLY: She was forced to step down by saying those incendiary things. Great to see you both on a difficult night.
SOCARIDES: Thanks Megyn.
KELLY: We'll be right back.
KELLY: What did you think of Benjamin Watson? Buy his book, check it out, "Under Our Skin." Go to facebook.com/thekellyfile and on Twitter @megynkelly. Let me know what you think. I'd love to hear from you. Thank you for watching. I'm Megyn Kelly. This is "The Kelly File" and we have a live "Hannity" right now.
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