'Hannity' special: Dual Threat: Political correctness and jihad

How American lives are being put in danger; Reaction on 'Hannity'


This is a rush transcript from "Hannity," December 18, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

TUCKER CARLSON, GUEST HOST: Welcome to a special edition of "Hannity." Tonight, a dual threat, political correctness and jihad.

I'm Tucker Carlson, in tonight for Sean. This hour, we'll take a look at how you, the American people, are being put in grave danger because some politicians continue to lie about the threat we face from Islamic terror abroad.

President Obama has severely underestimated ISIS by calling it the JV team in a 2014 interview. He also said the terror group was, quote, "contained." He said that just hours before the Paris terrorist attacks.  And just yesterday, the president admitted he was slow to reassure the public over growing concerns of terror threats to this country.

Earlier today at his year-end press conference, the president said this about ISIS. Watch.


PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: It is very difficult for us to detect lone wolf plots, or plots involving a husband and wife in this case because despite the incredible vigilance and professionalism of all our law enforcement, Homeland Security, et cetera, it's not that different from us trying to detect the next mass shooter. You don't always see it. They're not always communicating publicly. And if you're not catching what they say publicly, then it becomes a challenge.


HANNITY: Here with reaction, senior fellow with the London Center for Policy Research Lieutenant Colonel Tony Shaffer, Fox News military analysts Colonel David Hunt and General Bob Scales. Welcome all (sic) to you both.

Colonel Shaffer, I want to start with you. The president saying it's very difficult to detect these attacks and therefore to prevent them. That sounds almost like a preemptive excuse.

LT. COL. TONY SHAFFER (RET.), LONDON CTR. FOR POLICY RESEARCH: Well, it's impossible to detect if you don't look where you're supposed to look, and that's what we have here.

Tucker, let be me clear on this. This was a policy failure. These terrorists, to include others and ISIS, are telegraphing all the time via social media, via their own unencoded communications what their intentions are.

This couple in San Bernardino left nothing in doubt about what the intentions are. It was the DHS policy, and before that the State Department policy, which prohibited -- it didn't -- it didn't just kind of hint that you shouldn't, it prohibited our officers, our intelligence officers, our law enforcement officers looking where they're supposed to.


SHAFFER: And this policy still exists. I talked to undercover officers in two metropolitan cities on the Eastern Seaboard, and they even -- they can't look at jihadi Web sites or Islamic Web sites because it may be, quote, unquote, "a violation of privacy." It's totally insane.

CARLSON: It's almost unbelievable. General Scales, there was a pretty remarkable story today from Foreign Policy magazine. It's in an interview with Chuck Hagel, Senator Hagel, the former secretary of defense.


CARLSON: He's the third secretary of defense in a row -- Leon Panetta, Bob Gates before him -- to complain about political interference from the White House while he was in that job.

I'm quoting now. He said, "Meetings with the White House were, quote, not productive. We kept deferring the tough decisions."

You really get a sense that these guys at the White House have no idea what they're doing, and here we have another secretary of defense confirming that!

SCALES: That's three in a row, Tucker. Yes, I've talked to several senior uniformed friends of mine in the Pentagon, and they all tell me the same thing. They say there's this buffer between sound military advice and what the president hears.

The president turns to his inner circle in the National Security Council or on the White House staff to find out what the situation is and how to respond it. But you know, we have a saying -- an old saying in the Army. It's called "ground truth," where you strip out the politics and you strip out the hope. What you're left with is ground truth.

And unfortunately, ground truth in this case as it relates to ISIS, particularly ISIS in the Middle East, never seems to make it up to his level. That's why in his Pentagon press conference last week, he looked so stunned because he just heard the Joint Chiefs of staff telling the truth, and it wasn't the truth that he'd heard from Susan Rice.

CARLSON: So Colonel Hunt, I mean, this has got to make the uniformed military commanders very nervous. There's always the assumption that the people at the top kind of know what they're doing. There's a plan.  They've thought this through. When someone like Chuck Hagel comes out and pulls back the curtain and reveals there really is no plan, they don't know what they're doing, where does that leave the men leading our armed forces?

COL. DAVID HUNT (RET.), FOX MILITARY ANALYST: Look, the guys that -- the guilty parties here are both in uniform and out. Since 9/11, we have not been fighting this as a total war. Less than 1 percent of the American people are in uniform. The American public has no skin in the game, and yet now we got 50 percent who want us back on the ground in Syria.

Since 9/11, we have not treated this as a total war. The stuff that Tony's talking about, yes, of course, we've got to be much more aggressive with how we go -- use the Internet. We've got 430 federal agencies, about 10 of them are involved in the war.

And by the way, it's ever been so in my lifetime that we've had political interference going back to the war General Scales and I fought.  This is just -- there's nothing new about political interference.

The problem is, we as a country have not signed up for the fact that we're in a total war. Whether you call them fascist Islamists or terrorists, we've got a country that's not awake to this and is fully willing to allow the American soldier, which I've got friends going back on their eighth tour, to do all the fighting.

CARLSON: Yes, it is such a small group who shoulders the whole burden. Colonel Shaffer, I hate (INAUDIBLE) stories out because they really do shake your faith in the ability of the U.S. government to protect this country, but here's another one. This is from The New York Times.  The president met recently with a bunch of columnists. This is how he likes to communicate, gathers a bunch of like-minded writers together.

Here's the quote from The Times. "In his meeting with the columnists, Mr. Obama indicated that he did not see enough cable television to fully appreciate the anxiety after the attacks in Paris and San Bernardino and made clear that he plans to step up his public arguments."

The New York Times, by the way, later stripped that line out of the story, didn't explain why, still hasn't.

But the point remains the president said, I didn't know people were worried because I wasn't watching television. How out of touch is he?

SHAFFER: Well, you know, when you're playing "Call of Duty" 10 hours a day on your console, it's hard to get focused on what's going on.


SHAFFER: I'm being facetious, of course. Well, look, as Bob Scales just said -- General Scales is accurate. He's completely insulated with those who politically advise him, Susan Rice and others who have completely isolated him. He probably does not know what's going on.

And so I think when you get this, and as Bob stipulated, when he went to the Pentagon to be briefed by Joe Dunford, General -- new chairman, and Ash Carter, I'm sure it was, like, Oh, my -- what the heck's going on?

So this is one of those things where they accurately portrayed what he said, and I think that's why it was censored out.

CARLSON: So General Scales, you know personally a lot of people at the Pentagon. Are they confident that Susan Rice is a capable civilian leader?

SCALES: Oh, boy! Let me tell you, a friend of mine -- this was just last week -- told me, You know, back in your day, you were afraid to speak in front of the media during Vietnam. In my day, we were afraid to speak around the water cooler because of all the political plants inside the Pentagon who keep their ear to the ground and almost in a -- I don't know, almost like in a Stalinesque atmosphere inside the Pentagon where you're expected to speak and to think according to a certain world view.

Well, not every person who wears a uniform adheres to that world view, and so they're muzzled. Their bosses are muzzled. Their ability to send a paper up to the president with a plan B is never generated because the White House specifically said, Gentlemen, if it's boots on the ground, a plan B, it won't happen. You're not even allowed to plan it. Can you believe that, Tucker?

CARLSON: That is totally shocking. Colonel Hunt, the next president is going to inherit this military. How long will it take to get it up to strength sufficient to fight the war you described?

HUNT: We have the -- after 14 years of continuous combat, we have the greatest military maybe in our history. This is a phenomenal military.  It's not a question of numbers, it's a question of not having rules of engagement.

And I got to push back hard on General Scales. He just said Stalin in the same breath as the Pentagon. Stalin (INAUDIBLE) that's just inconceivable that he would just say that. This -- look, these uniformed officers have got an obligation. There's no question. But we've got the finest trained soldiers. I just mentioned, eight tours of guys going back on.

This is not about the military capability. It's about political will and a nation that is not participating and a total war which is much more complicated than just killing terrorists. We've been doing that for 14 years, bombed Iraq for 23.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tucker -- Tucker...

HUNT: Just (ph) killing them is not the answer.

CARLSON: Gentlemen, I'm sorry, I wish we could continue (INAUDIBLE) commercial break, but we were out of time for this segment. Thanks a lot for joining us, all three of you.

SHAFFER: Thank you.

CARLSON: Appreciate it.

SCALES: Thank you, Tucker.

CARLSON: Coming up, a shocking new poll shows 77 percent of Americans don't think the U.S. government will be able to protect them from an attack here in the homeland.

And later tonight...


HILLARY CLINTON, D-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE:  State Department and the technology industry should work together to develop a unified national strategy to defeat ISIS in cyberspace.


CARLSON: So she's been in public life since you were in 5th grade, but now she's got a plan to protect the country, she says. How does it differ from the Republican plan to protect the country? We'll tell you.

And then, DHS Secretary Jeh Johnson joins the long list of officials who now admit ISIS can infiltrate those groups of Syrian refugees you're paying to bring to this country. Why won't the president make the same admission?

That is more as this special edition of "Hannity" continues.



CARLSON: Welcome back to this special edition of "Hannity," dual threat tonight, political correctness and jihad.

A shocking new poll shows that 77 percent of Americans are not at all confident the U.S. government can protect them from a lone wolf attack.  Just this week, these headlines -- a Maryland man was arrested after allegedly taking money from ISIS operatives overseas which he planned to use to carry out an attack right here in America.

In Pennsylvania, a teen was busted for attempting to provide material support to ISIS. And just yesterday here in New York state, a pizza shop owner pleaded guilty to trying to recruit people to join the Islamic State.  What is going on? Can you connect the dots?

Here with reaction, former White House security council (sic) staff under President Bush and President Obama Gillian Turner, and Heritage senior fellow of national security affairs at the Heritage Foundation Peter Brookes. Welcome to you both.

Peter, connect these dots for us. I mean, we're looking at what we feared for years, aren't we?

PETER BROOKES, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: Yes, absolutely. I mean, we're in the crosshairs of the Islamic State and I'm sure al Qaeda, as well.  We've had in this -- just in this year, we've had 13 or 14 terrorist plots or attacks, which makes it the most terrorist plot or attack-intensive year since 9/11. The FBI is investigating more than 900 cases in all 50 states.  So yes, we're living in unprecedented times, and I understand why the American people feel the way they do.

CARLSON: Yes, they -- I can understand it, too, Gillian, though, actually, I have a lot of confidence in our law enforcement. I have a lot of confidence in our military and our intel community, for the most part.

What I'm really worried about is the fact that no one in Washington seems to be thinking through what the appeal of ISIS would be. Why is a pizza shop owner trying to recruit people? Why is a teen in Pennsylvania trying to join ISIS? What's the appeal? I don't get the sense anyone in the White House has any idea or is trying to learn!

What's your sense?

GILLIAN TURNER, FORMER NSC STAFFER: I would say that the key here is not finding only a military or a diplomatic and political solution to the ISIS problem, but finding an ideological solution. As the president himself says all the time, we need to fight the ideology. We need to degrade the ideology. I think he's 100 percent right.

CARLSON: But what -- what...

TURNER: The problem...


CARLSON: Fight it with -- that...

TURNER: Well, that's the problem.

CARLSON: ... I agree with completely...


CARLSON: But with what? With a sense of what America is? He doesn't project that. With a...

TURNER: Well, that's -- but that's what we need, and...

CARLSON: So what's the point?

TURNER: ... that's, I think, what we're not seeing. And one of the things that I counter against the, you know, kind of military hawks who say there will only be a military solution with boots on the ground, is that's not true. If you go in tomorrow and eradicate the entire ISIS organization, wipe them off the face of the earth, they'll be repopulated within a few years, six -- a few months, excuse me.

But that's why the ideology comes in. That's how you show people -- you have to find a way to convince them ISIS is not the way of the future.  Radical Islam is not going to make their lives and their families' lives better.

CARLSON: So Peter, it's one thing not to know what you're talking about. I know nothing about botany, and I'm not guilty about it. But it's another to refuse to get advice and counsel from those who do. You had the third secretary of defense in a row, Chuck Hagel, former senator from Nebraska, say today that his advice was ignored by the political operatives at the White House.

Should that worry us? It sounds worrisome to me, really worrisome.

BROOKES: Yes, we should be very worried about it, considering how well the president's strategy is doing and the fact that he won't move off of that. He criticizes, he dismisses, he disses his critics over (ph) anybody who says that his strategy isn't working. And I think we've seen from so many people that are not in his position that this is a stalemate, that we're not winning on the ground. Look what Secretary Carter has said recently to Congress.

So you know, the problem is, is the president keeps telling us to be patient. Well, how much pain are we going to have to endure while we're being patient with the president's strategy that doesn't seem to be doing the job?

I mean, Tucker, we've seen a doubling in the last 18 months of foreign fighters going to ISIS. And I believe that's because there are many motivations for joining the Islamic State or supporting them, but one of the reasons is they look like a winner. And as long as we're losing this battle against them in Iraq and Syria and they're moving elsewhere, they're going to continue to be attractive to many people.

CARLSON: That's exactly right. People follow strength, not weakness.  Dogs do, too, by the way, if you've ever tried to train one.

So Gillian, have you noticed -- I've noticed this theme with the president's reactions to acts of terror in this country and other places.  His first instinct is to blame Americans. You have too many guns. You're Islamophobic. You pollute and cause global warming, which drives chaos in the Middle East, et cetera, et cetera. His real outrage seems to be reserved for his fellow Americans.

TURNER: I don't know that there's outrage against fellow Americans.  I take your point. It's a well -- it's a good point. I think part of the problem here is a denial of the power that radical Islam is having not just here at home but globally.

One of the things he said again today in his last presser of the year, which he's been saying a lot lately, is touting the statistic that ISIS is -- 40 percent of the territory they had retaken has been taken back by the anti-ISIS coalition led by the U.S.

And while that's an important point, it's important to deny them a territorial stronghold in Iraq, it completely discounts the fact that as of a few weeks ago, they were successfully able to penetrate half a world away the heart of the French capital in Western Europe. And that's a big problem.

CARLSON: Well, it is a problem. And Peter, so Jeh Johnson, secretary of Homeland Security, says today, yes, entirely likely, probable, in fact, that terrorists will try to embed among groups of Syrian refugees coming into this country.

That's such a terrifying prospect that any normal person would say, You know what? We want to help, but we just can't. We just can't right now. We're going to shut that down because our primary, really our moral obligation is to protect American citizens first.

Why is that not the president's first reaction?

BROOKES: Well, I can't speak for the president, certainly, Tucker, but the fact of the matter i, is we have to look at everything. Like I said, we're in a new security environment, an unprecedentedly dangerous security environment, and we're dealing with a very determined enemy.

So they're going to look at recruiting people in place like we've seen this year. They're going to look for -- they're going to look to target commercial aviation. They're going to look to try to move people through refugees and other means. So I think this is an opportunity for us, unfortunate opportunity, that we have to review everything we thought we were doing correctly because we're dealing with a very dangerous enemy in the Islamic State...

CARLSON: Oh, you must not...

BROOKES: ... and other terrorist groups.

CARLSON: ... live in Washington. Never rethink your approach. That would be wrong!


CARLSON: Thank you both for joining us. Appreciate it (INAUDIBLE)

BROOKES: Thanks for having me.

TURNER: Thanks.

CARLSON: Coming up next on the program...


CLINTON:  The State Department and the technology industry should work together to develop a unified national strategy to defeat ISIS in cyberspace.


CARLSON: That was Hillary Clinton running for president. She went on to call her Republican opponents bigots, but she refused to call the enemy what it really is, Islamic.

And later tonight...


JEH JOHNSON, DHS SECRETARY: We do have to be concerned about the possibility that a terrorist organization may seek to exploit our refugee process.


CARLSON: And in tonight's news from the obvious, Department of Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson just the latest official in a long list to acknowledge that ISIS could indeed infiltrate the Syrian refugees coming to this country at taxpayer expense. So why won't the president do the same thing? That and more as this special edition of "Hannity" continues.


CARLSON: Welcome back to this special edition of "Hannity." Tonight, "Dual Threat, Political Correctness and Jihad." Earlier this week, Hillary Clinton laid out her plan to defeat ISIS and prevent future attacks while taking a shot at her Republican rivals. Watch this.


CLINTON:  Promising to carpet bomb until the desert glows doesn't make you sound strong, it makes you sound like you're in over your head.

We have to discover and disrupt jihadist plots before they can be carried out.

Experts from the FBI, the intelligence community, Homeland Security, DOD, the State Department and the technology industry should work together to develop a unified national strategy to defeat ISIS in cyberspace.

We should insist on comprehensive background checks and close loopholes that allow potential terrorists to buy weapons on line or at gun shows, and I think it's time to restore the ban on assault weapons and high-capacity magazines.



CARLSON: Idiotic! Meanwhile, Hillary Clinton's Republican opponents took a markedly different tone during the debate on Tuesday night.


JEB BUSH, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, first of all, we need to destroy ISIS in the caliphate. That should be our objective. The refugee issue will be solved if we destroy ISIS there, which means we need to have a no-fly zone, safe zones there for refugees and to build a military force.

DR. BEN CARSON, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am asking the Congress, which represents the people, to declare war on ISIS so that we can begin the process of excising that cancer and begin the healing process and bring peace, prosperity and safety back to America.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We must deal frontally with this threat of radical Islamists, especially from ISIS.  This is the most sophisticated terror group that has ever threatened the world or the United States of America. They are actively recruiting Americans. The attacker in San Bernardino was an American citizen!

GOV. JOHN KASICH, R-OHIO, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: First and foremost, we need to go and destroy ISIS. And we need to do this with our Arab friends and our friends in Europe. And when I see they have a climate conference over in Paris, they should have been talking about destroying ISIS because they're involved in virtually every country, you know, across this world.


SEN. TED CRUZ, R-TEXAS, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You would carpet bomb where ISIS is, not a city, but the location of the troops. You use air power, direct it, and you have embedded forces to direct the air power.  But the object isn't to level the city. The object is to kill the ISIS terrorists.

DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have to get rid of ISIS first. After we get rid of ISIS, we'll start thinking about it, but we can't be fighting Assad, and when you're fighting Assad, you're fighting Russia, you're fighting -- you're fighting a lot of different groups. But we can't be fighting everybody at one time.


CARLSON: Joining us now with reaction to all this, from The Washington Times, Charlie Hurt, FOX News contributors Doug Schoen and Angela McGlowan.

Charlie, you're in Washington. I'll start with you first. Hillary Clinton has been in public life and in the middle of public policy since you were, like, probably 5th grade. So she (ph) had a lot of time to think about this, and what she's come up with is close the gun show loophole.  That's her strategy?


CHARLES HURT, WASHINGTON TIMES: And you know -- yes, and if you go back and you listen to what she said in that speech, just about every single thing that she mentioned at least touched on in some way the State Department. And if only we had a secretary of state who would have taken this on and taken it seriously before -- wait, who was the secretary of state before John Kerry? Oh, wait a minute. It was Hillary Clinton!

Why didn't she do this then? Why is she now -- only now discovering this? And if you look back at the San Bernardino attack, of course, none of that would have happened if the visa program didn't have this gaping, glaring loophole that allowed this lady to get in here in the first place and radicalize (INAUDIBLE)

CARLSON: Well, that's a fair point. So I mean, Doug, how many terrorists have bought automatic or semi-automatic weapons at gun shows and then used them? Oh, zero? Zero? So that's her plan that she's -- I don't -- I think she's...


DOUG SCHOEN, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: I haven't even opened my mouth...

CARLSON: But you know the answer...


SCHOEN: I was going to say we need to do both. We have to defeat ISIS. We have to make sure the visa program is tightened up. And we have to do cybersecurity so that these kind of horrific tragedies don't happen.  It's not either/or! It's all steps.

CARLSON: Why even throw that in there? That is something that she's been pushing for...

SCHOEN: Very simple.

CARLSON: The assault weapons ban has nothing to do with this!


CARLSON: This is a joke!

SCHOEN: ... you can't buy, Tucker.

CARLSON: No, that's not what she said! She said, We need to go back to...

SCHOEN: She did say that.

CARLSON: ... the assault weapons ban.


CARLSON: There's no evidence...


SCHOEN: ... to terror. I agree.

MCGLOWAN: I love your passion here, but the bottom line is...


MCGLOWAN: ... this, you have terrorists that are at war, and we don't know what we're doing. Hillary Clinton -- are we going to, like, fight this war in the virtual cyber world? Are we going to use avatars?

The bottom line is terrorist -- they need tools of war. And Tucker, that's guns, ammunition and bombs. Now, listen. In Paris, they have a no- gun law. They have a no-gun law.

CARLSON: How did that work?

MCGLOWAN: You've had three terrorist attacks, and one was actually saved by Americans...


CARLSON: You know this. Of course, you know the facts, apparently.  I want to ask you the question then.


CARLSON: Why, when there's zero evidence that gun control measures in any country have prevented terror attacks is that the first thing that politicians on the left in this country go to when there is a terror attack?

MCGLOWAN: Because it's a good, passionate argument. Liberals, when they have failed policy, what do they do? They detract. They deflect.  And that's what she's doing. She's blaming the culture (ph).

SCHOEN: Can I give you an answer without you bashing me?

CARLSON: Look, I'm just rooting this in social science.

SCHOEN: Just let...

CARLSON: I just want facts.

SCHOEN: Yes. OK. Here's are the facts. There is a Democratic primary coming up in February in Iowa and New Hampshire. Hillary Clinton has a point of distinction on gun control with Bernie Sanders. She needs to do it. She also has to distance herself from Obama whose statements today were unacceptable.

CARLSON: Let me ask you real quickly. You have concerns about the visa program, about refugees. Does it make you a bigot?


SCHOEN: She's not a bigot.

MCGLOWAN: No, I'm not a bigot.

CARLSON: Do you take that at all personal? Hillary Clinton dismisses her opponents --

MCGLOWAN: Being a black Republican, I have been called many things.  But the bottom line is this. We need a commander in chief that will protect our homeland. Whether we're called bigots, we're all Americans.  And at the end of the day the terrorists want to take us out.

SCHOEN: That's right.

CARLSON: Amen. On that note, we end. Thank you all for joining us.  Charlie in Washington, thanks.

Up next on this special edition of the "Hannity" program --


JOHNSON: We do have to be concerned about the possibility that a terrorist organization may seek to exploit our refugee resettlement process.


CARLSON: Secretary of homeland security admitting terrorists are trying to infiltrate the ref withdrew gees coming to American. Congressman Brian Babbitt and his son Leif join us later on that topic. And then it's an interview you won't want to miss. We'll talk to the former jihadi sounding the alarm about radical Islam. He's been there. He's seen it.  He'll tell us what he saw. That and more as this special edition of HANNITY continues.



JOHNSON: You have to be concerned about the possibility that a terrorist organization may seek to exploit our refugee resettlement process. That is true in this country. That's true of every other country that accepts refugees.


CARLSON: Yes, because it just happened in France the other day. That was homeland security secretary Jeh Johnson telling you what you already knew, warning terrorists could be trying to infiltrate our refugee resettlement program, the one that you are paying for. Texas Congressman Brian Babin does not think the U.S. should be welcoming Syrian refugees due to those concerns. He joins us now along with his son Leif who is the author of the terrific New York Times bestseller, "Extreme Ownership, How the U.S. Navy Seals Lead and Win," and a friend of ours at Fox. Thanks both of you for being here.

First to you, congressman. I think if you look at the polling on the subject, most Americans are open-hearted, decent people who welcome foreigners in trouble, but I don't think many at all support moving people from the Syrian battlefield to this country because, like, why would we.  Can we stop this?

REP. BRIAN BABIN, R-TEXAS: We're trying. I have been trying to do this since I dropped a Bill back in July called the resettlement accountability and national security act which would suspend this program.  Unfortunately, we couldn't get it through this latest bill, this omnibus bill. But I'm not giving up. This is an overwhelmingly important aspect and issue today, and the American people are with us. And they don't want jihad. They don't want to open doors and opportunity for jihad and ISIS to come in and set up bases of operation legally, and at taxpayer expense right here in America and have a repeat of San Bernardino and Paris and some of the other attacks that we've seen. And so we are going to continue this fight, and we will keep going with every fiber in our body to continue to try this.

CARLSON: Leif, does it bother you as someone who served his country with gun in hand and risked his life doing it to hear Hillary Clinton describe anyone with your father's point of view as a bigot?

LEIF BABIN, "EXTREME OWNERSHIP" AUTHOR: It certainly does. It's incredibly naive and just foolish to think the terrorists aren't going to be exploiting this program. I applaud my dad and his courage to stand up and lead this fight to put a stop to this ridiculous program.

CARLSON: But the demagoguery makes it almost impossible to be honest about it. There's nothing bigoted about saying what your dad just said, what you said, what I think, what I think the overwhelming majority of Americans think. We want to help, but this is really dangerous. You're a bigot for saying this now?

LEIF BABIN: What's messed up about this, the most difficult thing is Hillary Clinton as secretary of state is to blame. President Obama is to blame for this problem. And we could have easily solved this problem a year ago if we had leadership that allowed the U.S. military to destroy ISIS where they are in Iraq and Syria and we wouldn't have this refugee problem.

CARLSON: One of my ongoing frustrations with Washington is nobody learns from anything. And you'll notice that every week there's a story about Minneapolis as this hotbed for home grown terrorism. Why Minneapolis? Because there are a lot of angry Swedes? No. Because we resettled a ton of Somali refugees there. A lot of them are great people.  Some of them aren't. And so is anybody in Washington thinking through what we can do with future waves of refugees to make sure they don't wind up like the ones in Minneapolis?

BABIN: Yes, there is. Brian Babin, I was a voice in the wilderness for months. Then after the attack in Paris and San Bernardino, all of a sudden, everybody is talking about it.

But political correctness is getting people killed. And we have got to stop the politically correct way of thinking inside the beltway up here in Washington. And instead of plussing up our refugee program, which this omnibus spending package does by $100 million, we need to cut this thing out. We need to suspend it. And we need to stop worrying about shutting the government down, who's going to be blamed for that, because overwhelmingly Americans want to stop this refugee program. They know it's dangerous. We have seen the results of it. And we don't want a repeat of it. Look at western Europe where we have no-go zones. We've got to stop this.

CARLSON: Of course, Leif, have you noticed that the people in favor of this, almost all of them have 24-hour armed body guards paid for at public expense, which is to say they will never have to personally deal with the consequences of the programs they support?

LEIF BABIN: That's very true. And those same people want to take the guns away from law abiding citizens.

CARLSON: The ones with their own body guards who are armed.

LEIF BABIN: Exactly, which is despicable.

What bothers me most about this is we have got extraordinary U.S. troops that are serving overseas, doing their best to try to take on this threat and eliminate the problem and not just the symptom. We have to take the reins off them and allow them to do their jobs and take the fight to ISIS and destroy them.

CARLSON: If I'm in the U.S. military and sleeping outside with a gun in my hand in the Middle East, I'm really hoping that the people giving the orders know what they're doing, are sincere, responsible, knowledgeable, have America's interest at heart. How worried would you be if you were still over there with the leadership we have now?

LEIF BABIN: Well, it's incredibly frustrating. Our troops understand this is an evil enemy. This radical Islamic jihadi enemy that we face is an evil an enemy as the U.S. military has ever faced in our long history, and we have to do something about it. No matter who's in charge, they're going to do what they can to make it happen.

CARLSON: That is such a great attitude. Finally, congressman, you have made, I think, a series of comments and points. You're clearly not crazy or wild. You seem to be someone who wants to protect the country, and that's what you should want. How many of your fellow Republicans in the House would you say agree with you?

BABIN: I had 75 of my colleagues sign on to my Bill. We need far more than that, of course.

CARLSON: Where are the rest of them? Why in the world wouldn't they support this? Do you have any idea?

BABIN: You know, I don't know what it's going to take for folks to wake up. I mean, as Leif just said, what is it going to take for the president to wake up? You know, the danger is real. And it is a national crisis right now. Our FBI director, as you just played a while ago, Jeh Johnson, secretary of homeland security, we're being warned. These guys work for the president.

And we've just got to understand that the American people are afraid. They're apprehensive. They're out arming themselves because they know that things can happen real fast right here in our own country. They will and have.         

And I will say this. We saw the bad thing that happened in San Bernardino. But when the jihadis attacked in Texas, we had some armed people there, and it didn't turn out so well for them. And so if the authorities can't be there, then we have to be vigilant, and instead of disarming us, this administration needs to be certain that our Second Amendment rights are happening and that we are armed ourselves.

CARLSON: People are all going to be living in Texas by the end.  Congressman, thanks a lot for joining us. Leif, great to see you. Father and son, you guys should have a special. Appreciate it.

BABIN: Thank you.

CARLSON: Coming up next, you'll hear from a former jihadi who is sounding the alarm about radical Islam. It's an interview you have got to see, that and more as this special edition of "Hannity: Dual Threat, Political Correctness and Jihad," continues.          


HANNITY: Welcome back to this special edition of "Hannity: Dual Threat, Political Correctness and Jihad." As a young Muslim doctor in Egypt, my next guest turned to radical Islam, but after witnessing firsthand the horrors of terrorism, he turned his life around. He spent the last couple of decades warning about the dangers of Islamic extremism.  Joining me now is the author of "Inside Jihad, How Radical Islam Works, Why it Should Terrify Us," Dr. Tawfik Hamid. Dr. Hamid, it's great to see you tonight.

So boil it down for us. We keep reading stories here in the U.S. of young people, American citizens or naturalized, but full participants in American society, joining ISIS or supporting it materially. What is the appeal?

DR. TAWFIK HAMID, "INSIDE JIHAD" AUTHOR: The appeal for them is the desire to serve their religion and serve God. And this desire is unfortunately directed in the wrong path. It's like if you have nuclear energy, for example, you can help lives with it or you destroy a city with it. The same here. You have energy, desire to serve the religion. And when that traditional and mainstream religious teaching teaches values that produce hatred and violence, you expect this outcome at the end for people who are very dedicated in this path.

CARLSON: Yes, you would. You're describing very clearly a religious impulse. These people aren't mad about global warming. They're not mad about poverty or oppression. They're trying to serve God, as you just said. It seems obviously, they say it out loud. Why do you think our leaders here, our president among them, refuse to acknowledge that?

HAMID: I think they do not want to confront the reality that religious teaching has a major role in the phenomena. Let me ask just a basic question here for everyone. Is poverty and lack of education and the social-economic and political circumstances are the cause of the problem, why these factors do not affect the young non-Muslims who live under the same circumstances? Why specifically young Muslims are more prone to these factors if these are the true factors?

   So I think we need to ask ourselves about the concept that we thought we have to be believe in them, like tolerance, for example. Many people think the U.S. became a beacon for liberty and democracy because of tolerance. In fact it is the opposite. But the U.S. was intolerant it became a beacon for democracy. For example had the U.S. been tolerant to slavery, slavery it would exist today. Because they were intolerant to slavery then we became a beacon for liberty and democracy.         So actually we need to set the definitions correct here to be able to take corrective decisions, and I don't think senior leadership are able to basically define the problem.

CARLSON: Much less defend American values against it because they don't understand what American values are. Freedom of expression of course is the most basic of all American values, and they're willing to toss it out the window in an effort to placate people who won't be placated.

How do you fight against it, though? If this is a religious impulse, if people think they're serving God, how do you convince them they're not?          

HAMID: You have three levels of intervention here. The first level is when someone is militant. You need to deal with them at the militant level or the security level or you destroy them, militants, by using force.         

You have some other groups that are radical groups who are tendency to become terrorists. These people need very power psychological warfare or psychological operations to deter them from doing the act of evil or terrorism, because for the terrorist or jihadist, it is a win, win, win, situation. If they died on earth, they will go to paradise where they have 72 virgins. If they conquer the area, they will control it by Sharia and they will achieve their goal. They are victorious.         

If they were caught by western nation they would be protected by human rights, activists, and values. So for them, it is win, win situation. And we need a strong deterrence to prevent these radicals from continuing the path of terror. Also, at the level of normal individuals, we need to work through religious reformation, reinterpretation of the religious text, plus re-changing the process that breeds radicalism and hatred that you can modify using certain cognitive psychological tactics that ultimately can prevent this phenomenon.

CARLSON: Are you convinced, doctor, that the American-Muslim establishment is doing enough to encourage young Americans in this country not to follow that path?

HAMID: Of course not. To do enough means you come to the radical teaching one by one and either reinterpret it and contextualize in a certain time and place and have clarity about certain principles like killing apostates, like beating women, like stoning women to death, like declaring jihad and taking their women as war prisoners. If there is no clear stand against these values and the principle, then we are in trouble.  And I don't see the religious leaders in the Muslim world taking a clear stand about these values.

CARLSON: And you look at the polling, and the overwhelming majority of Muslims all through the Middle East believe, the majority of them believe apostates should be killed, and you never hear anybody stand up and say that out loud.

HAMID: Absolutely. This is the core of the problem. When you underestimate human life for an apostate, then you underestimate human life for everyone else.

CARLSON: Exactly. Exactly. That's a wise point, and I hope that everyone hears you. I hope your message goes far and wide in this country.  Thanks a lot, doctor, for explaining that. Appreciate it.

   HAMID: My honor. Thank you.        

CARLSON: Coming up, more "Hannity" right after the break. Don't go away. We'll be right back.           


CARLSON: That is it. Time's up tonight. Thanks a lot for being with us for the hour. Have a great weekend.

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