Is White House taking responsibility for US casualty in ISIS raid?

Former Navy SEALs Jocko Willink and Leif Babin react to soldier's death during hostage rescue on 'The Five'


This is a rush transcript from "The Five," October 26, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST:  Hello, everyone.  I'm Kimberly Guilfoyle along with Julia Roginsky, Eric Bolling, Dana Perino, and Greg Gutfeld.  Move your head.  It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five. "

There is new dramatic video of Thursday's raid to free prisoners of ISIS in Iraq.  The U.S.-led mission took the life of a Delta force soldier.  


GUILFOYLE:  Master Sergeant Joshua Wheeler died from wounds suffered in a fire fight on the ground in Iraq, but the Obama administration is having a difficult time using the word combat to describe our engagement there.  

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY:  This is a markedly different mission than our men and women were given in 2003.  

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  It's hard to see that operation as calling in the advised category.  It's combat in every sense of the word.  

EARNEST:  The point is that, yes, our military personnel are going to encounter risks when they're in Iraq.  Even in the course of carrying out a trained advice and assist mission.  

We do not have combat formations there the way we had once upon a time in Iraq or the way we have had in years past in Afghanistan, but we do have people who are in harm's way.  This is combat, things are complicated.  


GUILFOYLE:  Joining us now are two men who once put their own lives in danger in Iraq.  They led SEAL Team 3, the most highly decorated special ops unit of the war.  Jocko Willink and Leif Babin are now the authors of the new best-seller, "Extreme Ownership:  How U.S. Navy SEALs Lead and Win. "
Welcome to both of you, gentlemen.  What a pleasure to have you at the table with us here for "The Five."  

AUTHOR:  It's good to be here.  Thank you.

GUILFOYLE:  So, a lot of news breaking and developing on this story, including dramatic new footage of this special ops unit and what happened during this raid.  Tell us your thoughts and feelings on this, Jocko.

WILLINK:  Well, you know, going off on the sound bite that they just played about that not being combat, when you hear machine gunfire and there is people running to try to kill an enemy and an enemy is trying to kill you, that's combat.  

GUILFOYLE:  Now, what about the fact that they're having trouble calling it combat, the classification, because there are a lot of benefits that can come into play when it's designated as combat action versus it not being that.  

Definitely.  I think to the guys actually serving in harm's way, they don't care about these kinds of semantics.  They want to go in there and make a difference and kill bad guys whether it's rescue hostages or just take out ISIS fires and they want to put their lives on the line, and my hats off to them.  I think probably like us, they're looking and laughing at those kinds of semantics that the politicians are playing.  

WILLINK:  I could see President Obama saying OK, if that's their job, that's workplace violence.  

GUILFOYLE:  Well, for special ops.


GUILFOYLE:  Every day for them is workplace.  You know, violence, essentially, in terms of the combat.  Go ahead, Julia.

JULIA ROGINSKY, CO-HOST:  But is this semantics?  I don't think most people understand this, but is it semantics or are there actual benefits you get if you're classified as being killed in combat versus being killed with whatever the administration is calling this?  I would think the wife of the fallen soldier, the Delta force, actually is making a specific plea to be able to get those kinds of benefits because I guess more benefits she'll receive if it's classified that way.  I don't know if you've come into that with the number of people you've had the pleasure to serve and work with.  When you have family members that are looking to pick up the pieces and recover, and it can be a tremendous financial strain as well.  

WILLINK:  I'm sure he is going to get the benefits he deserves for being killed in combat and putting his life on the line and losing it.  It's a great sacrifice and he'll be taken care of.  

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: I think it's awesome we saved those hostages and that we have video to show the kind of danger that they were in and the ability to get so many people out, and sadly, our hero lost his life.  I was curious more broadly, when you work in special operations, you could be sent anywhere any time, and usually we don't hear about it, which I think is appropriate.  Do you think that troops serving now in special operations and doing the kind of work President Obama has them doing now, do you feel like they understand what the president's mission is and do they feel fully supported that they have all the resources they need and the rules of engagement to complete that mission?

BABIN:  I can't speak for these guys.  I can tell you this.  When I was -- when we were overseas back in 2006 and it was -- there were a lot of people that were commenting about what we were doing and those kinds of things, I don't want to ever be that person to be back here in the rear.


BABIN:  .. talking about what guys are doing.  I can tell you this, though.  
We have some extraordinary U.S. servicemen and women that are willing to put their lives on the line, to go make a difference, whether it's rescue hostages or kill ISIS terrorists that are threats to America, and they are willing to go do it at any time.  And we just need some leadership that allows them to go do it.  


ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST:  So can I submit that it's probably not about the benefits that the family would be receiving of the fallen soldier, it's more likely the administration doesn't want to say that we lost another soldier on their watch?  Does it tick you off when they can't back you guys up?  I mean, here's what happened at that fire.  What I understand was is it was supposed to be a Kurdish mission.  The Kurds said we can't do it, we're not going in first.  And we stood up.  The American soldiers walked in first and one guy was killed.  Does it tick you off when the administration won't back you up and say hey, look at those are heroes, they are heroes, yes, it was a combat mission, and one died on our watch.  

WILLINK:  I would love for them to say that, and that's what they should say.  That was absolutely a combat mission.  I can't even believe we're sitting here and debating here, and talking about it.  The guy got killed in combat.  There's no question about it.  

BOLLING:  So what do you think is behind it?  

BABIN:  It is politics obviously.  I'm arguing that politically (inaudible) all the talk about boots on the ground.  And so now we can't admit that there are actually boots on the ground, they are in harm's way.

PERINO:  But you're very gracious, and you serve and you continue to try to make sure you're not trying to being political in this situation?


GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST:  Let's just talk about the actual video.  They always talk about the fog of war, but what I saw there is the speed of war.  All your thinking is almost now instinctual and the training that that must go into that so that every decision you make is already made before you even think about it.  I would need a full body defense.  


GUILFOYLE:  Kind of like on this set.

GUTFELD:  On this show, exactly.  It shows me how clear, how vulnerable our men are when they do these things, and how brave they are.  I'm glad that you said that, that these guys want to go out there and do this stuff, and go after ISIS.  I mean, ISIS is the worst incarnation of evil since Hitler.  
And I think if you enter the service, this was exactly why, right?  That was like three questions.  

WILLINK:  Yes, and to answer one of them, yes, ISIS is evil.  I know when you have an enemy that is clearly defined as evil, that makes your job a lot easier.  


WILLINK:  There's not too much debate that these guys are bad and we should kill them.  


WILLINK:  Now, your other two questions, you'll have to ask them again.  


GUTFELD:  The training involved in that.  

WILLINK:  Yes, when you get in those situations, all the mechanical things the guys are doing, they're like a basketball, like a football player.  
They're not thinking about that jump shot.  They're pulling the trigger and making it happen.  They don't have to think about it.  The decisions you make on the battlefield where you are actually maneuvering your troops, those take some thought, they take some instinct, they take some training, but that's why we have great leaders and great leadership training in the military.  

GUTFELD:  Right.

GUILFOYLE:  So we want to move on to something super exciting and I tell you the fantastic read, Extreme Ownership, this is their book.  I predict major national best-seller by these two fine gentlemen.  So not only did you serve on the battlefield, but you're giving back here by trying to partake -- you know, relaying information about leadership and what it takes.  And it's really a larger cultural issue about you know raising people to be responsible citizens, men or women, children, the traits and the characters that you need to be able to get ahead and do the right thing in life.  Tell us about the inspiration for the book and when you decided to do it.

WILLINK:  Well, we were -- while we were still in the military, we actually both ended up in positions where we were teaching leadership to the Junior SEALs.  And then, they ask us, hey, can you write some of that stuff down, and they take notes.  And we eventually assembled something decent for them.  And when we got out, we started working with civilian companies and teaching them leadership.  And of course, we got asked the same question hey, do you have this written down anywhere, could we have some reference material?  So we started writing it down and the next thing you know, we have this book.

GUILFOYLE:  And how was the process?   To be able to work so well together,
collaboratively, you work well together in the field in all the missions you had together -- you know, until Team 3 most decorated at that time in Iraq, the two of you trying to write a book.  How was it different?

BABIN:  It was a great experience.  We wanted to write this ourselves.  We want the nature of this -- the combat was never told in a humble manner.  
And the press illustrated was done in the right way.  Because if you can't we believe in this stuff, we're very passionate about it because we have seen it work in the battlefield, we have seen the difference that it can make.  And certainly now, in any arena.

ROGINSKY:  So I got to tell you, I read this book this weekend.  And I tremendously recommend it to everybody.  But what I took away from it is that you guys are fighting against an enabling culture.  We've basically become a culture of enablers.  You talked about how you go into companies, you talk about training SEALs, and that's great.  I actually thought about bringing you guys to talk to my kids' preschool.  


ROGINSKY:  I know you have a little guy, I do, too.  And to me, you have all these parents who are continually reading their kids, to enable them to constantly make excuses for what's going on.  I read this book and I thought, this is a book that parents should read.  Not just about how to train SEALs or about training companies, but really about training parents, have their kids take leadership because that's how you raise leaders.  And that's what exactly I took from it.  And I want to thank you because it kind of crystallized for me as a parent what you want to do to raise kids to be able to become guys like you, to actually take ownership of what you're doing.


BABIN:  Well, thank you.  I think the principles here because we've seen them work.  And we've actually had people tell us that we talk about extreme ownership, I had a client tell us that extreme ownership saved his marriage.


BABIN:  Because he was blaming things on his spouse, he was making excuses, and for his home behavior, and once he kind of (inaudible) what can I do to change the outcome, he did that.

GUILFOYLE:  What a great story.  We'll have a lot more of those anecdotes.


BOLLING:  Great leaders are made in the battle, in the field, adapting to different circumstances.  You guys went into Ramadi.  You probably didn't have training for an urban setting warfare like that.  Tell us about what it took and what you learned from that and how leaders are born in those settings.

WILLINK:  Well, we actually did have a pretty significant amount training in the urban combat.  And you know, when we got there and people kind of throwing us that we did the battle of Ramadi, it was actually 5,600 soldiers and marines along with us from the First Armor Division that were awesome.  And so what we did bring to the battle and what we did have to adapt to what how do we fit in with that other group, how do we support them, how to take what strategy they are using, and adapt it to what we're doing.  I think that's where we kind of made some progress and this is stuff that people haven't done before.  


WILLINK:  Support these giant conventional units, outgoing street to street in the battle of Ramadi, and you know, SEALs, we were out there, providing sniper over watch, and getting to areas where maybe they couldn't get to.  So we could protect them when they're moving through the city.  


GUTFELD:  I want to ask about the training because we were talking about this before, about this evolution of simulation is helping people learn how to fire better.  Are you worried about this in terms of the fact that every kid has this accessible to themselves?  They can go and get a video game and they can learn to shoot as well as anybody.  

WILLICK:  I don't know that I'm necessarily worried about it.  The military is now using video games, really nice, cool video games to train people.  
And so, it's an effective training tool.  It's very realistic.  I looked at some of those video games and they're awesome.  It's unbelievable.  


WILLICK:  I played pong, right? You guys may remember that.  



GUILFOYLE:  Now they have halo.  


WILLICK:  It's very, very realistic.  I believe it actually is good training.  

PERINO:  I just have one last question.  When you go to see civilian business leaders, what's their number one concern?  What are they trying to accomplish with their teams that they don't have without you as consultants coming in?

WILLICK:  I tell you, we have to look at each on a case by case basis.  
Because every company that we go into is different.  Now, we still find it's only half a dozen problems, you know.  They're not communicating, there's silos.  It's the basic thing people know, and we come in, we assess, we figure out where the real choke points are, and we help them get through those.  

PERINO:  Very cool.

GUILFOYLE:  I'm actually waiting for their next book.  Why not, right?  See how many people you can help.  It's a pleasure to have you both here, Jocko and Leif.  Thank you so much for joining us.  

WILLICK:  Thank you so much for having us.

BABIN:  Thank you so much for having us.

GUILFOYLE:  And you know what's coming, please go out and buy a copy of their fantastic new book Extreme Ownership and we hope you'll both join us again.  When we come back, we have a lot of stories we love to talk to you about.  

Next, a ton of news on the 2016 race talks about the Donald Trump's new attacks on some of his opponents and pledge that he will unite the country like no other.  Stay tuned.


BOLLING:  Donald Trump has opened up huge leads in New Hampshire and South Carolina.  He is however trailing Ben Carson in Iowa.  Let's just say it's making for some interesting campaign comments from the frontrunner.  


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE:  Bush is out there, his campaign is a disaster.  It's because I came along.  I'm proud of it.  So he's meeting now with mom and dad.  No, it's true.  He needs counsel.  And he was very angry over the week.  Here's a guy -- here's a guy who wants to run our country and he can't even run his own campaign.  

By the way, Carson has lower energy than Bush.  I don't get it.  I saw him being interviewed.  He's lower energy than Bush.  I'm Presbyterian.  Boy, that's down the middle of the road, folks, in all fairness.  I mean, Seventh Day Adventists I don't know about.  I just don't know about.  


BOLLING:  Tying Jeb Bush to the Bush family name seems to be working and playing on Ben Carson's mild demeanor is his strategy.  Time will tell if it will work for him.  Trump says in the end he will be a great uniter.  


TRUMP:  I'm being divisive right now because I know how to win.  I know how to win, that's what I have to do.  Ultimately, if I do win, I am going to be a great unifier, George.  I will be a great unifier for the country.  The country right now is terribly divided by a president that doesn't know how to lead and he's a very divisive person.  I will be a great unifier.  


BOLLING:  He's got the plan, KG.  

GUILFOYLE:  Yeah, well, I mean, he's being very I guess transparent by saying this is what I do.  I'm going to beat out and leg sweep out any of my opponents, I want to win this, and he is going to do it by whatever tactic that he feels necessary.  Again, let's see how it works and resonates, right?  So, it is low energy, now low-low energy.  I don't know.  
Everybody needs to beat 12 shots (ph).

BOLLING:  What do you think of the strategy tying Jeb to the Bush name and then talking about Ben Carson with a quite mild-mannered demeanor?

GUTFELD:  Don't mess with Ben Carson.  The man has a violent past.  


GUTFELD:  You're talking about when he was younger, how he tried to stab someone.  And I'm thinking that had to be a precursor to his profession as a surgeon.  Ever since he was young, he wanted to open people up.  I think the religious thing is a bit sad.  Remember, Trump isn't the first one to do this.  They did this to Mitt over Mormonism.  To please one side in religion, you have to trash another religion.  And that's the inherent contradiction with religion.  It exposes this contradiction that for one religion to be right, all the other ones have to be wrong.  So this doesn't help religion at all, and this is why, when you're running for office, I believe -- and this is why I'll never be elected because I'm not religious, you have to leave this stuff out of it.  You have to leave that out of it.  
It is like your team, don't leave your team out of this.  

BOLLING:  Didn't it work with Mitt?

GUILFOYLE:  It did work, exactly, it did.  And Mitt was a great man.

BOLLING:  And trump is going for the win.  

GUILFOYLE:  He still is.


GUTFELD:  He was a great man who that got screwed by that, same way that Ben Carson -- same way that Trump is trying to do Carson.  

BOLLING:  Dana, your thoughts on the double-handed strategy here.  

PERINO: Double-handed strategy.

BOLLING:  Well, one for Carson and one for Jeb.

PERINO:  Well, I take that point that trump thinks this is his strategy to win.  Because he's not doing as well in Iowa and he wants to win, he feels like he has to lash out.  Then he'll try to convince some people that he will then turn a corner once he's the nominee, and he will unite this nation and make it great again.  I think he has a lot way to go to try to convince people of that.  The other thing on the question when he says questions the Seventh Day Adventist.  And then later on when questioned about that, he says I'm just curious.  I'm just raising questions, but that's exactly what you do when you try to show some doubts.  The problem is in Iowa, that doesn't work.  OK.  The other thing is that I don't really understand Iowa.  Well, right, because if you are casting doubt on Fundamentalist Christian values in Iowa, then, yeah, you don't understand the state.  He could go on to win Iowa somehow by this tactic, but in my opinion, I think he's going down the wrong road there.  Maybe it will work for him in New Hampshire and South Carolina, but probably not Iowa.  

BOLLING:  Julie, I'm sorry, in New Hampshire and South Carolina, he is widely -- maybe he's saying, I'm not going to win Iowa, let's move on.  

ROGINSKY:  I get what he is saying.  He is going to win Iowa.  The pollsters apparently hate him, that's why.  Look, color me crazy, but I think once he becomes president, there's still fights you have to pick, whether with Congress or other people, it's not going to be Kumbaya.  If this is his tactic to win in the campaign trail, who is to say it is not going to be his tactic that when there's a bill in Congress that he doesn't like or people.


GUILFOYLE:  Or he's mean to Putin?

ROGINSKY:  Yeah, or he's mean to Putin or anybody else.  Exactly, being mean to Putin is one thing, I'm all for it.  But being mean to whoever the next Speaker of the House is because you're not happy about it, that's a whole different problem.  It's not going to change.  


PERINO:  He's actually nice to Putin.  


GUTFELD:  It's like me saying I'm going to be a vegetarian after this T- bone.  

BOLLING:  All right.  Over the week the news broke that the Jeb campaign staff was taking a pay cut to help keep the campaign alive.  The frustration is plain as day and the candidate has seen on this clip in the South Carolina Town Hall on Saturday.  


JEB BUSH, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE:  I don't want to be elected president to sit around and see gridlock just become so dominant that people literally decline in their lives.  That's not my motivation.  I have a lot of cool things to do other than sitting around, being miserable, listening to people demonize me and being compelled to demonize them.  That is a joke.  
Elect Trump if you want that.  If you want somebody who has a heart for people, who can fight for people, and can fix these things, then there are a couple other people, and I believe I'm the best one.  


BOLLING:  So, Dana, we'll go to you first on that.  Boy, I can't imagine a campaign adviser saying -- mentioning that you have cooler things to do than run for president.  

PERINO:  Maybe not, but you saw the reaction in the room.  Everyone sort of laughed and said, we get it.  He's speaking to an audience there.  I might not have said it, but I hear today that they feel like they've got some sort of strategy.  If you look across the board in the fall before the election, in fact, in 2011, the three frontrunners, became the nominee.  
All those guys that are bunched up, Jeb, Rubio, Cruz, Kasich, and maybe Christie, they're all sitting back there waiting to see what is going to happen.  Maybe history won't repeat itself, maybe one of the top three will end up being there.  But if not, one of those others are going to have to emerge.  

BOLLING:  A pay cut, right?  Pay cut is also relevant, a 40 percent pay cut across the board, that's saying something.  

GUTFELD:  It's saying that he's for limited government.  I like what he said there.  I mean, it was actually -- the interesting thing about this whole campaign, there is a couple things.  One is that it's amazing to see governors in trouble.  I would have expected that to be different, but what you're seeing is a human.  This is the most human campaign I've ever seen.  
You're actually seeing refreshing, unvarnished people, whether it is Trump or it's Jeb, or it's Ben Carson.  There is so much veneer being stripped off.  It's almost too much to take if you had one of these guys.  But you have a bunch of interesting characters here.  Even Lindsey Graham is interesting and provocative.  

GUILFOYLE:  You like Lindsey.  

GUTFELD:  I do.  


GUILFOYLE:  I have a lot for you, Bolling.


GUILFOYLE:  So here's the deal.  I like Jeb showing that passion.  You know what, that's who he is.  He's very talented.  He has a great record in Florida.  I don't mind him saying -- I understand what he was saying when he said I have other cool things to do.  Meaning he wants to run a real campaign, debate the issues, get what's going on in this country.  Good.  
People need to learn how to tighten their belts, make cuts in campaigns.  
When you're the frontrunner, and I've had to hire campaign staff before, if you want the best in the business and you're the frontrunner, and you're the honey pot, they all want top dollar for you to take them away from the candidates first before someone else gets them.  So if you look at some of those salaries across the board, they were very high, right?  Because this was like the top seed.  You want to get, like the starting five line-ups.  

BOLLING:  This is all working out just the way you want to.  

GUILFOYLE:  That's not what I said.  


GUILFOYLE:  It's because I have campaign experience.  It makes sense to me.

BOLLING:  I have cooler things to do than this.  


GUILFOYLE:  I told you what I thought about it.  And I don't have a problem with it, and I want someone who will be scrappy and I want someone to say OK, maybe I'm a little bit overextended.


ROGINSKY:  Here's the problem.  The problem is I get where he's coming from, I get his frustration.  I completely agree with you, Greg, that is a wrong unvarnished viewpoint.  But it comes across as, I don't really want to do this, I could do better things than this, but I'm here.  Why?  I'm here for all of you.  I'm here because I'm the best guy for the country.  
Why?  It comes across as it is not something that I think he meant for it to come across the way it did, but it comes across as a sense of entitlement where I'm doing this.


GUILFOYLE:  You think you know what he meant, though.  

ROGINSKY:  I know exactly what he meant.  


PERINO:  Trump said something similar like, I'm the only one who is actually losing here because if he will make all this money, I am the only one that had to take a pay cut.  I mean, then people like Trump really love that comment.  It's kind of the same thing.  

GUILFOYLE:  I agree with you.


BOLLING:  We got to go.  

Ahead, one of Hollywood's biggest hypocrites is flapping his mouth again.  
Director Quentin Tarantino calls murderers an anti-police rally this weekend.  Our reaction for that coming up.


GUTFELD:  Director Quentin Tarantino graced an anti-police protest in New York just days after our own Randolph Holder was killed by the kind of dirt bag Tarantino usually embraces in his flicks.  


QUENTIN TARANTINO, FILM DIRECTOR:  I'm a human being with a conscience, and when I see murder, I cannot stand by, and I have to call the murdered the murdered, and I have to call the murderers the murderers.  


GUTFELD:  What an ass.  

Once again, we see marches against cops, but rarely for, and led by pop culture parrots who make millions off violence.  For it's easy to glam up thuggery in the fantasy land when the violence can't touch you and when cops in real life protect you.  

Driving through one protest, I must say there's nothing like seeing white leftists shouting at black cops.  There's the racial divide Tarantino must ignore so his false assumptions remain intact.  

New York's a minority force, manned by blacks, Latinos, gays. Holder was from Guyana.  But in Quentin's world, they're all just white bigots who torture blacks in basements, just like in "Pulp Fiction."

See, Quentin is just a film nerd who wants the left to love him.  So he cultivates this outsider thing, but he knows absolutely nothing about crime.  His movies are comic books from the Fifties.

Remember "Reservoir Dogs," that long scene where the cop gets mutilated to the sounds of Stealer's Wheel?  To Quentin that's cool.  To a cop, it's torture porn.  

The police union urges a film boycott, but in this era of sanctuary cities, why not invite Quentin to set up a police-free community, where people like him can live and work without the benefit of cops. Carve out a small corner of Chicago where we can then place bets.  In that cop-free world, will it be Quentin's film or himself that gets shot first?



GUTFELD:  I have a strong theory on this; I believe it's correct.  I got this from a police captain.  


GUTFELD:  He did this, he went here, because he got some flak.  Quentin Tarantino got flak from black activists over his last movie "Django Unchained."

GUILFOYLE:  "Django Unchained," Yes.

GUTFELD:  This is his way of somehow getting his leftie credentials back.  
It was totally manufactured.

GUILFOYLE:  Well, it does seem that it's kind of filled with artifice.  
Like, what is his real motivation in going there?  It didn't seem to me that this was something of, like, a pure motive.  

First of all, I don't think he should have done this whatsoever.  I think it's disgraceful, especially in light of...

GUTFELD:  Four days after.

GUILFOYLE:  It's so out of touch with decency and respect.  

GUTFELD:  Four days after a New York City cop was shot and killed.  

GUILFOYLE:  Right.  And a guy, knowing that he has this kind of, you know, influence and reach with the popularity of his films, should -- should really have a little bit better of a moral compass about right and wrong and the influence that he might have.  

The type of presence that he has at showing up at something like this could, in fact, engender more violence towards police officers, and so he has to take that responsibility very seriously.  And I will not be seeing any more of his films.  

GUTFELD:  So you're going to go with a boycott.  

GUILFOYLE:  I'm not calling a boycott.  I'm exercising my free-market rights.

GUTFELD:  There you go.

GUILFOYLE:  And I will be spending my dollars.  It will be spent on hairspray instead.  

PERINO:  Good choice.

GUTFELD:  Dana, I know you're a huge Quentin Tarantino fan.

PERINO:  I actually did watch most of those movies that you just mentioned.  

GUTFELD:  Really?  Interesting.

PERINO:  With my hands over my eyes.  

GUILFOYLE:  Dana, you don't like suspense like that.  

PERINO:  I don't like suspense or violence.  

GUTFELD:  It's interesting, though, I got stuck in the -- in the march on the way home from work on Saturday, and it was amazing to see the people shouting at police.  The police are protecting the shouters.  They're there to keep them from getting hurt, and you have -- and all I saw were white leftists with backpacks shouting at black and Hispanic and female cops.  

PERINO:  And as I understand it, reading the coverage from the reporters that were down there, that the cops stood there face to face, did not turn their backs...


PERINO:  ... and just took it.  

And the curious thing is, where is the source of this organization coming from?  Because it was four days after the NYPD officer was killed.  It wasn't like there was some sort of event...


PERINO:  ... that made them want to spontaneously protest on a Saturday.  
This obviously was something that was planned...

GUTFELD:  Planned.  It was three days.

PERINO:  ... for quite some time.  

GUTFELD:  It was three days.  Eric, let's play Sheriff Clarke, because it's always interesting.  

GUILFOYLE:  I love him.  


SHERIFF DAVID CLARKE, MILWAUKEE COUNTY:  I don't know why the police even bother policing those demonstrations.  They're not protests.  Those people advocate for the overthrow of our illegally constituted government.  

Let them fend for themselves.  Let the good, law-abiding people of New York clash with them for disrupting their lives, disrupting their businesses.  
Then the police can show up and arrest these subhuman creeps for creating a disturbance.  


GUTFELD:  He calls them subhuman creeps.  

BOLLING:  Sheriff Clarke nails it.  And there was a back and forth with -- with Wheeler that -- it's worth watching, but Sheriff Clark stayed on it.  

A couple quick stats.  The FBI came out and said that all the anti-cop sentiment lately is increasing the violence towards cops, so blood on your hands, Quentin Tarantino.  


BOLLING:  And the others.  And also, of the 800 people who were killed by cops last year, 725 of them had guns.  So these -- this isn't just random cop finding a guy, and wanting to shake him down and kill him.  They're actually feeling a threat, and they're responding to the threat.  So know the facts.  Know your numbers before you go and protest a cop.  

GUTFELD:  If only they -- if only the numbers were important.  

Julie, they had a stop the cops thing in Chicago.  How about stop the gangs?  Wouldn't that make more sense?

ROGINSKY:  It would make sense.  


GUTFELD:  ... shooting.

ROGINSKY:  I have to say, I'd boycott Quentin Tarantino, but I've been boycotting him since 1994.  I was the only person in America that hated "Pulp Fiction."  Still disturbed by it.  

BOLLING:  A great movie.

ROGINSKY:  I know, I know, I know, I know.  I've been hearing it for 20 years.

GUILFOYLE:  I only liked "Kill Bill."

ROGINSKY:  All of them.

GUTFELD:  "Kill Bill" was great.

ROGINSKY:  OK, well, I haven't seen them to worry (ph).

GUTFELD:  This is becoming a pro-Quentin segment.

ROGINSKY:  Too bad that I really want to hear who's actually anti-Quentin Tarantino and has a 20-year record of being that way.  

I agree.  You know, what frustrates me about this is there are clearly bad apples in every batch, right?  So there are one or two or three bad cops.  
It doesn't mean you have to tarnish an entire police department.  

And I have to say, Quentin Tarantino said it.  He said, "Well, we would have canceled this because of the shooting in New York, but all these people had already made plans to fly out."  Well, you know what?  You're Quentin Tarantino.  Send them back.  You've got the money to do it.

GUTFELD:  Exactly.

ROGINSKY:  Take a break.  Take some time off.

GUTFELD:  Yes, go catch a musical.  You're in New York City.

PERINO:  Support the local theater.

GUTFELD:  Exactly.  All right.  Next, some news Kimberly is not going to like.  Yes.  It has to do with some of her favorite foods and mine, as well.  But is it all just a bunch of bologna?  Pun.

GUTFELD:  I hope so.  Is it?


PERINO:  All right, it's happened again.  There's a new warning issued about food most of us have been eating all of our lives.  What are we supposed to stay away from this time?  Hot dogs, ham, bacon and other processed meats.  This is the World Health Organization, because it says that those meats cause cancer.  

One person who likely won't be changing her diet any time soon, the world's oldest woman, 116-year-old Susannah Mushatt Jones, who recently revealed her secret to longevity: bacon every morning.  

And K.G., that was your "One More Thing" a couple weeks ago, because you were relieved to hear.

GUILFOYLE:  Right.  And she's my hero, and so I've got to, like, beat her, like live to 120 or something like that.  But, I mean, they're just so tasty.  How can you stay away?

PERINO:  And that is a concern.  So the World Health Organization, and this was not a unanimous ruling, but it did go well beyond some of the probable cause of cancer, to -- they actually went (ph) to cause cancer.  
And Eric, the pork industry is $95 billion for processed meat in the United States.  

GUILFOYLE:  Oh, my God.

BOLLING:  Yes.  And you're talking to a guy who hasn't had one bite of any of those.

PERINO:  Are you dying right now?

BOLLING:  I'm dying.  You put it right...

PERINO:  It smells so good?

BOLLING:  It smells amazing.  You know Americans eat 71 pounds of processed meat per year per capita?  

PERINO:  And we are awesome.

BOLLING:  Seventy-one.  I mean, so if nothing else, maybe just cut it back to, say, a pound a week.  

PERINO:  What do you think?  Are you buying any of this, health expert?

GUILFOYLE:  No, he's eating.  

GUTFELD:  What did the pig say when he was made into ham?  

GUILFOYLE:  Oink, oink.

GUTFELD:  "I'm cured."  I just made that up.  

PERINO:  Wow.  

GUTFELD:  The amazing thing about bacon, it's so good that pigs eat it.  If you cook bacon, the pig will eat it.  It's so good.  It really is.  And by the way...

PERINO:  Is that really an endorsement?  

GUTFELD:  The good news is...

GUILFOYLE:  Yes.  It's so good they eat themselves.  I can understand that.  

GUTFELD:  ... cancer is declining as we live longer.  We should know that the fact is your risk for cancer goes up as you cure other diseases.  It's a disease that happens as you live longer.  You want to hear another fun fact?


GUTFELD:  Do you know you're more likely to live to 80 if you live to 70?

PERINO:  Yes, I did know that.  


PERINO:  Little-known (ph) fact.

Julie, do you remember a couple weeks ago the government told us that they had been remiss in telling all of us to have non-fat milk for 20 years and that whole milk is actually really good for you and actually probably better for your health?

ROGINSKY:  You know what?  I really don't care about milk, but I'm telling you something.  If it's a choice between death and no bacon, I will take death.  Kill me now.  

GUILFOYLE:  You like bacon in your drinks.  

ROGINSKY:  I love -- oh, yes.  

PERINO:  Really?

ROGINSKY:  Oh, yes . There's this place called Bacon -- a place in New York called PDT.  Excuse me as I shove this bacon in my mouth.  It's got a bacon-infused Manhattan.  It is the best drink ever.  Amazing.  

GUILFOYLE:  And if you've ever had a bloody Mary with a nice big piece of bacon in it, so yummy.  

BOLLING:  You guys are killing me.


BOLLING:  Twenty-five years.  

I just did the math on that.  That's a 100 percent probability of what you're saying.  

GUTFELD:  It is.

PERINO:  All right.  I am telling you, by the end of 2016, we're going to get Eric to eat red meat.  

BOLLING:  This year?

GUTFELD:  Instead of throwing it.

PERINO:  2016.  

BOLLING:  We can do a bet on the election.  

PERINO:  Yes, but then how long do you want it to go, because I know you really want to have a hamburger.  

GUILFOYLE:  How about just, like, eat in moderation?

PERINO:  Yes, eat in moderation.

I think that there is a bigger conspiracy here anyway by the World Health Organization.  And it all has to do with...

BOLLING:  What's it got to do with?

PERINO:  ... climate change.  Global warming.

GUTFELD:  Right.

PERINO:  This is all, like, there's a big push against any sort of animal consumption.  

BOLLING:  Fewer animals?  Push the vegan?

PERINO:  Yes.  

GUTFELD:  Reduce our carbon hoofprint, as they say.

PERINO:  God.  That's right.

GUTFELD:  Because all methane from the cattle.

PERINO:  That's right.

GUTFELD:  They're constantly breaking wind.  

GUILFOYLE:  OK, here we go.

GUTFELD:  Instead of, like, not eating, just give them Beano.  That's what my wife does for me.  

GUILFOYLE:  You know what?  God.  Hit the tease.

PERINO:  All right.  It's a mile -- a laugh a minute here.

Today is Hillary Clinton's birthday, so happy birthday to her.  And she got a big present this weekend from singer Katy Perry to help her with her campaign in Iowa.  That's coming up next.



ROGINSKY:  Hillary Clinton held a rally in Iowa this weekend, and a special guest showed up to get -- help the crowd get roaring.  No pun intended there.  


KATY PERRY, SINGER:  And I march with Hillary.  I believe in her future, her vision.  I believe in her policies.  I believe in equal rights for men, women, pay.  

(singing):  It's always been inside of you.  The power is inside of you

(speaking):  Let's hear it for Hillary!

(singing):  Baby, you're a firework.


GUILFOYLE:  Ai, yi, yi.  Wow.

ROGINSKY:  Katy Perry performed some of her biggest hits for the crowd.  
She also took over Hillary Clinton's Instagram account for the day, posting selfies for the candidate.  

Today's Clinton's 68th birthday.  

Do you think she's posing for a clairvoyant picture in Times Square?  What is that thing on her head?

GUTFELD:  I don't know.  It's very strange.  You know who's really excited about this, obviously, is Bill Clinton, because this is a great endorsement, because Bill and Hillary are a package deal.  And Bill is all about the package.  


GUILFOYLE:  Oh, my God.

ROGINSKY:  So, Dana -- I'm not laughing at that one.  I'm offended on every level.  

GUTFELD:  I don't even know what I said.  

GUILFOYLE:  I do.  I'll tell you later.  

PERINO:  This is great for Hillary because one of the things that she's lacking is relatability.  Remember, the campaign said you're going to see more heart, more light, more fun from Hillary Clinton.  She needs help.  
She's got a lot of people in Hollywood.  

You know, if conservatives were acceptable in Hollywood, you might see one of them willing to campaign with someone who has their brain -- head screwed on straight.  Nobody -- but you can't find one, actually, in Hollywood.  And they should -- well, there's, like, a few.  

There's a few.  I mean, there's not many.  

GUTFELD:  Right.

ROGINSKY:  Kid Rock.

PERINO:  Not Hollywood.  And that says something smart about him, right?   
That's where he decides to live.

ROGINSKY:  He's amazing (ph).

PERINO:  I also feel like for Hillary Clinton, this makes her more likeable.  Right?  That picture on Instagram was more meaningful than just about anything.  

ROGINSKY:  I think it's actually...

PERINO:  The holding hands and walking away, that was sort of reminiscent of when they went on that little beach trip.  

ROGINSKY:  I think it's actually making her appeal to a younger demographic...


ROGINSKY:  ... and kind of underscores the whole vote.  The problem the Republicans keep talking about is she's too old, she's last generation.  
And here you have Katy Perry who I know nothing about, but the kids tell me is, like, a big deal.  

GUILFOYLE:  Well, she -- Katy Perry is a pretty amazing performer and artist.  You know, as a political spokesperson, not so much.  

GUTFELD:  Yes, she married Russell Brand.

GUILFOYLE:  I don't -- like, yes.  But then she divorced him.  She woke up.

Wearing the flag, I don't like that, though, on her back.  And -- I don't know.

ROGINSKY:  It's interesting, Eric.  I would have actually saved this for closer to the caucuses, because the whole point is to get people to show up to vote for you.  

PERINO:  Oh, she'll be back.

BOLLING:  Yes.  No...

ROGINSKY:  Do you think she'll be back?  You think this is...

PERINO:  Taylor Swift is going to be back, which is rarer (ph).

BOLLING:  She's been -- she's been a very active Democrat supporter.  
Remember, she wore the President Obama ballot last time...

GUTFELD:  Right.

BOLLING:  ... as a dress with, you know, check the box for President Obama.  
So no surprise she's a big Democrat, but I thought it was funny.  "Equal rights, men, women, pay."


BOLLING:  What?  


BOLLING:  She can sing, though.  She definitely can sing, no question about that.  

ROGINSKY:  All right.  For sure.  "One More Thing" is up next.  


GUILFOYLE:  It's time now for "One More Thing," and I'm going to kick it off.  

The 40th Marine Corps Marathon was held yesterday in Washington, D.C., and one of the runners was 18-year-old Seamus Donahue.  His father, Major Michael Donahue, was in the Army's 82nd Airborne Division.  He was killed in Kabul, Afghanistan, on September 16 of last year.  

Seamus and his dad always had a special bond through running.  And he honored his father by running the marathon.  

When the race was over, he walked from the finish line to Arlington National Cemetery, and he placed his medal on his father's grave.  A salute to all the brave men and women of our armed forces and to all of our veterans, God bless.  


PERINO:  If you ever have a chance to go and be a spectator at that -- at the Marine Corps Marathon, you will see the most amazing thing, because all the troops, they are there, actually, to hand out water and food and bananas, and they do all of it themselves.  It is so inspiring.  So if you have a chance, go and check them out.  

All right.  I wrote a piece today.  It's on  It's about Peggy Noonan's new book.  You know, I'm a huge fan of Peggy Noonan.  

GUILFOYLE:  Me, too.

PERINO:  This is a collection.  It's called "The Time of Our Lives."  It is a treasure of a book.  It comes out November 3.  And it's a collection of her work with an original essay that will knock your socks off.  So check out my little pre-review, book review.

Also, I just have to thank Joyce Hall, because she made this beautiful cross-stitch.  This is all cross-stitch.  


PERINO:  "Dog of the Year," Jasper, "TIME."  And she wrote him a fabulous poem, as well.  So thank you, Joyce Hall of Mineola, New York.  

GUILFOYLE:  That's really well done.

PERINO:  I love it.

GUILFOYLE:  Very impressive.  Greg.

GUTFELD:  All right.  No dog here, but my book, "How to Be Right," comes out tomorrow.  This is the audio book.  

PERINO:  It's a little one.  

GUTFELD:  It's for a little person.  And tonight, I'm going to be -- I'm leaving this show, jumping into a car and going to Huntington, New York, to The Book Revue to sign books.  I'm going to do a little talk.  So if you're in Long Island, stop by.  I'll be there about 8 p.m., 8:15, depending on traffic.  Buy this book.  Starts at midnight.

PERINO:  We can find you on the GPS.

GUILFOYLE:  People should go.  That's a great event, great venue.  You're going to be super excited.

PERINO:  And you're going to be in a good mood?

GUTFELD:  No, I'll be in a bad mood.  I might be drunk.  

GUILFOYLE:  Oh, my God.  

ROGINSKY:  Excellent.  Well, "Jeopardy" got a little political last night.  
Check it out.


ALEX TREBEK, HOST, "JEOPARDY":  The flower pictured here is called this, also a disparaging term for people on the political left.  

You have -- you may have found a way to insult liberals in this country.  Let's take a look at your response.  "What is a pansy?"


GUTFELD:  Correct!

ROGINSKY:  Actually, the term is a bleeding heart, but pansy is -- pansy is a good one, too.  They should have given her the credit for it.  I say this as a bleeding heart liberal myself.  

BOLLING:  She should have gotten double points for that.

GUILFOYLE:  Or pinko.  Anyway, OK.  Eric, what do you got?

BOLLING:  So last night -- you know, Dallas is having a tough time.  Tony Romo went down four games ago, their own frustrations abound.  The Giants took them to the woodshed last night.  

GUILFOYLE:  Woo-hoo!

BOLLING:  But watch the frustration on Greg Hardy.  Remember, this is the guy who was suspended for some altercations with his girlfriend.  So look, he has a back and forth with Dez Bryant right there.  

And then this.  This is what is absolutely unacceptable.  If you see it right there, he take -- he goes after the coach.  He slaps the clipboard out of his -- remember, guys, kids are watching this game.

GUILFOYLE:  Yes, this is terrible behavior.

BOLLING:  This is why -- that guy had his -- that's his second shot at redemption, and he's blown it.

PERINO:  Any consequences?  

GUILFOYLE:  Set your DVR so you never miss an episode of "The Five."

BOLLING:  We'll see (ph).

GUILFOYLE:  That's it for us.  "Special Report" is next.  

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