Hillary Clinton releases TV ad attacking the Benghazi committee

They're both full of meatballs


This is a rush transcript from "The Five," October 6, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Greg Gutfeld along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Eric Bolling and a feather is her hammock, Dana Perino -- "The Five."

There are two things you can count on in life: A lapdog media that will do anything to cover up a Democrat scandal and a Republican screw-up that will help a lapdog media do anything to cover up a Democrat scandal.

Thanks to Kevin McCarthy, Hillary has a new ad and a new out.


NARRATOR: Republicans finally admit it.

ANDREA MITCHELL, NBC NEWS: Republican Kevin McCarthy, saying the committee investigating Benghazi and Clinton's emails was created to destroy her candidacy.

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY, REPUBLICAN LEADER: Everybody thought Hillary Clinton was unbeatable, right? But we put together a Benghazi special committee. What are her numbers today?

NARRATOR: Republicans have spent millions attacking Hillary because she's fighting for everything they oppose.


GUTFELD: My word. Republicans are out to get Hillary. Please. Clinton accusing someone of being political, it's like Bernie Sanders making fun of Trump's hair. This is the lady who kicked off birtherism. By the way, didn't some world leader just say it was OK to politicize tragedy?

But McCarthy's gaffe reminds us that the Republicans are like an IKEA cafeteria: full of meatballs. Instead of being persuasively right, McCarthy revealed political spite and the path to who pushed the video now detours to the freshly painted target on his own party's back. Too bad he can't blame that on a movie.

But let's not forget that it was Hillary who first politicized Benghazi. Rather than blame Islamists, she found a fake scapegoat in a video that nobody saw. McCarthy was right: The Benghazi hearings did hurt her numbers. But he could have said Hillary did something really bad, so her numbers should drop.

So we still have a liar who falsely blamed a planned attack on a video. After that, a profound ignorance of national security in this age of cyber-terror, you have a smug someone who failed to see how dangerous she really is. McCarthy's answer was dumb, but unlike Hillary's actions, it wasn't harmful. Well, unless it gets her elected. That's a problem.

How does this affect the investigation, K.G.? You're a prosecutor.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Yeah, the -- shrug it off.

GUTFELD: Shrug it off?

GUILFOYLE: Rub some dirt on it, Benghazi panel and move forward. I mean, I wouldn't sweat this at all because it doesn't matter. When you're in pursuit of the truth and you're seeking justice, it doesn't matter with one of the other representatives say, "Honestly, I don't think so." Because the outcome and the eventual determination of findings that are made, that's what's going to carry the day. So this is the best thing you have that you can do, she ran down to like, you know print the tape and run with it to make a commercial. It doesn't change, doesn't change who she is, doesn't change the fact that she's not transparent. The only reason that she can claim this is because nobody else has been investigated so many times.


GUTFELD: Eric, where -- this is.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: That was a good Hillary.

GUTFELD: Yeah, it was. It was.

GUILFOYLE: I love it, but I would follow it by a wild cackling laugh.

GUTFELD: She should do. Yeah, she should do a Hillary imitating Trump.


GUTFELD: That will be -- that's quite some move.

GUILFOYLE: That's a big lock (ph) baby.

GUTFELD: Bolling, does this effectively remove McCarthy from contention?

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Apparently, it doesn't, but I think it should. I think there's has been -- the big mistake. McCarthy made was -- all right, so now Speaker Boehner says, "I'm stepping down, stepping aside" and everyone says who is it going to be, Majority Leader McCarthy? Who's gonna be? Is it gonna be Trey Gowdy? Is it gonna be Chaffetz? Step up by in his haste, he ran to the microphone. He went right to the TV cameras to say, "I'm the right guy for the job." And when pressed on something so important, he fails, he drops the ball. He gives them a get out -- he gives Hillary a -- get out of Benghazi for free card on a silver platter. She's smart. Hillary Clinton is smart. She used it, but she's trying to turn it. Benghazi hearings are the reason why we know about e-mails. She's trying to say, "Well, because it was -- they were done under a false pretense,"


BOLLING: "Of politics that we should move along with the Benghazi hearings and move on." However, when you do have hearings and you do you put someone on the stand, and they raise their right hand and kind of swear, kind of swear to being honest, you don't have to be honest, but you kind of do, a lot of times you get information and that got the e-mail scandal going. So yes, continue, go forward. If you're smart republicans, you don't elect McCarthy as your next speaker.

GUTFELD: Well, Dana. Chris Cillizza, who I believe.


GUTFELD: Cillizza. Who cares?

PERINO: Cillizza.

GUTFELD: I don't know, Cillizza.

PERINO: Cillizza.

GUTFELD: Liza Minnelli.

PERINO: Yeah, Liza, I know him.


GUTFELD: He says McCarthy's mistake is exactly HRC needed, what Hillary needed. This is going to save her, exaggeration, wishful thinking?

PERINO: They're all hoping so, right?


PERINO: Here's the thing, I think that Hillary played it wrong. I understand that what she, what she did because that's in her nature. She's like, "OK now, I can be the victim." The thing is I think she should have said, "I'm not afraid of the Benghazi panel, happy to talk about it because I did nothing wrong there.


PERINO: Boom, serious, done because the hearing is going to happen. And remember, the federal investigations, four or five of them that we know of, are about her e-mail server. The only reason you know about the e-mail server is because the select committee on Benghazi was doing its work and they come across a discrepancy. Kimberly, as you know, when you find a discrepancy in an investigation, you follow that down. Where do you -- you follow that down right to the fact that the problem is her judgment on several things and possibly, even illegal activity with the private e-mail server. So she can complain about the Benghazi committee all she wants to. I actually think she would be better served by going there, being smart, testifying well, rather than trying to play the victim because the only one she has to blame for this is herself.

GUTFELD: You know Juan, I'm gonna blow your mind.



GUTFELD: Her allies claim.

GUILFOYLE: Her claim.

GUTFELD: That the e-mail scandal is hurting her because you don't know about her policy plans. I would argue that, that saving her because you don't want to hear about her national security plans because they're incompetent disasters.

WILLIAMS: What plans are you referring to?

GUTFELD: Well, judging from her past, they will be incompetent.

WILLIAMS: Oh, I see. You're just forget, you know this is.

GUTFELD: Yeah, it blow your mind, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Well it is, because I don't even know what to say to it because I have nothing to base my response on. But I must say, watching this table go.

GUTFELD: Go around.

WILLIAMS: Oh, you guys, you guys are flailing today.

GUTFELD: Juan, this is what you do.


GUTFELD: You never have an answer.


WILLIAMS: Oh, I'll give you an answer.

GUTFELD: No, that's what you do.


GUTFELD: You would go, watching this table.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

GUTFELD: Watching this table.

WILLIAMS: Look at it. You guys don't even have -- normally, the conservatives and the republicans have a consistent answer. But oh no, today, we are taking all sorts of contortions, going through all sorts of conniptions.

PERINO: And they were all brilliant.


WILLIAMS: Conniptions because you know why? There have been seven hearings, right? She's testified multiple times. We've had an accountability board, we've had David Petraeus of the CIA tells us all, that the initial intelligence was about a video. But Dana now says, "Oh no." So now it's led to the e-mails.

PERINO: I know what?

WILLIAMS: So let's just follow up on the e-mails.

PERINO: I still want to know how --


PERINO: Why she thought.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

PERINO: That it was OK to perp walk a guy.


PERINO: In California.

WILLIAMS: Right, perp walks.


PERINO: He was making a video that had nothing to do with it.


PERINO: Perp walked him in the middle of the night. Then she tells the victim's family.

WILLIAMS: Oh my, gosh. You can.

PERINO: They did tell the victim's family.

WILLIAMS: You can shut me down, Miss Perino, but you know.

PERINO: Oh, Juan.

WILLIAMS: That that's not true.

GUTFELD: Well that's not an answer, Juan.

PERINO: No, that is -- that actually is true, Benghazi (inaudible).

GUTFELD: That is not an answer.

WILLIAMS: The truth, the truth is not the answer?

GUTFELD: No, Juan. Juan.

PERINO: If that is true, Benghazi (inaudible).

GUTFELD: If you looked at the video before it became famous, like 30 people had watched it.

WILLIAMS: No, no, no.

GUTFELD: It used as a scapegoat.

WILLIAMS: This is a fact. So in other words, there have been investigations, there have been congressional hearings and everybody, CIA comes back and says, you look at Egypt, Tunisia, Yemen, people were watching the videos that we think that it was like.

PERINO: It's Yemen.

GUTFELD: But yeah.

PERINO: No. That's really not.


GUTFELD: Well it depends. There's a bar called Yaman.



GUILFOYLE: Yaman, it's like chick fillet man (ph).


GUILFOYLE: You're the one flailing all over the place.

BOLLING: Reduce the significance of e-mail scandal.


PERINO: That's true.

BOLLING: How it was -- how it started?

WILLIAMS: I don't know there's scandal.


WILLIAMS: There's a scandal again.

BOLLING: Under what pretense that the information was called.

WILLIAMS: Again, you guys are delighting in the thought that there might be a scandal. But there is no.

PERINO: You is the one that.

GUILFOYLE: No. No, Juan. Juan, this is you with the jazz hands.

WILLIAMS: No. nobody has.

GUILFOYLE: Juan's got jazz hands today.

WILLIAMS: Let me just say. Nobody has been charge with.

GUTFELD: It's time for sound on tape. Because let's look back in the past and to see what Hillary actually had to say and why she might have said the video, let's go.


HILLARY CLINTON, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Some have sought to justify this vicious behavior, along with the protest that took place at our embassy in Cairo yesterday, as a response to inflammatory material posted on the internet.

The United States government had absolutely nothing to do with this video. We absolutely reject its content and message.

We've seen rage and violence directed at American embassies over an awful internet video that we had nothing to do with.


GUTFELD: There you go, there's the proof.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. That's the problem. So you know, so you can expect more of this test-a-lying. I'm sure when she gets in front of the committee.


GUILFOYLE: I mean, really. This is like a loose relationship with the truth. She sat up there and knew that what she was saying was untrue and she spewed it forward anyway. And she lied to the families, and she lied to the American people, and that should matter.

BOLLING: You know what's the most disturbing of all of those was when she's at the air force base.

PERINO: Yup. I agree.

BOLLING: With the caskets.

GUILFOYLE: The bodies, yeah.

BOLLING: The caskets draped in an American flag and she still knowing that she was putting out a lie, a mistruth, whatever you want to call it.

WILLIAMS: I don't know what lie?

BOLLING: In front of those dead bodies and the families.

WILLIAMS: What are you talking about?

BOLLING: What do you not understand about that?

GUILFOYLE: She blames it on a video.


BOLLING: It wasn't the video, it was.

WILLIAMS: Let me just say.

BOLLING: And she called it a protest in response to the video, and at that point, we all now know, she knew it was different.


WILLIAMS: You guys can shout into the canyon and hear your own voices until, you know, the dogs come in. However, Dana likes.


WILLIAMS: To put it.

GUILFOYLE: Because the truth that goes back beautifully, Juan.

WILLIAMS: But the fact is if you go to people that you would consider beyond reproach. David Petraeus, James Clapper, director of national intelligence.

BOLLING: Clapper?

WILLIAMS: Yeah, Mike Morrell of CIA. They all say the same thing, they testify. You go.

BOLLING: Twisting the truth.

PERINO: That it was the video?

WILLIAMS: You go to Michael McMullan. You go to Ambassador Thomas Pickering.


WILLIAMS: They all say the same thing. And you guys like, oh no, let's have another investigation because it will bring down Hillary's numbers.


WILLIAMS: Oh my, gosh.

GUTFELD: I love that, but don't you.

GUILFOYLE: Oh my, gosh.

GUTFELD: What's wrong? I mean, I think President Obama made this very clear. What is wrong with politicizing something, if it brings justice? Isn't that what is about?

WILLIAMS: Oh, is justice -- is justice?

GUTFELD: In Oregon, right? We have to politicize something.

WILLIAMS: Oh yeah.

GUTFELD: To bring justice?

WILLIAMS: I agree.

GUTFELD: So this is just like -- the derogatory term would be a witch-hunt. What if it's legitimate?

WILLIAMS: What if it's legitimate?

GUTFELD: What if it's not? What if it's actually there's something there, Juan?

WILLIAMS: Like what?

GUTFELD: Out of with-hunt.

WILLIAMS: Scuttling Hillary Clinton's campaign?

GUTFELD: She's deceptive, she lied.

GUILFOYLE: Oh come on.


GUTFELD: And then now we find out everything about her e-mails.

GUILFOYLE: You care about ethics, Juan.


GUILFOYLE: You should care about the truth, about America lives.

WILLIAMS: I do, that's what actually happens.

GUILFOYLE: He is Ms. D (ph).

WILLIAMS: I just can't believe that people would use American lives for political purpose.

PERINO: Whoa, that's.

GUTFELD: Didn't President Obama just said, -- say he was gonna politicize - - that's good to politicize tragedy.

WILLIAMS: No, no. He said - what he said was in response to the NRA, having politicized guns.

GUTFELD: And response to Hillary Clinton.

WILLIAMS: He said it was necessary.

GUTFELD: Politicizing Benghazi.


GUTFELD: That she.

WILLIAMS: She didn't politicize Benghazi.

GUTFELD: She blamed it on a video to escape blame.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, that's what the intelligence showed.

GUTFELD: No, no, no. That's put she want it.

PERINO: Juan, I said -- I really do think you need to go back and look at that.


PERINO: That is actually not.

WILLIAMS: Not only did I look at it, Dana.


WILLIAMS: Dana, we can read an accountability review board study. We can go back and look at seven congressional hearings.

PERINO: That says that the video caused.

WILLIAMS: Initially, that was the.

PERINO: No, but that.

WILLIAMS: Intelligence, Dana.

PERINO: When it came back -- don't you remember when they said that they've come back and said they were pressured to change the talking points?

BOLLING: Oh yeah.

WILLIAMS: Oh my, gosh.

PERINO: We know that from the National Security Council.

GUTFELD: It did.



WILLIAMS: They were not pressure to change.

PERINO: I'm not making this up.

GUTFELD: Read Steve Hayes. Read your colleague Steve Hayes.

WILLIAMS: Yes. Oh I love Steve Hayes, but I'm going to tell you that nobody has come back and said there was a cover-up. People have said you know.

GUTFELD: There should have a manipulation of talking points.

WILLIAMS: We should have done more in terms of security in Benghazi.

GUILFOYLE: You can't deny that. They manipulated the talking points.

WILLIAMS: No -- yeah, but it wasn't.

GUILFOYLE: That there was something they act -- they act or not.

WILLIAMS: They were just trying to make -- cover their tails in terms of (inaudible).

PERINO: And that's OK?

GUILFOYLE: Is that OK, Juan?

GUTFELD: Thank you.


GUTFELD: Thank you.


PERINO: You just made our point.


GUILFOYLE: Oh my, gosh.

WILLIAMS: Your point is about the death of four people, Dana. That's not what we're talking about.

PERINO: No, but you just said that it's OK for them to politicize it.


PERINO: To cover their rear ends.

WILLIAMS: No. no. I did not. Is aid that.

PERINO: To put blame some of the things that didn't happen.

WILLIAMS: The changes that were made.

GUILFOYLE: You called it the politics.

WILLIAMS: That was coming out of the White House in terms of the statements. And remember, the Sunday talking story.

PERINO: Right.

WILLIAMS: That's all we're talking about. We're not talking about anything of substance here.

GUILFOYLE: Well, we are.

PERINO: I actually am.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, so I'm not sure. They just -- yeah.

WILLIAMS: It's not, it's not the fact.

GUILFOYLE: I don't know. We're going to have to call Bret Baier and.

PERINO: Do you wonder how you can fill that block?

GUTFELD: Yes. That was fun. OK, the commander of our forces in Afghanistan is challenging the president's plan to pull our troops out. General John Campbell's warning, when The Five returns.


BOLLING: While we're seeing the consequences of President Obama's failed strategy in Syria, Russia and Iran has stepped in to cause new problems while ISIS grows stronger. Perhaps, Actor Rupert Friend of Homeland can reenact this scene for our administration from Sunday night's premier. He plays Quinn, a CIA operative, just back from Syria, briefing his superiors.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Assad is still in power. ISIL is still growing. Are we really getting anywhere in Syria?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said the program should be renewed, I'm asking is our strategy working?

FRIEND: What strategy? Tell me what the strategy is, I'll tell you if it's working.

See, that right there is the problem, because they, they have a strategy. They call it the end times. What do you think the beheadings are about? Crucifixions and their (inaudible), the revival of slavery, you think they make this (beep) up? It's all in the book. The (beep) book, the only book they read, they read it all the time. They never stop. They're there for one reason and one reason only -- to die for the caliphate and usher in a world without infidels. That's their strategy. And it's been that way since the 7th century. So you really think that a few Special Forces teams are going to put a dent in that?


BOLLING: All right, so.


BOLLING: Kimberly, but why is it that a Homeland on HBO shows.

GUTFELD: Showtime.

PERINO: Showtime.

BOLLING: Showtime series can nail it in a minute in our administration with all the smartest minds in the world, military minds, they can't figure out an effective strategy.

GUILFOYLE: Because the wrong person is in the House, the White House.

BOLLING: I like this, Juan -- she's right. It's not a question of generals.

GUILFOYLE: It's true.

BOLLING: Do you leave it up to the generals? I'm sure they have a serious strategy.


WILLIAMS: They did have strategy, but the generals would come up with a strategy.

BOLLING: Right. Why can't.

WILLIAMS: And the strategy would be totally unmilitary effort and it would succeed in stamping out the footprint of ISIL, ISIS, whatever they call it on the show, right now. But the question is would it then regenerate? Because just like Kimberly said, they've been -- or the show said, they've been around since the 7th century, right?

GUILFOYLE: That's right, so.

WILLIAMS: And so they're reading the same Koran, they have the same goals, and they would just see more. So, the Obama folks say we need to do something that's going to somehow deal with this ideology, that's so poisonous, but the fact is, I mean, they're on the ground and Russia.

GUILFOYLE: They don't have battle fatigue or mission fatigue or not what about mission creep. They are.

WILLIAMS: Yeah because they're.

GUILFOYLE: Very decidedly focused in their purpose of what they would like to achieve.

WILLIAMS: They're crazed.

GUILFOYLE: And the caliphate -- whoa, you know what? They're focused and we're like, "Man, let's see. We're going to get back to the red line today and maybe not tomorrow."

BOLLING: Can I bring over here, 13 -- Quinn points out 1300 years they've been fighting this battle -- this war in the Middle East.


PERINO: Right. So then -- if you go back to 9/11, that begins what is, you know -- President Bush at the time called a global war on terror - and a generational war in sense of like tries to explain to the American people for eight years that this is not going to be something that we can solve in the next 10 years. This is -- you try to set up America to understand that this is going to take a long time. When President Obama comes into office, one of the first things he does is to figure out, OK, how do we start pulling back? And there is a school of thought shared by some, that maybe the best thing to do is to just let them fight it out over there, as if that is actually -- that they -- that planning won't come back do to haunt us over here. I disagree with that, but that is a school of thought. So you gonna understand why -- and it's easy on show time to try to say that, when you're actually in the situation room with the White House, and you're trying to think OK, what's the president's world? Do you -- how do you set up the country for the next president. I think that they -- do struggle from analysis paralysis.


BOLLING: And let me throw this out. He also agrees later on in the same scene. Quinn says, "Raqqa, that's the headquarters, where they train, we should level it, make it a parking lot."

GUTFELD: A lot of things, I mean.

GUILFOYLE: You like stuff like that, I know.

GUTFELD: Well, he likes parking lots.

GUILFOYLE: He's a big (inaudible).

GUTFELD: He's got cars -- half-measure.

BOLLING: But it's a strategy.

GUTFELD: Yeah. Half-measures and ambivalence have never ever won a battle in the history of the world. I dare you to look that up.


GUTFELD: And by -- number two, I find it interesting that President Obama, when he talks about, whether it's ISIS or any kind of radical Islam, that it's always about -- these ideas, but when it comes to half the crimes in America, it's about guns. So it's like, why can't we just -- I don't understand. It's kind of hypocritical. Number three, there's an unthinkable idea here. Why not just let them have the Islamic state. Why don't we just say, "You guys go for it, wait until they form and then you bomb them, it's really hard to bomb things when they're all over the place. Let them have the Islamic state.

BOLLING: I like that.


GUTFELD: Let them have it.

BOLLING: Actually, let them have it in Syria.


GUTFELD: Call a meeting with them and say, "OK, you guys. You're going to be tried for war crimes for this. You're going to be tried for all of these horrible things, you gonna start act like weirdos, but then you bomb them."

GUILFOYLE: No -- yeah, then you say, "Oh, Charles skip, sorry, deleted, canceled."

BOLLING: Let's go on to this. Another country where President Obama's strategy isn't working -- and that's Afghanistan. Today, General John Campbell, the commander of U.S. and allied forces there spoke before the Senate Armed Services Committee he said, he'll advise the White House to shift its draw-down strategy based on the growing strength of ISIS and al- Qaeda. The Afghans are not ready to fight them alone.


GENERAL JOHN CAMPBELL, COMMANDER OF U.S. FORCES IN AFGHANISTAN: The challenges before are still significant. If we fail in this worthwhile mission, Afghanistan will once again become a sanctuary for al-Qaeda and other terrorists. There's been an attacking our interests and citizens abroad and at home. The Afghans welcome the opportunity to shape their destiny, but they would still desire, need and deserve our assistance.


PERINO: Agree.

BOLLING: Yup - no.

PERINO: I agree. So when Afghanistan had its election, that was hard-fought -- in The Wall Street Journal this past weekend, there was an interview with this guy who came in second. That they have a power-sharing arrangement, it's actually started to work, but they're not going to be able to do this in 12 months. And I think what the general is saying is absolutely right. I think it is also an opportunity for somebody like Hillary Clinton and other presidential candidates, but her in particular. What we have been able to do, with allied forces in the United States in particular, for girls in Afghanistan and women in Afghanistan, will all be lost in an instant if we don't try to keep some more troops there. And I think if I were Hillary Clinton, I would -- this is a place where you could support a DOD strategy and maybe a distance yourself from President Obama's foreign policy.


WILLIAMS: Didn't the president just say.

PERINO: I think the president has.


PERINO: Has recently said that he is considering a plan to allow them to stay.

WILLIAMS: Well, that was -- so I thought you would be celebrating this.

PERINO: I am. I'm glad.


PERINO: But I mean one of the reasons that we're in this position now is because of the draw-downs that we've had so far.


BOLLING: Juan, there have been generals who have said would --they would -- should have left more there and we should never have pull this -- drawn down to the levels we've drawn down.

GUILFOYLE: Right, that's the problem.

BOLLING: Now he wants.

GUILFOYLE: Can you see in hindsight that was a problem?


GUILFOYLE: That was a mistake?


WILLIAMS: I'll tell you what - you know, again, the American people do not want us to be involved with nation-building and permanently, locating troops in Afghanistan.

GUILFOYLE: They also don't want us to be part of the caliphate.

WILLIAMS: Dana -- when Dana says very carefully -- look, these people have not been able to step up so far, we don't want to lose the progress that's been made. That's -- my fear and we're recounting what you said.


WILLIAMS: And so we need to maybe stay there and try to help them get on their feet.

PERINO: It's like follow through.

WILLIAMS: That's -- so I'm not -- I think that what you guys should be saying is hats off, President Obama.

BOLLING: Hats off now, President Obama?

GUTFELD: I think.

BOLLING: About, hey. You should listen to these guys.



BOLLING: Six months, a year ago.

GUTFELD: You know what's interesting is that we're almost seeing -- President Obama is kind of ushering back the 1980's. You know, we're having a cold war go hot. Maybe Putin should go Afghanistan and then we could all start wearing high waisted (ph) belts.

PERINO: And then he's be on the wrong side of the.


GUTFELD: Yeah, that's true.

GUILFOYLE: OK, but here's the problem. Like the U.S. troops in Afghanistan, they fight under these very restrictive, you know, rules of engagement.

GUTFELD: Of course.

GUILFOYLE: That are crippling. So it really limits their ability to provide just like minimal combat support to the forces there. Are those guys ready for game-time? No, we see this already. That's why it's a very necessary for us to have (inaudible) troop presence there to be able to stabilize it. Anybody who has tried to take over Afghanistan to rule it has failed.


GUILFOYLE: The best we can hope to do is kind of maintain the order there and beat back the Taliban, so they don't completely take over the major cities that are important to us and our allies.

BOLLING: All right, we're going to have to leave it there.

Ahead, the gun control divide Marco Rubio, and others say laws won't reduce shootings in America; their argument, next.


GUILFOYLE: Politicians and pundits on the left say we have to do something about guns in America.


RUTH MARCUS, THE WASHINGTON POST: We have to do something, just because no solution is perfect doesn't mean there's nothing we should do.

CAPTAIN MARK KELLY, AMERICANS FOR RESPONSIBLE SOLUTIONS: We have a lot of loopholes in our gun laws, and our leaders should do something about that.

BERNIE SANDERS, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Condolences aren't enough. We've got to do something.

MARK HALPERIN, BLOOMBERG POLITICS: People need to find solutions to this and not talk about what won't work and that it's so complicated. We can't be the only country in the world that is like this.


GUILFOYLE: Do something, but would stiffer gun control laws have stopped shootings like the one in Oregon? Here are Marco Rubio and George Will.


MARCO RUBIO, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The truth is none of the laws they're talking about would have prevented any of these. I repeat what I say to people, gun laws are only followed by law-abiding people. Criminals don't follow the law, that's why they're criminals.

GEORGE WILL, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Suppose that there's a thought experiment that every gun control measure President Obama had suggested had been written in the law six years ago, which of these shootings, Charleston, Portland -- Oregon, which one would have been prevented by those laws? And the answer is none. And that's why the public turns away from this because it seems to be entirely unresponsive to the real problem.


GUILFOYLE: What is the answer? How do you stop the violence?



PERINO: Well, obviously, if any of us could wave a magic wand, we would want it to do -- we would want to do that. And do something, sounds really good. Because you do want to do something. And feeling like you're powerless is not a good thing. That's not what Americans do. Americans do something about things.

This is what I would recommend to the left. Show me a list of the restrictions that you want to place on guns. And then show me the estimated lives saved per restriction. OK, that's how we decide laws in this country. So then we can actually debate. The slippery slope of the loss of liberties, is that worth what we are talking about when you say you want more restrictions in regards to lives saved? If you can actually show that, that is a debate that you can have that is mature and smart and could actually lead to something. But they never do that.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Bolling.

WILLIAMS: Well you know -- excuse me. I was just going to say to Dana, I thought that was a fair proposal. The thing is that you can't quantify the value of life, right? So you wouldn't want to...

GUILFOYLE: Priceless.

PERINO: If you do that with -- for example, they do that with vehicles. So they'll say...


PERINO: ... when you do vehicle safety, there actually are ways to do cost-benefit analysis. It's not fun to do, when you talk about you can't put a price on a life. But the government does that all the time.

WILLIAMS: But that's an interesting point. Right, but that's an interesting point. Because something like cars, we've made cars safer over the years. We make lots of things safer, but we don't make guns safer.

And one of the ideas that people have is things like, you know, putting a fingerprint lock on a gun or making guns -- making it so that you had to go through certain levels of training...

GUILFOYLE: Well, there's gun safe boxes that have that very technology.

WILLIAMS: The trigger. The trigger.

GUILFOYLE: I know. I'm saying there's technology out there like that.

OK, Bolling. So the people that want to do something, want to save lives, quantify the value of life. It is priceless.

But then there's also the Constitution. There's Second Amendment. Why would you penalize people who are lawful, abiding gun owners that have every right under this country's laws to protect themselves?

BOLLING: You can't. You can't and you won't, and you're never going to get the Second Amendment recommended. It's not going to happen.

But every time there's a mass shooting, this debate comes up. And we hear register guns. We hear loopholes. We heard background checks. And none of those laws would have stopped Newtown, Aurora, Oregon or many of the other mass shootings.

What, really, you should be addressing, obviously, the mental health. We understand that.

Sixty people were killed in Chicago last month. Sixty people were killed in Chicago. My guess, the vast majority of those who were killed were killed by illegal guns, firearms, obtained illegally without background checks. So put a background -- mandatory background check on every gun, isn't going to stop the vast majority of the murders that -- by gun that are happening in the country.

WILLIAMS: So if, by Dana's standard, if I say to you, "Here's a proposal, and I think it will save lives," I'd say choke off easy access, because so many guns are sold illegally, by stopping easy sale of guns. And you say, "Well, that's not fair."

BOLLING: No, no. So many guns aren't sold illegally.

PERINO: Right.

WILLIAMS: So many aren't.

PERINO: That's not legal (ph).

BOLLING: The vast majority of guns that are sold, are sold legally. The gun show loophole is -- it amounts for a very, very small number.

Very quickly, though, so you talk about these background checks. They cost money, right? They cost money. So you're going to put a background check on a purchaser, a gun purchaser, right? That's onerous. That will -- that's like a tax to a minority or someone living in a high-crime urban area. Right? You'll say no. But it's not.

WILLIAMS: Wait. We pay taxes on clothes.

BOLLING: I'm really happy you said it's not onerous for a background check. Is a voter I.D. card that's free onerous to a minority?

WILLIAMS: It's a violation of your constitutional right to vote.

BOLLING: Is it onerous to a minority to get an I.D.?

WILLIAMS: Of course. If you're saying -- if you're saying...

GUILFOYLE: Yes, but he's saying the government ain't going to pay for it.

WILLIAMS: Yes, but let me just say, universal background check...

BOLLING: My point is, if one is too difficult for a minority to get to...


WILLIAMS: Look, everybody in the country. I don't care what your race is, has a right to feel safe.

GUILFOYLE: Right. And you know what feels safe? You know what feels safe?

WILLIAMS: And you're just ignoring it and say, "Oh, no, it's about right to a gun."

GUILFOYLE: Because our priorities are money in our banks; feel safe because you have armed guards there. But our children in the school trying to get an education? Nothing for them.

GUTFELD: Well, I was just going to say that our daily life is a constant reminder that deterrence works. All you have to do is walk around and you see the possibilities of armed opposition, whether it's police or it's armed security or it's a guard at a bank, or Secret Service at the White House, there's a simple fact: guns work. Guns protect.

Now there are other issues here. There's mental illness, and there's substance abuse. And there's a similarity among all these people that are loners. That's what you call the needles in the haystacks. Nobody wants to look for needles in the haystacks, because that's a violation. So you can't go and round up people, because they're loners or shut-ins. It would be wrong.

But there is some interesting things here. The dad was outraged. The dad was upset that his son had 13 weapons. Had his dad seen his son?

If you took all of the gun violence -- and I have absolutely no statistics to back this up; this is a theory. If you took all gun violence -- gangs, gang fighting, street killing -- and you put them together, I bet there's a definite correlation to households without fathers, that there's somebody there that isn't there as a role model. But...

WILLIAMS: I want to...

PERINO: Let's talk about that.

GUTFELD: You can't talk about that stuff.

WILLIAMS: Well, I would talk about it.

PERINO: Do something.

GUTFELD: Do something.

WILLIAMS: But you know what -- what about the mother? In both cases mothers were there, and they're buying the guns. In the Newtown...

GUTFELD: Dads aren't necessary in this day and age, right?

BOLLING: You're talking about the minorities' right to vote is a constitutional right. And so is my right to own a gun. That's...

WILLIAMS: Let me just tell you, I might have a right to feel safe in my home and my street. I don't -- I mean, I don't want a shooting gallery, which is apparently what a lot of people want.

GUTFELD: Which is what's happening -- which is happening in Chicago and D.C. and Baltimore. Very tight gun control.

WILLIAMS: Because of -- because of easy access to guns.

GUTFELD: Illegal access to guns.

WILLIAMS: I'm just saying, you know what? We need to have limited sales of guns.

GUILFOYLE: There's criminals and bad people, and they're going to get the weapons. Right. I mean...

BOLLING: They'll get guns. Jeez.

GUILFOYLE: Come on now.

BOLLING: You want to feel safe? Get a gun.


PERINO: Do something, Kimberly, tease.

GUILFOYLE: Right now.

All right. Ahead yesterday was Chick-fil-A. Today I have more big news regarding another fast food chain, McDonald's, baby. Stick around.


PERINO: Hillary Clinton is back in Iowa today where the first presidential race is less than four months away. And she's got her work cut out for her. Her unfavorability rating is sky-high, according to a new poll. Is this an opening for Joe Biden?

He had lunch with the president today and could be nearing a decision soon on whether to challenge Clinton.

Meanwhile, Biden's team is pushing back on a new Politico report that alleges the vice president was the one who leaked the story about his son, Beau's, dying wish for him to run again. A spokesperson calls the report "categorically false" and characterization of it "offensive."

Greg, let's start with Hillary. Boy, in Iowa the numbers are about 59 percent unfavorable. As if they've made up their minds about her.

GUTFELD: Not even "Saturday Night Live" could help her, which basically was a propaganda version of Dulcolax. I mean, it just pushed pro-HRC propaganda through effortlessly, and it still didn't help her.

PERINO: No cramping.

GUTFELD: No cramping at all.

She's being perceived by America as inauthentic.

GUILFOYLE: My goodness.

GUTFELD: And the more authentic she tries to be, the faker she becomes. You know when human beings used to dance the robot? This is the reverse. This is a robot trying to appear human, and it comes off rather poorly.


PERINO: You thought that, regarding the gun control question, right?

GUTFELD: Where she was saying, like, "It's got to work from the ground up." Meaning "I'm not doing anything."

PERINO: Well, although she did say she would do executive action, which would, I guess, imply, Eric, that President Obama hadn't done enough on executive action. Do you think that she believes that she will lose Iowa? I do.

BOLLING: I don't think it matters to her. I think she says, like we talked about yesterday, she could lose Iowa, she could lose New Hampshire and then still, you know, nail that Super Tuesday. She -- here's the best part of this whole Biden thing.


BOLLING: Is that if he gets in, which it looks like I guess he will get in. They even floated Elizabeth Warren as a potential vice president.

GUILFOYLE: We've been saying that.

BOLLING: No, it's fantastic, though, because here's what will happen. All those donors that were thinking about going to Hillary, holding back, will go to Biden. He'll be using her money against her.

Now, take a sports analogy. It's like, now that you have a playoff game, Hillary versus Biden, the GOP can sit back a little bit and go, "Good, let them beat each other up. Let them spend some money." Because Hillary becomes a more -- a weaker candidate when she comes across and meets whoever the Republican is.

PERINO: I've got to say, I actually think, Kimberly, that when he -- I don't know if the Biden people actually floated Elizabeth Warren. But if the problem for Hillary Clinton is likeability, why would you tie yourself to Elizabeth Warren, who actually might have less likeability factor than Hillary Clinton?

GUILFOYLE: Yes, well, depending. I mean, like the Bernie Sanders types are going to kind of gravitate and flock to her. Let's see what happens.

But the problem is, she's got serious problems in Iowa' and if Iowa matters, then this is going to be problematic for her.

I mean, down what, 10 points to Jeb, seven to Trump, 14 to Carly Fiorina. Not good optics for her, however you look at it. So if I'm somebody like Biden, and I'm seeing these numbers and seeing her vulnerability, why wouldn't you jump in? Why can't it be his turn? Why does it have to be...

GUTFELD: I'm thinking of jumping in.

PERINO: Don't give -- people might get excited about that.

GUILFOYLE: Boy, your like, unfavorable...

PERINO: Juan, do you think it's unfair, this accusation, really, about Joe Biden being so calculating? And the suggestion was that he had used his son's death to try to leak word of his presidential ambition. I think that's totally unfair. But wondering what you hear in Democratic circles.

WILLIAMS: Well, I think the talk today is that, you know, he was a calculating kind of person. But I just think it's not the Joe Biden that I think is on the record. I just don't -- I find it hard to believe, personally.

And I think that, if he was that calculating and that grim, using a dying son, then he would have come in already, but he hasn't done that. So -- I don't know what to say about it.

I do think this on the Hillary Clinton front: you know she's highly -- apparently, according to a very credible poll, Wall Street Journal/NBC poll, 59 percent unfavorable. But it's incredible, when you look at the numbers, she's actually winning in Iowa right now. So I don't know how to make sense of that, but she's winning in Iowa.

PERINO: Maybe because they don't like the alternative.

WILLIAMS: Yes, well, that could be. But she's winning. She's not winning in New Hampshire right now, but she is winning in Iowa.

BOLLING: Isn't she losing in Iowa?

PERINO: If you look at one poll.

BOLLING: Yes. The most recent. No?

WILLIAMS: No. All of the...

BOLLING: No. I think she's losing to Bernie in both Iowa and New Hampshire, just losing more in New Hampshire.

PERINO: The thing about the Biden issue in terms on what is motivating him to run. I think that there are worse things than being motivated by your family and trying to do well by them. I mean, what motivates her to run? Nobody questions that, I mean, except for right here on this show.

All right. Ahead the title of "America's first family" has always applied to the family that lives in the White House. But should the Obamas relinquish it to the Kardashians?


PERINO: We'll discuss, next.

GUILFOYLE: I mean, if that's not...


WILLIAMS: Did you hear America has a new first family? The Kardashian/Jenners, that's how they're billed on the new cover of Cosmopolitan's 50th birthday issue. It's sparking some outrage in the Twitterverse.

Like them or not, the reality TV family has a massive following. So the question is has celebrity replaced religion in America? That's what Spider-Man Andrew Garfield thinks.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

WILLIAMS: What do you think, Greg?

GUTFELD: This, among celebrities is considered a revelation? Although it's been said for the last 30 years. But when it comes from a celebrity, it's like watching a dog open a can of beer. It's like, how did he do that?

He proved the point that he, this whole thing is he's mad, because he's mad that he has to talk and do these interviews. He proved his point about how vacuous Hollywood is, because he just basically regurgitated everything you hear. He's jealous of the Kardashians, because they don't have to go -- they didn't have to go to acting class and they're big. I don't know. Was he talking about the Kardashians?

WILLIAMS: He was just talking in general, because he made this movie. But I thought you were going to say that he was great, because he said, "I'm an actor, you know. Like, what do I have to say?"

GUTFELD: But then he goes on to say a bunch of garbage.


GUTFELD: And proved his point.

WILLIAMS: Well, I don't know.

So Dana, what do you think? This is the argument that -- coming from, like, some people, Huffington Post and others, saying this is black erasure, because you're putting the Kardashians...


WILLIAMS: ... in where the Obamas should be, the first family.

PERINO: Well, the Obamas have had plenty of cover stories in magazines, and they deserve to; and they are the first family.

GUTFELD: They have the biggest cover story.

PERINO: That's pretty funny.

I think that when Cosmo did this, they were thinking, "How can we get people talking about our magazine cover?"

GUILFOYLE: And they did.

PERINO: Because the Kardashians being on the cover of a magazine is not very interesting. But if you add "America's first family," then they know we're all going to talk about it.

WILLIAMS: Well, what did you think? What -- did it come in the mail to you?

BOLLING: No. But I'm reading. The first family of fashion. No?

WILLIAMS: Fashion?

GUILFOYLE: Bolling had to put on his glasses to read the fine print.

PERINO: No, fashion applies to the "under $50, beauty under $10."

BOLLING: You look at it, you see...

PERINO: No, no, no.

BOLLING: ... "of fashion."

GUILFOYLE: Bolling put on his specs for that.

A big misunderstanding, people.

BOLLING: Look at it this way. I spent my time researching Syria.

WILLIAMS: You know, but it says here right on the cover, Kimberly...

GUILFOYLE: Yes, please. Let me save you.

WILLIAMS: It says, "Easiest workout for an epic" -- what is that? What is that? It says...

PERINO: No, that's not for the same. It has nothing to do with...

WILLIAMS: These are the Kardashians.

You think they aren't...

GUTFELD: Isn't that what America is all about?

GUILFOYLE: I think it was rude they didn't put Caitlyn on the cover.

WILLIAMS: Whoa. Oh, my gosh.

"One More Thing," and this is a delicious "One More Thing," coming up next.


GRAPHIC: Greg's Man Bun News

GUTFELD: "Greg's Man Bun News"!

GUILFOYLE: Show your face.

GUTFELD (WEARING A WIG FEATURING HAIR IN A BUN): There you go. How do you like that? I got a man bun today. It's about time. Man bun news. And man bun nudes.

Brigham Young, Brigham Young is banning man buns among students, these male I call them jerk -- dork knobs -- because it's against the student honor code.

GUILFOYLE: This is...

GUTFELD: I would like to salute Brigham Young for banning these horrible, horrible things. Only sumo wrestlers should have these. But if you're a beta male waiter, you're not -- you shouldn't have this. If you're working at Starbucks, you shouldn't have this. If you're an architect, you shouldn't have this. This is for sumo wrestlers.


BOLLING: What was one of the first pieces of advice you gave me early on in the show?

PERINO: No props. No props.

GUTFELD: It's real.

GUILFOYLE: Remember the time when he did the interpretative...

PERINO: But you -- but you can skip right past that advice.


GUILFOYLE: I think it's weird how you say, "Man Bun News."

PERINO: OK. So I'm going to have a spontaneous "One More Thing."

GUTFELD: Oh, wow.

PERINO: Very fun. I have a great friend of mine, Stewart...

GUTFELD: You have no friends.

PERINO: Stewart and Allie Siciliano. We have a picture here of their new baby. This is Betsy. It's Elizabeth. This is just breaking news, Elizabeth Stewart Siciliano. They're going to call her Betsy. And this is the family picture. And she joins older sister, Annie. Great, great, wonderful kids.

BOLLING: Congrats.

GUILFOYLE: There it is.

GUTFELD: They're not puppies; I'm so surprised.

All right, Juan.

WILLIAMS: So you know, sports are a guy's soap opera. And you know, the lady's version of soap opera, you've got to wait weeks for a new development.

Well, this weekend if you're a Washington sports fan like me, what a weekend. Because on Saturday, Scherzer pitches his second no-hitter of the season. On Sunday, the Washington football team score as last-minute touchdown to win. And they're no good. And then on Monday, the Nationals fired their manager. So it's been like soap opera heaven for me this weekend.


BOLLING: When are they firing Papelbon?

WILLIAMS: Good question.

GUILFOYLE: I don't know. On to important news. People watch the show don't care about man buns, but they do care about do you live in a biscuit or McMuffin area? If only the Electoral College would light up like this. Watch this.

So the red here is where you can actually get the McMuffin, but you have to go down to the south here where it's blue, to get the biscuit. And this is made on the preferences by the customers.

So here's the good news. Now McDonald's, people have been complaining about it, it's a big problem. People want breakfast. I want breakfast on demand. Maybe I want breakfast in the afternoon. Maybe I want it at night. Now I can have it. All the time.

Because you can get this right now at your local McDonald's. You can also get something else very tasty besides the hash browns, is the sausage burrito.

GUTFELD: Look at that huh?

PERINO: You know that Robert Gibbs has never been happier with FOX News.

GUILFOYLE: Now, we got a little bit screwed out of the Sausage McMuffin, because Shawn (ph) brought back only ones with ham.

PERINO: That Shawn (ph).

BOLLING: And that will be on Snapchat.

WILLIAMS: You don't have -- you don't have any money in McDonald's, you just love the food.

GUTFELD: McDonald's really is the first Dulcolax.


GUILFOYLE: Sorry, not so good.

BOLLING: Last night, I saw the best documentary I've ever seen in my life. It's on HBO. It's called "Terror at the Mall." You've got to check this out. It premiered about maybe a month ago or so. But check it out on the reruns, amazing footage.

All right. Moving on, I know this happened Friday and you've probably seen it somewhere, but it was worth our audience, a few minutes to see Jewels of California, Monrovia, California, a French bulldog who encountered two bears on his -- her property. Look -- scared away two bears on the property. Apparently, the family has two children and the neighbors had been...

GUILFOYLE: Isn't that amazing?

PERINO: That's the kind of dog you want, Gutfeld.

GUILFOYLE: They were coming for McMuffins.

GUTFELD: That was actually me in a costume.

GUILFOYLE: I just want to point out you threw your man bun at me, and your hair is now on my breakfast.

GUTFELD: I'm sorry. Hair in your food.

GUILFOYLE: Disgusting.

GUTFELD: All right. Set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of "The Five"!

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