Is Hillary Clinton's email scandal much ado about nothing?

A fair and balanced debate on 'The Five'


This is a rush transcript from "The Five," August 21, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Jebediah Bila, Geraldo Rivera, Tucker Carlson and the brother I never wanted, Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

So she said it over and over again. Listen:


HILLARY CLINTON, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am certainly well aware of the classification requirements, and did not send classified material.

I never sent classified material on my e-mail and I never received any that was marked classified.

I did not send classified material and I did not receive any material that was marked or designated classified.


PERINO: But despite her repeated denials, we now know classified material was sent and received on Hillary's -- Hillary Clinton, I should say, private server. Reuters is reporting at least 30 e-mail threads were considered classified from the start. They contained information about foreign governments and Clinton allegedly sent at least 17 of them, herself. A small IT company has found itself thrust into the firestorm this week. Platte River networks, was hired by the Clintons to handle the server in 2013. It did not have security clearances to handle classified information. Its newly hired crisis management spokesman appeared On The Record last night.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We took over five months after she left office. Our job was to upgrade, manage and secure that e-mail server which we did.

The server was never located in Denver. This is an east coast client. And we moved the server to a dedicated, secure data center, did that in June of 2013. Tuesday of last week, the 11th, the Federal Bureau of Investigation asked us to turn over the e-mail server that was located in the data center. On Wednesday morning, we did.

GRIFF JENKINS, FOX NEWS: Where was it picked up?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In New Jersey, at the data center.

JENKINS: Is Platte River being looked at in any capacity by the FBI?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not that I'm aware of.


PERINO: So when this first all happened, Greg, and I heard Hillary Clinton talking in absolute saying, "I never sent any. I didn't have any. I would never, I have never, I thought." Oh, that is not a good thing to say because she might not know what's on there.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: That's exactly what her husband did with Monica Lewinsky. The server is the intern, the e-mail is the dress. Look, her campaign.


GUTFELD: Her campaign reminds me of an English poet from the 1700s, Donne. She's like a TV.


GUTFELD: She's like a TV show about a missing airplane. She's lost. She's like a sandwich on Michael Moore's plate, finished. She's like Megan Fox and Brian Austin Green, over.

PERINO: I could have guessed that one.


GUTFELD: It's done. No, it's done. It's just a matter of when she leaves.

TUCKER CARLSON, GUEST CO-HOST: Two ends, by the way.

GUTFELD: Yes. I'm done.

GERALDO RIVERA, CO-HOST: Save me till last because I'm going to be the party pooper. I really can't believe how much.

PERINO: You can't.

RIVERA: Hyperbole is being expended over a big nothing. What is the crime that we're talking about here? I want to know. I want to know.

PERINO: I will hold -- I will save you till the end.

RIVERA: Save me till the end.


JEDEDIAH BILA, GUEST CO-HOST: She wasn't supposed to be doing all of this on her own e-mail for starters. She was supposed to be doing this through an official government e-mail.


BILA: That's A.

RIVERA: (inaudible)

BILA: B, why didn't she.

RIVERA: Not a crime. Not a crime.

BILA: Why didn't she know the rules, though? I mean, they're saying that some of this information is born classified, which means that it's automatically classified because of the nature of the documents as from foreign diplomats. It seems like this woman had a job as secretary of state for a long time and didn't bother to read the rule book. The reason it's a big issue, Geraldo is because you have to follow the rules. She works for us, not the other way around. And if she's not going to follow the rules, then what are we supposed to make of anything in government?

RIVERA: I really think that you should save me till last.

CARLSON: You see, but.

GUTFELD: You can't help yourself, Geraldo.

RIVERA: I can't. I can't (inaudible)

CARLSON: Republicans unfortunate.

RIVERA: Because this is the biggest.



RIVERA: Noise about nothing that I ever heard, ever, ever.

CARLSON: Is that true?

RIVERA: Tucker what's the crime?

CARLSON: I'll tell you.

RIVERA: You're going to arrest her for breaking the rules.

CARLSON: What's the crime? This is the problem with republican responses. They are buying into this lowest common denominator way of looking at it. Was it a crime, was it -- who cares? If its evidence of terrible judgment. And that is the problem right there. Whether it's criminal.

RIVERA: All right, but you say.

CARLSON: Hold on. Wait. To find out, she allowed.

RIVERA: But you just made a statement, terrible judgment.

CARLSON: And I'll tell you.

RIVERA: What is this.

CARLSON: I'll tell you.

RIVERA: What is this terror involved.

GUTFELD: You gonna wait until you relax.

CARLSON: I'll tell you -- exactly. Wait your turn, man. I will tell you precisely why.

RIVERA: You're flowing rhetoric, this got me whip out.

CARLSON: She was the secretary of state. There is literally no question. I bet my house that much classified material moved through her mail. The U.S. government has classified memos from the First World War, a hundred one years ago. Everything is classified.

RIVERA: I agree.

CARLSON: In Washington.

RIVERA: I agree.

CARLSON: That information.

RIVERA: So easy to stamp it.

CARLSON: And I'll you, that information -- that is legal, but that information was subject to hackers. We know a Romanian hacker already broke into her e-mail. Got her e-mails to Sidney Blumenthal, released them to the press. How much of this information which, by the way, does bear on national security questions was available to the Chinese? That's the problem right there.

RIVERA: That is absolutely not the allegation being made here.

CARLSON: Well, exactly, but that's the core problem.

RIVERA: Here you have Edward Snowden who has the national security agency and he vomits every secret we ever had, and the republican response is muted at best. Well.

PERINO: Oh, no, no, no.

RIVERA: Am I a libertarian?

PERINO: That's not true. That's not true.


RIVERA: Am I a libertarian? Do I want this people snooping?

GUTFELD: Try him.

RIVERA: Am I Rand Paul? Am I Mitch McConnell?

BILA: Edward Snowden.

RIVERA: I'm not so sure. How I'm supposed to respond.

BILA: Geraldo. That's not fair.

RIVERA: In this case, she's giving -- she's giving information or talking with her staffers who have the same clearance she does. It's not like David Petraeus. I've often heard that comparison.

CARLSON: Well, this is -- why do you think she did.

RIVERA: There is no crime here.


RIVERA: Why are we so -- why are we so upset about it?

CARLSON: Why do you think she did this in the first place? Because for her convenient?

RIVERA: Because she didn't want people like you snooping on her stuff.

CARLSON: Because she's trying to avoid.

GUTFELD: Exactly.

CARLSON: The disclosure laws to which every federal official is subject.

RIVERA: OK. OK, I give you that.

PERINO: And in fact, it's not only.

CARLSON: Well, I mean.

RIVERA: I give you that.


RIVERA: Is that, is that a crime?

GUTFELD: Geraldo, you actually answered your own question.

CARLSON: It is a crime.

RIVERA: Is that a crime?


GUTFELD: She put her own personal.


GUTFELD: She put her own personal, privacy, Geraldo. She put her own personal privacy before national security.

RIVERA: It wasn't that naughty? Isn't that, isn't that awful?

GUTFELD: It is. It is.

BILA: Yes.

GUTFELD: Especially, especially.

PERINO: You know what.

RIVERA: Oh, yeah.


RIVERA: And how.

GUTFELD: Geraldo.

RIVERA: And how disadvantages the United States as a result of that?

GUTFELD: When you have someone who treats.

RIVERA: Isn't that the issue?

GUTFELD: No. The issue is when you have somebody who treats Intel so casually they should not be in charge of national security. It would be like hiring a kleptomaniac to move your furniture. You don't do it. It's stupid.

RIVERA: Why don't you care about the fact that she screwed up the Middle East along with President Obama rather than this.


PERINO: Geraldo, let us stay on this topic just for once before we get back to that.

CARLSON: But that is a good question, by the way.

PERINO: But why was her husband -- Jedediah, Bill Clinton as president had to actually pardon John Deutch from the CIA, why, because he had classified information on his home server.

BILA: That's exactly right.

PERINO: Why do you pardon somebody? You pardon them for burping at the table. You pardon them because they were going to be convicted of a crime.

BILA: Right. And this Edward Snowden -- Edward Snowden was not the secretary of state. I mean, if we have a secretary of state in there, she or here is supposed to be prioritizing our national security, above all else. I don't care about her e-mails about yoga or to her friends or to her family.


RIVERA: Greg does.

BILA: The bottom line is if she cared so much about her privacy, then she should have kept her private e-mails separate from what she was doing as secretary of state. She didn't do that.

PERINO: Which is what she said she did for convenience, Greg. This is the thing I don't understand. This is a woman who actually the most convenient thing would not have to be -- would not have to do e-mail at all, but you have people. You have friends -- you had your staff. They can come and bring things to you. You don't actually have to get yourself in this kind of trouble.

GUTFELD: And if it really didn't matter, why did she scrub it and dump the weapon? It's a cover up now. I mean, if it was no big deal. And by the way, who dumps personal e-mails? Those are the things you save. I mean, do you have e-mails about weddings and birth, you keep those.

RIVERA: I am just seeing, you seizing a Hillary Clinton e-mail about wearing Lululemon when she's working out.

GUTFELD: I wear Lululemon.

RIVERA: Do you know that she wear Lululemons when she workout?

GUTFELD: I wear Lululemon. I don't care.


GUTFELD: That's quite tight.

PERINO: That's.

CARLSON: But isn't this -- I mean, you worked in government. In a normal office, you would have people around the principal saying you know what, I think this might be a bad call.


CARLSON: But she doesn't because she has the same group of people who been around her for 20 years.

RIVERA: That's a different.

CARLSON: It's small. It's airless. It's paranoid. It's weird.

PERINO: You're absolutely right.

CARLSON: It's not an environment where good decisions are made.

PERINO: Can you do a thought experiment with me.


PERINO: That I tried to do here before and I think it's accurate. Imagine - - because you covered the Bush administration. Imagine if it was Dick Cheney who was being accused of what Hillary Clinton has being accused of doing. And I guarantee you that the media would be in full bore calling for him to resign, not run, pull out of the race, et cetera.

CARLSON: Well, he'd be labeled a traitor.


RIVERA: Wouldn't Condoleezza Rice be a better comparison, though.


RIVERA: Rather than the vice president of the United States. I mean, you are not saying that Joe Biden.

PERINO: Are you saying that Condi Rice had a home server that she could dub?

RIVERA: I'm saying that if Condi -- is it not a fact?


RIVERA: As Secretary Clinton purports that other secretaries, including Secretary Rice, but I don't know specifically, I'm assuming, other secretaries, every other secretary has used private e-mails at some time.

CARLSON: Incorrect. No. No. No, no, no, no.

RIVERA: She's the only one who has used it exclusively.

CARLSON: She's the only who used it exclusively, that's correct.

GUTFELD: And what about Jason Brezler? Their marine reservist who got.

PERINO: Yeah, let's talk about him for a second.

GUTFELD: He's getting punished, discharged, for sending an e-mail to -- on his private account, to warn of an attack in which three Marines died. He's getting punished.

PERINO: Yeah, and.

BILA: That's not.

PERINO: He's losing -- gonna bit loses -- possibly lose his job.


PERINO: Lose his career, and have difficulty for the rest of his life for making one decision like that, when she was actually in charge of everything.

GUTFELD: He tried to save lives.

CARLSON: No, but that's Washington. It's on -- people who don't live here may not know how unbelievably uptight everybody is about this exact question. My college roommate worked in the Bush administration. I couldn't e-mail him, except on his official account. You worked there same too.

PERINO: I didn't have a personal account when I left the White House.

CARLSON: it's not allowed, they blocked it.

RIVERA: A lot.

PERINO: Put everything on my work e-mail.

RIVERA: Of people using accounts to dial up Ashley Madison. Maybe that's why.

BILA: Why doesn't her incompetence matter, I mean, let's take the corruption component out of it. Let's say there was nothing found in there and there was no communications that were shady and we find, OK. Well, by some miracle there's nothing in there even in the classified material, although we know there was classified material and she clearly lied. Why doesn't the fact that she's incompetent, that she made this decision, that she had this lapse in judgment and that she deceived people by constantly saying there was no classified information. Why doesn't that matter? Why doesn't her dishonesty and lack of integrity on this issue matter?

RIVERA: Because first of all, why is the most damning e-mail so far released? It is a recital of a press account about the drone attacks in Afghanistan. In other words, it's an e-mail that says, "Did you see the New York Times story about the secret drone attack that wiped out Abdullah Abdullah?" You know this guy Afghanistan. That was stamped secret because it's routinely stamped secret because everybody is stamped secret and it is absolutely harmless in every regard.

CARLSON: So what percentages of her e-mails have been viewed by inspectors.

RIVERA: Who knows?

CARLSON: Just less than 1 percent.

RIVERA: How many.

CARLSON: So it's sort of.

RIVERA: How many e-mails.

CARLSON: As you just don't care?


RIVERA: How many e-mails of other secretaries are reviewed?


RIVERA: It just seems to me, unless you have an aspect of criminality, and if there's an informer or whistleblower.

CARLSON: Her e-mail was hacked by a Romanian hacker.

RIVERA: Who says that David Petraeus is giving secret information to his mistress? That I said (inaudible) is problematic.

BILA: She also deleted so many of them. We have to count on her word.

GUTFELD: Thirty thousand.

BILA: For so many. She deleted them. Then she hands in a server that's wiped clean not with a cloth.

RIVERA: Do you think that she's unique in that regard?

BILA: I'm not.



BILE: I think she's unique and the fact that she's incredibly arrogant about it. And the fact that the public seems to -- many in the media seem to think oh, it's OK if it's Hillary.

RIVERA: I think that they have seized on anything.

BILA: It's not OK.

RIVERA: They are missing the opportunity to condemn or to criticize what was a policy failures allowing Gaddafi to be overthrown and replaced by what, by anarchy?

CARLSON: But they're fruits from the same tree.


RIVERA: By allowing the whole Arab spring to happen.

CARLSON: I agree with you, but only someone who is surrounded by sycophants and butt kickers.

RIVERA: No, but that.

CARLSON: No, I'm serious. Could be capable of making a chain of horrible decisions, this is in line with exactly what she did in Libya.

PERINO: And also, just remember that people within the White House who actually knew what the policy was supposed to be, they were getting these private e-mails, and still nobody stopped her.

BILA: Right.

GUTFELD: Can we just.

PERINO: And that's weird.

GUTFELD: Can we focus on the greater good here as a progressive liberal? Chris Matthews says that if Hillary Clinton drops out of the race, he will cancel his show. So can we agree that that is more important for the state of our nation than this election?

CARLSON: Is he likes Bobby says.

GUTFELD: Geraldo, can we agree that she should drop out? That means Chris Matthews is gone. He goes back to -- I don't know.

RIVERA: Get into your Lululemons and get out of here.


PERINO: His wife is likely to be.

RIVERA: You're jealous because I can fit into them.

BILA: Yeah, it's true.

PERINO: His wife is likely to be a congresswoman after 2016.

CARLSON: So Chris is going on a hunger strike if we don't vote the right way?

GUTFELD: It's a talking strike.

CARLSON: I love.


GUTFELD: Which is like for him is a hunger strike.

CARLSON: I love that.


CARLSON: He's like an IRA guy.


CARLSON: This is a dirty protest.


PERINO: All right, we got to move on because -- what would a show be without this, Donald Trump, gearing up for the biggest rally of his campaign tonight in Alabama. Demand was so high the event was moved from the theater to a stadium. And later, we answer your questions. It's Facebook Friday. So go to and post them now. We'll be back in a moment.


CARLSON: There he is. Can you feel the magic? It's the hottest ticket in South Alabama tonight. Donald Trump expected to draw the biggest crowd of any candidate, yet, this election season, happening this evening in Mobile. Supporters are expected to pack a college football stadium 40,000 seats. Trump will explain how he plans to make America great again. Well, the rally was relocated to the Ladd- Peebles Stadium due to high demand. Trump's popularity has not taken a hit despite a string of controversies that have rocked his campaign. Here are a couple of them.


RICH LOWRY, NATIONAL REVIEW EDITOR: All these controversies have helped him because people are so sick of people having to apologize and cry and bow and scrape when they say something that's notionally offensive to the PC crowd.

JOHN HEILEMANN, NEW YORK MAGAZINE JOURNALIST: So far everything that has been thrown at Trump is not there. Nobody has found kryptonite for Donald Trump so far.


CARLSON: Now Geraldo, you just heard the truth to other. Whatever, I'm sure you're not like.

RIVERA: It is the truth.

CARLSON: This Trump guy, but aren't you a little sick of having to measure every single word to meet a series of rules you didn't write? Here's a guy who says exactly thinks he doesn't care. And there's somebody thrilling about that, no?

RIVERA: You mean like anchor baby?

CARLSON: Yeah. That's exactly what I mean.

RIVERA: We'll get to that. I love the man. I hate his policies, but I think that he will moderate as time goes by. I also believe, as of right now that Trump is unstoppable. I don't think that anyone can deny him the republican nomination. I'm saying it right now. I know it's early. I know its August, but I really believe viewing that field that nobody is going to replace Donald Trump as the frontrunner.

CARLSON: Whoa. So you, I mean, that's kind of over, no?

PERINO: Yeah, right. We don't even need an election. Actually, do you remember, in the Reagan re-election, there was a poll right beforehand asking voters in America, "Do you think we even need to have an election?" "No, we're good. We're sticking with Reagan." So, you know there could be sentiment.

CARLSON: So Trump is Reagan in that comparison?

PERINO: But I actually -- it remember, there.

CARLSON: In many.

PERINO: There's 14 months before the election, 14 months. So who knows?

CARLSON: Five before Iowa.

PERINO: Marco Rubio today had an amazing turnout -- poll result in almost all the states. He actually beats Hillary Clinton. And I think that his campaign will be able to take some of that momentum into the next debate which will be September 16th. So there's a lot -- obviously, there's a lot of noise. That's a huge turnout he's going to get tonight. Almost like Bernie Sanders level out on the west coast. So I think that there's a race. We have a race.

CARLSON: There will be thousand people. I mean, leaving Trump the man aside, his specific policies aside. What can the Republican Party learn from this?

GUTFELD: Well, here's the deal. You know what's brilliant is the, we need a bigger place strategy.



GUTFELD: That's like, you notice that. That's like when body builders go shopping for clothes, they put on something really small. They go oh, well, this is too small and they have to take it off and put on another shirt. It's brilliant, but people are talking about Donald Trump like the entertaining relative that came to stay and everyone wondering how long he's going to stay. And it's really fun to focus on the phenomenon of Donald Trump. The fact that he's raw, unfiltered. Rather than talking about the specifics and consequences of his statements, which I don't even think he thinks about. Like he think -- like when you look at the immigration stuff, I mean, it's like writing about cuisine without ever reviewing the restaurant. You got to go and you got to read the specifics. And within the immigration plan, there are things that we talked about forever. Whether it was e-verify, overstaying visas. Building the wall has been talked about for a long time. Strengthening the border is very important. These are things that we have talked about and galvanized enthusiastic support and its necessary. However, when you link this to birthright citizenship and mass deportations, you pollute this idea. And you tend - you may end up alienating a lot of people that might listen to you. That's the problem. You have to out -- you have to weigh the benefits of this incredible enthusiasm and this sensation to the long-term consequences of alienating people who actually might believe in all of your beliefs and all of your principles.



CARLSON: But if you're another campaign and you're watching Trump gather, we'll see if he actually does it if 30,000 people actually show, but if they do.

PERINO: They do.

CARLSON: That's kind of amazing. What do you learn from that?

BILA: And you would think -- I think what you learn is that you have to be compelling is that people don't listen to your policies and what you have to say, unless you say it in a way that's compelling. A lot of these candidates you know came out. Walker came out with an Obamacare alternative. Bobby Jindal came out and talked about that. I was falling asleep. You guys are not doing a good job of taking these free market ideas and making them compelling. When you listen to Donald Trump, even if you're inclined to not like some of his former policies, you are listening. You are sitting in front of that television. You are engaged, you are focused.


BILA: You are not changing that channel.


BILA: Those candidates need to learn how to do that. How to take these messages, and some of them have great records and talk to people and connect with them in a way that makes them not change that channel and give them the time of day.

CARLSON: But they're making, one of the lessons is the republican primary voters truly, truly hate the media and for good reason. Here's an exchange that Trump had with an ABC reporter assigned to him that kind of crystallizes the whole thing as far as I can tell. Watch this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you aware the term anchor baby, that's an offensive term? People find that.

DONALD TRUMP, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You mean it's not politically correct and yet everybody uses it? I -- so you know what, give me a different term.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Governor, do you regret using the term anchor baby yesterday on the radio?



BUSH: I don't. I don't regret it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't regret it?

BUSH: No, do you have a better term?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not. I'm asking you. A lot of folks find it offensive.

BUSH: You give me a better term and I'll use it. I'm serious.


CARLSON: Both these guys have the same response. Which is hey, back off. Stop lecturing me.

RIVERA: Well, first of all that's as feisty as Jeb Bush.


RIVERA: Has been the entire campaign. I mean, finally, he discovered that he has some passion for something. You know, as a person who really is a firm supporter of immigration reform by which I mean that the vast majority of the law-abiding undocumented immigrants in this country and their families should be legitimized and taken out of the shadows. I don't have a big problem with the term anchor baby. I think it describes a process that applies to a relatively few immigrants. And I -- it is, you know, you can make a logical argument that the baby comes and the baby's the anchor brings in the family. The term that I despise is illegal alien. Illegal alien is like Negro or colored. It was appropriate maybe in the 1950s. Nowadays, it's absolutely offensive.

GUTFELD: Boy, I like it.

CARLSON: I think.

GUTFELD: You know.


CARLSON: It's one of my favorite terms. I love it.

RIVERA: Do they come from mars? Where do they come from?

CARLSON: No, no, no because it's like literally true and that's what people hate it.

RIVERA: So Negro is literally true.


RIVERA: Do you still use that one?

CARLSON: Is what comparison.


PERINO: When my cousin first moved here, he was alien on parole. That's what he was like.


PERINO: Entitled form the government. That was they comment.

GUTFELD: That's a great Phil Collins song.

CARLSON: Yes, it is.

GUTFELD: By the way.

CARLSON: What a great guy he is.

GUTFELD: By the way, you know what? We can just solve this if everybody wants. We just change anchor baby to anchor fetus. Why don't we do that? Considering the left embraces that change with Planned Parenthood. Just call them anchor fetuses and everybody will be OK.

CARLSON: And then they'll disappear tomorrow.


CARLSON: Because it is your choice.


CARLSON: All right, we got a programming note. Catch Judge Jeanine's interview with Donald Trump. That's tomorrow night, 9:00 p.m. Eastern. Stay tuned.


CARLSON: Till on this show, Facebook Friday, but up next. Somebody might explain the mainstream media silence on the Planned Parenthood scandal. Don't go away.


BILA: There's been scant coverage by the mainstream media on Planned Parenthood's harvesting of baby body parts. This may explain why. On Tuesday night, the abortion provider honored 16 journalists at its annual Maggie Award for Media Excellence, among the recipients, employees of MSNBC, Salon, BuzzFeed and Yahoo. The left has tried to blame the right for the Planned Parenthood scandal. Congressman Mia Love insists that this not a partisan matter.


MIA LOVE, UTAH REPRESENTATIVE: This is not about a right or left issue. This is right or wrong. And whether we are going to stand up for those who cannot speak for themselves, or we're going to just turn a blind eye and pretend that this is not happening.

As long as I'm here, it's my job to do everything I can to get colleagues on both sides of the aisle, to see what's happening and stand up for what we believe is right.

This is who we are as Americans. Our job is to protect human life.


BILA: Greg, I agree with her 100 percent. I think this is something that the left and right should be unifying against. This isn't a partisan issue. When you look at these stories and these videos that have come out of Planned Parenthood, this is something that should make everyone's stomach turn. Why isn't that happening?

GUTFELD: I don't know. If you'd won an award from a pro-life organization, you'd probably never work again in any major media.

BILA: Yup. Yeah.

GUTFELD: But let say its Planned Parenthood, they blew it. They should have made the award truly representative of the achievement. Do you know how parents love LeBron's (ph) baby shoes? I think they're trophy -- the trophy.

CARLSON: I don't know.

GUTFELD: You know they have plenty of molds lying around, Geraldo.


GUTFELD: Yet, no. I'm saying why not? Why don't they show what they really do in the trophy? You know what-- how selfish is it of pro-choicers (ph) to have children when they could instead have contributed them to fetal tissue.


BILA: Yeah. And the award is called the Maggie Award, Tucker?

CARLSON: Yeah, Margaret.

BILA: I said, Margaret Sanger who's eugenicist to what's a racist?

GUTFELD: Maggie.

BILA: I mean, why would this, why would this news organization they not Know? Do they not know what this woman stood for?

CARLSON: Of course they know.

BILA: Do they not know founding? Or they just -- want to pretend the public is ignorant.

CARLSON: I've got to say, I try never to make politics personal. I have a lot of friends on the other side. But these videos are so upsetting that, if someone can look at that and not be appalled by it, I don't want to know because it would affect the way I feel about that person.

I also supervise a lot of reporters. We would never allow any reporter who works for me to accept an award from an organization they cover. Because that by definition affects their coverage.

This issue, specifically abortion, is one in which there's total unanimity in the press. Every single person I know working as a reporter in a mainstream news outlet is pro-choice. Every single one. And it affects the coverage. It's appalling. It does not represent America. There's no diversity in this at all.

And I also, as a personal matter, think it's totally wrong and creepy and cruel.

BILA: What bothers me about it, though, Dana, is it's not surprising at all. You read -- you read a story like this. We should all be shocked. Oh, my gosh. I don't believe this is happening. Instead we all sit here and say, "Yes, well, it figures, because we haven't seen this being covered in many places; the coverage has been quite poor." So it's no surprise that there's a link here that you have these people accepting awards from this organization. That's why there's no coverage of what's going on.

PERINO: I think also that it doesn't faze a young reporter to think that there would be an appearance of a conflict of interest for them to get an award from this organization. They have grown up; they went on college campus. They -- this is just part of what they do. And nobody gives themselves more awards than the press.

BILA: From Planned Parenthood?

PERINO: Not even Hollywood. Because every week in Washington, D.C., you could go to a press awards dinner. And that's actually very funny.

GUTFELD: I never who anything.

PERINO: But you know what? There's a difference. You wouldn't accept it.

GUTFELD: Oh, yes, I would.

RIVERA: He'd accept an invitation to lunch.

GUTFELD: Not from you, Geraldo.

RIVERA: But the -- but you know, it's interesting how, you know, I've been here almost 15 years at FOX. And one of the things that has really been eye-opening is that people who are pro-life are no less or more intelligent or less or more sensitive than people who are pro-choice. You know, it is something; it is eye-opening.

There's a big difference in the networks. Let's face it. I mean, the networks are run by a west side of Manhattan clique that's been around forever. The big networks. FOX was unique in its creation. I mean, you had Irish Catholics were the first seven people. I mean, you had a whole different sensibility in life. And the abortion issue is central to that.

And I submit to you, and we have argued about it, that the Planned Parenthood scandal, the reason the pro-choicers are ignoring it to the extent that that is factual, it is because they see it not as an attack on Planned Parenthood's excesses and the horrible things that you describe, but rather an attack on Roe v. Wade and a woman's right to choose since 1973. That's the way -- it's not just the left. I submit to you that it is the majority of women and the majority of America.

CARLSON: But do you think honestly a decent person could look at those videos, leaving aside all the politics of it and say, "You know what? I'm OK with that"? Who could say that?

RIVERA: No. Why do we approach -- this -- the videos are horrifying. But how long have we seen -- I remember for years outside right here at 1211 Avenue of the Americas there was a guy out there with a great big poster of an aborted fetus. And he used to stand there. And we -- you look at it and you go, "I don't want to look at that."

GUTFELD: But you know, that's how the Planned Parenthood award works. You would look at those people. And I know what you mean. I would be one of those guys that would look away. But you would walk away and you'd think that that guy actually is doing something. He's saying to the world...

RIVERA: Do you think that? Or do you think that he's a nut job?

PERINO: Oh, wow.

GUTFELD: I will say that there are times extreme -- you know, you would think maybe somebody is a little crazy. But what this guy is trying to do is saying to the world that it's passing this by. Do not forget because no one is speaking for these. These unborn children. And you have to say yes.

It's weird. It's disturbing. It ruins your shopping day when you're shopping but it's got to be there.

PERINO: But remember, that the White House said nobody at the White House has watched any of the videos.

BILA: Right.

PERINO: So willful ignorance, basically, that's what they're doing. They're trying to figure out a way to not have to talk about this and to let it go.

RIVERA: Did they really say that?

PERINO: Yes, they did. Social media, though, is the great equalizer to biased media coverage.

RIVERA: I agree with that.

PERINO: And conservatives are smart. They'll continue to push on it. Because you have an upper hand on it.

BILA: It's also an organization, remember, that gets taxpayer money. So if there's something going on I think people have a right to know. And media has the responsibility to report that. That's our money.

Don't go away. "Facebook Friday" is next.



GUTFELD: We answer your questions now. It's "Facebook Friday." My favorite part of the day.

Dana, we're going to go this way. OK? First question from Sally T.: "Who's the most interesting person you've ever met?" And don't say George Bush.

PERINO: And don't say George Bush?

GUTFELD: You just said him.

PERINO: I would put him at the top. The most interesting person I've ever met? I thought it was -- can I pass?

GUTFELD: All right. Say George Bush.

PERINO: OK, George Bush. It's hard. Like the thing because I was very privileged, right? I got to meet a lot of amazing people.

GUTFELD: You met a lot of famous people.

PERINO: The president of Liberia, Eleanor [SIC] Johnson Sirleaf, that's -- she's a remarkable woman.

GUTFELD: All right.

PERINO: I got to meet her.

GUTFELD: That will work. OK. Tucker.

CARLSON: I practiced (ph) with her in -- over there in Ghana. I thought she was super interesting. My whole life is meeting interesting people. That's the whole point of journalism.

GUTFELD: Pick one, for God's sake.

CARLSON: Pick one? I don't know. I would have to say the late congressman from the Mahoning Valley of Ohio, Jim Traficant.

GUTFELD: The man with the greatest hair. Which turned out to be a wig.

CARLSON: Yes. There were layers to him we didn't even know about.

GUTFELD: Yes, James Traficant was a legend. More like traffic can, am I right?

CARLSON: Traffic can't in the end.


RIVERA: Go to jail.

GUTFELD: Geraldo, most interesting. You've met everybody.

RIVERA: I have.

GUTFELD: And probably slept with half of them.

RIVERA: That's another story or another show.

GUTFELD: That would be a good show.

RIVERA: Elvis.

PERINO: Elvis?

RIVERA: Sinatra. I would say...

GUTFELD: Elvis Sinatra? Who's that?

RIVERA: You know, Jagger, all the Beatles. I would say Fidel Castro.

GUTFELD: Fidel Castro? Oh. You had to ruin it with that.

RIVERA: Meet him at 3 in the morning and spend the rest of the night.

GUTFELD: That's beautiful.

RIVERA: Big feathered bed.

GUTFELD: I hope he sent you flowers.

Jedediah, who is your most interesting?

BILA: Everyone is talking about famous people. And mine is that I met a mime when I was in Paris when I was a kid. And he followed us around everywhere. But he was so cool and so awesome. I never forgot him. He never said a word. But he was just so full of awesome.

PERINO: Sounds like the perfect man.

BILA: Yes. He was.

CARLSON: If a mime dies in the woods and no one hears it does anyone care?

BILA: I care because I love mimes.

GUTFELD: Well, I would say -- I'd have to say Johnny Rotten. Just because I -- as a teenager...

CARLSON: Johnny Rotten?

GUTFELD: Idolizing somebody. Or Mike Patton, who I idolize. Like, rock legends I always like, the people that I listen to and then I meet them. Then I'm, like, excited.

PERINO: I met Dierks Bentley.

GUTFELD: That doesn't count.

All right. Now we go this way. John P. asks Jedediah, "Who was your favorite cartoon or comic strip character?"

BILA: Oh, my gosh. That's so hard. I mean, I don't have a favorite -- I mean, my favorite cartoon growing up, my actual cartoon was the Smurfs. I wanted to be Smurfette, because I wanted to be outnumbered in that way, as opposed to outnumbered the way I am.

But comics, I don't know. I actually don't have like a -- I didn't wake up and read the comics. Comic books, though, Spider-man, everybody knows that.

GUTFELD: There you go. You answered the question in your own weird way. Geraldo.

RIVERA: Prince Valiant.

GUTFELD: Are you serious?

PERINO: I loved that. My godmother moved to a city in Chicago. They didn't have that in the paper. And then so I used to cut it out in Denver.

RIVERA: Oh, that's sweet.

PERINO: And I'd save them up and mail them to her once a month.

GUTFELD: Prince Valiant? And mine was Mary Worth.

What is wrong with you people?

CARLSON: Especially when the obvious answer is Calvin and Hobbs. Calvin and Hobbs. Like how could you not -- Bill the Cat from Bloom County, but really Hobbs was even better.


PERINO: I'm going to go with The Far Side.

GUTFELD: Far Side was great.

BILA: That was good.

PERINO: I loved The Far Side. I also loved Cathy.

GUTFELD: You're weird.

CARLSON: Are you serious?

PERINO: I liked Cathy.

CARLSON: Nothing ever happened to Cathy.

GUTFELD: She always wore oversized sweatshirts.

PERINO: It was like the opposite of body builders, body-building men.

GUTFELD: My favorite was For Better or Worse.

CARLSON: Not really.

GUTFELD: No, I hated those. I -- what did I like? I liked The Far Side. And I hated Bizarro, the rip off of The Far Side. You know, whenever he did a rip-off of something, it bothered you. How dare you? Gary Larson then retired!

RIVERA: What do you think of Doonesbury?


GUTFELD: More like poo-berry.

CARLSON: It's bad. It's like so relentlessly bad, I kind of stand back and marvel at it.

RIVERA: It's relentlessly ideological. And also...

CARLSON: But it's also stupid and heavy-handed and soviet.

GUTFELD: You know what it benefits from? Liberal media welfare. If that was a conservative comic strip, it never -- that was unfunny conservative...

CARLSON: Every character looks the same. He's not even a good artist.

GUTFELD: Yes. All right. We've got to -- let's go. Let me see. I'll start with you and then go this way. Do you want a barbecue question?


RIVERA: A barbecue question?

GUTFELD: We'll skip the one and do the dream job, OK? What would be your dream job if you were not working for FOX? This is from Michael C.

CARLSON: I've been fired from every other dream job, so this is pretty much it.

RIVERA: An astronaut.

GUTFELD: You'd be an astronaut?

RIVERA: I'd love to go in...

GUTFELD: You could fill the first syllable. I'm joking.

I apologize for that one. That was out of line. Astronaut, though, that's pretty good.

BILA: Lion tamer.


RIVERA: Really?

BILA: I like cats. I do. I'm dead serious. I know everyone thinks I'm being cute. I like cats.

CARLSON: Cougars?

BILA: Yes.

RIVERA: Cats and mimes.

GUTFELD: Cats and mimes. Put them together in a blender.

What would you be?

PERINO: Well, something that I've want to do before this show started, I was thinking about -- I had my own business and that was great. But I wanted to go to Africa and try to coordinate the NGO efforts, sort of the money that's coming from America that -- instead of giving it to the corrupt governments, there's like a lot of good organizations. I wanted to help coordinate that. That was kind of my dream job.

RIVERA: Isn't Bill Clinton's Foundation doing that? You could have gone to work for them.

CARLSON: And they're doing a great job. You can tell by the numbers in Africa, things are going great.

GUTFELD: Did I already ask you?

RIVERA: They're actually -- let's blame Hillary on that one.

GUTFELD: All right. I -- performance artist.

PERINO: Baloney.

GUTFELD: Yes, a performance artist.

CARLSON: You're already doing that.

GUTFELD: In a weird way my entire life has been performance art.

BILA: ... a little lemon (ph).

GUTFELD: Do you suffer from FOMO? If you leave now, you're going to miss out. That's what FOMO is.


RIVERA: Social media sites, let's talk about those. Facebook, Instagram, Twitter. Do they stress you out?

If so you might be suffering from FOMO. As if the millennials needed some other disease to -- to inflict their sense of ambition. FOMO is short for fear of missing out.

And here's the psychology professor who says that it is -- FOMO is a real condition. And he warns people to stay off social media, especially during the summer, when more people are vacationing and seeming happy.


ETHAN KROSS, PSYCHOLOGY PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN: As you browse these pictures of other people's lives, that leads people to feel more envy or jealousy. And it's those feelings in turn lead you to feel worse over time. When you constantly compare your own life to other people's lives, if everyone else's life looks fantastic, you're going to feel bad.

It's really important to strike a balance between how frequently we're engaging with these online social networks. The more you interact with other people directly, the better you feel.


RIVERA: You know, I was on the elevator coming here. There were four guys on the elevator, all of them looking at their hand-held devices. No one looking around. No one could see who else was in the elevator. They weren't looking up. I was looking at them.

But I mean, there is an envy factor, isn't there? You see everybody's happy. Everybody's in France or, you know, the Grand Canyon. They're with their children. I mean, do you think that it goes too far? Do you think that we put too much value in celebrity fun?

CARLSON: Is that a serious question?

RIVERA: Come on.

CARLSON: This is envy. Moses addressed this in the Ten Commandments. It's bad for you.

RIVERA: Did he have a hand-held device?

CARLSON: No, he didn't, but...

GUTFELD: He had a tablet.

CARLSON: He understood human nature.

That was brilliant. Can we stop this, everybody? He had a tablet.

RIVERA: Better than ass-tronaut.

CARLSON: It's too good. I can't even deal with this. I have more to say, but I'm just going to -- I bow before your throne.

RIVERA: I just saw him chipping away at that thing.

CARLSON: That's brilliant.

RIVERA: But Dana, do you -- first of all, do you share your personal holidays...

PERINO: Like when I'm looking at everybody's had a great summer vacation, and I haven't?

RIVERA: Yes, big smiles? The kids look great?

PERINO: I think that might be a little bit. I have it in a slightly different way. I have a fear of missing out on the news. Like I want to know more than everybody else. Like did you see that article? Did you not? Because it makes me feel powerful. If I miss the news for 24 hours, I start getting anxiety.

RIVERA: But do you ever feel depressed that someone's so happy?

PERINO: No, I don't. But I do think that this goes back to -- remember in high school if you didn't get invited to the party, and you're upset because you didn't get invited to that particular party? I just think this is an age-old problem for humans. Millennials just have to deal with it on social media.

RIVERA: And do you think, Greg, that misanthropes like you, when you cheer people's failure and their pain, you know...

GUTFELD: It hurts.

RIVERA: ... does it really hurt you conversely, when you do that?

GUTFELD: I don't like a lot of people -- I will say this. I don't like -- I don't like FOMOs. I might be FOMOphobic. And if FOMOsexuals decide to marry, I'm going to stop it because it's not natural.

PERINO: It's against the Constitution.

GUTFELD: It's against the Constitution. And I don't want any FOMO anchor babies, either. Or anchor tissue.

BILA: So live it out? Some of it.

RIVERA: I try to ignore him.

BILA: He's impossible. You can't do it. You've just got to go with it. Let him have the stage for a while.

GUTFELD: I'm sorry.

BILA: No, it's true. I don't know. I mean, I guess...

RIVERA: He envies tall people on social media. That one's too tall. Now I'm really angry.

BILA: That's why he's mad. I don't know, Geraldo.

PERINO: Geraldo, I said he was going to get Greg back. He got you.

GUTFELD: That hurts.

BILA: He got you.

RIVERA: Ass-tronaut.

BILA: You've ruined the rest of the segment, Greg. So...

RIVERA: One More Thing is next. Don't go away.


PERINO: Time for "One More Thing." I've got some good news. Malala Yousafzai -- do you remember her? She was the young girl who in Pakistan was shot in the face by the Taliban because she had a blog about how important it was for every girl to get educated. She has dedicated her life to make sure all children in the world could have a chance at education. She now lives in the United Kingdom.

And the good news is she received six A's in her exam this year. That was in biology, chemistry, physics, religious studies, math, in international version of a math certificate. This is a tweet from her father, who has actually done an amazing job supporting her. "My wife, Tor Pekai, and I are proud of Malala. Education for every child."

So we've been following her story and want to wish her congratulations.

RIVERA: Absolutely.


BILA: Wonderful.


GUTFELD: Now from a truly wonderful person to...


GUTFELD: I hate these people!


GUTFELD: Dressed exactly like that right now.

Let's talk about something that I'm seeing everywhere. They're called man buns. Actors -- let's roll this. You see them on actors. You see them on baristas. You see them usually among your waiters, as well.

I don't know how this started. And I don't want to know why. But I'm asking America, I'm not saying -- I'm not saying to you go up and cut them off with a pair of scissors because, that would be illegal in itself. I'm saying I want you to walk up to a man with a man bun and I want you to point at it and go, "Ha ha ha. You are a joke." And I want you to do that to every single man bun until there are no more man buns.

CARLSON: Man bun cleansing?

GUTFELD: It's time. It's time, Tucker.


GUTFELD: I've seen too many of these.

RIVERA: You're making me nervous.

CARLSON: Really?

GUTFELD: You should be nervous.

PERINO: Jedediah, do you want to comment on the man bun or move on?

BILA: I think you should make it part of your presidential platform.


BILA: Run for office, no more man buns.

GUTFELD: I'd deport the man buns.

PERINO: That's a movement I could get behind.

GUTFELD: I'd build a wall.

BILA: All right. We have a Phoenix police lieutenant, amazing guy. His name is Tom Van Dorn. And he believes in building a bond with the community, going into the community and working things out in his own way. Here he is taking a dance class with Greg Gutfeld.


BILA: See Greg's in the back over there. You can't see him.




PERINO: You probably love it.

BILA: We say that the police needs to establish a better relationship with the community. We talk about it all the time. The dance was amazing. I say amazing job. I'm excited about it.

PERINO: I like it. All right. Tucker.

CARLSON: I've got a pretty low power one.

PERINO: Oh, no.

CARLSON: This is where I spent last week. This is a cabin in the woods of western Maine. It's only got two rooms. And we fit 11 people and five dogs.

GUTFELD: That's crazy.

CARLSON: Siblings, children, nieces, nephews...

RIVERA: How about black flies?

CARLSON: ... in that thing. And it was something I'll be -- it was the highlight of my year.

RIVERA: Aw. How long were you in there?

CARLSON: Two lessons. Not that long. Keep your loved ones close. Really close. And get outside in the summertime.

PERINO: And keep your dogs closer.

CARLSON: All five in that cabin.

PERINO: I would love that.

CARLSON: A lot of dogs.

PERINO: All right, Geraldo.

RIVERA: Craig just e-mailed me, my brother Craig, that someone just 15 minutes ago on "Live at Five," the local program here in New York, grabbed the microphone and said "'F' you Geraldo" but then he said the whole thing. And then Craig wrote back, "Was it Greg Gutfeld?"

GUTFELD: It was during the commercial break.

RIVERA: I have to talk about a terrible -- I hate to end the week this way. But Wall Street was an absolute disaster. Just to give you an idea, down 530 on the Dow, those 30 stocks. But to give you an idea of what this really means, and I hate to ruin your weekend, my weekend. I've got to work until I'm 115 years old.

Today the market lost $725 billion in shareholder money, value. And over this week it's $1.4 trillion lost. So it's been an awful, awful week. I think things have come back next week. But this one is...

PERINO: How will we make America great again?

All right. Set your DVR so you never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us. Great weekend. "Special Report" is next.

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