THE FIVE

Does Rick Perry deserve a second look from voters?

Former Texas governor announces second presidential bid

 

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," June 4, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Eric Bolling along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

Some big 2016 developments today, a 10th Republican has entered the contest, a man who tried once already in 2012, but fizzled out following a debate gaffe and other stumbles. Rick Perry came out swinging earlier in his home state of Texas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICK PERRY, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're at the end of an era of failed leadership. We have been led by a divider who has sliced and diced the electorate, pitting American against American for political purposes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: And then, he made it official.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PERRY: The fundamental nature of this country is our people never stay knocked down. We get back up. We don't have to apologize for American exceptionalism or western values. We don't have to resign ourselves to debt, decay and slow growth. We have the power to make things new again, to project America's strength again and to get our economy going again. And that is exactly why today, I am running for the presidency of the United States of America.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: And Jeb Bush, a man who hopes to beat Perry tweeted that his announcement will happen on June 15th, fronting the Donald who may or may not announce the very following day, K.G., your thoughts on a very passionate Rick Perry.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Yeah, I like it. He was fired up. I'm liking Rick Perry 2.0. I like somebody who gets after it, he's passionate about it. I think he really wants to be president of the United States. That's the feeling I'm getting from him. So, he had a nice rollout today, seems strong, obviously in better health, remember last time when he had the back issues, that was very tough for him because he had tremendous promise then. You know I don't count anybody out at this point. You never know what can happen. That's the great thing about American politics.

BOLLING: Dana, your thoughts on Perry's first announcement.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: So last time when he was running he was also the governor of Texas and now he's past that baton on to Governor Abbott. And I think that he has been able to dedicate a significant amount of time to improving his speaking skills. The delivery today was -- it was a well written speech but also the delivery was just a lot different than you would have seen, three or four years ago when he was running against Romney. At that time when he was up against Romney, he was actually doing pretty well.

GUILFOYLE: Well.

PERINO: But up into that debate, he was sort of sliding down. Before that debate, where he forgot the third thing, which all of us have done but he happened to do it on national television, says oops. And instead of being forgiven for having like human moment, he was ridiculed for it, soon after drops out of the race and Mitt Romney went on to be the nominee. I agree, I wouldn't count him out, I do think it's going to be a tough road for any of this candidates to try to break through. We're at the beginning of a race that is so flat that almost any of them could be picked out of the lineup and said, he could be the nominee.

BOLLING: What you think Greg? He's 10th which could -- in a field that could be 20 or more.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: All right. I just want to congratulate Dana, on her new job as a cruise --

PERINO: Thank you.

GUTFELD: Cruise director of Carnival Cruise Lines.

PERINO: Yes. I'm also -- I'm a chef.

GUILFOYLE: Top, top chef.

GUTFELD: Oh, you're a chef.

PERINO: Yeah.

GUILFOYLE: And a rapper.

GUTFELD: She does the buffet.

GUILFOYLE: Don't forget that.

GUTFELD: The key here is like you said, Perry sounds great. I admire him for getting back on the horse, but it doesn't make any difference if he keeps falling off. So I -- I would hope that he is, he's doing more research and he is more well prepared because again, I say this over and over again. It's not enough to be right because he is right, you got to be persuasively right, got to be intellectually agile, and I think he can do it. I also kind of like the glasses because I don't think we've had a president.

GUILFOYLE: Where are yours?

GUTFELD: With glasses -- I know, they are gone. I sat on them. Since -- is Teddy Roosevelt, last guy with glasses? I can't think. Was FDR wear glasses?

PERINO: Well, going on my -- I didn't know him personally.

GUTFELD: FDR had grasses, I believe. I would like to see a president with a monocle.

GUILFOYLE: Well, I don't about that. But also, he had a great group of Americans behind him. He had Marcus and Morgan Luttrell. Brothers are both at that field before and also, Pete Scobell and you have Taya Kyle, who made some --

PERINO: She was an excellent.

GUILFOYLE: Earlier today, yeah.

PERINO: She was on (inaudible). She was talking about her support for Rick Perry and why she supports him, I thought that was one of her strongest advocates was certainly was Ms. Taya.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. She was on (inaudible) without standing.

BOLLING: Let me bring Juan in here. Juan, one of the strengths that Rick Perry's always had is his job growth, job creation in Texas. He's always been strong with that -- he did, he had that oops moment, but will the GOP field voter get that oops moment behind them based on his -- you know, his record?

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: You know the job creation is important I think, but it's not the critical issue for Republicans and I think that's why you hear Kimberly talk about the two SEAL team members behind on that picture there, but top issue for Republicans is national security. And so he says, he's gonna go hard on national security, you heard him talk about not making excuses, America is going to be a force. But you know what? I've got to tell you, I remember going through this with Pick Perry one time. I'm here by the way, Greg, that he's not -- doesn't have the boots this time. He kept the glasses, but he got rid of the cowboy boots.

GUTFELD: That's good.

WILLIAMS: But I think this is almost to me less of a campaign and more of a mea culpa. I think he's like saying, you know, I'm sorry I let you guys down in '12 and there were a lot of people who were big behind him. Right now, he's not getting the money from Republicans. He's got to have a hard time. He's got very little margin for error and the mea culpa is almost to his wife Anita, who was the one pushing him back in '12 when he really wasn't ready, when he hadn't prepped, he had the back trouble. Now you know she says we will see how it goes, and I think that for him it's almost like, one last stop before retirement.

BOLLING: One last thing --

GUILFOYLE: I don't think it's like that. I think he really wants the job. He has been very serious about if for quite some time and now that stuff is behind him. Let's see what he can do.

BOLLING: All right, let's bring this in. Hillary Clinton made an announcement today of a different kind, a call for an expansion of early voting nationwide.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Today, Republicans are systematically and deliberately trying to stop millions of American citizens from voting. What part of democracy are they afraid of? I call on Republicans at all levels of government, with all manner of ambition, to stop fear mongering about a phantom epidemic of election fraud. I'm calling for universal, automatic voter registration, every citizen in every state in the union.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: Wow, Dana, what is behind this push?

PERINO: Well, it's Groundhog Day, OK. This is what -- do you look at what Rick Perry was talking about? That was talking to the Republican, the Republican base. Hillary Clinton is talking to the Democrats and this issue of voters' rights -- talk about a phantom issue. Asked about specifics, she probably couldn't have come up with any, but this will be something that Republicans all of the sudden, immediately see what they do. They immediately put you under defensive. It's like I'm not trying to prevent anybody from voting. So it will take a little while to find out if there's anybody on the Republican ticket, you can push back with facts and be persuasive because I think that voting rights and figuring out a way to make sure that more people can register and more people can get to the polls is something that Republicans have actually been for, all across the country. If you look at governors, Governor Daniels, Governor Haley, two that come to mind have increased their voter rolls.

BOLLING: What's behind it, Greg? What do you think?

GUTFELD: I don't know. I just -- I ask it, it's a very simple question, what are your priorities? In an era of ISIS, you've got Iran.

PERINO: Yup.

GUTFELD: You got Syria, you've got a crime rate -- crime wave right now in the United States and she's talking about this. Democrats right now are in a fun house mirror, a view of the world where all of the priorities are skewed or reversed, that can only be good for Republicans.

BOLLING: I'm still -- how is this better for Hillary if she gets 20 extra days of early voting, across the country?

WILLIAMS: Well, I tell you, I feel like I'm in a different place today because I just -- Dana, I just think that you know, when you say there are no facts, there are facts. There's no extension of voting rights act. She's speaking to a black audience down in Texas, she is making a huge pitch for the black vote, which of course came out for a black candidate in Obama, but she has got to worry that she's not going to have that same passion coming out of minorities communities. She's also going to make a pitch for the Hispanic vote in much the same way I suspect. But right now, she is saying this is a big issue Greg, this is not a fun house mirror issue for black folks. They feel like, you know what, there's a big effort across this country with -- and this is speaking to Dana's point, I disagree. There is no evidence of voter fraud, but you would think listening to the Republicans --

PERINO: That's not true, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Oh, there's voter fraud everywhere.

GUTFELD: No, no -- I'm not. I guess I'm not thinking that you're right. I'm not thinking about black votes, you're absolutely right. I'm thinking about American votes and American -- all Americans, black or white have to be concerned about what's happening in this world.

WILLIAMS: Yeah.

GUTFELD: Which is, -- a major terror threat.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, but if you feel, feel personally that people are trying to disenfranchise you and you're black --

GUILFOYLE: How are you getting disenfranchised? Go vote. You know, go register a vote, then go get yourself to the polls and make a count. I'm all for that. I want people to vote, I want them to pay attention. I want them to get up and go and vote and care about this country, inform themselves about the issues and I also want them to not vote for somebody just based on gender or race, based on qualification.

BOLLING: All right.

GUILFOYLE: So I don't understand where the evidence is.

PERINO: You're certainly asking a lot requesting a lot, Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: I mean, gosh, you're right.

(LAUGHTER)

BOLLING: Look --

(LAUGHTER)

BOLLING: It's worked. It's worked up until now Hillary wants to revamp the system. This was amazing to me today, though. A new challenger for Hillary entered the race actually, yesterday afternoon. Former Rhode Island Governor Lincoln Chafee is going to need some bold proposals if he's going to beat her out for the nomination, so here is one.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LINCOLN CHAFEE, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Earlier, I said let's be bold. Here is a bold embrace of internationalism. Let's join the rest of the world and go metric. It's easy. It doesn't take long before 34 degrees is hot, and it will help our economy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: So Chafee --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Suggest going metric. The United States will be able to compete. His president -- the first thing he would do as president would be, turn the United States into the metric system. Turn them to the metric system. He's joined by his self described socialist and former secretary of state who can't find her way out of a scandal. Nice job, Democrats, so far. Greg?

GUTFELD: I think, I think he's absolutely right, the metric system was designed to get people to enter charity runs. Do you think you would go run a 3.1 mile race? No, but if somebody says, hey, 5k. You go, 5k sounds pretty impressive. Besides, I really enjoy the 2 liter bottles of coke. And I don't like -- I don't understand why a 40 is a quarter of beer when a 40 is 40 ounces. It's time to embrace the metric system. You've got my vote Linc, and his name is Lincoln. We didn't do -- that's another Lincoln.

PERINO: It's also Chafee.

GUTFELD: It can't hurt to have a new Lincoln.

PERINO: It's also Chafee, though.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

GUILFOYLE: Even though it's not a first.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: And you chafe, you chafe when you run -- a 5K.

GUILFOYLE: A 5K.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: Lincoln Chafee.

BOLLING: Which is 3.2 miles, if I'm not mistaken.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, yeah.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: This is like a sesame street episode or something.

PERINO: If I were a reporter --

BOLLING: Is this a joke?

PERINO: I will. It does look like a joke. I have a theory. It's going to be revealed in about six months that he's being paid.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

PERINO: By the Clinton global initiative.

BOLLING: Yup.

PERINO: Because that's how absurd it was. I wish -- if I were a reporter, that you could come up with so many things to just say, Governor Chafee, could you tell us how many inches in a meter? And see -- just play this game for like nine months.

BOLLING: But he lived in Canada for a while --

PERINO: Maybe he can do it.

BOLLING: He is probably the one guy who would be able to do it. Juan --

PERINO: Me and my husband.

BOLLING: Where is Joe Biden?

GUILFOYLE: (inaudible)

BOLLING: I mean, I see --

WILLIAMS: Well, no. I said --

BOLLING: This is all --

WILLIAMS: This is good.

BOLLING: Democrats are gonna put up --

WILLIAMS: No, that's a great question.

BOLLING: With the metric system.

WILLIAMS: You know.

BOLLING: And a socialist. How about Joe Biden?

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: I was going to tell you --

BOLLING: I would give him a run.

WILLIAMS: Well, Joe Biden is second in the Fox poll that's out today --

GUILFOYLE: I like Joe Biden.

WILLIAMS: You know, and so Joe Biden is ahead of Bernie Sanders. Bernie Sanders is there and then you come way down -- I mean, Chafee is not registering. I'd say -- but I think it's a little bit of a joke. I thought the metric thing. I was like, what is --

GUILFOYLE: Would you support --

WILLIAMS: What is going on?

GUILFOYLE: Would you support Biden over Hillary?

WILLIAMS: Over Hillary? No.

PERINO: Would you support the metric system change?

WILLIAMS: No, I don't know. I have to speak to my teacher. Dr. Gutfeld.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: I think it could be -- it could spark a war. I do feel strongly.

WILLIAMS: But I will say this. In the polling, it's interesting now who is out on the Republican side for the top 10. No Fiorina, no Graham, who I saw last night here in Manhattan. No Casey, no Pataki, no Santorum, no Jindal.

PERINO: No, but remember, the Fox debate is not based on the Fox News poll. It's gonna be --

WILLIAMS: Yeah, Yeah.

GUILFOYLE: It's the same --

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: I was just giving you -- yeah, I was just giving you --

GUILFOYLE: Based on the metric system that just in.

WILLIAMS: Oh it's --

(LAUGHTER)

WILLIAMS: That's great.

GUILFOYLE: Go Lincoln, go Lincoln.

(LAUGHTER)

BOLLING: All right.

GUILFOYLE: Well.

BOLLING: Are we good? Good to go?

GUILFOYLE: Totally.

BOLLING: All right, here we go. Make sure you catch Hannity's exclusive hour long interview with Rick Perry tonight, at 10 p.m. Eastern. But up next, part one of Megyn Kelly's exclusive interview with the Duggar family aired last night and she will be here to tell us what we can expect in part two, that airs tomorrow, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUILFOYLE: If you have young ones in the room you might want to have them step away. It's been two weeks since the Duggar family's long time secret was revealed, that the oldest child of 19 kids molested young girls when he was a teen. Last night, parents Michelle and Jim Bob spoke to Fox News about the scandal. They said they learned about the abuse directly from their son Josh.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIM BOB DUGGAR, TV PERSONALITY: He had just turned 14 and he said that he had actually improperly touched some of our daughters and it was --

MICHELLE DUGGAR, TV PEROSNALITY: We were socked. I mean, we were just devastated. I don't think any parent is prepared for trauma like that.

J.B. DUGGAR: He had gone in and just, basically touched them over their clothes while they were sleeping, they didn't even know he had done it.

MEGYN KELLY, THE KELLY FILE SHOW HOST: Just to clear (ph), it was four daughters and there was a baby-sitter outside of the family.

J.B. DUGGAR: Yes.

KELLY: OK. And you, you notified her about the incident?

J.B. DUGGAR: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Although the Duggars understand why this has made national news, they are blaming the juvenile justice system for letting this information get out, hurting the victims more than their son did.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J.B. DUGGAR: This information was released illegally, and so I wonder why all this press is not going after the system for releasing these juvenile records. That is a huge story.

M. DUGGAR: They've been victimized more by what has happened in these last couple weeks. And they were 12 years ago because they honestly -- they didn't even understand or know that anything had happened until, after the fact when they were told about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Two of those victims revealed their identities on the Kelly File. Duggar's sister Jessa and Jill are very upset about this new violation of their privacy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JILL DILLARD, DUGGAR SISTER: People don't have a right to do this. We're victims, this they can't do this to us.

KELLY: And yet they did?

DILLARD: And they did.

JESSA SEEWALD, DUGGAR SISTER: The system that was set up to protect kids, both those who make stupid mistakes or have problems like this in their life and the ones that are affected by those choices. It's just -- it's greatly failed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: You will hear more from them in part two of Megyn's interview, tomorrow night. She's here with us now to discuss. So Megyn, that great (inaudible) and interview, a very compelling television, we're going to see more of it going forward. What I wanted to know those two was, were you able to get some information from them whether aired or not about Josh? What is he doing now in the aftermath of all of this?

KELLY: I think the family is still reeling. They're -- especially Josh. And obviously, he has had to step down from his post at the family research council and the family doesn't know whether their TLC show is going to go forward, although, I think they said they are at peace with that. I mean, they have -- Jim Bob made his living on real estate and they're doing OK, and that -- I don't think they depend on the show for their livelihood. But everyone is still reeling. I mean, and you could really see it in the sit down that I had with the girls, where they started off very bubbly and -- you know, your normal 22-year-old, 24-year-old girls are still laughing and, you know on the subject matter they were upbeat and really talkative and then the more we got into it. Especially, into the fact that it's been so publicized and they didn't disclose it at their own choosing, but it wound up, you know in touch weekly broke the story. And to see -- you know the magazine covers, house of horrors, they, they, -- they got very emotional and I think they really do feel the violation of their privacy. It's a separate piece of story. Some people you talk about that and some people who have been following this say, you're trying to diminish what he did. No one is trying to diminish anything. These are sexual assault victims who are entitled to their privacy. And those who want to go on TV and talk about the girls, the girls, the girls, this is wrong. What Josh did was wrong -- you're right. What the parents did in not reporting it immediately and so on -- well, where is that same outrage at the fact that the girls' privacy, their sexual assault which we as news organizations, (inaudible) --

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

KELLY: To keep private.

GUILFOYLE: Chill (ph).

KELLY: We are not supposed to reveal the identity of sexual assault victims, adults or minors. We chose not to do this as news organizations, have done it with abandon. I mean, without even pausing in so many instances and it's wrong.

GUILFOYLE: With reckless abandon causing further injury to them and that is part of the whole process when someone goes through this type of sexual assault, sexual abuse and it just, you know reignites and comes to the surface when you have to talk about it again and be expose in this way. Dana, you have a question?

PERINO: Were they totally blind-sided by this? Or did they have any idea that it was coming before it was --

KELLY: I asked them that. Because I said, you know the story from the police chief down there, this Kathy O'Kelly is, well, I received the Freedom of Information Act request from a magazine and I had no information but to honor it. I have looked at the law. The law does not allow the disclosure of a juvenile's sealed record, especially the Victims, but Josh himself was a juvenile when he committed these acts.

PERINO: Right.

KELLY: The law protects them for a reason. We've made a decision as a society that we're not going to hold them to the same standard as we hold adults. And the only two exceptions to the rule are -- is it a judge orders it be released or if the juvenile has been charged with a felony? Neither of which happened in this case. So I'm waiting, I've reached out to the police chief to you say explain why or the city attorney, explain why you did it. What was the reason? No response. But we know that the judge in the case, the day after this was released, said everything gets destroyed. That's it. I want every copy of this police record destroyed. So the judge is on the side of the Duggars when it comes to this, you know exposure, this violation.

GUILFOYLE: All right, Eric, you have a question?

BOLLING: Their motivation, Megyn. Why did they agree to do this?

KELLY: I think they're looking to release some of the pressure. I mean, I think the family was sort of moving along on their TLC reality show, then this broke -- I mean, they're hugely popular. I had never seen the show. I knew who they were, but I had never watched the show, but the daughter's wedding -- you know, the one of the daughters who we showed there, it was the highest rated show on TLC in years when she got married. So this is, you know, this is something they do. And I think that they were shocked to see their story wind up in a, you know -- magazine. And then, the way it spread, it was wildfire. Everybody put them on the cover, their magazines and put them in their shows and so on. As they say, without a pause for what it would mean and I think they felt like they had to speak out about it at this point.

GUILFOYLE: Greg.

GUTFELD: All right. I honestly do not get the appeal. If I want to see 19 kids, I will go to Chuck E. Cheese's. This is a whole world that I have no interest in it, but I will say this. What's interesting to me, how did the family research council hire this guy? This is the most trident organization when it comes to what they perceive to be as deviancy and they chose this guy because he was famous, no doubt. They chose him because he was famous and somehow they were all right with this? I mean, I'm sorry, but --

KELY: Why do you say they were all right with it? Because we haven't yet established that they knew anything about it.

GUTFELD: Why did they make him president? I assume --

KELLY: But you are assuming they knew about it.

GUTFELD: Yeah, I did. I assume. I thought they did. Didn't he make, didn't know -- did he tell them? I thought he did tell them.

KELLY: No, we don't -- that has not been established.

GUTFELD: I thought I read that somewhere.

KELLY: No.

GUTFELD: Anyway, it's something --

KELLY: And it is one thing if they knew, if they knew and gave them this job that --

GUTFELD: Yeah.

KELLY: That's a problem for them because the hypocrisy angle of it is real.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

KELLY: It's real. And I asked the Duggars about that. You know it's, a lot of families have issues in their past, right? And especially, if you're gonna go back and look at somebody's behavior in the teens, it's not always ideal.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

KELLY: It's not always this bad.

GUTFELD: Yeah. Also, the other hypocrisy is the publicity, moaning about publicity, while you have your family on TV for years.

KELLY: Well, and I asked them about that because they had gotten through this. You know the investigation had concluded, the police -- they told the police. The police ultimately investigated. And so, what would make you go on and launch a reality TV show about your family, right? If you've weathered the storm, and they said, look, you know people were -- there was growing interest in our family, it started off with an hour long special, someone wanted to do on all of our kids and it sort of morphed into more and more, and we thought this was behind us. I mean, we, we really thought the family had moved on, we dealt with it and that the records were sealed and our children would be protected from this particular thing. You know, they were obviously wrong.

WILLIAMS: So Megyn, Megyn, you know, part of this is so interesting to me. You are going to now talk to the victims. You gonna spend more time on the victims now having talked to the Duggars and heard their laments about the way the press treated them. So I'm watching last night, I'm thinking, the girls chose to come on and talk to Megyn. And then I see in the morning papers that their names were identified and several newspapers that said, we normally don't identify victims of sexual abuse but these girls are talking --

KELLY: That's right.

WILLIAMS: So they vowed themselves. Do you have that sense?

KELLY: They have, but you know, it's like the horse was brought to the water and the nose was put right over the water and now the girls are letting the horse drink. It's like -- it was right there. It was very easy to tell -- I mean, it was clear from the police report that the daughters had been victims. The only question was which daughters. And these two have chosen to identify themselves as two, but the reason I think they felt compelled to do it was, if you look at the coverage, Juan, there is a strong implication in a lot of the coverage we've seen that there was a rape, that it was repeated, that this is a serial child molester.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: But you are not talking to the baby-sitter, outside.

KELLY: Correct. And I don't even know that person's identity to this moment.

WILLIAMS: OK.

KELLY: So, I think they, they felt -- they didn't wanted people thinking they had been raped. I mean, they, they see a difference between --

WILLIAMS: Well, we are.

KELLY: Rape --

(CROSSTALK)

KELLY: And over their clothes, you know, sleep -- while sleeping --

GUILFOYLE: Right.

WILLIAMS: Well, it wasn't all over the clothes.

GUILFOYLE: Well, no. But nevertheless --

KELLY: No, it wasn't and --

WILLIAMS: OK.

GUILFOYLE: No, but nevertheless it is very serious. You know, the situation here with the molestation for me, as a prosecutor who tried child abuse and molestation cases, a lot of times this is learned behavior, there is a circumstance where someone has been exposed to, witnessed, seen it --

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: I'm just telling you.

KELLY: It said that you are right.

GUILFOYLE: I imagine there is just -- you know, more to the story --

KELLY: Believe me or not. I want there with them, and we -- that you will see that tomorrow night, when we air our interview with them.

GUILFOYLE: Now you know you don't want to miss it. Thanks, Megyn. Catch part two of her exclusive interview with the Duggars tomorrow night, on the Kelly file.

Next, Greg on the crime crisis in New York City, under Mayor Bill de Blasio's watch, stays tuned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: First, an apology to the rest of the country: This is about New York and its decline.

The de Blasio experiment must stop. Since this mayor got in, the city's drifting towards its old-school hell of rape, murder and assault. It's the progressive left's talent: Take a great place and defile it.

You want to talk about a war on women? Yesterday a transgendered woman was pushed onto the subway tracks by a free-range insaniac. Part Two: A ghoul slashed a Swedish tourist's face as she rode the train with her dad. Part Three: A woman was beaten and raped by three 16-year-olds. They left her bleeding to go ransack her apartment. So far this year, Central Park was home to six rapes. This time last year, none.

It's all happening during a crime wave under this left-wing lurch. Of the 135 homicides through May, 98 were gun-related, up from the 69 at this point the last two years.

The mayor blames this on a few high crime areas. That's a message to his white liberal supporters: Don't worry, you're safe in your doorman buildings. So as he demeans cops, kills "Stop and Frisk," which would have prevented gun deaths, he lets the criminally unstable roam the streets like a real-world version of the "Walking Dead."

These are the bubbles on the surface and it's about to boil over. We've got to dump this dangerous joke. Whether you're a city dweller or a tourist, you may be next. And if it's not you, it will be someone you know.

All right. I want to run a clip of -- this is the mayor explaining his successful drop in crime numbers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO, NEW YORK CITY: Overall crime is down 6.6 percent in this city compared to the same point last year. That is a remarkable achievement. There has been, obviously, an uptick in homicides and shootings. It is something we take very, very seriously. That being said, we know for sure that the increase in both murders and shootings has occurred in a small number of precincts.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: And rape. Over all, K.G., crime stats are down because of a decline in robberies. Rape and assault are up. Don't you think people would prefer to be robbed?

GUILFOYLE: I mean, my gosh, when choosing -- this is New York City now. Hi, welcome to New York state. Thank you. Please send your money here. We want to welcome all the tourists. You might get slashed in the face or you might get beaten and raped or the thing, but would you prefer to get robbed? We'd like to post that on the back. I mean, this is -- this is crazy.

All of the gains that we had made in this city about making it a safer place, a model for the rest of the country, the rest of the world to see in terms of community safety, neighborhoods and exceptional policing, have now been like swept away like a deck of cards across the floor. You know, and I know who to blame, too.

WILLIAMS: Is this because of Stop and Frisk? That's what you're saying?

GUILFOYLE: Bill de Blasio, his reckless and effect-less leadership.

WILLIAMS: Is the issue, the No. 1 issue the end of Stop and Frisk?

GUILFOYLE: It's one and the same, and I think that's the foremost -- if I had to say and if you percentaged it out, yes, I would say that that has the greater percentage of it. And in the larger picture of the matric, it's Bill de Blasio and his liberal leadership.

WILLIAMS: Don't you think that the fact that he ran on this and the people voted him into office is an indication that a lot of people are upset about that tactic...

GUILFOYLE: No, I don't. Because your math is wrong. Actually...

WILLIAMS: ... and felt that the cops were targeting them?

GUTFELD: People who live in those communities aren't upset. They want it back, because they're watching their neighbors getting shot.

GUILFOYLE: And it was very, very small voter turnout, unfortunately. I hope people have learned a lesson in terms of turning out to the polls. Otherwise, you end up with this.

GUTFELD: Eric, is the rise in crime also part of -- I mean, in part de Blasio's disowning of the police department has hurt their morale. It's not that they're not doing their job, though.

BOLLING: No, they'll do the job. But again, as Rudy Giuliani very, very poignantly points out, when you point the finger at the cops and they're the ones who have to run to the bad guy or into the store or into the fire, they're going to be -- they may hesitate for a second. And that's the difference between a crime rate being "X" or a crime rate being higher.

Violent crime rate, I'm trying to figure out how Bill de Blasio can claim that violent crime is down 6.6 percent versus a year ago, yet upticked recently.

GUILFOYLE: I know.

BOLLING: He left those uptick recently numbers off the year-over-year comparison. Otherwise, there would have to be a massive drop, and I don't think that's necessarily the case.

GUILFOYLE: Metric system.

BOLLING: Let me give you one business angle to this joker of a mayor. The West Side of New York is vast, from about the 30s all the way up to about the 60s, they've decided to do a five-year construction project on every east to west street on the West Side and two avenues. It encompasses about 30 percent of the city. All at once for five years.

Now, if you had any sense in the world he would to it rolling over the course of years, take a small section, then two years later do another section. Instead, he's doing it all at once. He's stifling -- this is bipartisan, by the way. He's stifling business and traffic on Manhattan. This is going to -- I guarantee the numbers that come back.

GUILFOYLE: Try living over there.

BOLLING: The numbers for revenue for the city are going to be slammed this year.

GUTFELD: Dana, one thing that we talked about, too, is about where do you put people who are mentally ill? Jails and shelters are just temporary cots. That's something that maybe a mayor could think about.

PERINO: It's always the root cause of everything that we go back to.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: And also, crime goes up usually in the summer and also because people that might have chosen to be in that homeless shelter in the winter, they don't like to be there. Typically, you know, it's just by anecdote, they don't want to be there. So they leave. And then they find a way into another place, where we actually should be trying to help them.

I walk on Broadway often, and I -- there's one gentleman, I see him there every day, and he's obviously in total distress. I don't know how to help him. There's people -- you could call a number and you get -- I did call a number one time in the city and you got, you know, call phone trace...

GUILFOYLE: Got to call 311.

PERINO: I try to put myself in his shoes. And if I'm the mayor, he's under an amazing amount of political pressure to try to turn things around, crime-wise, in the city. I don't know what it would take for him to actually have the competence to know that either the business community or his base is behind him, but somebody should tell him it will be OK for your legacy if you try to reverse some of the things you've put in place.

GUILFOYLE: Well, try not to be such a narcissist, so worried about himself and his legacy. Do the right thing and care about black lives and all lives in New York City.

WILLIAMS: They're throwing 300 -- they're throwing additional officers into high-crime areas. So...

GUILFOYLE: He created the situation.

WILLIAMS: You just want to blame him.

GUILFOYLE: He is to blame. His progressive failed policies. He's the new Dinkins.

WILLIAMS: This is all about Stop and Frisk, isn't it?

GUILFOYLE: All right. I'll answer the same question again.

GUTFELD: He should resign. Ahead, what retired four-star General David Petraeus thinks America needs to do differently in our war against ISIS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: The commander of U.S. forces during the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is very concerned about the growing threat of ISIS.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. DAVID PETRAEUS (RET.), FORMER COMMANDER OF U.S. FORCES IN IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN: ISIS clearly is a threat to the United States, to our allies and partners around the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: So what should we do? Here's what General David Petraeus suggests.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETRAEUS: I don't know that you need a whole new strategy. What you need to do is look at what you have, figure out where you need to augment. Do we need to bring advisors down to brigade level, for example? Should there be teams of joint tactical air controllers on the ground with a lot of security service?

CHARLIE ROSE, PBS NEWS: Should there be?

PETRAEUS: I think there probably should be.

ROSE: Is there risk to losing lives?

PETRAEUS: Certainly risk. There is risk. But there's also risk of not winning this fight. These are fights where, if you're not winning, you're probably losing. Because time is not on your side.

ROSE: And we are not winning?

PETRAEUS: Well, it's arguable now in Iraq.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: Kimberly, I thought he was trying to be gentle in his criticism of the Obama administration, but I think that he was coming out as a leader, saying we've got real problems.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. I mean, he was trying to approach it in a diplomatic way, but I think the message, you know, was clear. Much more should be done, can be done in a strategic way so it's not just, you know, running roughshod, putting large amounts of boots on the ground.

He's saying strategic advisors, a joint task force with air controllers, heavy secured and guarded, perhaps. Also augmenting at the brigade level. All these things make a lot of sense to me, especially if the goal is truly, in fact, to try and destroy ISIS and restore some balance to the Mideast.

PERINO: Eric, General Petraeus was certainly well-regarded by both administrations. He just did -- he was relieved of his command after the - - a revelation that he had provided assets to classified information to the woman who was writing his memoir. That is behind him. He is, I think, now willing to step out back in the public eye.

Do you think that the administration would pay attention to him now?

BOLLING: I think they should if they're not already. I mean, I don't know that they're not already listening to some of his ideas, and hopefully, they are.

I think he was being very political there by not saying -- he didn't say -- most people come out and say, "What is our strategy? We don't have a strategy; we need to fix this."

He said, "Well, maybe we just need to re-tweak what the current strategy is." So maybe he is talking to them and we, you know...

WILLIAMS: I think -- I don't mean to break in here, but I can tell you he's talking to them.

BOLLING: Good. So they're listening to him. Hopefully, they hear what he has to say and win this or go after ISIS. You know, everyone has a different idea. Lindsey Graham would say put 10,000 troops there. Start with 10,000, add another 10,000, and keep them there for 100 years. Hopefully, he doesn't go that far.

But then Petraeus makes some great points: get some advisors on the ground.

PERINO: I agree on the ISIS point, but Greg, one thing I think is a concern is that I don't -- he's saying that there's not a strategy for ISIS or in the Middle East. But what about overall? We're looking at a generational war against an ideology of evil.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: It's not just the ISIS piece.

GUTFELD: Well, it's kind of a sad state that we're in, because we can't even unite against real evil these face. In the old days, you know, we rose up and fought Hitler. And both Democrats and Republicans, you know, despised anti-communism. But the media these days thinks Christian bakers are worse than Islamic beheaders. We've totally recast the idea of evil.

Also the point he was making, which was we said many times is there may be risk now. But if you put it off, the risk is greater later. The argument is, if you keep saying it's not our fight, it will only lead to bigger and more and more terrible fights. And then you'll have to go in there and...

WILLIAMS: Let me just quickly mention here...

GUILFOYLE: Yes, it leads to our big problem.

WILLIAMS: Let me just quickly mention here, there was something that happened and I thought struck me as spin coming from the Obama folks today, which was...

GUTFELD: No.

WILLIAMS: ... one of the secretaries of state said there are 10,000 -- we've killed 10,000 members of ISIS. Well, this had been classified before. There are only about 20,000 to 30,000 estimated on the ground. And suddenly, I think, with all the criticism coming from this table, maybe they said, "You know, we need to mention how many of these terrorists we've killed," which is a substantial number.

BOLLING: They broke protocol with that, too.

WILLIAMS: They sure did. That's what I'm saying.

PERINO: Probably not the best idea to start getting into body counts.

WILLIAMS: No.

PERINO: Based on...

WILLIAMS: Sounds like Vietnam.

PERINO: Exactly. Next on "The Five," does being a jerk have its perks? Stay tuned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: If you're not getting ahead at work or other parts of your life, it may be a result of being too nice. According to analysis by the Atlantic magazine, jerks have advantages.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JERRY USEEM, THE ATLANTIC CONTRIBUTOR: Some jerkish behavior actually does get you ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Like?

USEEM: Overconfidence for one. If you just act like -- you speak first -- if you act like you know all the answers, body language, breaking small rules, taking the last doughnut from the dish. People will look at you and say, "That person must really know her or his stuff, because otherwise they probably wouldn't try to get away with that."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: All right. So let's talk to the two nicest people at the table. We begin with Ms. Guilfoyle.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

WILLIAMS: You think the jerks, especially male jerks, come off as powerful, get the girl, get the victory?

GUILFOYLE: I'm not going to bash on the boys. You know, I think there's equal measure in men and women. It's just a very individual thing. So it depends, but yes.

We were just talking about the doughnut, and I go, "I hate it when people, like, take the last doughnut." If there's other people around, if you've had one, you should wait to make sure that everybody else gets one. And if the room is pretty much emptied out and then there's a lonely doughnut...

WILLIAMS: Right.

GUILFOYLE: ... then what?

WILLIAMS: Well, that's why I say Dana Perino is Ms. Nice, so here we are. Is it the case -- you disagree. But anyway, let's pretend for a second that you are Steve Jobs and you say, "You know what? I'm going to really take charge. I'm going to be a jerk around here."

PERINO: Well, I would say in management of an office or an issue I'm not nice. I just get it done. But what I do see in New York and I am amazed is how many rich women will complain about the cost of something and get things for free. It's amazing. I think that's -- for women I think that's where, if you just look and see somehow how they do it, it's -- I would never want to be like them, but I can see why they save money.

GUTFELD: Does this happen when you're cleaning their -- cleaning their teeth?

WILLIAMS: Wait a second.

GUILFOYLE: You do look like my dentist.

BASH: I cannot wait to take this jacket off, by the way.

WILLIAMS: Wait a second. In real life, though, if you act like you are the jerk and you're the king, people start treating you that way.

BOLLING: There's a logical explanation for all this. Jerk equals narcissist. Right? That's a pretty close correlation, according to the research. Narcissists tend to be risk takers. Risk takers happen to do better in general in businesses. So jerk equals narcissist, equals risk taker. It correlates. So yes...

PERINO: How does that work in politics?

BOLLING: Also -- but also, men tend to be more risk takers, bigger risk takers. So I would say, yes, it's skewed to narcissistic jerks are typically...

WILLIAMS: But, Greg, you know what they found? At either end, it's like a bell curve, people who are deferential, people who are considerate also do well, but at the other end there are a lot of people who are jerks.

GUTFELD: What you're finding here is this article was reverse-engineered. The guy looked at successful people who happen to be jerks, and then he went backwards. You could have done that with nice people. You find plenty of nice people who are successful. So this is all baloney. The real jerk is the guy who wrote the article.

WILLIAMS: Oh boy.

GUILFOYLE: This is why it pays to have someone who was an editor in chief.

WILLIAMS: And we've got one. All right.

GUILFOYLE: He did good on his magazine.

WILLIAMS: "One More Thing" coming at you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: All right. Time for a quick "One More Thing." Dana kicks it off.

PERINO: OK. So a story that I think that you've probably been covering this.

GUTFELD: Wait, Dana, hold on. Mini Me wants his jacket back.

PERINO: Well, you know, we share a stylist.

GUILFOYLE: Dana, hurry.

PERINO: OK. Obamacare, remember President Obama said that healthcare premiums were going to go down? Well, guess what? The news is out they're not going down. Across the board health insurers for people that buy -- on individual market plans -- OK, these are, like, your small business owner - - they're going up at least 10 percent.

But here are some examples that's even more than that. Blue Cross/Blue Shield of Illinois up by 29 percent. In Pennsylvania, 30 percent. And Scott and White of Texas, a firm there looking to raise rates by 32 percent.

BOLLING: Wow.

PERINO: This is -- this is absolutely having an impact on the economy, and it will pay a role in the 2016 election.

BOLLING: All right. But you can keep your plan if you want to, up 32 percent. K.G.

PERINO: You can keep your jacket.

GUILFOYLE: So I had a chance today to go over to ABC to "The View" to talk about my book, "Making the Case," and got to sit down with the ladies of "The View." And they were asking about FOX News and about the women here and how do we all get along? And also talking about the attractiveness of women and I said, well...

GUTFELD: Did you lie?

GUILFOYLE: Well, you have to watch and find out. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: There isn't this, like, jealousy or animosity at FOX. We lift each other up. That's why I love working there, because we support each other. Everybody there has got 4.0, magna cum laud, community service. I mean, you name it.

WHOOPEE GOLDBERG, CO-HOST, ABC'S "THE VIEW": Kind of like us.

GUILFOYLE: Kind of like you guys bringing it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Anyway, it was a lot of fun. You saw Molly Simms there and Whoopee, and Joy Behar came back.

GUTFELD: What's that show called?

GUILFOYLE: And Raven Simone. "The View."

GUTFELD: OK.

BOLLING: Very nice. Good job.

GUTFELD: Interesting program. Like "The Five."

BOLLING: All -- all right. So last night there was a benefit called True Blue, and it benefited the families of fallen officers Rafael Ramos, Wenjian Liu and Brian Moore at Yankee Stadium here in New York, attended by and played by Joe Torry, Bill Cowher, a couple of other big stars. And then there was this guy right here. Check it out. Roll the video.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(CROWD CHEERING)

GUILFOYLE: Is he going to hit it?

BOLLING: Chris Christie gets -- yes, he steps up to the plate, and check it out. Nice.

WILLIAMS: Way to go, Chris.

PERINO: That was good. Good for him.

WILLIAMS: ... for the governor, and by the way, a former fantastic baseball player in high school and Little League. I didn't know that.

GUILFOYLE: I love it.

PERINO: Cute.

WILLIAMS: Anyway, moving on, they raised a lot of money for a good cause.

Juan, you're up.

WILLIAMS: Very quickly, let me just show you this video. Ninety-one-year- old Walter Thompson of suburban Chicago had a bucket list, and he wanted to crash through the garage door. Here it goes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One, two, three!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: Go get them, Walter.

PERINO: Oh, my God.

GUTFELD: Real quick, congratulations to Tom Shillue, who's now the new host of "Red Eye."

GUILFOYLE: Yes!

GUTFELD: Everybody knows Tom from "The Five" and "Red Eye." He's an awesome guy. He's on Jimmy Fallon a lot. He was on "The Daily Show," as well.

Good job, Tom.

BOLLING: Welcome -- welcome to "Red Eye," Tom.

See you later. That's where we leave it. Have a good night.

Content and Programming Copyright 2015 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2015 Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.