This is a rush transcript from "The Five," April 25, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Kimberly Guilfoyle along with Juan Williams, Jesse Watters, Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City, and this is The Five.
We began with big breaking news. It's official. Kanye West turning Hollywood and the liberal music world upside down, pledging his full throated support and love for President Trump. The rapper tweeting, you don't have to agree with Trump, but the mob can't make me not love him. We are both dragon energy. He is my brother. I love everyone. I don't agree with everything anyone does. That's what makes us individuals, and we have the right to independent thought. He also tweeted a selfie and a MAGA hat. As you can imagine, his support is appreciated by the president. Trump responding to the rapper on twitter, writing, thank you Kanye, very cool. Sarah Sanders was even asked about it at the press briefing today, seriously.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: Kanye West has been in the news lately for supporting the president and expressing his admiration for the president.
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: I'm curious whether the president has reached out to Kanye West, and whether he'd be willing to meet with him at the White House.
SARAH SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I don't know of any conversations that they've had over the last week or so. I'll keep you posted if that changes.
SANDERS: Sorry, I know they met during the transition. That's the only meeting I'm aware of that's taken place or conversation before everybody has a meltdown.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: And as we said on the show yesterday, at over the Trump Tower transition. Needless to say, the internet freaking out over this with comments like I never needed a photo of Kanye with a MAGA hat on and I still don't. And then, Donald Trump and Kanye speaking over twitter, welcome to 2018. So, does everyone believe this is legit or is it the ultimate trolling going on? Greg, you have some answers, not all of it.
GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: I know -- this is actually a bigger deal than just what's happening on twitter. It's a big deal because what you're seeing is you're collapsing of a world of conventional assumptions where people are supposed to stay in their boxes. And, if you get out of your box, there's generally an online mob that will come after you for your political beliefs or any beliefs. And what he's doing right now, which is kind of inspirational, and I actually do think it's a fairly big deal. It's bigger than the Roseanne thing. This guy has 18 million followers and they watch E and Bravo. This is a world -- it's a different world that he's reaching out to, and it's kind of heroic when I know personally musicians and actors are just regular people who are punished for offering a counter narrative, any kind of counter narrative. And he's basically standing up and he sang I'll take the slings and arrows. I'm OK with it. I'm big enough. I've returned to the Candace Owens thing when he defended her. He was supporting her not for ideas but for her guts, and he was still targeted, which shows that there's -- there is a mom out there that wants to silence you if you leave your box. And what he's doing and what a lot of people are doing, classical liberals from the Dave Rubens, and the Sam Harris', and the Joe Rogan's, and the podcast -- they are leaving their boxes, and they're daring people to come with them. You know, it's -- people are leaving the intellectual conformity, and he's -- I don't know. He's celebrating it. The tweets are a celebration, I think.
GUILFOYLE: All right. Well, fantastic. So, Dana, welcome back.
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Thanks.
GUILFOYLE: There's a family called the Kardashian.
PERINO: What has happened to The Five in the last three days when I haven't been here? I think -- look, I've got a personal feeling about Kanye West and what he said about George W. Bush during Katrina was outrageous.
PERINO: And maybe he wouldn't say that again today, but it was a terrible thing to do to somebody. And, actually, what would have been really brave would have been going after the real culprit, as in the local and state government that did not help the African-American people of New Orleans.
PERINO: And so, I've just leave that there. I also think, in addition to all the things that Greg said, I think it's a great way to get publicity before your album comes out.
GUILFOYLE: A hundred percent. So that's the.
PERINO: I'm not saying that it's not real. I think it can be both.
GUILFOYLE: But the timing could be.
GUILFOYLE: . auspicious.
GUTFELD: I don't think he needs publicity for his albums. I think they sell pretty well on their own.
GUILFOYLE: Jesse, also welcome back.
JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: Thank you.
GUILFOYLE: You've did a Great job yesterday.
WATTERS: Thank you.
WATTERS: Thank you very much.
GUILFOYLE: So, what do you make of this? You know, because it's true, he was there, we showed the footage yesterday at the beginning part of the show that he was at Trump Tower, the transition. He was express of them, welcoming a meeting with the president himself, like he was at -- candidate Trump. But, you know, felt he's listening to his voice, wanted to talk and do outrage. There's nothing wrong with that. So what is this, an extension of it, or is there's something else going on or combination?
WATTERS: I'm not as cynical as Dana. You know, I'm a little more hopeful for Kanye. I think Kanye matured since he said what he said about George W. Bush and Katrina. And I think he would agree now that the new loving Kanye would look back on that and probably not liked that, because he also said he loves Hillary. And I think he's trying to leap forward with love and not say, you know, if I like this person it doesn't mean I hate their opponent. And I can't say it any better than Greg Gutfeld just said. I think that was perfect. I think you can't underestimate what's going on here culturally.
WATTERS: . and politically. And he's shattering the paradigm of us against them, of the tribes, we're all against each other, we hate each other, and it's a new phenomenon because people have not really express themselves like this. You've never seen someone at this level of a celebrity shock and awe the public to such an extent where people are going what is happening? He must be mentally ill.
WATTERS: He has said something that has blown people's minds. They actually think he needs to see a doctor. And remember, that's what they said about Trump because he's got so much dragon blood or whatever. He sounds like Charlie Sheen.
GUILFOYLE: Dragon energy.
WATTERS: Once in a while, people come along and they break the mold. Kanye is one of them. Donald Trump is one of them. He breaks the conventional wisdom. And.
GUILFOYLE: They're both entrepreneurs and businessmen as well.
WATTERS: Yeah. And let's also remember, black Americans, not all of them, black Americans liked Donald Trump before he became a politician. You've seen pictures of him. He was in the boxing game. He was out, you know, at night time taking lots of pictures with other celebrities. And people admired his entrepreneurship, his flashiness, his style, and his wealth, and the women that he hung around with. And things changed when he became political, but he was admired for that by a lot of people in different communities. And now, the fact that he's come out and, you know, he's said some things that have angered people in the black community.
WATTERS: That doesn't mean you can't change as a person. Doesn't mean, you know, you have to leave that person, but I think Trump has matured just as much as Kanye.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah. And by that you mean the wonderful, you know, wives that he has had.
GUILFOYLE: Ivana, Melania.
WATTERS: I mean, he's a staple, you know, New York society for many, many years.
GUILFOYLE: Yes, all right. OK. So, Juan, have you recovered from Jesse?
JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: I'm trying my best. But I think this is such a superficial conversation, because I think Kanye West is the same guy, that as Dana said, was insulting Republicans a minute ago, in a way that I thought was unfair, and now he comes back, and I guess there's always going to be a market for people who say, well, oh, but now he likes Trump, so we're going to rally to Kanye. Look, even his wife said, hey, Kanye, you don't agree with all of his politics. And Kanye West would say that's true, but it doesn't matter because I also like Hillary. But it doesn't matter if I like somebody policies. He's got the dragon energy or the dragon -- whenever. You know, it's just so silly at a time when in America we've got like, you know, black women on all golf course in Pennsylvania being -- the police called to get him off, or the Starbucks situation, or the young man who was shot at his grandmother's backyard in Sacramento. And instead of focusing on like real issues impacting race in our country, we're focusing on Kanye West, who has said -- it's not about anything of substance, it's just all of a sudden with a record coming out, he likes Donald Trump. So, I guess all of the Donald Trump folks now will go buy Kanye West's records.
GUTFELD: But, I mean, that's the kind of response that Kanye expects, which is to dismiss his beliefs. This is what happens. If you stepped out of the box, somebody's going to accuse you of opportunism. They're going to bring up your past. They're going to tell you that, you know, you're probably just some kind of, you know, marketer. That's what happens. He knows that. He doesn't care.
WILLIAMS: I think your analysis is way off here. This is not about stepping out of a box. What I'm saying to you is, if this guy was like Supreme Court Justice Thomas, if he was Tom Sowell, if he was someone who was making.
WILLIAMS: Let me just finish. If he was someone who is making a substantive argument about how Donald Trump, in fact, is a beneficial force in American life, especially in terms of black people, and that black people haven't all been brainwashed.
GUILFOYLE: But you have a quarrel with what he said because you don't like the way he said.
GUILFOYLE: He's entitled like everybody at this table entitled.
WILLIAMS: The argument is that he has no argument.
GUILFOYLE: He may not be Tom Sowell, but he's still somebody who is an entrepreneur, and somebody who's been very successful.
WILLIAMS: That's fine.
GUILFOYLE: . in the black community.
WILLIAMS: That has nothing to do with -- suddenly he's now a fan of Donald Trump. Where this comes from?
GUILFOYLE: Well, what I'm saying is he's entitled to his opinion.
GUILFOYLE: What difference does it make?
WATTERS: I think it's less about Donald Trump and it's more about with the Candace Owens thing. He is celebrating people for being independent thinkers.
WATTERS: You expect someone like Candace Owens from her demographic, young black female in America, to think the way a lot of other young black females in America think about Donald Trump, and that's usually about 90 percent one way. He's celebrating her bravery. He's celebrating her independence of thought, and stepping out of the box and standing up to the mob who comes after her for saying something that a lot of people in her group don't believe in. This is more about groupthink and breaking through that, and celebrating people's individuality and expression.
WILLIAMS: This is what Gregory was saying. But what I'm saying to you, this is not about groupthink. If Candace Owens or Kanye want to make an argument, I'm glad to hear it, but that's not what they're saying. What they're -- I mean, it's like John Legend today tweeted out this thing about, stop calling the cops will you on black people. And everybody said, oh, that's a racist comment because blacks have a higher crime rate, et cetera. But you stop and think about it, Jesse, if you and I walking down the street and some cop beats me in the head, you're going to say why are you hitting Juan?
WATTERS: I understand that argument.
GUILFOYLE: They know you, Juan.
WATTERS: This isn't just about.
GUILFOYLE: Listen, let people have their own opinion and their viewpoints. So it makes this country diverse. And it shouldn't matter what skin color you have, shouldn't adopt a certain ideology or philosophy and be criticized and bashed by other people. I think it's very unfair. The Supreme Court appears to be set to hand Trump a big win on his travel ban. That's big decision next on The Five.
PERINO: Welcome back. A constitutional challenge to President Trump's travel ban now in the hands of the Supreme Court, the justices hearing arguments today on the third version of the president's restrictions, the first was blocked by lower court and withdrawn, the second was allowed to take partial effect but expected to expire in September. The administration appears likely to win this case with a conservative majority on the high court. Here were some arguments on both sides.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
SUPREME COURT JUSTICE SONIA SOTOMAYOR: Where does the president get the authority to do more than congress has already decided is adequate?
SUPREME COURT JUSTICE SAMUEL ALITO: If you look at what was done, it does not look at all like a Muslim ban. There are other justifications that jump out as to why these particular countries were put on the list.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
PERINO: Kimberly, it sounds like they were getting to the knob of the issue, especially, in terms of the war powers -- or the presidential powers, but also this issue that it -- doesn't look very targeted if only 8 percent of Muslims in the world would be targeted under this particular ban. So, Kennedy, looks like he's going to be the swing vote. Nobody knows.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah. I think that, you know, people are spending it on both sides, obviously, as they want to do in terms of their different ideological differences, but I don't think this is actually a problem at all for the president and for his policies. I actually think he has a very good opportunity and chance here to prevail on the merits, because the way that it was tailored, and the redrafting, and the way they posited it that, actually, this is something that could go through. That it isn't onerous. That it isn't -- that it doesn't discriminate and that it is reasonable. And it's also in keeping with national security interests, and the president's right, and the cord to be able to oversee that and put in steps that he thinks are important for public safety and national security.
PERINO: Juan, I think it's important for people to remember that the original travel ban the got all the attention and all the protests, it was withdrawn. And then, a more targeted, narrow one was put in its place, and that's what they're arguing about today.
WILLIAMS: In fact, this is the third version I believe. And so, you've got this now -- what is it? Fourteen months or so -- the administration since the first one was put in place. And, in this one, you also have North Korea and Venezuela included. I think, purposely, to signal that this is not about a Muslim ban. This is about national security.
GUILFOYLE: Well, maybe because that is our actual interests versus prophylactic.
WILLIAMS: OK. And so -- but the counterargument that came from the former acting solicitor general, Neal Katyal, today, when he was arguing was that the administration has not demonstrated exactly how the people from these countries would be a threat to our national security. And that, in fact, he believes that the travel ban is generated by the president's animus toward Muslims. Now, it was interesting because then, Elena Kagan, a liberal Supreme Court justice said, oh, well. So, what happens, she says to Noel Francisco, who was the attorney -- associate general arguing for the administration. What if we had a president who didn't like Jews? And said, hey, we don't want anybody from Israel coming in here. And he said, well, you have to justify -- well, yeah, have you justified it? There was a lot of laughter because she said this is hypothetical out-of-the box. And then, everybody said, yeah, we've got a hypothetical -- non- hypothetical out-of-the-box president in Donald Trump. Everybody laughs. But, I think this is not about the powers, because if it's about the powers, and I think the conservative majority on the court is going to rule this way, if it's just about the powers, the president has the power on immigration.
WILLIAMS: But, in the case of this president, there's a question about religious freedom and anti-Muslim sentiment generating this ban.
PERINO: But, Jesse, is it a dangerous precedent to look at what anybody might say on a campaign trail versus what they actually do as president?
WATTERS: Yeah, the twitter clause. I don't know if you can use that. And he did muddied the waters with the tweets and some of the rhetoric. But, like you said on the merits, I mean, it's clear here the president has broad authority to restrict aliens coming into the country. He believes or she believes, if it's Hillary, would be detrimental to the interests of the United States. That's clear. I mean, it should be an open and shut case.
WATTERS: . on the merits, Kimberly. But, you know, they're trying to say that he's a bigot, and that that's not going to fly.
GUILFOYLE: They want to try to put what's in his heart or what he thinks - - like, oh, this is the guy who imply that he has bad motives, or intentions, or what's to be prejudiced. There isn't evidence to support that.
WILLIAMS: Yeah, there is. The tweets that Jesse -- and the speech -- the remarks he made on the campaign trail.
WATTERS: Right. But they're not going to judge those.
PERINO: Yeah, I don't think.
WATTERS: And there have been people from some of these countries have done harm to Americans. The guy on the Ohio state campus, I mean, he was from Somalia and ramped 11 people with his car. There was a person -- another person from Somalia that did a lot of damage. Remember the mall slasher, too. He cut up a bunch of people. He was from -- I think Sudan. So, it's not like these countries are innocent countries. The president is looking at these countries. There's chaos there. There's no authority there to regulate who's leaving, who's coming, and he just want to be able to trust that process and keep America safe.
PERINO: That's what I was going to ask to Greg, which is -- especially, if you look at Venezuela. We don't talk about Venezuela enough.
PERINO: It's a failed country. And there is Islamic influence happening in that country. So, to me that makes sense. What do you think?
GUTFELD: I agree. I mean, it goes back to what Jesse said. It's about lack of infrastructure and lack of process, so we have to actually supply it ourselves. All of these issues have in common -- the southern region, these are long-term considerations based -- the ban and the border, these are long-term considerations based on the survival of a country, national security issue. And Trump has decided to become the bad guy and deal with it now.
WATTERS: Bad dad.
GUTFELD: Yeah, he's the bad dad. He wants -- you know, he's looking at a more secure border. He's worried about the marriage of technology and terror, which is why you're looking at countries that have a lack of infrastructure which can be taken advantage of. So, what Trump is actually doing is he's saying this is all -- he's choosing all these battles that are long-term battles, that in the short term he's just going to get a lot of grief for. He's going to be seen as the mean guy.
PERINO: But will really change things, though, if the court does rule in his favor. And you have a Supreme Court decision -- basically, then it's over. OK. Coming up, the White House still standing behind V.A. nominee, Ronny Jackson, today, despite the storm over alleged misconduct in his past, next.
WATTERS: The White House dismissing an onslaught of questions today about the conduct of President Trump's V.A. secretary nominee, Dr. Ronny Jackson. Earlier, Sarah Sanders says Jackson's record has been impeccable, and he's received more vetting than most nominees. The president met with his pick at the White House yesterday after his confirmation hearing was postponed, and said he would withdraw from consideration if he were in his shoes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: He's a fine man. I'll always stand behind him. I'd let it be his choice. But, he's a man who has just been an extraordinary person. His family, extraordinary success, great doctor, great everything, and he has to listen to the abuse that he -- I wouldn't -- if I were him, actually, in many ways, I'd love to be him. But, the fact is, I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATTERS: Some senators are saying this isn't about politics, but legitimate concern.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JON TESTER, D-MONT.: Twenty-some people who got a hold of us and said we've got a problem. This doctor has a problem, because he hands out prescriptions like candy. In fact, in the White House, they called him the candy man.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATTERS: Jackson just spoke to reporters and said he doesn't know where these allegations are coming from, and says he's going forward with the nomination. So, we've just got a whole rundown here of the allegations about Jackson. And, Dana, one of the things about candy man was that he was on Air Force One, he's handing out Ambien and things like that.
PERINO: So, I took a quick glance here. I want to talk about that, specifically, that specific allegation, because it sounds like it's very reckless. And, to me, having flown with him and also his superiors before, before he was the head doctor on Air Force One, when you are traveling -- I think we hit 42 countries in one year in 2008. And, in order to do your job well, the doctors will come around and ask you if you needed help being able to sleep.
PERINO: And to be able to deal with jetlag. And it was very responsible. And it's not like you were giving a handful of pills. You're given a little envelope with two or three to get you through that particular trip. And I would always cut it in half, so that on the backend when I got home I could also adjust, because I had to get up at 4 in the morning in order to help -- be able to do my job. So, that particular thing I think has been mischaracterized and, unfortunately, so for him. But when the president said that yesterday, when he said that I'll leave it up to him, I assumed that meant that he thought that Ronny Jackson was going to make the decision to not go forward, but that's not what they've decided.
PERINO: So, these allegations that are different ones about opioids and things -- I don't know anything about that. I do think that every president should be allowed to have the people that they have chosen being the job that they want. If the senators don't confirm him, fine. But if they confirm him and they find out that he is not a good secretary of the Veterans Administration, fine. And then you can judge President Trump on that pick. But, I think some of these allegations feel like a little bit too far afield to prevent him from being able to have a hearing.
WATTERS: Yes. Some of these allegations are hard to make sense of, Greg. One of them was that he wrecked a car while drunk on the way back from a secret service party. He's now come out and said I did not wreck a car. It should be easy to prove that I didn't do it.
GUTFELD: Yeah. This is another example of how sudden fame becomes a game of whack-a-mole. Let's say you're leading a reasonably good life, you know, he's the White House doc, you know, nobody really knows him. Some people know him. And then, the spotlight comes and it's very happy. And then, all of a sudden, when the vulnerability unveils itself, the press descends, and the media and the blogs, they're like vultures on a cleanse. And it ensures that there's almost be no fair hearing for this guy. You tackle the over prescribing medication bib, which I agree with, I think that that is often a matter of opinion, and it hurts doctors and makes doctors scared to prescribe because they don't want to get that reputation of being an over prescriber, being a candy man. And that actually -- inevitably hurts patients, which I've talked about with the opiate crisis. The toxic workplace thing that they're saying about him, we have to ban the word toxic. It can only be used when discussing like household cleansers and poisonous plants.
GUTFELD: A toxic workplace can be -- you can throw that anywhere. If you don't like your boss, that's a toxic workplace. It's kind of a generic phrase that people can use if they just had a miserable time at their job.
Maybe he was a mean guy. I don't know. But these are, like, subjective -- subjective --
GUTFELD: Emotional things. About the boozing, if they've got documentation that he's boozing heavily at work and -- that's a different thing. But I don't know.
WATTERS: Yes. It's hard to make sense of the allegations.
GUTFELD: By the way, media -- the media and politicians going after this guy for drinking at work is really funny.
WATTERS: Sometimes some of these senators look like they've had a few.
Kimberly, I have a quote here from President Barack Obama praising Dr. Jackson. Genuine enthusiasm, great job, poise under pressure, great work ethic. Inspires confidence.
And now, I mean, this guy's, like, a quack. All the stuff.
GUILFOYLE: This is really sad, because the reputational smear, salacious allegations without going through some verification, some support to substantiate that, I mean, as a former prosecutor, I just take issue with that. Because it's not, like Dana says, if you know anything about what goes on, and Dana does. He prescribes, he does -- why would you listen and give weight than to the president who put in writing about him? It's not like this is somebody that was a President Trump pick.
This his somebody who has served this country admirably, faithfully, was beloved, did a wonderful job. Everybody loved him when he was doing the greatest briefing of all time about President Trump's medical health.
And then all of a sudden, like Greg says, he's in the spotlight and he's become a high target for political reasons. Therefore, take a full and thorough investigation. Make sure, because it's irresponsible to defame somebody, if he's had a stellar reputation and career. And I thought that it was great to have what President Obama said about him. You know?
WATTERS: Character witness right there.
GUILFOYLE: And kudos to President Obama for putting all that down in writing about someone. That's what he felt, and that was his experience with him.
WATTERS: Juan, this guy has gone through a few background checks. An FBI background check. Nothing like these allegations ever surfaced. How do you feel about it?
JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Well, I'm so glad to hear this group praising President Obama, relying on President Obama.
GUILFOYLE: Revel in it. Revel in it, Juan.
WILLIAMS: Really. Only when you need it. Only when you need it. I'm glad.
GUTFELD: He's going to put on a "Make America Great" hat tomorrow.
WILLIAMS: It's too much. It's too much.
WATTERS: He would not be an independent thinker.
WILLIAMS: We need Obama (ph). But you know what strikes me is I think there's something bigger at play here.
You know, to my experience, when you see this kind of response coming, there are much larger forces than media or what Greg often refers to as team sport politics at play. There are people within the administration of the V.A. who don't want a new V.A. secretary. They're trying to guard their power base within the V.A.
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Correct.
WILLIAMS: And then so -- then you have the veterans' groups. And they don't like the idea that they're bringing in someone they don't know, don't have any strings on, don't -- not attached to.
And then you have the military. Don't forget, he -- Dr. Jackson was involved in a turf war with another doctor inside the White House medical office.
So you have Jon Tester, the senator from Montana, red state, so he's not anti-Trump. And guess what? He says the people. He's had 20 military people, not political people, not media. Military people come forward and say, "This guy is not a good doctor, not to be trusted."
And The Wall Street Journal, not any left-wing editorial page, said the president did him no favors. And where was the vetting? Where's the vetting been on so many Trump nominees? In this case, they're being surprised and put on the defensive when they need not be if they'd done their job up front.
GUILFOYLE: But even though Tester is red state, he's not a Trump supporter.
WILLIAMS: Well, how about Thom Tillis from North Carolina? He said this is of concern, Kimberly.
WATTERS: It's going to be tough --
GUILFOYLE: It's an important decision.
WATTERS: -- when they do get to it, if they do get to it.
CNN's top White House reporter firing back at allegations he insulted the intelligence of Trump supporters. We'll play you that tape next.
GUTFELD: Real music.
Variety magazine did a big feature on CNN's chief White House correspondent, Jim Acosta, along with other colleagues. In it, Acosta says, "Americans are too clueless to see that Trump's feisty bond with the press is fake" and that Trump's act will only encourage violence on people like Jim. Hence these solemn pictures, which make Jim look like hunted prey. They seem to say, "Here I am, out here risking my life for you to battle the Great Satan, Trump."
Here's what he said:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM ACOSTA, CNN: People around the country don't know it's an act. They're not in on the act. And they take what he says seriously, and they take attacks from Sean Spicer and Sarah Sanders and what they do to us on a daily basis very seriously.
They don't have all their faculties. In some cases, their elevator might not hit all floors. My concern is, is that a journalist is going to be hurt one of these days.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: Faculties. So Trump might trigger crazy Americans to go after him, Jim, or others. Fair enough. Jim, feels a little like projection. You seem kind of angry yourself. Could you be a hazard to the American public? I wouldn't cut you off in traffic.
Anyway, while it's true unstable people do exist, Jim misses the point that we all get: Trump creates chaos and fiction from which to negotiate. He knows that he's outgunned by the media. They have all the ink. Plus, there's the bias that drips with disdainful superiority. What Jim reflects daily. So this act is something everyone wishes they could do to correct the imbalance.
But ultimately, Trump treats the media the same way he treats North Korea, Iran, even Republicans. So Jim, you're no special case. He's doing it to everyone. You just have to have the faculties to see it. And you have to be calm and professional enough to deal with it. But maybe your elevator can't reach a floor where that's possible.
So we ran that tape to show you that we weren't taking his words out of context. And we're going to even -- I'm going to read his response on Twitter. This is Jim Acosta, or Che Acosta, as I like to call him. "Regarding my interview with Variety, my comments have been twisted by some outlets. As you can plainly see, I'm not referring to Trump supporters. I'm talking about people who threaten journalists. Links to transcript and video below." Interesting. Kimberly, thoughts on this.
GUILFOYLE: That was quite a dance move. A little bit of the Macarena with the electric slide thrown in, with a little bit of moonwalking. Because he's like, "I'd better push this back."
GUTFELD: Push this back.
GUILFOYLE: Because people are like, "What?" Because you don't want to do what Hillary Clinton did and people that take the wrong way. You speak your opinion, but then if you start to insult voters, or clinging to guns and religion, or you're saying that, you know, this is -- you know, the men and women of America can't make their own mind. People don't like to be told they can't have their opinion.
GUILFOYLE: Or their thoughts and for you to question their motivation or their intelligence or their understanding of the situation.
Now, that being said, I mean, I like the way that was shot. It was nice from a production standpoint. It was almost like -- OK, what is this, the news and "The Bold and the Beautiful." I don't know.
GUILFOYLE: It was kind of dreamy or something. I don't know what it was. Dreamscape?
GUTFELD: I enjoyed it.
WATTERS: Like our promo.
GUTFELD: It was. Same people. Same people did it.
So Juan, I actually do -- I get the point about external threats by unstable weirdos. We all face that. You know? But you know, he's not in Vietnam. I mean, this is -- he's in the White House press corps. This is his job. And of course, when we do "The Five," we get crazy people, too.
GUTFELD: Only one or two.
WILLIAMS: I'm listening to you.
GUTFELD: And they're from MSNBC.
WILLIAMS: But if you -- if you're saying that and imagine that, you know, you're Jim Acosta and you are CNN and you're the ones that are being pile- driven by the president and his Twitter feed and all that. And you're asking really -- the other day he asked the question about DACA at the Easter egg roll. And he said everybody went -- on the right went crazy.
Or April Ryan saying that she now has police, law enforcement on speed dial. She gets threats for asking. The other day, she asked Sarah Huckabee Sanders if Trump was thinking about quitting, and that set off --
GUTFELD: Doesn't everybody have that on speed dial?
WILLIAMS: So if you -- if you're having that experience. Can't you understand why Jim Acosta might say there are people who are unhinged?
GUTFELD: Well, I think that that's what he tried to say.
WILLIAMS: I think that's what he said.
GUTFELD: to justify what he was saying before.
WILLIAMS: No, I think that's what he said.
GUTFELD: He's saying that everybody -- that they won't get -- they don't get the act.
WATTERS: I would say that the guy that shot up a congressional Republican police game, I mean, was he inflamed by CNN? I mean, you can't have it both ways. You can't say, 'Oh, Trump is going to call us fake news and someone is going to shoot us." Well, OK, so then the guy that shot Scalise, that's your fault, Jim.
I don't like that whole blame game. I mean, people are crazy. And your job is soft, Jim. You sit in a chair. You ask questions. This is not Vietnam. This is nothing. You're not under siege. Everything's fine.
With that said --
GUTFELD: I love that he's saying that as he's sitting at a table.
WATTERS: I'm not whining and complaining, like I'm about to get shot. I know I have it good. And I mean, I spent a lot of years in the field, Greg.
GUTFELD: Yes, you did. "Watters' World."
GUILFOYLE: And cutting tape at, like, 3 in the morning.
WATTERS: And cutting tape in the basement.
But just to be fair to Jim, you know, we'll look at the transcript. We can make up our own minds. But if there was a FOX News White House correspondent, and he was berating Barack Obama, and he was hostile, and he was partisan and he was a little rude, he'd be celebrated by a lot of people in this country, but he would not get Variety magazine write-ups. Let's be honest about it.
GUTFELD: No one will ever do that to me, Dana. He does seem like he's unhappy when he's there. And it's like -- it might be a bit of a projection.
PERINO: Well, it might be an act.
PERINO: This weekend is the White House Correspondents' Dinner. The president is not going. He's going to go to a rally.
Katie Turner of NBC, she was on the campaign trail, and she did -- does write about when she was in the press pen, and the president was talking about the fake news media, that people that are ginned up at these rallies would go after them. Not physically touch them, but they would have to be escorted out by Secret Service so that they could be protected. I think perhaps that might have been what they were referring to. And that's not good.
GUTFELD: Yes? I don't know.
Up next, an update on that miserable professor who declared she'd never be fired after saying vile things about Barbara Bush.
WILLIAMS: We told you on Friday about Fresno State professor Randa Jarrar, who said terrible things about Barbara Bush on social media after Mrs. Bush's death. She expressed joy, in fact, that she had passed. Jarrar taunted outraged critics, saying she'd never be fired for it, because she had tenure.
Well, guess what? Turned out she was right. The school did a review, and President Joseph Castro put out a statement admonishing her comments. But he says, quote, "We have concluded that Professor Jarrar did not violate any CSU or university policies and that she was acting in a private capacity and speaking about a public matter on her personal Twitter account. This private action is an issue of free speech and not related to her job or tenure. Therefore, the university does not have justification to support taking any disciplinary action."
What do you make of it?
GUILFOYLE: Listen, I'm all for freedom of speech. People have to speak their mind. It has been a consistent theme throughout this show. However, I think that this was done in incredibly poor taste. That's my opinion. I would never do something like this. I think it's inappropriate. I think it is vile to somebody who was so respected and beloved, and is, you know, a woman who lived to a great age, whose life impacted so many of us in the country and internationally, represented our country beautifully. And to besmirch her and speak about her in this despicable way, I have no bid for it or time for it whatsoever.
WILLIAMS: You know, I agree. I think it's a matter of respect and values. But on the other hand, Jesse, did you expect that she was going to be fired, that this was a violation of her rights as a tenured professor?
WATTERS: Well, no. Remember, Ward Churchill, he said that the people who died on 9/11 were little Nazis. That's not what got him fired. What got him fired, they did an investigation after those comments, and they found a whole history of plagiarism and academic fraud. That's what got him fired.
GUILFOYLE: I remember that, yes.
WATTERS: So you can have freedom of speech in this country, and you're free to be a vile person. But I don't think this rises to the level. She's a nasty individual, and I hope people don't take her classes.
WILLIAMS: Yes. In fact, I saw that some people said their kids aren't going to apply to go there. So maybe that -- that will impact them.
WATTERS: Yes, I think that will.
WILLIAMS: So Dana, the professor, Jarrar, did an interview with New York Magazine.
PERINO: Of course she did.
WILLIAMS: And in the interview, she said that it was important that people not forget the history of some of the things that Barbara Bush had said, especially comments after Hurricane Katrina and the like. What do you make of this?
PERINO: I make that she is not the sliver of a woman that Barbara Bush was. And she has the right to say it. She has the right to believe what she has to believe, and I have a right to believe she is abhorrent.
PERINO: And I think that's all I have with that.
WILLIAMS: No, because you knew Barbara Bush.
PERINO: I did. And look, Barbara Bush would say the same thing. She got a right to say -- that's why we loved Barbara Bush. Barbara Bush would be the first one to say, "Knock yourself out, sister. You want to believe that, knock yourself out."
WATTERS: Bless your heart.
PERINO: Yes. Bless your heart. Absolutely.
GUILFOYLE: And come back with something pithy and witty about her.
PERINO: And sometimes not that --
WILLIAMS: Greg, I know you value differences of opinion. Did this fall into that?
GUTFELD: Of course. I said I didn't want her to be fired. I was more interested in the whole idea of tenure, which is proof that it's often for losers. Because tenure allows people not to actually have to be any good.
And she also has more rights than the students, because she has tenure. She's protected.
But it's -- this is a very sick, sad, lonely woman who finds comfort in other people's sorrow. So you can bet whatever punishment that you could dream of for her can't be worse than her own life. Because living as -- in that person's skin has to be, just every day, self-loathing. And Barbara Bush will accomplish more, no longer living, than this idiot will in her lifetime. I hope she goes on Tucker.
GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.
PERINO: Tenure is the -- the safe space for the professors.
GUTFELD: It's a safe space for professors.
PERINO: You can say whatever -- you're safe; you can say whatever you want.
PERINO: But students don't want to hear any of it.
GUILFOYLE: Tucker would have fun. Right?
WILLIAMS: I think --
GUTFELD: Not Tucker tonight, not a safe space.
WILLIAMS: Tenure is supposed to be about expanding our base of knowledge. Not protecting ugly speech.
PERINO: But that's not how they use it.
WILLIAMS: That's not the way -- all right, all right. But guess what? We have rainy day fun. "One More Thing" is up next.
GUILFOYLE: You been out in the rain?
GUILFOYLE: Well, it's time now for "One More Thing" -- Dana.
PERINO: All right. So today is World Malaria Day, and its a day to celebrate global efforts to help eradicate the disease. It affects billions of people.
The good news is the President's Malaria Initiative released its 12th annual report today. So far the U.S. has helped save 7 million lives and prevented 1 billion malaria cases since 2000. The hope is that one day foreign assistance won't be necessary.
But the American people have done a lot of great work, and it continues under President Trump. So we have a great deal to do, but we've done a lot already. So we want to celebrate that today.
GUILFOYLE: All right. Dana, thank you for that.
And Jesse, what do you have for us today?
WATTERS: So yesterday, you saw Dana and I were down in Nashville, Tennessee. Celebrity waiters, actually. Well, she was a celebrity. I was just tagging along.
PERINO: Yes, right.
WATTERS: It was a star-studded event, and it was called Waiting for Wishes, which helped raise money for two great causes: the Kevin Carter Foundation and Make a Wish for Middle Tennessee. A lot of fun, and an honor to be there. And tomorrow we're going to show you some behind-the- scenes action.
PERINO: This is how Jesse waited tables, while I was bussing tables.
WATTERS: I was buttering her roll, Dana. That's what we were --
PERINO: That's what they were doing.
WATTERS: That's what we were asked to do. It was for a very good cause.
GUILFOYLE: OK, thank you for that --
WATTERS: You're welcome.
GUILFOYLE: -- Jesse, and for donating your time in volunteering with Dana. It was very sweet.
WATTERS: Thank you.
GUILFOYLE: All right. Juanito.
WILLIAMS: Well, you know Gregory usually has the funny animal videos for you, but today I have angry bird. Or should I say angry mother goose?
GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh.
WILLIAMS: Take a look at these photos from Adrian, Michigan. Yes, that's an angry mother goose attacking a golfer. He came too close to the bird's nest.
Isaac Couling and the high school were participating and the golf tournament got turned upside down. Even lost his golf clubs while under assault. It took four golf carts to separate the young man and the goose. But the golfer says he still shot par.
Well, I guess it wasn't a birdie, certainly not an eagle. So maybe a goose. How about that for simple jokes?
PERINO: Very good.
GUILFOYLE: That was very good, Juan. I like that, Juan.
WILLIAMS: Yes, I was trying to impress Dana.
PERINO: You did.
GUILFOYLE: All right. Well, I want to take a special moment here for my dear friend. We came in together at FOX News Channel, and it was 12 years ago. Ainsley Earhardt is the host, cohost of "FOX & Friends" in the morning.
This is her fantastic new inspirational memoir talking about her life. And I've gotten to know her and her family well, and her daughter. And it's really something. A woman of faith. Her religion is very important to her. You've heard her talk about that and be brave. It's called "The Light Within Me." And it talks about her family and how she was raised growing up in South Carolina, her relationship with God, and the strong influence.
So and also, tomorrow President Trump will be calling into "FOX & Friends" with Ainsley and Brian and Steve at 8 a.m. for an interview. You don't want to miss that.
GUTFELD: Excellent. All right. If you go to FOXNews.com/Opinion, you're going to find probably the most comprehensive piece on opioids that's been written by me. But I tried to present a different side that you don't get in mainstream media. Check it out.
Also if you go to the FOXNewsPodcasts.com, I have a podcast up there with Daniel Calder, talking about the literature of dictators. What dictators published. It's a pretty interesting 20-minute conversation.
PERINO: Your podcasts are great, because they're interesting people and they're digestible. Like 20 minutes is exactly what you need.
GUTFELD: It's like the length of a sitcom without the commercials.
GUILFOYLE: Exactly. And guys, by the way, her book tour is starting, if you want to go. And a lot of the "FOX & Friends" people show up to support her, too. You can catch that for Ainsley, and please buy the book.
Set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of "The Five." "Special Report" is up next. Hello, Bret.
BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS: Hello, Kimberly. I'll get that book, too.
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