This is a rush transcript from "The Story," January 19, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MARTHA MACCALLUM, "THE STORY" HOST: Thank you, Bret. A lot of great quotes there, a lot of fun and there's going to be some more quotes this evening as we make our way through tonight.
Five hours and counting. That is how long the Senate has to come up with a deal tonight or the government will shut down at midnight. We'll tell you what that might look like if that actually happens this evening. Good evening, everybody. I'm Martha MacCallum, live in Washington, D.C. tonight.
Power packed so forth this evening, we have Mick Mulvaney, Sean Spicer, Senator Tom Cotton, Congressman Jim Jordan, all ahead. But first, the shutdown showdown as this being called on the eve of the one year anniversary of the Trump White House.
President Trump was expected to leave this afternoon and head to Florida for the weekend. But, not yet. He is still behind us tonight in the White House. Quite a bit of art to this deal as they try to avert what the president called, and would like everyone else to call, the Schumer showdown.
The Senate minority leader and the president, and their chief of staff met in the Oval Office this afternoon. They came out of there, they said, you know what, "We did make some progress." There are good number of disagreements that still remain.
Tonight, the president tweeting in favor now of a four weeks to C.R. to hammer out the rest. And with three Republican Senators, Graham, Flake, and Paul, all in the no column. GOP needs three Red State Dems to make that up and then, plus, they've got to get to 60. Chief Congressional Correspondent Mike Emanuel has been following the very latest on the Hill tonight. And he joins us from Capitol Hill, where the story is continuing to unfold this evening. Hi, Mike
MIKE EMANUEL, CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Martha, no doubt about it. Good evening to you. From speaking with both Republicans and Democrat Senators, it feels like most are looking for a way out from a government shutdown in the hours ahead. On the Senate floor, we have seen Republican and Democrat lawmakers taking turns speaking. Perhaps, starting the blame game a bit, blaming the other side for a potential government shutdown. Earlier, the Senate majority leader said, there's an easy way out of this mess.
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL, R-KY, SENATE MAJORITY LEADER: We already have the bill that we know it can pass the House because it already did. We have a bill that we know the President will sign into law because he's already committed to do just that.
EMANUEL: There was great hope here on the Hill when President Trump invited the Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer to the White House this afternoon. Sources tell Fox, Schumer brought a list of domestic issues he want to talk about that when will beyond DACA, those young people brought to this country illegally by their parents. Schumer, apparently taken the opportunity to air his views on a range of matters with the President.
SEN. TOM CARPER, D-DEL., MEMBER, SENATE ENVIRONMENT COMMITTEE: The president is supposed to lead, and if he got it the art of the deal, this is a good time to show him. I know, when I was -- I was governor for a year of Delaware, and situations like this, I was very much involved, very much in hands on. And we reaching out to both sides, there is a need -- there is a deal to be have here.
EMANUEL: It feels like there has been some significant movement in the last few minutes. Democrat Senators are expected to meet at 8:30, so, about an hour and a half from now. And then, we expect around 10:00 or so Eastern Time. There may be an attempt to see if they have 60 votes to pass the deal that passed the House last night. Martha?
MACCALLUM: Fascinating. Mike, thank you very much. Here now, Chris Stirewalt, Fox News politics editor and Marc Thiessen, an American Enterprise Institute scholar and Fox News Contributor. Gentleman, welcome. So, you know, and this the way is nights go. Right?
CHRIS STIREWALT, FOX NEWS POLITICS EDITOR: Yes.
MACCALLUM: A couple of minutes ago, there's started to be some movement. We heard that Mitch McConnell is on the floor right now. And this is an idea that we talked about earlier that perhaps, he just tries to push through what passed the House and what the President said, he will sign it, he just said.
STIREWALT: Well, he's at least got to make them pay for it. If he's not -- if the Senate Democrats are going to come on board and do this, and go vote for the House bill, he's got all this make them vote no. He's got to give them a chance to vote no and get them on the record.
And then he go into the final hour, where Schumer obviously is looking for an off-ramp. Democrats want out of this thing, they don't want to get stuck with this because it's too far from when the DACA deadline is. To do it now, giving at off-ramp for that in the last hour with minutes to go, you go, "Hey, Chuck, how about a five-day extension?" And they'll go, "We'll take it, we'll take it, give us anything."
MACCALLUM: I mean, it's just unbelievable, Marc. What do you think about it? Right? A five-day extension, this would be the 4th C.R. They haven't passed the budget on time since 1996. So, you know, folks at home watch this and they just say, again? You know it throw their hands up, it's ridiculous.
MARC THIESSEN, RESIDENT FELLOW, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: It's a completely manufactured crisis. The DACA kid -- the DACA goes until March 5th. And President Trump, when he initially announced that date, said, "Oh, if we don't get a deal, I will extend it even further." Which everyone were upset about him with this. You don't do that when you're negotiating as offer to extend your deadline that you just said.
So, that dies, you know, not prefer for a number of weeks. But this bill has funding for 9 million poor kids getting funding on the children's health program that, that dies tomorrow if they don't pass something. So, Democrats really want --
MACCALLUM: And there's nothing in this deal that Democrats should be opposed to?
THIESSEN: There's nothing in the bill that Democrats should be opposed to. What they're opposed to is what Donald Trump's reportedly said a week ago and there's still having a connection about it. And you know, they need to grow up and stop being over-sensitive millennial' and negotiate the deal with the president of the United States. Grow up --
MACCALLUM: And you know what, Senator Lindsey Graham was also one who really believed that they were very close --
MACCALLUM: -- last Tuesday. And that they were going to get a bipartisan deal on DACA. And he said, if we don't get it now as part of this deal, it' not going to happen.
STIREWALT: There is a deal to be had out there and no reason to think that a month from now, they -- let's say they got -- if they shut government tonight, the Republicans got everything that they want to know. One month continuance as centrally here, they got all that.
The Democrats come back with a strengthened negotiating position on DACA because the deadline is getting closer. It is a zero advantage for Republicans to be the Party of deporting young adults who are in the United States through no fault of their own. And they're not got to want to do it. The Democrat leverage grows later, this is too soon for them to shut down the government over this issue.
MACCALLUM: All right, we have reason we're going to talk about the one year -- first year of the Trump administration. So, Mark, I'm going to give you last minute to do just that.
MACCALLUM: Because it's possible that we could be in shutdown mode --
MACCALLUM: -- when he celebrates that and when he does the State of the union.
THIESSEN: I mean, that's been a hugely year of accomplishment. I mean, he passed comprehensive tax reform for the first time in three decades. He just driven ISIS from its caliphate. He ended the Paris climate deal, you know, he although -- many of the things that he promised he did. And he also finish some promises that Barack Obama made and didn't fulfill. He enforce the red line in Syria, he pulled the U.S. embassy out of -- he recognized Jerusalem as the Capital of Israel, both things that President Obama promised to do when he was President and didn't actually do.
MACCALLUM: Tick to a lot of people off, made a lot of people happy. It's peculiar, but by many measures, even his critics, Chris, say that you know, when you're adding up pluses and minuses, it's been successful.
STIREWALT: Well, when you put it to get -- here is the deal, politics isn't about being good, it's being by better than they say you are. They said Donald Trump was a lunatic who would bring nuclear holocaust and end human life on earth. If you can't beat that bar if you can't strum out that one, you can't beat anything, and he definitely beat his critic's expectations.
MACCALLUM: Great to see you guys thank you very much.
THIESSEN: Thanks, Martha.
MACCALLUM: So, as Mike just reported, Democrats remain the defiant at this hour as to who is to blame for the shutdown showdown, as we're calling it tonight. Just a short time ago, Democratic Congressman Steny Hoyer, saying this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. STENY HOYER, D-MD, HOUSE MINORITY WHIP: Democrats have consistently ready and willing to sit down at the negotiation table and reach an agreement with our Republican colleagues, but we will not be blackmailed. We will not be blackmailed because Republicans are unwilling to compromise.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Joining me now, Senator Tom Cotton, of the Budget Intelligence and Armed Services Committee. Senator, good to see you tonight.
SEN. TOM COTTON, R-ARIZ., UNITED STATES SENATE COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES: Good evening, Martha.
MACCALLUM: The last word that we received here is that Mitch McConnell is on the floor again. Are we going to see a vote tonight?
COTTON: I hope so, Martha. I don't think we should be shutting down our government for what the Democrats are demanding. I mean, after all, there's a bill on the floor that would fund the government for another month, and it would also will fund health insurance for poor kids for the next six years.
And the Democrats are saying they're going to reject that bill because they not only want amnesty for millions of illegal immigrants, but they also don't want to take steps to secure our border and stop future flows of illegal immigration and unskilled immigrants as well. I just don't think that some guys are going to fly with the American people.
MACCALLUM: OK, just give us a sense from where you are, as to whether or not there's movement at this moment. I mean, there's something changing, do you have Democrats who were saying that do want an off-ramp, as Chris Stirewalt just said, and that they don't want necessarily want this around their necks.
COTTON: Well, Martha, as you probably seen, we've had a number of Democrats in the last couple of hours, coming out saying, they're going to vote for this bill. You, know, Joe Manchin from West Virginia, Joe Donelly from Indiana, Heidi Heitkamp from North Dakota, I can just tell you there are lot of other Democrats who have to face the voters in 10 months.
And they don't want to shut down the government and deprive American citizens of government services to include health insurance for poor kids because they don't get an amnesty for millions of illegal immigrants. That is simply not a position that they want to take to the voters on November.
MACCALLUM: Yes, I want to ask to be if Lindsey Graham and Dick Durbin thought that they were pretty close to a deal last week? And the way Dick Durbin, described it is that when he showed up at the White House for the Thursday afternoon meeting and he saw you in the room, he knew that something had changed in the dynamic. Did you pull -- did you pull the president away from the deal that Durbin and Graham thought they had with them?
COTTON: I think, the president realized that Senators, Graham, and Durbin have sold him a bill of goods until that morning. And that what they are pitching to on this --
MACCALLUM: Did you help him realize that, Senator?
COTTON: No, I didn't speak to Donald Trump that morning until we all walked into the Oval Office. You know, look, the president campaigned on a number of issues but there's no issue that was more fundamental to his victory than immigration.
And controlling our borders and getting an illegal immigration policy that works for the American working man and women. That helps create new jobs for them and helps get them wage increases. That's been the president's flat form for two and a half years now. So, it's one thing to get a bill pitched to you on the telephone, it's another thing to start looking at the particulars.
So, I think, what happened that morning is the president realized that he will being sold a bill of goods, and he took firm stand that he's not going to have amnesty for illegal immigrants without ensuring that we securing our borders and that we stop future illegal immigration. And then, we begin this shift for the merit by system.
MACCALLUM: So, I understand that, but he is made it pretty clear that he loves the Dreamers, that he thinks they're great kids and that he wants to find a solution for them to stay here. So, I guess, you know, what are you willing to give on the other side? You know, to find some middle ground on that. If you guys have given in on allowing them to stay, which is a concession on the Republican side, you know, what do you think Democrats will put in that pot to make this happen?
COTTON: Well, Martha, that's exactly right. That's amazing thing about where we are tonight. Is that the president and most Republicans in Congress have said, we're willing to give legal protections to hundreds of thousands of young illegal immigrants here through no fault of their own. The Democrats now need to come to the table and be willing to offer concessions to secure our border and stop extended family reunification and begin to move towards a merit-based immigration system. That's what we really talking about here because most Republicans agree with the Democrats that we should give legal protections to the persons that have a DACA work permit. The Democrats are refusing to give anything else to returning the will and shut down the government over.
MACCALLUM: All right, just one last question (INAUDIBLE). There were some polls done and people who responded to them said, you know that if there was a shutdown they would blame Republicans. But then, when they were asked if there was a shutdown and it was over DACA, who would you blame? And more of them said, Democrats. Do you think that notion has started to sink in tonight with Democrats?
COTTON: I think if probably has, Martha. Because it's clear that if we have a shutdown of the government tonight, which I hope that we will not. It will be because the Democrats are unwilling to vote for the spending bill and give seven more weeks before we reach our deadline for a deal on a DACA program. And that's give me very clear for Democrats still a bust to spending bill or don't accept some other reasonable compromise.
MACCALLUM: All right. Well, we'll see what's happening. It seems like the ground is shifting a little bit, and we're going to stay tuned. Senator Cotton, thank you very much. Good to see you tonight.
COTTON: Thanks, Martha.
MACCALLUM: You got. So, as we watch and wait, and see what is going down there about the spending bill. There is another big story that is brewing on Capitol Hill. The quote, "shocking and alarming memo," detailing government surveillance is sending shockwaves through Washington.
Republicans claim the classified document reveals proof of political biased at the FBI and the Department of Justice under President Obama. And it may have massive implications on the Trump-Russia probe as well. Chief National Correspondent Ed Henry, live at the White House as there are growing calls tonight for Congress to declassify this monument, it's all over Twitter. And it is making -- they want them to make these findings public so that everybody at home as well can take a look at them. Good evening, Ed.
ED HENRY, CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Good evening, Martha. In fact, some Republicans tonight are calling it worse than Watergate. Another congressman, in fact, comparing it to KGB activity inside the old Soviet Union. Which is ironic, of course, because this whole investigation started out as a probe as to whether there was Russian collusion with the Trump campaign. Instead, it is morphing into allegations that there was corruption inside the Obama administration, instead.
Bottom line is more than 115 House Republicans have seen a four-page memo laying out evidence of what's called FISA abuse by the Obama administration. Congressman Mark Meadows said it was so shocking, he wishes he had not read it because he could not believe it happened in this country.
Congressman Scott Perry, says he literally wondered if this happened in America or as I noted a moment ago, in the Soviet Union. These lawmakers say, they can't spell out exactly what's in the memo because it includes some classified info. But, pressure building tonight for that memo to be made public. You noted it "#ReleaseTheMemo," trending on social media.
Here's what we do know about the memos, authored by House Intel Chairman Devin Nunes of California. As Fox reported last week, he privately told colleagues, he seen evidence of FISA abuse by FBI and Justice Department officials. Other lawmakers who have seen this memo have told us Nunes was referring to Obama officials using unverified information from that dossier put together by Fusion GPS co-founder Glenn Simpson and a former British spy Christopher Steele.
Remember, last night we reveal that Simpson testified that Obama Justice Department hold over Bruce Ohr, whose wife worked for Fusion GPS asked Simpson to turn over information to the Obama Justice Department. That led Republicans who have seen the memo to declare that Ohr and other top justice officials like Rod Rosenstein, may lose their jobs for letting that info be used to get FISA warrants. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MATT GAETZ, R-FLA., HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Any American that would see this document would feel as though people like Rod Rosenstein, and Bruce Ohr, need to be fired immediately, and that they're continued activity at the Department of justice is a threat to the country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: Now, one former Trump advisor believe to have been under surveillance Carter Page, lashing out at Glenn Simpson for testifying. That Page was targeted by Russians because he was quote, "greedy and lonely".
Page, telling Fox cor., "Hopefully if Congress does the right thing and decides to #ReleaseTheMemo, America might soon learn some real facts about the illegal U.S. government propaganda campaign intended to obstruct justice and rig the 2016 election."
Now, we should note the top Democrat on the House Intel Panel Adam Schiff, says this memo is misleading and that is they're trying to distract attention from the Trump investigation. But the bottom line is that Devin Nunes, could hold a vote within the Intel Committee and with a simple majority, he could push to have this memo released to the public. And as long as President Trump does not object within five days, it would made public, Martha.
MACCALLUM: Ed, thank you very much. Here now with more on this, Congressman Jim Jordan, his ensemble to judiciary and oversight committee and has read what is being called the shocking memo as you heard from Ed Henry's report. Congressman, good to see you tonight.
REP. JIM JORDAN, R-OHIO, HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Good to be with you.
MACCALLUM: Can you -- I know that you are -- you're all not talking about classified information that's in this four-page document that was put together by Devin Nunes. Which basically collates all of their investigations that he wanted all be to see. You've read it, do you believe that there is a crime in there committed by the DOJ and the FBI or members of those entities?
JORDAN: Look, what I believe is what my colleagues have said, what I have said is the American people need to see this. We want the journalists in this great country to see this. But mostly we want the American people to understand what the FBI did, how wrong it was.
And again, we're not allowed to talk about it. But the last put we have made is right on target that committee can meet today, can meet tomorrow. And from majority of the committee votes to release this, it goes to the White House. The White House can say, thumbs up or thumbs down. My guess is they're going to say thumbs up, and then it's out there. And the American people can see what took place at the highest levels of our FBI, at the highest levels of the Justice Department that should not happen in this great nation.
MACCALLUM: So, what's the plan on that? Why didn't they meet today if it's so urgent?
JORDAN: Look, I'm for pushing forward, I give the Chairman Nunes a lot of credit. He is pushed hard, he is the one who put this memo together. We called for it a week and a half ago. Congressman Meadows and I, and others said, make Congress -- make this available to Congress, so we can see it.
And then, we think once we see it that there will be such a demand and such an outcry for this to go public -- that it will go public. So, I think that's building.
MACCALLUM: You know, it was compared -- it has been made to Watergate, which was a scandal -- an election scandal of digging into another campaign.
MACCALLUM: OK? Now, if this is worse than that, which is what Matt Gaetz of Florida has called it. It would draw a picture of an Obama administration attempt to derail the Trump campaign. Is that what's in these four-pages?
JORDAN: Again, I can't talk about the specifics, that's why we are pushing so hard to get public, so we can talk about the specifics. But, think about what we know a long time ago, the Clinton campaign paid for the dossier. Think about those text messages from Liza Page and Peter Strzok what they talk about. Remember the text message where they said, "Walking through Walmart, I can smell the Trump supporters." The derision they have for people who supported. The anti-Trump biased, the pro-Clinton biased, and then, think about the text message that talks about an insurance policy, to make sure Donald Trump is not elected by the American people. To all that this context --
MACCALLUM: I hear you, but all of those things are -- you know, you're allowed to not like the candidate. You're -- it doesn't necessarily mean that you're involved in a conspiracy to derail the (INAUDIBLE).
JORDAN: The same Peter Strzok, who ran the Clinton investigation. The same Peter Strzok, who interviewed Cheryl Mills, interviewed Huma Abedin, interviewed Mike Flynn in the Russian investigation. The same Peter Strzok, who change the all famous exoneration letter from gross negligence, a criminal standard to extreme carelessness. That same Peter Strzok who said, I can smell the Trump supporters in Walmart.
Has that kind attitude and the same Peter Strzok, whose deputy head of counter-intelligence. So, that's all stuff we knew. But we can't -- again, we can't get (INAUDIBLE) but that's why we were in public.
MACCALLUM: I hear you, let me ask you this because I remember on Evelyn Farkas, who was a member of the Obama administration who went on MSNBC and basically set -- let's play what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EVELYN FARKAS, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF DEFENSE (via telephone): I was urging my former colleagues and frankly speaking the people on the Hill. It was more actually aimed at telling the Hill people, get as much information as you can. Get as much intelligence as you can before President Obama leaves the administration.
So I became very worried because not enough was coming out into the open and I knew that there was more. We have very good intelligence on Russia. So, then, I had talked to some of my former colleagues and I knew that they were trying to also help get information to the Hill.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: All right. So, their argument was that they had uncovered this collusion that we've been talking about forever, between the Trump campaign and Russia. And that they were so concerned with what they have found. And we know that they had lowered the bar for classified information. So a lot more people could get their hands on it.
MACCALLUM: They admitted this much in the New York Times article, and then that interview. So, they wanted to be sure that those -- that those tea leaves were still out there when they left so that it wouldn't get dropped.
JORDAN: So, the unmasked of (INAUDIBLE) ends, of the unmasked of (INAUDIBLE) ends.
MACCALLUM: Is that part of -- is that part of what we're talking about here?
JORDAN: Again, I can't get into specifics, Martha. But the unmasked of (INAUDIBLE), we do know that happened. We do know what Chuck Schumer said. Chuck Schumer, said if you go -- if you go against the intelligence committee, almost sending a threat to the President-elect of the United States.
If you go against the intelligence committee, they have six ways of someday they getting back at you. So, we know that's take what was in make, we know the unmasking was done, and what do we also know? To date, not one bit of evidence which shows any coordination between the Trump campaign and Russia to influence the election.
But what we do know is the Clinton campaign paid the law firm, who paid Fusion, who paid Christopher Steele, the author of the dossier. And Christopher Steele did what? Paid Russians for that information to accomplish what goal? Influence the election, that's the great irony here. So, those are things we do know when this memo goes public, I think it will provide an even bigger and better picture for the American people to see how the FBI did what they did and how wrong it was.
MACCALLUM: Do you have all of the Republican members on the committee in favor of releasing the document?
JORDAN: That was the -- that was the vote yesterday, excuse me, yes, no, yesterday morning to make it available to members of Congress.
JORDAN: It was a partisan vote, Party line vote, Democrats all voted against it, of course. I believe they will, Chairman Nunes has done great work in his pushing hard to get it public. We're just after him to make it happen sooner rather than later.
MACCALLUM: Congressman Jordan, thank you.
JORDAN: Thank you.
MACCALLUM: Good to see you tonight.
JORDAN: You bet.
MACCALLUM: Happy weekend. All right. So, this just stands this evening. The Senate is trying to set up a 10 p.m. procedural vote to avoid the Schumer shutdown, as the White House has calling it tonight. So, there anything that can be done in these final hours to make a deal and to keep the government open? Budget Director Mick Mulvaney, is up next.
Plus, as we look back at year-one of the Trump presidency. Sean Spicer, one of its most memorable and colorful figures joins me live here on the (INAUDIBLE), to talk about everything from what really goes on in the White House, to what he said to the President the last time they spoke
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEAN SPICER, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I understand that Jonathan, where was your passion and where was your concerned when they all said that there was no connection to Russia? Where was it then? You couldn't get from me guys.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Tomorrow will mark exactly one year since I took the oath of office. And I will say our country is doing really well, our economy is perhaps the best it's ever been.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: As President Trump, noted earlier today, tomorrow marks the one year anniversary of his presidency. And perhaps fittingly it is not coming without cheer of drama. You are looking live at the Senate floor where Democrats and a few Republicans are refusing to vote yes on a measure to keep the government running. Although we're told that there may be a little bit of movement on all of this.
Democrats wanted a DACA deal to be part of this, and they said they would hold the whole thing hostage until they got it. Earlier this evening, I spoke with Mick Mulvaney, director of the office of management and budget, and asked what he hopes to see on that floor tonight.
MICK MULVANEY, R-DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET: I mean, what I'd love to see is the bill pass the Senate with every single Republican supporting and I hope they can find something to that. But face it without some bipartisan support on any spending bill, it's never going to pass. And simply cannot you need 60 votes to pass the spending bill in the Senate.
MACCALLUM: So, in terms of the economy, you know, now, there's a discussion that this could go on and on. I mean, it feels like both side are using this to make the other side look bad. So, where is the incentive for them to get this put together?
MULVANEY: Well, like this one -- again --
MACCALLUM: How long do you think it can go on?
MULVANY: On that for a second, we are -- we want the government to be open. We do not want to shut the government down. I think, if anybody wants to shut it down, it's the Democrats. You have to give them credit where credit is do, it's a politically smart move for them if they think that Republicans are going to get blamed.
I think the president has done a really good job, especially in the last 48 hours to prove that he is working hard to keep the government open. So, if does shut down, there is a reason it's called the Schumer shutdown. The only person who could really shut this down by himself is Chuck Schumer.
How long could it go? I don't think it goes very long. Martha, there is really no benefit to either side to make the military go to work, which they will. The government -- most of the government stays open, people just don't get paid. So, the military will use to be at work. Folks who are fighting the fires out west will stay at work. The borders still secured but we're asking those people to work with no pay. And that's not fair and you would hope that the Democrats would remember what they said in 2013, and not close the government down.
MACCALLUM: You did something and another topic this week that is really never seen in Washington. You said, your department has enough money that you don't need any more of money in this budget, which I think is pretty remarkable. And you have obviously have had a lot of successes in terms of the economy over the course of this year. When people look to 2018, and that you know, you can -- you can chime in on the successes for me because there's long list of them. However, what are your concerns as you look towards 2018?
MULVANEY: Like I did by 2018 is actually too good. I mean, it really is, I mean, all of this news is so fantastic, it's going to fold us to trying to keep that going. But, with Apple making the announcements they've had, all of this companies giving the announcements about giving raises and giving bonuses.
All the investment, the important -- the long-term stuff. The stuff that we said would happen under the tax bill I terms of money coming back into the country, new money coming into the country. Businesses reinvesting in themselves, those are tremendous success stories. The stock market is another success story. So, I think, what we've done is sort of raised the bar. We had great 2017. So, if I have any concerns, it's probably not the right word. If I had concerns about 2018, it's how do we keep it going?
MACCALLUM: Yes, I mean, people who look closely at the market say, it can't go on with that forever. I mean, it could bust, it could be that what we got us on 26,000 was the promise of these tax cuts. Now, they're here and already baking the cake.
MULVANEY: Yes, but -- and keep in mind, what I don't think is baked in the cake. Yes, it's not baked in the stock market numbers, you're not seeing at the GDP is the impact of the business decisions now the tax law has kicked in.
You saw a little bit in that first, you know, couple of days after the tax bill passed, you saw those businesses give the raises and the bonuses and so forth. But it's going to take some time for businesses to say, "You know what, I want to build a new factory" or "I'm going to move to the United States." So, I do think it is sustainable.
Importantly, we've not talked yet about the change in the regulatory climate. This is a structural long-term change of the economy. So, we're not just giving the economy a sugar high, it's not a stimulus. We are fundamentally changing the way that we do business in United States, to make it easier to the business in United States. I think we'll reap benefits in that for a long period of time.
MACCALLUM: There's no doubt that there's a quantifiable enthusiasm among business owners and consumers in this country. And those are numbers that you can absolutely measures.
MULVANEY: And what's not to be -- what's not to be enthusiastic about? I mean that -- on a point right is that is historic -- well, the -- I think the African-American unemployment rate is in all-time low. People are coming back into the work force. So, that was a lot to be excited about if you want to want to work in America this days.
MACCALLUM: Mick Mulvaney, good to see you. Thank you very much for being here tonight.
MULVANEY: Thanks for having me.
MACCALLUM: So we have two jobs tonight, we are watching the senate floor, we're also looking back on year one of the Trump presidency. Hard to forget what has often been a revolving White House door of sorts when it comes to who works for the president?
Tonight, we sit down with one of the most memorable members of the Trump early team for the first six months of the presidency. Sean Spicer was the face of the Trump administration in the press room doing battle with the press corps, the cast of "Saturday Night Live," and everything in between.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEAN SPICER, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: This was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration, period.
No, no, no. Hold on. No. At some point report the facts. The facts are that every single person who is briefed on this subject has come away with the same conclusion, Republicans, Democrats, so -- I'm sorry that that disgusts you.
Hold on. Hold on. And I am trying to answer your question, Jonathan, if you can calm down. If the president puts Russian salad dressing on his salad tonight, somehow that's a Russian connection.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Former White House press secretary, Sean Spicer, joins me now.
MACCALLUM: So when you watch that do you think, gee, I wish I still woke up every morning and walk into that.
SPICER: Look, it was an honor to do that, but you could probably can tell by the look on my face it's a lot more relaxing having the White House in the background than it is being in the briefing room. I will cherish the days that I have, but it's great to be able to watch the briefing instead of give the briefing.
MACCALLUM: How do you think it change? You know, you had a president who really broke the communications mold.
SPICER: There's a lot of molds.
MACCALLUM: There's no doubt that you can go in there in the morning and come up with your message and you know it's going to be totally different by the time you get off the podium.
SPICER: You're absolutely right. And I think one of the things -- I mean, Donald Trump ran as an agent of change, a disrupter, somebody who is going to come in and shake Washington up. And I think, love him, hate him, agree with him on every policy issue or not, there's no question that he fulfilled that mandate and brought real substantive change to how Washington does business and really fought for the forgotten men and women who he based his campaign on.
MACCALLUM: Do you keep in touch?
SPICER: I do. I do.
MACCALLUM: What did you talk to him about last night?
SPICER: I told him that I was writing a book. I kept up on him with the couple of the issues --
MACCALLUM: Was he concerned about you writing a book?
SPICER: No, he knows -- look, look, I always told him that it was an unbelievable honor to serve. But there's a story to be told. And I think one of the reasons that I wanted to write a book was because there're so many of these instances that occurred and I think people just saw one end of the camera or a New York Times reporter or political reporter or some false CNN story. What I wanted to do is walk back through the campaign, the transition, and say this is actually what I was going through at that time, and hopefully shed some light on things that people didn't see through the media's slanted lens.
MACCALLUM: How do you watch the whole year play out? Do you look back and say, well, if I was jumping in there today, I would get it --
SPICER: That's a great question because I think that we approached, or at least I did, the job from a traditional standpoint. Not fully understanding that we had a non-traditional president. And so, a lot of the norms and practices weren't what he was about. He campaigned and he said to the American people I'm going to bring change. And I think we, and me in particular, probably, should have looked at the beginning and say this isn't going to be business as usual. Let's adapt to thinner principle.
MACCALLUM: So, you know, in terms of the dynamic and the people at the White House. General Kelly has, you know, sort of, channeled things differently.
MACCALLUM: You can't just walk in. You have to have an appointment. There are some stories that say the president doesn't love that arrangement but he goes along with it, and it has streamlined things. Do you think that Reince Priebus should have been better at organizing who gets in, who gets out, or could he have done that?
SPICER: Look, I think in hindsight there's a lot of us to look back. And myself, as first in line there saying that we could have done things differently, but it was new. There was so much new. And there were so many personalities and so many things that we wanted to get done in a huge establishment that we're fighting. Never mind a just furiously negative media corp. So, I think it's tough to look back and say -- yeah, sure, there's a lot of things that if I knew now, we could have done differently. But I think that, you know, even in Sarah's case she's just doing an absolutely bang up job. But I think she had the ability to look at a lot of the things that I probably could have done better or do differently. And I think has embraced the role and taking it to another level.
MACCALLUM: So now that Steve Bannon is gone, there's discussion that Anthony Scaramucci might come back. And that is one of the catalyst that sent you saying I'm out of here. Do you think he should go back and he should get a role again?
SPICER: That's, obviously, up to the president to decide. But I think that the communications operation right now under Sarah and Mercedes Schlapp and Hope is doing a really good job. They're communicating as with evidence with the tax bill. They did a really, really good job. They've done a fantastic job of branding this as Schumer shutdown and making sure people understood what the president is fighting for and what the president's priority are in terms of the American people. So, I would say keep going with what you got. It's working really well. At the end of the day, I will let the president make the decision about what kind of counsel he's going to keep.
MACCALLUM: Sean Spice, thank you.
SPICER: Thank you.
MACCALLUM: Good to see you tonight.
SPICER: Good to see you.
MACCALLUM: Take care. All right. So, this just in, Democratic leaders are huddling right now, we understand, behind closed doors, they're trying to decide if they're going to make a deal with Republican to keep the government funded after midnight. Perhaps they're deciding that they don't necessarily want this to be part of their legacy at this point. We will let you know where this stand. The blaming has gone on both sides as you know. Tom Perez, the chairman of the Democratic Party sits down with us next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: Trump-care, Ryan-care, I'd tell you what I call it, I don't care because those Republican leaders and President Trump don't give a (BLEEP) about the people they were trying to hurt.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: So, as you remember from the moment President Trump came down that elevator in the summer -- it was an escalator, actually, in the summer of 2015 to announce that he was going to run for president, and even after the election, his biggest critics have repeatedly insisted that he would fail. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: I'm personally am convinced that he is going to fail. Not because of people like me who would like him to fail, but because his ideas that guide him are inherently self-contradictory.
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: Here's what's going to happen, this is why we won't have to suffer through 4 years of Donald J. Trump. When you have a narcissist like that, who's so narcissistic that it's all about him, he will, maybe, unintentionally, break laws.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Sounds pretty scary. David Bossie served as Trump's deputy campaign manager and author of the new, New York Times best seller, Let Trump be Trump, and Richard Fowler, nationally syndicated radio talk show host, both are Fox News contributors. Gentlemen, welcome. Good to have you here. So, we remember all of that. And some people think that it's been a terrible year, and some people think that it's been a great year.
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: Of course.
MACCALLUM: And I think of Paul Krugman who told us that the market was going to, perhaps, cease to exist. That it was going to break. That it was going to be absolutely bottom out, Richard. And that has not been the case at all.
RICHARD FOWLER, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: No, I give the president credit for the stock market gain. I think he gave Wall Street what they wanted. They wanted lower taxes. They wanted the ability to move money -- repatriate money back in the United States. They wanted the ability of less regulation. The president gave them that. The question is now will Wall Street and corporations return the favor for the president and create jobs for Americans? We're seeing signs that some of them are doing it. Others are laying people off. We'll see what happens. But I give the president credit for the stock market gains. There other things that he did very wrong. Though we'll talk about that as this segment goes on.
DAVID BOSSIE, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: This president has been leading the way on the economy. He's done an amazing job. He's a businessman who ran a lean business in the Trump organization and running the government very much like that. I am so excited for all Americans because their 401-k's are recognizing the brilliance, the genius that is President Trump's economic plan.
MACCALLUM: All right. So where are the failures as you see them, Richard?
FOWLER: Well, I think there's a couple there. The things the president promised the American people a couple of things when he came into office, he promised to bring the country together. I think every poll and I think if you talk to most Americans they would say the opposite. I think this country is more divided than ever. I think people are, literally, at their polls. We see it with this government shutdown looming. I think if you talked to --
BOSSIE: It's on the Democrats.
FOWLER: No, no, no. You can't blame it on the Democrats when Republicans have control of both the house, the senate and the White House. There's one president, period. There's a lot of members of congress. There's a lot of senators. There's one president. He promised he's going to bring this country together, and we have seen nothing but the opposite.
BOSSIE: And under Barack Obama we saw division --
FOWLER: That's fair. But he's no longer president.
MACCALLUM: You know, the one thing that doesn't -- there are a lot of things that don't match up, right? I feel like we don't have a true sense of what the country thinks about the presidency because when you look at the polls, you know, he's at 38, 39, 40 percent. Then, you look at things like the New York Times editorial the other day, you look -- CNN did a roundtable of swing voters who, you know, really were very enthusiastic. So, I'm wondering if the polls are like they were during the campaign and we don't really have a good sense of what people think and feel out there.
BOSSIE: I think there are a lot of people who still don't admit that they are supporters of President Trump. And I do blame the Democrat Party. I blame the leaders of the Democrat Party who have no vision, no ideas and no policy initiative for the American people, and haven't had one, haven't had any for years. And what they do is they attack, attack, attack. And that's all they've done for this one year. Not one time when President Trump invites them to the White House, they stick it to him. They lie. They go in there and they don't want to make deals at all. And you look at what's going on today.
FOWLER: David, first of all I think that's not true because Chuck and Nancy made a deal with the president to keep the government open last time, number one. They raised the debt ceiling and kept us from defaulting in our debt without Republicans. Number two, before you can talk about Democrats and criticize Democrats, it's very clear we are not in control of either -- there's more conservative justices on the Supreme Court --
FOWLER: Wait a minute. We're the minority in the house. We're a minority in the senate. And we don't have the White House --
MACCALLUM: You're going forward. The next year is going to be all about the mid-terms, right? And the reflection of that on this president. Estimates are that that Democrats are going to pick up 30 to 40 seats right now. Do you believe that?
BOSSIE: No, I don't. I think the economy is going to be booming in November. The jobs that you're talking about, Richard, you're exactly right, is going to have an impact because the unemployment rate is going to continue to go down, the stock market is going to continue to go up, and people are going to understand it's the economy, stupid, as we all --
FOWLER: I think that theory only works in a case where you have a candidate that is actually likeable. All the polls, all history indicates any time a president's approval rating is below 40 percent, he loses 20 or 30 seats. This president --
MACCALLUM: But David gave the president a D, and Richard gave him an A.
MACCALLUM: All right. So coming up -- we're going to a break here, guys? So breaking tonight on Capitol Hill, Fox News catching Senator Lindsey Graham just going into senate minority leader, Chuck Schumer's office as the deadline inches closer to a government shutdown, so what are the Democrats doing? How is this being held up on the hill right now? DNC chair, Tom Perez, weighs in next.
MACCALLUM: So everybody is on edge tonight. We have just learned that the senate Democratic caucus will meet at 8:30, the Democrats is essentially holding the budget hostage until they get what they want on DACA. They have said that they will not do a deal unless they get that, and they blame the Republicans if the government shuts down at midnight tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, sit down with all of the people who want to resolve these issues for the American people. Mr. President, do your job.
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: There is absolutely no reason on God's green earth for the Democrats to insist on shutting down vital government services for all 320 million Americans.
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: Republicans control the U.S. senate. They control the U.S. house. And a Republican is in the White House. Please do not shut the government down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Tom Perez is chairman of the Democratic National Committee. Tom, welcome. Good to have you here tonight. So, you've heard the set up. The suggestion is that from your side that they have all of this control, they ought to be able to keep it open. But we know that they need 60 votes in the senate, they only have 51 Republicans in the senate, so they can't do it without Democrats.
TOM PEREZ, DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: Well, I mean, this is unprecedented. There's never been a government shutdown when one party has control the White House, the senate and the house.
PEREZ: But they don't have 50 votes for the house bill and the senate right now --
PEREZ: So there's 60 and 50 is not relevant. And, you know, the thing that is so frustrating to me is there was a bipartisan deal that Senators Graham and Durbin have negotiated. And if you brought a clean DACA bill up in front of the house and in front of the senate, it would pass comfortably because the overwhelming percentage of the American people support it.
MACCALLUM: But that's not what we're hearing. What we're hearing is what happened on Thursday that they had, sort of, the sketches of a deal between Graham and Durbin. But then -- we've just talked to Senator Cotton about this a little while ago. Then when they all got back in the room both sides, sort of, has gotten some heat from their base that they were not getting enough. Senator Durbin was pushing for the temporary status of various countries to be reinstituted, and that backed everybody back into their corners. But the question is, does this deal tonight has only a couple of things in it? It funds the government and it also allows for the children's health program to go forward for 6 months. What don't you like in that deal?
PEREZ: As the defense department said today, we can't be governing by one week at a time. And when you look at all of the other issues --
MACCALLUM: But what don't you like in the deal that's on the table that the house passed?
PEREZ: What I don't like is the fact that it doesn't deal with the issues of relief for people who are victims of hurricanes. It doesn't deal with the opioid epidemic. It doesn't deal with huge issues --
MACCALLUM: So it's not about DACA? It's about those other things?
PEREZ: It's about DACA and it's about many other things. And it's about the fact --
MACCALLUM: But everyone's been told that it's about DACA, that they want DACA in or that's it. No deal.
PEREZ: DACA is a very important part of this, but the failure of the
Republican White House, the Republican senate and the Republican house to fund the government when they have --
MACCALLUM: But they can't fund the government. They said we can fund the government and we're going to do it with the children's health program and we're going to keep going.
PEREZ: You know what? And then in a week you have another impasse. And then, in a week later you have another impasse.
MACCALLUM: But it sounds to me like you guys are throwing more stuff in the pot. Now you're talking about opioid -- you're talking about parody, right? So you're saying if you're going to get the defense spending we want more domestic spending. And I think that might have been what Senator Schumer did when he went into the White House today, because they said he started to throw a lot more issues --
PEREZ: Democrats position throughout because we care about making sure --
MACCALLUM: So there was no deal then between Graham and Durbin that was done in (INAUDIBLE)
PEREZ: Neither of us were in the room.
PEREZ: You know what? I mean, here's the bottom line.
MACCALLUM: Do you want a deal?
PEREZ: I absolutely want a deal. But you know what? Last May, if you look at May 2nd on the president's twitter account, he said a government shutdown would be a good thing. That's what President Trump said last year. Well, you know what? He shouldn't have said that last year because it was reckless. And the problem is --
MACCALLUM: Why is it not reckless now? He's saying he doesn't want a shutdown. Republicans say they don't want a shutdown. And you're saying it would be reckless to have a shutdown.
PEREZ: No, I'm saying the ball is completely in the Republican's court to avoid a shutdown. You simply --
MACCALLUM: OK. But the house passed the bill, right? They pass this continuing resolution including the chip program. The senate has that bill. The White House said they'd sign that bill. We can't get that --
PEREZ: It's completely within the Republican leadership's ability right now --
MACCALLUM: If they add opioids (INAUDIBLE).
PEREZ: To do their job is what I'm asking them to do. To make sure that the dreamers are protected. To make sure --
MACCALLUM: This is about DACA.
PEREZ: It's about DACA and many other things. It's about the things that are basic to how we live and communicate.
MACCALLUM: Let me ask you this because there's a lot of federal workers, lot of military folks who hear that, and they say -- so you're saying that we can't continue paying us, all those federal workers out there, because you want to hold the deal up in order to cover people who are here illegally?
MACCALLUM: You're going to hold their paychecks hostage because you want to cover the DACA kids. Is that right or not?
PEREZ: We want to make sure that we pass the budget that addresses all of the functions and responsibilities of government, including making sure that we are providing adequate funding for opioid addiction, making sure that we provide adequate funding for people who are victims of hurricanes. Making sure we have funding for dreamers. That's what we need to do.
MACCALLUM: Tom Perez, thank you. I'm out of time. It's good to have you here.
PEREZ: Take care.
MACCALLUM: Thank you, sir. We'll take a quick break and we'll be right back.
MACCALLUM: So the last time they passed a budget on time, Donald Trump was married to Marla Maples, Oprah has just started her book club, Bill Clinton became the first Democrat to win the presidency twice, Hillary was wrapped up in Whitewater and testifying before a Grand Jury, and the Macarena was sweeping dance floors across the nation. Those were the days, right? That is our story for tonight from D.C. Stay tune for all of the breaking coverage of the shutdown. Tucker is up next.
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