Do Democrats Really Want to Win the War in Iraq?

This is a partial transcript from "The O'Reilly Factor," Mar. 16, 2005, that has been edited for clarity.

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BILL O'REILLY, HOST: In the "Personal Story" segment tonight, I've been telling you for more than a year now that some on the far left want the USA to lose the war in Iraq. And not do very well in the war on terror. —Now that's just my opinion. I could be wrong, as always. —But listen to this exchange between Jon Stewart and Democrat Nancy Soderberg who has worked as a high-ranking foreign policy official in the Clinton administration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY SODERBERG, FORMER CLINTON ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: As a Democrat, you don't want anything nice to happen to the Republicans And you don't want them to have progress. But, as an American, you hope good things would happen.

I think the way to look at it is they can't take credit for every good thing that happens, but they need to be able to manage it. I think that there is also going on in the Middle East peace process — they may well have a chance to do a historic deal with the Palestinians and Israelis.

These guys could really pull off a whole series of Nobel Peace Prizes here...

JON STEWART, "THE DAILY SHOW": This could be unbelievable.

(CROSSTALK)

SODERBERG: ... here which — it may well work. I think that...

STEWART: Oh, my God. These guys — you know...

SODERBERG: ... it's scary for Democrats.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'REILLY: All right. "Scary for Democrats"...

Joining us now from Washington is Nancy Soderberg, the author of the book "The Superpower Myth: The Use and Misuse of American Might."

You know, I like Stewart. I think Stewart's an honest guy. He's a liberal guy, a Democrat, and he got the message right away and not — you're not the only guest that he's also said this to — that the Bush administration may win big in the Middle East and in the War on Terror. If so, it makes it very difficult for Democrats to get elected in 2008.

Now, because of that reality, don't you feel that some Democrats are rooting for the Bush administration to lose in Iraq and, indeed, even in the War on Terror?

SODERBERG: Actually, I don't. I mean, I think, first of all, Jon Stewart is a late-night comedian. It's a fake news show. So you have to keep that in mind with what he says and what his guests say on there. I think he's very funny, but it's a fake news comedy show.

I actually think that Democrats very much want George Bush to succeed not only because it's in the best interests for Americans, but...

O'REILLY: All right. Let — let me stop you there. So you think Michael Moore (search), Barbra Streisand (search), The New York Times, the L.A. Times, Stuart Smalley (search), the Air America crew all want President Bush to succeed in Iraq in the War on Terror? Really?

SODERBERG: I do. I do, and that's — you know, and the reason is it's good for them, it's good for America. We don't want to have to spend hundreds of billions of dollars and lose more lives in Iraq.

O'REILLY: Then why don't they ever say that, Ms. Soderberg?

SODERBERG: Well, I think...

O'REILLY: If that were true, why have the...

SODERBERG: ... they're — I think they're concerned...

O'REILLY: They have never...

SODERBERG: No, no, no. They're concerned about the — they're concerned about how the war was handled, how it's done. They want America to get it right, not wrong. They feel Bush has gotten it wrong in the last four years. That's a lot of what the book is about.

What — it's also Democrats have a successful second — if Bush has a successful second term, Democrats can get back to the facts in 2008. They were never able to get to the facts in 2008 because the Bush campaign ran a campaign of scaring the American public into thinking Saddam Hussein (search) had something to do with 9/11-- when he did not-- [and] that they were going to be attacked again if they elected John Kerry.

So it will be good for Democrats if he can get back to the facts and have a campaign on the merits.

O'REILLY: All right, but I want to get back to your — I'm — you know, this is the second time I've been stunned. The first time was we had a debate earlier in the program where a University of Virginia professor told us that "The New York Times" isn't a left-wing newspaper, and, I mean, we're sitting here going...

I guess it's a matter of definition, but I am amazed that you're sitting there telling me that you believe that all of the people I cited want the United States to win the war in Iraq. See, I don't believe that for one second.

SODERBERG: Bill, you know, Democrats aren't as bad as you think they are.

O'REILLY: No, I don't think they're bad.

SODERBERG: You ought to talk to more of us now and then.

O'REILLY: No, no, no, no, no. There's a difference. There's a difference. The Lieberman wing of the Democratic Party certainly does, and it's not that Democrats are bad. Most Democrats are very good people. But the party's been hijacked by the far left, and the far left certainly doesn't want Bush...

SODERBERG: I don't think that's true.

O'REILLY: ... to get credit for anything — ever.

SODERBERG: Yes. I mean, I'm not — I'm not able to speak for the Hollywood list of officials that you talked to. I don't really know them. But I do know that the Democratic Party and certainly every presidential candidate that was running in the last election want America to succeed.

I think anyone in Congress would want them to succeed, and any person in a responsible position in Washington and across this country. There's no doubt about it. I think...

O'REILLY: No, I agree with you. Any responsible person is rooting for...

SODERBERG: People are very quick...

O'REILLY: ... his country to succeed, no matter what party.

SODERBERG: Yes, and...

O'REILLY: But now you made a statement that, you know, they want Bush to get it right and all of this. And, again, we've criticized the Bush administration for its failure to really run the aftermath of the victory in Iraq the proper way, and mistakes were made.

But now it looks like — it looks like — this whole thing could work out for the United States and could be great for the USA. But you still have an enormous amount of people who don't want the Iraq war, don't like it, think it was wrong, and I don't think those people are ever going to admit...

SODERBERG: It doesn't mean they don't want it to succeed. I don't — I don't — they may never admit that they wouldn't have...

O'REILLY: Well, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Of course, it means that. They want us to pull out right now.

SODERBERG: There's a difference between opposing the war — there's a difference between opposing the war and wanting them to succeed, and I think that we are there in Iraq.

If you look at the book, what I talk about is the super power myth is what the last four years were about. We thought we could bend the world to our will primarily on our own and primarily through military means.

I think there's a second-term conversion going on with the Bush administration. I'd like to think it's because they read my book. I think it has more to do with the fact that reality has seeped in. They're starting to talk well of the French. They're trying to work out...

O'REILLY: Yes, there's a P.R. campaign coming up, but you're flat out wrong...

SODERBERG: I think it's more than P.R.

O'REILLY: ... in the sense that — look, the Iraqi election was successful, stunning the world, and it was successful because America — and, to some extent, Britain, but mostly America — did go it alone, did remove the brutal dictator, did set up an apparatus where the Iraqi people could vote. None of that would have happened if the United States didn't take unilateral action. If the United Nations...

SODERBERG: Well, again, I...

O'REILLY: No, no, no. It wouldn't have happened. Saddam would have been sitting there. You would have had terror states from the Mediterranean to the Afghan border. You know it and I know it. Everybody knows that!

SODERBERG: Well — and I hope that Iraq — we've invested hundreds of billions of dollars. We've got 150,000 troops there that are going to be there for the foreseeable future. We've already lost 1,500 men and women, and we'll probably lose more. We are investing enormous amounts of...

O'REILLY: That's right. We are.

SODERBERG: ... blood and treasure in this, and it — it will work. There's no doubt in my mind it will work. It's going to be hard...

O'REILLY: Oh, that's interesting. You think it's going to work.

SODERBERG: ... and costly.

O'REILLY: See, I don't...

SODERBERG: Absolutely.

O'REILLY: I'm not even that optimistic as you are. I don't know...

SODERBERG: Oh, I think — you look at 8.5 million Iraqis came out, despite the threats of insurgence. They voted for a secular government, not an Iranian-style government. It will work. It's the question, though, of how long we have to stay there, how much of an investment we...

O'REILLY: You know, we'll see how that evolves.

SODERBERG: That's the debate we'll have. That's a good...

O'REILLY: All right. You made one other mistake, and I'm gently correcting you. Bush didn't win the election because he scared people. And both sides used scare tactics vis-a-vis Social Security. We see that happening now.

SODERBERG: No, you've had Dick Cheney (search) saying that if you vote...

O'REILLY: He won because John Kerry...

SODERBERG: ... for John Kerry, we'll have another 9/11...

O'REILLY: ...He won — no, no, no.

SODERBERG: ...that is not a statement that was anything other than a scare tactic.

O'REILLY: Look, Bush won the election because John Kerry did not have a better plan. That's why Kerry lost.

SODERBERG: Sixty percent of the American public today think that Saddam Hussein had something to do with 9/11. It's a deliberate campaign of misinformation that was putting out unfair scare tactics.

O'REILLY: All right. Well, we can debate that another day.

SODERBERG: We can debate it forever, but I think that...

O'REILLY: But remember Zarqawi (search) was an Al Qaeda and Zarqawi is running the terrorism now, and Zarqawi went from the Afghan battlefield right into Baghdad.

SODERBERG: Last time I checked, Bin Laden was still out there, too.

O'REILLY: Saddam...

SODERBERG: But I do think things are getting on the right track. I think they have a chance of a historic second term.

O'REILLY: And I hope we're all on the same team rooting for that. I really do.

SODERBERG: Absolutely. And I think they will do it.

O'REILLY: Ms. Soderberg, very interesting book, and we appreciate you coming on and talking about it.

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