Did A Goth Lifestyle Lead to Pamela Vitale's Murder?

This is a partial transcript from "The O'Reilly Factor," October 27, 2005, that has been edited for clarity.

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BILL O’REILLY, HOST: "Back of the Book" segment tonight. Sixteen-year-old Scott Dyleski was arraigned today for the murder of 52-year-old Pamela Vitale in California. Ms. Vitale is the wife of high profile defense attorney Daniel Horowitz.

One of the bizarre aspects of this case is that Ms. Vitale, police say, was brutally beaten and a Goth sign — a Goth sign was carved into her back. Authorities say Dyleski was involved with the Goth lifestyle, whatever that is.

Joining us from Columbus, Ohio, Dr. Dawn Perlmutter, author of the book, "Investigating Religious Terrorism and Ritualistic Crimes."

I don't think most of us know what this Goth thing is. Can you explain it to us?

DR. DAWN PERLMUTTER, AUTHOR, "INVESTIGATING RELIGIOUS TERRORISM AND RITUALISTIC CRIMES": The Goth is one manifestation of a number of dark subcultures. The Goth movement is almost sort of entry level, where teenagers get involved through music, through dress. It's sort of affiliated also with Satan — Satanism and sometimes a vampire scene. There's they're all very related subcultures.

O'REILLY: All right. So they dress in black and they wear black nail polish. I see them sometimes in that kind of a mode. Is it violent? I mean do they preach violence?

PERLMUTTER: The Goth movement itself doesn't preach violence. But in this particular case, the indications with Scott Dyleski was more of someone involved in Satanism, more so than the Goth movement.

He was carrying around — students referred to "The Book of Satan." What they meant was "The Satanic Bible," where the first book — the first chapter is "The Book of Satan." There have been numerous ritual murders with teenagers who have gotten involved in one or more of these subcultures.

O'REILLY: Now, what is the carving of the symbol into the body? That's No. 1. And I have to tell everybody that police continue to say this was a horrific beating, whoever did this. And we're not going to convict this kid. But he obviously has been arraigned. I mean, what is the symbol — is that what — what always happens in these kinds of things, a symbol is carved into the body?

PERLMUTTER: Mutilation is very common in ritualistic crimes. In fact, in almost every crime where a teenager was involved in the occult, they did some kind of heinous mutilation.

In the case in Florida withRod Ferrell (search), who bludgeoned two people to death with a crowbar, he had burned a symbol into their bodies, signifying his group.

There was a case in Bel Air, Ohio, where Nathan Brooks (search) had killed his mother and then cut his father's head off and offered it up to Satan in a ritual.

Another case in Virginia, in Loudon County, where a girl was involved in the occult with another kid, and she — they stabbed her father to death with a sword and cut symbols. They're always very heinous types of crimes. And what they're doing is they're attempting to do a sacrificial rite, and they're actually getting it wrong, because they're inexperienced.

O'REILLY: All right. Well, Doctor, it's a very — and you know, parents see their kids undergo a transformation like the Dyleski kid did, I mean that's a warning sign. This stuff is nothing to ignore.

Doctor, thanks very much for your expertise. We appreciate it.

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