• With: Rep. Charles Rangel


    RANGEL: You are very optimistic in believing that the Republicans are going to allow us to debate the president's budget.

    I hope you're right. But I don't think I will be coming back saying that the taxes on cigarette smoking is too high, but I think it's something that we should discuss. If not cigarettes, then what?


    CAVUTO: I appreciate your honesty, Congressman. Because at least you're saying something that many in the White House and many of the heads of your party have not said, that we have to broaden out the pool to pay for a lot of this stuff, and by that it would include -- it would include smokers ostensibly earning as little as $40,000 a year. It would include a lot more folks in that $100,000 to $150,000 a year who get entrapped some of these higher fees.

    Everyone is going to pay higher gas tax as a result of this, higher utility bills as a result of this. You're saying this is all for the common good.

    RANGEL: What I'm saying is that we haven't had a chance to get from the Republicans, not that they have a problem with the president's bill, but are they going to give it a chance to be heard, to be discussed, so that we have a Senate bill that they can tear apart, a president's bill, and then just take a look at their bill, there's no equity?

    There's no fairness in what they're talking about. All they are talking about is cutting.


    CAVUTO: And all you're talking about is taxing.

    RANGEL: Well, you ask any economist during the time that we're pulling out of recession whether laying people off is going to help at all for us to have economic growth.


    CAVUTO: Well, you tell me how raising taxes on anyone in the middle of a said recession is going to help anyone? What is better, cutting spending or raising taxes?


    RANGEL: What is better is having the revenue to get involved in increasing education, research development, improvement of our infrastructure to be a first-class nation.


    CAVUTO: But you're investing money we don't have, right? And you're assuming that the money you're getting out of the wealthy or now this expanded pool of people is still going to be there.


    CAVUTO: But, generally, the history suggests the more you hit them up, the fewer of them you have, and the fewer dollars you get.

    RANGEL: There is no option to say America does not have enough money to have an infrastructure that is capable of having us as an international trader and number one.

    There's no way to explain to the American people why we don't have enough money to develop the scientists and the people that we need in order to keep our research and development at the highest. America cannot afford to go backwards.

    CAVUTO: That assumes that the money they're giving for those purposes, Congressman, meets those ends. Right? That doesn't happen.

    RANGEL: Well, you bet your life it's going to meet those ends.

    CAVUTO: All right.

    RANGEL: It's going to create new jobs. It's going to create the revenue. And we are able to reduce the deficit.

    But if you take a look at the options the Republicans have, it really doesn't make sense to say that America is going to stand still, not raise revenue, and just cut the social programs that people are living on. That makes no sense.

    In any event, we got three different budgets.

    CAVUTO: Well, you do. You do.

    RANGEL: And I'm glad that we -- I'm glad that we are going to have some exchange on this.

    And I do hope that the American people allow themselves to be heard, especially our churches and our do-gooders and all of those people. Today, I asked the secretary of treasury, where was the big businesses and what were they thinking about this program where we have these taxes?

    CAVUTO: All right.

    RANGEL: And he said that big business stood behind the president. He said that to us this morning.


    CAVUTO: I don't know where you're going and I don't know what churches you're going to, but I hear the lord's name being used, but not quite the way you're reflecting it.

    But, Congressman, it's always good having you. Thank you very much.

    RANGEL: Good having you on the program.

    CAVUTO: All right, Charles Rangel.

    Content and Programming Copyright 2013 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2013 CQ-Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of CQ-Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.