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Virginia's No. 2 denies second assault allegation
Published February 10, 2019
This is a rush transcript from "Media Buzz," February 10, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
HOWARD KURTZ, HOST: On Buzz Meter this Sunday, the media seizing on the Democratic meltdown in Virginia where a second woman now accusing lieutenant governor of rape. Justin Fairfax is saying both accusers are smearing him and most liberal pundits still holding their fire.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS: Democrats know they have to believe all women. They have told us that countless times. But this time, they don't believe all women. They don't care about Vanessa Tyson.
SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS: These charges against Fairfax are beyond serious. Unlike the Kavanaugh accusations, well, in the case of Fairfax accuser, well, they actually recount a specific time, date and location.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And for a woman to come forward now and to risk exposure of her entire life, to risk humiliation in talking about this, you have to go with the woman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): I don't know if he's guilty or not but it looks bad. If he quits, he's admitting guilt of a rape charge, isn't it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want to maintain that moral high ground.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Do you expect --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- to go.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KURTZ: Is there a double standard compared with the media's pummeling of Brett Kavanaugh?
Amazon's Jeff Bezos accuses the National Enquirer of extortion. It is threatening to release naked photos unless he stops his own investigation of the tabloid's tactics. And I have new information on a bitter backstage battle among some of those fighting to protect Bezos and his girlfriend and track down the leaker.
Most of the press dismisses President Trump's calls for unity and bipartisanship in the State of the Union, saying his governing style is very different.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I saw this as a psychotically incoherent speech with cookies and dog poop.
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I thought for the first time, he actually tied to see in a serious way, appeal beyond his base. Go for the moderates.
RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST: Everything else he said in the speech will be overshadowed by the fact that he said there cannot be investigations. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There were some very moving moments. I think it was quite effective as an opening speech for the 2020 campaign.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ: Anthony Scaramucci, the one-time White House communications chief, joins our discussion. I'm Howard Kurtz and this is "Media Buzz."
Virginia Governor Ralph Northam seemed on the verge of resigning just days ago for wearing black face 35 years ago. But the media narrative changed when a professor named Vanessa Tyson accused Northam's potential successor, Justin Fairfax, of forcing her to perform oral sex after some consensual kissing in 2004, and he slammed her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUSTIN FAIRFAX, LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR OF VIRGINIA: So, this person then went into hiding and laid low in the weeds and then the second that this issue popped up here in Virginia and there is a lot of media attention crops back up with the same false allegation and uses others to get it out into the mainstream and the media.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ: Tyson said it has been extremely difficult to relive the traumatic experience from 2004. "Mr. Fairfax has tried to brand me as a liar to national audience, in service to his political ambitions." Now, a second woman, Meredith Watson, is charging that Fairfax was premeditated and aggressive in raping her at a Duke fraternity house in 2000. The lieutenant is also accusing her of smear. He softened his tone a little bit lightly but news organizations are gathering corroborating evidence.
Joining us now to analyze the coverage: Mollie Hemingway, senior editor at The Federalist and a Fox News contributor; Gillian Turner, a Fox News correspondent and former White House national security official; and Mo Elleithee, former Democratic Party official and a Fox News contributor who runs Georgetown University's Institute of Politics.
Mollie, with two accusers now saying that Justin Fairfax sexually assaulted them or raped them in the early 2000s, do you see a difference between this coverage and the way the media handled the allegation from 35 years ago against Brett Kavanaugh during those Supreme Court hearings?
MOLLIE HEMINGWAY, THE FEDERALIST: In many ways, this is a sad story in its substance and there is a lot that will have to be reported. From the media angle, I think The Washington Post comes out looking very poorly. They say they didn't run with the Justin Fairfax story even though they had this information about him last year because they didn't have --
KURTZ: They said they couldn't corroborate.
HEMINGWAY: They didn't have enough to go on when in fact, you know, you have a person who is making an allegation with a specific time and date and he concedes that there was a sexual encounter between the two. It doesn't seem like they ran that story down hard. But having said that, that's fine if they didn't run it, but then they ran the Brett Kavanaugh allegations when there was no corroboration for any of that.
You didn't have the specifics of a date, a location, a year. You didn't have any corroborating evidence. That makes The Washington Post look bad and it makes it look like they are willing to go with allegations for political reasons.
KURTZ: The Post has continued to do some reporting on these current allegations against Justin Fairfax. Gillian, we have Vanessa Tyson. We have Meredith Watson. The New York Times and The Washington Post in recent days have been able to interview on the record friends they told about these alleged assaults in the past either verbally or by email. So, isn't -- he said, she said -- isn't that important corroboration by the press?
GILLIAN TURNER, FOX NEWS: That's everything. That's the standard that has been the gold standard for many, many years. If you have people that are willing to go on the record or people that are willing to speak to you on background or on the record, that's everything. When there is no one who is coming forward to corroborate any of the stories as was the case with Brett Kavanaugh, that creates tension and difficulties as well it should.
KURTZ: Many Democrats including in Virginia, Mo, are urging Justin Fairfax to resign. The two women say they will cooperate with authorities or impeachment. Meredith Watson, for example, there is no statute of limitations in North Carolina where the alleged attack took place.
But liberal anchors and journalists, I must say, with a few exemptions, have sort of reported the facts without comment or said we don't know what happened, far different than the Kavanaugh case.
MO ELLEITHEE, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY'S INSTITUTE OF POLITICS: A lot of the folks I have seen, it is really interesting, both the Northam case with the black face and the allegations against Fairfax. It's really interesting to see sort of the unanimity of folks condemning and calling on their resignations, saying that they should step down or at least positing, that their political situation might be untenable.
KURTZ: Much more of it with Northam and the black face than the case --
ELLEITHEE: Absolutely with that, and I think with the second allegation with Fairfax, that's when the dam sort of broke. What's really interesting to me is -- I came up through Virginia politics, I worked there for about a dozen years, and I called on both gentlemen to step down. What is really fascinating is the apparent disconnect between all of us, the pundit class, the political class, the media class and voters.
The Washington Post just came out with a poll last night or this morning that shows voters or at least as it comes to Northam, evenly split.
KURTZ: Forty-seven --
ELLEITHEE: At 47-47. But nearly 60 percent of black Virginians urging the governor to remain or saying he should remain. And to me, that is a really fascinating disconnect between how rural talking about it and how Virginians are thinking about it.
KURTZ: Some conservative commentators are saying Justin Fairfax deserves due process despite the allegations. Look, lieutenant governor says he's being smeared by both of these women. So, what possible incentive do these two women have to come forward and to put themselves in this line? They are not suing. They are not asking for money. They are not going on TV.
HEMINGWAY: Well, it is true that in case of at least one of the accusers, the fact that she is in the same political party as --
KURTZ: Yeah.
HEMINGWAY: -- she is accusing should mean something. It is also true that people come forward with stories for any number of reasons and due process means that you do believe someone is innocent until they are proven guilty. Having someone who seems credible or having someone who seems sympathetic is not the same as actually meeting that standard.
It is important for the country to remember that allegations are easy to make actually and that proving them is much more difficult. But just to the larger point too of the media coverage, you don't have to work that hard to imagine what would be happening if the three top people in a state's government were Republican and going to a KKK photo scandal, credible allegations of rape and a black face scandal.
These are all happening. You would see protests. You would see narratives. You would say what is wrong with the Republican Party and why is this happening? The coverage of Virginia seems to treat it as if it's just very localized, as if Virginia is a weird place. You're not seeing those national discussions about what is the Democratic Party's problem with race, with sex and power?
TURNER: I think the media coverage though when it comes to maybe not the rape accusation but when it comes to the black face and KKK photos, the media, I think, overall this week played a positive role in moving that story forward in the sense that without the media coverage, when media coverage, it kind of broke the tidal wave of the political class coming forward and calling for resignation.
HEMINGWAY: That might be true. The point being that that is not something that you get when it's a Republican involved in this type of scandal. And that's the type of privilege accorded to Democrats that you don't see for Republicans.
ELLEITHEE: I agree with that. I mean, I received so many -- every major national media outlet in the country sent reporters down to Richmond, the number of them that called me at my office to say, what is going on with the Virginia Democratic Party? Is it imploded?
I mean, I think when it comes to issues of race and issues of sexual assault, both parties have now had to deal with some very, very difficult conversations and that the national media has played a very large role in opening up these conversations and picking at some scabs that were barely covering some impeachment.
K0URTZ: Justin Fairfax looked like he was at the verge of becoming governor and then these accusations come out. There were all of these anchors and commentators including liberal commentators demanding that Ralph Northam resign over his admitted use of black face, impersonating Michael Jackson. There is dispute about whether or not it was him in the yearbook photo, another racist photo.
We learned that the state attorney general, Mark Herring, second in line to the governorship, also admitted doing black face back in 1980. As despicable and as offensive as those black face images are, are the media in some ways imposing retroactively the stems (ph) of 2019 on stuff that happened decades ago?
ELLEITHEE: I think all of us are grappling with how to handle some of these situations right now. The entire Democratic establishment both in Virginia and nationally have called on Northam and Fairfax to resign. But you see now Virginians saying let's maybe not go that far. Black Virginians seem to be more open to forgiveness than a lot of us in this town are.
And so I do think -- I agree with Gillian that the media has played a huge role in furthering a conversation about not just race and sexual assault, but conversations about redemption, about how we gone -- are we digging too deep at times? What is appropriate and what is not? And I don't think anybody has real answer to that.
KURTZ: I want you to make a quick point in both of these cases. Justin Fairfax says yes he had sex with these women but he claims it was consensual. So obviously there were some bases for believing it. The media seems consumed now by these allegations of what politicians and office holders did 15 years ago, 25 years ago, and 35 years ago. Are we just had a zero tolerance level for anything?
HEMINGWAY: Well, this is a kind of weird standard. We used to say that what you did in high school or college, we kind of had an understanding about it. What makes it particularly weird in this case is this entire controversy got started because of something that is happening right now which is that the governor advocated for this radical, late-term abortion bill and even said that he supported the killing of children after they're born. That scandal is happening right now. It relates to policy right now.
And so to move the conversation away from this issue of having a governor who supports this barbaric practice and changing it to a conversation about what happened 35 years ago, it is good to have that conversation but you shouldn't leave the policy items there in play right now on the table.
KURTZ: That actually led to the current black face scandal because of sources who did not like the governor's standard of late-term abortion.
HEMINGWAY: And they released the photo because of that.
KURTZ: But let me ask you this. So, Northam now makes clear -- here is an interview in The Washington Post today, lead story. Northam vows a focus on race. He is not going to resign because obviously, the two people behind him in succession have problems. He did an interview with CBS's Gayle King, part of which aired this morning, African-American, saying he wants to devote the rest of his term dealing with issues of racial equity and other race-related matters.
So, is this media offense (ph) going to help him even though the Post editorial page and the Richmond Times-Dispatch editorial page say he should go?
TURNER: I mean, that's a nice idea that he has there, you know, and I hope that he has some success with it. The problem is that the tidal wave has already, you know, washed everything ashore here. Like I said earlier, I think large part in response to the media is, like, really overwhelming coverage of this issue.
What we are watching here is everybody grappling with the question of, well, is there a statute of limitations on bad behavior? Because there is no answer in the law, everybody is turning to the media to see what pundits and journalist have to say about it.
KURTZ: The media grappling with it as well. Let me get a break. Ahead, Jeff Bezos, the National Enquirer, The Washington Post, naked pictures and threatening letter. Could this tabloid mess get any uglier?
When we come back, the president, the pundits, the State of the Union, and Democratic investigations. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KURTZ: President Trump got mixed media reviews for his State of the Union but most of the press focused on his warning to House Democrats that they can't have legislative cooperation if they keep investigating him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: We must reject the politics of revenge, resistance and retribution. And economic miracle is taking place in the United States. And the only things that can stop it are foolish wars, politics or ridiculous partisan investigations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ: When Adam Schiff, the new House Intel chairman, announced a sweeping probe that will go beyond Russia and include Trump's personal finances, it drew a quick presidential rejoinder.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: He is just a political hack who is trying to build a name for himself. No other politician has to go through that. It's called presidential harassment, and it's unfortunate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ: Mollie, the media verdict on the speech and this was even true in advance was, yeah, you know, he gave a good speech but he doesn't really mean it.
HEMINGWAY: Yeah, it was interesting. I think part of the problem was that the media didn't get what they expected. They told us that this was going to be a very mean and angry speech. It was going to be all about attacking Democrats.
Instead, it turned out to be probably one of the best speeches he has ever given and it clearly went over very well with an even hostile crowd. I don't think they knew how to react to that and it also showed that their coverage leading up to at least false.
KURTZ: This did occur, Gillian, after a 35-day government shutdown. We are five days away from another deadline on either a shutdown or a national emergency on the wall. And the media, I guess, focused on the brushback pitch, the president saying you can't have cooperation in legislation if you're aggressively investigating me.
TURNER: Yeah. A lot of the mainstream media on that night reacting to the speech brushed off all his comments about working together in bipartisanship as embroidery. I know that was kind of a catch word, picking up steam around the networks. I think it was because it was coming from President Trump.
You know, that a lot of folks felt that they could just whole sale, dismiss it as meaningless. I do think that was a bias that showed through on that night. The other kind of undercurrent that was coursing around social media that day, the day of the speech and the following day, we all know -- Americans know that the State of the Union is kind of an outdated thing. It doesn't really mean anything anyway.
KURTZ: Almost didn't give it given the previous shutdown.
TURNER: You know, that is not a coincidence that it's in President Trump's second year and he's, you know, coming on the heels of this, you know, of this shutdown that everybody decided that.
KURTZ: Mo, some news outlets are very quick to point out that Republican investigations during the Obama administration especially Benghazi but also fast and furious and IRS were also criticized by some as being highly partisans and the president apparently wants to change the way this works.
ELLEITHEE: I mean, first, you know, I think one of the reasons why there is confusion into the speech about what it was going to be was because the White House was actually probably doing a pretty good job and I think probably strategically to sow that confusion, right?
I mean, you had some leaks saying he's going to throw a warm and fuzzy -- I think I saw that, but other leaks saying he's going to come out swinging. So I think the White House did a good job of creating some media discord there and purposely. But, look, I think that was probably -- the investigation thing was probably the newsiest thing that the president said.
Everything else he said with the exception of the one moment he had that I think actually spoke to bipartisanship was his applause of the Democratic women in Congress. But beyond that, everything else he said was pretty much what he had been saying every day leading up to that.
KURTZ: Right.
ELLEITHEE: This was kind of the newsiest.
KURTZ: But Trump did get the ladies in white, the democratic women who are wearing white to applause, actually stand up when he talked about the booming economy and helping women. No one expected that.
HEMINGWAY: Yeah, I don't think anyone expected that or that there will be singing in the chamber. The most interesting thing about that line, about endless investigation, I thought was that he said that we can't have endless war and that was a kind of a rebuke of -- a congressional rebuke he received. He's trying to end the 18-year in Afghanistan. They are trying to keep us there for another 18 or so years, who knows how long.
And so I think that was actually the interesting policy subtext. But even on the investigation thing, you heard people, oh, well, you know, during previous administrations you have been investigated for Benghazi or IRS scandals or fast and furious scandal.
The thing that makes those a little different, and I am a huge fan of congressional oversight for whatever they want to do it for, is that those were actually investigating administration issues. Investigating someone's personal life in the decades before they become president, that is actually very different than how we normally do congressional oversight, even if they have the right to look into it.
KURTZ: Mo, do you have response?
ELLEITHEE: Folks in Bill Clinton administration might disagree a little bit about that.
KURTZ: Ah, I remember that.
ELLEITHEE: Right, I mean, they were starting -- the investigation was launched over decades-old financial questions. And so --
KURTZ: And turned into Monica Lewinsky --
ELLEITHEE: And turned into something entirely different. So, both sides can point to -- yell about partisan investigations but this is one that I think we've seen has had some very real --
KURTZ: We will see if the Democrats overreach. Mo Elleithee, Gillian Turner, Mollie Hemingway, great to see you all this Sunday. Up next, Jeff Bezos accuses the National Enquirer of blackmail as the tabloid threatens to publish naked pictures unless he stops investigating its practices.
And later, Anthony Scaramucci on the media's treatment of the president and the Democrats now starting to investigate him.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KURTZ: Jeff Bezos, the Amazon founder and owner of The Washington Post, was embarrassed when the National Enquirer revealed he was an affair with former L.A. television host Lauren Sanchez, complete with steamy texts.
And yet many news organizations including The New York Times and the broadcast networks initially ignored that part of the story as if it didn't happen and just focused on Bezos's divorce. But now, Bezos is accusing the Enquirer of extortion.
President Trump's close friend, David Pecker who owns the tabloid, was granted immunity by prosecutors after admitting being involved in hush money payments to women who accused Trump of extramarital affairs. Federal prosecutors are now reviewing Bezos's allegations against AMI.
In a piece on the blog news site medium, Bezos says that because of The Washington Post coverage, the president considers him an enemy. He has called him Jeff Bozo. Parent company, American Media Inc., denies pursuing the story because of outside political forces. Bezos now says the company executives warned him or threatened him. "They said they had more of my text messages and photos that they would publish if we didn't stop our investigation."
Bezos made public a letter from Dylan Howard, AMI's top news executive, listing photos it has of the Amazon chief. These include a below the belt selfie, a naked selfie in the bathroom with only a white towel, and sexy shots of Lauren Sanchez.
Bezos says he was told the Enquirer would run these pictures unless he falsely told the press that he has no basis for suggesting the affair story was politically-motivated.
Bezos says, "If in my position I can't stand up to this kind of extortion, how many people can? Of course, I don't want personal photos published, but I also won't participate in their well-known practice of blackmail, political favors, political attacks, and corruption. I prefer to stand up, roll this log over, and see what crawls out."
AMI says the company fervently believes it acted lawfully in handling the story but that it is more decided that it should properly and thoroughly investigated the claims made by Bezos.
Now, whether or not David Pecker was doing this to please Donald Trump, that kind of threatening letter from a newspaper is extremely troubling. Bezos, a man who almost never talks to the press, could wind up doing further damage to what remains of the National Enquirer's reputation.
Next on "Media Buzz," I've got some new reporting on this whole mess and the behind the scenes sniping among people close to Jeff Bezos and Lauren Sanchez.
And later, "The Mooch" is here on the ongoing warfare between the president and the press.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KURTZ: As Jeff Bezos takes on the National Enquirer with the story on his affair with television personality Lauren Sanchez, a deep and sometimes bitter divide has emerged among some of those defending the couple.
Michael Sanchez, Lauren's brother, and he says are on and off manager, spoke to me about his strong objections to the strategy which has been overseen by Gavin de Becker, the Amazon founder's longtime security consultant. Sanchez who knew about the affair praises Bezos. He says, "a brilliant man who doesn't bow down to bullies of the time."
Unfortunately, Gavin de Becker, a very powerful bully, currently wheels a strange puppet master control over Jeff. Sanchez told me that while he was negotiating with Enquirer parent American Media Inc. owned by the president's pal David Parker to soften the story on the extramarital affair, de Becker, quote, "launch World War III against the AMI," in part, by advising Bezos to preempt the scoop with what Sanchez called a misleading tweet about his divorce from his wife Mackenzie.
Everything Gavin has gotten Jeff to do has only amplified the magnitude of the scandal, Sanchez told me. He said it's a disgrace that filthy rich and Uber powerful men are using the media to take shots at each other. The simple truth, Jeff and Lauren fell madly in love risk everything for each other.
Now Sanchez is also been on the receiving end. De Becker has told the Washington Post, which of course Bezos owns, and the Daily Beast that he is looking into the leak to the Enquirer and has spoken to Sanchez as part of that investigation.
De Becker is traveling overseas and declined to comment, but believes that as the man looking into these matters, he has to take an aggressive posture. And then those being investigated sometimes deflect attention by criticizing the investigators.
Sanchez who is a registered Democrat, and Trump's supporter has denied being the source of the leak. He told me it's irrelevant, that he's an acquaintance of Roger Stone, a Republican operative who has not pleaded not guilty to witness tampering and lying to Congress in the Mueller investigation and that he wants to do small business deal with Carter Page.
Former Trump campaign advisors who has come under scrutiny in the special counsel's probe has consulted Page about the leak.
Sanchez is friends as well with top executive Dylan Howard quote, "my friendships are being used as a weapon against me, but the dots don't connect."
Sanchez has urged Bezos and his sister to order De Becker to stand down this matter. He argues, for instance, that de Becker risk exposure of the affair by allowing the high-profile Bezos and his sister to appear together at restaurants, on private jets and at the launch for Bezos' Blue Origin aerospace company.
De Becker who has decades of experience in protecting big celebrities maintains there were no lapses in security, that photographers were tipped off about the couples' outings and it's not his job to prevent them from being photographed.
Meanwhile, Sanchez told me that Jeff Bezos and Lawrence Sanchez are in a force separation while precisely they agreed not to be together for one month as a precaution in this white-hot atmosphere.
Joining us now Buck Sexton, a radio host and co-host at Hill TV, and in New York, Jessica Tarlov, a Fox News contributor. So, Buck, this is pretty heated disagreement over P.R. strategy, but also Michael Sanchez is saying just because I have friendships with people in Trump world and at the Enquirer there's no way I'd be involved in a leak that would be damaging to my sisters. And no one knows yet where this leak came from.
BUCK SEXTON, CO-HOST, HILL.TV: This is a tornado of bad judgment unseemly behavior. There's a lot of different layers you can begin to here.
KURTZ: Yes.
SEXTON: Look, I think that Bezos coming forward and showing people that legal exchange or the exchange between the lawyers has raise some very big questions about the tactics of AMI, and more specifically, the National Enquirer of questions that probably some folks have been asking for a really long time. As to whether Bezos was poorly advised to get ahead of the story, I mean, it's tough to tell because we don't know how did the photos get out there, whose hands did they get into.
And obviously, Jeff Bezos has decided to declare a war, instead of going with an early surrender.
KURTZ: Declaring a war is an understatement. Jessica, Michael Sanchez is also saying on the record that Bezos security team didn't stop the affair from being exposed. But isn't enough to the couple themselves by how public they want to be.
JESSICA TARLOV, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: You would think that two consenting adults, which is what is going on here do have some decision-making skills of their own and they obviously knew what they were doing at this point.
I mean, I remember when the story came out originally, we were all just talking about how much Mackenzie Bezos was going to be making in the divorce. And there was very little focus on the affair content here especially because the initial text messages were really PG-13, you know.
I mean, Jeff Bezos was saying like I can't wait to see you and kiss you but there were certainly no below the belt selfies that play.
(CROSSTALK)
KURTZ: And I would say R-rated.
SEXTON: Got a little racier than that.
TARLOV: Well not NC-17 at the very least. This is another frontier that we've gotten to. But Buck is completely correct that we don't know yet how these pictures got there. And from the analysis that I've read so far from people who worked in VIP security, they are looking at Lawrence Sanchez's phone and not Jeff Bezos's phone as the one that would have been hacked or the leak would have come from.
KURTZ: Right.
TARLOV: So, there's more to see there. But I would also like to point out that Ronan Farrow, Terry Crews, the Daily Beast have all come forward saying that AMI has used the same tactics against them to try to get them to squash stories or to pay them off.
And I do think that it's important that people know exactly how this company operates, and I do think that making it clear that they are directly linked to President Trump and he has paid them off in the past himself is something that the media should be discussing.
KURTZ: When you say he's paid them off I think what you're trying to say is there was an involvement and immunity deal involving the hush money payments to one of those women such as --
(CROSSTALK)
TARLOV: Right. That's a payoff to make sure that the story about him --
KURTZ: OK.
TARLOV: -- having an affair with the Playboy playmate didn't make it.
KURTZ: All right. Now, just to be fair, the lawyer for AMI was on ABC News this morning said again this was not a blackmail. This was a negotiation about the naked pictures. This lawyer also said that the source of this it was close to Jeff Bezos and Lawrence Sanchez that it was a male and has been providing information to the Enquirer for seven years. So, you know, I don't want to speculate but that's the line AMI is taking.
What's your take, Buck, on Bezos, you know, taking the stuff of going so public, a guy who was never public to the press, calling out the extortion at Enquirer for what he sees as extortion and for trying to pressure him into dropping his investigation with the Washington Post investigation into this whole mess.
SEXTON: Well, I think people have very mixed feelings about Bezos's decision-making here on a number of -- a number of levels. We'll skip past the whole --
KURTZ: Yes.
SEXTON: -- affair and all of that for a moment. Look, we saw this with Peter Thiel when he decided to help go after a Gawker, which I know a lot of conservatives feel like was actually a great service to the public that Gawker is actually --
(CROSSTALK)
KURTZ: (Inaudible) the Hulk Hogan case --
SEXTON: Yes, the Hulk Hogan case, right.
KURTZ: That essentially put the white Gawker at.
SEXTON: Right. That when you play games with billionaires and decided that you are going to ruin the reputations put pressure on them and use your media outlet to do that you open yourself up to this kind of retribution and counterattack.
I think Jeff Bezos understands that it's likely these photos once they got out of positive control over two individuals, they are consenting adults in this relationship, it was like that somebody somewhere is going to leak them but you can't allow people to hold this over your head.
And I also think that people's perceptions of how damaging this really use consenting adults not illegal, I think that's changing as we go on longer too.
KURTZ: Well, the next twist in the story, Jessica, it could be that the federal prosecutors are now looking into Bezos's claim of blackmail --
TARLOV: Right.
KURTZ: -- because the Enquirer had this immunity deal which is not supposed to break the law and that anybody is ever supposed to break the law --
(CROSSTALK)
TARLOV: Yes.
KURTZ: -- in order to avoid class --
TARLOV: But especially not when you're cooperating with Robert Mueller.
KURTZ: Right. Or the Southern District of New York.
TARLOV: Yes, right.
KURTZ: So, we'll see. I mean, there's a lot of layers here as Buck said to unravel and we'll see whether the -- you know, and I don't think its help by all this behind-the-scenes stuff. There was an effort to have a truce among the parties around Jeff Bezos and Lauren Sanchez but that fell apart.
All right. Ahead on the program, guys, stick around, we'll bring you back a little while.
Ahead on the program, liberal anchors can't get enough as a White House source leaks Donald Trump's private schedule. Straight ahead with the president battling the press and House Democrats. Anthony Scaramucci is on deck.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KURTZ: With President Trump fresh after the State of the Union again battling with House Democrats as they gear up for investigations.
Joining us now from New York Anthony Scaramucci, the former White House communications director. And when the president warned the House Democrats now speak against ridiculous partisan investigations, otherwise he won't cooperate on legislation he says, many in the media said, hey, Republicans during the Obama administration lots of investigations, aggressive investigations.
Does the president really believe that House Democrats are not going to hold hearings and issue subpoenas and investigate his administration?
ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Well, I think he's resolved and resigned do the fact that they are going to do that but I think he likes saying those things as it's very important for the president right now to galvanize his base. And he knows that the base doesn't like these investigations.
And so just by tweaking them every once, Howie, he sends them that galvanizing message. I think one of the main reasons that's always been overlooked by the pundits why he shut the government down aloud that the state stay close is he's got to get those people whether it's 36, 37 percent to return to the polls in 2020 with the same voter participation level.
So, I think he does that intentionally and it is strategic.
KURTZ: The way it seems like you just acknowledge one of the criticisms of the president was that he shut the government down for 35 days disrupting the lives of hundreds of thousands of federal workers and not helping the economy so he could energize his base? I mean, I know he's trying to get the wall but, we're five days from another deadline. Is that what I just heard you say?
SCARAMUCCI: Yes, it's a combination of things. I would say that it's got three layers too. Layer number one is he promised the wall. He wants to deliver the wall. He's very, very concerned about border security.
Layer number two. He knows that he's got to bring those people out. He wants to -- he wants to send them a message that he is fighting for them. And then the third, the third layer is that as a result of the shutdown I do believe he'll get a deal, there'll be an intersection of a deal where you can really start building.
KURTZ: All right.
SCARAMUCCI: So, yes. I think it was -- I think it will prove to be a winning strategy when we look back at the 2020 reelect -- when the president has won reelection, you'll go back to December 21st to say that was the day that he started the deal.
KURTZ: I notice -- I notice how you just describe as a foregone conclusion. But let me nevertheless ask you this. You book is "Trump the Blue-Collar President." And the media handicapping is that Donald Trump is going to have a hard time in 2020 for these reasons. The shutdown would be one having trouble getting above 40 percent in the polls, doing poorly among women, playing to the base instead of sort of trying to appeal to more moderate voters all the energies on the Democratic side.
These are all things that I read in every news analysis. So why is that wrong?
SCARAMUCCI: Well, it's wrong because if you go back to where President Obama was at this time and the rhetoric around President Obama, he had similar numbers to President Trump.
It's wrong because the economy is actually doing quite well despite the volatility in the stock market. You know, I'm a trained economist and believe that the economy will trend higher into the 2020 reelection. It's very, very hard to unseat a sitting president then. It's also --
(CROSSTALK)
KURTZ: What about the president's personal conduct, do you think that people are just sort of used to Donald Trump style now whether they particularly like it or not.
SCARAMUCCI: Well, you know, listen. Now he was 69 years as a business person and every single flaw the president was out there, one of the problems that somebody like Elizabeth Warren, is because they're sitting at the podium with great sanctity and more rectitude and all this other nonsense is that when they're lying on their bar applications they get blown through the door.
But the president has been out there as a business person, not as a politician for the greater part of his life. So, I think people have sort of accepted that whatever his flaws are he's very effective.
But I just want to make this last point. Very hard to unseat a sitting president in a rising economy.
And if you look at where he was at the State of the Union address, if he continues with that messaging, he'll attract the independents he needs to win reelection.
KURTZ: All right. We've been talking about Jeff Bezos. The president obviously does not like him. And accusing the National Enquirer of blackmail for threatening in a letter to publish certain photos unless he does what the tabloid wants.
And of course, everybody points out was the Enquirer trying to help the president because his close friend David Pecker runs the tabloid. As someone who is tangled with the media, what do you make of Bezos calling out the Enquirer and do you think it's fair to at least for the media to raise the question about whether or not the effort here was to help the president.
SCARAMUCCI: Well, people are leaving out the fact that Mr. Pecker actually got immunity a couple of months ago and so I don't know if that created --
(CROSSTALK)
KURTZ: We mentioned that --
SCARAMUCCI: I'm sorry?
KURTZ: We mentioned that already. Go ahead.
SCARAMUCCI: OK. You did. But most people don't. And I don't understand why people don't think there might be a strain there with President Trump as a result of that immunity situation.
Look, I liked David a lot. I know him personally. I don't know Jeff Bezos. I think it was a very aggressive strategy. You know, at the end of the day sometimes you're putting a propane tank on top of a Duraflame log. I don't -- I don't know if Jeff was a friend of mine, I probably would not have recommended that to him.
You know, you know I've been in the media crosshairs. I took a month or two off and then went back at it pretty aggressively. I don't like people defining me. But I think the way Jeff is going about this by the way it's creating too much unseemly in this around him.
And you know, look, the guy is a brilliant guy, arguably richest person in the world and we're all benefiting from his services. If I was his advisor, I would have said let's go a little slow here. There's no reason to go in this direction.
KURTZ: Right.
SCARAMUCCI: But there's a lot of people praising him for this, saying that he has a set of courage and so forth and thinks it's a good idea but I'm sort of against it.
KURTZ: All right. Well, certainly has enflamed the story once again but he feels like he's standing up to tabloid pressure. Before we go I got to play a little sound bite for you. Roll it. Hang on.
SCARAMUCCI: Well, you can't say -- yes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello, guys. Surprise!
SCARAMUCCI: I'm actually not a big brother house guest.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ: There you are on celebrity big brother. Reality is not exciting enough for you so you decided to go the full reality TV world?
SCARAMUCCI: Hey, listen, you have a reality TV story, that's the American president. So, all of you elites out there in the punditry class and all of you politicians, wake up. The American people are watching that sort of stuff. And by the way, if he gets invited on celebrity big brother, I'll personally recommend that you go. It was one of the most fun things I did in my life out.
KURTZ: All right. Anthony Scaramucci pursuing a second career. I don't expect to be invited for the record. Great to see you, Mooch.
SCARAMUCCI: I keep you on, Howie. If you were my house guest, I'd keep you on. I wouldn't evict you.
KURTZ: Thank you so much. After the break, another off the record Trump meeting with network anchors leaks out and the mini frenzy over the president's private schedule and executive time.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KURTZ: It was an extraordinary leak to Axis. A White House source providing three months of the president's private schedule. Sixty percent of which was devoted to so-called executive time and that really set off the anti-Trump pundits.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NICOLE WALLACE, MSNBC HOST: Either way, the truth bomb had been detonated. Donald Trump doesn't do much of anything as president.
ARI VELSHI, MSNBC CO-ANCHOR: It's almost mind-boggling to see in black and white that the president spends most of his time not doing his job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ: Buck Sexton, one, what does it say that somebody who works at the White House leak this to Axios and two, the liberal pundits going, see, he's lazy, he sits around watching TV didn't do anything.
SEXTON: Well, it shows that there are people in the White House and with access to the president's schedule that he can't trust. So, you know, there are people who are obviously are out to get him and I think that that once again is problematic for the whole country.
And then when you look at what the pundits are saying they have no idea. All they're doing is parading their Trump derangement syndrome. They don't know what goes on. They don't know enough about the scheduling process to know what they don't know, which is that he could be on the phone. He could be doing this that aren't on the schedule.
KURTZ: Yes.
SEXTON: But they just look an opportunity to trash the president because that's what their viewers want to see. I think it's ignorant.
KURTZ: Jessica Tarlov, how can liberal pundits say Trump is wrecking the country and he's a threat to western civilization but at the same time he doesn't -- he sits around and doesn't do much.
TARLOV: He's very powerful when he's at rest, I don't know. I think that people did take this too far. I think that the president does have an issue with people in his orbit and not being able to trust them. And this is one that we've seen consistently since he entered office at all levels and in all departments.
Hopefully he can get some better people or people who are more interested in working for him and for the betterment of the country in there.
KURTZ: Yes.
TARLOV: But, yes, it was just a bit of fun to say and see when he is live tweeting cable news and he actually is just sitting there watching cable news.
KURTZ: I don't the average American cares how many meetings he was. But there was another off-the-record lunch with network anchors this week and there was one a few weeks ago that one leaked, this one leak and the president was reported to have said off-there-record that he called Joe Biden dumb. He called Chuck Schumer a nasty SOB. He criticized the late John McCain.
Was this a betrayal by somebody in that room who agreed to the off-the- record ground rules?
SEXTON: It absolutely was but it serves two important purposes for the president. One, is that it shows once again that journalists are willing to discard the ethics that they pretend to care about when it comes to this president. We've seen that time and time again.
And I think it's good because the American people now we're never getting the old media back if there's this nonpartisan neutral national political press corps. That's a joke and that's never coming back. So that's a good thing.
And the other thing is he gets to say stuff that I think the president really wants to say and it gets out there, and it's like it's not his fault but we get to hear it anyway.
KURTZ: You anticipated my question to Jessica, which is, first of all, I don't have any problem with the New York Times reporting this but whoever was in the room, obviously somebody did violate that agreement.
But the president having been (Inaudible) once in off-the-record launch with anchors I suspect that he's not all that upset and indeed suspected that this might have gotten out.
TARLOV: Yes, I don't think so. I mean, these were just iterations of things that he has already said publicly. He's been feuding with the McCain family for years. We know it's crying Chuck and he has nicknames for everybody. So, yes, it wasn't new information. His base loves it. I see on twitter all the time.
(CROSSTALK)
KURTZ: But Jessica, it came -- it came a few hours before he gave this speech to the country and to the Congress about unity and bipartisanship.
TARLOV: Yes. But I was listening to your earlier panel about it and what Mo Elleithee was saying and no one believe that that was really genuine. I mean, a couple days later we have his attacks on Elizabeth Warren and, you know, talking about the trail of tears.
And this president calling for unity and saying that we should get past revenge politics. No one is buying it even the people in his own orbit. And I understand that, you know, he got his applause lines for that --
KURTZ: Yes. All right.
TARLOV: -- but that wasn't going to last.
KURTZ: Just briefly, Buck. The president it's a two-way street. I mean, Democrats beat up on him every single day.
SEXTON: Yes, absolutely. The president is keeping in place all of his rights to fight back. And I think that what you see here is the president. I think his outreach isn't heard. He just realizes that the other side is not going to meet him half way and he's not going to put his fire away until they do.
KURTZ: Well, maybe he was just having a really good time talking to the anchors who I'm sure he loves so much.
All right. Bob Sexton, Jessica Tarlov in New York, thanks so much.
TARLOV: Thanks a lot.
KURTZ: And that is it for this edition of Media Buzz. I'm Howard Kurtz. Hey, check out my new podcast Media Buzz Meter. We pick around the day's buzziest story the most important and the most fascinating. You can subscribe at Apple iTunes, Google play or Foxnewspodcast.com.
We hope you like our Facebook page. We post my daily columns there and original video. And I'm sure you're already coming at me on Twitter at Howard Kurtz. You like to continue with our conversation there. A lot to pack into the show. We'll be back here next Sunday at 11 Eastern. We'll see you them with the latest Buzz.
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