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Sen. Kennedy: Kamala is smart, personable, and liberal
Published August 12, 2020
This is a rush transcript from “Your World with Neil Cavuto," August 13, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
NEIL CAVUTO, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: All right, Bill, I think you have got it just right. It is surreal. It is not your typical introduction of a ticket that wants to get control of the White House, but it will be, well, in this age of COVID-19, the best they can do.
The vice president, the former vice president of the United States, the one who wants to be the next vice president of the United States are due to jointly introduce themselves to the American people.
The president will be watching. We will be watching. In fact, everyone is watching right now just to see this all play out, a historic day.
Welcome, everybody. I'm Neil Cavuto, and this is YOUR WORLD.
A lot of the attention, obviously, in a day and age where a lot of people cannot gather, so it will be a lot a little different than what we're used to, a lot of pomp and pageantry and crowds that, as Chad Pergram was just telling Bill Hemmer, are virtually nonexistent in this new virtual world we call the coronavirus world.
They will be addressing the public in about a half-an-hour.
In the meantime, Jacqui Heinrich on what's at stake, as these two get ready to, I guess, reintroduce themselves, right?
JACQUI HEINRICH, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hey there, Neil.
Well, the Biden campaign brought in close to $50,000 a minute in the four hours after Senator Kamala Harris was announced as the running mate, total of about $10.8 million. And that comes close to the campaign fund-raising record for a single event. That was $11 million back in June, when former President Barack Obama and Biden hosted a virtual event.
So, this, today, they hope will bring in some money. Harris has some good fund-raising power. During the V.P. search, she brought in the most of any V.P. contender at more than $5 million, according to Politico. Only Elizabeth Warren brought in more at $7.7 million.
And donors who backed Harris' 2020 presidential campaign have reportedly already given $19 million to Biden, accounting for 7 percent of his campaign's fund-raising, according to one report.
So the hope here is, they can make up the $25 million, the Trump campaign and RNC outraised Biden by in July. And despite past polling indicating Harris doesn't excite black voters, her recent numbers are up. A Georgetown University poll showed her favorability with black voters is it 64 percent and 43 percent overall, so that's up eight points from last October.
And another V.P. finalist, former Obama National Security Adviser Susan Rice, said Harris' campaign record shows that she will bring success to the ticket.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUSAN RICE, FORMER U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Look, Kamala Harris is tested. She's won in the largest state in the union at statewide level three times. She's a sitting U.S. senator. She sits on the Intelligence Committee, on the Judiciary Committee. She's been a leader in the Senate on issues of criminal justice and many other issues that are so important to the American people.
And she's going to be a tremendous vice president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEINRICH: So, today's event will be the first time we see Biden and Harris together for months. We know that Biden offered Harris that historic place on the ticket over a video call.
And he interviewed 11 candidates in the last 10 days of the search, but it's unclear just how many of those candidates he interviewed in person. So, there's a small crowd here waiting to get a glimpse of the Democratic ticket appearing together for the first time in a long time -- Neil.
CAVUTO: Jacqui Heinrich, thank you very much.
So, a little bit more than 25 minutes away from that big event.
Reaction on how the White House is taking all this in, busy on other matters, but not amiss on these political matters.
John Roberts with the latest from Pennsylvania Avenue -- John.
JOHN ROBERTS, FOX NEWS CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And good afternoon to you, Neil.
And the president of the United States and his campaign continue to hammer Kamala Harris, the new running mate. His campaign just released an ad that really focuses on her record this time, but the president suggesting that he was very surprised that Kamala Harris was chosen as the running mate because not only was she mean to Joe Biden during the primary campaign, but also she flamed out before any votes were cast.
Here is what the president said about her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: She's very big into raising taxes. She wants to slash funds for our military at a level that nobody's - - can even believe.
She is against fracking. Fracking is -- she's against petroleum products. I mean, how do you do that and go into Pennsylvania or Ohio or Oklahoma or the great state of Texas?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: That is all part of the attack strategy of painting her as beholden to the radical left-wing.
Now, Karl Rove, appearing on "Hannity" last night, had some advice for the president and the president's campaign, saying, look, it may be attractive right now to attack Kamala Harris. And, as vice presidential running mates are always kind of hired to be the attack dog, while the candidate himself or herself floats above the fray, do not get into the weeds with Kamala Harris, keep the eye on the prize. That is Joe Biden. If she attacks you, you attack him.
So, some advice from Karl Rove there.
The president also this afternoon meeting parents -- meeting with parents, teachers and other educators on how to get children back into schools. As part of that, the idea of distance learning or remote learning came up. The head of the Education and Governance Program at Harvard suggesting that remote learning is not where it should be in terms of the ability to be able to keep kids engaged and actually educate them, which led the president to quip about Joe Biden.
Listen here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have learned through this COVID crisis that we haven't got digital learning to the point where you can really engage young people.
TRUMP: So, if you're a presidential candidate and you're sitting in a basement, and you're looking at a computer, that's not a good thing?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: And we're likely going to hear more from the president at 5:30 this afternoon, as well as on coronavirus.
And, Neil, just a little bit of news that's popped in the last little while on negotiations, or the lack thereof, between the White House and Democrats in Congress on a coronavirus relief bill.
Apparently, Steven Mnuchin, the Treasury secretary, made an overture earlier today to Nancy Pelosi to say, hey, maybe we should talk more about this. Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer basically threw him under the bus after that in a statement, saying that an overture was made. "He made it clear from his televised comments earlier today that the White House is not budging from their position. Democrats have compromised repeatedly. We have made it clear to the administration we're willing to resume negotiations once they start to take this process seriously."
An administration source told me moments ago that statement is -- quote -- "B.S." and that the administration will have something to say about it very soon -- Neil.
CAVUTO: I also wonder what Nancy Pelosi was saying, people are going to die if these stimulus talks drag into September. That's not exactly a positive negotiating style here.
But where is this all going?
ROBERTS: Well, part of the problem for the Democrats is that the president has got these executive -- this executive order and these executive memoranda that, according to the Office of Management and Budget and Treasury, are going to take effect soon.
And those $400 unemployment insurance enhancement paychecks should start going out within a couple of weeks. We don't know exactly what the president can do about evictions. And he can choose not to collect payroll taxes. The White House suggests it's got the same authority to not collect payroll taxes as it did to push back the tax filing deadline from April 15 to July 15.
So, no question there's going to be some court challenges to this. But, at the moment, the person president is the one who's got something out there that's in the works in terms of getting money into the hands of people who need it.
So the Democrats are coming under increasing pressure to either do something or suffer the political consequences of not compromising to the degree that they need to with the White House to get something done for the American people -- Neil.
CAVUTO: All right, John Roberts, thank you, John, at the White House here.
A real quick peek before we get to my next guest of the market day today. The Dow continued to sprint along. So if it's worried about the prospect of politics and disarray and stimulus looking clumsy and more cases popping up in some key states across the country of the coronavirus, it had a funny way of showing it.
The S&P was in record territory pretty much a good chunk of the day. Just fell under a record. But it has essentially recouped about 50 percent from the low levels we had in March, ditto Dow, that's about 5 percent away from a record of, the Nasdaq story unto itself, buoyed by technology in and out of records almost every other day.
So, we're following that.
We're also following this big event that's about 20 minutes away, an African-American woman being featured on a presidential ticket, and the impact of that with Joe Biden, coming up, again, in about 20 minutes.
I have got Bret Baier with us, Dana Perino, and Martha MacCallum.
Guys, I want to thank you all for helping out and joining us today.
Bret, to you first, and the impact of this, because it is a little surreal, historic though it might be, the way it's being done, in this age of coronavirus, where you can't have a lot of people there literally in person to witness it.
It's almost like one of those baseball games with no one in the stands.
(LAUGHTER)
BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Welcome to campaign 2020.
And I think we're going to -- this is our reality, and we're getting ready for another week of conventions, another two weeks in a row, which will be surreal as well.
I think that this event today is about a couple of things. One is showing Joe Biden and Kamala Harris on the same stage, that they're in the same -- they have chemistry between the two of them.
I think that you're going to hear a lot about attacking Donald Trump from both of them, because I think the Biden campaign will likely dispatch Kamala Harris to do that time and time again. And she has proven that she's good at that.
And I think that they're going to come together and start to weave what a policy pitch looks like ahead of the convention. I expect that what's going to happen in the speech at the bottom of the hour.
CAVUTO: Martha, already, the White House has branded sort of a label that it hopes will stick with Kamala Harris, in that she's a phony, and everything will be around that theme that you can't trust her, her positions change.
But couldn't that boomerang on them?
MARTHA MACCALLUM, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: You know, it could.
I guess, to a certain extent, they will want to keep their focus on Joe Biden. But I do think that this is an unusual situation. You have a candidate who -- in Joe Biden, who would be 78 years old when he takes office if he wins in November.
And although it has never been put out there specifically, there's been a lot of discussion around the edges of whether or not there would be a second term. And, in some cases, I saw a poll recently that said that 59 percent of the respondents of that poll believe that he wouldn't finish the first term.
So you got to believe that people are looking at Kamala Harris in a slightly different light, given all of those facts that surround this. And Joe Biden himself has said that he wanted somebody who could take over if need be.
So, I do think that, in that vein, there's a little bit of a different tinge to this pick, and the way that people will approach it and the way that the White House will go after it.
I doubt that -- I wouldn't look to President Trump to sort of sit on his hands on this. I think he's going to go after her, the way he goes after any opposition. And I doubt that he's going to keep himself -- to limit himself from going after the vice president in this case.
CAVUTO: Yes, I think you're probably right about that.
But he got a warning, Dana Perino, about maybe going too far in that regard from Karl Rove, who more or less said -- I'm paraphrasing here -- you might not want to punch down. I mean, focus on Joe Biden, pay less attention to what Kamala Harris is saying about you.
But he can be sort of drawn into the debate. And they could be counterproductive, right?
DANA PERINO, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Yes, I'm not sure -- President Trump is not a shrinking violet in any way.
So, if -- you know that because of the way she is able to parry with opponents, she is going to be coming after him. And I think that -- I think that Kamala Harris is going to be an attack dog for the Democrats against the Trump/Pence ticket.
And so, as soon as she starts to do that, you can bet he will not take Karl Rove's advice, and he will punch back, as we know that he does.
One thing I'm interested to see in this event that's coming up is, when you are in communications for a ticket like this, you look for moments where you might be able to have a fresh start or turn the page, change the narrative. And, of course, we're in coronavirus time. So this looks different.
We don't know how they're going to campaign together. So that's different. But I also think that you will see, I think, her -- there will be a connection there. I just have a feeling that you're going to see a real respect. And you even kind of saw it on the call when he said, are you ready to go to work? And she has that moment.
And I think you will probably see a little bit more of that before the attacks get really down in the mud as the campaign goes on.
CAVUTO: You know, we're also watching, outside the Biden home, it looks like he is now en route to the venue, the school there, quite a few SUVs there. We have indications that Kamala Harris has separately made her way or is making her way there.
You know, Bret Baier, we assign a great deal of importance to the way things look and the drama and the historic presence and the moment.
I'm just wondering, for this Democratic ticket, people are not only going to listen to what they say, but the vibes they seem to be getting. And there was a time I could remember when John McCain and Sarah Palin were seen together for the first time, that some read into, is there some friction here? It was an outside-the-box choice.
Here, it's a little different, I grant you, but what are you hearing about how they personally get along? They did have some tension in debates. Obviously, Joe Biden held no grudge about that. And there may be something to be said of that, but that how people will look at this even on a subliminal level.
BAIER: Well, that's what I was saying, chemistry, at the beginning. I think that -- the early debate and the back-and-forth was mended in debates after that.
And after she endorsed, she spoke out for Joe Biden. You saw some of that chumminess on that Zoom call, where he told her he was -- she was the pick.
Joe Biden said that he wanted to pick a running mate who was he was simpatico with, but who also possessed different attributes than he had. With this pick, he does that. And it's obviously historic. It's the first woman of color on a presidential ticket. That, in itself, is exciting, especially for the Democratic Party, but across the board.
And then you have this kind of background of being the top cop in California, which is just an interesting play in the current environment. And how that plays in the progressive side of the Democratic Party, I think, will be part of this election.
CAVUTO: You know, Martha, much has been said. This is the fourth time a woman has appeared in a presidential ticket. Of course, four years ago, Hillary Clinton was at the top of that ticket.
But, in all instances, the prior three instances, that ticket went on to defeat. Now, of course, can't blame that on the female on the ticket. But there is this sense that there will be a different way we look at a female candidate.
And others have pointed out to me through the course of the day, it's not that this country is against adding a female president. We have plenty of female senators and congressmen and governors, all of that, but we just haven't found the right one yet.
Democrats are obviously going to position Kamala Harris as that right one, certainly the right one not to hurt the ticket and be a good vice president, and to get the scrutiny she possibly could get as a future president. Your thoughts?
MACCALLUM: Well, obviously, it would be historic if she were to be elected the first female vice president of the United States.
But I also think that we have to be careful. I don't think that voters necessarily check those boxes in the way that maybe pundits like to think they do. I think that people vote for those who align with their values, those align with their principles, those whose policies that they like.
And I think, in the end, that that's the most important thing. And I think, when those things come together with someone who embodies that and happens to be a woman, then that woman is going to be the first vice president or first president, who happens to be a woman.
But I just -- I see it across the board, with black voters, with Latino voters, with women voters over and over again, that they are breaking open those boxes and those silos that people like to put them in, in terms of what matters to them.
Everybody cares about the economy. The economy is in very, very rough shape right now. And I think they're going to look for a candidate who they think can fix it, regardless of their gender.
CAVUTO: Dana Perino, much is said right now about this ticket. And they're -- obviously, the wind at the back, leading in the polls. Those are ephemeral. As you remind me, they can be fleeting.
But they have got that going for them. But a lot of that is because the former vice president has, you know, been keeping his distance, limiting the number of interviews, limiting exchanges with reporters.
Do you think Kamala Harris is going to fill that role, in other words, be the more aggressive spokesperson in this duo, and the one that will engage interviews and all of that? And is that enough?
PERINO: So it's been -- I have been thinking a lot about this, because I feel like the Biden team strategy to have him hold back, to not do a lot of interviews has served them well.
When he has done interviews, especially -- like, if you look at the one last week, he ends up with another gaffe. And then it's a whole media cycle of having to issue a retraction or apology of sort, correct the record, maybe do another interview on top of that to try to fix things and patch it up.
But I have started to think that it's just not sustainable to have someone who wants to be the president of the United States not be out there a little bit more. I know that we have coronavirus, but we also know that he and his wife had been safe. They have -- we know a little bit better how this disease is spread, so they could make some accommodations to make sure that he is safe.
But I really feel like he has to get out there a little bit more.
Yes, I think they will have her do some. She is -- she's quite good as a public speaker. And I think that they will have her do a little bit more, but two things.
One, the vice presidential choice, we talk -- we were anticipating it. We're excited about it. We're going to talk about it for a few days. But when Americans go to vote, they don't vote for just the vice president. This is a contest between Donald Trump's vision for America and Joe Biden's vision for America.
Pence and Harris are in supporting roles here. Their debate will be interesting. And, of course, everyone's going to watch that. But you're not voting for the vice presidential choice. So that goes away in just a little bit, unless she is out there a lot more.
And when she gets out there, it's not just going to be about her being the first, even though that's historic and that's energizing for some voters. It's going to be about, you said this about fracking. You said this about private health insurance. What about Medicare for all? I'm curious what you meant when you said that this woman shouldn't serve on the Supreme Court or the appeals court because she had been a part of the Knights of Columbus.
What did you mean by this or that? And then it's going to be about her record. And that was when you're going to see if she's going to be able to sustain this. They will get a little bit of a bump out of this announcement. But can she sustain that and help the ticket?
That, I think, really remains to be seen.
CAVUTO: In other words, keep it to the issues. There's a concept, regardless of the gender of the candidate in question.
Guys, thank you very much. I hope to be able to go back to you in a little bit.
In the meantime, I have Al Green joining us here, the Democratic Texas congressman.
Congressman, always good to have you.
I'm wondering if we are here today, Congressman, because of this letter written by 100 African-American leaders, business and otherwise, who strongly, strongly advocated for an African-American woman to join Joe Biden on that ticket, and essentially saying, you're going to lose if you don't. And so he did.
What do you think?
REP. AL GREEN (D-TX): Well, thank you for having me on, Mr. Cavuto. It's always an honor to be with you. I hope your time off was enjoyable.
I think that Mr. Biden, Vice President Biden, has demonstrated that he is a person who thinks for himself. I think he appreciates input, but he makes the final decision.
And I think a good many people cast their thoughts in his direction. But I think that he synthesized, and he eventually decided that this was the thing to do.
And, by the way, if I just may say this, it really is a special day for people like me to see this happening, a woman of African ancestry who is also multiethnic. This is something very special for all of us in this country.
Whether we agree with them or not, whether they win or not, it is special for this country. We have taken a quantum leap forward today, and I greatly appreciate seeing it happen.
CAVUTO: Congressman, if he had selected a white woman, and not an African- American, would you feel the same way?
GREEN: I believe that any woman is going to be a plus in this environment.
It's time for us to show women that we appreciate all that they have done to make America great. Women have been in the shadows for too long, and the times are changing. The inescapable winds of change are blowing across this country.
We're seeing it in the House of Representatives, where there's a turnover taking place. And it's time for women to receive the just desserts that they have earned. Let them apply these opportunities, just as men have.
I support what's being done completely.
CAVUTO: All right, Congressman, thank you very, very much. Good catching up with you.
I want to bring Senator John Kennedy, Republican of Louisiana, into this.
As you can see, the Biden motorcade as has arrived at this venue, school venue here, to introduce his running mate. And, as we have been discussing, it will be a little surreal here, not your typical fanfare, pageantry, and certainly crowds normally associated with the introduction of a presidential ticket, the COVID-19 world in which we live.
Senator, what do you think. You have worked with her, Kamala Harris, on this -- on this ticket now. The White House has already said she's the most liberal member of the Senate. I mean, others disagree with saying the most liberal, but your thoughts on hear?
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): Can you hear me, Neil?
CAVUTO: Yes, I can, Senator.
KENNEDY: We have -- I'm in Louisiana. We had a little bit of an electrical problem there.
First, Kamala is my colleague, so I want to -- I want to congratulate her. I think she is -- she's very personable. She's very smart. She's very aggressive. And she's very liberal.
I think of Kamala, I would say -- I would describe her as Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez, but smarter and without the bartending experience. She will be a very formidable candidate.
CAVUTO: I'm wondering how this ticket jibes on issues on which they have disagreed in the past. Wouldn't be the first time that's happened.
Famously, many hearken back to George Bush Sr., who had once called Ronald Reagan's tax cut plans voodoo economics. We know that politics makes strange bedfellows, and bygones can indeed be bygones.
But I'm wondering, in this case, they do seem largely in simpatico on issues like providing health care for all, rejiggering the Affordable Care Act, maybe raising taxes on companies, not quite the progressive tax increases that some in the party espouse, like Bernie Sanders and some of the others, Elizabeth Warren.
So, in that crowd, they like to say they are a moderating influence. Do you see this ticket as a moderating influence over what could have been in that party nomination?
KENNEDY: No.
Vice President Biden has promised to be the motion liberal president in history if he's elected. And toward that end, I think he picked the right running mate, because Senator Harris is very, very, very liberal.
I think they represent the new Democratic Party, which I think has clearly moved to the left. I don't think that's particularly a news flash for anyone. I think they both believe we're one tax increase away from prosperity. And they will massively raise taxes.
I think they're very -- both very pro-abortion. They think the border is a nuisance. I think, in terms of our -- of our -- our enemies across the world, they think we need to be more understanding. I don't think they believe that weakness invites the wolves, as I do. I think what you see is what you're going to get if they're elected.
Now, having said all that, people don't -- people vote for president because of who the nominee is. They don't vote for president because of the vice president. So I don't want to overstate this. But I would not consider Senator Harris to be a moderating influence.
That's not a criticism. This is American, and you can believe what you want. But Kamala is very liberal.
CAVUTO: Senator, I talked earlier today on FOX Business, which, if you don't get, sir, you should demand, but I think you already get it.
He was telling me, the former San Francisco mayor who dated Kamala Harris for a while, he urged her not, some days back, to take the vice presidency, if it were offered to her, because he's convinced there could be a sort of a house of cards falling here, through no fault of Joe Biden or whoever the vice president ultimately would be, because things could start cascading swiftly, and you would be associated with a single-term presidency that was going up in flames.
He didn't say in flames, that things would be problematic. He thought, if she were angling for attorney general, that might be a stronger -- a stronger push.
But his concerns about these next four years, do you share those?
KENNEDY: Well, first, no disrespect, but I think that's nonsense.
These sorts of opportunities don't come along very often. Sometimes, they don't come along at all. And you either -- it's never a perfect time. You either seize them or you don't.
And I think Senator Harris wanted to be the nominee. I think she worked hard to be the vice presidential nominee. And she grabbed it. And I don't - - I don't blame her for doing that.
Are the next four years going to be tough? Yes. I mean, look around. We're in the middle of a pandemic. We have probably done permanent damage to our economy. I have never seen racial strife as bad as it is and -- at this particular moment.
We have countries that hate us, China, Russia, North Korea, Iran. we will get through it, because we're Americans. But it's going to be a challenging four years, whoever the president is.
CAVUTO: Senator Kennedy, thank you very, very much, sir.
We will be watching this very, very closely.
The presidential and vice presidential candidates of the Democratic Party for 2020 are minutes away from addressing the American people.
Ahead of that, Chris Wallace of "FOX News Sunday."
Chris, your thoughts on the enormity of this moment. We keep talking about this is the first African-American woman on a ticket. And we get that. And we know this is coming at a time when this ticket so far enjoys a lead in the polls. As I think you have indicated many times, those polls can be fleeting, but they are what they are.
Does this ticket now complete, strengthen those numbers? There's always a bump up right after an event like this, no doubt, and then it's tested through the whole convention season and into the fall.
What do you think?
CHRIS WALLACE, HOST, "FOX NEWS SUNDAY": Well, I think that it will probably get a little bit of a bump now, add some excitement, some vitality to the ticket.
And, lord knows, the Biden campaign, while successful and leading, has not been a generator of huge energy. It's not been a fireball at this point. I think Kamala Harris will add that.
But let's be real here. I don't mean to dampen the event we're about to see. Kamala Harris will get some attention now. She will get attention next week at the convention, and she will get attention during the debate in October with Mike Pence.
But the vice presidential candidate is the vice presidential candidate. We have seen some very notable ones, some kind of more run-of-the-mill ones. And in the end, it ends up being a race, as it should be, between the two people at the top of the ticket.
This will -- this campaign is going to focus on Donald Trump and Joe Biden. And Kamala Harris will have a moment -- her moment in the sun, and it will pass.
CAVUTO: Do you think, Chris, I mean, the vice president has played it almost too safe, the former vice president, I should say?
He avoids interviews for the most part. When he does come out of this compound, it's for a brief exchange with the reporters, make a policy statement, go back in. And I get that. You maybe want to run out the clock. If yourself leading in the polls, you don't want to do anything to risk that.
Maybe it's like a political version of rope-a-dope, I don't know, but that it variably can boomerang on the candidate what tries that, at least, in the past, when we have seen that.
And I'm just wondering if it will play out the same here, or is the role of Kamala Harris to be that media figure, to go on the Chris Wallace shows, to go on and parry these questions, when, in fact, it should be Joe Biden.
Your thoughts?
WALLACE: Well, you know, I -- on the one hand, you can't criticize the Biden campaign for the way they're handling it, given the fact that they're leading by seven to eight points nationally and leading by a smaller margin, but still significant, outside the error of margin -- the margin of error, in all the battle states, the key swing states.
CAVUTO: Right.
WALLACE: Having said that, I think that the summer, and particularly with the coronavirus, he's been able to get away with that.
I'm not sure he's going to be able to get away with that after the convention, as we get to Labor Day and the fall campaign. Obviously, he will be on the stage, the debate stage, with President Trump three times.
But I don't think you can do it through September and October that you can continue this low profile, even in a pandemic. I think the vice president is going to have to come out more.
As far as Kamala Harris coming on "FOX News Sunday," I would be happy to for her to come on. It would be the first time she has ever appeared on our show. She kind of boycotted FOX, I think, almost entirely during the entire primary season.
CAVUTO: Right.
WALLACE: But, having said that, again, the vice presidential nominee is not the presidential nominee. And there's only so much that she can do. She can't really replace him, or -- she can be a spokesperson.
One of the interesting things -- and I'm going to be looking for this today -- you know, traditionally, Neil, the vice presidential candidate has been the hatchet man, or, in this case, the hatchet woman.
CAVUTO: Right. Right.
WALLACE: You think back to Bob Dole running with Jerry Ford in 1976 and talking about Democrat wars. I looked at that video again today.
And, usually, the presidential candidate rises above, and it's the vice presidential candidate who does some of the dirty work in attacking the other ticket.
Kamala Harris -- and this is no slight on her -- would be uniquely suited to that role, because she was an effective prosecutor. We saw what she did in the debate with Joe Biden about busing. We saw what she did in some of the Senate Judiciary Committee hearings with people like Bill Barr, and Judge -- then Judge Brett Kavanaugh, now Justice Brett Kavanaugh.
So she's pretty good at that. But it'll be interesting to see the degree to which she takes on the attack dog role, the hatchet woman role, if you will, and lets Joe Biden float above it.
But in terms of public profile, Biden's got to earn this himself. He can't just stay in the basement for the next two months.
CAVUTO: Yes, you're probably right about that.
I'm curious too. These things also judged on style. We can talk about substance. We can talk about people who listened to the Kennedy-Nixon debates on the radio and thought Nixon won. Those who watched them on TV thought JFK won.
And this is all political lore over the ages. But I'm wondering here. Much has been said that, when Joe Biden does pop out of his house and all, he sometimes has these torturous moments, where it takes a long time for him to get to the point. Who am I to criticize?
When you get older, Chris, I mean, you're lucky if you remember the breakfast you had that day. So, I'm not going to judge that.
But having said it, that this could be an opportunity for Donald Trump to pounce on that, to say, this guy isn't fast on his feet. It will be judged not on who's right or wrong on the issues, but how they seem to comport themselves, carry themselves, that that might matter more than we think.
Your thoughts?
WALLACE: Well, Donald Trump has been doing that for months. He's been saying that Joe Biden is out of it.
In my interview with him on "FOX News Sunday" a couple of weeks ago, he said...
CAVUTO: Right.
WALLACE: ... if Biden had been faced with an interview like the one that I did, he said he had been on the floor crying mommy.
That plays two ways. On the one hand, I think it does put more pressure on Biden when he does come out and do interviews, if he does it -- and I hope he will -- when he's on the debate stage, that he's -- people are going to be watching.
The flip side of it is that there's the danger that the president -- I know some Republicans feel this -- he and his campaign team have lowered expectations too greatly for Joe Biden, have driven them down, so that if Biden has a halfway decent performance, if he doesn't stumble all over himself, people will say, well, he didn't do too badly.
So, you could -- you can push that line of argument too far. But, in the end, look, we're all going to watch the two of them up on that stage together in the three debates, each one for 90 minutes. And we will get -- people will make up their own mind, do they think that Biden is up to the job or not?
And, frankly, the president says some curious things sometimes. Is the president up to the job or not?
CAVUTO: That's a good point.
I'm remembering -- it's funny. The Jimmy Carter-Ronald Reagan one-and-only debate in 1980, really, a couple of weeks before Election Day was expected to be, you know, Ronald Reagan would be this right-wing, shoot from the hip, say anything and everything, and that they could pounce on him.
And, of course, just the opposite occurred. He looked very presidential. And, in retrospect, I'm sure the Carter folks regretted that one and only debate.
But that's the kind of stuff that can happen if you have lowered expectations to the degree that, if just come out of there breathing, you have surprised everyone on the upside, right?
WALLACE: No, you're exactly right.
And I was fortunate enough to cover the Ronald Reagan campaign in the fall of 1980. And I was there for that debate. And there was that moment where Jimmy Carter was talking about -- and that was exactly the theme then of the Carter campaign, is that Reagan was kind of a right-wing kook.
And, at one point, Carter was attacking Reagan and saying he wanted to cut all the entitlements, Social Security, Medicare, all of that. And Reagan did that little dip. And he went, "There you go again."
(LAUGHTER)
WALLACE: And it just kind of erased -- he seemed like the absolute opposite of a right-wing look. He seemed avuncular and in control and good- humored, and kind of shaking his head at these crazy things that Jimmy Carter was saying, misrepresenting him.
And I remember that, the very next day, we went to -- I think it was the next day -- maybe I forget a little bit, but it was pretty close to that -- 40 years ago -- we went to a big event in Houston, and the crowd just was - - it was about two or three times as big as any crowd we'd had.
And it was hugely more enthusiastic. And I remember you could just feel that people's last concern about Ronald Reagan had ended. He had -- he had reassured them. He had satisfied that concern, and people made up their mind that day they were going to vote for Ronald Reagan for president.
And, of course, we know he won in a landslide. I think he won 44 states in 1980.
CAVUTO: Wow.
One last very quick question on this sort of historic importance of these exchanges when they get to the debate. And a lot of it has to do with likability. We always hear something about likability.
And I'm wondering if it's a little bit more of a twist on it now, Chris, in that there's been a great deal of drama and excitement and controversy around the Trump presidency -- whether you like the guy or not, there's never a dull day -- but that maybe Americans, in seeing a slow or more measured, pensive Joe Biden, whatever you want to say, in this day and age, that might be deemed not nearly the problem the president thinks it is.
WALLACE: Yes, I -- look, who knows what -- how people are going to make up their minds in this election.
I think an awful lot of it is going to be the facts on the ground. What is the situation with the coronavirus? I mean, we're dealing with such a huge crisis. This is -- the president who called himself a wartime president, in a sense, he is, because we're going through a domestic war, if you will, with facing the coronavirus, facing the economic fallout.
I heard you talking earlier the impact in terms of schools and how that's going to affect people. And so most important is going to be their perception: Who is the person I trust over the next six months, year, two years, whatever it takes, to get us out of this to handle that?
And part of it will be that. And part of it will be who you trust more over the next four years. And a lot of that -- better or worse, whether you like him or don't, people know what they get with Donald Trump. If you believe the polls, most people disapprove of his -- of his conduct in office. His approval numbers are underwater by some margin. I think they have been for his entire presidency.
But the question is, is it a referendum on Trump, in which case maybe Trump's in trouble, or is it a choice between Trump and Biden? And if Trump is able to convince people, you may not love me, but you can't really trust that guy or he's not up to the job, or he's a captive of the left, then a lot of people will say, you know what, I'm going to stick with what I know.
So, I mean, that's one of the keys is that -- not a matter of likability, but Biden is going to have to show that he's up to the job, both in terms of his mental acuity and also in terms of where he will take the country.
CAVUTO: Well put.
Chris Wallace, thank you very much, my friend. Always appreciate it, Chris Wallace, "FOX News Sunday."
Back to Martha MacCallum.
Martha, we -- I was thinking of Chris, because I believe he was the guy who broke the news that Ronald Reagan had selected George H.W. Bush to be his running mate. And that was interesting, because I know they were kicking around the idea of a Reagan/Ford ticket.
And there was some controversy, because, in the case of George Bush, he was the one who famously called Reagan's tax cut ideas voodoo economics. But Ronald Reagan held no grudge, obviously, moved on, knew that they would have the same policy, endorse the same policy, and the rest, as we know, is history.
Now, we know there are differences. And there have been some little tit- for-tats between a Kamala Harris and, of course, Joe Biden. He too didn't really hold a grudge or, in the end, thought that it mattered.
But people are going to keep bringing those differences up, aren't they?
MACCALLUM: Absolutely, Neil.
And you're going to keep seeing the video of Kamala Harris glancing at him across that debate stage and saying, I was in that first wave of segregation -- desegregation busing. That girl was me.
It was a very powerful moment for her. And it was at his expense. He looked into the camera, and there's a little bit of befuddlement during that moment. And he said, that's not accurate, the way you're characterizing me.
So, that video is not going to go away.
The other video that I think is also significant here is when she was asked about the women who had accused him of mis -- of inappropriate behavior towards them. And she said, I believe them, and they should be heard. So, that's another moment that's a little bit sticky and difficult to get past.
But as we saw on that piece of paper that Joe Biden had his notes scribbled on, he doesn't hold a grudge. And she said about those things -- she kind of laughed it off. She's said, look, that's politics.
CAVUTO: Right.
MACCALLUM: So this is going to be an important moment that we're about to witness, because you want to see how they relate to each other.
And I thought it was interesting how deferential she was in the phone call that we saw, the video call. She said: I'm going to work with you. I'm going to work for you. And I'm so honored to be part of this ticket.
So, I mean, I expect we're going to see more of that tone and less of what we saw on the debate stage when we finally see them come out here.
There was some speculation. I read Peter Doocy was reporting that there was a power issue in the area due to a storm.
CAVUTO: Right. Right.
MACCALLUM: So, I think that's why this is a little bit backed up, Neil.
CAVUTO: Yes, apparently, they have a generator just in case. The lights haven't flickered. But they could. So maybe they're dealing with that.
This is another issue -- and I don't mean to be trite about it and get a woman's perspective on it. That's insulting. But one of the things that's been brought up about Kamala Harris is, she's very ambitious, or she's very Type A personality.
We don't really say that about men. But it was again pounded, oh, no, no, no, look at her, and she's grabbing for this brass ring, as if it mattered whether she was a man or a woman.
I'm wondering how you think Republicans risk if they want to make that or try to bring it to that level. Not all have. And I think it was Bill Bennett who raised that issue, the ambitious thing. But others try to bring that up, as if it's different for a woman and to raise doubts about a woman.
What do you think of that?
MACCALLUM: Well, I think that every time something like that is said about her, you're going to hear that talking point brought up.
The president said that she was nasty during the campaign. Now, you can say that that's an inappropriate word, because it's because she's a woman. Or you can look back at some of those moments, and you can make your own judgment about whether or not you think she was nasty in that moment.
To me, Neil, the whole goal of equality between men and women and opportunity, I expect that we will see a woman president and a woman vice president. I'm surprised it hasn't happened by now. But all it tells me is that the American people have not come together to choose that person yet, based on their qualifications and their comfort level with them being president.
So, I think that she can give as good as it gets. And I think that she's a fighter. She's a strong woman and a very strong senator. And I don't think she's going to be a shrinking violet. I think that it's going to get pretty ugly at times in the course of this.
And I think we have to not fall back on those sort of easy things of, oh, he's attacking her because she's a woman. No, he's attacking her or she's attacking him because they're both in this race together.
CAVUTO: Female senators and congresswomen and governors, I think the day and age where you could say the American people are against the idea of a female president, I mean, belie the facts.
MACCALLUM: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
CAVUTO: We just maybe haven't found the right one.
MACCALLUM: Yes.
CAVUTO: Now, I am curious what you make of what's at stake for the two of them now, if they ever get past this power issue there.
(LAUGHTER)
CAVUTO: We look at them, how they look and appear together, as much as what they're saying to and about each other.
So, on some level, you want to see, do they like each other? Do they get along? There are some tickets where that's very, very obvious, some where there's a little friction, JFK and LBJ, but the political expediency of that one and delivering Texas for John F. Kennedy at the time, which was a tough battle, and he provided that.
We read maybe more than we should. But what are you going to be looking at?
MACCALLUM: Well, I think, to a certain extent, voters want to look at that package and that team and feel good about it.
I think one of the things that's interesting is how devoted President Trump has been to Mike Pence. I mean, every 15 minutes or every time there's an inflection point in this race, someone says, oh, you think they're going to dump Mike Pence and put someone else on the ticket?
And he has stood by him. And I expect that that's the way that's going to stay.
So, yes, I think that the family -- I think, probably today, everybody's Googling Kamala Harris' husband and her stepchildren and learning more about her, because they want to sort of see what she's like, besides being a senator.
And I think the same is true of what we have seen from the Biden family, which has come under -- some of them have come under quite a bit of scrutiny in this process. And I expect you're going to hear more about that as well. So it is a whole package. People look at that whole package when they assess whether or not they can envision these people in the White House and working together on a day-to-day basis.
And this is the first sort of snapshot that we're going to get of that when we see these two out there.
CAVUTO: When we discuss the implications for the markets and the economy on FOX Business, which, of course, you do get, Martha, and you're very familiar with.
MACCALLUM: Of course I do.
CAVUTO: So I don't have to get you to beg to get it.
But one of the things that comes up is, why are the markets so strong, in the face...
MACCALLUM: Yes.
CAVUTO: ... of a ticket that's leading in the polls that, at a minimum, is calling for a hike in taxes? Normally, that is counterintuitive and an anathema.
Some on Wall Street tell me it's because they don't think this ticket will end up winning. Others say that this is a more moderating duo than meets the eye, and that they would not do some of the crazy things that were espoused during the campaign, and that's why the markets have adjusted to anything.
I think it's a little too early. Maybe where the markets are in the fall might be a better metric on what to follow. But what do you think of that argument, that it wouldn't be the end of the world for your finances, as the president said, if these two were to win at all?
MACCALLUM: Well, a couple of things come to mind.
First is that it is surprising what we have seen the market do during the course of this economic destruction after the coronavirus. And I think everybody's surprised to see the levels that the market is at.
B, I think that, for this team, if Joe Biden and Kamala Harris take over and win in November, I think that an effort to raise people's taxes in the middle of this kind of economic environment is not going to go over well.
I think that's going to be -- it would put the brakes on any kind of regeneration of this economy. And I think that that would be a very, very tough sell. And I think that, if Wall Street thought that was what was coming right out of the gate from these two and this team, that that would cause problems for them.
I think, if Elizabeth Warren had been the pick, I think that Wall Street might have felt differently about this. But Kamala Harris, on the campaign trail, said that she wanted to take away health insurance from 180 million people in this country, that she wanted to give back those tax cuts.
So all of those things are going to be fair game. We're going to hear a lot about them during the debates. And I think that the economy once again is the central issue. There's a lot of stuff on the periphery. But that's what it's really all about right now. You have got 30 million Americans out of work in this country, very tough times, and more chapters to unfold in that, because we're still just learning which businesses are actually never coming back, which companies are actually never hiring back all the workers that they laid off.
That is the story that's going to unfold, I think, over the next coming months, Neil.
CAVUTO: No, I think you're right. I think you're right about all of that.
Martha, thank you very, very much.
And, as you accurately relayed here from Peter Doocy and elsewhere here, we're getting word that there were some power concerns there. The power went out. They hadn't seen any lights flickering. They have a backup generator. We don't know whether that is delaying this introduction to the American people of this presidential ticket.
Jacqui Heinrich outside this event in Wilmington with the latest.
Jacqui, what are you hearing?
HEINRICH: Hey, Neil.
Yes, it's unclear at this time what exactly we're waiting on. We know that the electricity problem hasn't caused too many problems so far in terms of the lights in there. And we know that I think most people are here. We're expecting spouses to be at the events tonight.
So, waiting on word from inside and what exactly the holdup is, but it's certainly going to be interesting to see Harris and Biden together. A lot of people here, a little crowd, trying to get a glimpse of the ticket and get a sense of their chemistry.
I mean, the last time we saw these two together was on the stage during the first Democratic debate. They had a bristly exchange. And it brings you back to that memory that Chris Dodd, former senator on the V.P. vetting committee, brought up that, are there going to be questions about Harris' loyalty to Biden, after they had that exchange?
What's their relationship going to be like? Is she going to be a loyal lieutenant to him? And we saw in her video where she accepted her spot on the ticket that she said she was ready to work with and for Joe Biden.
So, it'll be really interesting to see how they appear together and what their message sounds like. It's also going to be interesting to listen to who they're targeting in their first appearance together.
The question that has remained a little bit with his choice is, are progressives going to be happy with Kamala Harris as the running mate? She was criticized by progressives for her record as attorney general. Her plan didn't fully back Medicare for all, but left room for private health insurance. Some progressives likely wanted to see Elizabeth Warren get that spot.
And Republicans have pointed out that Harris' record as a senator certainly moved farther to the left. She's beyond Bernie Sanders territory. But, for the majority of her career, her ideology kind of tracked with Biden's. And the campaign has reminded people -- the Biden campaign has responded to this criticism, saying, well, just remember what the president said a couple of days ago, or maybe a week ago, that Kamala Harris would be a fine choice.
And we also remember that, as I reported last night, going back to Harris' run for A.G. and for the Senate, President Trump and Ivanka Trump donated to her reelection campaign when she was running for her reelection for A.G. And current Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin also donated to her Senate run in 2016.
So, progressives might not like that, that she has attracted Republican donors at some point in her career, and they might not trust her. So, it's going to be interesting to see what their message is together, who they're targeting for voters.
And are they going after moderates? Are they trying to share a message for moderates, independents, maybe even disenfranchised Trump supporters who took a chance on the president last time around, but this time maybe are looking at the Democrats?
Or are they going to be trying to represent that they have brought progressives under the tent in a way that progressives might want to hear, after seeing someone like Elizabeth Warren get passed over for this job. and were maybe hoping for someone a little bit more left-leaning, Neil?
CAVUTO: You know, and, Jacqui, we got the two-minute warning almost two minutes ago. So, they're going to be coming out there very, very soon.
I'm just wondering right now what your sense is -- here they are now. They're about to introduce themselves. I apologize, Jacqui.
Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, the 2020 Democratic presidential ticket, after a bit of a delay, now addressing the American people.
JOSEPH BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thanks for being here.
CAVUTO: Joe Biden.
BIDEN: I wish we were able to talk to the folks outside, but we're keeping our social distancing and playing by the rules.
Good afternoon, everyone.
To me and to Kamala, this is an exciting day. It's a great day for our campaign. And it's a great day for America, in my view.
Over the past several weeks, I have had the incredible privilege of meeting and spending a good deal of time with a group of talented women leaders, all of whom are qualified to be president.
With each one, the more I learned about them, the more I talked to them, the more impressed I was, even though I knew them before.
I want to thank each and every one of them for being part of this process. And I look forward to working with them as we rebuild this country, to get elected and, once we are elected, God willing.
I approached this with a seriousness of purpose and of mind, because this is a serious moment for our nation. We're at one of those inflection points, you have heard me say that before, in our history, a life-changing election for this nation.
And the choice -- the choice we make this November is going to decide the future of America for a very, very long time.
And I had a great choice, great opportunities. I had a great choice, but I have no doubt that I picked the right person to join me as the next vice president of the United States of America. And that's Senator Kamala Harris.
You know, and it seems Americans all across this nation, at least at the outset here, agree with me. Yesterday, we had our best grassroots fund- raising day of the campaign, more than double our previous record. And, in doing so, we set a single-day record for online political fund-raising.
And I think I know why. So, I hope -- I hope that you will join us as well, those of you who listen today. Go to https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__JoeBiden.com&d=DwICAg&c=cnx1hdOQtepEQkpermZGwQ&r=tgDLkJy54PfJyWJwul3dKe54qGxqO7b7d5vjo7RcZds&m=0c-5YNhM-7wJlV2i3-rFm2THlud4jugLHzt_aWiIPZU&s=HJSqj-mr4ZQHaIHMmcRppsio2MH78wE8B8284FJDHKY&e= today, $5, $10, whatever.
Kamala, as you all know, is smart, she's tough, she's experienced, she's a proven fighter for the backbone of this country, the middle class, and for all those who are struggling to get into the middle class.
Kamala knows how to govern. She knows how to make the hard calls. She's ready to do this job on day one. And we're both ready to get to work rebuilding this nation and building it better.
As attorney general of the largest state in the country, Kamala took on the big banks over mortgage fraud, and won, took on big oil when it wanted to pollute without consequences. She was a pioneer in marriage equality and tackled the gun lobby.
You know, we have all watched her in the United States Senate go toe to toe with Trump officials trying to hide the truth, asking the tough questions that needed to be asked, and not stopping until she got an answer. And when none was forthcoming, it was obvious what the answer was.
As a member of the Intelligence Committee and the Judiciary Committee, she's been the center -- in the middle of the most critical national security challenges our country faces, well aware, well aware of all the threats to this nation and ready to respond to them.
As a child of immigrants, she knows personally how immigrant families enrich our country, as well as the challenges of what it means to grow up black and Indian-American in the United States of America.
Her story is America's story, different from mine in many particulars, but also not so different in the essentials. She's worked hard. She's never backed down from a challenge. And she has earned each and every of the accolades and achievements that she has gained, many of them often in the face of obstacles that others put in her way, but never quit.
And this morning, all across the nation, little girls woke up, especially little black and brown girls, who so often feel overlooked and undervalued in their communities, but today, today, just maybe, they're seeing themselves for the first time in a new way, as the stuff of a president and vice presidents.
In her campaign in the primary, Kamala often talked about what she referred to as the 3:00 a.m. agenda, about moms and dads awake late at night in their kitchens, worried, scared, uncertain about how they were going to take care of their families, about how they were going to pay the bills, about how they were going to make it, simply make it.
Growing up in Scranton and Claymont, Delaware, I saw that struggle with my family as well. Kamala saw it with hers as well.
And millions of Americans are living that struggle as we speak, especially in this moment of crisis, especially with so many jobs lost.
Kamala and I both know that all folks are looking for, as my dad would say, is an even shot.
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