Published June 30, 2018
This is a rush transcript from "The Story," June 29, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MARTHA MACCALLUM, HOST: Hi there, Shannon. Thanks so much. So tonight, we take you live to Annapolis, Maryland where a vigil is about to get underway as a shaken community mourns the loss of these five people.
And we learn chilling new details about the killer as police confirm that he barricaded the building's back door shooting at least one victim as they tried to get out. We have also learned tonight that the newspaper's former executive director, says this was not wholly unexpected.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THOMAS MARQUARDT, FORMER EXECUTIVE EDITOR, CAPITAL GAZETTE: I took a photo of Mr. Ramos who I had never met. Brought to the front desk and said, be on -- be on a lookout for this guy. If he comes in, dial 911.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: The president's addressing the killings a short time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: This attack shocked the conscience of our nation and filled our hearts with grief. Journalists like all Americans should be free from the fear of being violently attacked while doing their job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Lea Gabrielle is live in Annapolis, Maryland where the vigil is getting underway tonight. Good evening, Lea.
LEA GABRIELLE, FOX NEWS CHANNEL CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Martha. A judge in Annapolis ordered 38-year-old Jarrus -- Jarrod Ramos to be held in jail on five counts of first-degree murder, one for each of the five victims.
Police say that he used a legally purchased pump-action shotgun to shoot out a glass entrance before going inside and killing four journalists and a sales assistant.
Earlier today, the state's district attorney describing the scene inside that newsroom.
WES ADAMS, STATE'S ATTORNEY, ANNE ARUNDEL COUNTY, MARYLAND: Mr. Ramos is alleged to have executed a brutal series of attacks on innocent victims. That evidence that suggested a coordinated attacks, the barricading of the back door, and the use of a tactical approach, and hunting down, and shooting the innocent victims in this case.
GABRIELLE: Police say Ramos had not been cooperating today as they were trying to get answers for why. But we do know he had a long-standing dispute with the Capital Gazette that started back in 2011. That's when a columnist brought about a criminal harassment case against Ramos. He later sued the columnist, and the editor, and publisher for defamation, but his case was dismissed.
The Capital says the former editor said, "I remember telling our attorneys this is a guy who is going to come and shoot us." Three editors, a reporter, and a sales assistant were killed in the Thursday afternoon rampage.
One of those was 65-year-old mother of four, Wendi Winters. Her daughter telling reporters today that she loved what she did. Listen.
WINTERS GEIMER, DAUGHTER OF ANNAPOLIS VICTIM: Know that she really liked what she did and who she worked with.
She loved her job, and she loved what she did, and she loved to tell stories. And this is far too soon to lose my mother.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GABRIELLE: Well, the community has been coming together here in Annapolis today to show their solidary. The paper itself showing its resilience by putting out a paper reporting on its own tragedy.
And Martha, there are a number of services, there are a number of vigils being held here in Annapolis tonight. One as you mentioned started right here by the Annapolis Mall just moments ago.
MACCALLUM: Lea, thank you very much. We're going to keep all of them in our minds this evening. What a -- what a tough time for all of those families.
The President as we mentioned, offered his support to the people of Annapolis earlier today. Shortly after that, this afternoon, he boarded Air Force One heading to their summer home in Bedminster, New Jersey this evening. Reports tonight, indicate that he is using this getaway to interview Supreme Court candidates. All as he celebrates the six-month anniversary of his historic tax cut plan.
Also, rumors are swirling about his chief of staff potentially making an exit. Here to talk about, wow, what a week for the Trump White House in so many ways, Anthony Scaramucci, former White House communications director and founder of SkyBridge Capital.
Where to begin? I mean that there is a lot that has happened this week.
ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: You know, my heart, your heart, and all of our hearts go out to the families been, it's just an unspeakable tragedy but same time, you have to admire the resilience of all of these people would actually put the paper out to. I mean, it's just an amazingly sad story but a lot of resilience there.
MACCALLUM: Yes. Indeed it is. And then, you know, there's been so much discussion about journalism, and about fake news. It was a Reuters editor who had to issue an apology because he made a horrible remark initially after -- you know, citing some blame for the president which is just awful.
I mean, before anybody even knew anything about the circumstances here, or so, I think that's kind of the world that we live in right now, unfortunately.
SCARAMUCCI: Oh, I mean, it's the world we live in but I also think we have to try to figure out how we're going to reduce these shootings. And so, I mean, it's not even a left or right this decision anymore, it's just what are the right or wrong policies to put in place to see if we can get a reduction in these shootings.
And so, you know for me it's obviously a mental health issue. If you look at the person and you look at what people were saying about the person, we just have to work on the signaling on this stuff and get it right. Because --
MACCALLUM: I mean -- I mean, when you have an editor who's given a picture to the security guy, there needs to be a way to draw a circle around that person and make sure that, that is -- that those red flags go up before something like this happens.
SCARAMUCCI: And politicizing it, Martha, is not going to help the situation. I'll bring in the president into the orbit of the thing is not fair to the president, it's also not fair to the situation. And so, I'm glad that guy walked it back.
MACCALLUM: Let's go to some of what happened this week. Obviously, news that a lot of people were not expecting. Judge -- Justice Anthony Kennedy stepping down from the bench. The president has now said that he's going to have his nominee ready by July 9, which is a week from Monday, it's a short time frame. He says he's got five people in mind, two of them are women. Do you know who he's going to pick?
SCARAMUCCI: Yes, I don't 100 percent know who he's going to pick. I know, he -- the family seems to be close to a few of these guys. So, we'll have to see what happens. But the president picked a great jurist last time. Justice Gorsuch is a -- is a phenomenal jurist. He'll pick a phenomenal jurist this time.
What I -- what I definitely think, people should just relax for a second and give him the opportunity to pick somebody before they start digging trenches again, you know. So, this sort of weird, you know. I was thinking about Justice Scalia, we're talking about him earlier today. He was 97-0, Justice Scalia was appointed to the Supreme Court.
And so we're in a situation now where it goes right down the partisan lines, you had to go into the nuclear option for this situation. But in the meantime, if you think about the quality of the people that the president is going to pick from an interview, these are all exceptional Americans, exceptional people. And so, I just hope we can just dial it back a little on the -- on the polemics if you will.
MACCALLUM: So, in terms of the White House, the chief of staff, yesterday he made comments. Basically, Kellyanne Conway came out. You know, we have no indication that John Kelly is considering leaving the White House. Tonight, it sounded like the president kind of opened that door a little bit to that possibility.
SCARAMUCCI: Well, listen, I think it's ultimately the -- you know, the President's choice, and so, obviously, if Chief of Staff Kelly wants to leave, he can leave voluntarily but it's going to be up to the two of them. We can say they're speculate about that. But I mean, you know, what I --
MACCALLUM: Some are saying Hope Hicks, might come back?
SCARAMUCCI: What I tell you, I'm not in love with, and I continue to say this, I'm not in love with the leaking. You know, the John Kelly deserves the opportunity to have that conversation with the president.
SCARAMUCCI: And it deserves to stay inside of that circle. And so, I just find it ironic that every time something super-sensitive is happening, one way or the other, it ends up dispersing from the White House and this sort of ridiculous anonymous way. So, I'm not totally in love with that, to be honest.
MACCALLUM: There's a lot of people there who like to talk, as you know.
SCARAMUCCI: Yes, yes, anonymously.
MACCALLUM: And that's what's happening here.
SCARAMUCCI: Anonymously, they run out, they get their cell phone out of the -- out of the locker, and they run outside. And they -- and they like chitter chattering, and it's sort of not fair.
And so, you know, I have had issues with General Kelly in the past. He's had issues, obviously, with me but I think he's owed the respect frankly, of having that conversation with the president. He's been a decorated veteran, he served this country well, and he should be able to leave gracefully.
MACCALLUM: All right, I want to play something for you. Because there's - - watch the contrast between what President Trump, said yesterday when he was at Foxconn in Wisconsin. And what some of his critics are saying about what they hope will happen to the economy. Watch this.
TRUMP: America is open for business more than it has ever been open for business. Made in the USA, it's all happening, and it's happening very, very quickly.
JON MEACHAM, AUTHOR, THE SOUL OF AMERICA: If a recession hits --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You think that's where he bottom falls out?
MECHAM: I think so.
BILL MAHER, HOST, "REAL TIME WITH BILL MAHER," HBO: I feel like the bottom has to fall out at some point. And by the way, I'm hoping for it because I think one way you get rid of Trump is a crashing economy.
MACCALLUM: Fabulous, right? Hoping for -- hoping for recession. Hoping for recession.
SCARAMUCCI: So, I mean this is all a part of the derangement sooner the people talk about, OK, this is same thing that got the Reuters editor in trouble. They just severely just like the president.
Some of it's more related to his style, it's really not related to the policies because I challenged, and I'm sure I'll get lit up on Twitter after I say this, but I challenge you to come up with one policy over the last 17 or 18 month that the president has promulgated. That he's led to a disruption in your life or a lower living standard, or some kind of disavow of your quality of life. And the answer is there hasn't been any.
So, obviously, the economy does fall that will be an issue for all politicians and will be issued for all companies in America. And that'll be a lot of pain. So, I really wish that Bill didn't say that. Having said that, the very good news is the policies have been fantastic. The stimulus has been fantastic as relates to the tax cuts that they were celebrating earlier today.
And I think, you're going to see maybe even a four and a half five percent print on GDP for the second quarter. And so the economist says SkyBridge think that we've got a very good accelerated quarterly growth going into the end of the year.
MACCALLUM: And let's play this from the president, in the interview that he did with Maria.
SCARAMUCCI: So, they'll be wrong about that too, Martha.
MACCALLUM: Just watch this, and you, a thought in it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because we've seen the impact to the economy. What do you want to see happen now? Does the economy need even more stimulus? Are you looking for a phase two tactics?
TRUMP: We're doing a phase two. We'll be doing it probably in October, maybe a little sooner than that, and it'll be more of a middle class. We did have a lot for the middle class but this will be even more aimed at the middle class.
One of the things we're thinking about is bringing the 21 percent down to 20. And then, for the most part, the rest of it would go right to the middle class. It's a great stimulus.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Which tax cut is he talking about there, 21 to 20?
SCARAMUCCI: Yes, that -- that's the corporate tax cut.
MACCALLUM: The corporate tax cut, 21 to 20.
SCARAMUCCI: He is at 21 now, he's talking about possibly bringing it down to 20, which means it probably will happen. But here's the great thing about him, and this will ultimately be his legacy.
He recognizes that he has to close the gap here in terms of income spread and helping middle-class families and lower-middle-class families on the campaign that was his pledge. And its policies like that that are free market-based in their orientation that are going to get that done more than any other policy. So, what happens from the left?
MACCALLUM: Do you think that's an offset for some of the trade issues if you lower corporate tax rates a little bit further, is that an incentive for companies like Harley-Davidson, for example, to maybe change their mind?
SCARAMUCCI: Yes, on the margin. But I think what's happening is they're jumping the gun on the president. They're miss sizing his negotiation strategy. And I think, he's asking them to be patient.
Those allies of ours and also the Chinese know that the trade situation is unbalanced. And they know that he's using that as a cudgel to those towers to bring it down.
And I would call on all corporations large and small to give the president a little bit of time to watch him work this thing the way he worked the North Korean situation. And so, for me, not by the end of the year, my guess is he's very close on NAFTA, he's very close on negotiating something with the E.U. And I think, it's going to be for good news for everybody.
MACCALLUM: It's going to be a big week for Mexico too. Big election there.
SCARAMUCCI: Happy fourth, by the way.
MACCALLUM: Thank you very much. Happy fourth to you. Good to see you, thanks for coming in.
SCARAMUCCI: Good to seeing you, too.
MACCALLUM: So, coming up next, a heated political battle already brewing over the next Supreme Court justice.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CORY BOOKER, D-N.J., SENATE FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: This is perhaps in both of our lifetime the biggest shift possible in the court. This could be a moment as Donald Trump has said, "Up and down I will put judges that will overturn ROE on the court.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Next, Jonathan Turley here on the brand new details of the president's plan to replace Justice Anthony Kennedy. And how far will some activists go to stop the president? Michael Moore suggesting that it might be time to put our bodies on the line.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL MOORE, DOCUMENTARY FILMMAKER: When you read the paper every day or you watch the news, do you ever cry? I mean, do you ever cheer up? Do you ever -- does this ever happened to you? This happens to me now, every day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: President Trump signaling in an interview that will air this weekend that he is not going to show his cards when it comes to a litmus test for his judge pick but the President telling reporters aboard Air Force One just a short while ago tonight that he does have a list of five people including two women who he is considering for the top -- for the nation's highest court. The President also saying today that he plans to name that nominee before he leaves for Europe on July the 10th so we do expect that we will hear something by July 9th. Here now Jonathan Turley, Constitutional Law Attorney, and Washington University -- George Washington University Law Professor. Good to see you tonight, sir. Big week.
JONATHAN TURLEY, LAW PROFESSOR, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY: Thanks, Martha. Yes.
MACCALLUM: So tell me what you think. First of all, he spoke with Maria Bartiromo, the President did, and she asked him you know, are you going to want to know from this potential justice where they stand on Roe v. Wade and whether or not they would overturn. And he said he didn't think that he would get specific about that in his discussions with the potential justices. What do you think about that?
TURLEY: Well, it's an element of circumspection and restraint which is reassuring in the President. He's often a guy who sort of plays poker with the cards faced outward and that can be a liability it has in the past. Here he's playing this very smart and not asking those type of litmus questions because if he does the witness will have to address that. The fact is there's lots of ways to figure out where someone is on an issue like Roe v. Wade. Many of the people on the list of 25 are very familiar to people in D.C. Many of them have come to conferences and their views are fairly well known so you don't have to ask the question. I think what the President also knows is that he promised to put two or more pro-life justices on the court. If this justice doesn't prove to be pro-life, it would -- it could come back to haunt him during the next presidential campaign and so I suspect -- I suspect this will be on his mind.
MACCALLUM: Yes, I suspect it will too. A headline in Politico, The Optics Do Matter. President Trump nudge to pick a woman for the Supreme Court. He has said that two of the five that he's considering our women. Is that important or not?
TURLEY: Well, I'm someone that has long criticized the selection of justices for the optics. I think they should be selected entirely on the basis of their intellectual contribution to the court. I testified at Neil Gorsuch at his confirmation hearing in the Senate and I testified in his favor because I believe that he's an intellectual the first order even if you disagree with his conclusions. That is, in fact, the model we should choose. It doesn't matter what sex or race or religion that person is. This is a court of nine. It is an honor to hold one of those seats and it shouldn't be given to you on optics.
MACCALLUM: It certainly is. It should be based on qualifications and the way that you approach the Constitution and whether or not that matches up with the way the person who's nominating you to the president, in this case, it feels about it. July 9th, I mean, that that's a quick turnaround. I mean, obviously, there's a lot of political pressure here to get moving on this.
TURLEY: Yes, this is a NASCAR pace. It is a very fast turnaround but look, the Republicans do not want to be Garland. I mean, they basically you know, invented that strategy. It worked very well for them. They're not going to hand it over to the Democrats. They're going to push a nominee through before the midterm elections. Now that means that there have to be careful because if you make a vetting mistake and you have to change horses, it doesn't give you a lot of time so that's why they're cutting this short.
MACCALLUM: Like the Harriet Miers example. Jonathan Turley, always good to see you, sir. Thank you so much.
TURLEY: Thank you.
MACCALLUM: Coming up tonight. Kim Jong-un gave his word that the remains of U.S. servicemen killed in Korea would be sent home. These families are elated but they are still waiting and they want to know what's happening. But first, Senator Kirsten Gillibrand isn't sure that none of her fellow Democrats will vote for the President's picked for the court because they didn't last time or did they? Our Friday group captain Tom Shillue and Ed Henry coming up next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MOORE: When you read the paper every day or you watch the news, do you ever cry? I mean, do you ever cheer up? Do you ever -- does this has ever happened to you these days?
STEPHEN COLBERT, COMEDIAN: Sure, of course.
MOORE: Right. It happens to me now every day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Sure of course. That was Michael Moore bemoaning the state of the country. He went on to say this about President Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MOORE: When are people going to get off the couch and when are we going to rise up? Trump is not going to leave. He plans to be reelected. He loves the term president for life. The only way that we're going to stop this is eventually we're all going to have to put our bodies on the line.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Wow, OK. Joining me now on that another hot topic say is my panel Tom Shillue host of "The Tom Shillue Radio Show" on Fox News Radio, Kat Timpf Fox News Contributor and our own Ed Henry, Chief National Correspondent. Tom, let me start with you. So he cries sometimes when he's watching the news. Well, you do too, right?
TOM SHILLUE, FOX NEWS RADIO HOST: I do, definitely.
MACCALLUM: You do sometimes cry.
SHILLUE: I'm always crying. But he's telling me to get off the couch. Michael Moore is telling me to get off the couch. It's kind of weird.
MACCALLUM: That's true.
SHILLUE: But he's -- he says --
MACCALLUM: And he's admitting he was sitting on the couch watching news crying.
SHILLUE: Yes, but he wants us to put our bodies on the line so Michael Moore, he wants bodies on the line, we need a wall. Am I the only one two or two together here?
ED HENRY, FOX NEWS CHANNEL CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I felt like I knew where you going.
MACCALLUM: There's a lot of images going through my head right now of Michael Moore on the couch putting his body on the line. Kat, what do you think?
KAT TIMPF, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: I think that if you are crying every day watching the news, then that is a you problem. That is not of the way things are going problem because I watch a lot of news and I manage to cry about other things rather than the news. I don't think we should be taking advice from somebody who is so irrationally emotional about nothing. Over and over again, a lot of these super anti-Trump people will say we need to rise up. This is awful. Everything's awful. It's the end of the world. And I keep waking up every morning with everything being kind of fine, sometimes even you know kind of nice. So I think that maybe he should take a bath, candles, relax. It could help me sometimes.
SHILLUE: Candles are good.
TIMPF: Candles, maybe you know, some fragrant because he's a little too high strong.
MACCALLUM: Yes, I think -- I think you're onto something there.
HENRY: I've been spending a lot of time, Martha, trying recently to touch with my emotions and it's been a long journey. I mean, what is going on in this country when people say this stuff? It's like I honestly think that on election night we saw those people at the Javits Center waiting for Hillary Clinton and they were crying. And the next day you had the people in the Obama administration in the Rose Garden waiting for President Obama to comment on election and they had these long faces and they were all -- they've spent a lot of Democrats a year and a half emoting about things and kicking Sarah Sanders out of a restaurant and doing kind of these ridiculous things. And I think this week it's funny that this interview with Michael Moore on Thursday, it's like things finally got real. Democrats just spent a year and a half on Russia and everything else. And when you had the Supreme Court decisions which showed actually a travel ban is going to stick, and oh by the way, Justice Kennedy is stepping down and President Trump is actually president. Even though you don't want to acknowledge it, it got real.
MACCALLUM: That was the view of what Michael Moore said. You know, he said he plans on being president again. I was like, that's not how it works, you have to run. You have to be elected, not he plans on doing it again.
TIMPF: It's generally how it works.
MACCALLUM: (INAUDIBLE) another four years. I thought you know, he said he'd love to talk about being president for life. Unfortunately, that's not the way it works in this country. And often I just feel like I understand and I understood the tears on election night. It was shocked, right? Things did not go the way they thought it was going to go. But at some point there has to be an accounting for real changes, actual things that are happening and I think the situation at the border is a real situation. You can talk about whether or not you know it existed that in a similar way in the last administration. But some of these realities I think really came home to roost this week, especially with the Supreme Court decision. Kirsten Gillibrand is sure that all Democrats will vote against the new nominee just as they did last time with corsets. Watches this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS CUOMO, HOST, CNN: Are you right that he didn't get one vote? Didn't he get three? Didn't he get Manchin?
SEN. KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND, D-N.Y.: He got no Democratic vote.
CUOMO: He didn't get Manchin, Heitkamp?
GILLIBRAND: He did not. They stood strong and they passed it with Republican votes.
CUOMO: I thought he got three by the way.
GILLIBRAND: Did he? You might be right, Chris, but I believe this Democratic caucus will stand together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: She needs to look over at her aide there for a second.
SHILLUE: We need a little --
MACCALLUM: Obviously not a (INAUDIBLE).
SHILLUE: We needed the Jeopardy -- wrong. It was three.
MACCALLUM: So I mean, now we're looking at collective outrage and a lot of plans to try to figure out some way to prevent this nominee from happening and yet it looks pretty difficult just you know -- again, you have to go back into fact land and look at how these things work and how it goes that they're going to have a tough time.
SHILLUE: Yes, and it's sad. I mean, I think the President gets his picks. That's what happens. The President picks the -- unless there's something wrong with the person. I grew up -- when I was -- it was -- when I was in college, it was Bork and that was the big thing. That was the first big fight. And they've been fighting ever since. And you know, Clarence Thomas, it becomes this big thing.
MACCALLUM: Kennedy was approved 97 to zero.
MACCALLUM: That will never happen again.
ED HENRY, FOX NEWS CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And you know what? You know what year it was? Nineteen eighty-eight which was a presidential election year. So guess what. Both parties actually came together and said, you know what, Ronald Reagan found a way out, but he's president, and George H.W. Bush ended up winning. So maybe they thought he was going to get to shape the court.
But you're right, you win, you get to shape the court and that was my point before. I think a lot of Democrats, a year and a half ago, didn't get that, like, this was real. And that Donald Trump was going to govern.
MACCALLUM: It's sinking in. You know what else is sinking in, a bad reality as a result of a Jimmy John's delivery. OK? So this young woman thinks she's going to do something nice for her new boyfriend, they've only been dating for three months, she's going to send him Jimmy John's, because he's studying finals.
Because she calls them and she goes, I live far away but I'm going to send over to him. So the delivery guy goes and delivers it. And when he gets there, he finds an unfortunate set of circumstances playing out in the home. And this is what she tweeted after. I promise I'll fill in the blanks. Let's take a look at the tweets.
She says, "I do want to thank Jimmy John's for their incredible service to their customers. Not many would do what that delivery driver did. And I'm grateful that he called me and was honest about the situation."
So Tom, it turns out that when the guy delivered the sandwich there was some other girl at the apartment.
MACCALLUM: And her supposedly studying boyfriend for finals was boxers only at this point.
SHILLUE: Yes, I know.
MACCALLUM: And so the Jimmy John's delivery guy took it upon himself to call her. I think you better know.
SHILLUE: He is nark.
MACCALLUM: I got to tell you.
SHILLUE: He told about the cheating boyfriend. And I think it's great. I mean, this, you can't cheat on your girlfriend, especially, this woman, there's a think called guy code. Guys aren't supposed -- guys are supposed to stick together. I don't stick together with this guy. If you had a girlfriend who is sending you submarine sandwiches, you keep that girlfriend, you do not cheat on her.
TIMPF: I wish there was Jimmy John's in New York City. Ever since I read this story, now all can I think about is Jimmy John's. There are no Jimmy John's. They bring you sandwiches and they tell you if your boyfriend is cheating on you. That's not a restaurant, that's like a best friend forever.
MACCALLUM: The problem with this whole thing is that we are also used to infiltrated into other people's lives now. I think through social media and everything. And it's like, I know that person on Twitter, I know them on Facebook. You feel like you know everybody. This is none of your business.
MACCALLUM: Mr. Delivery boy. Drop the sandwich, and leave.
HENRY: It's like the Alexa device which I have couple of mine. That was the coolest thing. I started hearing, they're spying on you, they're listening to your conversations.
HENRY: People push the wrong button and other people are hearing about it. By the way, there is a Jimmy John's like a block from the White House, I'm sorry you don't have it in New York.
TIMPF: I really want Jimmy John's.
HENRY: We go there sometimes between live shots. The tuna country club sandwich.
SHILLUE: Great sandwiches.
TIMPF: I don't have Jimmy John's around, or a boyfriend, so it's very sad.
MACCALLUM: But you are not crying on the couch every day.
TIMPF: But I'm not crying on the couch every day.
MACCALLUM: You are OK.
MACCALLUM: Thank you, guys. Good to see today.
HENDY: Great. You, too.
MACCALLUM: Happy 4th of July, have a great week. Coming up next, there is news breaking in the biggest sports scandal in the United States history.
Texas prosecutors have now come to a decision about the Karolyis.
Plus, these families have waited for the remains of their loved ones for 65 years. Now they're waiting for Kim Jong-un to make good on his word. Their story is next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE POMPEO, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF STATE: I am optimistic that we will begin to have two opportunities, one to receive some remains in the not too distant future.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: This is breaking tonight, there will be no charges for famed U.S. Gymnastics coaches Bela and Marta Karolyi. Texas prosecutors announcing today that they did not find wrongdoing by the couple in connection with the Larry Nassar sex abuse scandal.
Last May, some of Nassar's victims called on Texas officials to investigate why USA gymnastics coach Marta Karolyi knew what he knew -- what she knew, rather, about Nassar's abuse while they trained at the Karolyi ranch, the U.S. Olympic training center.
The Karolyis have always maintained that they did not know what was going on. Today Texas prosecutors did file new charges of sexual abuse against Nassar who was already in prison on these charges for the rest of his life.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
POMPEO: I am optimistic that we will begin to have two opportunities, one is to receive some remains in the not too distant future. We're dogged in trying to facilitate this as quickly as we possibly can.
SEN. JEANNE SHAHEEN, D-N.H.: Thank you, I appreciate that. And just to be clear, we have not yet received any--
POMPEO: That's correct, senator. We have not physically received them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: That was Secretary of State Mike Pompeo delivering that update earlier this week. No remains of U.S. troops returned yet from North Korea. Around 7,700 U.S. troops are still unaccounted for from the Korean War. But Pompeo is optimistic about President Trump's agreement with Kim Jong-un to bring our nation's heroes home. And family members are still holding out hope that they will be reunited with their loved ones.
Tonight we follow up with two of the families who joined us before. First lieutenant Robert Schmidt fought forward through the most brutal battle of the Korean War but sadly never returned.
And Captain John Henry Zimmerlee went out on a night mission in Korea but his plane disappeared and only questions remained.
Here, now, their family members still fighting to bring them home. Joan Morris is the niece of first lieutenant Robert Schmidt. And John Zimmerlee is the son of Captain John Henry Zimmerlee. Welcome back to both of you. It is good to have you back with us.
We got so much feedback from your stories, and I think people want so much for you to have the circle closed on what this situation has brought to your families. Joan, let me start with you, just remind us, about your Uncle Bobby's service.
JOAN MORRIS, NIECE OF KOREAN WAR VETERAN: Well, Uncle Bobby served in World War II for over three years. And then he came back to North Dakota and graduated with an ROTC degree and he became an army officer. And he was stationed in Japan, then he went to Korea. And he was killed at the children (Ph) reservoir on December 1, 1950.
MACCALLUM: And John, your dad?
JOHN ZIMMERLEE, SON OF KOREAN WAR VETERAN: Yes, so my father was an air force navigator, went out on a small plane on a night mission in March of 1952, he was on radio communication around 9 p.m. And that's the last we heard from him. No one knows whether they crashed into a mountain, whether they were shot down, whether they were taken captive. No one really knows.
There are some documents that give us those hints that some of them may have been in captivity. But even that is not positive evidence.
MACCALLUM: Joan, you know, obviously these are difficult circumstances and you heard Secretary Pompeo say that they are committed to bringing them back. And what we know about some of the graveyards that were used and some of the situations. How difficult do you think it will actually be to see this through?
MORRIS: Well, I think it will be very difficult. One end, you're dealing with the North Korean government who, even though it's humanitarian type of issue. In the past has used the return of our soldier's remains as a bargaining chip with the United States.
The other issue that I'm very worried about is the Department of Defense and their capabilities, their competent, and the overall direction that they're using as far as identifying the remains. And I say that, because some of the remains were returned over 20 years ago and still have not been identified.
So the Department of Defense is not using updated DNA technology. They're using very expensive technology that takes four to five months for a test result to come in. Where, if they were using nuclear DNA technology the test results would come in within a week. They're 10 times less expensive than the DNA test that they're using now. And they have a higher degree of accuracy as far as identifying the particular soldiers.
MACCALLUM: Yes. I mean, John, you share that concern, I know. In terms of the response from the DOD and exactly where these remains are. And some of them are in U.S. territory.
ZIMMERLEE: Yes. In fact, the DPAA announced today that they made an identification of a person who was of an unidentified remains, it's been buried in Hawaiian cemetery for 65 years. That remains was tentatively associated with this particular individual. It took them 60 years to even read the document. They dug him up four years ago from the cemetery.
And just now, four years later, are identifying with the micro -- the mitochondrial DNA that Joan is referring to, which is really antiquated.
MACCALLUM: Yes. Joan, you know, I think so much of this is about this war getting the respect that it deserves. Is that -- is that part of what drives you, in your mission for your family?
MORRIS: I don't think it's the--
MACCALLUM: Joan and then John. Go ahead, Joan.
MORRIS: I don't think it's the overall view of the war. I think it's a very personal type of issue for our family. My grandmother was very concerned about the fact that my uncle did not have a proper burial. And when she moved, she sent letters to the Department of Defense indicating her new address and was there any updates or anything like that.
And so I think we take it personally, this is something that since that generation has gone, we're the ones that hopefully will be able to bring our Uncle Bobby home and have a proper burial.
MACCALLUM: John, quick thoughts on that again.
ZIMMERLEE: Yes, we feel that our government has not shared all of the information that they have with us over all these years. And now this is an opportunity for the media to put pressure on our government to release a lot of that information and a lot of the details on the remains.
MACCALLUM: John, as you just said with your help. So we'll stay on your story, we hope you'll come back, and our thanks to both of you. Thank you very much for being here.
MORRIS: Thank you.
ZIMMERLEE: Thank you.
MACCALLUM: A controversial conservative commentator Mona Charen is out with a new book. She says feminism got it all wrong, and she is telling women in America to wake up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MONA CHAREN, AUTHOR, "SEX MATTERS": The feminist movement really went wrong when it said that was the male model was the thing that women had to be.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
CHAREN: And instead of saying, no, the female model is a great model.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: My next guest is no stranger to controversy, that was her speaking at C-PAC earlier this year. A couple of her comments even drew boos from the crowd that day. But that has not stopped Mona Charen from calling out what she sees as blatant hypocrisy in both parties.
Tonight she has a new book that targets in part the Me Too movement and modern day feminism. She believes the movement has lost its way.
Earlier this week, I sat down with Mona Charen, the author of "Sex Matters: How Modern Feminism Lost Touch With Science, Love, and Common Sense."
MACCALLUM: Fascinating. And, really, you're pushing back on some very, sort of uniformly accepted norms about how feminism is supposed to be empowering to women.
CHAREN: It's supposed to be pro-woman. And in some ways it was. But the point of my book, feminism took a couple of really devastating wrong turns. One was in embracing the sexual revolution. And the other was in rejecting family life as a trap for women.
And instead what we found, we've had 50 years now of experience with modern feminism. And what we've seen is families are disintegrating, women are struggling, single women are struggling to do everything themselves. Men are disconnected from their families and sometimes even from the workforce. It's time to rethink some of the assumptions that got us here.
MACCALLUM: One of the things that you say, is that you see declining female happiness.
CHAREN: Yes. It's really interesting. If you look at the general social survey, which they started asking questions in 1972, how happy are you, and what they noticed is that every year since, women have been less happy and men have gotten more happy.
So if the feminist movement with all of its achievements were supposed to be the answer for women's happiness you wouldn't expect to see that men are now happier than women and women's happiness has steady declined.
I think a lot of it is about how insecure modern women are. They don't have the structure of marriage, family, that security that women need because we are the ones who have babies and we do need to be taken care of when we're in those vulnerable stages of our lives.
MACCALLUM: So you are you a very independent woman, you have had a big career.
MACCALLUM: Very successful career. You're married, you have children. Some people say that is difficult to have it all.
CHAREN: Right. So, the line that I always repeated, is you can't have it all -- you can have it all but not all at once. And also, I kind of reject this whole notion of having it all. Because first of all, we don't know what it is, right.
CHAREN: It doesn't necessarily mean, you know, you have 2.5 kids and you got and X number of -- the huge income and a great career. It may mean having a fulfilled and happy and balanced life. And if that's your goal, then you definitely want to place family security right at the center of your life plan. Instead of something that you just hope will come along later. And that applies to men as well as women.
MACCALLUM: All right. Very important to get to get to this question about the Me Too movement and how we got here. How did during the empowerment phase of women in this country, did we find ourselves falling prey to these awful situations with men?
CHAREN: Right. So in some ways I actually think the Me Too movement is good, because I think it's women saying I have had enough, it's almost you could interpret it as a rejection of the sexual revolution that the feminist unwisely endorsed in the 1970s and since then.
But the fact is, that by endorsing the sexual revolution and agreeing that we should just drop all of the old standards about how men should behave, what it meant to be a gentleman, that we kind of open the door to this kind of loutish, gross behavior that we have seen in so many men.
And if women are pushing back against it, great. But they should understand the feminism bears some part of the responsibility for how we got here. That when they said, of course we don't want any particular sensitivity by men. We don't want you to hold doors. We don't want you to be gentlemen. That's condescending. Well, the result was, men didn't know how to behave. And some of them just defaulted to being jerks.
MACCALLUM: What about, you know, dating and flirting and how difficult those things become now in this environment where men in some cases who don't want to get sucked into any of this kind of trouble feel like they just can't--
MACCALLUM: -- be themselves. Or you know, they have trouble knowing what the parameters are.
CHAREN: Right. I think we actually need to return to some basic rules about behavior. One of them is, if you're married you absolutely shouldn't be looking or touching anybody who isn't your spouse.
But also, you know, just basic things like so many of these women who came forward with the Me Too movement, were saying well, they went to Harvey Weinstein's hotel room for a business meeting. They didn't know that that's something you shouldn't do. Well, that should be just part of the rules. That there's never a reason for a male boss to ask a woman to come to his hotel room for a business meeting. And women should be empowered, really empowered, right, to say not happening. Not appropriate.
MACCALLUM: Not happening. Exactly.
MACCALLUM: To send that signal very clearly--
MACCALLUM: -- if you are interested in a professional relationship, and if that's not what this is, then that's it.
MACCALLUM: There's no -- you know, to put to lay down that marker. Mona, there's so much more to talk about. But I encourage everybody to read your book, it's fascinating, it's going to be controversial, no doubt, as you often are. And we're so glad you came here first. It's great to see you tonight.
CHAREN: Thank you.
MACCALLUM: Thank you very much for being here tonight. Good luck.
CHAREN: Thank you.
MACCALLUM: Our thanks to Mona Charen. So when we come back tonight, remembering the five victims of yesterday's shooting at the Capital Gazette newspaper in Maryland.
MACCALLUM: Finally tonight we want to pay tribute to the five people killed in yesterday's attack at the Capital Gazette newspaper in Maryland. Despite the trauma and the loss, the small Annapolis paper put out an edition today.
The victims have been identified as Rob Hiaason, an assistant editor and columnist. Wendi Winters, the special publications editor. Gerald Fischman, editorial page editor. Rebecca Smith, a sales assistant, and writer John McNamara.
Inside the paper they left the opinion page blank. The editor writing only this, "Today we are speechless. This page is intentionally left blank to commemorate the victims of yesterday's shooting at our office. Tomorrow this Capital page will return to its steady purpose of offering readers informed opinions about the world around them that they might be better citizens."
Our thoughts and prayers are with the Capital Gazette staff and their families tonight. That is our story. Tucker is up next.
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