Published January 25, 2017
This is a partial transcript from "On the Record" with Greta Van Susteren, July 29, 2004 that has been edited for clarity.
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GRETA VAN SUSTEREN: Back with more on the Lori Hacking mystery. Let's bring in our panel. Forensic pathologist Dr. Michael Baden is in New York.
DR. MICHAEL BADEN, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Hi Greta.
VAN SUSTEREN: Hello, Dr. Baden.
Former assistant DA Jim Hammer is in San Francisco and here in Boston is attorney Gloria Allred. Nice to see you on the set of this show.
SHEPARD SMITH, HOST OF "FOX REPORT": Indeed it is. Gloria, tonight hearing from Pat out in Salt Lake you wonder if this case isn't already just over. I mean if all we're waiting for now is to find a body and charge a husband.
GLORIA ALLRED, ATTORNEY: Well, obviously we haven't heard all of the evidence yet. In fact, they probably haven't accumulated all of the evidence yet. So I think it's really too early to know whether or not the husband did it. Obviously, anyone would have to be-well, not telling the truth if they didn't think that at least there was some suspicion about the husband. His behavior is bizarre. He is obviously leading a double life.
JIM HAMMER, FORMER ASSISTANT DA: Well, the police are saying that they don't even believe she was jogging in the first place. If they don't believe she was jogging, then they don't believe the husband's story that she went out and jogged that morning. So what happened to her? Well, there's nothing before that, there's nothing after that. That's the husband that's.
ALLRED: And it may have been a cover. And have they discovered a knife that is being reported and is there blood on it and is there hair of the missing woman on it and are the fingerprints of the husband on it or not? There are a lot of questions yet to be answered.
VAN SUSTEREN: Alright, Dr. Baden. This car that was left at the canyon. The first story was is that she drove her car to the canyon, got out, went jogging and vanished. Now I assume that the car is a bit of a decoy. What is the sort of forensic investigation they should be doing of that car if any to sort of shore up their at least present theory that it was a decoy of some sort?
BADEN: Well, as Gloria said, a lot of material has been gathered but it's still in the process, undoubtedly, of being analyzed. Was there any evidence of blood in either car? Whose fingerprints are on the steering wheel or on the car near the steering wheel would be important. Remember, the decoy part of it was added to by a supposed eyewitness who thought they saw Lori stretching at that point. I think right now it's very interesting. All of this material, if it were a decoy, will go a long way to speaking against a psychiatric defense. He knew what he was doing, he planned certain things and that would speak against his being unaware of his actions during a rage reaction against his wife.
VAN SUSTEREN: Which is sort of interesting, Jim, having-everyone keeps talking about-or at least we have in the last couple of days heard this thing about this was a "rage killing." A rage killing can be first degree murder. Most people do kill in a rage.
VAN SUSTEREN: .and it's a little bit sort of phony that we sort of use that term.
HAMMER: Right. The real question is going to be what his state of mind was. And Dr. Baden is correct that the moments and the hours really right after this killing, assuming the husband is responsible for it, are going to be the key to proving his psychiatric state. You pointed out last week, Greta, one of the most important facts is his 10:49 call to the police. What is it that prompted that? Did somebody call him first to tell him that his wife was missing? There was another call that's important and that's 10:00 that morning, when he calls to the work and asks how his wife is doing and then says, "Oh my God, her work clothes are missing," pretending as though he's home. If he actually said that while he was at the mattress store and they can prove that through the cell phone records, that's a very plodding, pre-meditated guy who's got a solid mind trying to cover his tracks. That sounds like first degree murder, possibly.
ALLRED: And, of course, we know, Greta, that it doesn't take more than maybe a moment or two to premeditate.
VAN SUSTEREN: People don't understand that premeditation can be a split section and the jurors are told. Did you know that?
SMITH: You know, I wonder-well, I watch your show, so I know it. But you know what I wonder. The police are not saying much of anything, in fact, they are not saying anything, and I wonder if they don't sit in the cop shop and say, "We already know all these answers, all this stuff is already in there. We know what happened." They did a Luminol test in that place. They know what's going on in there. They tracked that blood.
VAN SUSTEREN: But they're backing off a little -- "There are traces of blood." And I think they mean -- "We don't know exactly."
SMITH: They've typed it all, they know what's going on, they just can't say anything yet because they're worried if they call a man a suspect they'll end up like the Olympic Park Bombing in Atlanta.
ALLRED: And then here comes that old rush-to-judgment defense.
SMITH: There you go. It works, clearly.
HAMMER: I think Shep has it just right.
SMITH: That's scary, isn't it. Good of you all to be here. Thanks. Up next: Is Scott Peterson's defense running circles around the prosecution. We'll take you inside the courtroom in Redwood City, California.
VAN SUSTEREN: And later we're going to go behind the scenes at "On the Record" and we're going to see what it takes for our staff to get this show off the ground.
SMITH: Man that stuff is good.
VAN SUSTEREN: Every night.
SMITH: They have to carry her around. They have this thing that four people-they get on each side-you've seen those things where they carry kings and princes around, they have a chair up on top that's inlaid in gold and they carry him around-that's what happens to Greta every day. These people.
VAN SUSTEREN: I'm so glad I invited you.
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