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CNN to hold live draw for 2020 Democratic debate lineup
Published July 09, 2019
This is a rush transcript from "The Five," July 9, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
JESSE WATTERS, HOST: Hello, everybody. I'm Jesse Watters along with Katie Pavlich, Juan Williams, Dana Perino, and Greg. It's 5 o'clock in New York City, and this is “The Five.”
A battle over adding a citizenship question to the 2020 census is getting downright nasty. President Trump refusing to back down after the Supreme Court halted the move, and now, Nancy Pelosi is going after the president with this smear.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI, D-CALIF.: This is about keeping, you know, make America -- you know, this hat, make America white again, they want to make sure that people -- certain people are counted. It's really disgraceful. And it's not what our founders had in mind.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATTERS: Attacks like that not stopping the Trump administration from going forward. Attorney General Barr says the DOJ has to work around to include the citizenship question.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAM BARR, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Yes, again, we think considering all the options, and I've been in constant discussions with the president ever since the Supreme Court decision came down, and I think over the next day or two, you'll see what approach we're taking. I think it does provide a pathway for getting the question on the census.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATTERS: OK. Juan Williams, explained to me why Democrats don't want the federal government to have an accurate read on who is in the country?
JUAN WILLIAMS, HOST: We do. I think Democrats do very much. I think that the constitution says very clearly and the enumeration clause, you know, article one it says very clearly that it's an actual count of all the people. It didn't say citizens, it says count all the people --
WATTERS: OK.
WILLIAMS: -- because it's for representation of Congress and for federal funding. It's really an important issue.
WATTERS: Right.
WILLIAMS: And once you start changing and playing games with -- oh, well, let's count -- you know, remember, this is the famous black three fifths or don't count the Indians, they're not -- all this, they don't pay taxes to Indians. So, no, this -- what we have understood since for all time is, count all the people, the entire population. In fact, the 14th amendment - -
WATTERS: OK. But should give you a count of all the people --
WILLIAMS: Yeah.
WATTERS: -- if you ask the question still.
WILLIAMS: No, because what happens is, and I think --
WATTERS: Well, illegal immigrants aren't people, is that what you're saying, Juan?
WILLIAMS: No, what I'm saying is -- what it does -- the impact is, Jesse, it scares people often. They think that the government is gonna use this - -
WATTERS: Scares people.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
KATIE PAVLICH, HOST: This is just like the argument --
WATTERS: Scary. Census is scary.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: If your family is here and they suddenly -- come get your grandma and throw her out, yeah, that's scary.
WATTERS: OK.
GREG GUTFELD, HOST: Throw up the granny.
PAVLICH: First of all, the census ask -- ask about your race. So, if this is really about racism maybe we should stop asking people about what their race is on the census because I think that might be more racially prone than asking people if they're citizen or not --
WILLIAMS: But that's in the constitution.
PAVLICH: -- doesn't have to do with race. And so, that's the first thing. The second thing is the Supreme Court, when they came down with this 5-4 decision, actually said in the opinion that it was legal for the justice -- for the commerce department to ask the question, they just didn't really like the justification for it, which for conservatives justices on the court said was ridiculous the questions out, legality of the situation.
Democrats don't want a count, an accurate count of illegal immigrants because, precisely, what you said, Juan, the census counts everybody in order to distribute power in Washington, D.C. And Nancy Pelosi is projecting when she says that it's Trump that what certain voters when, actually, Democrats don't want an accurate count because then it will display how many illegal immigrants are being counted for Democratic leadership and Democratic positions in Washington, D.C., because most of them live in blue places.
So for Democrats this isn't about racism or about making sure people answer the census because they're scared. It's about giving up political power because the census allocates seats and they want as many seats as it possibly can get, legal or not.
WILLIAMS: But wait a second. Let me just quickly respond to Katie. Katie, it's not about adding, it's about subtracting. If you count everyone, then --
PAVLICH: You mean illegal immigrants wouldn't be counted --
WILLIAMS: They would be counted.
PAVLICH: -- Washington, D.C. --
WILLIAMS: They would be counted. In other words, that's what the constitution -- that's what the 14th amendment calls for.
PAVLICH: Everyone is being counted. The question is, whether illegal immigrants should be used to allocate seats in Washington, D.C., when they're not citizens of the country.
WILLIAMS: That's your issue. I'm just saying --
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: -- the constitution -- and this is why three federal judges have ruled against the administration.
PAVLICH: No one is saying they won't be counted. We're saying let's count them and figure out what kind of people are in the country. We do it by race. We're asking to do it by citizenship. And we're asking that so we can make sure that representation in Washington, D.C. is for American citizens and not for 20 million illegal aliens in the country.
WATTERS: Greg, I have an interesting poll here.
GUTFELD: Well, that would be surprising.
WATTERS: Two polls, actually.
GUTFELD: Oh, geez.
WATTERS: A majority --
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: Yes. One wasn't enough?
WATTERS: A majority of Americans support asking the question.
GUTFELD: Including minorities.
WATTERS: Including Hispanics.
GUTFELD: Yes. So if you're against this, then according to Nancy Pelosi, you must be racist. If you're against this counting which minority are for, you are a hopeless bigot and that's disgust me. First -- the fact this is opening segment is about a question on the census, which is essentially a pile of paper that very few people care about. Welcome to a great time to be alive, right? This is our A-block, right? It's not war, it's not pestilence, you know. It's not people dying in the streets. It's about the census.
But the big thing here that bugs me, and you guys actually argued this quite coherently, it's just the race smear, OK? And so counting now is racist. Is a counting racist? Is count basis racist? When someone gets an I.D. -- gets I.D. for beer, is that racist? If you're filling out a job application is that racist? Any time information is asked, well, that now be considered racist?
This is -- it's so overdone now that it's becoming background noise. And I will make a deal. If we have -- if the left has a moratorium on calling people racist, I'll stop calling people communist and socialist, OK?
WATTERS: I'm not going to agree to that.
GUTFELD: I know you wouldn't --
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: But it's one minute -- one minute, Pelosi is a seasoned pro that understands working with people, and the next thing, she throws on the social justice, wear your costume. It's like gramps putting on board shorts to go skateboarding at the wharf. Her heart wasn't even in it. You could tell she didn't even believe it when she was saying it.
DANA PERINO, HOST: I think there's a reason that she really wanted to do it is because she didn't like all the coverage from yesterday.
GUTFELD: Yes,
PERINO: What was our A-block yesterday?
GUTFELD: Exactly.
PERINO: This is about the fact that she has a feud with AOC and the others, and that was the A-block yesterday. So -- it's actually kind of clever from a communication standpoint. I know how to turn this right around. I'll say Trump is a racist.
GUTFELD: Yes.
PERINO: And that unites her with her leftist flank, and then she's able to talk about this. I do feel like if Bill Barr had been the attorney general from the beginning that the commerce department would not have made this screw up and they would not be in a legal jam that they are in. He's doing his best to try to figure out a way that they can do this, but they are late to it. And we do need to have a count.
I also think that it could turn out that there could be some Republicans who were kind of worried that you might not count all people and then distribute it that way. Not because of power in Washington, but because of money that goes back to the state. So if you're in a state that has a lot of people who are here illegally and if they're not counted, but those are people who use the roads, they are on public transit --
WATTERS: Florida.
PERINO: Absolutely. And so, this might not be so partisan when it actually all gets in the -- through the wash.
WILLIAMS: Let me just respond to Greg on this race issue because I think it's explosive. You know, to me --
GUTFELD: You think so?
WILLIAMS: I do. I do.
(LAUGHTER)
WILLIAMS: Because I don't think -- I think the constitution says you should ask people their color. That's also for you, Katie --
PAVLICH: OK, but --
WILLIAMS: That's legal. That's constitutional.
WATTERS: Oh, wait, wait --
WILLIAMS: I'm not saying --
WATTERS: You're saying it's unconstitutional --
PAVLICH: To ask --
WATTERS: -- to ask an illegal immigrant if they're citizens.
WILLIAMS: What I'm saying --
WATTERS: You're saying it's unconstitutional --
WILLIAMS: Yeah, because that's --
(CROSSTALK)
WATTERS: Juan, that's not true.
WILLIAMS: The constitution says --
WATTERS: You need to go back and research that because that is not true.
WILLIAMS: Let me just say, the 14th amendment clearly says -- and the 14th amendment is the one that brought black into full citizenship, says whole number of people in each state. And let me just quickly add, there was a top Republican donor who sent a memo to commerce saying, here's how we can, in fact, diminish the impact of non-white citizen voting.
WATTERS: OK. Or --
WILLIAMS: What do you guys want?
WATTERS: Or we can accurate read on who's in the country, and illegal immigrants --
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: Greg says racism is at stake. And here's a white Republican donor saying --
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: Yes. But you were actually -- I was talking about the use of the race smear by Nancy Pelosi.
WILLIAMS: I don't think it was a smear. I think --
GUTFELD: Of course you don't because you think Trump's a racist. You wrote a whole book about it.
WILLIAMS: It's true. I do. But I'm just telling you there is, in fact, a white Republican --
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: But see, that's not responding to me. You say you think, but you have no facts. Show me facts that Trump is a racist.
WILLIAMS: Oh --
GUTFELD: Yeah, go for it, go for it, start now.
WILLIAMS: I don't even want to go back to birther, Central Park Five, S- hole country --
GUTFELD: Again, go -- he was also a birther about Ted Cruz. There goes that racist part.
WILLIAMS: Oh, you mean about his dad killing Kennedy?
GUTFELD: Yes. Yes.
WILLIAMS: Oh.
GUTFELD: Born in Canada.
WATTERS: Again, Juan is wrong.
GUTFELD: Set title of our new show.
WATTERS: Democrats now calling out their party's far-left extremism. Greg's got it, up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUTFELD: One of Dana's favorite songs. Something weird is happening over in the Democratic Party. I mean more than the usual weird. This is a good weird. The whiny kids have made so much of a racket that the adults are finally waking up. First, BET Network founder, Bob Johnson, says this about the Democrats.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOB JOHNSON, BET FOUNDER: The party, in my opinion, has moved for me, personally, too far to the left. And for that reason, I don't have a candidate in this particular -- in the party at this time. I think at the end of the day, if a Democrat is going to beat Trump, that person, he or she is going to have to move to the center. And you can't wait too long to do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: He said this about the economy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSON: I think the economy is doing absolutely great. So African- American unemployment is at its lowest level, Hispanic unemployment, women, so I give President Trump, and I've said this before on squat box, I give the president a lot of credit for moving the economy in a positive direction that's been -- a large number of America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: That sound you hear is Cory Booker crying. And then there's Jeh Johnson, Obama's DHS Secretary criticizing his party's candidate for essentially proclaiming to smugglers that we have open borders. Wow, where did these guys come from, a MAGA rally? Both are vocal black Democrats, yet I can't wait for the media to paint them as white supremacist.
So I applaud this because right now the sensible Democratic Party is in hiding, terrified to the looniest voices, an unlikable mess of identities screamers and Antifa sympathizers who throw milkshakes for exercise. Maybe these two Johnsons will lead the way for others Dems to stand up and shout stop being crazy. If only crazy people would listen.
But delusions make you deaf to sense. Right now, the Democrats are approaching cult status. One that rejects all mainstreaming, shrinking in size as they alienate everyone who isn't woke enough. For the new left, any deviation from resist makes you complicit and evil, just being born can make you a racist.
But this strategy is for losers, meaning if only four people by your tiny definition or woke, that means the remaining 340 million aren't. And if you wish to condemn the un-woke, say goodbye to all of them. You'll be members of the world's smallest party, one that no one wants to attend.
You know, Dana, if I were a team sport ideologue, I would have trashed the Johnsons, right? Because I don't want the Dems to listen to them. I want them to keep going in the identity path. But I am a good person. I'm almost as good as Ed Henry. He's donating his liver. I'm donating my thoughts to the Democratic Party.
PERINO: And we have -- speak for the show. We got an update that Ed came through the surgery just fine, so --
GUTFELD: I think I like to say that my support got him through.
PERINO: I think it probably did. I just can't wait until he's well enough to laugh --
GUTFELD: Yes.
PERINO: -- laugh again. And he'll be watching. So, the Jeh Johnson what I thought was very interesting because he was like, whoa, stop.
GUTFELD: Yeah.
PERINO: And you know when he did it was right after the Democratic debate when all but one or two people raised their hand saying they were for decriminalizing crossings at the border. And for President Trump, like he doesn't have to win all of the African-American votes, but if he can increase his margins just a little bit, that will help. Remember, that vote did not turn out as well as for Hillary Clinton as they did for Barack Obama. So that is an area where I think that they -- the Republicans could make some gains if they want to focus a little bit.
GUTFELD: Yeah. Jesse, can you name the city that Bob Johnson was in?
WATTERS: Was it Perry?
GUTFELD: It might be. Either that or Vegas.
(LAUGHTER)
WATTERS: You never know. You do a good job there.
GUTFELD: Yes.
WATTERS: I'm going to repeat something that I've said, probably two or three times already. If you're a Democrat running for president, you can't win the general with socialism, but you can't win the primary without it. And here's the conundrum, 60 percent of Americans oppose giving health insurance to illegals, 60 percent oppose eliminating private health care, 60 percent oppose reparations, and an overwhelming majority oppose gun confiscation and sanctuary cities.
But, the Democratic primary hardcore left-wing voters support all that stuff. So there's a huge disconnect between mainstream consensus American thinking and Democrat primary voters that puts them in a huge bind. Notice how they've tabled their traditional bread and butter, kitchen table issues, like jobs, and wages, and trade, and manufacturing because the Trump economy is so hot. And all of the massive wage growth is taking place amongst the bottom half of wage earners, especially among blacks and Hispanics. It's the bottom up recovery as opposed to the Obama fake recovery what was mostly from the top.
Now to Dana's point, the Democrats have not been able to recreate that Obama coalition. Hillary couldn't do it. They're trying to replicate it again. Minorities, young women, millennials, they're just not going to be able to do it. And so, I just think Trump's got this locked down to the max and borrowing an unforeseen disaster, it's reelection in a landslide.
GUTFELD: Well, Juan, I'll say this. You're one of the people that talked about the need for a center lane and stuff like that. The problem is, the people that are supposed to be in the center are wiggling out of it. And they should be like the Johnson's and say, we want the center lane.
WATTERS: The Johnson's --
GUTFELD: The Johnson's.
WATTERS: -- 2020.
GUTFELD: We need a band aid from Johnson & Johnson.
WILLIAMS: Johnson & Johnson. I know these guys. I can get them together. I will say -- I thought that your analysis was pretty good, the conundrum. But the thing is, Jesse, it's a Democratic primary. You've got to get the Democratic nomination.
WATTERS: I know.
WILLIAMS: And so, this is no coronation which was a complaint about Hillary Clinton if you'll recall. You have real factions within the party contesting to see who comes out on top. I think that's healthy. And let me just say --
GUTFELD: But has it moved to the left, though, Juan, come on.
WILLIAMS: Give me a second. I think the young people, Greg, are the ones who are pushing to the left. But guess what? Right now, Joe Biden remains in the lead in the Democratic race. And why is that? Because the older folks, and guess what, the blacks and Hispanic back Joe Biden.
GUTFELD: I'm so tired of guessing.
WILLIAMS: May be the party has not moved so far to the left to my mind. The Republicans under Trump have moved to the far-right --
(CROSSTALK)
WATTERS: Why are their politics going so far to the --
WILLIAMS: No, I think their politics are reflecting what they're experiencing, especially in the Trump administration where you have families being separated --
GUTFELD: Separating the families again, Katie.
PAVLICH: Oh, my gosh, that whole thing. Look, this is a reflection of the Democrats saying everything under Trump is a crisis and, therefore, nothing is a crisis. And when you have people like Bob Johnson and Jeh Johnson coming out and completely destroy the argument that Donald Trump is a racist and has to be stopped at all cost regardless of all the other economic factors or policy positions that they out ahead.
People like Elizabeth Warren, I will say, is putting forward some kind of policy position, while at the same time going after Trump very personally. But when it comes to the politically correct nature and the constant accusations of racism, it's like Democrats haven't learned a single thing about why Donald Trump won in the first place.
GUTFELD: All right. We're going to move on, shall we? Yes, Greg, please do. New fallout from the sex trafficking case against Jeffrey Epstein, the latest details ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PERINO: Labor Secretary Alex Acosta defiant amid growing calls to resign in the wake of the Jeffrey Epstein sex trafficking case. Acosta under scrutiny for cutting the controversial plea deal as U.S. attorney on similar charges against Epstein back in 2008. Despite these calls to step aside, President Trump is standing by him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT: I can only say this from what I know, and what I do know is that he's been a great, really great secretary of labor. The rest of it we'll have to look -- we have to look at it very carefully. But you're talking about a long time ago. And, again, it was a decision made, I think not by him, but by a lot of people. So we're going to look at it very carefully.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: Trump also distancing himself from his past relationship with Epstein.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I knew him like everybody in Palm Beach knew him. I mean, people in Palm Beach knew him, he was a fixture in Palm Beach. I had a falling out with him a long time ago. I don't think I've spoken to him for 15 years. I wasn't a fan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: All of this comes as Bill Clinton's ties to Epstein have resurface, Clinton insists he knows nothing about Epstein's, quote, terrible crimes, and says they haven't spoken in ten years. Clinton is saying they flew together four times in Epstein's plane back in 2002 and 2003, and there were multiple stops on those flights, so maybe it was up to 26 or 27.
Where to begin? Let me start with you, Jesse, about Alex Acosta, the secretary of labor, basically he's defending himself and saying now there's new evidence, but investigative reporters are saying, no, you actually had that evidence at the time.
WATTERS: He got a sweet heart deal. There's no if's, and, or but's about it. He knows so many people. He's so well-connected. He hangs out with princes, and ex-presidents, and billionaires. So the fix was in. He wasn't going to serve any really hard time. And it's sad because most people, if they did what he did, they'd be behind bars for many, many years.
PERINO: And the other thing is, Juan, that they apparently did not share the plea agreement with the victims, which is a normal practice, and that is another reason why there's controversy.
WILLIAMS: Right, the victims never got to speak, as the way I think of it. And, you know, that's why, you know, I don't want this to be interpreted in the way that we argue, and sometimes we just go left, right. But when the president doesn't say anything about the people who may have been victimized, you think, well --
PERINO: Well, Bill Clinton in his statement didn't say anything either.
WILLIAMS: Yeah. I just think these guys need to understand the damage that was done. And I appreciate your point that the young people, the young women who were hurt never got to have anything to say about what happened with Acosta -- with the Acosta plea deal with Epstein.
But the point -- the big point to be made here is that this is a guy, as Jesse said, this a rich man with great political connections, and guess what? They were protected -- he was protected, I think, to a fairly -- by his rich, powerful friends. And those rich, powerful friends, according to many reports, are now trembling that their names are going to be -- are going to come up in this New York case.
PERINO: One of the biggest mysteries of all of this, Greg, is how did Jeffrey Epstein become a millionaire in the first place? And you've been ask in a lot of different places and nobody knows.
GUTFELD: You know what's interesting is once you become a billionaire -- ah, he's a billionaire.
PERINO: Right.
GUTFELD: But they don't say, like, how did that happen? I guess, you know, all those esteem business journalist just kind of miss this story. God knows what they were chasing at the time. There's all these climate change stories to chase. And here you've got a guy who's got billions and billions of dollars and nobody knows where it came from. But, you know, thank God this story isn't being politicized.
(LAUGHTER)
GUTFELD: You know, Acosta -- I'm sure everybody -- everybody has asked him to resign knew who he was yesterday, right? They didn't.
PERINO: Well, they brought it up several times, and he's kind of had, like, nine lives on the issue. And on this tenth one, though --
GUTFELD: But I have to hand it to Donald Trump. If he hadn't beaten Hillary Clinton and she was in the White House, this story would be buried deeper than Jimmy Hoffa. Her absence made this story possible, the same way her absence made the Harvey Weinstein story possible, because if she was in the White House that story would have been spiked like one of Bill Cosby's drinks.
PAVLICH: Yes, I saw the other day that someone outside, can you imagine the story coming out with Hillary Clinton in the White House and the answer was, it wouldn't have come out.
GUTFELD: Yes.
PAVLICH: But they are asking now for other victims who maybe have not been part of the investigations going back to--
PERINO: They said that could be like over 100.
PAVLICH: Right. They're encouraging them now because he's behind bars and has the federal charges to come forward with more information, so that they can get justice for them and for the other victims.
On the political side of this, there is more pressure as you said. This is the 10th time essentially that he's been able to get away with this. This is not going to go away overnight. This is not something that is a controversy today and that the White House can go forward with that won't go away, because there will be a trial, there will be evidence that is presented and now that reporters are going to be in the courtroom, all of that is going to be and we have social media now as well whereas they didn't back when the plea deal was struck early on in the early 2000s.
So, it's going to be proliferated everywhere. And Acosta will certainly be dragged down into that mess and the administration will be as well. And I don't think that they want that to be part of their legacy. PERINO: I don't know. Do we have time for to play that other sound bite? So, James Patterson is an internationally known best-selling novelist, but he wrote a nonfiction book working with three investigators. He was on the daily briefing earlier. This is what he said about this whole issue of whether Alex Acosta had this evidence at the time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES PATTERSON, CO-AUTHOR, FILTHY RICH: In the book, we have the police interviews of them when they were kids and what happened and that's devastating. And the police had it all. PERINO: So, then you have to presume that Alex Acosta then the U.S. Attorney, now the Labor Secretary that he had it too.
PATTERSON: The rumors, yes, for sure. For sure, they had the evidence and that's why the police department was blown away when they heard and they heard like everybody else, it was a done deal that there was a deal. They were like, this is impossible. You can't have thrown away all this evidence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: Do you think it's - Jesse maybe just the last word to you that I imagine that Jeffrey Epstein having spent most of the year abroad, having a great time, never thought that it was going to come back to haunt him.
WATTERS: Well to the credit of James Patterson who had all these documents at his disposal and wrote this and the Miami Herald that did the investigative report, and then Mike Cernovich who filed the lawsuit which released these sealed documents, which then shamed basically the Southern District of New York and to act, to do something before all this came out.
PERINO: Well, we'll keep on top of it at the next hearing is on Monday. But next, why the next Democratic debate could be even wilder than the first ones. We have breaking information on that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PAVLICH: Welcome back. Remember, how CNN routinely bashes Donald Trump as the reality TV President. Well, now the network is planning to turn the 2020 Democratic primary into an even bigger circus by hosting a live lottery to pick which candidates will face off against each other in the second debates later this month. CNN is also taking heat for allowing Don Lemon to be one of the moderators, so Greg, Don Lemon guests. Don Lemon is now a middle of the road newsman.
GUTFELD: Very objective.
PAVLICH: He's not biased at all and should be asking questions.
GUTFELD: I understand. CNN is now morphing into the Game Show Network. They're going to have a lottery; they're going to bright lights and everything. You know why? I'll give you three choices to this metaphor.
PAVLICH: OK.
GUTFELD: Their ratings are falling faster than a safe and a Road Runner cartoons.
PAVLICH: That's a good one.
GUTFELD: Hair at a barbershop.
PAVLICH: Yes.
GUTFELD: Clumsy kids on a balance beam.
WATTERS: I like the safe.
PAVLICH: I like the safe.
GUTFELD: Yes, so that's what they're doing. I also have suggestions for there to figure out who should be in the debate. They should do a gender reveal and perhaps a wheel of fortune.
WATTERS: Greg.
GUTFELD: Or a dunk tank like we did on “The Five.” Remember when we did that.
PERINO: And I remember I dunked Bob.
GUTFELD: Yes, you dunked Bob.
PAVLICH: So, Dana going to do a live draw on July 18th before they're going to notify the candidates if they estimated--
PERINO: Well, look, I think that might be - I think that might be the most fair way to do it.
PAVLICH: Transparent.
PERINO: It's the most transparent because remember there was a question about how NBC was going to do it, but all the campaigns had a representative there and nobody complained about it. The only thing they did was to figure out which night, which group was going to go. But I think as TV executives they have the right to do that.
GUTFELD: They should have based it on race, like have them run, have them run a 100-yard dash.
PAVLICH: How is that based on race?
PERINO: Tulsi Gabbard would win.
PAVLICH: Oh! Race. All right, anyway--
WILLIAMS: Wait a minute, you're supposed to be hate less (ph) at the table.
WATTERS: You just played the race card.
PAVLICH: I'm so sorry. All right. Help me out.
WATTERS: Wow. All right.
PERINO: Based on race.
WATTERS: On Don Lemon being the moderator, I've met the guy, he seems like a nice guy but he's an opinion host.
PAVLICH: Yes.
WATTERS: He's not a straight shooter.
PERINO: So, as Rachel Maddow.
WATTERS: Yes. And I don't think that was appropriate.
GUTFELD: We ripped that too.
WATTERS: I would have had Tapper, Bash and Anderson Cooper. Anderson Cooper has got to be thinking like, what the heck.
GUTFELD: Yes.
WATTERS: Where am I at this whole thing.
PERINO: Probably busy. Like 20 shows he does.
PAVLICH: He's busy.
WATTERS: Maybe he's too busy--
GUTFELD: He's hiking.
WATTERS: And as far as the lottery thing goes, it's a gimmick. They lost about 20 percent of their primetime audience. Our primetime audience more than triples them. And I think their top-rated shows only ranked 25th. So, they're in deep, deep trouble especially after the Russia hoax was exposed.
So, my problem with the lottery is this, it's too consequential of a debate for the Democrats and for the American people to have it left up to chance. They should do it the way they did it last time with the top tier and the bottom tier. It's a good gimmick, but you risk not having two major dynamics. What if we don't get to see Kamala-Biden round two. What if we don't get to see Liz Warren go up against Joe this time, because remember she got shut out last time. If you leave it to chance, those two major things.
GUTFELD: Good point.
WATTERS: Didn't happen.
PERINO: It was by chance last time though. They didn't do bottom tier.
PAVLICH: They did run and draw.
WATTERS: Do you believe that?
PERINO: Do you believe that.
WILLIAMS: Here we go.
PAVLICH: All right, Juan.
WILLIAMS: Oh! My Gosh.
PAVLICH: What is the resident Democrat think about the way that they're handling the debate selection?
WILLIAMS: Well, one, I'm amazed at how much attention we're giving CNN. I don't know why, but anyway--
PAVLICH: Because they're watching right now.
WILLIAMS: Is that right? Yes, because who watches them. But I will say this, it's transparent, right. I think it's great. Let's see how you choose, right. Because NBC did it privately.
WATTERS: I know.
WILLIAMS: OK. So, what's wrong? If they see some ratings advantage in doing it, go for it. I have no problem with it. I think regardless, this is not the real issue. The real issue is the debate, showing up, performing well, being prepared Mr. Biden. That's what counts. And so, to me, this is all sideshow and entertainment, fine.
PAVLICH: So, Greg we're still going to have two nights of this.
GUTFELD: Yes.
PAVLICH: Depending on who gets on the first night, the second night. But we'll see if we get any good candidates going up against each other. They are changing some of the rules about like raising your hand.
PERINO: No hand raising.
PAVLICH: Yes, so maybe Joe Biden will actually have to look around and see what everyone else is doing--
GUTFELD: I am obviously still going through Swalwell withdrawal. But I like--
PAVLICH: We're at the end.
GUTFELD: I like that they that they brought in - they're bringing Tom Steyer has jumped in. He's like the Democrat version of Montgomery Burns.
PERINO: Can't buy your way on to the debate.
GUTFELD: He's got all this money in ways that every liberal would hate. You know from coal mines to Wall Street and--
PERINO: And that is going to make it right.
PAVLICH: But he loves the environment.
GUTFELD: Yes.
WILLIAMS: I bet you're worried though.
WATTERS: He looks like--
WILLIAMS: He is missing--
WATTERS: Is that--
WILLIAMS: No, you can't even tell him apart.
WATTERS: Look exactly alike.
WILLIAMS: Hey. You can't say that about these white people. Hey look, I'm telling you though Steyer wants to impeach him. This is going to be more abstention among Democrats for--
GUTFELD: Exact, yes. By the way, remember the last time we mocked a billionaire who ended the race.
WATTERS: Yes.
PAVLICH: He is the only non-politician. So, it's Yang, right.
PERINO: Yes. And Marianne, don't forget Marianne.
GUTFELD: Don't forget Marianne. I'll be right there, Mr. President. You can count on it and I will beat you with love.
PAVLICH: She is meeting around the - feel the love. All right. Up next, Instagram unveiling a controversial new tool that shames users into censoring their comments.
GUTFELD: Feel with love.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WILLIAMS: Instagram unveiling a new anti-bullying feature. It's aimed at flagging offensive comments. Instagram says, its technology will be able to recognize posts that could be hurtful and inappropriate. They will ask "are you sure you want to post this." That gives people time to think it over. Under pressure to address a perceived bullying problem, the Head of Instagram says, the company is making the changes even if it means losing users. Katie, what do you think?
PAVLICH: I mean in theory, it's a good idea, because teenagers who are on these social media applications, there is an increase in bullying and suicide as a result of bullying online. Right. And it's a lot easier for people to say something on the Internet when they're not in front of you and to your face than it is for - them to say it directly to you. But the way that we've seen these companies' moderate content is always strange. Right. So, they'll take away things that are actually not offensive or they'll target certain groups of people that aren't really bullies.
So, you know whatever. It's fine. But I just feel like--
PERINO: I think it's good, because it's a check on your impulse.
PAVLICH: Yes, I mean--
PERINO: It's like somebody is saying--
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: I say, well maybe you should wait and think about the tweets--
PAVLICH: The tweets you never sent.
GUTFELD: Who would do that.
PERINO: Post that. I just want Instagram to know that Jasper is not hate speech. That's the only thing I care about.
WILLIAMS: Well, Jesse. in fact, I pick up on Katie's point is like 60 percent of teenagers say they've been bullied, and we know about the suicides and the like. But the way that they're doing this is so interesting. It's not that there is someone watching, it's artificial intelligence. And so, if you write something like the word stupid, ugly, obnoxious then that's when Dana's point kicks in and it says, are you sure you want to do this.
WATTERS: Yes, you can definitely trust Big Tech.
WILLIAMS: Greg.
WATTERS: I think everybody here does. I find motivation by my cyber bullies.
GUTFELD: You do.
WATTERS: I do. Whenever - I don't usually read the comments section with my stuff but when I do on Instagram and Facebook, it's generally positive. But on Twitter, it's very mean. And I think to myself, they only hate me because they hate themselves. I told myself that, but I like it when they make fun of my physical appearance because it motivates me.
GUTFELD: Yes.
WATTERS: Like for instance sometimes they'll say, Jesse, you're having a horrible hair day and they'll send me a screen grab of me on “The Five” and then I'll look at it and be like, what did I do wrong and maybe the next day I'll change my hair a little bit or the other day someone said, Jesse, you're really letting yourself go, you need to start using skin products. So next day book myself a facial at the Four Seasons, boom done.
PERINO: The Four Season.
GUTFELD: Of course, it's not the Four Season.
PAVLICH: You should start wearing socks.
GUTFELD: He doesn't go to Duane Reade or Walgreens and buys like Nivea. He books himself a suite at the Four Seasons. I have to agree with you. I said this before that I didn't lose weight - when I started doing Red Eye, and people were calling me a fat sweaty pig, which qualifies as bullying I might add. I lost 20 pounds, 25 pounds. But I want - to your point, AI, this is an algorithm which means it's designed by people who are probably going to be decidedly liberal, because they're liberal in social media. So, if you say, let's say, I write. I can't be a friend with a Trump supporter, because he's just stupid white racist dune, that'll be fine. But if I say, I can't be friends with an AOC fan, because she's a hateful, racist, sexist ideologue. You know that will be ban.
PERINO: Are you sure you want to send that.
GUTFELD: Yes. So, bullying will then become in the eye of the algorithm and imagine this being applied during election, every one of Trump's tweets. If this was on Twitter would be seen as bullying and his entire presence.
WATTERS: Maybe like Trump, are you sure you want to send this.
GUTFELD: And he's like yes.
PAVLICH: Again.
GUTFELD: And to every young leftist sees everything as a micro aggression.
PAVLICH: Right.
GUTFELD: So that means even just like saying, what's up to a person who is short is a micro aggression. PAVLICH: Right.
WILLIAMS: By the way, there was news today that apparently the President can't block certain people on his Twitter account.
GUTFELD: Yes.
WILLIAMS: Jesse, this could be a problem.
WATTERS: What's that.
PERINO: Just mute them.
WILLIAMS: Just mute them?
GUTFELD: Yes.
WILLIAMS: Just mute them.
GUTFELD: I mean you Juan.
PAVLICH: I will say that I did get your last joke, what's up. On that joke, thanks.
WILLIAMS: By the way, Happy Birthday tomorrow.
PAVLICH: Oh! Thank you.
WILLIAMS: All right.
GUTFELD: See that's a micro aggression, you're commenting on her age Juan. You are - what if she doesn't want to have a Happy Birthday. What if Birthdays make her sad?
PAVLICH: Thank you for defending me, Greg.
PERINO: That was very nice.
GUTFELD: Well, that was sexist to me to defend you. You don't need defending. I apologize for another micro aggression. Why aren't there macro aggression.
WILLIAMS: Wait, you mean I can't even say, Happy Birthday.
GUTFELD: No, because you're assuming that there is a mood involved with her aging and--
WILLIAMS: Wait a minute, I didn't get--
PAVLICH: What is happening right now.
WILLIAMS: Let's end this segment now. One More Thing stay with us America. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WATTERS: Time now for One More Thing. Dana?
PERINO: I'm going to get go in here. This Thursday is a very special day. The 8th anniversary of “The Five” and we are going to be celebrating outside on the plaza. So, you don't want to miss that show because we got some fun shenanigans happening that day. I also want to wish Jesse Watters, a very Happy Birthday. Jesse, a very Happy Birthday.
WATTERS: Thank you.
PERINO: There is a cake that has been prepared.
WILLIAMS: Oh! My Gosh.
PERINO: Just for you.
WATTERS: Wow. And I mean this is--
GUTFELD: Oh! My God.
WATTERS: Wow.
PERINO: It is made by Maddie and Maddie's cake.
WATTERS: You've got to be kidding me.
PERINO: It's Maddie's cakes. That's where we got this cake.
WILLIAMS: Wow.
GUTFELD: Is that supposed to be him.
PERINO: That is him.
WATTERS: This is the greatest cake ever.
GUTFELD: That is not you, Jesse.
PERINO: They've got your ears perfectly.
WATTERS: I'm a little pale, but other than that, it's perfect.
GUTFELD: I mean it looks delicious. But I mean, you look like a robot version of me.
PERINO: It looks more realistic than that other doll you've got.
WATTERS: What part of my cake should we make Greg eat first.
WILLIAMS: Wait a second.
GUTFELD: The one I've been dreaming about.
WATTERS: Should I cut it? Where do I cut.
GUTFELD: Let me - the back of his head.
WATTERS: Johnny, you cut it.
WILLIAMS: I'll do it. You want me to do it.
WATTERS: Juan, you know what, you're holding the knife.
WILLIAMS: Johnny, come on Johnny.
PERINO: Johnny is blushing.
WILLIAMS: Get a slice right there.
GUTFELD: Take it from the hard part.
PAVLICH: Shoulder.
WILLIAMS: What about the throat, Johnny? The throat.
(CROSSTALK)
WATTERS: You want so many more.
PERINO: I have a special mom text. This was sent just to me for you.
WATTERS: OK.
PERINO: It's from Jesse's mom.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: 41 and what fun, the only text today is about the politics of celebration and the love we have for our son. Happy birthday Mom and Dad. And congratulations to “The Five.” Thank you.
WATTERS: Thank you, mom. Thank you, dad. That was very sweet.
GUTFELD: Yes.
PAVLICH: Wow.
GUTFELD: Can I have a fork.
WATTERS: All right.
WILLIAMS: Happy Birthday.
GUTFELD: There are no forks?
PAVLICH: There are no forks.
WATTERS: All right, Johnny get out of the show.
WILLIAMS: Here we go.
PERINO: It's Maddie, Maddie's cake.
WATTERS: All right. My One More Thing, here we go. Jesse's office news. OK. It's not just a chair in the office. We have a bonsai tree in the office. Look how beautiful and peaceful it is looking out over the beautiful and busy streets of Manhattan.
PAVLICH: Are you guys happy for why you've got one?
WATTERS: Johnny got me the Bonsai tree. He broke it. But we're going to get another one in there. I saw it looked really nice behind the Trump-Tucker interview in Japan that I wanted one for my - there is Johnny piecing it back together. What a great guy.
PERINO: Wow, that was a great One More Thing.
WATTERS: Thank you.
GUTFELD: That's why you've got Bonsai because you saw it on Tucker's show?
WILLIAMS: No, the truth of this--
PERINO: Japan.
GUTFELD: You are the strangest person.
WILLIAMS: We were given free trees when we got our new offices and Johnny took his.
GUTFELD: Oh! Really?
WATTERS: And then it died.
GUTFELD: A tree thief and a tree killer.
WATTERS: That's right. Greg.
GUTFELD: All right, it's time for this. All right. I'm in between two Jesse. It's a Jesse sandwich.
WILLIAMS: No, it's a little more.
GUTFELD: There you go. It's not an animal, you know what this is? It's Superman putting his super can on Jesse's absurd. Every now and then I find somebody force him into Jesse's chair, in this case he's reading my book. Show the picture you creep. Never mind.
WATTERS: I like Diamond and Silk in my chair.
WILLIAMS: Gross. Oh! My God.
WATTERS: All right, Juan.
WILLIAMS: All right. So, you've heard of gender reveal parties. There's all the rage these days especially on social media. Well, this one takes the cake. Look at this. Look at this one. Yes. That car was supposed to do donuts while pumping out blue smoke indicating that a boy child was on the way, but the blue smoke soon turns black and the car, it blew up. Investigators released the video as a warning to folks not to copy this stupid stunt. The driver was fined a thousand dollars and had his license suspended for six months. Let's hope that future gender reveals aren't so exposed--
GUTFELD: And they are reproducing.
PAVLICH: Crazy. OK.
WATTERS: All right, Katie.
PAVLICH: Real quickly, there was a seagull found in the UK and it had a very interesting color. Look at that. They thought it was a crazy different species of bird. It turns out, it was a seagull who was covered in curry. So, he smells delicious, but he was sent to Tiggywinkles Wildlife Hospital where they washed him. And now he's back to his beautiful gray and white--
GUTFELD: I preferred him as orange, it's very Trump like.
PERINO: Yes, I mean--
WATTERS: Animals are great. Encourage Seagulls.
PAVLICH: Smell good.
WATTERS: Set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of “The Five.” The "Special Report" is up next. Bret.
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