Stirewalt: Press doesn't need conspiracy to take down Trump

This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," October 14, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MEGYN KELLY, HOST, "THE KELLY FILE":  Breaking tonight, five days until the final debate and Donald Trump trading fire with his accusers after two more women come forward with bombshell allegations.  

Welcome to THE KELLY FILE, everyone.  I'm Megyn Kelly.  Kristin Anderson and Summer Zervos are the latest to join a growing chorus of women.  Each of the two told her story today with Anderson talking to the Washington Post about an experience she claimed she had with Mr. Trump at a popular nightclub in the early 90s.  


KRISTIN ANDERSON, CLAIMS TRUMP GROPED HER IN MANHATTAN NIGHTCLUB:  The person on my right who unbeknownst to me at that time was Donald Trump. Put his hands up my skirt.  He did touch my vagina through my underwear. Absolutely.  

And I pushed the hand away and I've got up and I turned around.  And I see these eyebrows.  Very distinct eyebrows of Donald Trump.  And I got up and I moved and I continued to talk with my friends.  And they said, oh, that's Donald Trump, I was like, eww, he's gross.  He just put his hand up my
skirt. That's not okay.  And we all sort of brushed it off and moved on.   

KELLY:  The story from Summer Servos which came out today is more recent. It involves an alleged 2007 meet-up with Mr. Trump.  She described it as length during a press conference alongside Attorney Gloria Allred earlier today.  Here is some of what she said.   


SUMMER ZERVOS, FORMER APPRENTICE CONTESTANT:  I met Mr. Trump when I was a candidate on the "The Apprentice" in Season Five.  I had the utmost admiration for Mr. Trump that even after I was fired I continued to see him as a possible mentor and a potential employer.  In 2007 I was going to be in New York for social obligations.  I contacted Mr. Trump's office to see if he was available for lunch.  I was informed that he could not have lunch, but that he would like to meet me in his office.  

When I arrived he kissed me on the lips.  When I arrived, he kissed me on the lips.  I was surprised but felt that perhaps it was just his form of greeting.  We sat and spoke.  He was extremely complimentary.  He said he would love to have me work for him.  Mr. Trump said he would be coming to Los Angeles soon and he would contact me.  He then called again days later to let me know he was coming to Los Angeles.  He again called me after he had just landed in Los Angeles.  

He asked me to meet him that evening at the Beverly Hills Hotel and asked me where I would like to have dinner.  When I arrived his security guards greeted me at the hotel.  He walked with me to greet Mr. Trump.  I assumed we were going to a restaurant in the hotel.  Instead I was taken to a bungalow.  The security guard opened the door and I went in.  I was standing in the entryway.  To my left was a bedroom and I saw Mr. Trump's clothes on the bed.  I did not see him but he greeted me with hello in a sing song voice that sounded like he-loo.  I waited for about 15 minutes until Mr. Trump emerged.  

He had his suit on.  I stood up, and he came to me and started kissing me open mouth as he was pulling me towards him.  I walked away and I sat down in a chair.  He was on the left seat across from me and I made an attempt to conversation.  He then asked me to sit next to him.  I complied.  He then grabbed my shoulder and began kissing me again very aggressively and placed his hand on my breast.  I pulled back and walked to another part of the room.  He then walked up, grabbed my hand and walked me into the bedroom.  I walked out.  He then turned me around and said, let's lay down and watch some tele-tele.  He put me in an embrace and I tried to push him away.  

I pushed his chest to put space between us and I said come on, man, get real.  He repeated my words back to me.  Get real, as he began thrusting his genitals.  He tried to kiss me again with my hands on his chest and I said, dude you're tripping right now.  Attempting to make it clear I was not interested.  He said, what do you want?  And I said, I came to have dinner.  He said, okay.  We'll have dinner.  He paced around the room, he acted like he was bit angry.  Dinner was delivered to the bungalow.  When dinner arrived he asked me to wait in a small room.  

I felt that he did not want the waiter to see me.  After the table was set, he beckoned me to come out.  We shared a club sandwich.  The conversation then focused on the fact that I had a mortgage on my home which I told him was in good standing.  He then abruptly said he was tired and that he needed to go to bed and ended the conversation.  


KELLY:  Well, this makes eight women now who claim that Donald Trump harassed them.  Seven of them coming forward since Trump defended his behavior at the presidential debate just five days ago claiming he never has groped women.  Now for the second day in a row, the presidential candidate is offering an emphatic denial of the charges.   


DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE:  As you have seen, right now I am being viciously attacked with lies and smears.  It's a phony deal.  I have no idea who these women are.  These are lies being pushed by the media and the Clinton campaign to try and keep their grip on our country.  They are all false.  They're totally invented.  Fiction.  


KELLY:  Joining me now, David Wohl, attorney and Donald Trump supporter and Julie Roginsky, Democratic strategist and Fox News contributor.  

Good to see you both.  



KELLY:  David, you and I are both lawyers.  You still practice law.  I don't.  

WOHL:  But you still know your stuff, Megyn.   

KELLY:  The problem is, we don't know whether this is true and Donald Trump is being accused and tried in the court of public opinion.  And we can't really get -- we can't know what the truth is.  There's not going to be a judge or a jury to resolve this before November 8th.  But if what these women say is true, then we're not just dealing with a flawed presidential candidate, we're dealing with a sexual predator.  So, how are the American people to make sense of that in the next three and a half weeks?   

WOHL:  Well I would never stipulate that what they're saying is true, Megyn.  Ms. Anderson, for example, this happened she says 24 years ago. She said it may have been at the China club.  She's not sure exactly if it was there or somewhere else.  This is the full interview.  She says she doesn't remember who she was with.  There were no witnesses.  Something that traumatic which she describes, Megyn, is a felony digital penetration

KELLY:  She didn't say penetration.   

WOHL:  Exactly.  Well, she said, OK, touching, this is close enough.  I mean, it's a sexual battery.  It's a felony.  And she won't remember who she's with.  She won't remember which club she's at.   

KELLY:  You don't know that.   

WOHL:  Megyn, second, Ms. Zervos, by the way, she was reading directly from a script.  It looks like she was reading a book.  Hard to imagine there's a lot of credibility when she reads directly from the script.  

KELLY:  Come on, David.  

WOHL:  Because Megyn, why don't she just speak from the -- why can't she just tell the story like she is in a witness stand?

KELLY:  Because she was nervous and she wanted to get it right.  Because she was nervous and she wanted to get it right.  The stakes are very high.   

WOHL:  Well, Megyn, couple that.  Couple that with the WikiLeaks released today of communications between the Democratic National Committee -- Megyn.   

KELLY:  We're going to get to that.   

WOHL:  Several operatives.  That's fine.  Okay.  It's just hard to imagine much credibility, Megyn.  I've represented people for 27 years who have been charged falsely with allegations like this.  

KELLY:  Uh-hm.

WOHL:  You would be stunned at the frequency of which people are charged with embellishments, with completely false allegations, with half-truths, cases are dismissed, cased are never filed.  It is shocking.   

KELLY:  That is true.  Julie, what he just said is true.  I mean, women do make false claims.  And we've seen that over and over again.  We look at the Duke rape case.  Right?  And the thing, what happened at UVA.  I mean, they can go a lot further than these women have gone in the claims.  But Donald Trump was the one who first told us he does this to women, grab them by -- right?  


KELLY:  Like he's the one who said it.  And just kiss them without even asking.  And now one by one these women have come forward from decades ago, I mean, every decade is covered of his adulthood saying me too, me too, me too in great detail.  And if this is an orchestrated smear, it's one hell
of an orchestrated smear.   

ROGINSKY:  Well, yes.  And let's put aside the fact that this smear may not be true and Donald Trump deserves the presumption of innocence.  What was most startling to me is not, this women are coming out now, because let us even assume that the system orchestrated smear which is hard to believe but let's -- that it is.  What was interesting me to me is Donald Trump's reaction today, to these allegations, essentially he was saying, some of these women are not hot enough.  

KELLY:  We have that sound.  Let's play it for the audience so they know what we're talking about.   


TRUMP:  Take a look.  You take a look.  Look at her, look at her words. You tell me what you think.  I don't think so.  When you look at that horrible woman last night, you said, I don't think so.  I don't think so.  

I was sitting with him on an airplane and he went after me on the plane. Yes, I'm going to go after you.  Believe me.  She would not be my first choice, that I can tell you.   


KELLY:  Go ahead, Julie.   

ROGINSKY:  As I said, let's put aside these allegations and let's just take him at his words.  Do you have to be a super model to be sexually harassed or assaulted?  Is that where we are that Donald Trump is basically saying that unless you're Claudia Shiver or somebody of that level that women would never get assaulted by anybody because they're simply not hot enough to be assaulted.  

I mean, you know, you know, that is where I think women have trouble relating to anything that he's saying.  Because again, even if you'd give him the presumption of innocence, his words are so damning.  They're so offensive.  They're so viscerally insulting that there's not much else to say about these allegations other than he dug his own hole deeper and deeper today by making the comments that he made.  

KELLY:  Why is he talking about the looks of the women involved, David?

WOHL:  Well, when you hit Mr. Trump with a lie, with a slanderous libelous allegation like this woman did and that's his position, then he's going to hit back twice as hard, Megyn and he doesn't hold back.  

KELLY:  By calling you ugly.  That's the way he's going to handle it.  

WOHL:  Well, you know what?  Compare what she said about what he did to what he said to her.  There's no real comparison.  Yes, it was kind of a teenage remark.  I'd say, I wouldn't counsel him to talk like that.  But that is who he is.  He will hit you back twice as hard when you hit him with a non-truth, of an untruthful allegation.  Which that is his position. And so, all bets are off.   

KELLY:  Does it give you any pause.  I mean, because as I said at the top, we don't know which is true.  One of these two things is true.  Either he has been very unfairly accused or he is a predator.  Does it concern you at all that option two is still in play?

WOHL:  No because I've met him.  I know this man.  I've talked to him. I've seen him interact with children.  

KELLY:  You wouldn't know the strain of him.  

WOHL:  He's a wonderful good man, Megyn.  I wouldn't know the strain, you know everybody can have skeletons in their closet, Megyn.  

KELLY:  Generally the sexual predators don't do to their guy friends.

WOHL:  I'm not finding it.  I'm not finding it.  I know his character.  And the character of someone who does this is not Donald Trump's character.   

ROGINSKY:  May I say something about this?  I grew up in the 1980s with Dr. Cliff Huxtable, the beloved dad of all of America.  And look at where Bill Cosby is today with his allegations.  So, you knowing somebody and leading them man to man is not exactly experience, we should note.  


ROGINSKY:  Secondly, let me just make another point.  

KELLY:  Go ahead, quickly.

ROGINSKY:  The other point I want to make is, listen, insulting a woman's looks, we're not 12 years old.  You know, I've been insulted, Megyn, I'm sure you've been insulted.  Insulting our looks is not something that's not going to make us curl up in a ball and make us cry.  That is where he's coming back and hitting twice as hard.  That is a damn bad defense I have to say.  

KELLY:  Uh-hm.

ROGINSKY:  I mean, what is that other than a schoolyard taunt that doesn't work on adult women.  

KELLY:  Okay.

ROGINSKY:  That's ridiculous.   

KELLY:  Listen, having said all that, listen, you have to keep in mind that he has no time to defend himself.  He's out there trying to run a presidential campaign and he has been placed in an impossible situation.  
Who placed him there?  Was it him and his own behavior or somebody else?   

WOHL:  Megyn, the good news is on Wednesday, Chris Wallace is going to be a legitimate debate moderator.  I can't wait.   

KELLY:  Yes.  We're looking forward to that.  Thank you both.  

ROGINSKY:  Thanks.

WOHL:  Thank you, Megyn.  

KELLY:  A couple of days ago in a fiery column on, a young woman by the name of Ying Ma defended Donald Trump declaring herself an unabashed fan of the Republican nominee.  She wrote, quote, "Strangers and friends alike have wondered how a highly educated Chinese American woman could possibly support a man widely condemned as racist, sexist, misogynistic, xenophobic and Islamaphobic.  It is not that complicated, really.  I like the candidate and what he stands for.  And I reject the character propagated by the mainstream media and his opponents."  

With me now, Ying Ma who is also a deputy director of the Committee for American Sovereignty, a pro-Trump Super Pac.  Ying, good to see you.  Thank you for being here tonight.   

as well.   

KELLY:  Let's start there, right?  Because I think a lot of women out there are saying, how could any woman support him at this point when you see the number women coming forward and accusing him?  And we'll just start there and ask you that.   

MA:  Sure.  Well, Megyn, I think the allegations of sexual assault are very serious, they're very disturbing at this point.  I know as much as you know, which is what we hear and see in the press.  And Mr. Trump obviously has denied all charges categorically.  So, we simply don't know exactly what went on.  Obviously I don't deny that they are very disturbing allegations, but I support Donald Trump.  And when I wrote that column I listed all the reasons why I support him.  There are very serious issues that this country faces, we've got a lot of challenges and I believe he is the man who would be --  

KELLY:  Explain that.  Yes.  Because you wrote this sort of before the sexual assault allegations were coming out.   

MA:  Indeed.  Indeed.   

KELLY:  But, but there was still a lot of controversial stuff that he had done and said prior to that, and you still said, this is not a deal breaker for me.  Explain why.   

MA:  Sure.  Well, let me start with all of the controversial stuff that he's said and done.  I think that from my point of view just because, just because somebody said controversial things doesn't disqualify him.  Though, the left has sort of suffocated our public debate and our private discourse for a very long time.  That, you know, you're allowed to say certain things about women, about minorities, about religious groups and nobody can even have an honest conversation any more.  

And I think one of the reasons why Donald Trump has resonated with so many Americans is that he's considered to be an authentic person who is willing to tell the truth.  A lot of times he says things that are very different from what other politicians would say but the American people understand that he's speaking from the heart.  And that's actually one of the reasons why he has tremendous appeal.  And so one of the main reasons I like him is he is politically incorrect.  Just because I'm a woman, just because I am a minority, just because I'm an immigrant, does not mean that I need the left to coddle me the way that it preaches.   

KELLY:  Ying, let me ask you.  You know, if ten more women came forward between now and November 8, would it change your view of him?   

MA:  I think these are very serious allegations, Megyn.  I don't deny that at all.  But let me also say that -- let me also say that even though the media has covered this so much, wall-to-wall coverage in the last few days. I don't remember CNN, NBC, ABC, ever interviewing any of the victims who alleged that Bill Clinton assaulted them.  

KELLY:  Uh-hm.

MA:  I don't remember ABC interviewing Juanita Broaddrick.  

KELLY:  Some have said today, I will say this, some have said that they asked and were refused right here on this program.  We interviewed Kathleen Willey, and we have that.  But Ying, what is the name of your book? Because it sounded very interesting?  

MA:  The name of the book is "Chinese Girl in the Ghetto" and it talks about my family's journey from communist China to inner-city Oakland, California.  

KELLY:  And pulling yourself up and relying on yourself --   


MA:  Yes.  

KELLY:  It's the message that resonates with everybody.  I have to run. Because we have a tight show tonight but it's great to see you.  

MA:  Thank you so much.   

KELLY:  So, we also have a new bombshell from WikiLeaks tonight involving the Clinton campaign and its connection to some very ugly questions about President Obama, his faith and his drug use.  Have you heard about this?

Plus, new revelations in an alleged leak of debate questions.  We'll dig into exactly how a copy of the question asked by Roland Martin ended up in the hands of Donna Brazile who was advising the Democrats.  

Plus, Donald Trump today called out a Mexican billionaire accusing him of orchestrating the media attacks against him.  Chris Stirewalt and Howie Kurtz are next on that.  Don't go away.   


TRUMP:  Reporters at "The New York Times" they're not journalists.  They're corporate lobbyists for Carlos Slim and for Hillary Clinton.  We are not going to let it happen where they decide the outcome of our elections.  


KELLY:  Breaking tonight, new reaction as Donald Trump takes criticism of the media to a whole new level claiming to be the victim of a conspiracy involving a Mexican billionaire, Hillary Clinton and "The New York Times." Watch.   


TRUMP:  No paper is more corrupt than the failing The New York Times. The largest shareholder in the Times is Carlos Slim.  Now, Carlos Slim as you know comes from Mexico.  He's given many millions of dollars to the Clintons and their initiatives.  Reporters at The New York Times, they're not journalists.  They are corporate lobbyists for Carlos Slim and for Hillary Clinton.  We are not going to let it happen where they decide the outcome of our elections.  


KELLY:  And it's not just "The New York Times" feeling the heat.  The crowd at some Trump rallies have begun yelling at reporters, even more so than normal.  In fact, police in one city had to monitor the press motorcade after hearing chants like this.   


TRUMP:  They are so dishonest --   



KELLY:  They're chanting "CNN sucks."  Here now, Chris Stirewalt, co-host of "Perino & Stirewalt."  And Howie Kurtz, host of "MediaBuzz."  I mean, listen, they've been coming after the media, you know from team Trump for months now.  It does seem to be reaching a fever pitch, though -- Chris.   

CHRIS STIREWALT, FOX NEWS CO-HOST, "PERINO AND STIREWALT":  And now there's a Mexican, too.  So you've got it all.  I don't know why you would need -- if there was a conspiracy, let's say there was a conspiracy that as Trump says, bankers, and a global elite, and this Mexican billionaire and Hillary Clinton are all part of this -- to defeat Donald Trump.  Why is he helping them so much?  Why does he help them every day?  Why does he go on the campaign trail and say that the women that accuse him of sexual assault were too ugly.  

Why does he go on the campaign trail and make, in an aside when he's defending himself on sexual assault, does he stop and say, by the way, I don't think that Hillary Clinton is attractive.  It doesn't take a conspiracy to defeat somebody who is defeating himself every day.  I do not understand it.   

KELLY:  Uh-hm.  Uh-hm.  By the way, do we have that sound bite on Hillary? We had that cued up just a bit ago.  Do you guys have that?  Okay.  We're going to get it.  Howie, it's to the points now where there is swastika signs showing up about the press at the Trump rallies.  The committee to protect journalists has condemned Trump now, saying, like this is too far. There is -- I get it, the media we're easy to hate but there is a First Amendment and what we do actually is important.   

HOWIE KURTZ, FOX NEWS HOST, "MEDIABUZZ":  Yes.  And clearly Trump is whipping up a lot of sentiment among his base against the media.  Look, it is fair for Donald Trump to question whether this is media overkill.  There is virtually no other campaign story right now.  But there is zero evidence that Carlos Slim because he owns a bunch of stock has anything to do with the editorial decisions of The New York Times. There is zero evidence of coordination among the different news organization --  

KELLY:  Doesn't seem to matter anymore.   

KURTZ:  Excuse me?

KELLY:  That doesn't seem to matter anymore.  Right?  I mean, this is the year you can say anything.   

KURTZ:  Well, yes.  But I'm trying to provide a reality check here.  And the fact is, these women, we don't know whether they're telling the truth or not.  As you said earlier.  But they're going on the record, they're risking their reputations.  And for Trump to be denouncing this media as part of a smear campaign, what it does is it really pleases his base but I don't know where it's adding any more votes to his column.   

KELLY:  Uh-hm.  Here's the sound bite that we were referencing earlier. Listen.


TRUMP:  I'm standing at my podium and she walks in front of me, right?  She walks in front of me.  You know?  And when she walked in front of me, believe me, I wasn't impressed.   


STIREWALT:  Don't do it.   

KELLY:  I mean, constantly, constantly.  He called Carly Fiorina unattractive and then he tried to fix it by saying she's beautiful.  Which is like, just stop commenting on her looks.  

STIREWALT:  Well, and the other thing is, it's not inexplicable how -- whether you think the allegations are true,  whether you think they're false, whether you think the media overdoes it, quit helping -- if you think the press is rigged, quit helping the rigged press.  If that's really what you believe that it's a conspiracy against you, stop helping.   

KELLY:  I mean, CNN is going wall to wall on the Trump allegations.  I mean, they are going wall to wall.  I mean, every single person is getting half an hour, you know, uninterrupted.  And it's a little discomforting. These women deserve to have their say and this is a real story.  I mean, this is a real story.  But fact-checking it in, you know, 12 hours-time has posed some challenges.  Let's move on.  

Howie, I defended Donna Brazile, I defended CNN saying, I cannot imagine CNN ever sharing a debate question, a town hall question with the candidate prior to a debate.  It certainly looks like that did happen now though because now we've seen an e-mail that shows the exact question that Roland Martin asked Hillary Clinton at this town hall.  The exact one was shared with Donna Brazile before he asked it.  

KURTZ:  You know, Donna Brazile told me she was flabbergasted by these allegations but she couldn't explain why in her own e-mail to the Clinton campaign, she said I sometimes get the questions in advance.  CNN didn't give her the questions it turns out.  Roland Martin was partnering in this town hall.  Obviously did give this to CNN.  Even CNN isn't defending this anymore.  CNN anchor Jake Tapper says that this is horrifying and unethical and looks bad for everyone and it really underscores the risk of having one of your premier contributors.  Somebody was also the number two official in the Democratic Party.  So, to do that and give the questions in advance I think clearly is a stain on CNN which, you know, would never want this to

KELLY:  Well, and here's Jake Tapper to your point.  Listen.  


JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR:  My understanding is, there has been -- that the e-mail to Donna came from either Roland Martin or someone around Roland Martin.  So, it's horrifying to have us partner with that person and then they do something completely unethical and share it with Donna Brazile who then shares it with the Clinton campaign.  I condemn it in no uncertain terms.  It's awful.   


KELLY:  Chris, I'll give you the last word.   

STIREWALT:  I have no idea how Chris Wallace is going to vote in the election.  I have no idea.  I've known you for years, I have no idea how you're going to vote in the election.  I don't know how Bret Baier votes in the election.  That's why it's good to have journalists and not partisans running debates and acting as you the interlocutors when you these events.   

KELLY:  Uh-hm.  And think about that, even on the Republican side this year, the RNC tried to force news organizations to allow Republican pundit to join the debate teams, Fox News said, no.  And we were one of the only news organizations to refuse.  It's fraught with peril.  The situations fraught with perils as this proves.  Good to see you both.   

STIREWALT:  You bet.   

KURTZ:  Good to see you.

KELLY:  So, what happens if Donald Trump shows up to the final debate with kind of fire we have seen on the trail in the past two days?  Mark McKinnon and Larry Sabato have some thoughts on that, next.   

Plus, WikiLeaks has now released hacked e-mails about the Clinton campaign and its connection to some very ugly questions about Barack Obama, his faith and his drug use, next.  


HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE:  Well it beats me because there's not one shred of truth in what you've just read.     



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From the World Headquarters of Fox News, it's the "The Kelly File" with Megyn Kelly.

MEGYN KELLY, THE KELLY FILE HOST: Five days to the final debate and the Clinton campaign has now had to deal with more on a week of embarrassing daily revelations. Thanks to WikiLeaks. Today, we saw several more including a 2008 e-mail about possible ways to attack then Senator Barack Obama, including Senator Obama's past drug use and his late father's Muslim faith.

Here's the exact wording of some of the topics, including quote "Obama's note the emphasis on pronunciation," father was a Muslim and Obama grew group up among Muslims in the world's most populous Islamic country. Here they're considering whether he would be hit on this. And quote, "Obama described his former use of cocaine as using a little blow."

After today, learning that the Clinton camp was floating these ideas eight years ago, we went back to see what happened. What happened when Mrs. Clinton was asked about those nasty rumors about President Obama or then Senator Obama's faith. Here she is on "Meet the Press".


TIMOTHY JOHN RUSSERT, NBC NEWS' WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF AND THE MODERATOR OF MEET THE PRESS: We've seen Clinton surrogates trying to implant the false idea that Mr. Obama might be a Muslim and perhaps a drug dealer to boot. What is this all about?

HILLARY CLINTON, U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, beats me, because there's not one shred of truth in what you've just read, and I regret that because obviously a lot of people have been, you know, given information or an impression that is absolutely false.


KELLY: Wherever could they have gotten that impression from? Joining me now, Carl Higbie, a former Navy SEAL and spokesman for the Great America PAC and Richard Fowler, a Fox News contributor and senior fellow with the New Leaders Council. Wow. Can - where, Carl .



KELLY:  . where could they have gotten the impression that he -- me might be a Muslim.


. or might be a drug dealer? Oh, wait .


KELLY: . Paul Begala (ph) is already testing it.

HIGBIE: Yeah. Well, I mean, this is -- this is an increased narrative that we're seeing come out of the Hillary Clinton campaign. You've seen needy Latinos, you've seen, you know, Muslim faith, the Persia (ph), Catholic faith. They're attacking Donald Trump for being a racist and a bigot. But now, you see the inner workings of the Clinton campaigns for these releases, and surprise, surprise, not only is Hillary Clinton going back on herself and flip-flopping once again, but we're seeing -- we're seeing the same stuff that she's criticizing others for.

KELLY: You know, Richard, some say about Donald Trump, his biggest flaw is he shows you all of his flaws. He's open about his flaws. I mean, that may be true and she may be just as lot (ph) he is, but she hides it better. These WikiLeaks are showing us a different kind of character in the people she surrounds herself with. They are talking about testing how -- where -- how it's going to play that his dad was Muslim, and he was raised in a Muslim country, and then she's out there like, "It's horrible."

RICHARD FOWLER, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR AND SENIOR FELLOW WITH THE NEW LEADERS COUNCIL: Well, here's -- here's the thing, Megyn. Politics is a blood sport. So, in any tough primary, you're going to have opposition research. I've done opposition research binders (ph) before. I have had friends who do them. You do these binders, you test messaging just in case you need to go there. There's a break in case of emergency. Sometimes candidates break it. Sometimes they don't. When they don't break it, we don't talk about it. When they do break it, we talk about it, case in point.

In 2012, Newt Gingrich ran all of these crazy ads against Mitt Romney. A lot of the stuff was true. That came from an oppo (ph) research file where they tested the messaging, and they tested it out and they actually broke it and they used it.  So, this happens all of the time in campaigns. Does it speak--

KELLY: OK. So, what happens--


FOWLER: --to Hillary Clinton's integrity?

KELLY: --but then -- but the sound bite .


KELLY: We just played puts the lie to her behavior. And what we've seen in this WikiLeaks mails is, she admits she has to say one thing publicly and another thing privately, not that she has to, but that she chooses to, and what she has said privately is to dismiss Democratic supporters as needy Latinos and her campaign team has vicious attacks on Catholics, and we all know that they considered going after Bernie Sanders for his faith at the DNC level during this primary, now she's thinking about going after Barack Obama for his faith in 2008.

I mean, Carl, you could pardon the American public for not giving her the high ground.

HIGBIE: Absolutely, and this is indicative. She is criticizing Trump for far less and now you see this and it's like -- it's like--

FOWLER: Thinking (ph) about that--

HIGBIE: --what point does the American public say, Hillary Clinton is a liar and I don't want to vote for her. This is what people are voting against. They're tired of people flip-flopping, doing one thing behind closed doors, one thing publicly and then accomplishing nothing once they get elected.  This is why people are voting for Donald Trump.

KELLY: I will say this is what -- this is what Paul Begala says who is on the e-mail. He's now a CNN contributor but he -- he -- I think he's affiliated with the Super PAC that helps Democrats.  He writes every campaign and every PAC, tests political negatives, potential negatives against the candidate they support. That's all this was. He says, this is all about what was going to happen in the general election. In other words, they are trying to put it on, "Oh, whoever ran against Obama was going to have to hit Obama, so we, the Democrat, need to figure out what the vulnerabilities were." Richard.

FOWLER: That -- that's absolutely it, Megan. I want to add one of the point, and I think--

KELLY: Yeah.

FOWLER: --let's be very clear. What Hillary Clinton is doing was that every campaign does. What Donald Trump is doing is what I would call unconventional and straight out weird. He's attacked women, he's attacked African-Americans, he's attacked Latinos openly, publicly, unapologetically, not for political poll testing just because he thinks it's a good idea, and that's why these two things are different. Hillary Clinton did it for political--


KELLY: Well, she -- she had attacked.

FOWLER: --and I'm not saying she's right. I'm saying.


KELLY: She -- her people have attacked--

FOWLER: She did it for political motives.

KELLY: Latinos, the needy ones and Muslims.

FOWLER: Yeah, but that's not Hillary Clinton.

KELLY: But then she's done it privately. It's like -- that's it. Give it to all the people. She's around -- this is our campaign chairman on this e- mail.

FOWLER: This is -- but that was -- what she's campaigning on. Donald Trump being so bad about, but she's doing it herself. Yes, because he's doing it openly--

KELLY: It's not her.

FOWLER: --in public with veil.

KELLY: But it's her tough people. All right.

HIGBIE: Oh, that resource (ph) is public.

KELLY: I got to go. Good to see you both.

FOWLER: Thanks, Megyn.

HIGBIE: Good to see you, Megyn.

KELLY: Well, five days to the first ever Fox News moderated presidential debate. There are growing suggestions it could be the most dramatic showdown of the entire year. I mean, what is going to happen at this thing? Mark McKinnon has seen a lot of these, so is Larry Sabato. They are here next live.


MARK MCKINNON, POLITICAL ADVISOR, REFORM ADVOCATE, MEDIA COLUMNIST, AND TELEVISION PRODUCER: That means double down and he stayed on offense the whole night. He wants to show he's still in the ring, and he's to get -- and he can still swing.

JOHN HEILEMANN, CO-MANAGING EDITOR OF BLOOMBERG POLITICS, AN AMERICAN JOURNALIST FOR NEW YORK MAGAZINE: You know, I think he survives. I think he survives. But he can't win the presidency with 40 or 41 percent of the country. But people love him would have loved this debate for purpose (ph).




KELLY: Tonight, a sneak peek of what to expect from Wednesday's first ever Fox News Presidential Debate. If last Sunday's debate is any indication, our own Chris Wallace will be moderating two candidates on fire, of Clinton and Trump, ready to give it everything they've got at their final meeting before Election Day. Wow.

We checked in with our friends at Showtime's "The Circus" for an inside look at what the debates look like after the candidates have left the stage, and here's what "The Circus" found in the spin room last week. Watch.


MCKINNON: Katrina, your take on tonight.

KATRINA PIERSON, SPOKESWOMAN, TRUMP CAMPAIGN: It was different from last time because that first debate, he really was getting a feet wet and he made a promise to go after her record this time and he did.

JOEL BENENSON, SENIOR STRATEGIST, CLINTON CAMPAIGN: He came to be attacker. He tried to not promote (ph) his game and he failed.

COREY LEWANDOWSKI, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST:  I think there was [BEEP] lock down tonight. This is from quintessential Trump. He was excellent at the moment.



HANNITY: He came out strong, quite hard, why -- and was fair and strong and resolute. He's getting on substance (ph). He's great on everything. Probably too nice of this side and you know what, she took the gloves off, came for the gloves off, and it's backfired in the last two debates.

BRIAN FALLON, PRESS SECRETARY, CLINTON CAMPAIGN: I think it was aggressive in a way that he's trying to motivate his floor supporters there and probably Trump in the last 48 hours.

MARK HALPERIN, CO-MANAGING EDITOR OF BLOOMBERG POLITICS AND A SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST FOR MSNBC: So, if the Clinton doesn't out on Friday and Trump could come in prepared like that, good moments, much more preparation, I think he would have left here with some momentum. But the tape is still out there. Still an issue, he didn't really--


MCKINNON: Well, look, I mean, he's doubled down and he's stayed on offense, the whole night. He wants to show he's still in the ring and he's to get - he can still swing.

HEILEMANN: I think he survives. I think he survives but you can't win the presidency with 40 or 41 percent of the country, but people love him, would have loved this debate performance--


HEILEMANN: --but is it a gain in a single vote?


KELLY: Joining me now, the creator and host of that show, "The Circus" Mark McKinnon. He served as chief media advisor to President George W. Bush, and the director of UVA Center for Politics, Dr. Larry Sabato. Great to see you both. So, Mark, if -- who is so riveting to see those clips? I mean, do you think the tape just wiped out everything we saw at that debate?

MCKINNON: Oh, it secured everything and unfortunately, for Trump, it secured a lot of the bad news that was breaking on Hillary Clinton at the same time. All those e-mails, the paid speeches. So, I mean, this I was a great opportunity for him on offense and the tape to have obscured -- it just blocked out the sun, it's blocked out--


MCKINNON: --everything for.

KELLY: Larry, does the polling support that?

LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR OF UVA CENTER FOR POLITICS: Yeah, essentially. You know, real events make a difference in these polls. You know, most people have made up their mind, but basically you either enthuse your party base or you depress it. I think it's obvious who is depressed.

KELLY: Yes. Mark, you actually have been on these presidential campaigns. What would you say at this point if you were on the Trump campaign? What would you be telling the candidate?

MCKINNON: Well, I would have told him a different strategy in the last debate, but now that he's gone this direction, it's a -- the clear strategy that he's imploring right now is to burn the boats, just like the Vikings when they go and invade, they burn the boats so you can't retreat. His whole approach now is we're doubling down, tripling down all in and to just kind of blow up everything in -- inside and hope that he survives somehow.


MCKINNON: So, I think--

KELLY: Part?

MCKINNON:  --I think -- I think, he's like--

KELLY: Or do you feel like he just had no other options.


MCKINNON: But I think in the next debate their plan is that if she goes low, we go lower.

KELLY: Right.

MCKINNON: Now, she's just got to paddle very carefully--


MCKINNON: --and not .

KELLY: She's trying to stay above of it that's sure.

MCKINNON: Yeah, now. The -- here's what I would counsel both of them is the third debate is the last chance. This has been so negative. I remember like Ohio in 2004. It was so negative. This is an opportunity for either one of them to go real high, to go -- I mean, to really--


MCKINNON: --just brush this all away and really purport (ph) a positive powerful Reagan-like message.

KELLY: You're so cute. You thought 2004 was negative.

MCKINNON: Oh, come on.

KELLY: Isn't he adorable? He's -- he's adorable.


MCKINNON: At point (ph).


KELLY: Larry, the polling shows that whatever -- whoever Trump appealed to it, that last debate, it was not that core group of women to whom he needs to appeal if he wants to improve his numbers before November 8. The women are just not with him.

SABATO: Women aren't with him. A surprising number of suburban Republicans are holding out. Millennials, he' dead last really when you look at Clinton and Gary Johnson. He's got a lot of work to do just about everywhere and every time I look at the polling averages, Clinton is moving up a fraction of a point. And it adds up over time with 24 days to go.

KELLY: But what do you make of all of the -- I mean, the Trump crowd sizes are amazing. They are huge and she's got like four people at hers.

SABATO: Well, if you're asking me about crowd sizes.

KELLY: Yeah.

SABATO: I can give you plenty of anecdotes of losing candidates who told me they were going to win because despite the polls, they have enormous crowds. That includes everybody from George McGovern in 1972 to Mitt Romney in 2012.


SABATO: Crowds are great, you know. They are -- they are full of people who help you and go out and volunteer and all of the rest of it. But we're talking about an electorate of 135 million, Megyn, 135 million.


SABATO: Suddenly, those crowds don't seem very large, do they?

KELLY: I remember seeing it with Mitt Romney, too. It was amazing.

MCKINNON: Well. What she lacks in enthusiasm, she's got a big ground game investing a lot in the state turnout operations. And last report FTC (ph) report, Donald Trump had spent $400,000 in statewide turnout operations and $1.8 million on hats. So, we're going to test the hats right here.

KELLY: Wow, wow. Great to see you, Mark. You, too, Larry. Thank you.

SABATO: Thanks, Megyn.

KELLY: Up next, if you'll permit me, a personal moment.


KELLY: Well, my Nana Antoinette Francis Holzworth was a feisty little girl who came into this world on October 1, 1915. Last night at 101 years old Nana's journey here ended and a new one began. Nan grew up poor, the daughter of loving and hardworking parents. Her dad shoveled coal to support his family. She remembered the day they fist got electricity. Nan sitting in the living room as a small child flipping the light switch on and off, on and off, marveling at it.

Nana went on to marry a firearm, my Pop Pop, an Italian immigrant, who thought the sun rose and set around her. They had two kids, my mom and my uncle and then there were two spit firewomen in the family. Nana lived through two World Wars, the Great Depression, the Lindbergh kidnapping and the assassination of a U.S. President. She came into the world when women couldn't vote and went out as the country considers electing its first female president.

She was from a different time. One time, Pop Pop hurt himself fighting a fire. They could have sued but they didn't. And they wouldn't. Who would do that? Nana wondered many times. Things were different then. The greatest generation. Nan helped raise us, and while she gave us free range (ph), she was always watching. Even these days at 9:00 p.m., she would turn on "The Kelly File" and from her lady boy recliner, she would be watching.

"I can't understand a damn word you're saying," she would tell me, but I like to make sure you're OK. There's something deeply (ph) special about the love of a grandparent and their grandchildren. It's deeply unconditional. In Nana's eyes, we could do no wrong nor could our children, her treasures as she called them. We knew at her age that there wasn't much time left but that doesn't stop the pain or the loss we feel on saying good-bye.

To our viewers who have always been so kind with well wishes for Nana, U wanted to say a heartfelt thank you. And to leave you with this bit of a poem which for 31 years, since the day Pop Pop died, Nana kept on her bedside table.

Should you go first and I remain, one thing I'd had you do, walk slowly down that long lone path for soon I'll follow you. I'll want to know each step you take, that I may walk the same. For some day, down that lonely road, you'll hear me call your name.


KELLY: And we are very excited about the debate next week. We hope you'll keep it tuned right her to the Fox News Channel to watch that. We'll be live, "The Kelly File" from the West Coast beginning on Monday straight to the -- to the big event on Wednesday and look forward to sharing that with you.

You know, during the break just checked the Twitter feed and check Facebook feed, and so often we complain about the nasty messages on there and you've heard many anchors read about the mean tweets. It's not all bad. Nana, I thank you for all of the lovely messages that you're firing my way. They really are uplifting, and it's nights like this that you feel the love and the support of the viewers who I don't always see you but I see you on the streets and I know that we connect when we share the news whether it's dark or not, night after night, not just you and me but the people in my control room and the people in this room and the people in your living room at home. And we're glad you trust us in these moments and times like this.

Good night, everybody.


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