Published January 14, 2015
This is a partial transcript of The Big Story With John Gibson, May 5, 2004, that has been edited for clarity.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: Differences of view within the administration, sure. And we resolve those differences of view. But I know what the president wants and I know what his agenda is and he knows I'm working his agenda.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN GIBSON, HOST: Secretary of State Colin Powell (search) may see himself as a team player, but some of the power players within the administration might not seem to agree. Powell, according to a magazine piece, is tired of the "politics" he's had to endure and the rivalry with the Pentagon. And he will not be around for a second Bush term.
Fox News contributor Dick Morris (search), former adviser to President Clinton and author of the new book "Rewriting History," Dick, is Colin Powell on the way out the door?
DICK MORRIS, AUTHOR, "REWRITING HISTORY": Well, he certainly is on his way out the door. The question is, is he kicked or does he walk?
GIBSON: Why do you mean certainly? You don't think he is around for a second term?
MORRIS: No, he's always said he would only serve one term. I don't believe that there's a tremendous disagreement between him and the rest of the administration. I think that Bush is the quarterback and he sends power flanking out wide to the left and Rumsfeld wide to the right because he needs political options to cover himself. I don't think it really works that the policy is determined by this fight. What is an intriguing possibility to me, is if I were advising George Bush right now, I would tell him make Cheney your secretary of state and put Powell on your ticket. Because there is nothing that Bush can do - not one thing more he can do — to more dramatically affect this election than to break the demographic stranglehold the Democratic Party has. A Powell vice presidential candidacy would do that. And we could do that without hurting Cheney, because secretary of state is a promotion over VP.
GIBSON: Let's back up here a little bit a second. Explain to me what this game is that Powell seems to play, which is, saying in private or kind of off the record but within earshot of a magazine writer something like, I'm really upset they didn't tell me about this prison scandal was coming. And then out in public, being the very good soldier.
MORRIS: That's called the Kissinger game. At cocktail parties you talk about how you deplore the war in Vietnam and you deplore what Richard Nixon (search) is doing, but in public you say this is what we have to do. And I think that Powell is just following in Kissinger's line of what Kissinger did throughout the 1980s.
GIBSON: If Powell does that, though, how does that make him a good vice presidential candidate? Because he seems to be ...
MORRIS: Because he has preserved his credentials to flank to the left. And if he were a VP candidate, it would give Bush the option ...
GIBSON: But, Dick, you don't think he is really going to do this? That isn't' the MO of this administration?
MORRIS: No, this administration hangs on to its people until they die out of an incredible sense of loyalty, which is Bush's strength and his failing. Remember, his father hung on to Quayle all the way into the grave. Had he gotten rid of Quayle in '92, it would sent America that I am listening to you. And a lot of the insensitivity and remoteness wouldn't have dragged him down.
GIBSON: Do you think that Bush is in trouble and that he needs to do something like this Powell move?
MORRIS: Bush is in real trouble.
GIBSON: Real trouble? We are talking about Kerry as his competition.
MORRIS: Yes, we are, we are. First of all, in last night's tracking poll, Kerry is four ahead. That's because of the abuse scandal. But Bush is now at 50, Kerry is at 45. But the undecided vote always goes for the insurgent, even a loser like McGovern or Mondale get that undecided vote. So that really is a 50-50 race. That's one of the reasons I've been saying on the other side of the fence, you know, my bet with O'Reilly that he will have to pick Hillary for vice president.
GIBSON: You have a bet with O'Reilly in which you think Hillary will be on the Kerry ticket.
MORRIS: I think — yes. I believe that Bill is bringing out his book at the end of June ...
GIBSON: Bill Clinton?
MORRIS: Bill Clinton ... to create a perfect storm for Hillary as vice president, which is why I wrote in my book "Rewriting History "," which went on sale yesterday. That's a rebuttal to Hillary's living history. I think that Clinton could have published his book in November. It would have been a marvelous Christmas book. It — couldn't he have done it two months ago? He is doing it now because he wants to be all Clinton, all the time for the six weeks leading up to that convention.
GIBSON: But isn't the theory there that Bill Clinton is bringing out this book in the summer just to make sure John Kerry does not win?
MORRIS: That's plan B. Plan A would be that Kerry could win and his wife becomes the VP and gets a lock on the presidential nomination in 12. And don't think these guys don't have A and B planned.
GIBSON: All right, Fox News contributor ...
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