Rep. Ron DeSantis: Brennan's conduct has been a joke
White House revokes John Brennan's security clearance; Rep. Ron DeSantis reacts on 'The Ingraham Angle.'
This is a rush transcript from "The Ingraham Angle," August 15, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
LAURA INGRAHAM, HOST: Good evening. I'm Laura Ingraham and this is "The Ingraham Angle" from Washington, D.C. of course. We have a riveting show for you tonight. Would you want anything different? President Trump has revoked former CIA Chief John Brennan's security clearance and the media is in a complete freak out mode. Congressman Ron DeSantis joins us with a reaction.
We also have an exclusive with Senator Lindsey Graham on his very provocative and somewhat -- you know, I think it's controversial idea on how to clean up the FBI. And Raymond Arroyo will be here with a Hollywood example of false Me Too allegations and some all too credible ones out of Pennsylvania.
But first, the media versus Trump, that is the focus of tonight's "Angle"."
Remember when it was bad for local media to convey coordinated messages over the airwaves? You know, like when Sinclair Media asked local anchors at their stations to read the same promo scripts to describe their newscasts. They were derided by legacy media as Orwellian, Soviet-style propaganda, so it created local Stepford Wives. Oh, the outrage.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIAN STELTER, CNN ANCHOR: -- you get the idea there what's going on. All these anchors and all these markets were required to read these scripts, attacking fake news.
DAVID ZURAWIK, MEDIA CRITIC, BALTIMORE SUN: If you are centralizing a political message to however many, more than 200 stations I think it will be if they get the FCC approval for this, to 200 stations, you have one of the great political messaging machines in the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: So, it was an abuse of the media for Sinclair to air these homogenized promos and local markets. But when a legacy media coordinate messages across local markets, it is apparently no problem at all. Tomorrow, over 350 papers organized by "The Boston Globe" will print coordinated editorials to denounce the president for his fake news comments and media trash talk.
Sounds like one of the great political messaging machines in the entire world, if you ask me. Marjorie Pritchard of "The Boston Globe" told CNN, "We have some big newspapers, but the majority are from smaller markets, all enthusiastic about standing up to Trump's assault on journalism."
What we are witnessing is the full on politicization of the media. As Steve Bannon once said, the media have become the opposition party and that is a pity. I think it is ever since their disastrous misreading of the electorate in 2016, they have obsessively worked to prove themselves right.
In other words, on just about every issue, they paint the most insidious portrait possible of the president in order that later on they can say, see, we told you so, we were right. I think it is also utterly predictable. The better the economy gets, the more confident the American people are about their future, that more frantic than ever Trump press becomes.
It's a perverse, inverse relationship. And I've noticed something else. The more popular Trump becomes among African-Americans -- his numbers are as high as 36 percent according to Rasmussen -- the more desperate the scribblers are to tar him as racist. And of course they throw in xenophobic and misogynist for good measure.
But rather than cover how American lives are being transformed due to a booming economy and record-breaking employment figures, the media focus on self-created controversies like fabricated dossier claims.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC SHOW HOST: What was in the dossier was a spelled out, detailed allegation that there was a mutual operation underway here, that there was collaboration and coordination between the Trump campaign and the Russians.
CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC SHOW HOST: A day that began with clips of James Comey, former FBI director, all over television, telling ABC News that he cannot rule out infamous pee tape mentioned in the Steele dossier is real.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- the pee tape or whatever the heck it is has credibility.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Listen, that is exactly what Mueller is looking at, one of the things and so we'll find out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: False, and one of my personal faves that the media obsessed on, the breathless Melania is MIA speculation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STELTER: One thing that the president and the White House have been quite quiet about is Melania Trump and her status.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Staying behind at the White House it seems, First Lady Melania Trump. Public hasn't seen her in 23 days. Many wondering where she might be.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If the first lady or the person who is standing in for the first lady disappears, you want to know where she is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: The first lady was recovering from a fairly serious surgery. By the way, a lot of these journalists take up two weeks for, what, a colonoscopy. And now, we are caught up in the Omarosa obsession. That is wall-to-wall coverage of a woman lacking credibility, pushing specious claims complete with surreptitiously reported audio snippets.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KRISTEN WELKER, NBC WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Can you stand at the podium and guarantee American people they will never hear Donald Trump utter the "N" word on a recording in any context?
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: We already know that this president seems immune from even the broadest standards of decency we've had in common in the past. Another tape wouldn't change anything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People are at least prepared to believe a lot of the things that she is a saying about him and at least a couple of things have looked like they might be true based on some of these tapes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: A couple of things look like they might be true. Omarosa's string of charges have been refuted by nearly every party she quotes in her book, Frank Luntz, Katrina Pierson, and Lynne Patton who was her closest confidant at the White House who was on our show last night. They all dispute her claims.
And the president says the producer of "The Apprentice," Mark Burnett, also denies that there is any tape. But still the media happily gives Omarosa hours and hours and hours of air time. I think in their warped thinking, the woman America considers to be the ultimate mean girl helps advance the narrative for the media that Trump's a racist.
But once again, I think the media are misreading the American people. Here's the latest data. According to an NPR/PBS News Hour/Marist Poll -- that's a mouthful -- 71 percent of Americans have not very much or no confidence at all in the media compared to just 25 percent who have a great deal of confidence or quite a lot.
But the amazing thing is the media don't seem to care about what the consumers of news are shouting at them. Both the ratings and readership are down, whatever. We have a mission, that is to get Trump. Most had completely abandoned the idea of objectivity and are now essentially operating as full-time members of the resistance.
So, now that we've established all that, what lessons can the White House take from all of this? I realized it's tempting to swing at every pitch. But let's be real here, as Trump proved in the election, the media just aren't that influential anymore. So the president need not feel like he has to respond to their every utterance regardless of how vicious it is.
Combine the media's winning irrelevance with the Democrats' invisible agenda, and the president I think has a pretty sweet opportunity to actually expand his base before November. Now I know a lot of people are shaking their head, how can that be? Now I know he will be on the stump and critical races before November, but I think he should also take the time to visit places that Republicans have often ignored.
Mr. President, your agenda is working, so sell it everywhere. And listen to the people who are being fed a load of malarkey about what is in your heart and mind and show them what is really in your heart and mind. And yes, that means doing events exclusively for African-Americans and Latinos including in distressed communities, places like Chicago, where Democratic leaders have failed abysmally.
Show them a better alternative and celebrate the gains you have already won for them and all Americans. Too many Republicans never understand that you often win respect for just showing up. But of course, I don't expect the editorial writers to give you any credit for any outreach like that. But in a way, who cares? No one is reading them anyway. And that's "The Angle"."
Joining me now for reaction is Dave Bossi, a Fox News contributor who served as deputy manager of Trump's campaign and Richard Goodstein, a former advisor to Bill and Hillary Clinton. Richard.
RICHARD GOODSTEIN, FORMER ADVISOR TO THE CLINTONS: Well, where do you want to start first? The media or Omarosa? Let me talk about Omarosa for a second. You would like to think, Trump said, I'm going to hire the best people, these people would be experienced, have great ideas, really work hard, and work for the American people.
Instead, what he revealed was, the people that he keeps on are people who say good things about him who he later refers to as dogs and lowlifes. And the problem with that is what does that say to foreign leaders? You know, he doesn't just talk in a vacuum. People actually are kind of watching what he is saying and it just kind of -- and that Michael Cohen, Omarosa, god knows who else, are taping conversations with Trump.
What does that say about the kind of relationships that even his closest advisors have towards him and what trust they have in him? That's the problem. It's not what's on the tapes. It's what his reaction to the tapes say about him. I think
INGRAHAM: What do you think Susan Rice's performance on all those Sunday shows after Benghazi? What did that say to foreign --
GOODSTEIN: I think (ph) exactly what it says --
INGRAHAM: -- lots for this administration.
GOODSTEIN: I think -- I think if --
INGRAHAM: You want to talk about qualified people?
GOODSTEIN: Yes, I will.
INGRAHAM: Spying on Americans and unmasking people. You want to talk about qualified? She should never have been promoted to the U.N. after she went out and lied to the American public. She was not qualified or she was lying!
GOODSTEIN: Let me answer your question --
INGRAHAM: Omarosa should never have been hired. I agree.
GOODSTEIN: She said exactly what the intelligence community said. If she had deviated from it, then you would have had her head for good reasons.
INGRAHAM: Please. She would deviate from it? A goofy video causes a Benghazi attack? It's ridiculous. Terrorism -- everybody knew it was terrorism. Bossi.
DAVE BOSSI, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Look, yes. Obama had his share of bad folks working in his White House. Omarosa's big question, for me, the big question about Omarosa is not just what she has on tape that she's released, but what she has that she hasn't released. And I think that -- I would call for a congressional investigation into how she did this.
Did she use her personal phone? Did she use a White House phone? Was it secured or not secured? Where their enemies of this country who had access or could gain access to those recordings? This is a very dangerous precedent to be recording inside the situation room in the White House and Congress' oversight, in my opinion, this is a must do investigation.
GOODSTEIN: It's rare -- of course, I agree with David 100 percent.
INGRAHAM: She's an embarrassment. You're right. She never should have been hired.
GOODSTEIN: Those are presidential records incidentally. Did she respond to a subpoena that was give to the White House? It's interesting. Those are presidential records -- her tapes. We'll see whether they get (inaudible).
INGRAHAM: "Politico" reviewed the tapes and they said the tapes she provided, and they said, well, well they're kond of juicy, nothing about the president or his family. And so it's like she was out there like "I'm Omarosa, I'm going to tape you. Like. I never trust people who taped conversations to humiliate or who write memos to the file. Jim Comey, Omarosa, end of story.
GOODSTEIN: They're the --
INGHRAHAM: Memos -- let's talk about Brennan because everyone is hot and bothered by Brennan. And Richard, this is what Brennan said today about what Trump could be trying to do with the Russians at the Russian's behest. Let's watch.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
JOHN BRENNAN, FORMER DIRECTOR OF THE CIA: I am very concerned about the principle here. I am very concerned about what this might portend in terms of the revocations of other clearances and this is something that I believe that the press needs to shine a very bright spotlight on to make sure that this abuse -- and that's what I consider it, an abuse of power by Mr. Trump -- does not go without very close review and challenge.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: He mentioned about the Russians that was not, but -- so he's talking about the security clearance there. Trump has the unilateral authority to revoke his security clearance, right.
GOODSTEIN: Of course. Absolutely. Right, he does. And do I think John Brennan is going to be compromised in whatever he does in his life from this point on by not having a security clearance?
INGRAHAM: No. It doesn't matter.
INGRAHAM: No. I mean, he worked for presidents of both parties for decades. He was a resource that he's now not going to be able to give the United States.
BOSSI: But first he should be happy about it.
GOODSTEIN: The problem with pulling a security clearance is he's basically saying, you talk against me, and you're going to get -- your first amendment rights to free speech and free press, that is what all this -- that's what you talked about in your opening segment.
BOSSI: There are plenty of folks out in this country who are critical of this president, that the president doesn't have a problem with about whatever they say. But you can't be the leader of the resistance movement, the group of Americans that hate this country and this president, and still hold a security clearance.
GOODSTEIN: Well, I think --
BOSSI: You cannot do that --
GOODSTEIN: They can if you know what he knows about what the threats are from abroad. He is scared to death because of that.
BOSSI: This guy is a political hack. He's nothing more or less. He's a political hack who should be chairman of the DNC, not of a national security --
INGRAHAM: Yes, how can you tell the difference between like John Brennan and any host on MSNBC?
BOSSI: You can't.
INGRAHAM: So Nicole Wallace had him on today and she asked him, look, do you think that Trump could be beholden to a third-party other than the American people? And he's like, well, it could be the Russians but I don't know, and I don't know what Mueller -- he was like saying, "I don't know, I don't know, I don't know." And it was just -- it was the most rank speculation from a former CIA chief! It's just wrong. It is wrong.
GOODSTEIN: Because actually -- I think he knows a lot more than we know.
INGRAHAM: No, no, he doesn't. Listen to what Nicole Wallace tried to get him to say. And he was like, "Well, it could be but I don't know of anything but Mueller is looking into it." He had a big nothing and I'm telling you. It was hilarious.
I was watching it with a producer, I was like, what the heck did he just say? It didn't make any sense. But he's like -- he's like a pundit, that's fine. He can do that. But I think the CIA suffers greatly.
BOSSI: You don't need a security clearance to be a pundit.
INGRAHAM: You know what I think, aside from Brennan, all these security clearances should be temporary. There shouldn't be never-ending security clearance --
BOSSI: That's right. Look, Peter Strzok still has his security clearance. The president needs to go down --
INGRAHAM: Peter Strzok still has his whole security clearance?
BOSSI: That's what I understand. So, look, we need --
INGRAHAM: OK, that's what I heard as well tonight.
BOSSI: The president needs to go down that long list of folks who are out there across this country leading the resistance movement as enemy, in my opinion, what they have done is damaged this country's national security.
GOODSTEIN: My answer to that is, you've got people like Omarosa feeling (ph) the federal government. You've got people like John Brennan who have worked for decades --
BOSSI: (Inaudible).
GOODSTEIN: -- for multiple presidents. He worked for Bush, he worked for Reagan, come on. He worked --
INGRAHAM: Yes, during 9/11.
GOODSTEIN: OK. And my point is, that he's a resource, if you want to say you are cut loose, that's a price that the country pays. It's not a price that he's paying.
BOSSI: So we're grateful for his services and I'm glad he's gone.
INGRAHAM: I think he should -- everyone should have to re-apply for security clearances. Why should it be like a never ending security clearance? It's just a total scam.
BOSSI: And I'm glad the president stood up for the process of our national security today and took it.
INGRAHAM: He should go down the whole list, and it's not an enemy list.
BOSSI: It is. That's right.
INGRAHAM: It's people who -- you've moved on to something else, that's fine.
GOODSTEIN: The problem is it looks like an enemy list.
BOSSI: No.
GOODSTEIN: That's the way he's going about it. Michael Flynn, I think, still has security clearance, right? He has confessed to a felony.
BOSSI: When you are the leader of the resistance movement in this country, people in the streets being violent and burning down buildings, this is outrageous.
INGRAHAM: They love Brennan. You got to believe the Antifa people for now. They don't like Brennan, but for now he's an enemy of my enemy is a friend. So Antifa and (ph) Brennan right now.
GOODSTEIN: If he's going after Flynn -- strip Flynn, that is his skirts (ph) are clean, but he can't --
INGRAHAM: OK, take Flynn. I don't care.
GOODSTEIN: Fine. Exactly. But the fact that he can't do that shows that it is an --
BOSSI: That's not that he can't do it. He did one today.
INGRAHAM: All right. Don't tease us. We got to get more. We still have a few more days in the week. Guys, thanks so much.
And the intelligence community is generally apolitical as we said, but Brennan has been one of the president's harshest critics, regularly making appearances, media sounding more like a far left pundit of course, than a former spy chief. Joining me now, someone who has been very critical of Brennan, Congressman Ron DeSantis, the Republican nominee in Florida's gubernatorial election.
Congressman, is it fair to revoke a security clearance? I mean, John Brennan, the list of jobs, Congressman, he's had for the government, and he is just trying to protect the United States, don't you see, from perpetual Russian interference, from the puppet known as our current president. I mean, that's basically what he said today.
REP. RON DESANTIS, R-FLA.: Of course, he is just this great public servant. Please! First of all, he shouldn't have a security clearance even if he did do a good job and even if he had been apolitical, but his conduct I think has been a joke. I think it's damaged the intelligence community.
And his tenure as both the National Terrorism chief but then also at CIA was very unproductive and disastrous. He did not do a good job identifying ISIS as a rising threat, and of course, was somebody helping to facilitate the disastrous deal with Iran. So his performance wasn't good.
So I don't think he would be a guy you would even want to get advice from, even if he wasn't such a partisan hack. But the fact that he launches those wild accusations on twitter, it's just not conduct becoming of somebody who has been in those high positions.
INGRAHAM: Well, I have to say, a short while ago on -- this was on CNN, Anderson Cooper interviewed Michael Hayden about all of this, and he had this to say about Brennan's effectiveness.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL HAYDEN, FORMER CIA: It was personal and it was vindictive and frankly, I think it was an overall judgment that John was being somewhat effective. The White House just messaged the entire American intelligence community, if you stand up and say things that upset the president or with which he disagrees, he will punish you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: I first thought he was in a prison there. They actually sent a camera crew to Speed when I first thought he was in a prison there. They actually sent a camera crew to Dulles Airport. He is like on the way to vacation. That is how important it was for CNN to get -- but he said it's a sign that he was being somewhat effective.
At what? Undermining the president? What is he effective at? He lied to the -- Dianne Feinstein, the CIA spied on a senate committee, the computers of a senate committee. He lied about it. He should not have a security clearance just for that fact. Where is Dianne Feinstein when you need her help?
DESANTIS: Yes, I know. The thing is, this idea that the intelligence community, you are sending a message to them, it's not the role of the intelligence community, particularly people who are active now to be launching political attacks. They are supposed to be -- many of them are professional, but the idea that you are an activist as an intelligence official, it is not the type of intelligence that we want.
We want people who are apolitical and obviously we have seen in the whole fall out of this Russia thing. When you have people like Brennan, when you have people like Peter Strzok, when you have people like Andrew McCabe, who are behaving politically, you know, that really distorts some of the powers -- the use of some of the powers that the government has.
INGRAHAM: Congressman, on a separate issue, today Governor Andrew Cuomo from New York made a comment that made me stop in my tracks. As part of the Democrats, I think desire to turn out the vote, get people registered, oh, my god, (inaudible) and they are freaking out I think because they see the economy rising so high and they still have to create a sense of panic. But this is what he said. Let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOVERNOR ANDREW CUOMO, D-N.Y.: We are not going to make America great again. It was never that great. We have not reached greatness. We will reach greatness when every American is fully engaged.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: The president just tweeted out, "Can you believe that this is the governor of the highest taxed state in the United States, Andrew Cuomo having a total meltdown." He just literally tweeted that. Your reaction to that? He kind of tried to clarify and he apologized. Congressman, your reaction, really quick.
DESANTIS: Well, it's just absurd. I mean, you know, some of the great things that the United States has done -- we've done things that no other country has done. I think the country is a great country. I think we are in the right track now more so than we were the last eight years. New York is on the wrong track and people are fleeing his state because of his bad policies.
INGRAHAM: Congressman, thanks so much. And the FBI investigated Hillary Clinton and President Trump's campaign but who's going to investigate the FBI? Republican Senator Lindsey Graham has a bold idea. He joins us next with details.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
INGRAHAM: The White House isn't alone in its campaign to bring accountability to bad actors within the FBI and the intel community. And now key members of the senate are ramping up their own efforts to do so. Fox News correspondent Kristin Fisher is here on that, but she begins with more detail on the Brennan affair today. Kristin?
KRISTIN FISHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Laura. Well, President Trump has been threatening to do this for weeks but I think a few thought that he would actually do it. Even House Speaker Paul Ryan had initially dismissed this as in trolling people. But today, he did it. President Trump revoked the security clearance of former CIA director John Brennan.
Now Democrats, they have been using words like Nixonian, illegal, a gross abuse of power, but the White House press secretary says the president is well within its constitutional authority to do it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Mr. Brennan has recently leveraged his status as a former high-ranking official with access to highly sensitive information to make a series of unfounded and outrageous and allegations, wild outburst on the internet and television about this administration.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FISHER: And this may be only the beginning. The White House says it is considering taking similar action against people like James Comey and Susan Rice. So, here you have the White House potentially going after the security clearances of several former top national security and law enforcement officials.
At the same time, you have Republican Senator Lindsey Graham urging action against the entire Justice Department. He wants a special counsel to investigate why a DOJ official, Bruce Ohr, was allowed to investigate then candidate Trump while Ohr's wife worked for the opposition research firm that produced that now infamous dossier.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM, R-S.C.: These investigations against Trump were corrupt to the core. They gave Clinton a pass. Bruce Ohr was at least unethical. We need a special counsel to look at all things Department of Justice and FBI when it came to the Trump investigation, particularly the counterintelligence investigation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FISHER: And I should mention that Bruce Ohr was one of the people that the White House press secretary said was on the list of people that they are considering to potentially revoke a security clearance, Laura?
INGRAHAM: Kristin, thanks so much. And lo and behold, here -- do you see him on the (inaudible)? And you see him here, Lindsey Graham.
GRAHAM: I don't know you would but I agree with every word.
INGRAHAM: I don't know about that guy in the tape.
GRAHAM: I got to go.
INGRAHAM: So, tell us about Brennan. I mean, you are on board with this idea. I think you were one of the people who also thought it was a pretty good idea.
GRAHAM: Well, here's what I think. You can be the former CIA director or critic of the president. You just can't leave the resistance movement at the same time. If you look at CIA policy about how a former director should act, he is well over the line.
INGRAHAM: Yeah, well, he has --
GRAHAM: They have actually a policy about this.
INGRAHAM: Well, he had a history of lying, of the senate investigation -- on that, about what he did with the senate staff. They were spying on the computers and has had lied about it and Dianne Feinstein found out about it.
GRAHAM: If this administration share anything with him as much as he hates them. He really thinks Trump is worse than every enemy we have, so I just think the way he's carried himself hurts the intelligence committee.
INGRAHAM: Let's talk about your idea for a special counsel to investigate the Justice Department.
GRAHAM: Yes.
INGRAHAM: How would that work and what are your grounds?
GRAHAM: Well, number one, I'm tired of getting on T.V. and telling you all the bad things. I want somebody who is not a politician. Let's put the shoe on the other foot. What do you think Democrats would be saying if a Republican -- if RNC hired a former British agent to go to Russia to get dirt on Clinton?
Do you think they would be wanting to look at whether or not there was a crime? If a FISA warrant was issued based on document prepared by a foreign agent hat is a bunch of political garbage? So, I am tired of telling everybody in the country how bad this is. Have somebody to do for the FBI and the FISA warrant process what Mueller is doing for Trump.
INGRAHAM: What would it entail and who would be subject to this review within -- you can't investigate the whole FBI, but there is a core within the FBI. Bruce Ohr, the fact that -- does he still have a security clearance? I mean, I guess he does because they're considering --
GRAHAM: The Clinton e-mail investigation was a joke.
INGRAHAM: From the beginning.
GRAHAM: They were in the tank. They had a bias against Trump and for Clinton and if you had done what she had done, we would not be talking here.
INGRAHAM: Would you still be a member of the (inaudible)?
GRAHAM: I would be court-martialed.
INGRAHAM: Right.
GRAHAM: There are people sitting in jail doing far less than her so I want somebody to look at how the Clinton e-mail investigation was conducted. Why it was dismissed and the FISA warrant -- every American should be concerned about the rule of law and I think the FISA warrant process was horribly abused and may be in a criminal fashion.
INGRAHAM: Could the judges who were sitting and reviewing that application for the search warrant --
GRAHAM: Right.
INGRAHAM: -- for the wiretap of Carter Page, is there any process within the FISA courts to review that again? I mean, if I were the judge and they didn't tell me that the opposition candidate -- not just an opposition -- but the candidate paid for that dossier, which was a critical part, if not the most critical part.
GRAHAM: So there's a footnote in there that is a reference that this guy may have political motives. They never told the court --
INGRAHAM: Of course not.
GRAHAM: -- that he was on the payroll of the DNC.
INGRAHAM: But what about that judge? What about the judges who --
GRAHAM: I would be really upset.
INGRAHAM: But couldn't -- I guess there is no way to go back and unwiretap somebody, but there should be like sanctions and there should be an ability to issue sanctions against of the Justice Department officials who signed off on this.
GRAHAM: Somebody has to watch those who watch us, and Mr. Horowitz is a good guy but he doesn't have the power of a prosecutor. The corruption at the Department of Justice and the FBI regarding the Clinton e-mail investigation, the early stages of the Trump-Russia investigation were corrupt to the core and I think somebody needs to look at it outside of politics.
If Mr. Rosenstein is watching, what more has to happen for you to be convinced that somebody outside your organization needs to look to make sure that we clean up the mess?
INGRAHAM: James Clapper tonight said our discussion of this, the constant criticism of FBI and intel is undermining those hallowed institutions. Let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES CLAPPER, FORMER U.S. DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: But I spent a good part of my life, 50 plus years, 34 of it in the military defending this country and its values and standards and institutions, which I feel, as do the others involved here, are under serious assault. And this is going to get worse before it gets better, I predict.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: So it's Trump's fault or Republicans fault for questioning how this whole investigation, how the special counsel was appointed, Comey set up with the whole thing -- you can't question it. If you question it, you are undermining the authority or integrity. What about the integrity undermined by them? That's outrageous.
GRAHAM: What bothers me is not one Democrat seems to be concerned that the people in charge of the Clinton email investigation clearly were in the tank for Clinton and hated Trump. Nobody seems to be concerned that a political document prepared by a political party using a foreign agent to go to a foreign country to get information on a political candidate was used to get a warrant. Nobody seems to be concerned about it. I have been in the military for 33 years. I love the FBI. I'm very concerned about what I have seen.
INGRAHAM: Senator, birth tourism in the United States, birthright citizenship, the president hasn't talked all that much about that. He did in the campaign.
GRAHAM: He should.
INGRAHAM: It's become a huge problem in this country. Ads in Russia, in China, we'll get you a U.S. passport, come here, have a baby, we'll put you up. We'll find you a doctor, we'll get you a passport made for your baby. Bingo, it's done. How does this get turned around?
GRAHAM: I think you need to change the laws. If you go to France and have a child, you are not a French citizen. But people abuse our laws. They actually get tourist visas close to the delivery date. They come to a resort with a maternity ward just to have the child in America.
INGRAHAM: We want to have you back to get into that further because I think it is a massive, massive scandal. Thank you so much, Senator Graham.
And the P.C. mob is tearing apart a new TV show's title, while the Catholic Church under fire after a damning, horrific report on abuse in Pennsylvania. That in our "Seen and Unseen" segment with Raymond Arroyo next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
INGRAHAM: It's time now for our "Seen and Unseen" segment, where we expose what's behind the big cultural stories of the day.
First, a new show on Bravo has the P.C. crowd so worked up they're about to smash their screens in rage, I tell you. For more, we are joined by FOX News contributor, "New York Times" bestselling author of the "Will Wilder" series, Raymond Arroyo. Tell us about this new Jerry O'Connell talk show. Why is the title so offensive?
RAYMOND ARROYO, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Jerry O'Connell, the film star, is a fan of Bravo's programming. This is a ploy to get men to watch Bravo.
INGRAHAM: Does he have a show on Bravo?
ARROYO: He's going to have a show. It's called "Real Men Watch Bravo," except there was a huge reaction to that. They said the title is misogynistic, homophobic. I don't quite understand how it's homophobic, but nonetheless, Jerry O'Connell and the producers of the show decided we are changing the title, and Jerry came out to explain why.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JERRY O'CONNELL, ACTOR: We change the title of the show. It's no longer the aforementioned title. It is now called "Bravo's Play-By-Play," and it's basically a panel of three of us and we sort of break down everything that happened that week on Bravo. It is sort of like a "SportsCenter" for Bravo highlights.
Bravo, it saved my marriage with my wife. It's our passion. It's what we talked about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ARROYO: I have news for Jerry. Men, real or otherwise, are not going to watch the "Shahs of Sunset" or the "Beverly Hills Housewives." We're not interested in that. If it hunts or there is a ball being thrown, we'll watch.
INGRAHAM: That's misogynistic, Raymond.
ARROYO: No, it's not misogynistic. Men like some programming, women like other things.
INGRAHAM: I've met Jerry O'Connell. He's actually a really nice guy.
ARROYO: OK, but you can't take women's programming. It is like trying to get men to watch Hallmark.
INGRAHAM: On Lifetime TV, there is always a woman pushing a man down the stairs or vice versa. Someone is always getting pushed down the stairs.
ARROYO: And men aren't watching that either.
INGRAHAM: Real men don't watch Bravo.
ARROYO: I've got to get to this other thing. Remember earlier this summer, we talked about Chris Hardwick, he's the host of AMC's "Talking Dead." He was removed from that show and his other talk show pulled from a schedule because of abuse allegations made against him by a former girlfriend. AMC did a thorough review. This week they returned him from the metaphorical dead to host "Talking Dead," and it was an emotional return. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS HARDWICK, TELEVISION HOST: I want to thank you, the "Walking Dead" community, for all the support to these last couple months. The show was not just a job to me. This is a vital part of my life, and this has been a sanctuary. These last seven years we've been here, this has been with me through good times and bad times, and I have so much gratitude to you, the fans. And I have said the following words a million times, countless times, and that I have never been more thankful that I am in this very moment to say to you, that I am Chris Hardwick and this is "Talking Dead."
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ARROYO: So what you are seeing here is a man who saw his career flash before his eyes. This was handled the right way. They did dismiss him from the show, they pulled the show from the schedule. But after a quick investigation, they returned him back --
INGRAHAM: Not everybody --
ARROYO: The allegations were not true.
INGRAHAM: Not everybody who is accused is guilty. That's the problem with some of these 20-year-old allegations. Some of them are, some of them aren't.
ARROYO: The Me Too rush to judgment I worry about it because you have guys like this who are innocent.
INGRAHAM: I confess, I have never heard of him in my life. I don't even recognize him. I have no idea who he is.
ARROYO: Now you have.
INGRAHAM: By the way, from false allegations of abuse come up to all too real ones. Raymond, you've covered the Vatican for decades now. Tell us about this grand jury report in Pennsylvania. This is devastating. You and I are both Catholics.
ARROYO: This is horrible. We'll put up this graphic. We are talking about 300 what the grand jury calls predator priests exposed in this report. Over 1,000 child victims. These cases spanned 70 years, remember, from 1947 to the present.
INGRAHAM: How was it all coming out now?
ARROYO: It's coming out now because the grand jury was charged with looking at all the denominations in Pennsylvania and doing a report and investigation of it. They decided to focus only on the Catholic Church but I don't quite understand, because when you look across denominations, there's kind of an equal --
INGRAHAM: And public schools.
ARROYO: Public schools, the protestant church --
INGRAHAM: Locker rooms.
ARROYO: But let's put that aside for a minute. This shows heinous disregard for victims, a callousness toward what these victims were going through. They covered up these offenses, they hid them, they reassigned, putting more kids in danger. This is unconscionable. Cardinal Wuerl is mentored in this. He was the bishop of Pittsburgh. He was interviewed this past week about his predecessor or successor -- predecessor, rather, Cardinal McCarrick. And they asked him, is this a crisis in the church? Listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARDINAL DONALD WUERL, ARCHBISHOP OF WASHINGTON: I don't think this is a massive, massive crisis. It was a terrible disappointment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For all of us, for you, for me. He was a friend to us.
WUERL: So we are saying now, well, what do we do in the future to see there's a mechanism so if somebody wants to say something about a bishop, they have a place to go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me ask another question. I think something that is emerging from all of this is the care of bishops before bishops. And I think that is something that has to be addressed, is how bishops care for their brother bishops, cardinals from their brother cardinals.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: That is Father Tom Rosica. He is a Vatican consultant on communications, worrying about bishops to bishops. What about the victims? Here's what needs to happen, Laura. We need an independent, lay run, forensic audit, a financial audit, of every diocese in the United States, and maybe the world. And then you need a lay panel, empowered by the Vatican of prosecutors, independent prosecutors, with canonical officials, cardinals, to investigate every diocese. They should make canonical referrals as well as criminal referrals. Clean house.
INGRAHAM: Clean out every last bishop and cardinal who knew about this and transferred people --
ARROYO: Or were a part of this.
INGRAHAM: I don't understand how the Cardinal Mahony is still rolling about the west coast, where there's a lot of people out there who, I'm telling you something --
ARROYO: There are a lot of questions that need to be asked, and Catholics are looking for blood.
INGRAHAM: And Wuerl saying this is not a crisis -- what? What are you talking about? We've got to explain this to our children, and this has got to be get cleaned up. I am livid about this.
ARROYO: This is as bad as I have seen it in 20 years, and Catholics want answers.
INGRAHAM: Raymond, thank you.
And one of America's most celebrated black athletes is now comparing the National Anthem, get this, to songs of slavery? Details after this.
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INGRAHAM: When the opportunity strikes the left and their celebrity brethren are happy to tarnish American symbols and American history in any way they can. Case in point, NBA champion, star Kareen Abdul Jabbar who is now comparing the U.S. National Anthem to songs of slavery. In a new column for the "Hollywood Reporter" he writes, quote, "To the slave owners singing slaves would drown out their own cruelty and oppression, clothe them in a coerced choir of decency. But it wasn't enough that the slaves had to sing. The had to sing their oppressors' feel-good songs. Currently the song being demanded is the National Anthem during football games."
Joining me now with reaction, Project 21 cochair Horace Cooper along with criminal defense attorney Anthony Tall. Great to see both of you. Let's start with you, Anthony. Help me with a connection here. I am having trouble making the connection from the National Anthem to the songs of slavery.
ANTHONY HALL, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, what he is saying is that generally, African-Americans slavery had to sing songs to kind of show that they are happy during their -- although they were oppressed and they were doing horrible labor jobs, and forced labor, they were doing forced labor - - so what he is saying is, he is comparing the National Anthem with --
INGRAHAM: Anthony, I get what he is doing. You are just restating what he says. My point is, NFL players are playing my favorite game, I love football, and they are getting paid fairly well, some cases millions of dollars, and they love the game. So they are not being oppressed, and I know there is a social justice causes, I get that. But slavery and football -- that -- it's just -- even if you love the celebrities and you - - I get that. But sometimes the left goes overboard. And the right does it, too. But you lose people by going there. And I think it is sad because Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is an incredible athlete, an incredible person, but I don't -- I just think you lose people with making those jumps.
TALL: I don't think he is going too far. I don't think is going too far. I think all he is saying is he's just comparing, you have a league where you have 99 percent white owners, and then you have the president demanding that they stand up. Regardless of how much money you make, if you feel as if you are being forced to do something that is reminding you of an oppressive past --
INGRAHAM: No, no, no. You don't have to play football. No one -- leave the game if you don't like what you're owners and your coaches are asking. Their coaches make them run suicides every day. They don't want that to mike to do that half the time either. I used to be in college sports.
TALL: AThey don't mind doing that.
INGRAHAM: You have to do -- there are rules, they signed a contract. Horace, go ahead.
HORACE COOPER, CO-CHAIR, PROJECT 21: The one percenters sitting out there on the field want us to believe that that their experience is the same as people who were held captive, kidnapped, brought to work, and forced, and not allowed to have any freedom, that that is the same, that when we honor our country with the National Anthem it is the same as when one percenters who are paid by the 0.0001 percent ask them not to offend the audience, that that is somehow in any way akin to slavery. What you do is you lose people. You make sure that the public doesn't want to watch football and that people don't join this particular crusade.
TALL: Horace, Horace, Horace, Horace, what are you talking about? Did you just hear LeBron James the other day say it doesn't matter how much money you have or who you are, when you are black in America, there is a feeling of being reminded that you are black. There is a feeling of being reminded --
COOPER: That is ridiculous! That is absolutely ridiculous!
TALL: So don't give me this about the one percent.
COOPER: That is absolutely ridiculous.
TALL: Don't give me this about this one percent.
COOPER: Because they are the one percent. Because they are the one percent.
TALL: It doesn't matter if they are the one percent! If they can't walk on the straight and feel dignified, it doesn't matter how much money they have.
COOPER: It absolutely matters. They are Americans, black, white, and brown, who suffer and who are deprived, and who do without, and those people aren't getting any of the attention.
TALL: Horace, Horace, Horace --
INGRAHAM: Guys, hold on, no one can hear either of you. So you are both making interesting points but no one can hear either of you.
I have to ask one question though. The piece, which is well written as a column, I might not agree with it but it is very well-crafted, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar mentions Frederick Douglass, of course, who is one of my absolute favorite historical figures. And he mentions him but then Frederick Douglass is the same person who frequently played "The Star- Spangled Banner" on his violin for his family. So he frequently played it on his violin for his grandchildren in the years after the war. He said in an 1871 speech at Arlington Cemetery, if "The Star-Spangled Banner" floats only over free American citizens in every corner of the land, and our country has before it a long and glorious career of justice, liberty, and civilization, we are indebted to the unselfish devotion of the noble army. I think using Frederick Douglass in the column is kind of misplaced. But go ahead.
TALL: Laura, Laura, this isn't a zero-sum game. You can be of any race in America, that is the beauty of America, and there's sometimes you can feel ashamed to sing the song. There are sometimes when black people are getting shot down on the street that you don't feel as if -- I'm talking about getting shot down by police -- that you don't feel like that National Anthem has risen to its standard. Now obviously during the civil rights movement --
INGRAHAM: Martin Luther King marched to the American flag.
TALL: -- lived up to our Constitution. Those were great times that we want to sing the National Anthem. This isn't a zero-sum game.
INGRAHAM: Alveda king, we talked to today, she couldn't join us tonight, but Alveda said, her uncle was extremely patriotic, and all the marches you see with the American flag is always there. He always insisted that it be there. That was her point today. Horace?
TALL: I agree.
COOPER: Laura, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and these multimillionaire, coddled individuals that rather than using --
TALL: Why are you talking about the money?
COOPER: Let me finish. Rather than using their time constructively to pursue whatever social justice causes they want, have decided that they hate this country so much that they will offend it with the National Anthem is played.
TALL: That's not what they're saying.
COOPER: That will lose. That is not going to persuade.
INGRAHAM: I don't think they hate the country. I really don't think they hate the country.
COOPER: This is hateful behavior.
INGRAHAM: I don't think they hate the country. I think they really, really got it in their minds that the police are unfair to African- Americans.
COOPER: If you slap your spouse and you say I love them, people -- if or when the National Anthem is played you act this way --
TALL: Laura. Laura.
INGRAHAM: Guy's we've got to go. We are way over. I think it would be nice if everyone stood for the Anthem and have a debate off the field, I think that is always better. But great segment.
A Christian baker, by the way, is now the target of a political vendetta. How the legal profession is being weaponized against Christian Americans, next.
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INGRAHAM: Remember Jack Phillips, the Christian baker who faced legal action for refusing to break that same-sex wedding cake? He won a major case of the Supreme Court two months ago, but get this, Colorado Civil Rights commission has once again ruled that he violated the law when he refused to bake a cake for a transgender woman celebrating the seventh anniversary of her gender transition. In response, Phillips is suing top Colorado officials including Governor John Hickenlooper.
Joining me now from Colorado is Jack Phillips himself, as well as his lawyer, Kristen Waggoner from Phoenix. Jack, let's start with you. Do you feel this is now a vendetta against your bakeshop? Apparently you are the only bakeshop in all of Colorado because all the focus is on you. But do you feel like this is now, you're being targeted?
JACK PHILLIPS, MASTERPIECE CAKESHOP OWNER: It feels like being targeted. The Colorado Civil Rights Commission is coming after me again after the United States Supreme Court has told them that they were hostile to my faith, and that they can't do that. And yet here we are again, the same situation.
INGRAHAM: So did a transgendered individual, she came to your bakeshop and said, will you bake a cake? And for a specific -- how did the transaction or potential transaction go down?
PHILLIPS: This was actually on the day last year that the United States Supreme Court announced that they were granting our case, and they were going to hear it. And so this Colorado attorney called my shop and asked us to make pink and blue cake signifying their gender transition.
INGRAHAM: Wait a second, wait a second. The Colorado attorney? We didn't even get a visit to the cakeshop, the bakeshop -- am I saying the wrong --
PHILLIPS: Right, cakeshop.
INGRAHAM: The transgendered person didn't walk in and say, hey, how're you doing Jack, could you make me -- it was a lawyer who called you?
PHILLIPS: It was a lawyer who called us.
INGRAHAM: That's ridiculous.
PHILLIPS: Even asked when we tried to explain that we could sell them anything else in our shop or create other customer work, they asked us to repeat it.
INGRAHAM: So they are creating the predicate for the action. Kristen, this is amazing. The court granted the case last year, he won a victory in the Supreme Court, and now this. So you guys are suing the civil rights commission, correct? And are you suing individual members as well?
KRISTEN WAGGONER, ATTORNEY FOR JACK PHILLIPS: Yes, we are suing the executive director. The Supreme Court made it abundantly clear that the commission was wrong to target Jack's beliefs, and that they treated other cake artists differently than Jack by allowing them to decline messages but refusing Jack that same freedom.
INGRAHAM: I am like, my breath is taken away by that. So now, how long will it take for you to get relief or not relief there, and is this going to go back to the Supreme Court? It seems like -- the goal here is to put jack out of business, right?
WAGGONER: It definitely is.
INGRAHAM: It is so unbearable to do his job, this is what he loves, the creative art, you serve gay and other couples freely in your shop. You make cakes for them. It's just particular weddings, or in this case, transgender transition, which you don't believe in, I'm sure millions of Americans probably agree with you.
PHILLIPS: There are a lot of cakes that we don't create. We'll do many -- we'll serve anybody who comes into the shop gladly. But there are many cakes that we don't create. Cakes that say anti-American or that would disparage or denigrate other people, including people who identify as LGBT. Those are cakes that we won't to create because the message that is cakes per tray, not because of the person who is ordering.
INGRAHAM: Kristin, the Supreme Court ruling didn't give you a clear ruling, however. It was not right in the nose, really quickly, your thought on that?
WAGGONER: It was right in the nose when it comes to the commission's hostility and its denigration of Jack's faith and its double standard in how it's treating cake designers that it likes. And in addition to that, Colorado took the position that if he wouldn't express that message to anyone, he didn't need to be compelled here. So they are going to lose.
INGRAHAM: We are going to follow this case. Thank you both for coming out tonight. We really appreciate it. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
INGRAHAM: Tomorrow night's show, we have an unbelievable lineup. We're going to talk to Rand Paul, special Thursday edition of "Friday Follies." Did you know that you can get macaroni straws to save the whales? Not kidding.
By the way, there is a blackout at Reagan Airport, at DCA tonight. Look at this. What? This happened last year, in Atlanta. Nice infrastructure of the United States has. Glad we spent $7 trillion in the Middle East and the Iraq War.
Guys that's all the time we have tonight, but we love hearing from you. Tweet me @IngrahamAngle.
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