Trump and Omarosa exchange barbs over bombshell book

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Trump and Omarosa exchange barbs over bombshell book

The feud between President Trump and Omarosa Manigault Newman escalates on Twitter and network television; reaction and analysis on 'The Five.'

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," August 14, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Kennedy, Juan Williams, Jesse Watters, and Tyrus. It's 5 o'clock in New York City, and this is "The Five."

The feud between President Trump and Omarosa turning into a no-holds-barred back and forth. The Trump campaign filing an arbitration action against the former White House aide alleging breach of a nondisclosure agreement. The president also taking aim at Omarosa on twitter writing, when you give a crazed, crying lowlife a break, and give her a job at the White House, I guess it just didn't work out. Good work by General Kelly for quickly firing that dog. Omarosa is responding with a new round of personal attacks against the president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OMAROSA MANIGAULT, FORMER WHITE HOUSE AIDE: It's interesting that he's trying to silence me. So what is he trying to hide? What is he afraid of? If he hadn't said anything that was derogatory or demeaning to the African- Americans and women, why would he go to this extent to try to shut me down?

UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: Should he be afraid of more tapes that you have in your possession?

MANIGAULT: I think he should be afraid of being exposed as a misogynist, a bigot, and a racist that he is.

UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're instructed, according to your book, to bring up the emails at every point you could at the end of the 2015 campaign, Hillary Clinton's emails.

MANIGAULT: Yes, that was our talker.

UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did Donald Trump know about those emails before they came out?

MANIGAULT: Absolutely. He is unfit to be in this office and to serve as the President of the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: And Press Secretary Sarah Sanders is rebutting Omarosa's claims. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARAH HUCKABEE SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I think the president is certainly voicing his frustration with the fact that this person has shown a complete lack of integrity, particularly by the actions following her time here at the White House.

UNINDENTIFIED MALE: Why does he hire her? Why did he hire somebody describing as a dog.

SANDERS: The president wanted to give her a chance, and he made clear when General Kelly came on and he voiced concerns that this individual didn't have the best interests of the White House and the president and the country at heart, the president said do what you can to get along. If you can't, he gave him full authority to carry out the decision to let her go. This has absolutely nothing to do with race and everything to do with the president calling out someone's lack of integrity. The idea that you would only point a few of the things that the president has said negative about people that are minorities, the fact is the president is an equal opportunity person that calls things like he sees it. He always fights fire with fire, and he certainly doesn't hold back on doing that across the board.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: So, what Sarah Sanders is talking about is a series of tweets where the president had used similar language. I think we have a few of them if we called them up. For example, Mitt Romney had his chance to be the failed president, but he choked like a dog. Now he calls me racist, but I am least racist person there is. Tweet number two, Robert Pattinson should not take back Kristen Stewart. She cheated on him like a dog and will do it again. Just watch. He can do much better. And tweet number three, little at MacMiller, I'm now going to teach you a big boy lessons about lawsuits and finance, you ungrateful dog. But then to advance the story just a little bit because this is what everyone is talking about, Omarosa makes a claim that the president was on tape saying the N-word. Now there's been back and forth of whether this ever existed. Take a listen to Sarah Sanders answering this question for a reporter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you stand at the podium and guarantee the American people they'll never hear Donald Trump utter the N-word on a recording in any context.

SANDERS: I can't guarantee anything. But I can tell you that the president addressed this question directly. I can tell you that I've never heard it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: OK. So here we are on day -- I guess, three of the Omarosa-Trump feud. It will end everybody. It will end. But for now, this is hot in the news and, so, Jesse, let me go to you about how everybody is handling this.

JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: Well, I think the media and Omarosa are perfect for each other. They both have very little credibility. They're both flip floppers. And they both hate President Trump. I don't trust anything she says. She's a serial fabricator. She should never have been hired for a job at the White House. She belongs in reality TV as a villain. He should never have hired the villain because, obviously, she's a huge backstabber.

Hours after she was fired, she gets on the phone and starts lying to her friends and former colleagues about why she was fired. She said she quit. And then hours after she's fired, she comes up with this tape where the president allegedly uses a racial slur. Out of the blue, the same day she was fired, she starts talking about the tapes that someone played her. When they asked the person who allegedly played the tape, he says I don't have the tape. I've never even heard about the tape. Then she says, oh, Frank Luntz has heard the tapes. Frank Luntz comes out says, I don't know what you're talking about, Omarosa. I've never heard a tape.

So, she has zero credibility at this point. Trump says he doesn't -- didn't say it. At this point, you have to take him at his word. Mark Burnett, the producer for The Apprentice allegedly told the president that there are no tapes that exist of him saying this word. Her history in the White House has been riddled with poor performance. Al Gore's office fired her for -- I think she was in charge of correspondence, and it turns out they found like 80,000 letters under her desk that she never even sent back. And then they transferred over to the Clinton team and commerce secretary office, and they had to get rid of her because she was an absolute personnel disaster.

This is not a racial thing to call someone a dog. The list goes on and on. He's called Glenn Beck a dog. Ted Cruz, David Gregory, Ariana Huffington. And I think Sarah Sanders said the right thing today when she was confronted about the racial issue. She said, in one and a half years, Donald Trump has created 700,000 jobs for African-Americans in this country. And in eight years, President Barack Obama had only created $195,000. I just let that speak for itself.

PERINO: Juan, I'll give you the next word then.

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Well, I just think that's pretty ridiculous. I mean, the fact is that what you see here is an economy that's been recovering. It's been steady recovering. Black community still has twice the unemployment of the white community. Is he taken any steps to deal with that? Let's get to the dog thing because I think this kind of top of the news today. This is so deeply offensive. I mean, it's one thing he's calling LeBron dumb. He goes after Don Lemon, is dumb. He goes after black women. I can think of Federico Wilson, Maxine Waters, Susan Rice, Donna Brazile, and now this thing.

I just thought -- I don't care of you race, but I just think to call a woman a dog in this way was so demeaning, so beneath the office of the presidency. I worry about just our kids. I mean, that you have to say, oh, that's the president. That's the way he talks about a woman that he disagrees with. On some level, I wonder why is he engaging? Why would the president engage with this person? But then you realize, oh, in some of these tapes, like, we thought these stuff about being fired in the White House situation room by John Kelly, who's going to believe that? But here comes the tape.

Then, with regard to the N-word, here comes, she says, people say, oh, no such tape. Then Katrina Pierson and others who were Trump aides say we never had such a conversation with Omarosa. Omarosa produces a tape. I'm thinking, wow. So maybe there's something to it. You say she has no credibility. I would agree with you. I would have agreed with you a long time ago, Jesse. But she keeps producing tapes that, in fact, back up her story

PERINO: Kennedy, is the president -- I guess, somewhat paying the price for trying -- for being loyal to her and he liked her, apparently, on The Apprentice. He liked her spunk. He liked that she was a villain. That she would maybe turn things up and get things done.

KENNEDY, GUEST CO-HOST: Yeah.

PERINO: I mean, sometimes you make a bad call.

KENNEDY: She's one of those unstable people that we all have known, whether it's in your work life or your family life. And these are the people who hold situations hostage. And they always find a way to get in there, especially to the most powerful person who can usurp any of their enemies around them and right the wrongs that have been done before them. And so, the president, obviously, is a loyal person. Look at some of the people that he's had on his campaign staff, and some of the people that he's hired in the White House, somewhat questionable, not all of them. Some of them are very good hires.

But, however, here, because it was only loyalty, that was the only connection that they've had because, you know, no one really knows what her area of expertise is. You know, we were all sitting around here before the show trying to figure out exactly what she did, regardless of her title. And when someone who is loyal feels betrayed, that's when you see the kind of reactions that the president is displaying. I do think it's a distraction. I think the story would go away. And I think he would actually come off more sympathetic if he didn't engage her to this level. But he feels like he has to push some of these fused to this level. And I think you'll see in the future instead of background checks in the White House they're going to give psych tests.

(LAUGHTER)

PERINO: What about the list that Jesse have of all the other people that the president has called a dog.

TYRUS, GUEST CO-HOST: (INAUDIBLE) I agree with Juan, 100 percent, in terms of the president should not be saying these things. It's really is beneath him. When it comes to Omarosa, one, I would point out, she proved me right, she is a unifier. She brought me and Brian Steller from CNN. You know he used my quote on the show on his thing. So she -- wow, oil and water. She brought us together. But here's the thing about her, she is a bad human being. Her race and gender is irrelevant. She's manipulative, evil, mean person. The things that she says -- and let's just say will give it to her. Let's say our president is mildly racist, and when he gets mad, he says stereotypical things. You, who claim to be the African- American watchdog for us in the White House, not only sites go down, you did nothing about it, and you profited from it. And it wasn't until your poor work got you fired. These our problems you try to profit again. She's not a dog. She's not any -- she's a palm, and that's way worse than anything else.

KENNEDY: She's also known him longer. I mean, she's the one who's know.

TYRUS: She could have stop this, horrible man, by telling the truth.

KENNEDY: Yeah, and throughout the campaign. I mean, she have known him the longest. So, conceivably if this was his true character, she's seen that character. She's been in the boardroom when the camera.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: I mean, do you remember in the campaign, and she'd be in the green room. She would be on -- not just on Fox, she'd be on other places, on other networks. And we were supposed to take her at her word and take her seriously, and have her on the show and to promote Donald Trump. And, you know now you do have to pay a price for this. I do want to ask you this, Jesse, there is something to be said about starving a story, right? Like ignore her. Consider her irrelevant. Just move on. And talk about all the good things going on. But, that the president -- one, he probably -- it's not in his nature to do that. He likes to counterpunch. But also, does he have some ability to discredit her further by being the one that's out there discrediting her?

WATTERS: Well, yesterday, we talked about whether or not he should completely ignore her the way he ignored Eminem. And I don't think the president is capable of ignoring things when it reaches this level. When you have Omarosa on CNN, and MSNBC, and even the Sunday shows, going out wall-to-wall like that, I think the president has to come back and has to come back hard. And when he.

PERINO: Like he did with fire and fury.

WATTERS: Yes, he will use the word dog, and he will tweet about five or six things, but at the same time, I don't know if the story helps this president. There's a lot of other good things going on. I believe Germany has now blocked $400 million going to Iran. There's great things happening in North Korea with the remains coming back from our soldiers. And all we're talking about is this hysterical woman who's humiliated herself in front of our eyes. And we're feeding this frenzy about a tape that no one even knows it exists and probably doesn't exist and no one can prove. So she's just throwing stuff out there and everyone.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: That's why she keeps coming up with tapes. That's the problem.

WATTERS: She's not coming up with any tape, Juan.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: She did. She came up with two tapes.

WATTERS: There're no tapes of him using that word, Juan.

WILLIAMS: I didn't say that. I don't know that. You don't know that.

WATTERS: Then produce it. She records everything. Why didn't she record when she heard that?

WILLIAMS: I don't know. But I'm telling you, she's come up with two tapes that people like you would say, oh, this can't exist, this couldn't have happened, and it did happened.

WATTERS: I've never said anything about what could or could not happen. I do know what happened, she's not credible.

WILLIAMS: Jesse, you know who's not credible? You know who lacks credibility?

WATTERS: Who's that?

WILLIAMS: President Trump.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: That's why people put him in office, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, yeah.

KENNEDY: But why is she all of a sudden credible?

WILLIAMS: She said she was fired three times, four times. You know who hired her four times?

WATTERS: Yeah.

WILLIAMS: Donald Trump.

WATTERS: Yeah, he hires only the best people.

(CROSSTALK)

TYRUS: We're all dumber for this conversation.

WILLIAMS: Absolutely.

TYRUS: We're arguing over something she wants. Regardless if there's a tape or not tape, she's a worse person if there is a tape.

WILLIAMS: Well, I don't think -- I don't doubt that. I'm just saying I don't give her any credibility, Tyrus. But isn't it interesting that all of us who doubt her keeps coming back -- oh, my god, she has a tape of this.

PERINO: All right. Coming up, a revealing new poll on how Americans really feel about the Russian investigation, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WATTERS: Wrap it up, already. That's what nearly two-thirds of Americans are saying about Special Counsel Robert Mueller's Russian investigation according to a new CNN poll. And this includes majorities across party lines, 72 percent of Republicans, 57 percent of Democrats, and 69 percent of independents. They're all saying Mueller ought to complete his investigation before voters head to the polls this November. All right, Tyrus, what do you think?

TYRUS: Well, before I get started, I guess, this is the last segment, Omarosa is a very heated subject and I kind of lost my cool a little bit. And I said if she did those things and knew about a tape, or knew he was that way, I called her a (INAUDIBLE). I apologize, America. I shouldn't have called her that. That was wrong of me. And I'm man enough to admit when I'm wrong.

WATTERS: All right. So according to this poll, everyone wants this through.

TYRUS: Right.

WATTERS: . really soon.

TYRUS: I don't.

WATTERS: You don't. You want this to drag on.

TYRUS: No, I want -- because we're looking at this the wrong way. This can also vindicate the president.

WATTERS: Do you think Mueller is going in this direction?

TYRUS: I think Mueller -- I have complete faith in Mueller to do a job where he's going to come out. And if President Trump is not guilty of obstruction, or collusion, or anything like that, he's going to say that. And there's going to be a lot -- they'll be a lot of explosions. And CNN and NBC, they're going to lose their minds about what to do. But he's going to do the right thing. It's not -- I know we hear the term witch hunt a lot, but I really believe that based on the investigation that's going to come out that there was a lot of -- and this is -- Omarosa is an example of that, that the president made some bad choices in terms of who was in his campaign, and they took advantage of his inexperience and not knowing who to trust him, who not to trust. They tried to make money. They probably didn't think he was really going to win. And they did all kinds of things behind the back door to be number one. So, I'm looking forward to Mueller to come out and say this happened, this happened, the people who did wrong are indicted, they're in court, and things are looking more like going toward stone than going towards Trumpsville. So, I can't wait for it.

WATTERS: OK. Well, we will see.

TYRUS: Look at positives, Jesse.

WATTERS: OK, I'm trying to. I'm just -- all indicators lead me to believe that it might be -- it's not as rosy as you would like to say. Look, time will tell. Dana, what do you think about the timing of this? If they drag this on and this, all of a sudden, we're getting into late September, and then we get into early October, and they still have not concluded this investigation, doesn't the president -- can he say, listen, you guys are now involving yourselves in electoral politics. And this is just what James Comey got hit for. What are you guys doing here?

PERINO: Well, actually, I pull this up because when Comey testified in front of Senator Chuck Grassley, Chuck Grassley asked him this, was the Clinton investigation named operation midyear because it needed to be finished before the DNC convention. If so, why the artificial deadline? If not, why was that the name? What he was basically saying is that putting an artificial deadline on an instigation is a bad idea. And so, you've never heard Mueller come out and say, I'm going to get this done by September 1st. You hear Rudy Giuliani say that. You've heard rumors about it. And even if they like to get it done -- do I think that Robert Mueller would love to drag this out because he's enjoying it so much, I doubt that.

I also think that in the CNN poll, not only do people think it should wrap up, I agree with that, but they also said -- 63 percent said they would -- that the investigation has some importance on their vote in the midterm. That doesn't mean that it's bad for President Trump. It might mean that for Republicans are thinking, hmm, we better get out there and make sure that the Democrats don't take over and drag this out even further. But, I don't think that tying it to our election -- tying our justice system to any election is a terrible idea.

WATTERS: I do agree with that. I guess, follow the facts where they lead. Juan, where is this investigation going in your opinion? Is this winding down? Is this heating up? Now they're looking at Roger Stone, allegedly. What do they have, do you think, if anything?

WILLIAMS: I don't know what they have because they don't leak, Jesse. But I do think this, the president's behavior makes me think that he knows they have something.

WATTERS: Why do you say that?

WILLIAMS: . because he's starting to lash out at people. He acts erratically, those tweets. Especially going after to the Attorney General Jeff Sessions, and the way that he has this week, makes -- suggests to me that he really feels as if something is coming. Something -- and he's trying to undermine the credibility not only of the FBI. By the way, Peter Strzok's go fund me page over $300,000.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: But he's not trying to undermine Jeff Sessions, Rod Rosenstein, and therefore, Robert Mueller in addition to the FBI and the CIA. Something big is coming.

WATTERS: Instead of having a guilty conscience, as Juan likes to think the president has, couldn't there be -- couldn't there be the thought there is no there-there, and there's this dark cloud hanging over the presidency and it's really hurting the ability of the commander-in-chief to move forward with his agenda.

KENNEDY: I think withholding information could be as damning as providing information. And that's what the American public wants. That's what independent want by 69 percent. And I think that's more important number to look at because everything is so hyper partisan right now. You look at independents they want this investigation to wrap up and for good reasons. They want to know, did something serious happened? If there's something terribly amiss, then perhaps we need a change in parties. Perhaps there need to be Democrats in the House of Representatives. And if nothing happened -- because I have this vision of Robert Mueller like a painter, just standing in front of the canvas going, oh, I'm an artist and you never really know when it's done, or just filing through people's steamer trunks looking for the smoking gun. And, you know, at this point, it feels like he's fumbling. And he's got this.

PERINO: Why? I'm just curious because I don't think that the Mueller team leaks. I would love it if they do.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: Why do we have the perception that they're going through people's steamer trunks and like fumbling around?

KENNEDY: Because I think we would see much more serious.

PERINO: Why?

(CROSSTALK)

KENNEDY: Because of the indictments we've already seen. I guess it's based on indictments we've already seen, and they have, in essence, been procedural. And, you know, you look at the Manafort trial, and somehow Paul Manafort, who was a really pretty disgusting businessperson, is now casting a sympathetic light because you're looking at the power of special counsel. And where it's being aim, and it's like -- is this really the purview of special counsel to find out if this guy has been, you know, squirreling away millions of dollars.

(CROSSTALK) PERINO: Manafort has been stealing from the American people.

WILLIAMS: Thank you. I think.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: You can't argue with that. So you have to say that that has nothing to do with the Trump campaign. Before we go, Juan, if there is no smoking gun, and as you slightly predicted that he comes out in a month or two and says you know what? No smoking gun here, no collusion, will you apologize to me?

(LAUGHTER)

WILLIAMS: Sure. I'm all for the truth, so I'd be delighted to.

WATTERS: All right.

WILLIAMS: I just don't think the odds are good. The American people saying, 55 percent say they are disappointed in the way Trump has been handling this investigation, 56 percent say Trump is lying about Russia, maybe you should think about protecting your own credibility, my friend.

WATTERS: Well, listen, if it goes the other way, I'll admit I was wrong, but I probably won't. The threat of terrorism is very much alive, two shocking stories, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: Welcome back. Two major stories putting the terrorism threat -- in focus. Outrage brewing after a judge set bail for five suspects in the New Mexico compound case despite prosecutors saying they were on a, quote, violent mission. The five people were arrested on child abuse charges and accuse of training children to carry out a school shootings. Meanwhile, terror fears gripping the United Kingdom once again, this time after a car plowed through a crowd outside parliament in London. It injured a number of pedestrians. Police are treating the incident as a terror attack after arresting a male suspect. The president reacting on twitter saying, quote, another terrorist attack in London, these animals are crazy and must be dealt with through toughness and strength. Kennedy, what we know about the London situation is that it was a Ford Fiesta, a man in his 20's arrested. We've got two people in the hospital. Nobody dead or.

KENNEDY: Thank God.

WILLIAMS: . seriously injured. But, nonetheless, again, you know, especially after what happened in Seattle earlier this week, I think it just makes people aware we've never quite put the terror threat to bed.

KENNEDY: No, we haven't. And I don't think anyone has really gotten a good handle on how to redirect the energy that jihadists have. And how these young men in their 20's are so suggestible and so programmable, and how incredibly dangerous it is to use religion as a justification for murder. And, you know, how to dehumanize groups of people.

And I think we have to do a better job as a society. You know, not only as politicians but also as parents and as citizens. How do we learn to value life a little bit more? And how do we extend that? So there's an option beyond, you know, people who were disenfranchised going in finding an imam or an imam finding them so they are completely reprogrammed. It's terrifying what the human psyche, a damaged human psyche is capable of.

WILLIAMS: You know, Jesse, it's interesting. In that New Mexico case, the FBI and the sheriff opposed bail for the lead suspect, but the judge granted this bail; and now is going to be out.

I mean, is it fair to just simply say that's some crazy judge? Or do you think, well, you know, the judge suggested that if this person wasn't Muslim, wasn't not-white, that we wouldn't even have an argument?

WATTERS: The judge has a track record of giving very low bail in some heinous cases. There's one case, she gave low bail and then the guy ended up going up and beating up a mother, beating up a baby and doing some horrific things.

And now we have a similar situation where people were abusing children, training them in firearms and to shoot up schools and to shoot up law enforcement. There was allegedly a dead body of a child found on the premises. It was buried.

Some of the children at the compound -- it was a cult compound, in my opinion. They were using the child's death as a way to say when the child is resurrected, he's going to come back as Jesus and then instruct these kids on how to maim and injure other children at schools.

So it was another individual who was the leader, apparently, was related to the guy involved in the '93 bombing at the World Trade Center. So to go out, and the judge says she didn't see a reason presented by prosecutors to think that these people would cause additional harm to the community. And I just think that's just so erroneous and such a misguided understanding of what these people are capable of.

I don't know how she can sleep at night. I really hope nothing else happens here.

WILLIAMS: So Dana, this is interesting in that, you know, we get into these political arguments, as Jesse just properly laid out. But then people said, "Wait a second." The Republican governor, Susana Martinez, appointed her, but she's also elected. She's a Democrat.

Should we have this overlay, or what is going on here with the politics of this?

PERINO: Well, I don't -- I don't think our justice system is wrong. I do think it's possible that this judge, she's -- as Jesse says, has a track record. He lays out a really good face for that. What I would imagine is that they are probably under surveillance right now and that they will not be able to do anything else.

When I think back to what Dan Coats said, I think it was at the beginning of this month or the end of July, in testimony in front of the Congress in which he said it feels like right before 9/11, right, that like that -- that period where you know that there's some chatter out there. You're not exactly sure how to connect the dots.

So I'm not saying that London or New Mexico, that those two things are connected in any way, but we -- the global war on terrorism is still very much underway.

KENNEDY: Can I just -- can I just add something really quickly here? I understand the judge said the prosecution didn't present enough facts, and they didn't present an actual serious threat. What about the child abuse? Never mind the guns. Never mind what the kids --

WATTERS: You can do this to children and then all of a sudden post such low bail.

KENNEDY: -- were saying. How can you starve children? That was Tyrus's point.

TYRUS: Yes. I thought that was the whole -- forget the fact that it was - - I believe it was his own child that had epilepsy that he starved, maimed, and eventually murdered in a religious -- this is what happens when ignorance and religion come together. It's a dangerous thing about education.

The other children were being starved and abused to build them, to make be terrorist soldiers. So how is this guy not held without remand? Or if you have a sense of humor when it comes to bail, like $1 billion. Like, there was no way. His intent was to commit a terrorist act on the United States.

WATTERS: Yes, and he traveled to Saudi Arabia.

TYRUS: And he was building his army.

PERINO: Would be really interesting to find out how many other people were arrested and not given bail or what their bail was set at on the same day.

WATTERS: Yes, Manafort is, you know, rotting away in solitary, and these guys are roaming free.

WILLIAMS: Well, the question is whether or not she viewed it simply as child abuse, and I think horrific child abuse --

TYRUS: Horrific. This was a child murder.

WILLIAMS: -- or terror. So apparently not.

KENNEDY: This is not a nonviolent offender.

PERINO: Right.

KENNEDY: Those are the kind of people for whom we have to reform the criminal justice system.

WILLIAMS: Yes. All right. Conservative women challenging Democratic socialist Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez to a debate. That's after she accused Ben Shapiro of catcalling. We've got that story next for you on "The Five."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KENNEDY: That's right. It's not a Tom Wolfe novel. "The Right Stuff."

Is this socialist too scared to debate? Conservative women now challenging New York congressional candidate and Democratic socialist Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez to a battle of ideas after she refused Ben Shapiro's $10,000 challenge and accused him of catcalling.

Listen to their proposal on "FOX & FRIENDS" earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her ideas do not make sense beyond on the paper. The utopian concepts that she preaches.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think she's scared to debate. I don't think she knows what she is really going to debate about. I think she's confused even.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She didn't deny Ben Shapiro's offer to debate based on sexism. She did it based on fear.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KENNEDY: She is scared. She's scared of the truth, Juan. Individualism Trumps state-ism every time. And I don't think she can defend her chosen philosophy.

WILLIAMS: Well, I think the key point here is she's not letting her opponents decide whether or not she should have to debate.

KENNEDY: What opponents? She hasn't gone on any unfriendly news outlets - -

WILLIAMS: No, that's not true.

KENNEDY: -- to really be challenged.

WILLIAMS: That's not true. She went on a PBS --

KENNEDY: "Frontline."

WILLIAMS: -- "Firing Line" [SIC]. "Firing Line," [SIC] right?

KENNEDY: With Margaret Hoover?

WILLIAMS: Yes.

KENNEDY: Who just said, "Clarify that." And she fell apart.

WILLIAMS: Yes, well, that's what I'm saying. You're saying she didn't go on any shows.

KENNEDY: Like a pot (ph) full of JELL-O.

WILLIAMS: She in fact, I think went. And, you know, so she's an inexperienced. She's 28 years old. She's never been in politics before.

KENNEDY: Poor thing.

WILLIAMS: And now you have conservatives who I think really want to hold her up, because they think they've got in her someone who represents the threat, that Democrats are all socialists. And after the poll that was taken recently, where you had most Democrats saying they're open to socialism, they said, "Oh, well, that means we're headed towards a terrible future."

I mean, even Maxine Waters, who is no centrist, said, no, that's not the future of the Democratic Party or the United States.

So I think Octavio-Cortez [ph] is right to say, "I'll decide who I want to debate and when I want to debate about what I want to debate."

KENNEDY: Well, how convenient. I mean, don't you think you should really be challenged in order to achieve some of that credibility that's grossly missing, as we saw from the top of the show in politics?

WATTERS: Yes, when you're challenged, you grow as a person; and she's not ready for that yet. She's not ready for prime time. She can barely handle the softballs, let alone any fastballs that some conservative commentator's going to throw at her.

But I actually agree with Juan, and I can't believe I'm saying this. She's not obligated to debate some random pundit on a cable news network. She has to face her actual opponent eventually, and she'll have to get ready for that.

You know, a lot of people are trying to get a little publicity off this woman, because she's a rising star; and they want to make a name for themselves. And that's fine.

She totally botched the challenge from Ben Shapiro when she made it about sexism when it's obviously not. But she's just not really ready for all of this. It would -- it's like when some guy that's much older would go out to the street and ask poor college kids --

PERINO: Yes.

KENNEDY: -- questions about politics. It's just not fair. It's just not fair.

KENNEDY: But Dana, in your book, "And the Good News Is," you had so many great pieces of advice, especially for women entering politics. What would you tell Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez about this moment in her political history and doing a little better job of presenting herself?

PERINO: Well I'd say you don't have to be in such a hurry. Right? So you could marinate a little longer. She can pick up the phone, and any respectable academic or politician. She could pick up the phone. Anybody will come and brief her. And what a great period.

She's going to win that race that she has, so she can sit back. She doesn't have to be doing all these interviews. There will be plenty of time for her to be the champion of the Democratic Party, if that's what they choose to do.

What I would love to see is -- I think it would be very instructive, actually, not to have a debate with her but to have a debate about socialism versus capitalism. We talked about this on the show yesterday.

But to have it done by a group like Intelligence Squared, that's an organization that puts on these great debates where the audience gets to vote right beforehand. Do you think socialism is better than capitalism? Vote now. And then you have the debate, and then you vote afterwards to see if you were persuaded in any way. That actually would be a useful thing.

TYRUS: Good idea.

KENNEDY: And you know what? Some good old-fashioned debates, the kind that we had in high school that don't necessarily require so much polemicism and so much hostility. Wouldn't that be nice to see?

TYRUS: That would be tremendous. And I think whoever is in her advisory, whoever is talking to her, they don't want her to get Sarah Palin-ed out in the middle of nowhere. She had that interview that didn't go very well.

KENNEDY: Which one? There were several.

PERINO: The first one.

TYRUS: It was bad, and she was exposed.

KENNEDY: That first one wasn't really like --

TYRUS: Her opponents were like, "Game on. Let's get her." Because they can -- she's very gettable.

KENNEDY: Right.

TYRUS: So right now, she should be really hitting the books, watching some tapes. Go back and look at what happened when Sarah Palin got exposed a little bit and everyone was coming after her. It got worse. She went from hockey mom to "What did she say?" Like, so she needs to -- don't take any interviews.

KENNEDY: "Lipstick on a pig."

TYRUS: And get the books, work on your craft and be ready.

PERINO: Well, the other thing that she could really -- if she wants to help the Democrats, the one thing that she did that most all these other candidates like her opponent, Joe Crowley, did not do, which is she knew exactly how to go out and get those by voter contacts. She knocked on all the doors; she walked all the streets. Went to every street fair. That kind of work is actually what can win elections, not going out and getting media attention.

KENNEDY: Lesser-known candidates in many parties, not just Republicans and Democrats, are learning that very lesson to great success. Well said. Back to basics.

Well, have you ever Wondered why you're feeling so stressed out while you're on vacation? A new study has the answer, and we will reveal it just for you next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GREG GUTFELD, HOST, "THE GREG GUTFELD SHOW": What are your thoughts on the media and how it's going so far?

TYRUS: You know what, man? I didn't study. Hold on.

(PULLS OUT GUTFELD'S BOOK, "THE GUTFELD MONOLOGUES")

TYRUS: Where are we now? I'm sorry. Excuse me. It's good. Yes, check it out.

It's getting to that part of the fight where the corner is telling him, "Do you guys want to go out there? I'll call it, baby. I'll throw the towel."

"Don't cut me, Mick. I've got one more in me."

Like, this is really the media has come down to. "We're going to do more coverage."

GUTFELD: Yes.

TYRUS: "We've got to do more."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TYRUS: Hey, that was yours truly on "The Greg Gutfeld Show" this past Saturday. I'm filling in for Greg while he's out plugging his book, like I shamelessly just did.

I never really have the time for days off, because I'm always too busy working. But it doesn't matter, because it turns out even when you're on vacation, you still aren't relaxing. A new study says our constant connection to work and culture can be detrimental during our vacations.

KENNEDY: Here we go.

PERINO: So you don't take time off?

TYRUS: No, I don't. But I make time. I'm a big-time maker. I set rules. Like, I turn -- I turn my phone off at 7 p.m. If you don't catch me by then, forget it.

And if I'm on an island, I can't help you anyway, because I'm on an island. So I leave my phone in the hotel room. But we're all workaholics. We wouldn't be here if we didn't work hard.

KENNEDY: That's true.

TYRUS: Kennedy, how do you prepare for some "me" time with the kids and then not worry about the show or anything anything.

KENNEDY: We're going to Hawaii in, like, a week and a half. My girls are so excited they're already packed.

PERINO: Aww.

KENNEDY: So the one time of year they actually --

PERINO: I remember those years.

KENNEDY: Yes. So it's "the flowery pants."

What you do is, you've got to stay off social media if you're also going to stay away from work.

TYRUS: Right.

KENNEDY: Because if your boss is emailing you, and they're also checking you out on Instagram and Twitter, and they're like, "Wait a second. You've been posting memes of your trip and pictures of your food for the last seven hours. I emailed you two and a half hours ago. I want a response."

TYRUS: I need that stat, you know.

KENNEDY: So if you're going to disconnect, you have to completely disconnect. And one of the great things it said in the article was mindfulness. You have to be present wherever you are, and if your vacation goes in fits and starts, wherever the starts are, that's where you have to be and keep your mind out of work and just be in the moment.

TYRUS: Juan, you were on vacation. How much work did you do?

WILLIAMS: Well, I ended up having to do some work, because I wrote a column. But I tell you what. It's interesting to me about this, is the number of Americans who don't take vacations. And I was surprised at this, but they're -- it's part of your compensation. It's part of your pay. But there are more and more people who don't take vacations, because they worry about getting fired or getting in trouble, somebody stabbing them in their back at work.

TYRUS: Or you just really can't afford it.

WILLIAMS: Or can't afford it. That's the other part. The income inequality. Some people can't afford to get away.

But to me, if you can afford -- and I'm blessed enough to be able to afford. It's still hard to disconnect because people do have this expectation that if I want to talk to Juan, I should be able to. And it's rude of him, and somehow he's negligent if he's not returning my call.

TYRUS: Jesse, you are, like, a no-nonsense guy in your time. Do you shut it down?

WATTERS: Yes, when I'm on vacation, and I just was, I only look at the ratings. And if the ratings go up when I'm not there, I tell myself that's a fluke. And then if the ratings go down when I'm not there, I tell myself that's because I wasn't there.

TYRUS: Very Greg Gutfeld of you.

WATTERS: That's how I feel about it.

TYRUS: Dana, bring us home and tell us -- I know you've got a budget.

PERINO: I have two suggestions. Of course, you know I'm full of advice. One, one thing to do if you want time off but you are worried that maybe your boss will get a hold of you, give your boss or your manager, whoever your significant other's phone number and say, "If you need to get a hold of me, here's the number to call." They'll be reluctant to call. They'll think twice about it, but if they really need to get a hold of you, they will do it.

TYRUS: Brilliant.

PERINO: The other thing is, do not be the boss that sends nonsense emails or emails that make people worry while they're on vacation. Like "hoping we can get together when you get back next week. We got the numbers in today. Looking forward to seeing you back here."

Those kinds of emails, I know somebody who just got one a couple of weeks ago from their boss after having this big conversation about how everybody should take time off and recuperate.

TYRUS: Sweet. "One More Thing" is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: It's time now for "One More Thing" -- Jesse.

WATTERS: All right, summer is here, and people like to JetSki in the summer. But be warned. They could get a little dicey. Check out this action in Estonia. Oh!

PERINO: Whoa.

WATTERS: The JetSki just blew him off into the water. Take a look at it again, everybody. Though he's just pulling out of the little slit there. And boom!

PERINO: Wow.

WATTERS: Exploding JetSki, everybody. Be careful out there, especially in Estonia. Not terror-related, by the way.

And he's OK.

WILLIAMS: He's OK. That's --

PERINO: You always have the ones that give me a heart attack.

TYRUS: You did good, though.

PERINO: I have a very special "One More Thing" that's a follow-up to Friday's. Last week we talked to you about Clara Edwards and her frantic search to find a Garfield-type cat to have a lasagna dinner with her daughters, who just love Garfield.

And today, I'm happy to share the successful dinner. Their Garfield arrived Saturday night, and he hid under the couch for a little bit, but then he had a good time playing with 4-year-old Madison and 2-year-old Harper. They had a Wonderful lasagna dinner, with Madison and Harper having actual lasagna. Garfield ate cat lasagna that they made, which was a mix of dry and wet cat food.

Clara said it's a special day for the girls, that she and her husband tried to do nice feats like this for their girls. Very cute.

WATTERS: Meow.

KENNEDY: I like their skinny Garfield.

PERINO: I know. The casting needed a little work. But you know, in a pinch. Maybe Garfield went on a diet.

Juan.

WILLIAMS: So as you know, I was away last week, yes, I went to the beach, the Outer Banks of North Carolina. I had time with my grandkids. Here we are heading out towards Cape Hatteras.

But of course, lots of time eating. Here are Eli and Pepper at the Dunes for breakfast. And here are Pepper and Wesley grabbing cones at Scammell's Ice Cream Parlor.

And there was also shopping, for the ladies. As you can see, the girls bought cat tails for themselves. And we had a newcomer join us. My daughter Rae brought her pet parrot.

PERINO: Oh, my.

WILLIAMS: Vacations are supposed to be restful but, you know, sometimes you can tire your little self out. You just get tired.

By the way, lots of Fox FIVE fans. Linda stopped me on the beach and says she never, ever misses a show.

PERINO: Well, thank you, Linda.

Kennedy.

KENNEDY: Well, Aretha Franklin is an incredible singer. She was born in Memphis, Tennessee, March 25. She shares a birthday with my niece and nephew. And unfortunately, she is gravely ill at home. She has been fighting cancer, according to multiple sources.

And she is now comfortably at home in hospice. She has been visited by the likes of Stevie Wonder and Jesse Jackson.

But this woman has such an incredibly powerful voice. She has sung at the inauguration of four different presidents. She has won 18 Grammys including ten for best R&B vocal performance. Her voice, her pitch, her power all on display throughout her beautiful life. This incredible legend deserves all of our thoughts and prayers and gratitude for the inspiration she has given millions and millions and billions of people around the world. So we are thinking of you, Aretha.

PERINO: Indeed. And generations to come will be entertained by her work.

Tyrus.

TYRUS: I had a really incredible moment on my flight coming in. I got a chance to, I had a special passenger on my plane. It was one of the fallen soldiers coming home from Korea. And I was able to capture it. This is my junior photography reporter stuff, and it was a really powerful moment for me. And there was his family waiting for him.

And I just really -- we need to remember what this is all about, what we're fighting and are viewing.

PERINO: Yes.

TYRUS: It was really a special moment to be a part of it that. And I wish we had more of that instead of all the arguing and stuff on TV.

PERINO: Indeed. All right. Set your --

TYRUS: One more thing --

PERINO: Sorry, Tyrus. I've got to go.

TYRUS: Sorry.

PERINO: Bret Baier. Sorry. I had a great rhyme, but I'll save it for next time. "Special Report" up next.

Hey, Bret.

BAIER: Thank you, Dana. This is a Fox News alert.

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